MANCHESTER - 7

[Stellas]

AA International 757s being refurbished at present, interiors look a lot better than the shed BA used to JFK, especially AA Biz class, new lavs etc, BA let the service go to ruin with crap aircraft, no surprise it was pulled!

[AircraftOperations]

NOTAM for MAN shows 23R ILS u/s until end of October now.
Believe they suffered some delays and diverts on Wednesday due to low cloud, according to a friend who was flying in for the football.

[viscount702]

Danube Wings now showing
MAN-BTS days 2 4 Dep 1900
BTS-MAN days 3 5 Arr 1420
MAN-TAT days 3 5 Dep 1500
TAT-MAN days 2 4 Arr 1800
No A/C given but operated by VIP Wings starting December

[TartinTon]

Looks like baby have pulled MANAGP and MANALC routes from winter. Nothing available to book on the website for winter or next summer this morning.

Beginning of the end for them at MAN?

[Ian Brooks]

Like most spanish destinations they are in free fall due cost of going to Spain.
couple of people i work with have just come back from spain and resorts are dead, the
villa market is very ill so all in all the Spanish market is suffering big time and
will do for the britsh market until the pound against the euro improves


Ian B

[viscount702]

They also removed Grenoble from all bases recently as well.

More to the point have you seen the ZB reductions as showing on the latest timetable

For summer 2010 those destinations which had more than one rotation a day ie ALC AGP FAO TFS etc are all back to just one.

[compton3bravo]

It is not that bad Ian, I live here now. The villa market where I am between Puerto Banus and Sotogrande is not doing that badly and if you can manage to get out here the bars and restaurants are doing some fantastic deals away from the ´hot spots´. Don´t know about Fuengerola etc, us ´locals´ tend to shy away from those places.

[aidoair]

Agree there. I think there has been a lot of exageration over the price difference. Ok it has not been as cheap to us Brits in Europe over the past year or so as it can be with the exchange rates, but having been to both Spain and many other parts of Europe this year, it's not as if they have severely raised there prices. Infact on my recent holiday, the prices for food and drink in Majorca worked out just the same or if not better as if you were in most places of the UK. Infact in the many years of visiting the island, it was the busiest I have ever seen it and lots of the bars owners were saying how suprised they have been as they were expecting a very quiet summer. Some even were relucntant to open up at the begining of the season but glad they did...!

As for baby now not operating to AGP and ALC over the winter, even at the reduced schedule, i am shocked. They can usually get good loads even at the quietist times of the year, especially on the AGP. Hopefully it is down to a change of plan with aircraft maintence schedules or lease agreements and that they come back in full form for the summer season. Baby not so long ago had big plans for MAN even with-in the current climate they were happy with the base.

[Dairyground]

For years, until quite recently, flights heading for 23R mostly passed more or less directly along/over the Merseyway precinct in Stockport. However for the past few weeks most seem to fly 100 yards or more to the right, somewhere beyond the motorway.

Is this offset a side effect of the ILS replacement, or is there another cause, or am I just imagining things?

[RoyHudd]

VOR/DME approach, offset 5 degrees, ILS 23R being replaced. All in the NOTAMs. Many users find the offset approach a pain in the posterior in poor or windy wx, myself included. ILS should be back soon, and we'll all happily fly over the Stockport precinct!

[viscount702]

23R ILS now US until end of October re NOTAM

[TSR2]

Recently returned from Murcia. 204 pax outbound and 215 inbound which are good loads for a B757.

Where everyone went I'm not so sure but all the places we visited were very quiet, not many people about at all. The restaurants were pretty quiet and for every villa occupied I would estimate at least eight unoccupied at the place we stayed.

[Musket90]

The Notam expiry date for the u/s 23R ILS is not a firm date. It may be back earlier in which case the Notam will be amended.

[TartinTon]

"More to the point have you seen the ZB reductions as showing on the latest timetable

For summer 2010 those destinations which had more than one rotation a day ie ALC AGP FAO TFS etc are all back to just one. "

Not sure what you're looking at viscount702. Programme looks almost identical to this year with double dailies 4/5 days a week ALC/AGP/FAO and doubles on Tues/Fri for TFS? No sign of a reduction there :=:=:=

[Ametyst2]

VLM are discontinuing the Twice Daily Manchester to Antwerp route from 7th October. The Rotterdam flight continues

[TSR2]

More to the point have you seen the ZB reductions as showing on the latest timetable

For summer 2010 those destinations which had more than one rotation a day ie ALC AGP FAO TFS etc are all back to just one.

It would appear that way when you view the 'Timetable' section of the Monarch wesite. However, when you select a flight you will see there is more than one flight per day.

FAO for example is double daily except for single daily on Tuesday only.

[viscount702]

When I checked earlier this week the "second" flights were not showing either in the booking engine or the timetable.

The second flights are now showing again in the booking engine but they are still not showing on the timetable.

The same was happening for the LGW flights I checked.

I know some of the airline timetables are not the most accurate but in the case of ZB these second flights were showing a while back in both the booking engine and timetable but when they disappear from both you can draw your own conclusion.

[stockportmatt]

For years, until quite recently, flights heading for 23R mostly passed more or less directly along/over the Merseyway precinct in Stockport. However for the past few weeks most seem to fly 100 yards or more to the right, somewhere beyond the motorway.

Is this offset a side effect of the ILS replacement, or is there another cause, or am I just imagining things?


Thanks for posting this and the replies to it - I wondered why the aircraft seemed to now be flying directly over our house in Stockport, we noticed the considerable noise increased and thought we were imagining this. I'm glad that this will not be permanent!
Matt

[Mr R Sole]

More offerings to Libya are apparently on the cards from Manchester.

Nayzak (http://www.nayzak.ly/) are to start 3 times a week Tripoli to Manchester using a 737-400. Slots and the relevant approvals are all in place according to their newly appointed GSA in Manchester. November/December is the proposed start date.

Libyan Airlines are tipped to increase to a daily schedule over the Winter/Spring from their 5 flights per week that they currently offer.

[MUFC_fan]

When I read the first half I thought it would mean Libyan pulling out and then the other company going bust leaving no-one al la Poland routes.

Now I just think the new airline will go bust.

[BHX5DME]

FUTURE PLANNED INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS
FLIGHTS
SECTOR
4
TRIPOLI-JEDDAH-TRIPOLI
3
BENGHAZI-JEDDAH- BENGHAZI
2
TRIPOLI-DAMASCUS-TRIPOLI
2
BENGHAZI- DAMASCUS - BENGHAZI
2
TRIPOLI- KHARTOUM -TRIPOLI
2
BENGHAZI- KHARTOUM - BENGHAZI
2
TRIPOLI-ALEXANDARIA-TRIPOLI
2
BENGHAZI- ALEXANDARIA - BENGHAZI
2
TRIPOLI- ISTANBUL -TRIPOLI
2
BENGHAZI-ISTANBUL- BENGHAZI
2
TRIPOLI- BIRMINGHAM -TRIPOLI

[Mr R Sole]

It seems as if for the time being at least, they have postponed their plans for BHX and are going to focus on MAN.

As for them going bust - well I would not be so sure. Nayzak have given Libyan Airlines a run for their money on their home turf and I am sure they will do so when playing 'away' too! There is a significant Libyan community in the North West along with a small number of 'ex-pat' Brits who work in Libya who use the route too. Some of the Manchester - Tripoli flights over the summer have been overbooked! :eek: At peak times, demand is greater than supply.

Libyan Airlines is owned by the government so load factors, yields and profits are far less important than they would be for a private airline such as Nayzak, who I am sure would be more dynamic with marketing, incentive fares etc.

It will be interesting to see if anything does indeed happen.

[MANAGP]

All very good but when is MAN going to have a proper runway when wet, and an ILS that works?

[Ian Brooks]

By the end of the month the new ILS will be fitted on 23R and next year the runway
is being resurfaced over the summer so expect a lot of 23L landings at quieter periods of the day

Ian B

[simonchowder]

Any truth in the story that monarch will be operating from Manchester T2 next year?

[MUFC_fan]

If MAG had their way, then it would have been done this summer but I think ZB/MON has held out as long as it possibly can.

I would predict the carrier would be in T2 next summer, maybe moving as early as late winter season to ease in the transfer.

TCX to follow?

[simonchowder]

Thanks , i take it this is something monarch dont want so why are MAG imposing it on them? as one of Manchesters biggest operators i would have thought they would have carried some clout

[MUFC_fan]

MAG's plan is to get, as close as possible (ZB/MON is both charter and scheduled, VS etc.) this plan:

T1 - Scheduled carriers (EK, QR, US etc.)
T2 - Charter/scheduled (TOM, MON/ZB, VS etc.)
T3 - Low cost (U2, BE, FR etc.)

