MANCHESTER - 7

[BYALPHAINDIA]

I think LS might get a surprise in May, When they bring back their other aircraft to base?

With the additional FR & EZY slots, I think some 'Peak' time slots may be already allocated to other Airlines?

I am a 'fan' of Jet 2, But I don't think they will commit to MAN, Or provide MAN with any 'substantial' expansion, With LBIA just under 50 mins away?

They don't need to.

[Vuelo]

Not sure I 'understand' exactly 'what' you are 'saying'.

[Betablockeruk]

Maybe it's a 'coded message'. ;)

I've been 'watching' to many 'Spooks' episodes. :ok:

[mickyman]

TheSpirit

'I could drive back from LHR to MAN in a much shorter time than the 4.5 hours I am going to be forced to wander the T5 shopping mall.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/bah.gif'

Re-read your last sentence and wait for the 'penny' to drop.

MM

[mantug01]

Regarding the Virgin A340's in S09

I have heard it was the A340 -600 as the airport have been looking at possible parking positions and if they can fit on the terminal or they will end up remote.

Dont think VS have spare aircraft or slow routes to allow man to haveeither the 343 OR 346... Would be nice though

[G-STAW]

heres the latest regarding VS...

they are increasing weekend capacity to MCO, from June till October 2009 with the addition of a 3rd flight on Saturday's using a LHR based A343 on top of the current 2x 744's. On Sunday, MCO will be operated by 1x A343 and 1x B744 whilst the other B744 operates BGI.

1x 744 and the A343 position to and from LGW and LHR on Friday's and Monday's.

Air canada is back from 29th march operating a 767 from T2. AC840 arrives at 0740z and leaves at 0915z

SQ are back daily from 30/5

AA switch to the B757-200 on August 2nd 2009 but it stays 1 x daily not 5x weekly

from S09 season Easyjet Manchester will be flying to the following new destinations:

Paris CDG (1x daily)
Nice NCE (1x daily)
Fuerteventura FUE (1x weekly)
Corfu CFU (1x weekly)

G-STAW

[Scottie Dog]

With all due respect these look to me to be the normal annual postings taken, as previously stated, from the summer slot conference document.

Yes I would love to see the return of these flights, however I will believe it once the flighst become available for sale through either the internet or GDS systems.

Scottie Dog

[BDLBOS]

I thought SQ were just going to change the days of non operation back to Tues/Thurs ex MAN. They seem to be confused as to what days not to operate, bless em!

[MUFC_fan]

Looks like MAN will be getting some extra GRO frequencies and will probably be daily next summer.

BLK has been dropped and it is likely that the flights will be split between MAN and LPL.

I know it's not a lot but every little helps!

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Surprised at more GRO flights, GRO has dropped off in the last few years, Partly due to more ALC & MJV.

[viscount702]

I don't recall this being reported previously but it would seem the MAD flight from MAN has been dropped in addition to various flights from BHX

[RingwaySam]

Does anybody have any news on Air Sylhet? RingwayReports shows them as due today, although I don't think they even have planes yet do they? Not showing on the live arrivals & departures either.

[mickyman]

G-STAW

You seem very certain of your list so I would ask
you to qualify if they are valid or just slot requests?

MM

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Quote
I don't recall this being reported previously but it would seem the MAD flight from MAN has been dropped in addition to various flights from BHX

Reply
There will be nothing left of WW in about 6 months!!

Thanks to SMB!!

[Ian Brooks]

I think the cut back at BHX is due to pressure from Ryanair as once they start leaning on you with their muscle there can only be one outcome

MAD ex Manchester the way Baby was running it was never going to be a success with the business community

Ian

[Bearpit]

Does this mean Baby keeping 4 rather than 5 aircraft for S09? Can't see a 5th unit if the others are going back...

[BHX5DME]

WW will have 17 aircraft, so I guess

BHX - 5
EMA - 5
MAN - 4
CWL - 3

[viscount702]

WW There needs to be 5 A/C at MAN based on current timetable even with the MAD being dropped.

[viscount702]

re the question of flights /slots.

Can some confirm how this works please.

Airline wants to operate a flight and therefore applies for slots. If available it is presumably granted and is kept until is given back (because not required) or lost due to non use.

Where an airline already has a slot is using it and intends to continue using it does it have to re apply before each summer/winter period to retain it?

[Ametyst1]

Aer Arann are to pull off the Manchester to Kerry route from 12th January. From the same date frequency on the airline's routes from Manchester to both Galway and Waterford will be reduced from a Daily service to 5 times a week on each route (No services on Tuesday & Saturday).

[MUFC_fan]

Could some of these flight be coming to BLK along with DUB?

[Ametyst1]

No, and Blackpool to Dublin has not been announced yet.

[MUFC_fan]

Yet........

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Unsure why, But DL154/155 is a B767-300 between 2/12/08 and 16/12/08

Cheers

[G-STAW]

thats due to christmas.....

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

See I realised that after psting. Ah well, another widebody to the USA for a while, suppose its a good thing really, although ive heard the IFE in a DL B757 is better

[adam12345]

Ryanair, Europe's largest low fares airline, today (1 Dec) rejected the awards given to London Heathrow Airport and Manchester Airport at the recent British Travel Awards.

Ryanair questioned how Heathrow Airport could be given the "Best UK Airport" award in the year in which it lost over 28,000 passengers' bags and forced the cancellation of over 700 flights as a result of the mismanagement of Terminal 5.

Ryanair also questioned the silver medal awarded to Manchester Airport which has suffered a significant fall in passenger traffic.

Speaking today, Ryanair's Head of Sales & Marketing Lesley Kane, said:
"How can Heathrow Airport and Manchester Airport be recognised as the Best UK Airports for 2008? In March this year, Heathrow Terminal 5 opened with the cancellation of over 700 flights and the loss of over 28,000 bags; clearly not the signs of an award-winning airport.


"The runner-up award went to Manchester Airport, an airport with declining passenger traffic and job losses on the horizon. Taking these facts into account, it's ludicrous to give Heathrow and Manchester any kind of award apart from booby prize!"

It would be nice to see which airport Ryanair thinks should have won the award.

[MUFC_fan]

Liverpool and Birmingham - when have they ever had probles with one of these airports over the last 12 months?

[scrapy]

Monarch seems to have quietly cut IBZ. No longer bookable but still on route map.

[TartinTon]

Patience scrapy. All routes not necessarily on sale yet...by your logic Easyjet have cancelled all schedules from LGW for next summer :sad::sad::sad:

[AUTOGLIDE]

It's all well and good BA making the decision to centralise their operation at LHR, but when are they going to improve the connections, for example I have a business trip to Washington coming up, on the return leg I land at LHR at around 09:00 and don't have a connection back to MAN until arond 13:40.

I could drive back from LHR to MAN in a much shorter time than the 4.5 hours I am going to be forced to wander the T5 shopping mall.

Why don't you use a US carrier from MAN and then connect stateside instead? Would also mean that you arrive back at MAN after the overnight sector, rather than at LHR, and then have to wait around feeling knackered for hours for a domestic flight. It's a much nicer way to do this I find.

[Tight Seat]

Scrapy,

IBZ is a summer only route, no demand- no ZB. Loads were good this summer so I bet its on again come May.

[Suzeman]

re the question of flights /slots.

Can some confirm how this works please.



A very complex subject !!

I recommend visiting www.acl-uk.org (http://www.acl-uk.org) and click on the reference library tag to get the regulations etc

There is a very useful summary of the process in the general section of the reference library entitled UK Slot Allocation Process Criteria (http://80.168.119.219/UserFiles/File/UKSlotAllocationProcessCriteria.pdf)

Suzeman

PS There will be a test of your understanding on Thursday......:E

[viscount702]

I've already been there and although it is a useful guide
it didn't answer my question.

[Suzeman]

Viscount

Your question was

Where an airline already has a slot is using it and intends to continue using it does it have to re apply before each summer/winter period to retain it?

If you read the ACL document it DOES tell you how this works.

Para 2 of the data preparation and analysis section states (my emphasis in bold)

In September each year, what the Coordinator considers to be the Summer historic schedule for each airline is sent to them individually for checking (SHLs). This ensures any disagreements between the airline and the Coordinator regarding historic ‘rights’ can be resolved before the schedule submissions for the next Summer season in October. (Winter historics are established in April before schedule submissions in May).

The historic schedule is based upon the results of the slot monitoring and use-it or lose-it process undertaken by the Coordinator for that season. Clarity about the historic baseline is then established before the submissions are received from the airlines by the Coordinator.

This means that the airline and coordinator agree on which are their historic slots which they can retain from the previous equivalent scheduling season

Then the coordination process starts. Back to the ACL document

Preliminary Coordination

1. Airline schedule requests are submitted to Coordinators by midnight on the schedule submissions deadline set by IATA. This is in May for Winter season and in October for a Summer season. The aggregate airline submissions produce a picture of ‘Raw Demand’ (unconstrained demand) at the airport for the Coordinator to consider against the available supply of airport facilities (runways, terminals and stands).

2. Prior to any slot allocation decisions the schedule data which has been submitted by the airlines is generally sorted into one of four categories:

i) Historic Slots - there is some flexibility here as some changes are allowed in this category which do not materially effect coordination parameters e.g. flight number change. More significantly changes which may have capacity implications, e.g. substitution of a larger aircraft, timing adjustments etc. are put into the second category called Changed Historics.

So airlines do have to apply for slots for all flights they want to operate including those which have agreed historic rights.

ii) Changed Historics - these are flights for which the airline already holds an historic slot but which, for a variety of operational or commercial reasons, have been requested with a significant variation compared with the previous season e.g. different timing, larger aircraft etc.

iii) New Entrants - the new entrant group of schedules is further subdivided between new airlines to the airport and new services requested by incumbent airlines but still qualifying as new entrants as they hold less than 4 slots per day.

iv) New Incumbents - these are all new slot requests by existing operators not qualifying as new entrants.

