MANCHESTER - 7

[mickyman]

Turin

I think you will find that 'events on Sept 11 2001' were (in part) a
consequence of carelessness at Boston Logan when the
perpetrators past through gate control.

MM

[Trash_Hauler]

mickeyman... With all due respect, I think you will find out it was just a bit more complex than that. Have you read the Congressional Findings on Sept 11? I have, and whilst ridiculously long winded, it makes for an interesting read. Just like ANY incident involving aircraft, it is RARELY one single cause, but rather a comedy of errors.

[mickyman]

Trash Hauler

Agreed.

MM

[TURIN]

I think you will find that 'events on Sept 11 2001' were (in part) a
consequence of carelessness at Boston Logan when the
perpetrators past through gate control.

Perhaps, but as far as I am aware (I haven't read the report) the airport staff were not responsible for bringing weapons airside, nor were any of the perps' airport staff.

I stand to be corrected here though. :ok:

Maybe this should be moved to jetblast. :E

[Momentary Lapse]

And until they put a roof on the whole airside area :ooh:, or make the fences 20m high, it's still easy for someone landside to throw a bag full of nasty bits over the fence for someone airside to pick up later and chuck into the hold of any aircraft with its hold doors open.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Local radio has just carried a news report advising that coin-slots are to be fitted to Manchester Airport baggage trolleys (supermarket style). Quite apart from the effects of this on employment (and I totally sympathize with those affected) there is another issue here.

Foreign visitors rarely arrive in the UK with a pocket full of £1 coins. Banknotes yes, credit cards yes, but not small change denominated in British currency. So what do they do? Perhaps the coin slots can be modified to accept either £1 or EUR1 coins ... they're worth about the same these days! Perhaps they can put machines on the wall close to trolley distribution points which will exchange certain banknotes for £1 coins?

But some visitors will not be carrying the most common currencies of EUR or USD ... what if they are carrying Rupees or Icelandic Kronor? Will they have access to a currency exchange facility BEFORE they require their trolley from baggage reclaim? ATM's do not accept cards issued in all countries, so they cannot be the complete answer in an airport environment.

If Manchester Airport's management wishes to ensure that the airport never again wins a "Best Airport" gong, this initiative and charging for £1 for two small plastic bags constitute an inspired step forward in ensuring that outcome.

[IB4138]

A retrograde step.

Most other airports in Europe have removed the stupid coin slots from baggage trolleys.

Sounds like yet another desperate hair brained idea from management, which they think will raise money, as people will abandon trolleys with coins still in them. It won't, as coins are cash and find there way into pockets, not to be accounted for.

Also the maintainence cost of the slots will be found to be a negative on the balance sheet.

[brian_dromey]

For most trolleys £1 and €1 are interchangeable (and in fact the 20c coin as well). It seems like such a cheap-skate thing to do though, like supermarkets do in some areas - or are these trolleys going to be like the ones in the Us, where you don't get your money back?

Brian.

[mickyman]

Turin

Perhaps they can change their job titles to not
include the word 'security'.

MM

[Tulsablue]

Update on the new Coach service:

The website is www.airdirectmanchester.com (http://www.airdirectmanchester.com/)
There is just a holding page at the moment and fares have not been released yet but airline and airport staff will get a 25% discount:ok:. Website will be live from 1st April, you can book online or cash on the coach.

More news soon

[zfw]

Trolleys

Alleged at the moment that it will cost 1 pound to buy a coin that fits into the trolley slot, this coin will be worthless and you will not get your pound back.

Ringway staff to be cut from about 60 to 30 who collect trolleys.

Security

Belts at the moment but hear a rumour that a questionaire was put to security staff, to gauge what sent the divers gates off.

No.1 was belts

No.2 was watches

And it goes on, the machines have been recently made more sensitive hence the need to get you to strip so that you do not set the thing off.

This is a Man Airport Policy and NOT DFT.

Apparently even under-wired bras set it off, so we could be in for some major fun.

zfw

[lexxity]

Apparently even under-wired bras set it off, so we could be in for some major fun.



Turns out that zips on skirts set them off too. I was repeatedly wanded the other day for having a zip on my skirt!

[Ian Brooks]

Sorry Lexxity not much you can say to that

I`ll get me coat

Ian

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

Now thats strange, i was ASSURED by some of our brave boys and girls that it was a DfT requirement and not a MAN 'thing' . .. quelle surprise . .

'or i shall take off me belt an' by thunder . .me trousers will fall down' - Mr Hardwood, noted Industrialist and father of Lady Amy Hardwood.

[IB4138]

the machines have been recently made more sensitive hence the need to get you to strip so that you do not set the thing off.

If not a DfT requirement this is scandalous and airport management should be brought to book for this by the DfT.

[ACCMan]

This IS a DfT directive. I've seen the TranSec documentation.

[Ringwayman]

easyJet is bringing forward it's expansion - it's now from 21st May rather than from August.

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

in that case i hope its being implimented at our other major airports, my sympathies with all the security staff faced with indignant crews spouting 'zees duz not 'appen at eeethrow' and becoming deliberately beligerant before they've even got on their planes!

TMD

[Trash_Hauler]

So I read in Plane Talk that our staff deli is returning... "Oooh goodie" I thought until I read a bit further on. It is to be located on North Road just opposite north gate security checkpoint. It is to be operated by a company called Willow Catering. I thought then... "hey, there's already a stupidly overpriced buttie.. er.. fish and chips van there" and then it hit me... THAT IS THE NEW STAFF "DELI". What a freakin joke. THIS is what the airport management really thinks of us. But hey, Muirhead is a fat Geordi t**t anyway so perhaps we will see him lined up in the rain and wind waiting for his nice healthy baguette or salad option. Shyeah... right!

[Momentary Lapse]

He has his food delivered. He sent his licquorice allsorts back to WHS once because they were soggy. True.

[GavinC]

Interesting link:

Manchester Airport Terminal 1 - Aedas provides international architectural, design, property and surveying services worldwide including the United Kingdom, North & South America, Central & Eastern Europe, Asia and the Middle East ? Aedas.com (http://www.aedas.com/Europe/ManchesterAirportTerminal1/)

Some actual investment in something that would make everyone's life easier??

[moleerie]

Quote
"Maybe if Manchester Airport Group spent more time, effort and money on providing passengers with an airport and not a shopping mall, maybe more passengers and airlines would be inclined to use Manchester?"

Surely it would be easier to lay a runway at the Trafford Centre. They already have the shops and parking spaces which is all MAG are interested in.

[Momentary Lapse]

They have just widened the M60...

[mickyman]

Having read previous posts regarding shops at Manchester - has
anyone got a list of ideas for the management to consider - that
would enhance the ability of the airport to encourage new
business in these economically 'difficult' times ?
Its one thing to complain about poor this and poor that but another
to bring ideas to action.
Any ideas that are plainly (sorry) Mr Angry reactions would not
be helpful.We would all like to work in a fantastic enviroment but
'golden days' thinking is the brain making rosie!

Perhaps if someone here comes up with worthwhile ideas they
may wish to apply for a suitable job within the boundaries - or not!

MM

[turtlecontroller]

Jewish Telegraph reporting (on their front page lead article) that EL AL are soon to announce a twice weekly 767 service! The article seemed well researched with commentary on Thomsonfly's withdrawal due to losing their subsidy from the Israeli Tourist Board for alledgedly failing to adequately promote Israel as a tourist destination aswell as Jet2's new service.

[Betablockeruk]

Surely it would be easier to lay a runway at the Trafford Centre

Yes, it's called Barton. I think it's been suggested before. Sometime back in 1930 :}

[The96er]

Manchester Airport Terminal 1 - Aedas provides international architectural, design, property and surveying services worldwide including the United Kingdom, North & South America, Central & Eastern Europe, Asia and the Middle East ? Aedas.com (http://www.aedas.com/Europe/ManchesterAirportTerminal1/)


I take it this is the replacement for 'B' pier ? and if so, when do they intend to start construction ?

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

Ah yes i remember the staff 'deli' . .helpfully open from 0700 to 1500 . .greatly of use to all of us working the 18-06 shifts if we were peckish in the night! NATURALLY good hours for the MAG Suits to feed from the trough though . . how considerate of them.

I think the 96er might have designs on bulldozing the whole of B Pier and starting again . .if any further 'improvements' are made to its Operational capabilities i may market it as a Crystal Maze tourist attraction . . follow meeee TOOO THE CRYSTAL DOME!!!

TMD

[Trash_Hauler]

More fine words from the Masked One.....:D

[roverman]

I hope the EL AL return does come about. They flew MAN-TLV for many years from 1985 until about 2001 when the political situation in Israel was deterring visitors. MAN serves the UK's second largest Jewish community, and a link by the Israeli flag carrier will perhaps have a higher market profile than a UK carrier. It does bring additional security issues, of course.

[kala87]

Apparently El Al (LY) have also just announced a daily ex Sat Tel Aviv - Luton rotation with 763's. LTN is convenient for the very large Jewish community in north London. So maybe the MAN flights are part of a general route expansion by LY.

Yes, LY have very stringent security requirements.

Are TUI continuing with their MAN-TLV flights though? I have heard they are likely dropping LTN-TLV.

[Ringwayman]

The only TLV flights this summer will be by Jet2. El Al have stated (through a spokesman) that they have no plans to serve MAN in the near future. It's in the Jewish Chronicle article about the LTN expansion.

[BDLBOS]

I don't think anyone has an issue with any airport having shops, it is a good way of generating revenue. The problem is at MAN, they have lost the plot regards running an efficient and effective airport. Maybe retail is the biggest earning part, but it is totally dependant on me and my fellow pax. My last visit into MAN was on US in Feb. No toilets in baggage claim! Departing T2 is like a rabbit warren with poor signs and those god damned shops thrown here there and everywhere. It looks like the person who designed the layouts for every terminal at MAN, never set foot inside an airport - EVER. They will not attract more passengers with what they have done to the place, and remember more PAX = More shoppers!! That needs explaining to the management, because they have turned the award winning, easy to use airport into a cluster ****.

I am an overseas visitor who visits MAN five or six times per year. I have used the airport consistently for the last 25 years, and the present state is sad to see. I do not know the present Management personally, but from what they have done to the airport, I am not confident that MAN will get any better.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Yup, I can agree with all of that.

The 'MAG' Group have also ruined 'EMA' - East Midlands over the last 11 years or so!!

Even some of the regional airports in the UK have 'More modern' facilities.

I don't know how MAN handles all the pax with the terminal facilities it has at the moment?

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

Many thanks TH, its nice to hear from fellow warriors for truth! . . along similar lines it was nice to see our resident pussy-cat snuffling about Olympic house the other day . .for those not in the know it was revealed recently that certain high ranking execs at EGCC were of the considered opinion that the reason that office space wasnt 'selling' was due to the presence of said cat having 'adopted' the building (lets face it Cats choose their own homes not the other way round!) . . . Plot? Lost? OH yessss

TMD
(remember, you havnt seen me, . .you dont know me .and this conversation NEVER occured!)

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Oh Dear is the 'resident cat' putting off people spending their money - And paying the 'EGCC' Fat cats their OTT bonuses!!

We better recruit some more cats then!!

[Bagso]

The problem with the Airport Management is that they are not accountable to anyone with any teeth ?

The 10 local councils based in the NWest who are the only shareholders appear detached from anything that the board actually does, they never criticise in any way shape or form ! Quite why they allowed MAG to buy and invest into East Midlands, Humberside and dare I say Bournemouth at what appears to be the expense of the core product Manchester is beyond me !

How supporting these investments promote and help business and passengers in the North Of England totally escapes me.....