I think this plan will not happen as black and white as above as there are a number of carriers who I think will need A LOT of pushing to move inc. BA, LH, EI etc. I think the BA situation will be the most interesting situation, thinking back 10-15 years where it was basically 'BA's Terminal.'

[simonchowder]

Thanks again, as i recall from my last vist to Manchester all of monarchs ops/ crewing etc are based over the other side i assume they will have to relocate, BTW are monarchs engineers not based in T2? i seem to think they were although i could well be mistaken

[MANAGP]

Ian B

And is an ILS being fitted to 23L?

I wonder how much fuel is being burned/co2 created by all these NP approaches at MAN?

[Ian Brooks]

Think one of the ops or atc guys can answer that

Ian B

[partyboy_uk]

Rumour has it, portakabins will be set up for crews somewhere over near the Monarch hanger and they will be bussed to the aircraft. The main offices though will be at the train station building... just what I've heard.

I believe Monarch weren't too happy about the possibility of them being on a remote stand a lot of the time. However, they, like a lot of other airlines at the moment, are looking to lower their cost base and so I do wonder if MAG offered some kind of financial incentives in whatever deal was struck.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

I think the plan is for an ILS to be fitted to 23L, but just not sure whether this will be in time for the planned 23R resurface.

It has been interesting to watch the various headings and altitudes that the 23R landers have been using in the last month. I realise that a VOR approach really is a non-precision approach now! Although I guess some operators have taken visual approaches when conditions have allowed. Was interesting to see an IB A340 on the approach this afternoon... presuming it was a med or tech divert. The approach seemed to be one of the "steadier" ones, compared to various other aircraft.

[Ringwayman]

IB is going into Air Livery apparently. Wonder which airlines have signed contracts with them.

[Ian Brooks]

Iberia is in for a spruce up at Air Livery, they seem to be keeping quite busyhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

Ian

[mantug01]

Yes the Monarch Engineers are based on T2 and have been for as far back as i can remember.

It will be nice for Monarch on T2 in the afternoons as its normally just tumbleweed over there.

[1station]

VLM ANR continues, flight numbers are the only thing to change due to the City Jet takeover of VLM :ok:

[Ametyst2]

The Manchester to Antwerp service is not bookable on any of the CRS Systems such as Amadeus and does not show as bookable on the VLM or CityJet web-sites.

[roverman]

Alpha Whiskey Romeo,

There is no plan for an ILS on 23L in the foreseeable. There is an intention to introduce a P-RNAV (or BARO-VNAV) approach procedure to replace/supplement the VOR/DME.

[Betablockeruk]

Wonder which airlines have signed contracts with them

Lots! :ok:

Air Livery Plc - Quality First in Aircraft Refinishing (http://www.airlivery.com/gallery_commercial.shtml)

[Beavis and Butthead]

Can't see the point in any upgrade to the approach aids to 23L when the taxiway system is so poor. From a pilots point of view, i'd much rather have a parallel taxiway on 23L with the current VOR approach than a fancy new ILS that sees you stuck down at the loop whilst the two aircraft behind you land.

[1station]

Just tried to book for 6 December and all seems well :ok:

[Ringwayman]

4 new Jet2 routes: Dubrovnik (2 weekly), Split (2 weekly), Reus (2 weekly) and Prague (4 weekly). These are the highest ferquencies on the routes. Perhaps another aircraft to be based, and therefore more routes to be announced?

[MANAGP]

B&B I understand your point, they are crap! But at the moment so are the approach aids and the runway for that matter!

Come on MAPLC get your act together!

[Ian Brooks]

New ILS isn`t just plug in and go though unfortunately, once fitted which is somethime after 16th Oct if I remember rightly there will be 300 hours of unbroken service on CAT1 before CAT3 can be used.

Ian B

[AircraftOperations]

I thought I read on here that a flight calibration aircraft had been flying the new 23R ILS several weeks ago. Have they had problems, or had to re-install?

[ericlday]

Similar scenario at LTN, new ILS on 26 but only Cat1 ops until 16/10.

[viscount702]

As report earlier although 23R should have been back to CATI late September and CATIII by mid October all being well but there is now a NOTAM saying it is US and maybe until the end of October. Obviously something seems to have gone wrong and therefore I believe there is currently no ILS on 23R and no idea when there will be.

No doubt someone in the know can confirm what the position is at the moment.

[viscount702]

Further to my earlier post the MAG website is now saying CATI by mid October and CATIII by end of October all being well

[TURIN]

Heard a buzz the other day about something significant going on at the end of the month. (26th?). I have my own private opinion as what it may be but I'll keep schtum for now.

Anyone else heard anything?

[ZOOKER]

Surely this should have all been done during the 'summer', so the new 23R ILS was available when it is required,
i.e. NOW!!

[rapidman47]

Heard a buzz the other day about something significant going on at the end of the month. (26th?). I have my own private opinion as what it may be but I'll keep schtum for now.

Anyone else heard anything?Easy pulling the plug:(:D

[conti onepass]

i cant see easyjet leaving manchester mate!!!

[pwalhx]

conti - rapidman is a wind up merchant who obviously has issues with manchester so I wouldnt pay too much head to that comment about easy

[A330ETOPS]

Not so long ago i was reading that they were looking to introduce more airlines and routes from the Far East. Anything on the horizon yet?

[Ian Brooks]

A330ETOPS Might be worth asking that question again about 6 months
when we know that we are coming out of the recession. I hope that there are some new routes in the pipeline http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


Ian B

[BHX5DME]

September 2009

Pax - 1,963,477 down 9.41%
Movements - 16,172 down 14.87%
Freight - 8,698 down 17.88%

12 months ending 30.09.09

Pax - 19,359,005 down 11.52%
Movements - 179,163 down 15.27%
Freight - 105,741 down 32.88%

[Ringwayman]

Bit more interesting to look at the breakdown rather than the overall picture.

9.43% fewer scheduled international movements but only a 5.29% fall in scheduled international pax numbers

23% fewer domestic movments yet only a 8.8% fall in pax numbers.

Charter pax and movement falls virtually match each other with 13% falls

In term of purely MAN originating pax, it's down 8.8%

Can we gain encouragement that it seems scheduled routes are having better loads (and hopefully with less capacity to fill, better yield)?

[horatio_b]

You will get a better idea of that with the next set of figures which will exclude the discontinued Ryanair flights - these would have had high load factors (but very low yield)

[rapidman47]

conti - rapidman is a wind up merchant who obviously has issues with manchester so I wouldnt pay too much head to that comment about easyI dont have a prob with Manchester airport, I use it myself some times. Its some of the posters on here who think out side London only Ringway exists.
About Eazy I know they are not happy with their operation at Manc they want lower landing fees for one thats why there has been very little expansion:(

[Ringwayman]

Very little expansion? I reckon they are about on par for what they stated they were going to be doing. What did you expect of them?

[MUFC_fan]

About Eazy I know they are not happy with their operation at Manc they want lower landing fees for one thats why there has been very little expansion

If U2 weren't happy with the charges - would they have not done what they have done at Luton and Stansted? Everyone wants cheaper charges - look at Ryanair - it's their policy to get their costs to zero. Business is business and I doubt U2 are unhappy, as ringwayman says, they are pretty much in line with original commitments when considering the recession etc.

[pwalhx]

I am sorry rapidman but your posts betray a different point of view IMHO. Once again you post a provacative comment that appears at odds with the general consensus, perhaps you could enlighten to us with this inside knowledge.

Also when can we expect the exciting new announcements you keep promising for John Lennon.

[rapidman47]

You will soon see I am right on both counts, so lets wait and see who is right shall we
from 47 at Easy opps

[Bank Street]

Any truth in the rumour that Delta have done a u-turn on their decision to pull the JFK route?

[tb10er]

Don't know about a U-turn, but you can book MAN-JFK in Jine 2010 with them

[groundedforgood]

It's not a direct flight as far as I can see, it goes via Amsterdam on a code-share in June. Only know because I fancied the trip but not with a stop.

[OltonPete]

Same answer for me on several dates in June and July all via Amsterdam.

Not a good sign as it was definitely bookable direct a few weeks ago for
the period June 10 - August 10.

Pete

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Dont know what you are all doing, but im able to book the 154/155 on various dates, including june 3rd, july 14th, september 5th (just the random days i tried) and all routes are comming up and direct?

[Centre cities]

I agree it comes up direct for me in July and Aug.


Centre cities

[OltonPete]

Just gone on the laptop and direct flights came up starightaway
about five minutes ago - entered exactly the same data but
slightly different dates but all June and July.