3. Initially, all Historic Slots and Changed Historic slots are put into the new seasonal database.

4. Changed Historics which breach the scheduling limits are rescheduled as close to their required time as possible but within the scheduling limits.

5. The net result of this process is a fully coordinated airport within all the scheduling limits but based entirely on Historic and Changed Historic schedules. Approximately 40% of airlines historic schedules become Changed Historics each season. Schedule adjustments by the Coordinator to meet scheduling limits are minimised.

And just to clarify the priorities for slot allocation

3. The criteria used in the allocation decision process are summarised below and are the same for new entrants and incumbent operators.

a) Primary Criteria for slot allocation
• Historical precedence
• Changes to Historic Slots
• New Entrants
• Introduction of Year - Round services

So you can see from this that Historic slots and Changed Historics slots take precedence during the allocation process. This gives the airlines stability when putting their schedules together (although the EU were looking at changing this at one stage - not sure whether they gave up on it or not!!)

Hope this helps - test on Thursday cancelled :ok:

Suzeman

[mufc4evr]

I read on the airliners.net forum that MS might start a service to CAI?

[Skipness One Echo]

I read on the airliners.net forum that MS might start a service to CAI?

It's to connect with the new STAR ALLIANCE hub from MAN to the US. I believe it's a pyramid scheme of some sort....

[mufc4evr]

okay thanks, could you elaborate on this proposed hub.

Does that mean we will see the like of United and Possible thai gracing MAN's skies. :D

[pwalhx]

mufc I think you will find skipness was not being serious.

However MS have tried the Cairo route before and if I am not mistaken Alexandria too, so its possible they may consider a return, However in the current climate it seems unlikely

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

maybe luxor has a chance of working?

[Suzeman]

I think you will find skipness was not being serious.


And of course has nothing better to do - posts on 16 different threads so far this evening.......:ooh:

Suzeman

[BHX5DME]

> Pax - 1,288,268 down 9.00%
> Movements - 13,673 down 14.59%
> Freight - 11,905 tonnes down 27.66%

[Betablockeruk]

Predictable, but still unpleasant stats.

btw, where do you get the stats from so quickly? The CAA provisional stats aren't on their website until mid month.

[Ringwayman]

From the MAN website - look in the Archive in "About us"). 22% fewer domestic services...that ought to please the tree huggers! Freight should hoepfully see a good increase from February.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

CAI should work, Even at 1 x a week?

LXR is already covered on CH.

[partyboy_uk]

Monarch seems to have quietly cut IBZ. No longer bookable but still on route map.Monarch flights to Ibiza are back on sale. The route returns on the 21st Mar 09 with 5 flights a week and a double daily service on Friday and Saturday. They claim a "staggering" success on the route over the past 2 years. I'm sure their Hedkandi marketing programme was in no small part a contributing factor in this.

[Daza]

Flights start 21st of MAY until 5th October 09
5x week LGW-IBZ
4x week BHX-IBZ
5X week MAN-IBZ
Daza

[IB4138]

Had the unfortunate experience to enter the UK via T1 last Monday.

Aircraft parked on gate 10, so,long walk to terminal. Up escalators not working and poor signage. After exiting baggage reclaim, entered an area of total chaos. Workmen allover the place, dust, dirt and noise and tried to find "Car Hire"....not a sign visible. Enquired at information desk to be told that all car hire desks have been relocated to 13th floor of car park and told "the lifts are over there" and directed to lifts "to even floors".

Asking again, as to where lifts to 13th floor were, was directed round a corner, through doors and to branch right to three lifts. The middle lift had a large "Out of Order sign" affixed to one door....but that was the only one of the three working!

Arrived on 13th floor to find that car hire is now in a wooden building, which the staff say is permanent and not very warm. 13th floor is the roof of the car park and open to the weather, with cars parked in the open. After picking the car up, locating the exit from the 13th floor was badly signed and involved driving through a chicane.

Yesterday, on my return journey,despite the new security experience, which is a vast improvement, after exiting that area, the lack of signs is clearly evident again and the journey through duty free to get to the restaurants and gates with minimal signs, was infuriating.

I have grave doubts as to whether the finished article will be any better.

The place is a bomb site with totally inadequate signage, which I will avoid as far as possible in the future.

I shall be using airlines based at T3 for my next flights.

[Mr A Tis]

I have not found the up escalator in Pier "B" to immigration working ever this year, so far.
You should know by now, MA don't do escaltors / walk ways or signs. Just accept that's the way it is at MAN.
Don't get me started on the compulsory Duty free shop visit in T1 departures.As for Duty free prices, go to Superdrug or Tescos- much cheaper.
With movements 15% down, maybe the shops will be boarded up before they even open ?thus allowing those of us who want to FLY not shop, get to the gates easier.

[AUTOGLIDE]

I absolutely hate T1, every time I've had to use it the experience has been unpleasent, a dark and claustrophobic rabbit warren. I try and use airlines from T2 as the building at least has a bit of space inside.

[RoyHudd]

With the reduction in pax numbers, is it now time to reduce the staff numbers in the bloated "Security Army"? So many of these people clearly having nothing to do.

And how about a staff channel avoiding the ridiculous Duty-Free area in T1? Or does MAN not care about On-Time-Performance? Flights repeatedly depart late, causing knock-on delays. due to the hold-ups of crews trying to negotiate the thin and often-blocked passageways through Duty-Free. The slow passage of people is by design of course, as in all supermarkets, but stupidly the "designers" forgot about the staff who need to get to work on time. They cannot simply turn up for work earlier than scheduled..by law.

As for the long-winded ATIS, scope provided for further unnecessary delays to flights. Professional pilots do not need to be told to stop at Stop Bars. They know this. No other ATIS carries this warning. Or the rest...the worst ATIS in Western Europe for superfluous content. Time waste. And as for the delays and excess fuel burn due to the taxiway/apron work..I honestly despair. We sit there burning hundreds of gallons every week waiting our turn to taxi onto stand or to the active runway.

The mixed standard of ATC is worthy of mention too. Preventing a/c from crossing 23R when the next landing a/c is at 4 miles is downright negligent and unprofessional. This so often happens when the taxiways are empty on the other side and a/c are ready to go. Fuel/time wastage again. Vectoring onto final approach is hardly any better. Hot and high is too often the rule.

Personally, I will in part be delighted if MAN suffers grievious financial problems. I don't care for the "management". . Given the disastrous recent years of mismanagement and poor planning, the place deserves all it gets. Sadly not so the workers. Including myself. One of the poorest-run airports in Europe. As acknowledged by many of my colleagues from a range of MAN-based airlines. With much more experience than many posters on this site.

[Higher Archie]

Taking a deep breath. One of the most stupid posts that I've read here in many a while...

Suggesting that Security staff are reduced? To help you get to the gate earier. I suggest that you use the security search area via Check In Desk 1 in T1.

You mention that 'pilots don't need to be told to stop at Stop Bars'. Yes they do. It's to avoid runway incursions that have occurred in the last two years.

Delays due to taxiway work? So you don't want airports to improve the facilities and aircraft capability then?

And you will be delighted if MAN suffers grievous financial problems? I won't be delighted if your employer does. I hope that you retain a secure and financially successful job, but stupid comments like yours are unbelievably arrogant. I hope that you are not one of the BA LGW folks who today found that their jobs had dissapeared.

[wiccan]

The poor standard of ATC is worthy of mention too. Preventing a/c from crossing 23R when the next landing a/c is at 4 miles is downright negligent and unprofessional. Vectoring onto final approach is hardly any better. Hot and high is the rule
Fine, if you get a "shufty" on, and are already moving. What about a Heavy foreign airliner, who taxies at 3kts? Go arounds any one? I'll bet that you would be the first to complain if you were no1, and sent around due to the slow crosser [which you advocated]
Hot and high, ask for a longer final to be [more?] stable, or go around, and explain why.:=
bb

[mickyman]

RoyHudd

You should'nt really let the Emu dictate your post.

MM

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

From 1/4/09, EY21/22 will arrive at MAN 15:00, departing at 21:00, spending 5 hours on the ground at MAN, using an A330-200 (source etihad.com)

also, CSA re-introducing a night stopping service, arriving MAN 22:30, departing 07:50, using a B737-500 (source CSA website)

[learjet50]

Mr Hudd

There are more ways to get Airside than via the Duty Free Shopping Area

But there again you would have to get Cold to go via the Security Yard and of course you would not be able to pose to all the passengers in your

(I m a Captain Uniform)

Get off the Staff Bus at the Railway Station and go via West Gate or get off at T1 and walk to the T3 Security Area

We all have to get via Security some way or another
)
Some Crew think they should be given the Golden Carpet treatment
(Stand aside Aircrew Approching}

I ve been there Got the Tee Shirt your not kidding anybody

I would Like to see u in ATC trying to get A/C across and Active Runway when you dont know the whole situation and its I m a Captain Cross me ASAP even if there is 1 at 4 miles

GET A LIFE MAN

[TSR2]

Mr Hudd,
"Flights repeatedly depart late, causing knock-on delays. due to the hold-ups of crews trying to negotiate the thin and often-blocked passageways through Duty-Free."

Would suggest you allow more time then. Very unprofessional.

[Adola69]

:mad:
I'm not sure if this is a wind-up posting by someone called Roy Hudd, who by the way was also one of the most unfunniest comedians of recent times!

Pilots are reminded to stop at red stop bars because believe it or not, these PROFESSIONAL PILOTS often don't bother!! Yes I know it sounds ridiculous, that in front of you there is a row of 15 red lights at a CAT 1 or CAT 3 hold, but some PROFESSIONAL PILOTS cross them - Why? :ugh: Probably the same reason that "Follow the Greens to stand 210" means turn left onto a completely unlit piece of taxiway when the one next to it is all prettily lit up with green centerlight lighting.
The way that "Give way to the aircraft ahead holding on the right side" is interpreted as "It doesn't matter if I hit it with my wing then?"

Sorry Mr Captain, but until that MINORITY of pilots get their act together, then I will continue to protect my ATC licence, other Captains and the travelling public, by spelling out what to do and how to do it.

As for hot and high on approach, just how many range checks do you need before you realise that you may not be able to make a below the glide-path join for the ILS. IF you want more then use the phrase " Could we have a couple of more miles please" and you will ALWAYS get it, as long as you don't ask when you are about to join the localiser at ten miles, otherwise you'll end up getting considerably more. Continous descent is always attempted where and when possible, from Min Stack level usually FL60 or 70, and with a range of 21+ miles should be no problem, but I've sat there and watched the descent from 60 to 5000' be achieved very well but still doing 250+ knots, having been asked some miles back to reduce to 210kts. When further descent is given, the height readout remains stubournly at 5000, only then decreases ever so slowly to 4900, 4800 etc., its painfull to watch at times!. We extend you when we think that this is not going to work, but then the next bloke has to be extended to accomadate you and so on, ending up at busy times to late holding notifictaion and believe me that is not in anybodys interest.
Anyway the Mod may well transfer this post to the ATC ranting section, but at least I hope you'll be a safer pilot in future.
I recommend a visit to any ATC unit to watch and experience for yourself what SOME PROFESSIONAL PILOTS are capable of (Or should it be INCAPABLE of?):D

Anyway to keep this on the thread, so to speak, I hear that KLM are to introduce EMB195 onto the afternoon rotatation to Amsterdam during January 2009?:)

[RoyHudd]

I've edited my previous post, to clarify certain points and modify others. The ATC chaps should note that I was referring to ATIS, which in MAN's case seems to cover SOME items that should be NOTAM'ed. WE don't have time to listen to all this repetitive stuff either on the ground or in the air...too much familiarity breeds contempt. And ATC have been asked consistently by my company to reduce the length of these ATIS broadcasts. They have agreed, and then done nothing. (Legal bods intervening?)

As regards the rest, I believe most folk posting here do not have to contend with the rubbish we face at work, nor the complaints from our passengers and our management when things do not run to time or to plan. And clearly no-one has a working knowledge here of FTL's.

I am sad that an honest, if critical, post should be simply a magnet for non-pilot people on a pro pilot forum. (ATC are welcome).

[Momentary Lapse]

Well the situation isn't going to change any time soon, so I suggest you change your attitude to it, before you go pop.

An airport is a machine of hundreds of parts all playing their part together, as best they can, and there'll always be good bits and not so good bits.

Sit back, close your eyes and think of five nice things that happened last time you were at MAN: a pretty girl (or guy?) smiled at you; the coffee was particularly nice; it didn't rain; you got away on time; you got straight onto stand etc. etc. There, it's not so bad. Feel better now?

[IB4138]

think of five nice things that happened last time you were at MAN

I¨d like to know what you are on Momentaryand where I can get some?

[Ian Brooks]

IB4138
Shops at Manchester airport

I`ll get me coat

Ian

[Momentary Lapse]

Just thought I'd be positive and cheerful for a change. I doubt it'll last. :)

[Suzeman]

think of five nice things that happened last time you were at MAN: :ok:

1. Flight arrived early

2. Up escalator in Pier "B" to immigration WORKING :eek:

3. IRIS system in T1 working

4. No queues even on a Friday teatime.

5. No jobsworth stopping pick up on Level 5

But it wasn't all good especially on the outbound - what about the disgraceful state of the ceilings in T1 departure lounge aka Shopping Arcade? I wondered whether this was a very bad effort at a high tech approach where all services are supposed to be visible, but recently heard a story that work had stopped because of cost cutting. Any truth in this?

Suzeman

[paully]

I`m not taking sides, but if you want a view of Manchester Airport, best ask my missus..:mad:.she hates the place, the whole goddam, soul destroying, experience. She saves her particular venom for the so called `security staff` oh deep joy..she hasnt forgotten how one braindead, last year, spent an inordinate and inefficent, period of time paging through her detective novel, from front to back then the other way:ugh:...It truely is reassurance for the gullible.

As a result, she now refuses to fly, from anywhere at anytime. ( I`ve even suggested Blackpool :rolleyes:) which as you can imagine has caused us some grief and some small revenue lost to aviation, which it can ill afford to lose at this time. So Thanks Manchester you really have B:mad::mad:s`ed me life up..cant even get to ogle the topless on a Spanish Beach anymore:{

Finally, as an experienced (very) shopper, she says its overpriced and crap in all 3 terminals. So there you have it:*

[Momentary Lapse]

I can picture one member at least of the development team looking upwards and saying "can we save some money there?" on the basis that most people don't look up anyway. I always do, on principle, to see what sort of cheapskates I'm dealing with.

Trouble is, if they don't fit the ceiling, there's nowhere to hide all the spy cameras...

I bet MA is wishing it'd never bothered starting this latest retail development. First it was "put DF at the far end" of T1, then it was "put it in the middle", then it was "move it all around again and close everything landside". It just about disguises the fact that not a man-jack of them has any clue what they're doing.

5 things:

1 weather was nice today
2 I had a nice pub lunch
3 I didn't have to go near MAN today
4 I won't be doing tomorrow, either
5 or Wednesday.

There, I feel better now. :D

[Bagso]

Having a swipe at Man management is fair game BUT to include Man ATC in the rant is totally pathetic......:ugh:

I may be wrong but I cannot believe that a professional pilot would seriously criticise fellow professionals.

...more like Walter Mitty than Roy Hudd....!

[RoyHudd]

Nice one, Lapse. But how on earth did you find today's weather nice? Are you 4200 miles downroute? I spent much of my day off within 2 miles of MAN on a layover, and it was a horrible grey rainy day. TAF looks better for tomorrow.

Anyway, I hope MAN management take serious note of the above comments/feedback. Big improvements are desperately needed if the "business" is to survive. User-friendly improvements, that is. Towards workers and paying users (passengers) of the airport.

It is not a retail outlet. Nor a security employment scheme. It's an airport, one I have been familiar with since my days as a spotter, 35 years ago. Now, as a long-time pilot, I am saddened and often dis-heartened with the place. I blame management. Out.

[viscount702]

According to a report in Crains today EZY have scrapped any plans to expand for next 12 months.

I don't think this comes as any surprise despite posts to the contrary.

[chiglet]

Roy Hudd
[I liked your "News Hudlines" BTW :ok: unlike "taking the" mickyman


RoyHudd
You should'nt really let the Emu dictate your post.
MM

BUT, ATC is run by NATS, [as you probably know] specifically NSL... Twr/Apc and NERL ... en Route.
NSL are contracted to provide Twr/Apc ATC for the "Airport".
Now, I used to work in the Tower as an ATSA, and a part of my duties was to do a manual ATIS/DATIS every 30 mins 24/7/365 [or one of my colleagues would stand in for me :ok:]. We had to add all sorts of gen, on a broadcast, [some of which you have highlighted]...but if there was a Met "Special"....we had to do the same thing again, and again. Now it is [semi] automated, it is slightly better, but there are still a lot of inputs that the ATSA has to do.
Stopbars, "Pilots" do cross RED ones...:= seen it happen.
I know that it's long winded, but it is for your safety
Getting off soapbox now

[call100]

Hi Folks
Changing the subject slightly, but concerning MAN management.
How do you feel about the management at MAN signing you all up to trial the National ID database? Removing your right to say no to the database under penalty of losing your job.
Is anyone up there doing anything to fight it? At the moment you are the first line of defence.......Not like the Manchester lads to take something like this lying down.

[Dairyground]

Only SLF, so I don't have any experience of aircrew tribulations at security checks. At MAN all my recent experience is through T3, so I don't have anything useful to say about current layout of T1 or T2 either. However, I have found the new arrangement in T3 quite good, apart from the long walk from security to the waiting area.

On a recent Sunday morning there was no wait at security, no shoes off or belt off, and even some competition from polite staff for my custom!

From what I recall of T1, getting past the shops is no worse than in a lot of other places, certainly no worse than the route from International Arrivals to Domestic Departures at Heathrow T1.

[ACCMan]

To quote Roy Hudd ...... 'Professional pilots do not need to be told to stop at Stop Bars. They know this'. So why Mr Hudd have 21 of your fellow professional pilots crossed stop bars so far this year ..... including one FAA category B 'significant potential for collision'?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hey folks. Never mind all this trivia. Let's deal with the serious stuff: the comedian with the emu was ROD HULL !!!

[GLENO]

............Who was Killed after falling off his roof trying to get a better reception on his TV aerial to watch Inter Milan v Man Utd.......

[Momentary Lapse]

Roy Hudd is the undertaker in Coronation Street, the most recent page in his encyclopaedic career.

http://shinymedia.headshift.com/images/images/archie_shuttleworth_6.jpg

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Vigin are adding a saturday flight to BGI, and a sunday service to MCO. I presume this is where the A340@ MANrumour appeared from.

Google news and search 'manchester flights' for article,as I cant remember the link.

[viscount702]

See the VS press release. These are new flights with 340 to BGI

[mantug01]

Virgin Atlantic boosts Summer 2009 capacity from Manchester:

* Twice a week from Manchester to Barbados

* 10 times a week from Manchester to Orlando

* Extra flights from Gatwick to Montego Bay, Jamaica

Virgin Atlantic, one of the world's leading long-haul airlines, today announced it would be expanding its popular services from Manchester to Barbados and Orlando. The airline is also adding more services from Gatwick to Montego Bay, Jamaica.

Virgin Atlantic will add additional Saturday flights from Manchester to Barbados between 2 May and 7 November 2009, to add to its existing Sunday departures to the Caribbean island. The flights will be on an Airbus A340-300.

There will also be extra seats available between Manchester and Orlando with an additional Sunday departure between 26 April and 8 November 2009, using a Boeing 747-400 aircraft. With this extra Sunday service, Virgin Atlantic will fly 10 times a week between the two cities. From Virgin Atlantic Website

[caro340]

It will be great to see an A340 at MAN :)

[learjet50]

When were you last at Manchester Airport

You say it will be great to see an 340 at Manchester

What about the Air Mauritias/ BWI that use to operate via Manchester
and not to metion to Virgin Aircraft that were based heryou

Does your Mum still give you Dinner Money

Check you facts before you post Cxxp on the Forum

There i ve got it off my chest now

Should nt u be in bed by now it is 2300 LT (11 O Clock at Night to u)

[MUFC_fan]

He was only saying that, as we do not NOW see the A340 at MAN, then it will be good to see them again.

What is your problem?

[johnnychips]

I agree with that!
How petty and rude can you get.

[RoyHudd]

Just so the ATC people can relax, I'm writing about the ATIS....the ATIS...got it? If you're going to verbally and repeatedly warn all traffic at MAN about crossing red stopbars, what about NOTAM'ing it instead if it is so specifically worrying for MAN people? Or alternatively, use the Arrival and Departure ATIS to also and additionally advise us not to descend a foot below DA/MDA without continuous visual contact..stabilized, etc....or to follow the yellow line on the taxi route cleared without deviating...or to stop the aircraft on stand in accordance with the parking guidance system...(tricky one, that...antiquated and scrubby boards hard to discern in the dark)...etc, etc. There's potentially no end to safety advice, as exemplified by our H & S idiots in the UK.

Think I'm wasting my time here....au revoir.

[EGCC4284]

So why Mr Hudd have 21 of your fellow professional pilots crossed stop bars so far this year

Who does Mr Hudd fly for ?

[learjet50]

From his previous thread s I Think it could be MON

Not sure

I will continue my detective work and advise when I know


regards to all

[learjet50]

From his previous thread s I Think it could be MON

Not sure

I will continue my detective work and advise when I know


regards to all

[flyer55]

BA Cityflyer to start man - lcy , soon to be announced !

[G-STAW]

just seen a very interesting email from head office regarding JAL, includes a 773,

ill get more when i can....

G-STAW

[Skipness One Echo]

I had half expected the LCY-MAN operation, one assumes there will be a further cut in the LHR-MAN frequency to allow more long haul ops on the slots. Be interesting to see how the loss of Flightline will impact upon this. Is there enough capacity to introduce this as a high freq service without pulling out of another market? We shall see.

As for JL and the 77W, you've lit the blue touch paper on that one.

caro340 I agree, an A340 would be a good addition to the MAN line up, been lacking of late. Don't let the spiteful oddballs get you down mate.

[lexxity]

Maybe MAN might get the LAS and ORD back? Seen the latest?

VS in Talks with LH over bmi. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7775469.stm)

[airhumberside]

Is there enough capacity to introduce this as a high freq servive without pulling out of another market?
Or peak time slots that would be needed to attract business passengers?

Wouldn't it be a stupid time to launch LCY-MAN though just as Virgin introduce their high frequency timetable, even if LHR frequncies are reduced.

[MUFC_fan]

Maybe it is more about dealing with the AF/KL problem at LCY and trying to take back the domestic market?

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Just catching up here:

Great to see the A343 is going to grace MAN once again. Its been long missed since the withdrawal of JM/BW.

JAL I doubt will happen, as there just isnt the market to support MAN-TOK. There is sufficient feed through LHR/FRA/AMS/HEL etc, and if JAL did ever come to MAN, I would think it would be in the form of a Freighter (although in this economic climate it wont be anytime soon)

BA to LCY is great after they have pulled frequencies, but the main purpose of the LON shuttles is to feed, and there isnt really anything to feed at LCY as most LCY routes are also served from MAN, by the same carriers. But, in this climate I suppose we better take any new routes we can, with traffic on the decline this is no time to be fussy in my opinion.

[AndyH52]

If BACON do start MAN - LCY what are the chances of VLM retaining their current frequencies? Not good I would guess so the airport is once again likely to see no net benefit or net increase in pax as two airlines fight over the same passengers on a route... :ugh::ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

It's NOT BACON, they flogged that off to flybe. I think they want to free LHR slots for more long haul so the London bound traffic will be encouraged to use LCY instead. I suspect LGW MAY be dropped.

[MUFC_fan]

LCY will probably take some of the business travellers into the city instead of having to go out to LHR or LGW.

Also, people in the City who are BA frequent flyers who need to commute can do so easier. I know they may take the train but I am guessing they will be frequent flyer card holders and so will benefit more from taking the plane than the train.

Anyway, competition is always good for the customer so I won't be complaining and it will be nice to see the BA 146 back at MAN along with the A340!:D Or does learjet50 have a problem with that...

[Skipness One Echo]

Shhhh say his name three times and he appears and shouts at you !()
*flees

[mickyman]

MAN-LCY

Could be a ploy to lure all the business passengers
that once used the MAN-JFK flight onto their A319LR's

Oh hang on a mo it wasnt profitable was it - forget it.........

MM

[The96er]

Actually MM - the MAN - JFK route was profitable, the route was pulled for other reasons.


the96er.

[TURIN]

He was being ironic FFS!:ugh:

Pedant head on.....


The LCY-JFK is an A318. :ok:


...and yes, the MAN-LCY would appear to be a feeder for that.

They would have been better off routing the LCY-JFK through MAN instead of Shannon. (Yes I know it's to do with fuel stop and clearing customs etc).

[Mister Geezer]

Forget feeding LCY-JFK... a MAN-LCY route would resemble be more of a staff bus since it would allow those crew who live near MAN to get to work easily!!! Also with CityFlyer's office being in Didsbury, there will be plenty of staff on such a route - which will just bump up the pax figures further!!!

[Ian Brooks]

Sounds like it will make loads of money then

Ian

[Skipness One Echo]

...and yes, the MAN-LCY would appear to be a feeder for that.

Why on Earth would anyone fly from Manchester to London City to fly to Shannon then New York? Are you honestly thinking that this is the intention? To FEED an A318?
The LCY-JFK service is targetted at Canary Wharf and the City, not I'm afraid to say, Manchester. I think it's fair to say Manchester and the North West business traveller wasn't uppermost in the minds of people when this idea was mooted.
Very pprune like that a route that isn't even on sale yet is being dismissed as a disaster!! Any increase in service to LCY from BA has in the case of both GLA and EDI meant a reduction in services to both LHR and LGW. This allows LHR slots to be used for more profitable long haul routes and for BA to downsize a lttle more at LGW. There's a long term goal being played out here.

They would have been better off routing the LCY-JFK through MAN instead of Shannon.
No they wouldn't. MAN has holding and slot issues that Shannon doesn't, plus SNN is under the flight path most of the time. It's a no brainer....

[Ex-RN]

Speaking as regular ANU SLF - I take it that with the total lack of ANU rumours - that the bmi on 24 April will be the last direct flight to ANU outside of LGW with VS showing no interest

[DAr19]

Any increase in service to LCY from BA has in the case of both GLA and EDI meant a reduction in services to...LHR...

So yet longer waiting times for BA long haul connections. I remember trying to book with them from Bahrain to Glasgow (a number of years ago now) and the waiting time in Heathrow was well over four hours. Thankfully I found an alternative. My point is that if what Skipness says is true (and I do not doubt that for a moment) BA flight times are about to get even worse for connecting passengers.

Anyway. Earlier someone mentioned the British Airways JFK flight from MAN, for pure curiosity: was this flight in the full Long Haul config (business, premium and economy) and did they have the full service business with fully flat beds etc? Finally, how many pax all together? It was a 767-300ER, was it not?

[Suzeman]

No they wouldn't. MAN has holding and slot issues that Shannon doesn't, plus SNN is under the flight path most of the time. It's a no brainer....

Well, MAN has less Holding and Slot issues than it once used to have 3 or 4 years ago and I certainly don't think getting a slot would be a problem.

However, SNN has something that no UK airport does - the US pre-clearance facility.

From the SNN website -
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (C.B.P.) facilities are available for immigration inspection of passengers travelling to the United States from Shannon Airport. The facility is located in the departures lounge.
Once a passenger has been inspected and admitted to the U.S., it will be necessary for security reasons, for them to remain in the sterile gate lounge area until boarding their aircraft.


So whilst the aircraft is re-fuelling etc, the pax can go through some of the US hassle and when they get to JFK, they just collect their bags and go through Customs without having to "stand in line" at Immigration. A nice enhancement to the business class product for BA who can't offer this on non-stops from the UK.

Suzeman

[Mister Geezer]

The only reason BACityFlyer would operate MAN-LCY is to compete with VLM since they are now part of CityJet. I think you are all reading a bit too much into any possible link between MAN-LCY and LCY-JFK.

There are a lot of obstacles that need to be overcome before we ever see a BA aircraft operate to JFK from LCY and there are a significant number of BA staff that do not expect to see the route start anyway!

BA have never marketed LCY as a transfer hub (despite it being a good alternative) and I am sure they would rather see you go through LHR even LGW.

If you look at the recent BA CityFlyer expansion and any new routes are either already operated by CityJet or in one case they are indirectly competing with Air France itself.

[caro340]

When were you last at Manchester Airport

You say it will be great to see an 340 at Manchester

What about the Air Mauritias/ BWI that use to operate via Manchester
and not to metion to Virgin Aircraft that were based heryou

Does your Mum still give you Dinner Money

Check you facts before you post Cxxp on the Forum

There i ve got it off my chest now

Should nt u be in bed by now it is 2300 LT (11 O Clock at Night to u)

Thanks for your thoughts Learjet. :rolleyes:

(Ooops I'm not in bed yet either!)

[TURIN]

Why on Earth would anyone fly from Manchester to London City to fly to Shannon then New York? Are you honestly thinking that this is the intention? To FEED an A318?

Wasn't honestly thinking anything. I was just offering a bit of speculative banter.

Sorry to have ruined your day Skipness. :ugh::rolleyes:

[parky747]

Any idea when this will be confirmed one way or another?

[ian_h1]

It's clear that MAN's arrogant position in the past is now coming back to bite it on the backside as LCC's or at least the big boys are firmly settled down the road.

But is this entirely negative? from a strategic point of view MAN needs to clarify it's offering to world airlines and without a home based airline this needs careful planning and consideration.

It needs to make itself attractive to the internationals and give them something extra.....

As no UK airport currently has US Immigration clearance could this be somthing? I'm sure there are lots of legalities but with the amount of UK Border Agency trials the airport is involved in they surely must have the right contacts. This may not have a direct impact on LHR traffic but would give them an edge over other regionals both within the UK and the rest of Europe.

Second issue is O&D vs Connecting traffic, as the LCC "big boys" have stayed away we have ended up with a reasonable LCC alternative in the form of flybe (I Know they have their faults but which arirline doesnt!).

Flybe are in a strong position and they do already offer connections, they have experience of Code Share with BA, AF, CO and the inclusive pricing necessary for this sector of the market.

Most importantly they are not alligned to any alliance.

This could play to Manchesters perceived weakness of piecemeal operators using the airport, Flybe could become the Alaska of NW UK with codeshares to its onward network. As a result we may also eventually see new destinations and the return of old favourites which would not be relying solely on O&D traffic.

Obviously BA with its 15% stake in Flybe may not want passengers being able to conncet outside of LHR but with the right offering and potentially a two way push between flybe and MAN management this could give the airport what it craves and needs.

A three way proposal including US pre-clearance would be the icing on the cake. Even in the current economic and aviation climate this could be a win win all round.

Any thoughts (and leave the flames for someone else please) :)

[viscount702]

I wouldn't bank on BE being of much help.

Despite talk to the contrary they have not expanded at MAN either with frequency or routes. The fact is they have retreated.

"Europes largest Regional" airline as the call themselves seem to want to be less regional and it is clear that they now have other fish to fry and are going to be concentrating their efforts at LGW. That is where the expansion is going to be and not in the regions as recent developments have shown

I could be wrong and hope I am wrong but they have so far done little for MAN in my opinion

[42psi]

As no UK airport currently has US Immigration clearance could this be somthing? I'm sure there are lots of legalities but with the amount of UK Border Agency trials the airport is involved in they surely must have the right contacts. This may not have a direct impact on LHR traffic but would give them an edge over other regionals both within the UK and the rest of Europe.



Ian .. I think you'll find that that the issue is the UK Govt. will not permit this as it regards the operation of US immigration officials on UK soil as an infringement of sovereignty!!

As I understand it where it operates in Eire the area where the US officials operate is formally designated as territory under US govt. authority.... the UK willl not permit this (outside of Grosvenor Square!).


One might consider this a strangely reticent position to be taken by a "semi-detached" State of the U.S. :E

[MANFlyer]

SQ are back daily from 30/5

Incorrect.

I thought SQ were just going to change the days of non operation back to Tues/Thurs ex MAN.

Correct. As per request from SQ at MAN to give them a Friday SQ327 to Changi as before.

just seen a very interesting email from head office regarding JAL, includes a 773,

ill get more when i can....

G-STAW

:ok:

One of the best ones this year. :D

[G-STAW]

it was a diversion contract for JAL, not an actual route proposal, also we commence operations with thomas cook in march.

G-STAW

[mickyman]

MANflyer re G-STAW

This guy does have a track record in relation
to Manchester news and is only trying to live
up to it!!

MM

[wiccan]

One might consider this a strangely reticent position to be taken by a "semi-detached" State of the U.S
Which is why USAF airbases are designated RAF XXXX
bb

[max zedeffdubya]

just bto say that the man-jfk 1503 was always full and usually 6 tonnes of freight but got rid of by political and costfixings/all of which were manufactured by london/we all knew the jfk service was the most profitable 767 in the fleet but willie decided to use a slot in jfk for a lgw serrvice/by getting rid of man based crew the costs were then said tobe ""excessive"/of course they were but it was part of a m,aster plan/as for bmi the open skies was only a matter of time to use the big a/c in london/both ba and bmi have crap standsa t man and a re frequently delayed by up to 15 minutes trying to push in the cul de sac

[Skipness One Echo]

That'll be the pubs shut then....

[parky747]

If BACON do start MAN - LCY what are the chances of VLM retaining their current frequencies? Not good I would guess so the airport is once again likely to see no net benefit or net increase in pax as two airlines fight over the same passengers on a route...


Would it be that the combined group of VLM/AF/KLM is probably too dominant at LCY in terms of slots they hold? Would it be the case that they may be required to dispose of some of these slots? Maybe this is how BACF may get to introduce LCY-MAN, if they have A/C to do it with even!

[Betablockeruk]

it was a diversion contract for JAL

So what's included in a 'diversion contract'?

Doubt we will ever see such a diversion with JL arrivals midday, unless of course London gets a dusting of snow ;)

[Ian Brooks]

From what I can remember contracts with handling agencies,coach companies, hotels
and restaurants are put in place at various diversion fields incase of exactly that so they don`t have to go getting quotes and things are put on standby as soon as the weather deteriorates

Ian

[Betablockeruk]

Thanks for that. I'd not appreciated the infrastructure required for a diversion particularly in the light that recent diversions are mainly 'splash & dash'.

[airhumberside]

Would it be that the combined group of VLM/AF/KLM is probably too dominant at LCY in terms of slots they hold? Would it be the case that they may be required to dispose of some of these slots? Maybe this is how BACF may get to introduce LCY-MAN, if they have A/C to do it with even!
AF/VLM/Cityjet are disposing off some LCY and AMS slots to Eastern, but otehr than that the deal has been allowed through by the OfT

[mufc4evr]

hi guys

i read this interesting report on airliners.net http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4250997/ (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4250997/)

I think some one should forward the report to MAN hierarchy.

[OltonPete]

I can't get the link to open but there was a thread today of why
Air India should make Manchester a hub.

If it is that one, it will rank as one of the funniest reads over Christmas -brilliant but unfortunately I think it is supposed to be serious.

There are one or two excellent posters on a.net but this kind of thing is what ruins it for them..........



Pete

[Skipness One Echo]

I read that "10,000 words of my own ideas to the board of Air India why I think they should have a hub at Manchester." Now I am something of an enthusiast but that gives us all a bad name. Alas I refuse to pay the fee to tell them that....

Read it if you can it's priceless!

[MidnightMoonlight]

Can anyone tell me what size aircraft wil operate the ZB morning service to AGP on 17th jan ? returning 21st??
thanks

[TSR2]

From which airport ?

[CabinCrewe]

surely the thread title is the give away for departure airport...?

[MidnightMoonlight]

just for those then a little less simple correct
Manchester?

[partyboy_uk]

Can anyone tell me what size aircraft wil operate the ZB morning service to AGP on 17th jan ? returning 21st??A321 both ways - you can tell this by proceeding as if you were booking on Monarch's website and viewing the seat chart for this aircraft :ok:

[MidnightMoonlight]

aww thanks
that will be good not been on a a321 for ages, if i have at all haha, dont think so.once i think

[sparkysam]

Was that an airbridge 747 boxing day morning. If so what was the reason for its visit. Thanks sparky

[BHX5DME]

Vp-big

Bhx5dme

[Vuelo]

Anyone know about the rumoured S7 route from MAN this summer?

[Ian Brooks]

Nice wish, but that is first I have heard of it

Ian

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

s7 wont happen as there is no government permissions for the route. Currently MAN has the rights for cargo only.

also, Ghana Airlines B757 due in to MAN today, in at 18:00, out mon 10:00 as AEU003p/004p

[Vuelo]

When is the slot handback?

[Ivor Fynn]

easyJet - new routes available on the website;

MAN - Corfu
MAN - Bastia
MAN - Athens

and more to follow soon I hear!!!!

Ivor:ok:

[eggc]

more meat on the bones...

MAN - Corfu starts May 1 x weekly
MAN - Bastia starts Aug 1 x weekly
MAN - Athens start Aug 2 x weekly

[StoneyBridge Radar]

A day flight to ATH - at last !

Prices look good, for now...

[BHX5DME]

Pax - 1,267,494 down 10.45%

2008 Pax Total - 21,406,442 down 4.27%

Movements - 13,031 down 13.58%

Freight - 9,072 tonnes down 36.73%

[RoyHudd]

MAN Retail investment 08/07 +148%

Gotta hand it to those clever MAN airport managers...they have messed up big time, wrong time. Thought they were running a shopping mall with runways....

Guess they still received their annual bonus payments a few days ago. From the local taxpayers.

[Mister Geezer]

Now for something completely different... Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about the possible return of Mahan Air to Manch? Heard a faint whisper that they may be looking at coming back in the first half of 09.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Roy Hudd -

Further to your posting *395, perhaps you could expand on exactly what you mean by Manchester Airport's management having "messed up big time, wrong time"? I may possibly agree with your final conclusions, but all I see from your posting is a damning conclusion with no presentation of supporting evidence.

I presume that you have some difficulty with the concept of Manchester Airport increasing its revenue streams from non-aviation activities such as retail? But why? Is it not eminently sensible for the business to increase income via all possible channels to help the airport weather a global economic crisis of epic proportions?

Yes, passenger numbers and cargo tonnage have fallen (and they will fall further). Yes, airline companies have retrenched or ceased trading (and others will follow). Yes, Manchester has endured considerable pain (and that will continue). But conditions driven by the global economic situation are not within the control of Manchester Airport's management. All they can do is mitigate damage caused to the business by protecting and nurturing those revenue streams which they do have the ability to influence. Increasing the retail take seems one entirely sensible way of doing this; the remaining 20 million plus annual passenger throughput and the several thousand staff still have worthwhile (if reduced) spending power. Maybe they will trade down from luxury goods to utility goods, but ultimately many will spend, and if they do so at Manchester Airport so much the better.

An airport is a business with very high fixed costs which MUST be paid regardless of economic conditions. If retail can help to achieve service of these costs at a time when revenue from the aviation side of the business is contracting, then I say bring it on! I am not averse to criticizing airport managers on occasions when that is merited (MAN's famous never-functioning lifts/escalators etc!), but on the matter of encouraging retail expansion I can't fault their logic.

The UK economy is in a deep recession; other key economies are similarly afflicted. Transition to global economic depression cannot be ruled out. In these circumstances, air services to Manchester (and elsewhere) will be adversely impacted. The airport management don't like that situation any more than you or I, but it is completely beyond their control. This is a problem caused by criminal irresponsibility at the highest levels of the international banking sector, complicit regulators and clueless politicians. It is not the fault of MAG. All they can do is protect their business from the resulting economic fallout to the best of their ability. I cannot fault them for seeking to increase revenues from all areas of the business - including retail - at this difficult time. I can't see how that can be described as "messing up big time, wrong time." The management response makes complete sense to me.

I would welcome a response to clarify your position on this issue.

Cheers, SHED.

Added Comment: Re Bonus Payments to MAN Airport Management Personnel. If any such payments have been made (and I don't know whether that is the case or not) then they will not be borne by the taxpayer. Indeed, over recent years Manchester Airport has been a substantial net contributor to the funding of the ten local authorities comprising Greater Manchester through the payment of regular dividends. This has made the council tax burden on local taxpayers LESS than it would otherwise have been. The airport also makes voluntary contributions (sponsorships etc) to several community schemes in its surrounding districts. MAG is not a drain on taxpayers in Greater Manchester. And nationally, MAG has paid regular taxes to the exchequer on its annual profits to the benefit of the wider community.

[mufc4evr]

I know wikipedia isnt the most reliable of sources but i read on there that Royal Brunei has the authority to operate to MAN 4xWeekly.

Is this true?

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

They have had the rights for a while, but are yet to use them (And I dont think they will)

Also, Delta using the B767-400 MAN-ATL:

Delta 65 (javascript:openWin('http://www.delta.com/booking/flightDetails.do?airCd=DL&airName=Delta&fltNum=0065&dDay=08&dMon=Jul&dCityCode=MAN&aCityCode=ATL&onTimePercent=NULL','equipmentDetail',510,310))
Boeing 767-400ER
In-Flight Services (javascript:openWin('http://www.delta.com/booking/flightDetails.do?airCd=DL&airName=Delta&fltNum=0065&dDay=08&dMon=Jul&dCityCode=MAN&aCityCode=ATL&onTimePercent=NULL&inflight=true','inflightservices',510,310))
Coach (H)
View Seats (javascript:openWin('http://www.delta.com/ism/servlet/ISMServlet?cmd=LSM&commandContext=na?1?1&flightSegment=1?1?65?Y?MAN?08Jul?10:50am?ATL?08Jul?3:00pm?0? STD_PARTY','LSM',750,580))


Taken from Delta.com themselves

[spannersatcx]

links don't work:sad:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Quote
easyJet - new routes available on the website;

MAN - Corfu
MAN - Bastia
MAN - Athens

Reply
Count me out going to CFU - Once was enough!

Corfu's a S***Hole.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

While I'm here, What's behind all the AEA flights into MAN - TFS by the 'Bucket loads'

Saturday there was a row of them in early doors on the stands.

Extra capacity or filling the GAP left by XL?

[Ian Brooks]

Very much depends on what part of the island you go to and what resort or village
do your research first and there is something for everyone

Ian

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

BYALPHAINDIA -

The extra Air Europa capacity to MAN was laid on to provide seats for tour operators offering additional holiday stock over the Christmas / New Year period. There is a big market for holidays over the 'festive' season with families avoiding dilemmas over whether to visit "his" or "her" parents on the key days! Holiday packages sold over this period command a significant price premium for tour operators, and they can easily sell extra capacity if they can source aircraft and hotel space for this two week period only. Last Winter, Futura and LTE were in demand; this time Air Europa pretty much cornered the market.

Cheers, SHED.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Okay, Cheers Shed.

Just been looking on Etihad's site:

June - MAN - ABD return X 2 = 566.00 Incl taxes etc.

That is for a 4 night duration.

Not a bad price, Compared to 'Emiroids' (EK) who charge about that per pax!

Abu Dhabi is about 1 hour from Dubai on the train.

[GavinC]

I can assure you Abu Dhabi is not about an hour to Dubai on the train as there are no trains in the UAE, nor the Gulf for that matter. Only 'train' will be Dubai Metro Red Line when it opens.

AUH is on the outskirts of the city and is about an hour or so's drive from Jebil Ali in Dubai. Central Dubai (around the creek) is another half hour or so but it all depends on the level of gridlock on Shiekh Zayed Road.

[MUFC_fan]

Try MAN-AUH-DXB. Usually you will see little or no difference on the price.

I went to China last year with EK from MAN and it was exactly the same price from MAN-DXB as it was for MAN-DXB-China.

[MUFC_fan]

It seems to be coming more and more apparent to many of us on here that MAG is starting to become more like the Trafford Centre than Changi. But what is the aim of a business? To please it's stakeholders and MAG looks like it wants to please it's financial stakeholders more so than any other.

Its main aim as a business is to make money and if the airport is gaining more and more shops, surely their main aim is to attract more passengers to spend in their shops.

I know people say that by attracting locos they are attracting low spenders but surely, as we see that easyJet are to carry 650,000 people this summer - these are more likely to spend more money than the number of passengers, say QR carry every year.

So as a business more locos is good for business but for the public and the passengers travelling through it is less so.

What people think - is this the plan of MAG or is it just a general, global transition being made at many ex-legacy airports?

[Curious Pax]

Global trend - in some respects Manchester has been a bit behind the times in its shopping offerings. Gatwick Village to name one long running example. A business has to make money, and if it thinks that can be done by adding shops rather than open space then it will do so. Don't know why people are getting het up about being forced to walk through shops - it's been a trick at airports around the world for ages too. I think some of us are just averse to change.

By the way - the stakeholders are those with a financial interest. We are just customers (well I suppose I am both as my local council is one of the owners) and so are irrelevant as far as MAG's financials results are concerned.

[AndyH52]

I think that the 650,000 passengers Eaysjet hope to carry ex-MAN this summer are but a drop in the ocean compared to the potential falls in overall pax numbers due to the loss of XL and consolidation of the IT sector. MAG can put in as many shops as it likes to boost spend but you need the punters to pass though the doors in the first place. If December's 10% fall in passengers is any sign of the year to come then times are going to get tough. There is the potential for a big financial hole to be filled - even at say income lost of £20 per pax (purely arbitrary, I admit - by the time security and passenger charges and the income from car parking and other revenues is taken into account the figure could be higher) even a modest 5% drop in pax next year could result in a drop in income of around £20 million and as has been said by other posters costs are generally pretty fixed.

In addition any extra revenue from retail may well have to be offset against any incentives or lower fees offered to new carriers (LOCO or otherwise). All in all times are going to be hard...

[MUFC_fan]

By the way - the stakeholders are those with a financial interest. We are just customers (well I suppose I am both as my local council is one of the owners) and so are irrelevant as far as MAG's financials results are concerned.


Stakeholders are a person or group of people with a direct interest in the performance of a company. This includes the local community from business to people.

If say, QR were to pull out of MAN, it would cost a minibus company a loss in a daily job plus the hotel that houses the crew overnight a loss in a number of hotel rooms. If U2 were to increase routes and aircraft, this would not benefit the local business, but will create more jobs so they balance themselves really. The local community is a stakeholder, of any company (not taking into account Manchester's ownership of MAG) but the people who live under the flightpath are stakeholders - they don't want planes over their houses and growth will mean more planes which they don't want.

I do understand that XL has left a large gap in the passenger numbers from MAN but surely with TOM/FCA merging - why are they removing a/c when their is a hole there? Surely they would want to keep them at MAN to benefit from the drop in competition and take up the extra passengers?

What are TCX/MYT doing anyway? Are they keeping the same number of aircraft at MAN, expanding or reducing?

[shobakker]

Thought that the easiest way to Dubai from AUH with Etihad was their coach service which drops you at their offices on SZR in Dubai?

[wiccan]

If I am flying from A to B either for a holiday [Loco or Tour Op], or on Business, I cannot see for the life of me, just why I should spend my hard earned dosh in any airport "shopping centre" for an "Experience" that is 20-50% more expensive than Tesco/Asda, when you can buy said "Tat" at your destination for 1/2 the price....

[lplsprog]

Wiccan is obviously not a woman:oh:

[Vuelo]

FR base to be announced soon at MAN?

[AUTOGLIDE]

MAN needs the commercial developments going on in the terminals. It had, until, recently the most boring, depressing terminals in which to spend time. Terminal 2 was particularly bad, a soulless empty shell of a building with one airside bar and a lack of food choice, an utterly awful place to be stuck for any length of time. The airport experience is a part of any flight experience, if MAN can be made less boring then all the better to retain passengers. Just because other areas of the airport need attention does not mean that that would happen if the terminal developments had not.

[GLENO]

FR base to announced Vuelo? ....says who?

[Deep and fast]

Manchester airport needed some working runway lights this morning? Aircraft diverting due cat 2 conditions and the lights were broken.

Or maybe someone forgot to put some money in the meter :E

D and F

[Skipness One Echo]

The airport experience is a part of any flight experience

Yes true, however do you want a BAA focus where people are enticed to part with as much money as possible between security and gate or a London City where the brief is to get you on your way with as little fuss and hassle as possible. There is a difference between a noce bar or place to eat and a branch of HMV to part you from your cash.

[Curious Pax]

Different airports, different functions: LCY make a big deal about the fact that you can be through the formalities very quickly, and so don't have any of this 'turn up 2-3 hours prior to departure' nonsense. As such they appeal to business travellers who pay big bucks for their tickets - and I suspect that the charges LCY levy per pax is greater than the BAA airports. BAA airports make their money differently, with a greater proportion of income from the percentage they take from the retailers.

[Skipness One Echo]

LCY have the right number of staff in place for the passenger throughput, it's Airports 1-01. BAA Airports have been screamed at by all their airlines for not even bothering their arse to attempt this until forced to recently.

You do NOT have to be airside 2-3 hours before a flight, in 17 years of flying I have never *Had* to be airside more than 35 minutes before departure time and that's with a 30 minute gate closure that was never enforced as the aircraft was never on stand until departute -35.....

It's different for the once a year shellsuits though I guess.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Yes the shops, bars and restaraunts may be frustrating for regular flyers, but you need to remember one simple fact:

Manchester airport is a business, not a service. If it chooses to make more revenue from facilities such as shops, then it will do.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Some more stupidity next monday:

Hundreds of anti-aviation protesters are expected to give the government a nasty shock when they return to Parliament after their Winter Recess on Monday 12th January. Protesters from the environmental action group, 'The Climate Rush' will be holding a sit-down picnic at the Departures Gate of Terminal One in Heathrow Airport. The dinner will begin at 7pm sharp and is expected to last several hours. At the same time the Northern Climate Rush will hit Manchester Airport Terminal 3 (Domestic Departures).

[chiglet]

Why don't they have their "picnic" outside the Palace of Westminster?
Oh, that would be an act of Terrorism....:ugh: according to Gords ex boss :*

[Mister Geezer]

Yes true, however do you want a BAA focus where people are enticed to part with as much money as possible between security and gate or a London City where the brief is to get you on your way with as little fuss and hassle as possible. There is a difference between a noce bar or place to eat and a branch of HMV to part you from your cash.

The only reason LCY is not a shopping centre is due to lack of retail space. In an ideal world they would have you parting with your cash - just like any airport.

[MUFC_fan]

Isn't it because mostly business passengers use the airport meaning most will be pushing the 15 minute check in deadline so there will be little amount of people using the facilities in the terminal?

That's what a certain aviation magazine said that did a report recently.....

[AUTOGLIDE]

It's not a case of the 'shell suits' turning up hours before a flight and business travellers being right at the last minute. I am a business traveller for my job as well as working at MAN, and often end up at airports a long time due to delays, transfers or simply because business concluded much earlier than the next available flight. That being the case, I like terminals with a lot of shops and restaurants, it gives me something to do and look at whilst I wait, allows me to pick up books, presents or whatever I choose. The airport isn't 'fleecing' me, if I don't want something I don't buy it. I'll take shops over empty boring space any time. If MAN is to become better in that respect brilliant, and then in the summer I might be able to walk more than 20 feet through T2 without a passenger asking me 'Are these the only places to buy food from?' whilst looking at the 300 foot long queue at Burger king and the place next door.

[GavinC]

I agree with that. As a business traveller, I give myself 'reasonable' time at the airport in most cases and enjoy a browse of the books and a choice of food. I particularly like the seats in giraffe T1 which have a view of the planes.
Shops are good for passengers so long as there are still enough seats to sit in should you choose, the shops dont make you go on detours you dont want to and you dont have to walk through them should you not want too.
Based on the above, the new location of Duty Free at T1 i dont like but the new food places on the mazzanine level i do like.
Surely its all about choice?

[Momentary Lapse]

Shed:

If MAN management don't give themselves bonuses, the money saved could be added to the dividend given to the 10 local authority shareholders, which could be used to reduce council tax increases.

I suspect those dividends will be down again this year, but the bonuses will still given, if not increased.

Any discretionary expenditure could be added to the dividend instead.

That is the point that Roy Hudd was trying to make, imho.

[mickyman]

'discretionary expenditure'

What an interesting term that is!!

imho - sic

MM

[Momentary Lapse]

Thanks MM. By which I mean money that doesn't have to be spent, yet the company will keep going: mgmt bonuses, gallivanting away days, new company cars etc. rather than say rent, maintenance, snow clearing etc. which have to be paid or else the business stops.

Any discretionary expenditure could be returned to shareholders as extra divident without hurting profits or the business' effectiveness.

So in that sense, the taxpayers of GM are paying mgmt bonuses.

[Momentary Lapse]

Fancy a laugh? Re-read Mr Muirhead's growth predictions. They were funny enough a couple of years ago; today they'll make you weep.

House of Commons - Transport - Minutes of Evidence (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmtran/454-ii/3031912.htm)

Secondly, I'd like to share with you a prediction I made a couple of years back.

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/238076-train-train-driver.html#post2769962

Sad, but true.

[mickyman]

ML 'discretionary expenditure'

by which you mean the normal 'management benefits'
from a successful business?

Goodness knows what clowns would be on the board
at MAplc if they didnt have a package like.............oh
hang on a moment.........sorry just realised my mistake!

MM

[Momentary Lapse]

:)

That's what I mean. But as you say, they only apply to successful businesses.

Define "successful" in the context of MAG's performance recently.

[Vuelo]

Runour of a FR announcement, linked to Hahn changes??

[caro340]

Sorry if I missed this one, but has anyone heard any more about the rumoured return of Air Canada this summer or was it just that?

[Trash_Hauler]

Anything CONFIRMED yet on the Jet2 handling contract yet?

[1station]

No official announcement yet. Plenty of rumours but no firm evidence. :confused:

[Vuelo]

AC won't be back.

[TechProblem]

Anything CONFIRMED yet on the Jet2 handling contract yet?

From another Thread, regarding Menzies, Its says that Gate Handling will take over the Jet2 Contract from the 1st March.

Cant see it at the moment, as they dont have anything at Manchester?

Unless someone knows anything more about Gate Handling coming into MAN?

[mantug01]

Gate are already in MAN, but they only do the cleaning. They are / or have just started Ramp ops in NCL.

Don't think MAN really needs 6 Ramp Handling Agents.....

[scrapy]

On the main page of manairport.co.uk there is a feature saying 'so many cities to fly to direct from Manchester'. Whilst most of these cities have direct flights from Manchester; Bucharest, Madrid, Moscow, St Petersburg and Venice do not. Are Manchester Airport expecting route announcements? or are they just trying to make their route network sound better than it is? The title of the feature does say 'direct'.

[GavinC]

does anyone have a link to the planned apron expansion at T3? I cant seem to find it on the web or MAN's own website.

[Ivan aromer]

Also there is no direct flight MAN-NCE in the winter; Jet2 do a short run in the summer but come winter nothing. Strange how the LPL-NCE runs all year with reported excellent load factors.

[viscount702]

Does anyone know why the works at the end of Pier B and new apron at T3 are running way behind schedule

According to the Original NOTAM all work was to be finished by December.

The latest Supplement states the work will be continuing to May.

[johnnychips]

Ivan answers his own question really. There can only be so many people from the NW region who want to travel there, and the market opportunities have been gladly taken up by LPL. I'm sorry I'm too tired to look it up but I presume it's FR or EZY.

[Bagso]

...a deafening response from the management at Manchester re the proposed 3rd runway at LHR !

[mickyman]

Bagso

What were you expecting?

MM

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Jet2 have announced MAN-TLV, 1x weekly starting in May, rising to 2x weekly in july.
Not huge news, but good to see TLV will stay on the departure boards once TOM leave the route

[conradmueller]

I remember the El Al 707´s in the past at MAN.

[eggc]

...tailed by heavily armed Army vans from Runway to gate and back !

[Aksai Oiler]

I enjoyed sitting on the plane :} and the security checks :(

[Scottie Dog]

I notice from the AIP that the new section of Terminal 3 apron, stands 56-58, is showing from 9th February. Does not necessarily mean this is the date on which it will become operational, but at least it now looks to becoming close to completion.

Hopefully, for ATC, stopbar G6 will be selectable and thus permit better LVP operations.

Scottie Dog

[viscount702]

Where is the relevant AIP because I can't find it on the NATS site

[Scottie Dog]

Please check your PMs

[Tulsablue]

Just a little note to put Manchester back on top where it belongs:ok:

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

First question:

Anyone know the exact problem with N274AY (US A330-300)? Its spending its 3rd night in MAN tonight, so must be a major problem to be grounded this long.

Also, AA have announced that the B757-200 is going TATL from JFK. MAN is tipped to be a new route from there as AA enjoyed the connecting pax BA supplied and want a piece ofthat action back, with the B757 being a perfect a/c for the route.

If it does happen, hopefully it wont have any implications on CO/DL. Ithink with B757's, there is room for 4 daily frequencies, as we used to have it with BA, and that was with 2x B757 from Continental, 1x B767-400 from Delta (back when they started) and 1x B767-300 from BA.

Time will tell

[MUFC_fan]

Four daily flights is definitely manageable with all three major alliances on the route which should get the competition going!

The 757 is the perfect aircraft to have a frequency of 4 daily flights and I seriously think it would work.

I just hope, if this route has been thought up, BA don't step in and if they want to launch it, it is an afternoon flight, which I doubt it will be.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

I hope BA dont come and balls it up either. Apparently LHR-NYC is a bloodbath t the minute, and the new AA route could take some more pax away from that market (granted, a B757 wont take away that many, but in this economic climate, all the pax count.)

Like I say, AA did benefit from the route back when BA had it, and have always stated that they would like to operate it, just not with a B767 as its too big and not viable.

Anyway, if they have been waiting for a B757 to operate the route, why wait this long, why not use the aircraft they had on BOS-MAN? that was a B757.

[Skipness One Echo]

Firstly I don't think this is going to come back as Manchester - New York is already well served and American have been unable to operate a succesful second route from MAN having binned JFK, BOS, DFW and MIA.

Secondly can someone confirm that the Saudia opearates RIH-JED-GVA-MAN?

Is that right? Two stops from Riyadh surely means it's less hassle over LHR?

Thanks

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

AA have internally announced that one of the routes being launched will be JFK-MAN-JFK.

Now that they have internationally configured B75L's on the way, they are also re-evaluating BOS, as last time it was not loads that let the service down, it was the way in which the flight was operated/sold.

[MUFC_fan]

NYC does need more competition and as much as we would love to see CO and DL increase their equipment size on the routes it is much more beneficial to MAN to have 3 different airlines. It now opens up more of the Caribbean and South America to MAN via JFK than it did before via ORD (I think) and for all TATL passengers on the route it will keep fares down unlike the rising prices we have been seeing recently due to the duopoly.

BOS would be a very nice return. I am guessing these would both be daily?

[Skipness One Echo]

That and the fact it was completely seasonal and had no feed. The only other long haul AA had at BOS was Paris and London. I don't think that since Boston wasn't succesful in recent ( boom times ) it will be more succesful due to an internal accounting whizz when it is very difficult in some firms to be approved allowed to fly on business.

I doubt seasonal VFR to the North West is at the top of the boardroom plans at DFW somehow. Could be wrong though. More competition IS good for fares but the flip side is that no one makes any money as yields dive. Hence you could have 2 Continentals, 1 Delta and 1 AA one summer and half that the next. as fleets go where the yield is. Be careful what you wish for chaps.

( happened at Glasgow )

It was partly the reason that BA left was that yields were falling. I know there were other reasons but the arrival of Delta added a lot of capacity.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

The connections offered at JFK are different to those at ORD, so AA can sustain both routes.

BOS would be daily, but seasonal just like it used to be at MAN. Like I said, it was the fact that the whole setup was wrong last time, and the fact it operated more than one season is testement to the fact that this could be a good route.

The fact is, AA have sat back and let BA dictate how the regions should work in the UK, but AA have seen pax numbers dwindle due to other carriers on route AA would happily operate, and now AA have turned around and said to BA, 'enough is enogh'

Now AA want a piece of the TATL pie that CO/DL have been feasting on

[pwalhx]

I remember as I was still Manchester based at the time, discussing the JFK flight with the AA rep when they dropped it, it was very much down to BA being on the route and feeding pax. As BA are not on the route anymore the situation is somewhat different, so hence the re-evaluation one would guess.

Re Saudia, I find my self struggling with the concept of anything being more hassle than transitting Heathrow.

[Skipness One Echo]

but AA have seen pax numbers dwindle due to other carriers on route AA would happily operate, and now AA have turned around and said to BA, 'enough is enogh'

What are you basing this on? Their core Chicago route isn't even daily this winter and you've got them ADDING capacity in the worst recession in living memory. Earth to planespotters, reality check please!!!!

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Actually, they are going back up to daily again so things are back up. Granted there are lots of other routes they could have done this to, but the reduction was due to the B763's needed for carribean routes.

Also, I am not a planespotter and to start throwing childish slurs around is just pointless, it adds nothing to the post other than a sense of arrogance

[lexxity]

AA are currently recruiting extra ground staff for the summer, 2 permanent and 4 temporary.

[Full_Service_SLF]

Late last year someone mentioned that Air Canada was resuming flights from Manchester on 29th March. I can't find any evidence of this and nothing seems to be bookable. Any ideas?

[Skipness One Echo]

I think the more likely take is that the 18 B757s that AA are putting on the atlantic are covering the roughly similar number of B767s that are going to replace the grounded A300s. I'd be surprised if there was a marked expansion, looks more like a sensible reshuffle of assets.

[TURIN]

AA have internally announced that one of the routes being launched will be JFK-MAN-JFK.

Now that they have internationally configured B75L's on the way, they are also re-evaluating BOS,

AA are currently recruiting extra ground staff for the summer, 2 permanent and 4 temporary.

Who have they announced it to? The AA staff at MAN don't seem to know anything about it.

Possible BOS this summer but a JFK is next year at the earliest surely.

[mufc4evr]

Hi

I know wikipedia isnt the best source but i read this on the MAN airport section of wiki:

FedEx Express (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express)Birmingham, Newark, Memphis, Frankfurt, Indianapolis, Oakland (start in september 2009)


Is this true???

[steve platt]

Newark on a 757 true.
Memphis on md11 true.
Birmingham and paris on atr42 true.
Others no.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Newark and Memphis are due to start.
Oakland was due to start but current economic climate means no
Indeanapolis is planned as a tag on from STN but I dont know how thats progressing

BHX/CDG are ATR72 routes, along with GLA/NCL and I think other destinations

[Skipness One Echo]

Thought FedEx had pulled out of MAN.
What's the routing you guys are talking about?
MAN-EWR
MAN-OAK
MAN-BHX ??

[Ian Brooks]

MAN-EWR, MAN-MEM and then connecting flights, it was due to start in Feb but I believe delayed to September


Ian

[mufc4evr]

Okay thanks for the info.

Also, is the route a chinese airline was going to operate during 2009 still happening?

thnaks

[steve platt]

Fed ex flights are indeed now planned to start in sept.
China airlines had planned to start pax ops this march but due to the current economic climate this 2 has been delayed poss until next march(2010).

[viscount702]

A quick check of the timetable shows that WW have been dropping flights on a number of routes.

I don't think they have dropped a destination other than MAD announced earlier but have reduced frequency on a number of Destinations

[Vuelo]

I predict LIS/BCN to go too, given the state of the euro.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

With the forecasts for London not good tomorrow, Id say tomorrow is MAN's best hopes to see the A380.

[TURIN]

With the forecasts for London not good tomorrow, Id say tomorrow is MAN's best hopes to see the A380.

Oh goody!

I'll give up my day off and go in to work just on the off chance that we get a divert. :rolleyes:

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Oh goody!

I'll give up my day off and go in to work just on the off chance that we get a divert. :rolleyes:

Has that post made you feel better? Can tell your in an excellent mood tonight. If that the type of response people get for posting on here, no wonder the Manchester forum lies dormant for days :rolleyes:

[daz211]

Loads of diverts tonight in the south, LGW closed (SNOW), LHR seems ok.
I am hoping that here at STN we may see the A380 tomorrow, however the snow is coming down here hard now and is due to get alot worse.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

As far as Im aware, STN isnt capable for the A380 yet. I thought it was just LHR/LGW/MAN, then if all else fails, divert to AMS/FRA/MUC?

[MUFC_fan]

I think each airline has different airports which they use.

I think MAN, CDG and AMS are the 3 main ones.

What happens on the visa front? If one landed in CDG would they need French visas? I'm guessing MAN would be the main choice as at least it is still in the same country.

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Well, EK has already pre-requested MAN apparently, which makes sense.
MAN can only handle 1, and I doubt LGW will be able to take one if weather is the problem, so the other 2 will need to divert abroad if all 3 are diverted.

Obvioulsy thats a worst case scenario though

[MAN777]

So we could have EK, SQ and QF all scrapping over the one slot ??

Surely if it was urgent that restriction of one aircraft only would be lifted ?

Theres tons of room at MAN at the moment !!

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Not just a question of room, but its about the stands capable of holding the A380, and mnouvering the other aircraft/equipment around them. Once the work at the end of T1 is fully complete, we can handle 2, and im sure there could be work done on the cargo ramp to hold some more. Being freight ramps with aircraft tethers, im sure they can be made sturdy enough to hold some A380's

[MUFC_fan]

I'm sure if was the case that 3 planes needed to land and have limited fuel supplies then obviously they will make provisions to get the planes on the ground.

Say all London airports were closed due to snow and MAN could accept 1, either the other two would have to go out into Europe or if MAN's 2nd runway was closed - maybe putting them there would work? I am sure that if they need to get on the ground, they will do somewhere! They can only stay in the air for a certain time!

[virgin_cc_wannabe]

Im sure that in an extreme case, the NOTAMS can be relaxed and all 3 sent to MAN.
Maybe hold one on the allocated stand, and the other 2 on the taxiway between R1 and R2.
I remember on the EUFA cup final day, they parked some MD-80's at the end of Runway 2 and on the taxiway I mentioned above, and the operated R2 at reduced legnth.

[MUFC_fan]

Do they have any stairs for the top deck of the A380?

[MAN777]

no QF due tomorrow

SQ at 6.20 am
EK at 10ish

[mufc4evr]

So what were the diverts into MAN, i heard 650 flts have been cancelled at LHR alone.

[ACCMan]

Overnight various FR/EZY. Then this morning .... 2 x BA 744 / 1 x AA 772 / 1 x CO 772 / 1 x CO 752 / 1 x SK 146 (Atlantic Airways) / 1 x LH 146 / 1 x BA 763. EK001 due EGLL @ 1506, just as the next waive of snow is due to arrive. EGCC is No1 alt.

[mufc4evr]

Apparently SIN has put MAN as a 1st choice diversion airport, but with us only able to handle one at a time.

Im sure we wud be able to find a space :ok:

[pwalhx]

Let's look on the rbight side, if the A380 isn't diverted I see the MEN says we did get Julia Roberts!

[mufc4evr]

I have heard that MAN is handling BHX diverts also now. It has recieved more BAs and AA aircraft.

[TURIN]

Has that post made you feel better? Can tell your in an excellent mood tonight. If that the type of response people get for posting on here, no wonder the Manchester forum lies dormant for days

Better to let it lie dormant than to turn it into an extension of the Spotters forum. :zzz:

[al446]

Why abroad for 380 divert? Can't PWK handle them, one of the longest r/ways in the country.

Just a thought.:O