Manchester itself certainly appears to have gone downhill since MAGs inception and in my view these purchases were a complete and utter strategic balls up !

Even the local press ie The Manchester Evening News which should fill this vacuum is lame in terms of challenging the airport management ! :ugh:

[mickyman]

Bagso

I think the problem with MAG is they have 'spotter' thinking.
They see themselves as a big player in the industry on a par
with BAA - hence the ruminations about buying Gatwick.
Operations wise it is a private company under a psuedo gize
of council shareholding interests.

If you spread the money too thin then the result is a weakened
all - no good to anyone.This stagnation is what we are seeing at
the present - and if you dont divvy the shareholders well, it leads
to the break-up of the alliance.ie A totally Private company will
emerge as the best way forward.

Whopee! bonuses for all (management)for a job well done.

MM

[AldiAl]

Anyway TMD, I think they should rename it Whiskas House!

And whilst they're at it get a new CEO....Tom Cat!!


AldiAl :)

[Ian Brooks]

purrfect lol

MAG should IMHO stick to MAN and invest all the money from the sale of EMA etc into getting us back to a world class airport

Ian

[philbky]

Absolutely.

When Manchester was focussed on preventing government takeover, then on gaining routes in the face of BEA/BOAC resistance; when the management's aim was to build a network of services with a range of carriers and encourage passengers by means of an excellent experience at the airport the airport survived, grew, prospered and was an asset the staff and the genera lpopulation could be proud of. In those days (and they didn't finish that long ago) the management were dedicated to making a profit from giving the customers (both passengers and airlines) a first class operation and the core was AVIATION.

Many of the middle and senior managers were aviation professionals of long standing, either home grown or the best the airport could afford to bring in.

Now the management is at one remove from direct control by the Councils and seems to be dominated by bean counters. Shops, offices, franchises, warehouses and just about everything else seem to come before giving passengers a pleasant passge through the terminals and though the transport access, the airside facilities and the range of destinations would have only been fantasy 30 years ago, somewhere in the last 10 years or so the primary purpose of the operation seems to have been forgotten in the race for buyouts of other airports and the establishment of secondary income streams.

There is nothing wrong with buying other airports or with secondary income streams being sought when the raison d'etre for the operation comes first.. Currently, at Manchester, it seems to come well down the list.

[Suzeman]

Top summary of the situation, philbky.:D

Keep up the good work

Suzeman

[Ian Brooks]

Good afternoon Suzeman, off on your travels again tomorrow? see you when you get back

Ian

[mantug01]

A lot of the property at the airport is empty, commonwealth house is a joke with it's huge 'Offices to let' banner across the roof.

The leasing costs for even the worst accomodation around the airport is sky high. The resident pigeons have nicer places to live than the staff. And you've got to know a secret handshake if you need a repair done any time within a year.

A least the passenger areas are starting to look nice in T1 and T2 (until it rains then the roof will leak again) as a passenger and staff member it is slowly coming a nicer enviroment to work in.

Plus...since the new rule to remove your belt came into effect i've not been asked once to remove it!

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

ah yes i must see about joining the Lodge that allows you to get some sort of maintenance work carried out . . . remember the password 'the silibant owl hoots in the night . .' and the reply 'the ill-built tower trembles mightily at the butterfly's passage'. Works every time with Terminal Control . .however just remember that any faults with airbridges are 'operator fault' . . heaven forbid the airport have to take responsibility for the EXTREMELY dodgy controls our poor chaps/esses are forced to work with to safely dock your aircraft . .(anyone remember the T2 Kangaroo Hop? B777s WATCHOUT We're comin for ya!!!)

I humbly propose that anyone who wishes to show support to our feline hero of Olympic house makes loud or certainly stroppy 'meiowing' noises anywhere near certain 'un-believers' . .!

'they seek him here, they seek him there . . . .. '
TMD

[The96er]

I see they've found a spare 2sqft of unused space next to gate 50 in T3 and built another WHSmiths !!

Actually TMD, the airport did admit responsibility when Airbridge 47 connected with the SN Brussels that night at a speed only just slower than the speed of light.

[emaint2003]

EMA was bought with huge amounts of debt by MAG, so much that there was a complete financial straight jacket put on EMA management. MAG even managed to kill off the new terminal that was going to be built for about 40m. There was lots of talk about this terminal, design teams were appointed then MAG killed it. Now we have a scenario where lots of EMA staff on the chopping block to fund the boys in MAG's egos re LGW and an aiport in Scotland. Talk about caring for your communities and staff! Look how much money EMA had made in the last 8 years, where has it all gone straight up the A50/M6 to MAN.

[Bagso]

"Look how much money EMA had made in the last 8 years, where has it all gone straight up the A50/M6 to MAN".

...well if thats the case I for one am not sure where it has actually been spent !

But that is the problem, there does not appear to be any accountabilty or transparency. Has anybody on here ever seen any minutes on the shareholders meetings ? Any links would be welcome

If this operation was run as were a "proper" private company with individual shareholders challenge them but as all the share holders are the local councils it appears on the face of it to be a closed shop !

[Trash_Hauler]

'The silibant owl hoots in the night . .' Duly noted.

The way in which certain Geordie airport XEO's (who ate all the pies?) surround themselves with "yes men" is simply astounding. I saw The Fat One just the other day gracing us with His presence in T3 landside and he must have had at least 6 hangers on with him! AMAZING!
Now that bmi has decided to bugger off to the Promised Land that is London Deathrow... His lackeys and Him were perusing the 16 now useless check in desks above the Spar. I wonder if they might yank them out and put in yet another WHSmiths? Only time will tell.

[brian_dromey]

Oh, come on guys. There is an awful lot of bit**ing and moaning going on. The fact is that MAN is a regional airport. It's main competitors, in terms of passenger pools are the London airports, Paris, Amsterdam. MAN just can't get the same yield that these airports can. MAN does not have the benefit of a large, single and strong home airline. BD was the best hope of that, and they couldn't make it work. This may be more reflective of BD than MAN though.

To me it makes sense for MAN to diversify into LGW and/or Scotland. This is good for the group and ultimately MAN. So quit bit**ing about a few new shops and stained carpets. MAN was never a KUL or SIN of this world and the UK airline reality means no regional European airport ever will be. But it's fair to say it's a hell of a lot better than most UK airports, let alone regional airports.

Brian.

[philbky]

Brian,

From 1970 the airport has grown continually both physically and in terms of passenger numbers. From then until the late 1990s, in many senses it was a building site with an attached runway yet the passenger experience - and that of the airlines - was generally pleasant.

At a meeting I attended in 1983 with airport management, politicians, tourism professionals and airline representatives (both operators at MAN and not) the attendees could only come up with one substantial complaint about the passenger experience viz: only one bank, (Midland Bank) and only open normal banking hours. Apart from that the airport, which was winning award on top of award and seeing continuous passenger growth, was held up a a shining example of how an international airport should be run - and not only at that meeting.

In 1993 I had my company run an Airports Environment Conference in the then brand new T2 with a major trade magazine and, whilst the airport supplied speakers and a little hospitality, they were not sponsors..

With representation from over 100 major airports around the world, including all of those you name, the magazine took the trouble to survey the delegates for their view of the airport in areas ranging from environment to use of space, passenger experience (over 90% of the delegates flew into the airport, many of the rest used the brand new station) amenities and the general ambience.

In all areas it scored in in the top two out of eight ratings from poor, through acceptable to exemplary. The written comments many appended were summed up as "glowing".

Putting Manchester down by referring to it in the following terms:
The fact is that MAN is a regional airport. shows either a lack of research or just pure prejudice.

As of the end of 2008 with reduced passenger numbers, it was the fourth busiest airport in the UK with 21.2 million passengers. No "regional" UK airport comes near.

It had the third highest movements of all UK airports and, in 2007 - the last year for which I have figures - it was the 22nd busiest airport for international passengers in the world - it had reached 17th in 2005.

The percentage of scheduled passengers as opposed to IT and GA passengers rose from around 40% in 1992 to 63% in 2007 and Manchester still offers more destinations and direct routes than any other single UK airport.

If it is a regional, it is ahead of any other regional in Europe in terms of numbers and facilities.

So quit bit**ing about a few new shops and stained carpetsIt's a lot more than that I'm afraid. In terms of passenger experience, in the past - say up to the late 1990s - extensions, reworking and maintenance were done with the minimum disruption to passengers. Signing was comprehensive, explicit and showed what was where. The terminals were light, airy, had plenty of seating and outside views both before and after security. There was a good range of shops, banking facilities had been upgraded and the hours changed to suit the passenger but the facilities were far from the current "in your face" obstruction they form today.

Then certain layers of management started to retire changing the way the airport was run.

The founding of MAG in 2001, whilst from one perspective can be viewed as a logical business decision, from another can only be viewed as a disaster from the point of view of Manchester Airport itself. The focus shifted from making profits through providing access to air transportation to making profits from a range of diverse and sometimes unconnected business activities.

What real benefit are Bournemouth and Humberside to the local councils in the erstwhile Greater Manchester when the airport which was once the jewel in the crown of the City and then the County is, from a passenger's point of view, an ugly mess of security, shopping malls and uncomfortable holding areas?

EMA has seen success as a freight centre - so has Manchester - but the debt incurred and used to buy EMA could have been better spent at MAN, extending the rail line to the World Freight Centre and offering a truly multi modal centre, using the expertise in freight handling to attract operators (including those at EMA) and give employment to the citizens of the stakeholder local authorities.

I would dispute that Manchester needs a strong home airline. Boston, Vancouver, Los Angeles, Miami, Dusseldorf, Milan, Munich, have all prospered in recent years without a strong, home based carrier by attracting a range of operators serving a wide variety of routes - often with two or more in direct competition.

The management at MAN need to use the current downturn to draw breath and rethink their strategies. They made the wrong decision about LCCs and have seen traffic (mine included) both drift away and cease to grow as the "new" travellers have used, particularly, Liverpool.

T1 is, as far as I'm concerned, depressing, .T2 has not been regularly upgraded. At 16 years old, were it an hotel, it would have just had its third revamp and T3 is a cramped joke - the old domestic pier was a far more enjoyable experience.

I well remember the doom and gloom of 1973/4 - but the traffic bounced back.. 1981/2 saw similar times as did the early 1990s. 9/11 wasn't as bad but each time the airport grew in the aftermath.

This time the challenges are bigger but I'm not convinced the management is aviation minded and focussed enough to benefit from the end of recession when it eventually comes, in the same way as in the past.

In fact, freight and the viewing park apart, I'm at a loss to credit them with anything new that the current directors have overseen from start to finish that has REALLY worked since the inception of MAG.

[brian_dromey]

I agree with much of what you say, it is very true.

I quite like T1, I have to say. Now that the renovation is closer to being complete it looks very nice, modern and comfortable. It is a shame the seating area is in such a dark corner though. This is the terminal I use most often and I have seen a huge improvement over the past 12 months, in terms of the experience. There are short security queues, plenty of check-in space and the layout is reasonably logical now the renovation is closer to completion.
T2, I don't use, so I can't comment, really.
T3 is a horrible place, I avoid it wherever possible and the current shuttle-bus or hike is a joke. I can only hope that there is something planned for that area, the food/snack options are a joke.

But, in general, you can arrive by train reliably at MAN, there are no terrible delays due to congestion and there are a wide variety of destinations to choose from. What MAN has suffered from is that no legacy or network airline has dedicated a hub and spoke model from there, at least in any long-term strategic way. I suppose this makes MAN a spoke in itself and thus MAN has to compete with other airports for each flight, thus driving down the money made from each flight. Mind you, LGW and the Scottish airports suffer from the same problem, so I wonder if LGW would actually bring anything new to MAG.