All very odd.

Pete

[zfw]

"Heard a buzz the other day about something significant going on at the end of the month. (26th?). I have my own private opinion as what it may be but I'll keep schtum for now.

Anyone else heard anything?"

Could be............

Lufthansa twice weekly MD11F eff.29Oct, Thursdays JFK-MAN-FRA 1920/2050z and Sunday DFW-MAN-JFK 1955/2125z.

Or

Nayzak Air Transport – M4590/1 new three per week Benghazi, Libya (BEN) service eff.09Nov Mon, Wed and Fri lunchtime with B737-400

Or even

Danube Wings (VIPwings) – Slovak operator with prefix V5 will operate twice weekly BTS and TAT (Tatry-Poprad, Slovakia) eff 01Dec with B737-400

And Pia going back to the A310

zfw

[Navpi]

For what its worth there is quite an interesting article on the Liverpool Manchester debate in this months Airports magazine !

[MUFC_fan]

Is it true that Etihad will be popping in with their A346 more often than not this winter on scheduled services as said on another forum?

Something to do with Man City owners...

[Betablockeruk]

This?


United Emirates National Team v MCFC

Departing Manchester on 10th November 2009, returning on the 14th November 2009


Offering Business and Economy packages.


Not seen anything definite about A346. Rumours that the above will be A346 and/or EY15/16 becomes A346 every flight and/or F1 A346 into Air Livery for repaint.

[Excelsbest]

Biman Bangladesh resume JFK-MAN-DAC service on 27th October 2009 with 4 x Weekly 772's.

[RoyHudd]

That will be fun for the cleaning staff. Allegedly nearly as grim a job as dealing with PK. Can't say the average Brit holidaymaker is that much tidier though!

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

could this be the 'something significant around 26th of this month'?

will be good to see them back again. Also 4 weekly is correct, but it will be 2 flights towards JFK and 2 flights towards DAC.

Now manchester has 5 operators comming from JFK, being Delta, American, Pakistan airlines, Biman and Lufthansa cargo

[TURIN]

could this be the 'something significant around 26th of this month'?


It wasn't what I had in mind but it's good news if true. Who has the handling/maintenance contracts?

[TURIN]

What kind of final did the Vulcan do on Sunday as I was looking out for it with my kids and didn't see it. I live about 6 or 7 miles out on the 23R approach

This should give you an idea.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U-cuqbbx_QI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U-cuqbbx_QI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Sorry about the camera shake at the start and finish I was using full zoom at the time. It's a bit better in the middle.

[ManofMan]

Biman Bangladesh resume JFK-MAN-DAC service on 27th October 2009 with 4 x Weekly 772's.

Anyone else spot the problem with this....like they dont have any 777's ????

[J31 MAN]

I believe they are taking ex SIA 777's on lease.

[AndyH52]

Re: Biman - 27th October is only two weeks away yet neither MAN or JFK show up as destinations on the Biman website...are there any published sources to confirm this news?

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

MAN carried over 43000 on EK so far this year, nearly 10000 more than BHX and only 5000 less than LGW's 3 daily service.

surely its now time to get an A380 or at least a 3rd daily going?

[Invicta DC4]

Doubt if you will see any EK A380s soon on a regular basis as their 2 class A380s are on "ice" according to last week's Flight International. Although they are considering taking them off "ice", the deliveries in the near future will be 3 class and I don't think anywhere in the UK outside London will see a 3 class service.

[conti onepass]

not being thick, but is that 43000 over ten months, thats only 4000 per month, not alot for 2 777 300s. or am i missing something here.

[TSR2]

43,804 passengers in September from Manchester.

[TURIN]

surely its now time to get an A380 or at least a 3rd daily going?

3rd daily is a dead duck.

As for a 380? Mmmmmmmm;)

[Betablockeruk]

Re: Biman - 27th October is only two weeks away yet neither MAN or JFK show up as destinations on the Biman website...are there any published sources to confirm this news?

Not just yet... Biman planes lease scam alleged, minister agrees :: Bangladesh :: bdnews24.com :: (http://bdnews24.com/details.php?id=144889&cid=2)

Problems with the lease.

[MUFC_fan]

Airliner world:

"In addition to London Heathrow, Royal Brunei Airlines would like to fly up to four times per week to Manchester...However, the proposed increase in services in this level would have a knock on effect on the number of hotel rooms available in the Sultante, so it is doubtful that there would be any increases in the frequency to the UK, at least in the near future."

Anyone fancy opening a hotel in Bruneu?!:}:ok:

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

I believe MAN allows landings on RWY(s) 23 with up to a 3 knot tailwind.
With low cloud base/poor visibility and an unserviceable ILS on 23R for the time being, do ATC switch arrivals to 05 if it means that ILS landings are possible - in order to accept as many landing aircraft as possible?

Would the tailwind limits ever be altered at an airport (if the aircraft's crew could accept the landing) in such a situation?

(I realise that the current high pressure means that winds are very light anyway.)

[chiglet]

I believe MAN allows landings on RWY(s) 23 with up to a 3 knot tailwind

Almost correct. The "Tailwind Component" is 5 kts. Eg, you can have a wind of 050/05 and be ok. you can also have a wind of [say] 090/10kts I haven't got the graph in front of me, so that figure may be a little "out".

[brian70]

Quote:
43,804 passengers in September from Manchester

Is it just me or is that figure slightly wrong, it works out at over 700 pax per flight. I don't think EK can get that on an A380 so there's no chance on their 777's.

[TSR2]

Don't forget the passenger numbers are outbound and return.

[MAN OPS]

I have been in contact with the UK Director of Biman who confirmed that the airline will return to MAN 4 times a week transit flights DAC/JFK.

Although they have applied for slots from 27th Oct. He did say that it will more likely be a few weeks after this.

He also mentioned as when they operated before at MAN that there may be some delays when the service is operating.

[TURIN]

From the BIMAN website.

In order to replace the aging aircraft and mordernize the fleet with new generation aircraft, Biman has signed agreements with aircraft manufacturer The Boeing Company on 22 April 2008 and 30 May 2008 for purchase of 04 new 777-300ER to be delivered in 2013, 04 new 787-8 to be delivered in 2019/2020 and 02 new 737-800 aircraft to be delivered in 2015.


No mention of the ex Cathy/Singapore 777-200s.


MAN OPS do you know the transit timings at MAN?:ok:

[Ian Brooks]

Don`t think their website has been updated for about a year so don`t expect any upto date info on it

BIMAN BANGLEDESH
Equipment used is down as a B772.
I am told these will be leased from Singapore.
Tue 27/10/09
BG011
Arrives MAN from DAC (Dhaka) - 18:00
Departs MAN to JFK - 19:30
Wed 28/10/09
BG012
Arrives MAN from JFK - 14:45
Departs MAN to DAC - 16:15
Sat 31/10/09
BG011
Arrives MAN from DAC - 18:00
Departs MAN to JFK - 19:30
Sun 01/11/09
BG012
Arrives MAN from JFK - 14:45
Departs MAN to DAC - 16:15
Continues on this schedule but at this time looks as if it will start a few weeks late
Info from Plane Mad sitehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


Ian B
Edited to add info

[groundbum]

would biman be allowed to sell MAN-JFK tickets? The other airlines on this route can be quite pricey a lot of the time boohoo british airways pulling off the route...

G

[MUFC_fan]

I think PIA do, but only via travel agents and it may be the same for Biman.

At the moment, the best prices are available from LHR as more airlines move onto the route increasing the competition massively.

It is now, on a number of occasions to fly MAN-LHR-NYC with a connection flight than it is to fly non-stop.

[transwede]

Slightly off topic, but hoping someone can answer - does VS still base the 744 at MAN for MCO flights or has it reverted to Airbus equipment?

[Fernanjet]

744 i believe...

[MAN OPS]

Air Astana 757 arrived around 19:30 tonight for Air Livery

[MUFC_fan]

They use it on all 10/11 weekly flights during the summer months. I believe all other destinations are A343 it I am not mistaken?

[MAN OPS]

Thomson Airways 767-300 GOBYD will arrive from GSO (Greensboro') USA
at 01:30 on 21st fitted with winglets.:ok:

[take-off]

Hi guys just wondered if anyone knows , are Bmi doing tfs flights on this date?

Have booked a long weekend cheapy on trav rep. and they are giving a BD ref for the flight out BD8353 7.00am theres is also a 7.10 am flight offered with a BD code, but cannot see anything on MAN's website when looking up tfs flights , can find a 7.00am MON and EASY flights but no mention of BMI, ANy insight before i book , just dont want to have stress at airport of finding im on a completely different flight when i check in , cheers guys (and gals!:ok:)

[Musket90]

Schedules for that date showing the BD8353 to TFS at 0730, A320 aircraft

[easyboy22]

Thomson aircraft parked near staff west winglets look huge and very smart

[MAN OPS]

Aeroflot

SU4241 / 02NOV SVO - MAN STA 12:10 A320
SU4242 / 04NOV MAN - SVO STD 00:00 A320

Air Astana

KC1370 / 29OCT MAN-ALA STD 1800 B757 (P4-MAS) EX Air Livery

Austrian

OS1471 / 20NOV VIE-MAN STA 10:00 B76W (OE-LAY) To Air Livery
OS1472 / 01DEC MAN-VIE STD 18:15 B76W (OE-LAY) Ex Air Livery

[learjet50]

HI Man ops


Re the Austrian A/c to Air livery

I see it arrives as a 767 and departs as as 737

some quick mods by Air Livery I assume ???

ONLY JOKING

You must be doing too many hours


Regards

[MAN OPS]

Post now edited :)

[Ivan aromer]

When will the ILS be back on 23 at this world class airport? It seems to have been off for rather longer than promised!

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Ivan Aromer,

Here is a little mental exercise for you. Think of whatever airport you consider to be the very best of those which you consider to be world class. Then answer these rhetorical questions.

1) Could/would this airport rush the installation and statutory testing of a piece of ESSENTIAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT used for the purposes of blind landings in adverse weather conditions?

2) Could this airport rush/ignore the obligatory period of safety testing commensurate with equipment upon which the safety of life depends?

3) If you believe it could/would, would you be happy to book flights for yourself and your close family from said airport?

4) Could an airport which was prepared to take short-cuts on the installation and testing of essential safety equipment actually be deserving of the tag 'World Class'?

Manchester isn't taking and won't take such short-cuts. If that means that you wish to deride them for prioritizing world-class safety requirements then that is your choice. By all means use an airport with lower standards.

An airport which is not inclined to rush or shortcut its safety responsibilities is well on the way to being considered 'world class' by me. And I will never criticize or ridicule any airline or airport which ensures that safety is considered first, even at the expense of short-term hassle and inconvenience for all concerned.

Cheers, SHED.

[conti onepass]

just booked manchester to heathrow in december on bmi, showed 11 return flights a day some depart within ten mins of each other!!!!

[al446]

It seems to have been off for rather longer than promised!

It appears that this is the relevant part of the post. He is simply asking a question.

IMHO an airport with the experience that MAN has should be able to forecast the time required and allow a margin of error. Ivan asked a question, you did not answer but instead appear to try to belittle him so what is the point of your post?

[horatio_b]

Think BMI are having some problems with their timetables at present.

I booked a MAN-LHR return for Nov 20-21st back on August 1st

I have had four notifications of timetable changes so far:
one in August, one in September and two in October

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi aI446,

Thankyou for your feedback. I will address your concerns in order:

'It appears that this is the relevant part of the post'
- I take the whole of the post as being relevant. It is a short message.

'He is simply asking a question'
- No he isn't. He is asking a *leading* question. It is phrased in a manner which invites the reader to sneer at Manchester Airport's perceived status for not rushing work with significant safety implications.

'you ... appear to try to belittle him'
- There are no personal remarks in my response. My reply to the contributor is robust, but he has elected to make a provocatively phrased posting concerning Manchester Airport on a public forum so a firm response is justified.

'what is the point of your post?'
- Britain has a culture of ridiculing organisations for prioritizing safety. Note how railway companies are lampooned in the media for canceling or delaying trains affected by leaf mulch. Note how airports are criticized for delaying flights in wet snow conditions. It is very easy to make a cheap jibe at the expense of safety measures.
The contributor's posting makes a jibe about MAN's world-class status to invite derision towards the company for not rushing essential safety equipment into service. The point of my post is to nip that attitude in the bud. Safety issues are not a joke. I will defend any company which takes its safety responsibilities seriously from commentators who would invite public ridicule against them for the inconvenient consequences of so doing. We must not encourage a climate in which companies are rewarded by public approval for rushing or cutting corners on works which have safety critical implications.

That is the point of my post.

Cheers, SHED.

[MUFC_fan]

showed 11 return flights a day some depart within ten mins of each other!!!!


I think, having cancelled a number of flights from LHR they are simply filling the slots up with E145 flights to MAN - maybe wrong though!

Maybe it is demand!:eek:

[Momentary Lapse]

Seems like a fair question to me. The delivery of the ILS, like so many of MA's projects, is late. Fact: the opening date was put back.

Shed, mate, while you do have a valid point about safety, I think you've been a bit sensitive in reading the question and thus you've ranted a bit in your answer.

Give the guy a break. If you can answer the question with a date, fine. Otherwise, shh.

:ok:

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Momentary Lapse,

"When will the ILS be back on 23?" Now THAT is a fair question.

"World class airport? When will the ILS be back on 23 at this world class airport?" Now that is a very different question. It is a question with an agenda beyond seeking a calendar date in reply. That is why I consider a robust response to be warranted, although I respect the right of others to disagree.

With regard to the actual introduction date for the new ILS, I would be happy to post the answer if I knew it. The ILS will be introduced once it has been thoroughly tested and approved by the certifying authorities.

Cheers, SHED.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Looking back over this thread, I recall TURIN suggesting there would be something "significant" happening possibly today, the 26th:

Heard a buzz the other day about something significant going on at the end of the month. (26th?). I have my own private opinion as what it may be but I'll keep schtum for now.

Anyone else heard anything?

To which our friend rapidman47 suggested:

Easy pulling the plug

"backed up"with a further comment:

You will soon see I am right on both counts, so lets wait and see who is right shall we
from 47 at Easy opps

As it is now the fateful date in question, did I miss something in my coffee break today rapidman, or was it all just another example of unsubstantiated mischief mongering ? :uhoh:

[Brian Fantana]

Does anyone know if the installation has reached the testing stage yet and whether the authorities have been to look at certifying the ILS yet?
The ILS was, according to notams, supposed to be u/s until the end of September, this then changed to the end of October.
The end of October is now looming.
Can we expect to see a change in the notams to say it is u/s until the end of November?
If so it is not very satisfactory!

[viscount702]

Testing did as far as I know take place as planned in mid September. CAT I was supposed to be restored mid to late September and CAT III by mid October.

This didn't happen as the NOTAM issued late September stated US until end of October. Clearly there were problems with the new ILS.

An update by way of an ATOI was to have been issued by 16 October. It wasn't. One has been issued today indicating ILS will be back at CAT I in the week commencing 2 November. We will see.

Safety would not be an issue as the CAA would not have certified it until it met all the relevant tests. What is relevant and what I think the first poster on this topic was implying is that once again the program has been running late for reasons which are unknown

Also few more ATOI's were issued today for various taxiways in particular Mike which is to be diverted for 11 weeks and stands 26 28 200 201 and 202 closed.

[Bank Street]

The 26th? Perhaps it was this?! ... Goodbye Olly, hello Olivia as airport cat reveals a secret - News - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1179092_goodbye_olly_hello_olivia_as_airport_cat_reveals_a_s ecret)

[TechProblem]

Regarding the Big anccoument, Easyjet it would seem, are going to be basing more a/c in Manchester, not pulling out.

Menzies are taking on Dispatchers, but is this for Lufty/Swiss or Easyjet expansion?

TP

[GavinC]

Easy expansion would be great news

[MUFC_fan]

Well U2 has to put their new planes somewhere along with the ones it is bringing out of LTN and LGW/MXP have to share the joy.

Its too tempting to NOT predict future routes:p, so here goes!

Madrid, Madeira, increase Athens, Rome - to start with!:ok:

MAN pretty much has most of the U2 network covered with other carriers but I hope they try and find some more unique destinations...

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I would hope they look at BCN.

Having this week had Monarch cancel 2 trips planned for December and January, including over Christmas, we're having to schlepp over to LPL to fly EZY on both occassions. :(

The irony is, even now, the EZY tickets work out significantly cheaper than ZB. :ugh:

My wishlist from their current network would be BCN, BFS, FAO, FCO, LIS, FNC, MAD, NCE, VCE, VIE, WAW.

[Adola69]

As I understand it the ILS replacement programme went out to tender some months back.
Amongst the bidders were THALES and NATS(National Air Traffic Services), the latter supplying the Air Traffic Control service and Engineering support to MA for all their Navigational requirements and have done impeccably for the past 25 years.
The successful winner was THALES, possibly because of the airports present practice of go for the cheapest option if you can!