Brian.

[philbky]

Not used T1 for 12 months but will be through there in June so hope to see a vast improvement.

[Mr A Tis]

With Air Berlin taking over TUI Fly (HLX) Loco city flights from this years winter schedule, does anyone have any idea if Air Berlin will keep on the Cologne & Stuttgart routes ex MAN ? Lets hope so, esp as AB allow you to connect onwards rather than the point to point of HLX.

[Trash_Hauler]

Noticed a PK had a full emergency divert last night around 2230. Watched it land and I must say it was rather eventful. Landed on 05L And used every bleedin foot of runway available to him! Must have been still doing well over 80 knots past stand 50! Wasn't so certain he would get it reeled in on time, but well done he did! The a310 doesn't seem to stop so well whilst heavy and on one engine!

In other news, the "staff deli" remains overpriced and is not staying to the officially announced opening hours of 0700-1800. There's a shocker!

[roverman]

Came in with one engine out, and so I guess could not use reverse thrust due to assymetric effect, hence longer roll out.

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

by the time he was level with stand 50 he was still motoring along, blue lights in hot pursuit! . . definately sounded a bit 'odd' whilst taxiing in. . .

staff 'deli' not opening at advertised hours? how odd! They will do the old B.R trick of opening it only at times when no-one can get to it (Operational staff of course) and then using under-use as an excuse to close it!!!

T-M-D

[HOODED]

The PK A310 last night was the PK776 LBA/ISB. Given AP-BEC was damaged at LBA by ground handling impact, diversions due fog/Xwinds and now this I can see PK moving these flights back to MAN. They have not had a great start ex LBA. Flights all seem to be full though.

Anyone know what happened to the pax?

[Spotter LBA]

I wouldn't be too sure about PIA moving all the flights from LBA to MAN. Why would they increase flights at LBA just to move them back. Pasengers that are using the LBA service do so because they don't want to be traveling from Yorkshire over to MAN. Yeah there are some operating problems at LBA due to runway length and that it is affected by fog in Winter more often than most other UK airports due to its height above sea level but damage to ac by ground handling vehicles can happen at any airport!

[flybar]

The PK A310 last night was the PK776 LBA/ISB.


Having taken off from LBA presumably lost power in flight? Have we got a true story as to what happened after takeoff?

[BYALPHAINDIA]

I bet the A310 was like a 'Flying Brick' going along 05L - STOP!!

PIA had an excellent start at LBIA, I think for the first few months
incident - free alot of the inbounds were at least 35 mins early.

The Balkan 154's always floated over the 'PAPI'S' and landed half-way down the runways and still stopped safely!!

[chiglet]

One major "gripe" with MAN...
I arrive for work [shifts] at 0615, 1345 and 2145, and have to use either the stairwell from T1 CP, or the lift from level 5...not a problem. What IS the problem?
It's the "Security Staff" blatently puffing away on their fags... in a clearly marked "NO SMOKING area". [Either on the balcony from level three to the stairwell, or just by the lift to level 5/arrivals corridor]
You say something to them, and it's "Sod off....", and if you dare to say anything whist wearing a MAPLC ID card......It's "I've got your name sunshine, and don't you forget it".

[spannersatcx]

report it higher up.

[Momentary Lapse]

Get their names off their passes too! Does the level 3 balcony still stink of p?

[chiglet]

report it higher up.

Funnily enuf, a colleague did this. For a couple of "Dry" days, the "said" areas were clear....but come the rain.......
Having said that,
Why the chuff should "Fare paying Pax" endure a "hike" [usually in the wet], (after all it is Manchester) from the Station, T1 car park, etc to Terrminal 3....and vice versa...... eg
I've just arrived from the US....[as a US Citizen] and I have been "advised" that there is a Direct Train Service into Manchester....
What are my...
a, First impressions, and
b, my recommendations to my friends, when I get home?
"Best Airport in the World"...........:{:ugh:

[BHX5DME]

Pax - 1,359,056 down 18.42% (or 296k less than March 2008)
Movements - 14,180 down 14.53% (or 2,410 less movements than March 2008)
Freight - 8,874 down 38.35%
Pax Rolling 12m - 20.4m !
Pretty Grim

[conradmueller]

With Air Berlin taking over TUI Fly (HLX) Loco city flights from this years winter schedule, does anyone have any idea if Air Berlin will keep on the Cologne & Stuttgart routes ex MAN ? Lets hope so, esp as AB allow you to connect onwards rather than the point to point of HLX.
As you know Air Berlins, you are bound to have this service withdrawn. All routes but Paderborn have been stopped. And Paderborn is only kept on due to contracts with the Army.

[mickyman]

BHX5DME

Getting to be more like a 'regional' airport with every
passing month!

MM

[Centre cities]

The drop in the statistics mentioned are in line with almost all of the UK airports, including those down south, it is not particular to Manchester.

Manchester is still the premier UK airport outside the London catchment area and will continue to be so.

It is not immune the economic downturn.

My money is on strong growth in 18 months time.


Centre cities

[Ringwayman]

Pax figures are likely to be downward for a while longer yet - the scheduled side of things was down around 12% in March, with charter pax down 30%. We still have a 4 months of summer flying when XL would have been carrying large amount of pax and a reduced combined fleet of First Choice and Thomson. So I'd imagine a bare minimum 20% to 25% fall in numbers for charters. There's also a bit of a hit to be taken on long-haul scheduled to look forward to. On the plus side, we have the mythical extra 300,000 pax from Ryanair to look forward to this year plus the 3rd U2 A320 from May, plus suggestions that a 4th one is due in winter?

[Momentary Lapse]

Haha, Rowena got out at the right time. Good girl!

What's the difference between Geoff Muirhead and Gordon Brown?

Nothing: unelected, unwanted, past his retirement date, presiding over decline and dithering. Come the revolution...

[TURIN]

What are you babbling about MS?

GB was elected MP for the Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath seat with 58% of the vote.

In the UK we do not 'elect' prime ministers we elect MPs who are then elected by their party to be top MP. (agreed not necessarily in that order). ;)

All the parties do it, end of. :ugh:

Before you ask, no I do not agree with many of the current government policies, but I'm sick to death of hearing the same old tired "he wasn't elected' cobblers from the Daily Liar reading brigade.

[Momentary Lapse]

Not babbling, comparing.

Not elected to the position of Prime Minister, i.e. when chosen to lead the Labour Party (by intimidating the other potential candidates not to stand) he should have then called a General Election to let the electorate have their say. He bottled it at that point, and has persisted in leading us further down a garden path of his choosing, still without allowing the British (in fact mostly English, but I won't go there) people to have their say on whether they want him to, or not.

Like Geoff, chosen by a cabal of councillors, yet the majority stakeholders in the PLC, which these days are the banks, are given no say. Ditto the staff or customers, though I accept they rarely get a say in any other organisation either.

More importantly, they're both leading their respective organisations down the toilet without anyone being able or willing to stop them.

Rowena=Blair - can read the wind and got out in time with reputation intact (ish). :D:D:D

[philbky]

Momentary lapse, or should that be Permanent lapse?

From the MAG website:

Our shareholders are:
The Council of the City of Manchester - 55%
The Borough Council of Bolton - 5%
The Borough Council of Bury - 5%
The Oldham Borough Council - 5%
The Rochdale Borough Council - 5%
The Council of the City of Salford - 5%
The Metropolitan Borough Council of Stockport - 5%
The Tameside Metropolitan Borough Council - 5%
The Trafford Borough Council - 5%
The Wigan Borough Council - 5%

Seems to me that comes to 100% - so how do you arrive at the following:

yet the majority stakeholders in the PLC, which these days are the banks, are given no say.and what sort of lunatic would give any bank any say in a business today?

I hold no brief for the way the airport is currently managed, but you are babbling.

[Cargocat]

There is a difference between Stakeholder and Shareholder.
:rolleyes:

[ManofMan]

BHX5DME

Getting to be more like a 'regional' airport with every
passing month!

MM

MickyMan,

How would you define regional ????

Ta

[mickyman]

Manofman

Not capital

MM

[pwalhx]

So by that definition Frankfurt is a regional airport then?

[mickyman]

It is an airport of a region in Germany not
being a capital city.

MM

[philbky]

Cargocat said:

There is a difference between Stakeholder and Shareholder.

Ever heard of teaching your grandmother to suck eggs?

Any stake the banks have would be in the form of loans. Those loans do not (and should not) allow them to have a say in the running of an "arms length" local authority owned operation.

The other "stakeholders" are, in fact, the airport's customers - leasing space, buying gate and ramp time or providing the airport with an on site service - none of whom have, or should have, a say in the running of the company.

If the shareholders aren't doing a good job of overseeing the way the company is managed, it is up to the council tax payers in the Metropolitan Boroughs to have their councillors take up the matter and for the so called stakeholders (customers) to complain or vote with their feet.

[Cargocat]

I would suggest you read your own post before trying to belittle anyone.

My Grandmother was well off enough as not to resort to sucking eggs, She employed her own egg suckers.:mad:

You posted the make up of the shareholders of MAPLC whereas the comments were about the stakeholders which due to the level of borrowings by MAPLC includes the banks.

As for babbling you seem to take the top spot.

Good day to you Sir

[Momentary Lapse]

Thankyou Cargocat.

I specifically referred to stakeholders not shareholders for a reason.

It has been known for years that the shareholders have no teeth, happy to take the dividends without any real governance.

Once MAPLC mortgaged its debt-free business to buy EMA and BOH by over 100% of MAN's capital value, the banks rightly insisted on a say in how the company was run. They did this principally by replacing the existing FD with Philip Ridal, a City of London type, who would bring some semblance of competence to the previously amateurish corporate governance standards.

The other stakeholders (tenants, airlines, retailers etc.) absolutely have a say in how the company is run, not least because their own businesses depend on MAN being run well. Never mind the council tax payers: many of them only fly once a year, if at all, and some of them have no idea how a company should be run.

Following my own logic, perhaps the way forward for MAPLC is for the councils to sell their shares to airlines, retailers etc. who might have more idea how to run it well, not to mention a business-led motive to do so. Just a thought.

[mickyman]

Momentary collapse

'They did this principally by replacing the existing FD with Philip Ridal, a City of London type, who would bring some semblance of competence to the previously amateurish corporate governance standards.'


.........and he's doing a bloody good job too!!

You forgot to add?

MM

[Momentary Lapse]

I deliberately didn't add it, because although he did a damn fine job while he was there (specifically improving the company's debt rating, allowing their interest rate to be significantly lowered, reducing costs) he left a long time ago, lured back to the bright lights of the big city. A loss to the company, certainly.

[ManofMan]

mickyman...

Just to clarify, you are saying that the likes of Atlanta, New York, Chicago, Houston, Shanghai etc etc are all regional airports.....and if thats the case your first comment of :

Getting to be more like a 'regional' airport with every
passing month!

is total $hite !!! because by your reasoning it always has been and always will be a regional airport, coz Manchester aint the captial of England.

Unless i am getting confuddled !!!

[mickyman]

Manofman

You are

MM

[ManofMan]

Nice reply MM, well thought out, good points and a fantastic argument....just what i have come to expect from such an informed poster....again...well done.

[Ametyst2]

Manchester cannot be compared with New York, Atlanta, Houston, Shanghai or even Munich. These are hub airports. Nobody hubs at Manchester anymore it is a "Spoke" for BA, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, Swiss, Emirates, Qatar, Continental et al.