Thales cracked on with the removal of the old ILS on 23R during the early part of September.
Coincidentally Luton were also replacing their ILS system and had given the contract to NATS. (Not the cheapest perhaps but ----!) and this commenced some two weeks or so after the Manchester work started.
Lutons' ILS has been serviceable now for some two weeks and is well into the 350 hours of continuous, uninterupted, no fault, functionality testing which is required to enable it to be used to CAT 3 standard.
Poor poor Manchester, running at least three weeks behind schedule still mudling through with VOR / DME approaches, - using a VOR that is really an En-route piece of equipment and nothing to do with MA. Wouldn't it be grim if the en route chaps told MA that essential maintenance on the VOR was required and that it'd be off air for a week. All that would be left for inbound traffic would be vectors to a visual final on 23R or 23L, the lowest descent altitude being 1600'. If not visual by then it would be go around and ultimately divert. Hardly a world class scenario.
I believe that there is chance that the ILS on 23R may well be back next week, but who knows when CAT 3 will be available? (Hopefully after 350 hours of unbreakbale service, but I will not be holding my breath)!!

After that they've (THALES), have got two more to do - 05L and 05R - roc on.:rolleyes:

Ah well, back to me sour grapes - oooo they are good;)

[wiccan]

Can anyone in "Authority" at MA plc, a so called "Green Airport" insist on having their evening "Runway Inspection" just as the "planned" inbound rush is about to happen? 5 in the Dayne hold on Sunday 5 on Monday...some are holding unnecessarily for up to 20 mins....WHY?
Is it an Ego trip? I know that ATC are not happy with this situation, so why persist?
Answers on a Postcard.....oh better not..:{

[42psi]

If the current "fixed" inspection times are a recurring issue then maybe get it discussed and examine alternatives at the Tuesday meetings?

On the day there's usually a 'phone call and some flexibility in coordinating the actual time.

I'll pm you.

:ok:

[GavinC]

does anyone know what equipment Thomas Cook use into Las Vegas? What is it like inside with regards to seat pitch and seat back entertainment?

[easyboy22]

They use the A330 on the LAS got seatback screens, If a ex MYT external camera and 33" seat pitch down the back think 35/6" in premium.

[HXdave]

the ex MYT A330's also have the downstairs toilets.........

[horatio_b]

Lufthansa sees Manchester traffic slow - Crain's Manchester Business (http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co.uk/article/20091028/FREE/910289994/1148)

[mybrico]

Could be why LH looking at LPL, KLM has increased NW Market share and passenger since ops from both

[MUFC_fan]

Could be why LH looking at LPL, KLM has increased NW Market share and passenger since ops from both


Do you have any evidence to support that?

KLM are different to LH - LH have a much higher significance and MAN, not only through their mainline and regional services, but also Germanwings, BMI, BMI Regional and BMIBaby.

LH will know what they're doing but I can't see LPL any time soon...

[ACCMan]

New 4th based unit will arrive 10Feb10 and be an A319. The only new route is HEL (4 per week) however ATH and CPH will start earlier than originally planned and there will be increased rotations to TFS, PFO and ALC. GVA remains on a LPL based A319 w-pattern.

Rgds
ACCMAN

[AndyH52]

ACCMan - I'm confused. MAN - ATH started in August and MAN - CPH starts on 6th November. Not sure how an aircraft arriving next February can facilitate any earlier a start...

[MUFC_fan]

Thanks ACCMan.

Is the LPL-GVA-MAN-GVA-LPL operated by one crew or not?

Thanks.

[easyboy22]

Mufc_fan it's operated by a Lpl crew and they do all 4 sectors
think it's still them now times changed to lunchtime

Rumour is we will have 5 aircraft by about march time.
But only hanger89 know that

[MUFC_fan]

Thanks easyboy. Long day for the crew!

[easyboy22]

Yeah it is a bit. But busy flights so goes
quite quick.

[Bagso]

Lufthansa Traffic Boost at BHX !

...and here's me thinking this was the Manchester Thread ?

Let us Mancunians rejoice at this "good cheer" from Bhx5dme.

Based on this news I shall certainly be popping the Christmas bunting up early this year !

[ben_keghead]

Where do you get this info from?

I have heard nothing about HEL...its not been announced anywhere?

The only thing that we do know is that as per the announcement made back in December 2007, that Liverpool will have 10 aircraft and Manchester 5 by the end of 2010. (Liverpool currently have 8 A319s and 1 A320, and Manchester has 3 A320s)

[nigel.hayes007]

10 Easy,s based wow! Along with the Ryanair and Wizzair flights Liverpool must be making a fortune in landing fees ,get up to 50 based and they may even make a proffit,or will it just be another housing estate by then.

[MUFC_fan]

To be honest and to give LPL credit - they can pretty much hold FR to North West ransom.

FR have publicly dis-owned MAN and BLK in the North West - so which other airport will the airline fly to in the UK's second biggest aviation region. LPL is the only choice...

U2 have started to expand at both LPL and MAN and have set out their plans for the two bases but LPL would have to be more careful with this airline. U2 profit from the airport but they would easily be able to transfer 9/10 of their services to MAN with little trouble, probably being able to increase revenue. HOWEVER, it would be very unlikely they would do that as FR would clean up at LPL. U2 don't make rash decision unlike their Irish counter part.

So juggling the two carriers puts LPL in a very strong position and I am sure they are making some sort of profit.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Could be why LH looking at LPL, KLM has increased NW Market share and passenger since ops from both

Let me quote anonymously a reply to this from someone well in the know:

ROFL, more regurgitated wet dream speculation started on North West Air News. If you parked an ice cream van outside LJA, some of them would start a rumour that Alitalia were about to start double daily to Rome! :E

[nigel.hayes007]

not even the pope or his boss holds MOL to ransom

[MUFC_fan]

But money does...

[rapidman47]

Quote:
Could be why LH looking at LPL, KLM has increased NW Market share and passenger since ops from both
Let me quote anonymously a reply to this from someone well in the know:

Quote:
ROFL, more regurgitated wet dream speculation started on North West Air News. If you parked an ice cream van outside LJA, some of them would start a rumour that Alitalia were about to start double daily to Rome!
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=5281971) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/reply_small.gif (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5281971&noquote=1)Alot of people on this thread will have egg on their faces soon mark my words :rolleyes:

[dwlpl]

Alot of people on this thread will have egg on their faces soon mark my words

rapidman - read your PMs.

[MancRy]

MAN-GVA W pattern is operated by the same crew based in LPL. However, some weekend flights will be operated by MAN crews using a based A320.

Not sure about the new aircraft although rumours are that it is imminent, atleast in terms of the announcement. I suspect however the consultation periods are various other bases must be completed before any decision or ,indeed announcement, is made. CPH is a new route starting in November and therefore would already be operation when aircraft 4 (and possibly 5) arrives. ATH starting early could well be true and wouldn't surprise me as loads have been very high right to the very end.

Someone also mentioned that "Manchester was not closing". I don't think this was ever on the cards. Initially, there were no guarantee's but EZY are very happy with MAN's performance. The base has pretty much been a test bed for new longer distance routes (e.g PFO, TFS). Such routes ex MAN tend not to have any full service competition hence decent yields plus they can be very lucrative in terms of onboard sales. Consequently we are seeing longer distance routes of 5h + creeping in right across the network.

[ben_keghead]

EZY to ATH has been ongoing since May 09, as has CFU, HER, DLM

CPH, MUC, and MAK start in the coming week....

[scrapy]

The fourth aircraft will be pretty much utilised with existing routes. CPH, MUC & RAK will take over from summer only routes such as BIA, CFU, DLM and HER. Assuming they return next year alongside the new routes a fourth aircraft will be needed. A fifth will probably be needed if more destinations announced.

[MancRy]

Yes but ATH is stopping at the end of the week

[ACCMan]

ACCMan - I'm confused. MAN - ATH started in August and MAN - CPH starts on 6th November. Not sure how an aircraft arriving next February can facilitate any earlier a start...

Yep you're right. The CPH does run all winter (I'll check my source!); the ATH last flight is 04Nov so hopefully it will restart early Feb10 with the 4th unit.


All this talk about LH and BHX, in case it's not mentioned on the BHX forum (I never read it) they, along with LGW, have just lost US Airways as part of the airline's global cut backs. At least we've retained our PHL service and are still one of the few non-capital cities in Euorpe to have a widebody aircraft.

Long may it continue!!!

[easyboy22]

I found out yesterday that the 4th A/C
will be here jan then the 5th in April
that's the plan at the moment...
Another couple of long routes been looked at too.

[Ian Brooks]

If this is correct someone should have a large ammount of egg on his face


Ian B

[GavinC]

anyone got any ideas about when the routes might be announced based on the arrival schedule for the Aircraft?

[Ian Brooks]

When I get home from work this evening i might sit down and have a look at
the Easyjet shedule as it is for Jan-May 2010

Ian B

[dwlpl]

Up to the end of winter schedules in March there is a need for three aircraft.

[Jet A1]

EZY will be deciding shortly how to operate both bases to their max potential.

They are keen to operate one base as a 'Holiday' base and the other as a 'Business/City Break' destination. Make of that what you will.

[MUFC_fan]

I find that hard to believe.

I assume it would be MAN as holiday and LPL as business yet that would be in the wrong order to start with.

Add to that that LPL will have 10 planes and MAN 5, it would be very difficult to make it that black and white.

What about all the sun destinations from LPL.

It ain't gunna be like that I don't think...

[MancRy]

Take the Holiday, Business/City split with a pinch of Salt. Since MAN opened as a base we have seen the launch of business and holiday routes. Meanwhile LPL has seen ACE and FUE launched. Consequently there is little or no pattern that suggests that the two airports will target different flights. Admittedly LPL-FUE/ACE was a surprise when TFS departs MAN nevertheless, such a split has not been discussed internally.

I think we will see minimal duplication of routes other than those that can support it. IMO MAN will see a mixture of new routes both business and leisure that aren't already served by LPL. CPH, MUC and RAK are a prime example of this strategy.

[Bank Street]

bmi baby pulling its MAN-ALC and MAN-AGP routes as of 14th November due to lack of demand. Letters and refunds in the post for those who have dates booked after 15th

[BYALPHAINDIA]

WoW - The start of 'Miserable November' and MAN is 'Rocking'!!

Been following the daily log on The Aviation Society site, And looking at the number of Arr & Dep's it is VERY BUSY.

In over 25 years I have never known it to be this busy in November?

TOM have at least 5 763's based, Quite uncommon for the winter.

TCX are going mad!

5 752's, 763, & 3/4 A320/1's in and out all day long most days.

And some days upto 3 A330's being used.

The Scheduled flights are also very busy also.

Everything used to 'Grind To A Halt' come October the 31st.

(There's No Sign Of A Recession At MAN)

Maybe the reason is because of the cutbacks at LBIA & DSA & Others?

Or people are escaping 'Miserable Great Britain' for a break

I hope this winter is the start of things.

[MUFC_fan]

We do however need to remember:


Ryanair have left except DUB
TOM/FCA have reduced their schedules by quite some way
SQ is down


However, adding to TCX's extremely large presence now this winter:


Decent carrier on Cologne with great forward bookings and looking to introduce up to two more routes
Some new Eastern European carrier launching two routes
US Airways keeping the A333 on the PHL route even though a number of routes in Europe have been cancelled. BTW, MAN is now the only 'secondary' city in Europe to be served by US A333!
EK figures continue to perform extremely well and it's only a matter of time...
U2 are expanding nicely with two more machines expected
Jet2 launching new routes, and if I am correct, next summer MAN will get another based aircraft?


So some ups and downs but overall I think that the future is looking good compared to a number of other airports in the UK.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

I agree,

This winter's loads at TOM/FCA are very good compared to previous winters at MAN, TCX also look to have good bookings.

Egypt bookings have being 'Going Thru The Roof' as alot of people are downing the Euro Zone as we all know the rate it is at now.

Think Egypt & Turkey have sold themselves exceptional this winter.

We might be returning to Egypt ourselves before xmas.

BEE & BMI seem to dominate the daily scheduled movements, With ZB at their usual capacity.

[Betablockeruk]

Yes but what about the travelators? :}

Anyway, LH MD11F twice weekly and the return of Biman in December surely worth a mention. Also Air Livery are really packing them in (literally).

[Ivan aromer]

Any news on the ils

[AndyH52]

ILS now NOTAM'd as u/s until 30 Nov 09, with the ILS DME for 23R / 5L u/s until Jan 10.

[OltonPete]

Reported on another forum major route revision with 320's coming to Europe in greater numbers and Heathrow only with the 777 in the UK.

Some say Manchester flights from 10/1/10 are already removed from GDS and the Saudi site.

I checked the SV site and MAN was all shaded out in January and all GVA flights by A320.

Anyone confirm?

Peter

[OltonPete]

One rumour claimed heathrow would be the only European 777 destination for Saudi.

I can't check GDS as I don't have access but the MAN flights are believed to be removed.



Peter

[MUFC_fan]

Anyone know why TK will be operating an A343 on the IST service on 16th November?

[andy mach 1]

Increased demand for Hajj to Mecca?

[planenutter]

Hi,

where did you get this information from?? From people at the airport? Or off a website? Kind regards

Will:)

[MUFC_fan]

Amadeus and OAG.

[MUFC_fan]

Campaigners say Gatwick runway a &lsquo;non starter&rsquo; : Gatwick Airport News Stories (http://uk-airport-news.info/gatwick-airport-news-031109.html)

With Birmingham, Stansted, Gatwick and due to be Heathrow (unless that Toff really messes up over the EU Treaty but that is another story) - thank God MAN got it's runway in while it still could!

[LGWAlan]

Saudi flights are no longer in Amadeus

[BHX5DME]

Pax - 1,615,977 down 11.46% (or 210,000 less pax than Oct 08)

Movements - 14,849 down 15.4% (or 2,700 less movements than Oct 08)

Freight - 10,494 down 10.87%

Rolling 12m pax - 19,149,825 down 11.68%

[Betablockeruk]

Saudi flights are no longer in AmadeusPax ............down
Movements..........down
Freight........down
Rolling...........down
Thanks guys for the uplifting news. :hmm:

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Saudi flights are no longer in Amadeus

They are from April, and with the 777 still.... :confused:

[ben_keghead]

For the United v Besiktas Match....

[MUFC_fan]

I'm guessing the airline need the aircraft for the Haji flights and will be using an A320 on the GVA route and I guess not enough room on an A320 for both MAN and GVA so MAN will have to wait until the 777 returns.

That's my interpretation of the situation anyway - is that the case?

Thanks

[Seljuk22]

SQ SIN-MUC-MAN 3/7 B77W

https://sws.fhkd.org/ ("Show Waitinglist" > "MUC" and "S10" > "Retrieve")

TK IST-MAN-LAX
Turkish Aviation November 2009 — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4595339/) (starting Reply 22)

EK 017/018 DXB-MAN A380
FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - Emirates new routes (and changes) for 2010 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12775115-post18.html)

[conti onepass]

just read about turkish airlines thread. good if it starts, someone has stated that it would not work, because british airways tried it and it failed due to poor loads!!! i flew on ba to lax from manchester full going coming back was on standby 4 five days, eventually i had to fly to london... so dont know where he got his info from!!

[Skipness One Echo]

Some bloke from Venezuala suggests this route from thin air on another internet website and we're off into the silly season!

As to BAs MAN-LAX, full though it often was in the peak season, overall it lost lots of money. Just because you see bums on seats does not equate to a profitable route. If THY decide to stop the progress of their LAX passengers by stopping in Manchester for a wee break then that's simply fabulous. Unless you started in Turkey when it simply becomes another pain in the ( numbed )arse of an already long flight.

Multi stop, multi country long haul drops like this hardly ever work. Look at Saudia for God's sake. It would be way simpler just to connect at Heathrow!

Even Singapore are turning the clock back to the 80s and stopping en-route. A non starter, or a one season wonder. Before anyone mentions PIA there are almost as many Pakistanis in the North West than there are anywhere else in the world so PIA is a local service airline. Turkish isn't.

[MUFC_fan]

Is that not the Venezuelan who produces the trip reports on TK and seems to know quite a lot about them?:confused:

I think a IST-MAN-LAX would work very well. I BD would certainly help fill the plane, if LH allow them to take some of their traffic from their own German connections! Plus, IST-LAX on it's own would provide well over 50% of the capacity and I would definitely try out the J/F cabins on the MAN-IST service!:} I guess that the current 10 times weekly flights may fall to more reasonable levels?:confused:

Obviously still a rumour, but even if there is nothing in it - it certainly is a viable idea for the ever expanding TK!

No-one can argue with the EK 'rumour'/done deal - it is only a matter of time. The route must be one of their best performing 2-class routes on their network and I think it can take an F class service!;)

The SQ seems very interesting. Obviously these applications don't always go through but it does show that SQ do still have the slightest interest in MAN. They also think that MAN can take an F cabin! Similar to the old 744 service MAN-GVA-SIN route. Will this replace the 77E route or will it be in addition?