Manchester is a regional airport, a major one at that. Remember that the above airports do not have the high proportion of charter or lo-cost passengers that Manchester has.

[andybsei]

Jeez..what's going on on here recently, it's all sniping.
Anyone got any genuine rumours?
Here's my two pence worth...EK to introduce First Class on the MAN route...discuss.

[philbky]

So Cargoman and Momentary Lapse, you believe that business that partially depend on their leased property at/services to the airport should have a say in how the company is run.

Give me strength. On that basis, as a tax payer I should have a personal say in how every government department is run, every shop in the Trafford Centre should have a say in how Peel Holdings does its business and, within aviation, your idea for Manchester should apply to every airport worldwide.

For decades the airport has been run for the benefit of, firstly, the City ratepayers, in the last 35 years for the benefit of those in first the GMC, then the Metropolitan Boroughs - and still is.

The current management isn't doing very well but having management by committee turns racehorses into camels.

Selling the airport would lead to an even worse performance. Your "stakeholders" know bu**er all about running an airport.

British corporate history is littered with companies succesful in one discipline making an absolute shambles of businesses in other disciplines which they have taken over on the basis that "management is the same in any industry".

As for banks being more involved - don't you read the papers or watch the news on TV?

What is needed are Councillors like the long lamemted Gordon Thomas who had the airport at heart, kept the management under close scrutiny and wasn't afraid to scrutinise, praise and criticise in equal measure.

Gordon Sweetapple once said to me that the airport had a reputation for good management because it was managed by an excellent mix of industry professionals, professional local government officers who had learned about aviation from their earliest days and was overseen by councillors determined to make the most of their asset and both improve and develop it on a continuing basis, something currently that seems to have diminished and would be totally lost if sold to a faceless company from elsewhere.

[mickyman]

Manofman

It seems that Manchester is the center of your universe.
It is a large regional airport - my first comment which I
scrubbed was to be:'spoke not hub' perhaps I should
have gone with it,so you could better understand?

Ametyst2

Your post is a wise one.

MM

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Here's my two pence worth...EK to introduce First Class on the MAN route...discuss.

...and with something rather big, I understand. :eek:

Well they've got to fly the buggers somewhere...

[Ringwayman]

Elsewhere it's thought of a 1 77W (3 class!) and 2 A332 (2 class). Either way, we're not talking a large increase in capacity.

Other news from today is Ryanair putting further expansion on hold till airport charges come down and with that, the number of pax they expect to carry will come down to 800,000 from the projected 1 million.

[Tulsablue]

The web site is up and running but has a name change for legal reasons.

You can book online or pay on the coach.

www.airportbycoach.com (http://www.airportbycoach.com/)

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

I muchly enjoyed the comment about Management by Comittee turning racehorses into camels . .superb (writes down to use himself later . .)!

Have we all been enjoying the 'Festival of Self-Congratulation' that is planetalk this month? So nice to see so many smiling faces standing around clapping each other on the back for a job well done by so many faceless workers beneath them . . well done all (scrapes irony and sarcasm off the wall).

Along similar lines i propose an alternate award ceremony . . Categories for this will include. . .

Most Bizzare Walking Route for Arriving Pax Award
Most Difficult to Find Sortation Chute for New Ramp Staff Award
Most Lengthy/Difficult Staff Entry Point Award
Most Distant Staff Car Park (By Postcode) Award
Departure Gate Most Obsured By Shops Award
Most Ignored Signage Award
Most Difficult Gate for Pax to Find Award
Most Inaccessable Gate for Disabled Pax Award (aka the Chris Bonnington Award for Terminal Design using Steps)
Longest Remote Bussing Departure (requiring sandwiches and toilet stop) Award
Most Lethal Airbridge Award (By Terminal).

Nominations on here by 1st May for announcment and Award Ceremony 5th May . . . Vote Pruners, its your right!!!

T-M-D(emocrat):E

[lexxity]

I'll start.

QUOTE]Most Bizzare Walking Route for Arriving Pax Award
Most Difficult to Find Sortation Chute for New Ramp Staff Award
Most Lengthy/Difficult Staff Entry Point Award - The hilarious "staff priority" channel in T3 departures. Hilariously takes around 15mins. Priority my @rse.
Most Distant Staff Car Park (By Postcode) Award - Staff West
Departure Gate Most Obsured By Shops Award - Gate 141
Most Ignored Signage Award - All in T3
Most Difficult Gate for Pax to Find Award - Gate 141.
Most Inaccessable Gate for Disabled Pax Award (aka the Chris Bonnington Award for Terminal Design using Steps) - Where to start with this one? Gates 3, 141-148.
Longest Remote Bussing Departure (requiring sandwiches and toilet stop) Award - Gate or stand? Gate is obviously 3.
Most Lethal Airbridge Award (By Terminal). Gate 44 without a shadow of a doubt, fcuking thing dropped out from under the door with nothing touching the drop bar! Door was only opened a crack and poof floor disappears! :eek:
[/QUOTE]

[Trash_Hauler]

But the money they saved by not fixing that airbridge was probably what paid for the world's smallest WHSmiths at Gtae 50. A wise investment some may say!

[MANFlyer]

Came in on an SQ328 last week absolutely packed to the rafters. They even had a fare paying pax in 16K, which is very unusual as 16H and 16K are always kept empty for the second tech crew they have on the MAN flights. The F.O. had to spend his time down the back when on his break. Sad to see this going down to 3 times a week next month.

After doing my fair share of pummeling the hole that is MAN these days, I have to say my last two arrivals have been extremely quick. OK last week off SQ328 I had hand luggage only, was off first as I was in row 16 and watched with amusement all pax in J go to 1L as I went to 2L alone knowing that's the way off at MAN. I was in the motor 10-12 minutes after disembarking.

Also stunned to see my arrival a couple of weeks earlier on LH from FRA and luggage arrived within 10 minutes of getting to the belt and I was out 20 mins after disembarking with checked luggage, which is the best I can remember in the last 15 years.

Just shows they can make it more user friendly if they try. The place is still a mess though and T1 is now horrible to depart from. I have a paticular hatred of being made to walk through a duty free shop when I have no wish to do so.

Here's my two pence worth...EK to introduce First Class on the MAN route...discuss.

Absolute bollox. End of discussion. ;)

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

The wheels have fallen off again . . .airports 'ChromaFusion' has been offline for 2 1/2 hours now . . no-one knows when aircraft are landing, where they are going or how many or IF there are any Wchr requests . . possibly because its the start of the long weekend? Shall we ask Geoff if we can have a new comp when he comes in on . ..erm . . TUESDAY?!!!

T-M-D

[Suzeman]

Well MAN Flyer, a different experience for me this time.

I have come back through T1 half a dozen times this year and have also experienced the quick baggage delivery from LH

But just a couple of days ago I had a bad experience. Arriving in T1 on Pier C after a particularly arduous trip, I just wanted to get home. But...

1 Inbound autowalks on Pier c u/s - surprise, surprise...:(

2 Major disaster - no Manchester Evening News in the dispensers..:}

3 IRIS system not working again - on approx 1/3 of my trips through the airport this is the case. The sign saying it is u/s is strategically placed so you go at least halfway down the channel and then have to backtrack and join the queue much further back than you would have done if the sign was at the entrance to the channel. HMI staff have no idea what is wrong with it as usual. :*

4 Bags should all be delivered within 30 mins of chox. At chox +28 the first bag arrives. Some bags get stuck on the belt and jam in the reclaim hall. Lots of bags are then stuck on the feeder belt from the sorting area. No one comes into the reclaim hall to sort it , so pax free the bags themselves. My bag arrives at chox +35. After all it is only a business class priority bag - and most business class bags on this flight seem to come on to the reclaim last. :*

5 At last out into arrivals and a lift into the T1 MSCP. One lift is u/s and large queues build up. :*

6 Not one of MA's Customer services staff seen during this experience.

Whilst some of this is not MA's fault, it IS their problem as most punters will feel they had a bad experience at Manchester and couldn't care a monkeys about who is responsible for what

So welcome to Manchester, the winners of the ACI Europe Excellence in Operations Award in 2008 in the 10-25 million ppa category.The award was made because of, as the judges said “its simple, innovative approach to attracting airlines”, and therefore seems to be nothing to do with service standards.

Hope all the delegates to the next ACI Europe Conference in Manchester in June have a better experience then I did.:}

Suzeman

PS T-M-D

1 Could you explain for us mere SLF what ChromaFusion is supposed to do when it is working?

2 Are you related to the MAN Ops Director? :}

[UFGBOY]

Just booked May 4th with open return £9-50... excellent...

website has glitch in that return journey times not showing... am sure just teethng problems...

[321go]

I heard Manchester got the ACI Award coz they are spending loads of money to host the ACI Europe Conference (at the same time as laying staff off). The award is not of course given on merit by the voting public but by a number of "well connected" people within ACI......You will probably find that the CEO of MAN is on the ACI Europe Board?.Scandal :=

Mmmm...ACI Service Quality - awarded to Manchester "for innovative ideas in attracting new business / airlines".WHICH ONES WOULD THEY BE?

Didn't they get rid of their sales team?? Now wasnt that a good innovative idea and what a difference that has made.I would have thought the Planners should have been first down the road?

They need to start spending money on Customer Service at Manchester rather than more concrete for ghost aeroplanes to park and speculating on buying airports elsewhere when they cant get it right on their own doorstep!.:ugh:

[Trash_Hauler]

Chroma Fusion is the system in which all airline operational info is input to. Things such as ETD's and ETA's, wheelchair requirements, gates and stands. Actual arrival and departure times. Chroma Fusion then links up with all the screens in the check in, departures and arrivals halls. It is in Chroma Fusion that belt assignments are given to the baggage loaders and baggage hall personnel. It is in ChromaFusion that all the automated information that you see over the check in desks and furthermore where the check in desk assignments are made. So without Chroma Fusion , you are pretty much screwed and are flying blind.

[steve platt]

Does anyone know if Air Livery are opening a new painting base at Man?
If they are it be more jobs and hopefully more movements.

[flybar]

From the Air Livery wesbite:


Air Livery are pleased to announce the expansion of their wide bodied capability with a new state of the art facility at Manchester Airport, United Kingdom.
Further details will be announced..........

23.03.2009

[bigMANofMAN]

Does anyone know if Air Livery are opening a new painting base at Man?
If they are it be more jobs and hopefully more movements.

They will allegedly be taking over the old BA hangar, about time it got
used for something good !!! Hopefully we will see some interesting colour
schemes come and go ????

bM

[steve wilson]

With the demise of Ringway Reports can someone please post a link to a good website that gives a full report of Manchester movements please?

Steve

[horatio_b]

Probably a better chance of a reply in Spotter's Corner

[one11]

With the demise of Ringway Reports can someone please post a link to a good website that gives a full report of Manchester movements please?


Its not as easy to read but try tasmanchester.com (http://www.tasmanchester.com/)
and then Click on Whats Due and/or Arrival Logs

[Suzeman]

Thanks Trash Hauler

I presume Chroma Fusion replaced AMOSS?

And shouldn't something as important as that have some redundancy and back up? :confused:

Suzeman

[TURIN]

And shouldn't something as important as that have some redundancy and back up?

You get your Binos out and see what comes over the Bolin on Finals. :ok:

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

Yes indeedy Suzeman, Amoss is dead, long live chroma! erm 'Backup'?!!! ahahahahahaha . . .classic. Think of the cost involved which could be better spent on fixing the travelators, lifts, escalators . .and new 'OFFICES TO LET' signs on buildings. Saying that they did manage to get it up and running by 2330L . . not bad considering it froze up and conked out at 1947L!!
T-M-D

[lexxity]

And shouldn't something as important as that have some redundancy and back up?

There you go assuming MAN has anything backed up. Do you not remember the power cut chaos? Back up, don't be daft. :ugh:

[BDLBOS]

I am guessing that the only back up MAN has is power supply for the shopping mall and tills. $$$$. Running an airport seems to be a secondary business.:ugh:

[Tight Seat]

Are Monarch moving to T2?

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Is their enough room for MON??

[The96er]

MON are strongly rumoured to re-sign with Aviance next year who now no longer operate from T2 which may influence the decision as to whether they move from T1 to T2.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Had a trip through T1 over the last few days, and much to my amazement, the miserable old dump is now actually quite nice airside. I never thought I'd say it but it was on the whole, nice...
But who came up with the idea for the baggage hall, of having a looped message repeatedly babbling on that you are now 'entering the baggage reclaim hall, make sure you have all your bags blah, blah, blah' After 25 minutes of listening to this voice every few seconds, with it's bizarre accent, it makes you want to scream.

[STATSMAN]

Have you heard the message in T2 baggage hall?

[Suzeman]

Ah yes - the message in the baggage hall in T1 with that awful voice. Yes it is quite enough to drive you to violence after a long trip :* I think it is activated by movement down the stairs from the passport area as it doen't seem to occur at regular intervals; frequent yes but not regular, which made it even more annoying when you thought it had stopped and then the bl**dy thing started again, and again and again.....

It really annoyed me earlier this year when I had arrived back tired out but a couple of visits ago it had stopped. Blessed relief. At last something unserviceable making the experience better!!

Alas on my last visit there she was, going again- blah, blah, blah BUT the volume seemed to be reduced. If you stood at the reclaim at the Customs end, you couldn't really hear it unless you tried hard. But of course, if you stand at the other end to get your bags first.....well that's your choice.

Perhaps someone could report the Airport under H+S legislation for it being an audio hazard, or under Human Rights laws as being torture?? :}

Why is it needed to be repeated so often? Most people are going to be in that hall for many minutes - often too many minutes - so a message every few minutes like the ones advising you to keep your baggage with you at all times would be more appropriate. And aren't there signs too?

As I've not arrived at any other UK airports recently - do they have similar messages repeated every few seconds ? If so, is it another DfT (or whatever they are called this week) initiative?

Answers on a postcard please.

Suzeman

PS
Not experienced the T2 message - it can't be worse can it? :eek:

[Skipness One Echo]

Terminal 3 arrivals has the same issue. Not even landside and already people are thinking "God I hate this place".....

Not bright....

[Mr A Tis]

In T3 there is that very nausiating female recording at the bottom of the escalator, landside up to the FLYBE checkin. "No baggage to be taken on this escalator" over & over again every few seconds. Dreadful !!:*
What's wrong with just a sign ? Punters will ignore both anyway, but please cut this noise pollution crap out.:sad:

[1545]

Sounds like MAN is now acting like a shopping centre as well as being one. You also get silly warnings at the end of escalators in Asda and Tesco's. There will be similar warnings as we're going up and down a/c steps next!

[Envoy320]

To be fair (unfortunately) to the MAG operators....if we didn't live in the pathetic society that we do whereby people have to be told not to fall over or trip up otherwise they will sue....we wouldn't need the announcements....

When the country reverts to a common sense society the noises will dissappear......

....in other words....they are here to stay!

[Ian Brooks]

Yes but they are a health and safety message


Ian

PS see you later Suzeman

[Envoy320]

I know it's a health and safety message....!!!

we never used to have them....people didn't just fall off escalators not knowing what to do when they come to the end of it....

it's common sense to walk off the end!!!

what i am saying is....unless people nowadays are "told" to walk off an escalator....they feel they have the right to compensation if they fall over and break their legs....

the real truth is....they should be told to get lost and banned from the premises for causing problems

[Ian Brooks]

Envoy 320

It`s the world we live in now, people will sue over anything if they think that they can earn some easy money. I find it rather tiring that people will always blame someone for their own carelessness/ stupidity so it is just a case of cover your back for everything.

Isn`t the message on the airport escalator more a security message, I know people are stood around talking and put their hand baggage down and then see their case and forget the carrier bag with newspaper or whatever lying in the middle of the hall.

Perhaps another CCTV and a sexy voice saying excuse me sir, yes you with the MUFC shirt on you have just left your bag behind lol!


Ian

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

Reminds me of the joke . .

Officer - 'Didnt you SEE the arrows?'
Motorist - 'I didn't even see the INDIANS!' . .(sorry 'Native Americans')

Seeing as how they are so frequently ignored i wonder how useful . .

A) Signs are to a BLND pax travelling alone (?)

B) Piped announcements are to a DEAF pax travelling alone (?!)

C) Final calls are in a 'Silent Terminal' (remember our beloved Airport Authority does not now allow more than a limited amount of final and/or name calls . .and none at all 'too early' - going once, going twice . . OFFLOADED!!) . . i suppose it DOES rather unpleasantly interrupt the Shopping Experience people are so enjoying . Sensible policies for a happier airport! :rolleyes:

:E
T-M-D

[MAN-OPS]

Seems only to get more 'computerised' announcements unfortunately.

The airport has apparently invested in a automatic final calls system, the system will make the call in English then in the language of the destination the flight is going to.

[MUFC_fan]

Perhaps another CCTV and a sexy voice saying excuse me sir, yes you with the MUFC shirt on you have just left your bag behind lol!


Is that where I left it? Wondered where it was...:}:ok:

[Ian Brooks]

Ha Ha! I wondered if you had noticed lol! I take it you had come up from London with the rest!

Ian

[MUFC_fan]

Haha, yes. From Hong Kong via Shanghai and London.:ok:

[MUFC_fan]

Emirates confirms lounge opening - Crain's Manchester Business (http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co.uk/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090416/FREE/904169981/1006)

Looking good and firms it all up!


“The move to Terminal One also gives Emirates the capability to fly in its flagship A380, of which the airline is the world’s biggest customer, with 58 on order,” added a spokesperson.


From the horses mouth!:ok:

[Envoy320]

I'm sure one day soon it will turn up.....probably on a diversion though at first....

maybe in a couple of years once the world picks up again we may see it as a regular sight!

[conradmueller]

No need to wait until AB takes over Tuifly.
Route to CGN is been suspended as Tuifly begins new 2 x daily flights CGN-VIE to tease Germanwings.
No wonder with departure times past 20.00 or on some days even 21.00 hrs and only 4 weekly departures left.:confused:

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

“The move to Terminal One also gives Emirates the capability to fly in its flagship A380, of which the airline is the world’s biggest customer, with 58 on order,” added a spokesperson. Splendid news re the super-jumbo, although i suspect they will only be able to park it on 12 or on the taxiway positions allocated to them on divert.
Has anyone seen (or indeed smelt) what the end of B Pier is like with 374 pax waiting to board on a hot summer day?! :uhoh:
Rumour i heard was that the Airport Authority was even concerned that in case of diverts, only 2 A380s could be handled at once, . . so what happens if QF and SQ divert their LHR flights into MAN . .and THEN the EK goes finals? . . could take some explaining to incredulous passengers! :eek:
'Sorry madam, your aircraft has diverted to BHX because we cant fit it in here at MAN' . . i can almost hear it now . . .:E

T-M-D

[Envoy320]

Lets be realistic.....it isn't THAT big an aircraft....it's not like a whole country load of passengers is diverting in.....

what if 3 x 747's diverted and maybe the odd 777.....

we wouldn't be having a debate about MAN handling the number of passengers then would we?

MAN is a fairly large airport, the passengers would fit.....I wouldn't overly worry about it!

[ManofMan]

Rumour i heard was that the Airport Authority was even concerned that in case of diverts, only 2 A380s could be handled at once, . . so what happens if QF and SQ divert their LHR flights into MAN . .and THEN the EK goes finals? . . could take some explaining to incredulous passengers!
'Sorry madam, your aircraft has diverted to BHX because we cant fit it in here at MAN' . . i can almost hear it now

99% of diverts that Manchester gets from LHR are splash and dash only...rarely do the passangers get unloaded in Man, they would simply leave the pax on the SQ and QF and unload the EK, that said the SQ and the QF both arrive into LHR in the very early hours and the EK wouldnt arrive into MAN until mid-day ish.

That said we are talking a typical case of modern day era bollox, discussing if we could handle 3 x A380's at once before we even handle 1 !!!, to add my 2 penneth i would think that the SQ or the QF would simply drop into mainland europe, cant remeber when the last time i say a SQ or QF divert in MAN ???.

[MUFC_fan]

Well, MAN doesn't handle any at the moment and hasn't yet.

IF SQ and QF were to divert and they maximum at MAN is 2, then one of those aircraft would divert somewhere else. This would happen because EK could be on its way and NATS would know exactly where the EK a/c was and how long it would take to get to MAN.

They would then be able to divert one of the other aircraft somewhere else.

It is unlikely to happen in the near future and I don't know how many A380s MAN can take at once.

[mickyman]

All

Is that paint still wet ?

MM

[MAN777]

I thought that they were limited to 1 A380 at a time.

[Envoy320]

it doesn't matter does it.....it's not coming yet!

[chiglet]

This would happen because EK could be on its way and NATS would know exactly where the EK a/c was and how long it would take to get to MAN.


Errmm, NO, NATS would NOT know where the a/c was.....until it entered UK airspace. Even when the Handling Agents used to ask ATC "Where is ABC123?", all we could do is say "He is estimating the Boundary at 1235"....even though the time was 1335 :confused:

[MUFC_fan]

You mean I can go on google Earth and see where the aircraft is (all be it 5 minutes delayed) yet NATS can't?! WOW!

Anyway, even if this was the case, they would know it's inbound time and the inbound times of the SQ and QF so it wouldn't make a difference.

[Scottie Dog]

Correct me if I am wrong, but did this particular discussion not start becuase of the implication that EK may be looking to operate the A380 into MAN on a scheduled service?

If that is the case then the airport authority would know that at a specific time there would be that particular flight on the ground and that there would only be space for one other A380 as a diversion. I presume that an aircraft diverting has a lower priority than a planned operation?

So, if the airport has a capacity for 2 A380s, and one is a planned operation then surely they will only accept the 1st aircraft that wants to divert.

Hey ho, off to work now, have a good day.

Scottie Dog

[Mr A Tis]

Conradmueller is correct HLX / TUI fly is no longer bookable MAN-CGN from 30th August.:* I agree, there have been some pretty horrible scheduling on this route, arriving CGN well after midnight, hardly business friendly times.
Looks like the 4 x week Stuttgart continues to end October, would be hardly surprising if that goes too, especially when Air Berlin take over the TUI city flights.:(
Wish somebody would pick up Berlin from MAN, one time we had Air Berlin, BA Connect & Jet2 all serving Berlin at the same time, now there are none.:(

[682ft AMSL]

The VLM timetable suggests MAN-LCY is now just 3 x daily. Has this been the case for a while?

[trumptonville]

7 most days but all originate in either Antwerp or Rotterdam and op via LCY

[chiglet]

A little addition to my previous post. IF the a/c had the right kit fitted, [acars etc] and a unit also had the right bits of kit, then yes you can follow any number of flights [Oceanic is one example] but most "mainstream" units can't, 'cos they ain't got the kit.
Hope that it clears the issiue somewhat

[AndyH52]

Sorry Trumptonville but if you check VLM's website both the timetable and booking engine are showing only 3 returns a day MAN - LCY andone flight on a Saturday. No flights are showing on a Sunday.

[TechProblem]

Regarding the A380 and B-Pier, until its re-built Manchester wont be handling any a380's until its done.

As your all aware it just isn't big enough, never mind the fact that if 2 airbridges where built on the end of B-Pier in its current state, it would collapse. :rolleyes::ugh:

Unless they use the end of C-pier (31/32) no a380 will be 'Handled' ie on turn around, for the foreseeable future.

As some of you will be aware, when/if B-pier is Demolished, before this there needs to be a airside link built between T1 and T2. This will take time. Nevermind the rebuild of a whole pier.

How long, i dont know....

TP

[MAN-OPS]

Emirates has said that there is a possibility of A380 ops from Feb 2010.

Stand 12 would be a A380 parking stand, when work to strengthen the apron finishes in October. However B pier wouldn't be able to cope with the amount of passengers trying to board a flight at the end of the pier also it wouldn't be safe to have 800+ passengers boarding in this area.

If the A380 was to park on stand 12, Passengers would be bussed from Gate 20 (T1 Airside Busing lounge) which can accommodate 1500+ passengers.

At the moment the only A380 stand at MAN is stand 62, there are plans to accommodate the A380 on stand 31 and 32.

[rutankrd]

ManOps

There are just 14 A380s in service and NONE have more than 490 seats

Singapore = 471
Emirates = 489
Qantas = 450

Manchester can and has handling these sort of numbers off of charter config 747s of the likes of Wardair,Travel City and those of Corsair for DECADES !

The Corsair birds have well over 500 seats!

However the current in service A388 aircraft are Elite class heavy and this alone makes them un-suited to regular Manchester operations.

As I pointed out elsewhere and some weeks ago in the case of Emirates use of the A380 in combination with an A332 would actually constitute a REDUCTION in available capacity out of Manchester compared to current high density 77W service levels
If the service remains at two flights a day with a single 2 class 332 and current three class 388 daily capacity is 767 total seats,

Breaking that down by class
First (A388) - 14 suites...................................................... ...14
Business Class - (A388) - 76 seats, (A332) - 27 seats.............. 103
Economy (Y) - (A388) - 399 seats, (A332) - 251 seats..............650

DAILY TOTAL 767

Current 2 class 77W operations max out at 854 seat per day (I use max out as they do sometimes send in a 3 class 77W whilst not selling the First Class reducing seating by 47 per flight)

Break down using two 2 class 77Ws
Business Class (Per flight 49).................................................98
Economy (Y) (Per flight 385).................................................770

So with one flight operated by a high density and one by a three claas (Unsold First)
you still get the following
DAILY TOTAL 807

Looking at these numbers and the demographics of the Manchester Traffic its clear that use of a current 388 in combination with a 332 actually equates to a reduction in capacity of 15% in the back of the plane whilst introducing some 14 VERY HIGH quality first into a known weak market.

Therefore imo its doesn't seem to be a beneficial change and those few Whale Jets are better deployed elsewhere where those first suites CAN be sold.

Now as to diversery risks and particularly multi aircraft diversions well lets analysis the situation.

1 Singapore operate two flight daily into LHR currently.

The evening flight is scheduled to land at 18.10z (Winter) and 19.10Bst (Summer)- Both of these times have a low risk of fogging , however a do carry a single digit snow risk in winter period. For snow it will have been forcast so extra fuel up lift before departure and hold until clear.If fuel becomes an issue its divert to Gatwick first choice (This has happened already)
The morning flight schedule is landing before 6AM (yes SQ has one of those night slots!).This is also a low fogging risk time believe it or not even deepest winter. Fogging risk increases around dawn some 2.5 hours later! Snow risk is similar to above so Gatwick or an on route FRA/AMS WILL be choice before MAN.
In the case of fog the aircraft are CAT3 and crews may want to make autoland if certified anyways.

2. Emirates the daily UAE1 arrives LHR around 11.30 to 12.30 again any early morning fog has usually lifted by then. Where w/x risk forcast again its extra fuel uplift and enter hold (Could hold for several Hours with sufficient fuel easily). So again a div to Manchester unlikely.
However Emirates do have the most potential to divert and its on a MED div on the three weekly Toronto. It would be a quick dip off load of Med splash of fuel and off again. No stress to ground handling and parking side on the 60s I suppose.

3. Qantas currently only 3 weekly into LHR to go 5 some time in June and daily from winter timetable.
They have dedicated on route FRA as diversion point for QF31.
In the case of fog the aircraft are CAT3 and crews may want to make autoland if certified anyways.

Current and planned facilities (Max 2 stands) are adequate for the risks of diversion for at least another twelve to eighteen months

Coming on stream Air France would likely choose SNN for TALC divs however Lufthansa might just surprise as they have been known to Med and Tec div into Manchester from time to time !

[GavinC]

I understand that Emirates will eventually operate 3 configs of the A380. The current low density config, a medium density and a high density for routes such as those into India.

by the time MAN see's a scheduled A380 from Emirates, I suspect we will be getting a med density aircraft. Should be fine compared to the high density 77's we have seen.

Hopefully the management at MAN will use this drop in passengers to take up the challenge of rebuilding Pier B to modern standards soon.

Gavin

[rutankrd]

I expect that Emirates will indeed operate future A388 aircraft in differing configs to the existing five.

However they will not receive any more until the Autumn and then take four upto Christmas time.
I expect these will allow the re-introduction of JFK and the second evening LHR flight (that operated in early spring) .

The Mid Density aircraft are likely in third batch of deliveries sometime 2010 earliest and are currently alloy ingot/plates, rolls of wire, sand and tube of epoxy resin!

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Heard whisperings this morning that Biman might be on the way back in the next few months. :uhoh:

Have they sorted out their fleet renewal ?

[MAN-OPS]

Biman do plan to return to MAN, but not until they have taken delivery of 777 / 787 aircraft which wont be for sometime, the only reason they dropped the MAN route was that they couldn't operate a schedule with the aging DC-10s which were regularly 12hr+ late.

With regards to seats on A380 aircraft, i was pointing out that B Pier is totally inadequate to operate such a aircraft, as not only would you have A380 on stand but god knows how many Ryanairs around also. MAN Airport used to park A330's on stand 12 and they only had 360 seats on and it was a nightmare at the end of the Pier.

[smudgethecat]

Any one heard the rumour EL AL are returning to MAN later this year?

[Envoy320]

If an A380 was diverting in to MAN and ended up on B pier....the pax in the terminal would either be disembarking and cntinuing by road OR would remain on board if the diversion was set to continue on to its destination relatively soon.....

rarely would they need to board at this gate.....

I really don't think it's a worry really.....

[rutankrd]

ManOps/Stoney Bridge Radar.

Biman might well take those Four most aged and cycle expended machines of CX and SQ however i actually expect the 787 order to be delayed/deferred and then canx- They have NO money !

The Diesel 10s are excluded from operating to the UK leaving just two A310s for the LHR service and as well as Manchester other mainland European routes have been suspended as a result.
The likes of Amsterdam and Frankfurt will surely take precedence over Manchester as will the regional routes to Kuala Lumpur/Singapore China and Japan when and if these B772 are taken on.
With four DC10s for replacement where will the new service availability actually come from even if they put the A310s back on regionals?

As to the A380 issue i think we actually agree that Manchester whilst declared A380 diversion ready is far from regular service prepared.
The old end of pier B what was once stand 15 however has long been the chosen spot for one off parking of oddball aircraft has it not ?

[mantug01]

The EK A380 is due to operate in MAN around Easter 2010. This is of course fully dependant on how the industry goes and and pax figures closer to the time.

The airfield may be declared as A380 ready, but the terminal is far from ready for a daily operation. While T1's departures lounge is looking very shiny downstairs its still the same baggage systems that fail every summer. Inbound baggage carousels cannot cope with more than 15 bags a minute without stopping with the auto sorters getting clogged up. You'd need at least two carousels to clear a full medium density EK A380.

The new stand 12 layout has plenty of room it is far from how it used to be, however it still is not connected to the terminal building (B Pier) this is allowing the airport to park the A380 where there are no wingtip issues i.e. around C Pier. All pax are still planned to be bussed from gate 20. So there will be no issue of overcrouding on the pier as the passengers will be in the main departure lounge.

[Ringwayman]

The 3 EK densities for the A380 are/were the 489 seat now in operation, the 517 seat - this is not a medium density as I believe they'll still have some F seats on board and the 644 seat HD which I believe is the variety that will appear here.

Thus, if they want to boost capacity by 200 seats or so a day, they can either schedule MAN as A380 + 77W or go three daily to 2 A332 and a 77W (a new early morning service, perhaps tied in with a 3rd EK wave at DXB?). Pax numbers are down this year but still about 80% full generally.

[EC-ILS]

Is there much demand between MAN and Bangladesh?

[jongeman]

There must be; there are large Bangladeshi communities in Oldham, Hyde, Manchester and Bradford amongst other places.

[Trash_Hauler]

With Swine Flu quickly becoming a pandemic and British travellers still in Mexico requiring repatriation, what control measures will be in place at MAN to ensure that our workplace doesn't become a breeding ground for the virus? I have young children at home (1 with severe asthma and epilepsy) and I am a bit scared to be honest.

[mantug01]

If you work at Manchester Airport you should be almost immune from most viruses and bacteria, the place is a breeding ground since they cut the cleaning contracts.

The official line: stay 8 feet away from anyone with cold symtoms and wash your hands before eating and drinking.

[Trash_Hauler]

Valid point... And also when you see the scruffs that go in and out of there, I probably have nothing to worry about anyways. It does make one wonder however what plans are in place in the event of an actual pandemic illness. During S.A.R.S. they (the plc) didn't seem to have a plan and it was even worse during the Bird Flu scare.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Just wondering if there is a technical reason (U/S ILS etc) why a lot of aircraft seem to be making a less than usual approach to 23 R this morning? I assume its a VOR/DME approach... are they taking advantage of the clear conditions to get aircraft to use this approach?

[kriskross]

Would be surprised, AWR, as the ILS would be more efficient than the less practiced non-precision VOR. In my Company, the Flight Crew Training manual states that it is recommended that a non-precision approach should be flown stabilised rather than decelerating, i.e. starting at a slower speed than normal, so it would take extra time to complete. The u/s ILS would be a more likely scenario.

I can't see many visual approaches to 23R either.

[airnoc]

Hi saw on ceefax bbc1 today aer arran arrive from noc. Is this a new services?

[MUFC_fan]

Champions League charters.

They have two to DUB and also EI have one to same place and I think FR's 22.25 is a normal service?

[TURIN]

Any one heard the rumour EL AL are returning to MAN later this year?

Heard the rumour but it was wrong.

From thejc.com (http://www.thejc.com/articles/el-al-fly-luton)



El Al has also confirmed it has no plans to resume flights from Manchester to Tel Aviv in the near future.

Manchester’s local Jewish paper claimed last week that the airline was set to resume operations from Manchester “as early as June”. The claim followed a visit to Manchester Airport last week by Mr Danor and El Al staff.

But a spokesman for the airline said the situation remained as it was since El Al discontinued direct flights in 2001. He said the recent visit to Manchester Airport was “part of an ongoing review of El Al’s UK operations”.

Fresh interest in the route was sparked by the decision of Thomsonfly to discontinue flights between Manchester and Tel Aviv after Passover.

However, Jet2.com, the regional, low-cost airline, is to begin flights between Manchester and Tel Aviv from May.

“It is true we would like to return to flying to Tel Aviv from Manchester, but we have to be sure that it is viable to do so in the long term,” Mr Danor said this week.
Last updated: 6:37pm, April 27 2009

[one post only!]

This could prove to be interesting for MAN. EZY have been desperate to put more aircraft into MAN for ages (admittedly this was before the economy went t*ts up) but have been prevented by a contract signed with peel holdings. Initially the contract stopped EZY from basing aircraft anywhere other than LPL in the north west and now limits the numbers at MAN. With Babys victory against peel could this set a president and could we see more expansion at MAN for EZY??

Long-term fears over bmibaby’s victory - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article6201802.ece)

[Momentary Lapse]

With the credit crunch, people will find it harder to get credit cards to put their "bucket and spade" or "lager lout stag-do" holidays on. Businesses will cut back on travel budgets.

Airlines will cancel and consolidate services due to reduced demand. Airports will have to fight for what little traffic is left by <shouts loudly so MAPLC can hear me> improving customer service and reducing costs.

[compton3bravo]

What a load of clap trap!

[rkenyon]

Not clap trap at all. With the Euro virtually at a par with the pound, it's a hell of a lot more expensive to go on European holidays. Even worse with the financial uncertainty people are feeling at the moment.

[wiccan]

Was stopped twice the other day...in the nice new area outside the ground floor lifts...[T1 arrivals]
Q1, "How di I get to arrivals?"
Q2, "How do I get to the bus/taxis" [ongoing]
Nice bright area, nice staff shop NO signs for the poor pax.
At least the "space heaters" have gone

[jabird]

QF tt showing QF2 routed LHR-MAN-BKK-SYD from 24th May on Sundays only, but not bookable either direct or through any other sources. Is this just a complete mis-print, or is there some intention to start such a service?

Don't think this has anything to do with the LHR-MAN 'shuttle'/slots issue of a while back, but can hardly see this as a way to promote a more direct link from MAN as the return is to LHR only.

Confused!

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

jabird,

The QF flight which you have come across is due to operate on one date only. Unfortunately, it is a pre-planned one-off arrangement and is not the start of a regular scheduled service. Presumably there is a significant group booking influencing the operation of this particular departure.

At least MAN is still in QF's thoughts - just!

All the best. SHED.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

compton3bravo,

It is telling that your response to Momentary Lapse's posting contains no evidence or argument to support your contemptuous dismissal of the point of view expressed. If you must condemn other's postings as "clap trap", at least have the integrity to state your reasoned case for so doing.

I suggest to you that the trends identified by ML in the 17:58 posting are not only spot on looking ahead, but are already verifiable in the statistical breakdowns released by MAG for the early months of 2009. And if they do not convince you, take a look at recent business updates published by numerous airlines and tour operators.

ML will be the first to tell you that [he/she] and I have had some differences of opinion on these threads in the past. But when that situation arises, both parties respond with reasoned exchanges and debate - not one-liner insults. That is what makes discussion boards compelling and informative, and builds respect between contributors. We all sometimes have to agree to disagree, but hopefully reasoned debate supported by facts and ideas can help us all to understand the subject better.

I'm afraid "what a load of clap trap" is not a great contribution to the finer understanding of this particular issue. Perhaps you could undertake to respond to ML's gloomy economic forecast with your reasons for taking a contrary view. Now that would be worth reading.

Cheers, SHED.

[jubilee]

Jabird,
The QF flight operated last May (2008) as well. One off departure, so possible the same group going. Info in plane mad about the flight.
Regards
Jubilee

[MANFlyer]

Biman do plan to return to MAN, but not until they have taken delivery of 777 / 787 aircraft which wont be for sometime, the only reason they dropped the MAN route was that they couldn't operate a schedule with the aging DC-10s which were regularly 12hr+ late.

Biman might well take those Four most aged and cycle expended machines of CX and SQ however i actually expect the 787 order to be delayed/deferred and then canx- They have NO money !

Biman supposedly taking 2 of the currently being decomissioned SQ 772's:

SQTalk - View Single Post - SQ B777 withdrawal thread (http://www.sqtalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=91302&postcount=36)

[MrSoft]

QUOTE >> With the Euro virtually at a par with the pound, it's a hell of a lot more expensive to go on European holidays.

As of last week, the currency exchange in T1 ( - that big one immediately on your right post-security) wanted £106.70 for 100EUR, I kid you not. They are about 10 quid more expensive than the one a bit further on (just before Duty Free.)

That should really tempt the holidaymakers. Maybe MAN plc should have a word with that crowd.

[dancav]

Which Easyjet aircraft is coming to Man to cover addittional new routes starting this month?

[OltonPete]

Reported on another site

Quote

"Pax - 1,455,167 down 5.28%

Movements - 14,219 down 15.07%

Freight - 8,281 tonnes down 36.71%"

End of quote

Pete

[Envoy320]

25 - 07 - 09

EK A380 to visit...?? anyone else heard this date??

[GavinC]

I'm away on that date!! Would love to see the A380 at MAN. Perhaps a promotional visit? You would think that the local media would have this covered if it happened. It was all of the media when the A380 did a fly past!!

[TartinTon]

Can anyone shed any light on the Jet2 MANMJV schedules during the week?
They show a 0740 dep but I always thought that MJV airport was shut until 1300gmt Mon-Fri as the military used it? :confused:

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Specially arranged opening windows to permit the earlier schedule:ok:. Only prob is that they sometimes just close the window with very little notice:mad: and delays have occurred due to this:{.

[MAN-OPS]

Some airlines which have applied for runway slots:

Iberword A330-300

Europe Airpost B737-300

Blueline MD83

Blue Panorama 767-300 (EICZH)

CSA Czech A321 and 737-400

Mapjet MD83

Air Italy 757 and 767

Seagle Air 737-300

[viscount702]

It has been reported on another site that MAN has signed a contract with Thales for the supply and installation of Two CATIII ILS/DME systems at MAN

Does anyone know which runways these are for
Are they for 23R/05L or 23l/05R

If the former what is happening to theexisting CATIIIon this runway

[seahawks]

Ref 938

LS863 MAN-MJV today delayed by 5 hours due to military activity at MJV.

Cock up by Jet2 or change of mind by Spanish?

Also, second runway at MJV appears complete but I have not seen it used, anyone know when it will be in service?

[roverman]

Two new THALES 420 ILS + a new DME for 05L-23R, CAT 3B. These will replace the existing THOMSON 381s which have been there for over 20 years!
Project starts in the summer.

[TSR2]

LS863 MAN-MJV today is showing cancelled on Flight Stats.

[flybar]

It was cancelled from its original path and reinstated at a later time with the same flight code.

[viscount702]

Thought that might be the case.

What is happening to the two Thomson ones.

Will they be moved to 23L/05R because 23L currently has no ILS and 05R only CAT I.

There was talk last year of 05R getting CAT III not necessarily new and the CAT I being moved to 23L.

In the normal course of events 23L isn't used that much for arrivals but 05R is. In an ideal world all should have CAT III but CAT I on 23L is probably all that is required at present based on the current use.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

LS863 MAN-MJV today delayed by 5 hours due to military activity at MJV.

Cock up by Jet2 or change of mind by Spanish?

Spanish change of mind unfortunately:oh:, they're causing some disruption with this arrangement.

[TartinTon]

Jet2s choice to take the risk. The airport is officially closed to civilian traffic until 1300 gmt Mon-Fri however there are 3 20 minute windows allowed by the military before this time which can also be withdrawn by the military at any time. This is what J2 were aiming for. A bit Mickey Mouse in my opinion. I bet they don't tell the pax that when they book...

[TSR2]

Posted by Tartin Ton
I bet they don't tell the pax that when they book...

They certainly don't.

[The96er]

Jet2's plan 'B' - Fly to ALC and bus the pax from there. I believe they wait until the aircraft is in the air before telling the passengers though !!

[Kestrel029]

Hi all,

Doing MAN - SFB on 4th June 2009 with TCX. Any ideas of airplane used? I know it's 99% guaranteed to be a Airbus A332, but do they allocate specific airplanes at this time or is it just whatever has slotted in?

Heard TCX upgraded their A332's with leather seats and increased pitch, anyone had experience of these said upgrades?

Must beat the 2003 flight I took from Manchester or SFB on an old 747-200 with European with the roof tilings coming loose and the toilets being in the dark :P

Cheers all.

[MUFC_fan]

I don't know TCX's current cabins but I do know they were going to try and match TOM/FCA config. Just leaves MON now...

The only aircraft that it would be apart from the A332 is the A333 yet this is being based at LGW so I doubt it.

[Kestrel029]

Ah I wasn't aware that TCX owned any A333's, they're fleet status says they own only 6 A330-200's

[MUFC_fan]

TCX/MYT will be using an A333 from it's Scandinavian sister this summer and basing it at LGW as far as I know.

[Kestrel029]

Yeah just browsing on planespotters.net showing a few A333's with the MYT colours. Still think I'm going to be flying on a A332 with TCX colours of course ;P

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Jet2's plan 'B' - Fly to ALC and bus the pax from there. I believe they wait until the aircraft is in the air before telling the passengers though !!

My understanding is that the situation was still under negotiation when the aircraft departed, so even the crew didn't know at that stage where they were going to end up, that's why the pax weren't bussed from MJV to ALC till the aircraft landed in ALC.

Not ideal I agree, but a lot better than some other lo-co's we can think of that wouldn't think twice about dumping the pax at ALC without transporting them to MJV, then cancelling the inbound flight from MJV and leaving the pax stranded.:=:=

[Scottie Dog]

From the Air Livery website:

The interesting item is the setting of an operational date of July 2009.

"Air Livery PLC are proud to announce the latest addition to their international paint facilities with a new state of the art aircraft refinishing centre at Manchester Airport, United Kingdom.

This new facility will increase our wide body capabilities allowing us to accommodate aircraft up to the new Airbus 350XWB and the Boeing 747-800 Intercontinental whilst maintaining our current A330, A340, B777 and B747-400 operation.

The Manchester location provides a huge advantage for our airline clients as we will be able to work with them to eliminate the need for any ‘dead leg’ flights thus keeping ferry flights and repositioning costs to a minimum. The location of this new centre has been selected specifically to respond to our customer’s needs in order to reduce their aircraft refinishing costs and also to widen Air Livery’s customer base to include the United States of America, Far East and Africa.

This new facility will offer the latest application equipment along with full extraction and climate control that will provide excellent conditions for refinishing any aircraft. Along with our high Quality Standards (ISO 9001: 2000, ISO 14001: 1996 and OHSAS 18001: 1996) this will allow us to provide our clients with the perfect end result.

Operational from July ’09, the Manchester facility will enable Air Livery Plc to continue to deliver a high quality end product, total flexibility with minimum downtime and provide a cost effective solution to all our clients’ requirements."

[MAN777]

They are having the ex BA hangar, about time it was put into proper use.

Should generate some interesting movements.

[Robini]

For all TCX speculaters out there.....
1 A330-300 will be based at LGW during the summer, and fly to destinations like
Dalaman,SFB and the carribean. I guess it will be -VKG - which is still in MYT colours. Of course VKG won't just fly from Gatwick, it will fly from ARN to Turkey,Greece and PMI. While OSL normally gets -VKH to the same destinations.
-VKI will go back to Skyservice during the summer so just 2 A333 will stay in
northern Europe. So if you are going to SFB then it's probably A332 - not impossible to get an A333 though...

[jongeman]

Good news about Air Livery. Out of interest, how many hangars are there? Is there still an engineering/maintenance one?

[Scottie Dog]

Manchester has 4 hangars. The old Dan-Air 2nd World War one (that is used by Flybe). then the more modern Thomas Cook and Monarch maintanence facilities and finally the Air Livery paint shop that was the British Airways hangar.

Additionally there is of course the Ocean Sky Centre for executive jets.

[Envoy320]

Robini - TCX are operating VKI at the moment and it is in full Thomas Cook Scandinavia colours...

The 4th June from Manchester is definately an A330-200 although the B767-300 will be covering in the event of any tech problems...

The A330-300 operates twice a week out of Manchester to Calgary and Toronto on Friday and Saturday respectively...

It will also be operating out of Glasgow on Wednesdays.....to Calgary

[jongeman]

Thanks Scottie Dog for that info.

[MUFC_fan]

Big boys will be coming into MAN!:}

Anybody know which airlines they have contracts with?

[1545]

Go to the Air Livery website, and click on photo gallery. It will make the spotters happy, and provide interest for the rest of us.

[eggc]

Heres a link to a gallery on their website of some birds they have painted...

Air Livery Plc - Quality First in Aircraft Refinishing (http://www.airlivery.com/gallery_commercial.shtml)

[AircraftOperations]

Didn't their press release say that the reason they had opened at MAN would be to eliminate/reduce positioning flights for a/c to be painted?

That sounds to me like they aim to be painting aircraft that use MAN already, or those using UK airports at a push. You might not see as many big/exotic vistors as you imagine.

[MUFC_fan]

What about Seattle-Manchester-Middle/Far East/Africa?
Or Toulouse/Hamburg-Manchester-Middle/Far East/Africa?

[Momentary Lapse]

Just read Shed-on-a-Pole's post #930. Thanks mate :ok: for the defence. I could fall in love with you :O . Who'd have thought it? :eek: :yuk:

[Skipness One Echo]

I've never come across so much excitement over paint.....

[jongeman]

For an airport which lost hundreds of jobs when FLS Aerospace pulled out, and then BA maintenance or whatever it was, watching paint dry takes on a new appeal!

[ROSSKi MYT]

It will also be operating out of Glasgow on Wednesdays.....to Calgary

Will the Glasgow Based A332 not operate this?
It is not scheaduled anything otherwise, it shcedule is

Thur-SFB
Fri-SFB via BFS
Sat-SFB
Sun- Down
Mon-Cun
Tues-Pop
Wed-Vancouver via Cagary

[Envoy320]

The A333 is operating Glasgow Calgary on Wednesdays....not the A332 which is operating directly to Vancouver

Thats the plan so far...

And I believe the A332 operates to DLM on Sundays...?

[Kestrel029]

Thanks for all posts regarding the 4/6/09 TCX flight to SFB. Now if only I could get the jumpseat allocated! :ok:

On another note, any one know where the Crowne Plaza hotel is on the airport? Some say it's adjacent to T1, others to T2, just if anyone has had experience of said hotel before?

Cheers.

[Curious Pax]

It used to be the Excelsior in days of yore. It's pretty much the same distance from T1 and T3, and nowhere near T2. Had some houseguests last weekend who stayed there the night before their flight home, and they spoke highly of it.

[TSR2]

Stayed at the Crowne Plaza quite a few times. It is adjacent to the long term car park and facing terminal 1. Never had any complaints.

[IB4138]

The last time I stayed at the Crown Plaza, it was behind T3 car park.

Can also recommend Premier Inn at Heald Green, who will arrange a mini bus (£6) to take you to the airport. Much cheaper than an "on airport" hotel.

[MAN777]

Re the Premier inn at Heald Green, the railway is right next door its only one stop from the airport and costs less than £1.

Also dont forget the new travelodge at the cargo centre, book early enough and you might get one of their £29 deals.

Or if you really want some atmosphere try and get one of the rooms upstairs at the Airport Hotel Public house on the old ringway road, it overlooks the end of 23R, its very cheap but a bit noisy !!!!!!:ok:

[1545]

Go to the Trip Advisor website. It may help you to guage how good the hotel is.

[steve platt]

First customer for air livery hangar should be the raf with a vc10 and then an awacs.

[parky747]

LCY link from MAN dumped. Virgin Trains obviously a better option!!!

[RoyHudd]

Sad but not surprising. City boys are thinner on the ground, and less likely to be able to commute on company expenses. And given the time needed from parking to boarding surely makes this route nonsensical. (LCY is much quicker, admittedly).

I hope the airport downturn doesn't accelerate, but expect it will. . I also hope the security army is being down-sized at the same rate while passenger numbers diminish. This unpleasant aspect of the airport experience positively discourages repeat business. As does the tortuous slog through the retail sector in T1..and the delays when taxying on and off stand due to WIP...and the tiny smelly arrivals area after customs in T1..and ....oh forget it.

I used to love Ringway, but MAN is a terrible place to work from. No choice for most of us, sadly.

[IB4138]

If they are going to get rid of some security staff, could the travelling public and other staff be asked to vote for who they want shown the door?

I know who I would be voting for.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

also with the loss of VLM LCY services, antwerp, rotterdam and luxembourg will also be dissapearing off the MAN departure boards. 4 destinations taken out in one swoop!

[MUFC_fan]

Antwerp and Rotterdam are served M-F twice daily, non-stop and these services will not be affected but you are quite right, Luxembourg will not appear on the screens any more.

Lets hope Cityflyer make an appearance! After all, their offices are in Manchester!

[greatoaks]

A message for the army of customs/security personnel at man....for christ sake smile ....use some element of pleasant personality and when you leave me sat with no friggin shoes on for 10 minutes have the decency to bring me them back , thank me and not sat there like a fo%%ing criminal.

Manners cost bugger all

We pay your salary or did you forget that

Rant over

[parky747]

Lets hope Cityflyer make an appearance! After all, their offices are in Manchester!

I often wonder if or when BA will show there face back in MAN on a few routes. Hopefully when the economy shows signs of positive recovery we may see them back.

[Skipness One Echo]

What makes you think that routes that lost BA a fortune in the past will be resumed? BA do nothing outside London now as that's the only BA market they can make money in. Even Gatwick is under pressure.

[Ringwayman]

Why would we want BA back? We're now well rid of them and their creative accounting schemes for regional ops. Our best hope will be seeing Star Alliance carriers adding routes if we're after getting "frills" airlines here plus a smattering of low fare carriers.

How BA would have coped operating in the regions with a different cost structure and more suitable aircraft is something to contemplate on cold, rainy May evenings.

[parky747]

Why would we want BA back?

Because no other airline has made a commitment to MAN, it need a full service airline based here

[Mister Geezer]

I am afraid to say that BA is probably the last airline that would make any investment and commitment to operating out of Manchester. They are not called 'London Airways' for nothing! :}

[AldiAl]

Thinking aloud here I wonder if FlyBe or maybe Air Southwest might take a punt on MAN-LCY!

AldiAl

[ATNotts]

Given the (sound commercial) reasons that VLM have given for pulling the MAN-LCY route why would any business, especially in the current economic climate, "take a punt" on the route.

Only in the UK, with it's pathetic high speed rail infrastructure, would such a short route be even considered viable - given that the traffic is point to point with little or no interline prospects. Flying, with all the security issues is now pain in the proverbial, and rail, without all that check-in and security hindrance should surely be the preferred option for city centre to city centre travel over comparatively short distances.

When, or more realistically, if high speed rail is developed properly in the UK then it would be the deathknell for much of the current domestic point to point air travel - as it has become in France, and Germany.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Virgin trains now operate every 20 mins between Manchester and London, also just read the journey has just been cut to 2 hours. Who wants airport security and all that hassle when you can take this?

[Ringwayman]

I am all for high speed rail, provided that there is no government money involved in it. VLM allege in part that the subsidies for Virgin Trains plays a reason for the withdrawal - anyone know what the rail fares would be without those in place?

What would happen to rail travel if that mode of transport got targetted and you had to go through airport style check-in and security measures?

[mickyman]

Re:VLM


If VLM cannot make the route work then nobody
will be able too.

Get over it and move on.

MM

[Curious Pax]

I am all for high speed rail, provided that there is no government money involved in it. VLM allege in part that the subsidies for Virgin Trains plays a reason for the withdrawal - anyone know what the rail fares would be without those in place?

Do the railways pay VAT on fuel? If they do then as aircraft fuel doesn't incur VAT charges then that evens things up a bit.

[StygerTim]

Yes, but they they then (like any business) reclaim it.

That means train operators do not pay tax on their fuel. Therefore, they don't pass that cost on to their passengers.

Source : HM Revenue & Customs

Also :

1. Government have subsidised rebuild of West Coast Main Line, to the tune of over £10 billion cash from the Exchequer. That means you have.

2. Virgin and other train operating companies are currently negotiating with Government to postpone or reduce their agreed Franchise Fees. Such delays or reductions will be a form of subsidy by Government - ie you. East Coast Main Line has already publicly confirmed this action.

3. And if you want to travel peak with Virgin between Manchester and London, get a bit of room and comfort by travelling First, and need the flexibility to change your train times, you will pay £384 return for the privilege. Choose Lancaster, and the price is £399. From Preston, it's still £390. Check it out for yourself on Virgin's website.

4. Remove competition from airlines, hand those revenue-driven privatised rail companies a monopoly on fast UK domestic intercity links, and we'll soon see those unregulated rail fares start to climb even higher.

When's the betting for when we see the first £500 return rail ticket between Manchester and London ? Can't be far away, if they're going to balance their books.

Remember : GNER just walked away from their East Coast Main Line franchise. They couldn't balance their books. And their replacement National Express East Coast is already bleating poverty : just Google their name, and check out the recent media coverage.

Oh, and before you start claiming that high speed rail is endlessly less environmentally polluting that air, and moving to high speed rail benefits our fragile environment, check out the official EEA CORINAIR emissions data for such turboprops as VLM's frugal F50s - and note the true environmental impact of high-speed rail from such independent authorities as Belgium's 'Consumer Association, Test Aankoop .

There is plenty of evidence that air really can work out as environmentally friendly as high-speed rail on shorter-haul routes - particularly when you vector in the massive carbon footprint of rebuilding and maintaining that new West Coast Main Line and the other hidden energy burden of operating a high-speed electricity-powered rail lines within the UK and its fossil fuel power station dependence.

That's why the Department for Transport has just revised their advice to travellers on the direct.gov.uk website, and dropped any firm claim that you shouldn't travel by air within the UK. They now say you should consider the alternatives - which is long way back from their original claims that you should not fly. They accept that, in many circumstances, air travel is both justifiable and acceptable.

So, next time the West Coast Main Line is blocked, or Eurostar is discontinued due to an incident in the Tunnel, remember - the UK needs alternatives to get it to work, or to get it home. Now that VLM has pulled off its Manchester link, those alternatives are yet again reduced. That's a sad situation, particularly for the UK's region.

[ATNotts]

If I recall correctly, UK surface public transport pays excise duty at the full rate (that is to say the same as you and I do) on their fuel (diesel predominantly). I think I would be correct in saying that aviation fuel is not just VAT, but also excise duty free - which makes a heck of a difference between the cost of a tonne of road or rail diesel, versus a tonne of jet fuel.
Doesn't really help operators running electric trains though!

So far as the question of relative emmisions between an electric powered train, and an aircraft I would think that dependent upon which side of the fence you sit, you coud make a case for either mode of public transport being more environmentally friendly, using the same data - there lies, damned lies, and statistics you know!

As for comfort, please compare apples with apples, and look at the comfort and space offered even in 2nd (OK Standard) class on a train, and a VLM Fokker - no competition methinks, and you can play with all those elctronic devices so beloved of today commuter on the train.

[MAN777]

Had a peek into the ex BA hangar today, work is going ahead at a cracking pace as the contractors install the massive extractor ducting.

Not sure how long it will be to opening ?