Thanks - good times ahead for MAN - they need it!:D

[Skipness One Echo]

I think a IST-MAN-LAX would work very well.
Why not IST-LAX direct?
BD would certainly help fill the plane, if LH allow them to take some of their traffic from their own German connections!
Ja, our planes are much too full and profitable so let's send our passengers on two partner airlines to the US. NEIN!!!!!

The route must be one of their best performing 2-class routes on their network and I think it can take an F class service!
No no no no no no! Quickest way to ruin a route is to assume that. There is almost ZERO proper F class demand outside of London. Lots of business class of course but First? Even premium flunkies BA are removing First from their new B777s from Heathrow. Singapore might use an F class aircraft but only because they are juggling aircraft, certainly little call for F on a non daily service.

MUFC_Fan you're usually one of the saners guys on here!

[Curious Pax]

Why not IST-LAX direct?

Because IST-LAX is 6871 miles going off the Great Circle Mapper. This is greater than the range of TK's 330s, and on the margins of their 340s. Their 773ERs will be capable, but maybe that is too much capacity to start off the route with.

Could all be pie in the sky, but there are valid reasons why a one-stop IST-LAX service may be preferable, especially if routing via an airport that doesn't serve west coast USA, and (if) fifth freedom traffic is allowed.

[MUFC_fan]

Why not IST-LAX direct?


With what? The 77W is far too large and nothing else would make it fully loaded.


Ja, our planes are much too full and profitable so let's send our passengers on two partner airlines to the US. NEIN!!!!!


BD is not a partner airline. I think that for UK passengers it would be more favourable - whether LH management see it that way I am not sure. Adding to the fact that BD don't partner with TK on current routes I doubt it but I would think it would be a must if fifth freedom rights between MAN-LAX are available, which I guess would be - it would make the route so much more viable.


No no no no no no! Quickest way to ruin a route is to assume that. There is almost ZERO proper F class demand outside of London. Lots of business class of course but First? Even premium flunkies BA are removing First from their new B777s from Heathrow. Singapore might use an F class aircraft but only because they are juggling aircraft, certainly little call for F on a non daily service.


To be honest, having read your post I can agree with you on that point. A bit caught up in the moment!:ok: I would say that EK could get some F passengers on the MAN-DXB route though. I remember the article about many EK passengers heading down to EK, up to 50% I believe? Surely there would be some there?:confused: Plus - they have showers!:ok:


MUFC_Fan you're ususally one of the saners guys on here!

It's been a long day!

[AircraftOperations]

The TK LAX service might explain why Kevin Costner appears on their advertising posters!

[TURIN]

There is almost ZERO proper F class demand outside of London. Lots of business class of course but First?

Apparently there are more millionaires per square mile just down the road from MAN at Prestbury/Alderly Edge than anywhere else in the UK.

No idea if that is a 7 or 7000. Just a thought. :hmm:

[ETOPS]

I'm just off to play golf this morning with one of the "Cheshire Millionaires" mentioned by TURIN - 11.40am tee time at BPGC if anyone wants to watch. He is a frequent flyer from MAN with business in the Gulf and South Africa plus leisure travel to the US etc. He always flys Business/Club and economy, never First - being cost concious is part of his success story.

I think he is part of a trend - First wil only be viable on a very limited number of routes, those from major hubs like LHR not regional 'fields like MAN.

[AircraftOperations]

A lot of these people are millionaires because they are wise with their money and don't fritter it away. Regular travellers tell me that with a decent business product, it is not worth the extra expense to travel first. Just wait until you have enough miles to upgrade for free... or wait until you get bumped up every now and again.

[ETOPS]

11.40am tee time at BPGC if anyone wants to watch.

It was a "better ball" comp, we came second with 35 points after a card play-off. Therefore my missed putt on the 18th lost it for us :{

[getonittt]

US Airways keeping the A333 on the PHL route even though a number of routes in Europe have been cancelled. BTW, MAN is now the only 'secondary' city in Europe to be served by US A333!

What do you mean by a 'secondary city' ? I take it you mean 'non capital city ' in which case Frankfurts double daily US A333 makes that statement untrue!

:confused:

[MUFC_fan]

US Airways keeping the A333 on the PHL route even though a number of routes in Europe have been cancelled. BTW, MAN is now the only 'secondary' city in Europe to be served by US A333!

What do you mean by a 'secondary city' ? I take it you mean 'non capital city ' in which case Frankfurts double daily US A333 makes that statement untrue!


Hamburg is Germany's second city by way of population but when taking all factors (transport, wealth etc.) into account, Munich is the second city.

[TG345]

Need to take EY to AUH, and I'm pondering the cost/benefit balance between going C or Y. Would be sorely tempted to settle for Y on a six-ish hour flight, particularly if there was a sporting chance of a few empty seats scattered about the cabin. Anyone able to share what the loads have been like on this route recently?

Thanks for any help.

[jongeman]

Etihad loads ex-MAN were approximately 82% in September, although I couldn't give a breakdown between classes.

[GavinC]

I understand they have been pretty full but not quite full enough to need to bumb a few people up.

[MAN777]

Award for Manchester Airport : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-081109.html)

[MAN777]

Etihad sign Flybe codeshare : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-061109.html)

[Betablockeruk]

Hopefully pushing more direct onto the EY so that upgrade to regular 346 results.

Trust that the arrivals info won't be like the GLA shuttle farce:

14:35 AC6625 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 BD006 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 LH6530 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 NZ4406 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 QR5263 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 SK9769 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 TP8925 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 UA4816 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 UL2226 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 US5470 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431

[MUFC_fan]

Need to take EY to AUH, and I'm pondering the cost/benefit balance between going C or Y. Would be sorely tempted to settle for Y on a six-ish hour flight, particularly if there was a sporting chance of a few empty seats scattered about the cabin. Anyone able to share what the loads have been like on this route recently?


If you are happy in economy for the six hours then Etihad will be fine. Largest IFE screen in the business (by all of 0.1"!;)) But there service is also very good.

However...if their business class is within your finances then definitely take it - superb service and arguably the most private business class on any airliner.


Trust that the arrivals info won't be like the GLA shuttle farce:

14:35 AC6625 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 BD006 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 LH6530 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 NZ4406 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 QR5263 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 SK9769 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 TP8925 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 UA4816 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 UL2226 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431
14:35 US5470 HEATHROW EXPECTED 1431


That is rediculous for two reasons:

1. The sheer number of code shares!

2. Why can they not FILL the plane with that many different airlines selling the seats on them?!:ugh:

But it is necessary. If you are flying with US or Qatar from London and it isn't on your ticket, then you ain't going to get on the BMI aircraft! It's hard enough when you see people confused that the plane isn't a Qatar airways jet, never mind the flight number!

[rudolf]

Wonder how people are coping with the tailwind onto 05L with LVPs in force?

[Scottie Dog]

I don't think that a cross wind of 160/4kts will be causing much of a problem!!

[superspotter]

Regarding Etihad, being fortunate to travel MAN-AUH-MAN every 28 days on business class, I can vouch for it, superb. Try and get a window seat in Pearl class as it's known and it is indeed quite private, the aisle seats are a little more prone to slight interference from passing traffic! The screens in Pearl are 17" and the champagne is particularly quaffable :)
And although the seats turn into lie flat beds, it seems to me to be such a waste......too much good food and so little time:ok:

[rudolf]

Was 210/5 when I looked earlier. Lots of diversions and cancellations.

[LGS6753]

To date there are 2 diversions out, and 18 cancellations, but about 13-14 of the cancellations are FlyBe flights. Don't the -400s like the fog?

[flybar]

Flybe opted to operate from LBA for the evening!!

[FL370 Officeboy]

The Q400 is able to operate to CAT 2 (300m RVR, DH 100ft) - but alas 05L is not authorized for CAT 2 ops. BLK, BHX and LBA have all seen flybe diversions.

[doublesix]

What is the ILS on 05L. Is it only Cat 1? When it's replaced will it be full Cat 3 or remain as it is.

[GusHoneybun]

05L has published CAT I and CAT III minina. It doesn't however, have CAT II minima for CAT C aircraft. I think it's something to do with the RADALT going bonkers as you pass over the wee valley on very short final.

[rudolf]

Nothing that 300 tonnes of gravel wouldn't sort out!!!!

Taxiway to 05R anyone?

[Ian Brooks]

You need a lot more than 300 tons try 300,000 and I bet you would still be short


Ian B

[rudolf]

You get the idea though, 2 runways that can be used at the same time, novel idea I know!!!

[simufly]

From the above few posts I take it that the ILS on 23R is still not working?

[Betablockeruk]

23R ILS? I remember the old days when the flight path went in front of the house.

Latest is 30/11. I've got quite used to the 229 path and the morning VS has stopped waking me up. :zzz:

[AndyH52]

Traffic stats for October don't make any better reading than previous months. Terminal pax (i.e. excluding transits) now slipped below 19m for the rolling 12 month period.

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/C1490C3823E2E02580257664005AA065/$File/TrafficStatisticsOct.pdf

[Ian Brooks]

Don`t forget to factor Ryanair for the large decrease in October

Ian B

[Scottie Dog]

From the MAG World website - dated 9th November 2009


"The replacement of the ILS on Runway 23R has taken somewhat longer than planned due to technical difficulties with some of the existing ground communications infrastructure. This delayed the submission of the final safety cases for consideration by the CAA. All ground works are now complete awaiting approvals, which we are expecting to be forthcoming this week."

[EGCC4284]

VOR/DME 23R tonight. It's good practise LOL

[Betablockeruk]

It's good practise LOLFor Fri pm!! EGCC 122301Z...... TEMPO 1316/1401 18023G40KT 2000 +RA :uhoh:

[AndyH52]

EZY has released its Manchester schedules for the summer which show four aircraft on station. Alicante, Athens, Dalaman, Heraklion, Malaga, Malta and Tenerife all see additional services. Schedule gives 62 departures a week (compared to 54 in June '10) of which 7 are operated by a LPL-based aircraft on a 'W' pattern.

[Ian Brooks]

Are there going to be more as Bastia shows on drop down bar but no availability
only operated for a short period this year



Ian B

[AndyH52]

Bastia operates weekly on a Sunday. There are (by my reckoning) 7 gaps in the schedule (3 morning and 4 evening) so one would assume a couple of routes are still to be announced.

[EGCC4284]

For Fri pm!! EGCC 122301Z...... TEMPO 1316/1401 18023G40KT 2000 +RA

Thankfully wasn't there when we arrived at 21:30pm

Went halfway around the hold at DAYNE due to traffic build up

[Brian Fantana]

EGCC 122301Z...... TEMPO 1316/1401 18023G40KT 2000 +RA

Thankfully wasn't there when we arrived at 21:30pm

Err thats because it is a forecast for later on today Fri 13th and not last night.
Back to the Met class for some!!

[EGCC4284]

Should of gone to specsavers LOL

[MAN OPS]

Alitalia 777 due 1st Dec for paint job at Air Livery :)

[Suzeman]

Just found this on UK Airport News.

I assume that this is the old Ops Tower rather than Control Tower!

So where has everyone gone who used to work in the Ops Tower - Ops 3 etc and I think the PABX was up there at one stage?

I don't suppose there would be any chance of cask ale up there but it would be nice to have some somewhere at MAN. How come there is no Wetherspoons at MAN - plenty at other UK airports!

Suzeman


18.11.09
In a world first, Manchester Airport is to convert its old (and currently out of use) control tower in Terminal 1 to create an elevated 110sq m luxury bar. The airport is seeking a partner to manage the new business once complete.

The space is arranged over four levels, with Level 5 featuring the open-plan bar. There, passengers will have unobstructed views over the airfield. Access is from Level 2 – the main retail area in Departures - via a lift or a spiral staircase within the core of the building. The Level 2 entrance area could be opened up to the concourse, and could be used for merchandising to maximise passing trade. This area could also be used as a reception / concierge zone where guests could wait before travelling to the bar on Level 5.

Manchester Airport said the control tower would contain ‘an exciting space with unparalleled views,’ and that it would be ‘comfortable, intimate and special’. The company added: ‘Manchester Airport is committed to working together in partnership to create an innovative and remarkable destination for a special brand.’ The bar aims to complement the recent £50m upgrade of Terminal 1.

[Adola69]

:} With the decrease in movements and runway opening times, those ATC chaps have decided that they to may be opening up a rather Upmarket bar on the old 23L / 05R control desk. Various names for this bar have been suggested such as "Slippery when wet " , or "Hollier than thou & 23R" and even "What's an ILS then " !

Retail outlets on the way in will sell various mementoes of Airport memorabilia such as, the remains of the many holes in 23R and taxiway A.
A Flight progress strip of an inbound Fed-Ex MD-11.
A choice of now defunct Flight Plans will be available from Malaysian Airlines, El Al, South African, China Airlines, Qantas, Alitalia, Air Portugal, Iberia, Air Baltic, Egyptair, Syrian Air, Air Algerie, Air Canada, British Eagle, Hunting Clan, Tradair, Air Links, and our very own Mercury Airlines and many more to follow!

Prize draws will take place on a regular basis to 'Ride out' with those Hot-Pour boys. Many holes to fill, so lots of opportunitys, tickets - A pound !

Also replicas of the Town-Halls within the Greater Manchester Area. All poceeds from these sales in particular will go direct to the councils themselves, as they will not be seen subsiding the local " Global Warming Polutant" (Well they never have done as far as I know, so why change?)

I could go on but I'll shut -up now.
Do we have any takers?? :(

[MAN OPS]

The 'control' tower was never used to control any traffic at MAN. This tower was only used for office space for Apron control where they would allocate parking stands. This has now been moved into a larger airport operations complex.

[steve wilson]

Does this have anything to do with Manchester TMA and its associated ancilliary work moving to Prestwick, surely that will have freed up some room at MAN. Is this access from airside only?

Steve

[Ceannairceach]

No Steve, this tower was never ATC related. It was formerly used by Apron Control who allocated stands etc from there.

[Betablockeruk]

Oooo, artist impressions of the tower bar.

Manchester Airport set to convert Terminal 1 control tower into a luxury bar; seeks partner for new concession – 16/11/09 | TheMoodieReport.com (http://www.moodiereport.com/document.php?c_id=1177&doc_id=22379)

[greatoaks]

Can someone tell me what is located in the old first floor food hall in T1 now.

Is it one of the lounges?

cheers

[Ceannairceach]

I think there are various lounges up there.

[Trash_Hauler]

Seems to me that his space could be better utilised by, and SHOULD be used by.... Airfield Control (formerly Apron Control). They (AC) now occupy an office in the decrepit old Tower Block with NO windows. They cant even SEE the apron they are meant to be controlling! Absolute madness if you ask me! I don't see why MAPLC just doesn't get rid of the airplane side of the airport all together and run the place as one big friggin mall, because that's what it is! Nothing more than an extension to the Trafford Centre!

[EGCC4284]

This has now been moved into a larger airport operations complex from where they can not see the apron. Its a joke. Manchester Airport is run by clowns

[Bagso]

"Retail outlets on the way in will sell various mementoes of Airport memorabilia such as, the remains of the many holes in 23R and taxiway A.
A Flight progress strip of an inbound Fed-Ex MD-11.
A choice of now defunct Flight Plans will be available from Malaysian Airlines, El Al, South African, China Airlines, Qantas, Alitalia, Air Portugal, Iberia, Air Baltic, Egyptair, Syrian Air, Air Algerie, Air Canada, British Eagle, Hunting Clan, Tradair, Air Links, and our very own Mercury Airlines and many more to follow!"


Come on don't be stingy with that list....see also

Luxair, Mauritius, Seychelles, GulfAir, Air India, RAM, Uzbek, Mearsk, Biman, Estonian, Austrian........

[ZOOKER]

"Manchester Airport is run by clowns"
This statement is incorrect.
The airport is run by a small, one-eared ginger cat. :E

[Sir George Cayley]

Should, God forbid, there be another major loss of life such as the 737 incident in the 1980's, one wonders what at a subsequent enquiry, the decision to remove operational staff from this vantage point to a lesser one will be viewed as.

Sad day, lions led by donkeys (with accountancy qualifications)

Sir George Cayley

[Ian Brooks]

Sir George Cayley
What has this got to do with a plane crash? the control tower is not affected it is only the old ground handling building which has not been used for quite a while for stand allocation!

Ian

[Ceannairceach]

And to be fair Apron Control have never needed windows or to see the apron or stands to do their PC-software-based job. So it makes little difference where they are.

[MAN OPS]

Qatar will use 777 on their Sat 21st Nov service :ok:

[MUFC_fan]

Is there a reason why a couple of carriers are dangling the larger aircraft in front of us?

Is the 777 in for any special reason or just as the schedulin/servicing works go?

[planenutter]

I got told the Qatar 777 was due in on the 22nd Sunday and 25th Wednesday. No definite though. W/B planenutter

[TURIN]

PPRUNE is amazing really. Just thought I would pop in to see what's new in the world and I find that tomorrow I will be wandering around the QR045 thinking, "this A330 looks a bit odd, someones nicked the winglets. Bu**er me, it's a Cripple!"

You would have thought someone would have mentioned it earlier wouldn't you? You know just to make sure there would be no handling issues. :hmm: