MANCHESTER - 7

[ManofMan]

No scan, no flight at MAN

Cant see the problem here, if you have noting to hide and it makes travelling safer then what is the problem :ugh:

[MUFC_fan]

If there is one good thing to say about this government is that when it comes to security they don't p*ussy around.

Cements MAN's place as one of the safest airports outside of Israel.

[Manchester Kurt]

Flew into Manchester from Geneva yesterday, the lack of snow just a couple of miles from the airport compared to the deep lying snow at the airport was amazing.

As close as Sharston appeared to be clear of snow, but about 10cm around the runways.

From the view as we came over the UK only the immediate area around the airport had any snow whatsoever.

[DCS99]

"Cant see the problem here, if you have noting to hide and it makes travelling safer then what is the problem"

I think the problem is putting children in those machines.
Would you put your children inside?

[Apple1234]

"Cant see the problem here, if you have noting to hide and it makes travelling safer then what is the problem"


Ah but could they detect one of the new "cock" shaped firearms?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I think the problem is like this.
Would you fly your a/c into building?
Would you try to blow your a/c up?
Answer l hope to both questions is NO.
Would a terrorist fly into a building, has been done, so answer would be YES.
So what is to stop them using children?
So if you don't want to go through the scanner or want your children to, then you have your answer, go by train, boat or what ever, but not by plane.
It is simple, you have a choice. :ok:

[Tight Seat]

I don't think a 'naked scanner' stops you flying into a building.

[MUFC_fan]

Would you fly your a/c into building?


If Top Gear producers could relate it to cars then yes...


Would you try to blow your a/c up?


Again, only the smallest of reasons needed...


So if you don't want to go through the scanner or want your children to, then you have your answer, go by train, boat or what ever, but not by plane.
It is simple, you have a choice.


Well summed up. We seem to live in a society where everything it wrong - there is always a problem.

Personally, I feel the authorities have made the perfect call on this issue: I would rather them see my b*ll*cks on a screen than on 'Air Crash Investigation' twelve months later...

[paully]

MUFC

`If there is one good thing to say about this government is that when it comes to security they dont p*ussy around`

Sorry but I cant stop laughing...The one thing this lot have never done right is security. Its alway been knee jerk, its always been well ok but lets not upset certain minorities and its always been for show rather than to ensure effect. Someone quoted on here a while back that UK security is more for the reassurance of the gullible than stopping those it needs to. Good quote.

Israeli security is the gold standard, if this government were not p*ussying about and were serious, those are the measures that it would adopt. But hey that would involve certain political decisions, that we all know they havent the balls for :ugh:

They are so serious about Airport security that they have put it in the hands of `for profit` private security companies who employ a lot of minimum wage staff. Why are the Police not involved at security, as an overview. The Guardia civil are in Spain.....

Sorry cant share your view......as this line of business is what I did for a living for many decades...

[AircraftOperations]

I'd put my kids inside with no problems.

Especially as I believe that people have tried to use kids and their bags/prams/toys/clothing to hide banned articles in the past.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I know, it is just a point l was trying to make, you can not second guess those type of people on what they will do.

[MUFC_fan]

paully,

I guess you are not a Labour fan!:ok:


Why are the Police not involved at security, as an overview.


The main reason for why police are not involved with security is that it is a waste of resources.

Police are trained in a similar way to the military (with some obvious differences!) They are given basic training before going to do certain jobs which they will then train to do: SO19, CID etc.

By training Police and then having them work airport security is of many things a complete waste of money. Would you really pay up to £36,000 for a PC to walk around an airport?! Police are highly trained to do what they do and spending £millions per year for them to do a job a private firm can provide for much cheaper is economic suicide.

As you will see, Police are present at all airports in many forms, often seen in the terminals, kitted out in expensive kit, holding large guns which they are VERY highly trained to use. THAT is what they are for - not for looking at a hand baggage screen all day.

Comments like that do seem to show that you HAVE worked in that sort of industry, and have never even looked at the economics of it.

I do very much agree with your comments about Israeli operations - this should be a benchmark our government should work to. Much cheaper and more effective. Having used Tel Aviv I can safely (no pun intended) say that it is the quickest and most relaxed experience I have ever had in an airport. It would certainly benefit using airports in the plane v train debate for domestic flights.

[Tight Seat]

Does anyone know how many potential terrorists have been 'caught' at Man security? What percentage of confiscated liquids have ever turned out to be ' bomb grade'?

Its just high profile Orwellian scaremongering, keep the Proles in check by telling them that if they don't strip naked for the scanner , they are guilty of 'thought-terror'.

[rapidman47]

I guess you are not a Labour fan!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Is anybody? There again you coming from the cobbled end of the M6 explains alot :E

[MUFC_fan]

I haven't a clue on numbers but surely it is worth every penny spent if it even saves the lives of 40 people on an ATR going to Guernsey as it is on a 747 to MCO.

You cannot put a value on life and I think it is worth every all the effort and £s to make it the case that we arrive at our destination as safe as possible...

[paully]

Dont like getting into tit for tat, so glad we are agreed on the Israeli aspect. With regard to Police involvement, they need to be there for a professional overview of the security staff whatever the cost, not having PC`s checking every bag, obviously. Funnily enough when the IRA was at its height a similar Police presence was operated at airports like manchester.

Clearly security, these days, is done to a price and we all get what we are required to pay for. Best wishes

[Tight Seat]

MUFC,

Do I feel any safer on my a/c because the entire passenger and crew load have been stripped ? No

Do I have the right to go to work unmolestered in order to hold up my end of the security chain? Yes

If these scanners are so bloomin important to flight safety why not have them at the gate and not before the glorified shopping mall? Don't say cost, cos its not about money its about safety , yeah?

[MUFC_fan]

Is anybody? There again you coming from the cobbled end of the M6 explains alot


29% (YouGov) at the moment, and when working on our constituency boundaries (which do favour Labour quite a lot) would mean a split government and if Labour were to work with the Lib Dems, the actually, we would be in for another four years of a Labour government.

I for one do not vote for ANY of the three major parties but being involved in economics since school, from my opinion, Cameron's policies are amateurish at best and I ask you to find another government (of a similar economic position) in the world following their policies. Anyway, that is a story for another day.


Clearly security, these days, is done to a price and we all get what we are required to pay for.


Very much agree with you there.


Do I feel any safer on my a/c because the entire passenger and crew load have been stripped ? No

:confused: "Stripped?"


Do I have the right to go to work unmolestered in order to hold up my end of the security chain? Yes


I HAVE to see how you can justify you being "molested":}


If these scanners are so bloomin important to flight safety why not have them at the gate and not before the glorified shopping mall? Don't say cost, cos its not about money its about safety , yeah?


Put them at the gate - what difference does that make?!:confused:

[daynehold]

Thanks DCS99

Arriving back in March, let me buy you a lemonade

Are you prepared to make it a double?

[daynehold]

My view on this was published in a rebutable daily paper early January:

It is surely a matter of luck that the terrorist attempt to destroy Flight 253 flight failed, but it emphasises the need for constant vigilance and enhanced security for all passengers. This year, Manchester airport introduced passenger X-ray scanning, which was subjected to problems and criticism not least from those purporting to uphold human rights. Indeed, I believe that an early decision was made not to screen passengers under the age of 18.
The rationale for such a decision doesn't stand up to any kind of reasoned scrutiny. If my memory serves me correctly I also recall that certain sectors of our society refused to be screened by "sniffer dogs", it being contrary to their faith or beliefs. I don't, for one moment question the right of any individual to hold a particular view. But when that belief either impinges on, or may threaten, the lives of others, a line has to be drawn. Those wishing to travel by air must be prepared to subject themselves to whatever security measures are deemed necessary. If not, they don't travel.
"Daynehold" (Name changed for obvious reasons)
Stockport, Cheshire

Again I recognise that my view will offend some people. But before they reply please can they reflect on another Human Right - the right to life.

And if anyone out there tries to identify me may I remind them of the right to privacy.

[wanna_be_there]

On a seperate note to some much earlier posts (seen as Ive just joined), I would like to point out that SQ are not really offering first class from MAN come 28th March. Yes you can get to MUC in F, but try booking a whole MAN-SIN F class ticket, and I dont know about anyone else but it tells me that 'Singapore Airlines does not offer First class on this route' and offers J class fares instead.....

Seems to me, MUC has pilfered our flight number and the new routing is of more benefit to MUC travellers, not MAN's. Ah well.

Therefore, if EK do offer F with the A380, they will be the only longhaul route that does so.

over and out! :)

[Centrefire]

Israeli security.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does this entail?

[MUFC_fan]

On a seperate note to some much earlier posts (seen as Ive just joined), I would like to point out that SQ are not really offering first class from MAN come 28th March. Yes you can get to MUC in F, but try booking a whole MAN-SIN F class ticket, and I dont know about anyone else but it tells me that 'Singapore Airlines does not offer First class on this route' and offers J class fares instead.....

Seems to me, MUC has pilfered our flight number and the new routing is of more benefit to MUC travellers, not MAN's. Ah well.

Therefore, if EK do offer F with the A380, they will be the only longhaul route that does so.

over and out!


They do offer it on MAN-SIN (via MUC) and also MAN-MUC. It doesn't start until 28th March by the way.


Israeli security.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does this entail?


Ben Gurion airport security (http://securitysolutions.com/news/security_exposing_hostile_intent/)

There has never been a security problem on a flight from the main international airport and the last attack from any Israeli airport was in 1969...

[lplsprog]

But the police are involved in the security, mainly in the background behind one way glass or via surveillance cameras. Sometimes they put in an appearance to check passports etc at the back of the search comb.

[Betablockeruk]

Oh no!! This snow shower wasn't forecast and there's at least 1mm on the ground. Expect MAN to issue a SNOCLO any minute. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif

Public criticism needs public apology! :oh: I've now seen the pictures from Sunday and that was 1 heavy localised snow shower!! Etihad on stand and titles obscured by snow covering, etc.

Better get ready for Weds afternoon "Heavy Snow".

[ManofMan]

Better get ready for Weds afternoon "Heavy Snow".

What heavy snow ???

***Just seen the amended forecast, cant see it though...just a case of backside covering***

[A330ETOPS]

The thing is, if a terrorist wanted to get something on a plane, then they could. No matter how much security etc we go through there's always a way to get anything on board. I fly regularly out of liverpool (General Aviation). No security there whatsoever for me. When i need fuel, i have to taxi to the main apron. Yesterday i was parked next to a ryr 737. Call the fueller, he comes out i give him whatever i want to. His next job is the ryr 737. He goes onto the flightdeck with the fuel chit & bingo

[nav3]

"He goes onto the flightdeck with the fuel chit & bingo" ?

Has Michael O Leary come up with another way of making money now then ? 'BINGO'...I ask you !!:ok:

[Businesstraveller]

'You can't put a price on life' - according to most industries you can. Complex formulaes are utilised to determine the point at which it is commonly regarded as uneconomic to further safeguard against loss of life. Seperately, many people would cogently postulate that a similar balance should be struck between the saving of a life and the safeguarding of civil liberties. This latter point generally doesn't relate specifically to airport security, rather to intrusion of the State into whatever it's agents feel like concerning themselves with.

The general point is a reasonable philosophy though.

[Ringwayman]

it's now showing as 40% probability for snow from 1pm to 5 pm going off the 6.30pm TAF. Mixed rain and snow preceeding it though. Dont' envisage it causing too many alarms at the moment.

and relating positive route news, Etihad's now showing 777 operations from June 7th.

[Seljuk22]

LH: STR-MAN 6 weekly (except Saturday) CRJ 700 from 12th April

[ManofMan]

Airport just gone Snoclo @ 1554, update at 1700

[Betablockeruk]

MAN SNOCLO 1552 (for an hour'ish)

[ManofMan]

To quote a phrase...its snowing like billyo, no way it will re-open at 1700 if this carries on...no way.

[Betablockeruk]

I refer the honourable gentleman to reply #2776. :p

[ManofMan]

I refer the honourable gentleman to reply #2776.

Yeah...case of foot mouth etc etc...didnt see this coming !!!

[Brian Fantana]

Now snowclo until 1800!!
Another fine example of MAN operations, the world class international airport.
This snow has been forecast for a while!!

[Mouser]

Can anyone tell me were Ezy9896 has diverted too
thanks

[Dazbo5]

Another fine example of MAN operations
This snow has been forecast for a while!!
You probably can't see how heavy the snow is falling from San Diego! It's falling pretty heavy here at the moment so it's no surprise the airport is closed. Give them a break. You can't clear a runway while the snow is falling as heavy as it is at the moment with aircraft landing on top of you!

Darren

[Betablockeruk]

EZY9896, BD598 and BA1396 to LPL
PIA709 to LHR
AF2568 to LBA

[MARK9263]

How many excuses do you want to keep making ?
Fact, this was forecast yesterday by the METOFFICE of heavy snow.
Whether snow is forecast or not, the airport is continually caught with its pants down.
The last bad winters I remember 1981/82 & 1978/9 and the airport wasnt in such a state then as it continually seems to be...

[Brian Fantana]

Dazbo5 - It may be heavy snow, but the snow had been forecast! they should have been ready for it. prior planning prevents pi$$ poor performance.

“You can't clear a runway while the snow is falling as heavy as it is at the moment with aircraft landing on top of you!”

It would seem nothing is capable of landing at MAN whenever snowflakes appear.
Pi$$ poor performance is standard at MAN in the snow.
Maybe airlines which have incurred additional costs with diverts should be claiming the money back from the airport authority, that way the airport might get its act together!!

[opnot]

mark9263
why are people still complaing about snow clearance at Manch.Like you said heavy snow was forecast and it fell. Whilst it is snowing you cannot clear a runway, by the time you get to the end, where you started is covered again, therefore you have to wait until the snow has ceased or moderated in its fall otherwise you are wasting your time and money

[MARK9263]

There is no excuses for not being prepared. I make my point again, getting more snow than was forecast is one thing, being told by the METOFFICE that there was a forecast for heavy snow 36 hours earlier and still not being able to be prepared is in-excusable, sorry....

[Betablockeruk]

Closed now until 2000 and the "heavy snow" doesn't arrive until 1800 :uhoh:

[MARK9263]

I would like to pose another serious question..What has happened to the airport in twelve months ?
I refer to the last bad spell of snow in February 2009. Monday 2nd there was snow on and off all day at MAN, and to my knowledge it never closed at all and handled 36 diversions.....!!!!

Any ideas ? Coz im sure as hell struggling to know how things have deteriorated so badly

[ManofMan]

Some people talking throught their ar$e here...the snow in the last 2 hours has been amongst the heaviet i have ever seen....do you know how heavy the snow has to be for a met viz of 800 meters with no wind to stir the snow...bloody heavy...

No airport could have stayed open in that...we had over 1 inch fall in just 45 minutes, so come on....out of those armchairs and explain what you would have done to keep things open ???

[MARK9263]

Another apologist....!!

I live virtually live on top of the airport mate, no preparation... simple...!

[MAN777]

You CAN keep an airport open by alternating brushing of BOTH runways, which is what seems to happen at other airports including LHR.

Even after the recent cockups nobody seems to be learning, instead MAN switches to single runway ops and then calls a closure.

If I was an airline CEO I would be wanting heads to roll.

MAN pull your finger out of your a*se and get this continuing fiasco sorted.

I and the world no longer want to listen to excuses.

You have had 36 hours notice of this snow, every bit of equipment should have began rolling as soon as it started.

[MARK9263]

MAN777 well said..!

Somebody talking sense, the excuses have worn thin now and are extremely tiresome..

[ManofMan]

Do you live in a vast expanse that needs clearing before the airport can operate...stands...taxiways...runways, how can they clear the snow when its falling so heavy??

Preperation my Ar$e...its simply fell too heavy too quickly, look at the Metars !!!!

EGCC 031650Z 12006KT 2000 -SN BKN008 00/00 Q1005 SNOCLO
EGCC 031620Z 13005KT 0800 R23R/1500 SN BKN004 00/00 Q1005 NOSIG
EGCC 031550Z 13003KT 1100 R23R/P1500 SN FEW002 SCT004 BKN008 00/M00 Q1006 BECMG BKN004
EGCC 031520Z 16005KT 1000 R23R/1300 SN FEW003 SCT008 BKN011 01/00 Q1006 BECMG BKN008
EGCC 031450Z 17005KT 2100 -SN SCT008 SCT012 01/00 Q1006 BECMG 1400 SN BKN008
EGCC 031420Z 17009KT 6000 -SHSN FEW014 SCT025 BKN032 02/00 Q1006 BECMG 3000 SHSN BKN010


What cant speak cant lie...bring a million staff in and you couldnt keep the place open, in order to clear the runway you need to get on it, not easily done with landing traffic...hence...SNOCLO

[MARK9263]

Tut,tut,tut...! and still the excuses flow.
I went outside when it stopped and it was about 1 INCH of snow..

[ManofMan]

I went outside when it stopped and it was about 1 INCH of snow

Thats O.K. then...cant imagine a 777 would skid very far in 1 inch of wet snow...maybee you are right, they should have stayed open...Emirates could have launched a new service from Dubai to Heald Green....cos thats where it would have come to a halt when it had finsished skidding.

Dont get me wrong...i was on here banging the drum on how poor MAN was when they used cheap de-icer before Christmas...that simply froze....but today...not the airports fault i am afraid.

[Mouser]

Has it stopped or as forecast has it turned to rain.

[MAN777]

Thats my point, MAN has TWO runways keep one swept all the time and alternate.

What is required is a fully staffed snow fleet

Last week there was just two brushes on the runway no wonder they cannot keep up.

[MUFC_fan]

Surely if snow is falling an inch in 45 minutes, then by the time one end of a runway is clear then the end that you started at would be covered again - I ain't no expert but that seems the logic to me!

I think the reason is that it has come down too fast.

You can have as many runways Dallas Fort Worth and nothing could get in!:ugh:

[purplehelmet]

dubai to heald green. nice one lmao:):ok:

[opnot]

mark9623
one inch of snow, braking action poor /poor/poor no landers QED

man777 how long do you pay for a fully equip snow fleet in this country. I remembered it snowed in June a afew years ago

[Mouser]

Airport flight arrivals shows EK109 landed at 19.03

[TURIN]

While the two runways are being alternately cleared, who, and with what is clearing the taxiways and stands?

Ever tried shifting a heavy jet in thick snow? You think a diversion is expensive? Try having a couple of tugs jack-knife into the fuselage taking the headset men with them! Now that is expensive.

How do you expect the bags/cargo to be offloaded when the stands are thick with snow? Highloaders are not off road vehicles. While were at it, how does an electric buggy pull a set of steps through thick snow?

True, if there was a multitude with shovels and grit you may have a chance but currently forget it.

We do not generally in this country experience the weather we have at the moment. It is not economical to man up and maintain a fleet of equipment that will be used once every other blue moon.

Accept it. It's a bit inconvenient but it's better than injuries to personnel and damaged aircraft.
Don't get me started on de-icing the aircraft!!!!:mad:

[MARK9263]

OH! And that was a problem 5/10/20/30/40 years ago?
This the first time we ever had snow ?

Stop the tow-the-line,PC,apologist nonsense..!

[Brian Fantana]

Manofman - Taxiways and airside roads should have been de-iced and swept that way they would have been able to get onto the runway - PRIOR PLANNING!! Or was there not enough man power on shift. The Bean counters not allowing overtime?? Yes there is landing traffic to dodge but it’s a winter afternoon in Feb during the worst recession to hit the airlines - hardly peak week in summer aircraft movements going on.
MAN777 - MAN has 2 runways, but the bean counters are not prepared to cover the cost of opening the second. Fire cover on the far side would have to open, extra controllers in the tower and airfield ops to carry out runway inspections.
I have experience of being stuck in the hold at Dayne with 23R blocked and having to divert with other carriers, we were not allowed to do a visual approach onto 23L, a CAVOK day too!!
MAN needs to pull its socks up sharpish but whilst bean counters are running it there is no chance! IMHO

[MAN777]

The stands and taxiways were not thick with snow, there was a very thin coating of rapidly melting slush, its perfectly safe to drive any form of airport vehicle in those conditions WITH CARE. The ground was not frozen as was the case a few weeks ago.

I understand that runways are a different matter, but once off the runway are you telling me that a slow moving airliner is going to be bothered by a bit of slush ?

I never suggested a snow fleet available all year, what i did imply was that maybe with 36 hours notice, some sort of effective team could be put together. I have worked on and off at MAN for 30 years and I dont ever recall such long closures for such small amounts of snow, also the snow clearing fleet MAN had years ago was half the size it is now and the place was kept open, what is so different ??

Hopefully this will be the last snow of the winter and MAG management can get back to running the shops !! Oh by the way dont you need flights actually on the ground at Manchester to supply the shop punters !!!:rolleyes:

[Ringwayman]

Can anyone suggest how "an effective team" can be assembled in 36 hours? As I understand it, all would-be operatives on the apron needed to go through the appropriate channels for them to go through security processes before they gain airside passes....something that can take months. So for today's events, it means that they would have had to start that process perhaps back in November. Then MAN put them on a retainer "just in case" and in the meantime these people would have to be trusted to keep their diairies free for 3 to 6 months so that nothing could potentially clash with what may be needed once in 10 to 20 years. In the meantime we could be talking 50 people on reasonable money (let's pitch in at £5.80/hr for a 37 hour week for 20 weeks which equates to well over £4000 perperson or £200,000 in total without any overtime) for no net effect except to necessitate a rise in airport charges to reflect these extra costs which is something that most, if not all, airlines are clamouring against.

As for the shops needing flights on the ground, are you suggesting that there are no passengers already at the airport ready for the outbound sectors?

[busz]

Flew into SZG as the FO on a flight recently. It snowed while we were there, and the snow clearing team, about 8 vehicles were on and off the runway in between the departures and arrivals. You CAN keep the show on the road, but it requires investment. MAN is too busy giving dividends to the councils to invest in infrastructure at the moment however.

I used to be proud of my airport. Not anymore

[MAN777]

I didnt mean bring in outsiders, give me some credit.

Snow clearing staff come from other sections within MAG, anybody who can drive and who are suitably trained can be diverted into the role. Thats how its always been done.

I think MAN has adopted a "too hard to do" policy and basically decided not to make the effort until the last flake falls, then take your time to catch up, however long that is. Meanwhile dozens of MAN movements are scattered all over the UK, causing further knock on delays and cancellations.

Re shoppers in Terminals, Basic Retail common sense says that you get as many people as possible through the doors to spend their money. So if the airport is being run by bean counters, they are shooting themselves in the foot by being so ready to shut the runway. A few hundred delayed passengers only have a finite amount of money to spend.

[greatoaks]

Emirates could have launched a new service from Dubai to Heald Green....cos thats where it would have come to a halt when it had finished skidding.



Pi$$ Funny ... well done

Here's an idea for the accountants

Whilst the airport is closed run some free buses from the Trafford Centre and pack em through the new blue retail experience......£££££££'s

[TURIN]

Stop the tow-the-line,PC,apologist nonsense..!

Eh?:confused:


You CAN keep the show on the road, but it requires investment.

Now your getting it. :ok:

I understand that runways are a different matter, but once off the runway are you telling me that a slow moving airliner is going to be bothered by a bit of slush ?

No, but a static one full of fuel and load will be a bugger to shift off the gate.

[Mr A Tis]

Let us not forget either that the airlines want to pay minimum fees ( or in Ryanair's case-no fees at all) to use the airport facilities.
Its not just the airport beencounters, but the airlines are as much to blame, under the "ryanairisation" of the industry.

[Betablockeruk]

Let us not forget either that the airlines want to pay minimum fees ( or in Ryanair's case-no fees at all) to use the airport facilities.

and yet PIK (Ryanir base) is currently taking most of GLA diverted traffic.

Looks like if you got hit by this band of snow then snoclo was inevitable.

[MUFC_fan]

Flybe in talks with Aberdeen Airport : Aberdeen Airport News Stories (http://uk-airport-news.info/aberdeen-airport-news-030210.html)

Surely...

[MANTFS]

Why during yesterdays snow did the airport issue that it was closed until 2000 when in fact it re-opened at 1830?. This false information being given out by the ATC units caused several aircraft to divert unnecessarily causing cost to airlines and disruption to passengers.

[ManofMan]

Why during yesterdays snow did the airport issue that it was closed until 2000 when in fact it re-opened at 1830

Err...maybee that the 2000hrs opening time was an estimate, the snow stopped at 1800 hrs and they were able to get the place open again, any aircraft on route would have been kept updated so nothing would have diverted unnecessarily, you only have to look at the arrivals to see that stuff was getting in, if what your saying is correct then none of this would have got in ....

18:37 SAS541 OY-KBL Airbus A321-23218:40 SAS2549 OY-KHM McDonnell-Douglas MD8219:01 TCX76LN G-FCLF Boeing 757-28A19:03 UAE19 A6-EBH Boeing 777-31HER19:07 FIN3689 OH-LKL Embraer EMB190-100LR19:17 BMA376Q G-EMBI Embraer EMB145EU19:24 AFR116E F-GKXN Airbus A320-21419:28 SHT2G G-BUSK Airbus A320-21119:32 BEE207 G-JECH De Havilland DHC8-40219:35 EIN20D EI-EDS Airbus A320-21419:41 KLM1093 PH-BDP Boeing 737-30619:43 MON859P G-MONK Boeing 757-2T719:46 CAL6639 B-18709 Boeing 747-409F (SCD)19:50 BEE375 G-ECOK De Havilland DHC8-40219:53 SHT2910 G-DOCS Boeing 737-436

Nothing diverted anywhere as a result of Manchester estimating 2000 Hrs.

Does that answer your question ??

[MANTFS]

"Nothing diverted elsewhere due to Manchester estimating opening at 2000"

Not true - At least 2 ZB's diverted to BHX/EMA with over 90 mins holding fuel having been told MAN will not open until 2000 at the earliest.

[allosaurus]

Not frozen!At 0700 WED stands 2 to 8 were like ice rinks! once again personel and aircraft at risk from non de-iced stands and road ways:eek:

[ManofMan]

"Nothing diverted unnecessarily"

Not true - At least 2 ZB's diverted to BHX/EMA with over 90 mins holding fuel having been told MAN will open until 2000 at the earliest.

At what time did this happen ???

[MARK9263]

Give it up defending the indefencable..! Just accept that it was another foul-up courtesy of our local aerodrome!

[Ian Brooks]

Mark9263
Leeds closed this morning due fog/low cloud, was this due to airport authority unable to blow it away quick enough?

Ian B

[MARK9263]

And your spurious point is ?

[ManofMan]

Give it up defending the indefencable..! Just accept that it was another foul-up courtesy of our local aerodrome!

Nah...why would i do that ??? the people who are bashing the airport do so from the comfort of their arm-chair, no idea whatsover.

Think you will find that the ZB that went to BHX did so at about 16.30 ish, even if he would have held until the earliest opening time he would have needed 2 + hours of holding fuel, so my point is he would have had to divert even if the airport would have said it would be re-opening at 1800 hrs !!!!

The previous poster said that the diversion was un-nessesary.

[MANTFS]

MANOFMAN

ZB I/B from ACE arrived in BHX around 1800
ZB I/B from TFS arrived EMA 1820

[Manchester Kurt]

Mark, you seem more concerned with critising people for the closure than understanding why it happened and why it will probably happen again.

Not exactly very constructive.

[MARK9263]

Another apologist..welcome my friend

[Ian Brooks]

Give a break!

Ian B

[al446]

Why during yesterdays snow did the airport issue that it was closed until 2000 when in fact it re-opened at 1830

Followed by

ZB I/B from ACE arrived in BHX around 1800
ZB I/B from TFS arrived EMA 1820

Point is?

[hammerb32]

Another apologist..welcome my friend

Mark,

As you're such an expert on this at least share with us how you'd keep a runway, taxiways and stands clear of heavy snow and the airport open, maybe send it in. I mean it's happened at pretty much every UK airport at some point this winter, you know something the UK aviation industry doesn't, you need to share your expertise. Or maybe, as you're coming across, you're just a professional complainer/whinger who doesn't really understand a thing you talk about?

[MARK9263]

Someone famous once said 'When you have a to resort to personal insults to win an argument then the argument itself is lost'
Thats not up to me mate what I would do,thats why the airport pays good money for people to provide the brains and the manpower to do that, but it doesnt mean to say people can't have an opinion that opposes yours...!

[hammerb32]

A personal insult, or perception being a reality, thanks for confirming what i thought though....

[BHX5DME]

January 2010 pax - 1,034,459 down 14.06%
January 2010 movements - 10,617 down 18.59%

Pax 12 months to 31.01.10 - 18,669,520 down 15.20%
Movements 12 months to 31.01.10 - 170,060 down 15.89%

[Ian Brooks]

A few serious questions
1)How much does one of these big snowplows cost that is operated by the Likes of Oslo or Helsinki?
2) How many would MAN need to clear both runways and all taxyways and aprons in
about an hour or two
3) How many staff would that need to man vehicles and maintain at a few minutes notice should it start to snow or what would these guys/gals do when it is not snowing
( most years probably 360+ ).
4) Presuming you cannot have big snow banks at sides of taxyway/runway how many lorry loads of snow would need to be moved and where is it put.
5) how many deicing vehicles would be needed

This is not a sarcastic request I am very interested to learn about what it takes as
i have little knowlege ( like many others ) on this

Ian B

[MAN777]

I have been very vocal over the snow clearance issues of late, I am not an armchair critic, I work airside operationally and as a user, I have seen 1st hand what has been going on, I have seen my area of operation massively affected in part by the weather yes, but mainly by the painfully slow response to the conditions and on some days no response.

As I have said in previous posts I am no stranger to MAN I have watched it grow for 40 years and worked there for 30 years, so I am perfectly entitled to knock the airport when I see things going wrong on such a regular basis.

This forum is full of people who are making excuses for the airport, it is fact that these snow events are not being dealt with as they should.

The latest downturn figures are a result of the recession, but they wont be helped by a management that doesnt seem to understand the simple equation no aircraft=no airport !!!

[Ian Brooks]

It will until we have worked the Ryanair pullout through so October should start to
look a lot better

Ian B

[ManofMan]

Man777, I hear you..the fiasco prior/over xmas when the airport used cheap/watered down de-icing fluid was a disgrace...a simple case of penny pinching caused untold damage...I came on and voiced my dissapointment at the airport. But when it comes to the snowfall we have had (yesterday included) the airport gets a raw deal...I have been on here countless times and heard people say that Salzburg/Zurch etc etc copes.....why cant MAN cope....its because those airports have the infrastucture, Manchester does not.

Regardless of if we get 10 minutes or 10 days notice we simply cant cope, and why should we...this severity of weather was last seen in 1981.

We dont and wont have the equipment/resources until this thing becomes the norm.

People should accept this for what it is...Extreme weather.

[Ian Brooks]

Thinking about the pax drop if you look at the lost Ryanair it was worth probably
60,000 pax a month and BMI trans atlantic another 24,000 so that accounts for over
half the lost pax in fell one fell swoop add to that losing Delta JFK and reduced shedules with American/SIA that adds quite a large chunk and the reduction in fleet size by Thomson and Thomas Cook that probably accounts for most of it

Based on that with Easyjet adding extra services and aircraft from this month
and a few new and reinstatement of services over next 3/4 months it will start to look better

Ian B

[MAN777]

MAN does have the infrastructure and equipment, a new fleet of expensive blower / brushes and deicing rigs along with a multitude of smaller ploughs and brushes.

The old snow fleet was bought from Saudi Arabia (actually used for sand clearance) and that managed the job, so why cant a purpose built fleet that is twice the size of old cope ?

Unlike most airports it has the benefit of a second runway, during the case for its creation great play was made of the fact that a 2nd runway can help prevent closures in emergencies and bad weather (snow)

Yesterdays weather WAS NOT extreme, abnormal for NW England perhaps but definately not severe. There was less than 2 inches of wet snow which started to thaw. Runway 2 could have been swept and treated and alternated with Runway 1. A statement I have made several times, and on numerous occasions others have replied "we cant afford to keep R2 open".

It may cost a bit more but the solution to yesterdays closure was there, a very expensive strip of concrete which is not getting used. MAN has the tools to do the jobs but unfortunately not the will, or so it seems !!!

MAN likes to be seen up with the big boys of the airport world, but after this winters performance I fear that the world is laughing at us.

[Ian Brooks]

I always thought wet snow was the worst to clear and certainly seems to cause more
problems

Ian B

[ManofMan]

There was less than 2 inches of wet snow which started to thaw. Runway 2 could have been swept and treated and alternated with Runway 1. A statement I have made several times, and on numerous occasions others have replied "we cant afford to keep R2 open"

Manchesters arrivals departures are spaced enough to allow snow to form on the active, you say brush on and keep one open...well if they are using 05R then they would have to cross 05L in order to get to the stands, so that means having both brushed. If they are landing on 05L then they sweep 05R, but what about the intersections etc etc.

The problem with Manchester is that it isnt the busiest, so the snow forms between landings which can be 15-20 minutes apart, and before you say it, its impossible to get on in-between landings, they could sweep say the first 3rd leaving the braking action Good/****/Ice Rink/Herds.

[ManofMan]

MAN likes to be seen up with the big boys of the airport world, but after this winters performance I fear that the world is laughing at us

Yeah, because Luton, Gatwick and Birmingham havent been affected have they ???

[MAN777]

Yes keeping a two runway sweeping operation going would take a good deal of coordination and may create some holding on switchover, but it would prevent total closure.

It seems that the short phrase "can do" is no longer part of MANs mind set.

My Grandad used to say "You have made your bed now sleep in it" if ever there was a phrase more appropriate for the future of MAN !!

I am very tired of this subject now as I feel I can say no more. I give up !!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[MUFC_fan]

Any chance of QR increasing capacity any time soon? They seem to have moved to a semi-permanent A333 which is obviously larger than EY's smaller edition but with the latter replacing their service with the beast that is the 77W - will QR look to match it and see FOUR daily 77Ws to the M.E.?!:}

I cannot see them looking at double daily as their current timetable seems to suggest that they don't have enough A330s to meet the requirements.

[MAN777]

Man of Man

OK just one more reply

Gatwick, Luton and Birmingham all have one worthwhile runway, they have an excuse, MAN does not !!

Over and Out

[Suzeman]

Amid all the doom and gloom, the January flown cargo figures reveal a 14% rise in throughput. This is the second month on the trot that there has been growth in flown cargo (+3% in December).:ok:

Air cargo figures have previously been a good indication of a coming change in the country's economic state, so the "green shoots" may be showing at last.

Unfortunately this part of the business never gets the coverage it deserves, but then loads of boxes are not very sexy and they can't spend money in the shops. :} Anyway, I hope it means better times for the cargo community at the airport at least.

As has been mentioned earlier, it will take some months yet for the Ryanair effect to work its way out of the passenger and movement figures, so I reckon they have still got some way to fall unless lots of new business materialises soon.

Suzeman

[Curious Pax]

Sorry to inject a note of realism into the snow debate, but a couple of facts about yesterday that may be pertinent:

The snow started on cue at 1400. The airport remained open until 1550, by which time it was coming down very heavily, and had been for a while.

The snow stopped not long before 1800. By 1830 MAN had reopened - pretty impressive I would say.

ManofMan makes an important point about the frequency of use of the runway - if it was being used every 60 seconds like those at Heathrow then a single clearance, then constant use would deal with most of the snow. However a clearance and then 20 minutes without a couple of jets to blow away the stuff that had gathered in the meantime would mean another sweep would be required. Think about the difference in how slowly snow gathers on a motorway compared to a side street.

[Bagso]

Manchesters Passenger Decline Continues into 2010
January 2010 pax - 1,034,459 down 14.06%
January 2010 movements - 10,617 down 18.59%

Pax 12 months to 31.01.10 - 18,669,520 down 15.20%
Movements 12 months to 31.01.10 - 170,060 down 15.89%

...well some nice cheery news from our BHX correspondent !:)

Many thanks for that !

Anybody like to move the debate away from snow ( until the next precipitation at least) and hazard a guess on what figure we will top out at in terms of pax for 2010 ?

[MUFC_fan]

I would say and annual of ~19m?

Should pick up in the summer compared to last - more flights from most operators.

[Ian Brooks]

Cheers Suzeman
Just got back from seeing the real Tornado! and luvely it is, lot less noisy than
one of those with a pointy nose
Glad to see cargo on the rise again
See you for a beer in Stockport tonight?

Ian B

[TSR2]

hazard a guess on what figure we will top out at in terms of pax for 2010 ?

17,089,647 is my guess.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Whilst the January stats make appalling reading by any measure, the extent of the drop is not solely explained by services withdrawn since last Winter. The prolonged period of Arctic weather caused not only diversions away but mass cancellations amongst the regular flying programme for days on end as well. And when flights did operate, not all intended passengers were able to make it to the airport anyway.

I am in no way claiming that the stats for January would ever have been rosy, but given 'average' weather they would have been considerably less grim than this.

SHED.

[A330ETOPS]

Haha well it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest!

[Ian Brooks]

Shed
Yes are probably quite right on that as there vast numbers of canx flights on several days

Ian B

[Bagso]

17,089,647 is my guess.


blimey that would be grim .....that would be back to 1998 levels !

[MUFC_fan]

I've just booked an F class ticket to SIN in September with EK...from LGW.

It is almost half the price flying from LGW in FIRST than it is to fly BUSINESS from MAN with the same airline...

They do make it hard to choose MAN don't they...

*Dear Mods - this is not an advertisement, it is clear proof and reason why 50% of MAN based EK passengers travel south to head to DXB and beyond...:uhoh:

[airnoc]

man to noc cancel twice this week why?

[MAN777]

Re EK from LGW Vs MAN fares, probably supply and demand.

QR have also offered some amazing fares ex LGW last year.

Must be struggling to fill them.

Dont know traffic figures but every time I use EK ex MAN its packed, some of my colleagues have had to travel to BHX to get a seat on some days.

[MUFC_fan]

Not so. The current prices booked direct with EK for travel 6th Sept. returning 20th Sept. are:

MAN - SIN F Class £3535.69
MAN - SIN C Class £2195.69
LGW - SIN F Class £3733.60

You must have booked a special deal.


I would advise you remove that post - the Mods will be after you.

I haven't booked with the company direct, but with a company who use clouds on their adverts...;) I'll send you a PM...:ok:

[STATSMAN]

MAN to NOC
Flight was cancelled on first day as only 20 passengers on outward leg, on thursday passengers came airside then had to be decontrolled.They were holding a letter from Baby giving reason as bad weather in Knock.

[Bab_zz]

PIA have added an addtional MAN-JFK flight starting on the 4th of April

[lexxity]

Statsman it was cancelled due WX on both days.

[airnoc]

i think bmibaby should pull there socks as aer arran from galway is more reliable

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

There are suggestions on the Monarch thread that their CEO (Tim Jeans) is leaving. I don't know if there is any truth in this, but he would make an outstanding choice for the forthcoming vacancy at MAG. His tenure in the marketing department at MAN was a high point for the airport, and he went on to play a high profile role in the expansion of Ryanair before leaving them to head Monarch Airlines. If his time at Monarch is coming to an end, MAG should give him a call PDQ ...

I wonder if TJ is still on MOL's Christmas card list? If anyone could foster good relations with RYR maybe it is him! Didn't they once 'headhunt' him, after all?

SHED.

[TSR2]

Just a minor point, TJ joined Monarch from Airtours. He left Ryanair to head-up Airtours Lite.

According to Business Week, the CEO of the Monarch Travel Group is not TJ.

[Fuel Crossfeed]

Shed on a pole - Just another minor point Peter Brown is the CEO of the Monarch travel group.
Tim Jeans is the Managing director of Monarch Airlines.
It is PB who is leaving. See the Monarch thread.

[Bagso]

Shed on a pole - Just another minor point Peter Brown is the CEO of the Monarch travel group.
Tim Jeans is the Managing director of Monarch Airlines.
It is PB who is leaving. See the Monarch thread.

re PB ..Well no probs , we'll have him then...please God anybody but the present shower !

[Momentary Lapse]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/350163-manchester-7-a-post5481097.html#post5481097

What did I say here ref TJ? I'm good, me.

[TartinTon]

Err...Lapse...perhaps you want to read the thread more closely?

TJ isn't the one leaving Monarch, Peter Brown is.

[al446]

I'm good, me.

Erm...... No you're not, you're myopic. Or inattentive. Or conceited. Or all three.

However thanks for reminding of that post, you never did answer my point of how you would make an unwilling vendor sell their shareholding.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Ah well. 2 + 2 = 5 then.

It would have been nice! Sorry for misleading you folks!

SHED.

[Tight Seat]

TJ has a best mate, his mate may be his old boss. As for Peter Brown for Man, remember he is an accountant, a firm grasp of the sh:mad:it.

[Momentary Lapse]

Shame it's not TJ though. Yes I did read it properly. Not inattentive: just fond of creative licence. Not myopic: actually long-sighted. And yes, almost certainly conceited, but I'm in good company on Pprune with that characteristic!

I don't know how to force the shareholders to sell up, but as GCX I'd make it my priority to hire someone who did know.

[MAN OPS]

Royal Air Moroc have a series of charter flights coming up this spring/summer

also

South African are rumored to be looking at charter flights to MAN during the football over there in June.

[al446]

So what you are saying is that by your 'creative licence' you can ignore the reality of the world around you and postulate what you wish, a form of blindness (what is myopia?) otherwise known as Walter Mitty Syndrome. Then you dream up some mythical person who can come along and force an unwilling shareholder to sell out their holding in a profitable airport group. That would be the Mafia would it?

Dream on or get real. Or are you a troll?

[simufly]

Any legs to this rumour, heard about it in class this morning.

[Wizofoz]

A quick look at loads in the next couple of weeks shows flights oversold in both directions on both daily flights,and we are still taking delivery of new aircraft, so it doesn't seem likely.

We might put on a third service or an A380 though....

[Vagrant]

That's an odd one! As staff, it is an awful option to get to the UK as it is always chockers on that route. Maybe there is some posturing going on???

V

[PA38]

Can Manchester handle an A380?????

[ManofMan]

Would explain why they opened the business lounge, cant think of one singular reason why they would pull a service that is chocka day in day out ???

[Random Flyer]

I'll bet every bit of money I have this is 110% bull! :ok:

[asianflyer2]

I hope they are not pulling out and would be very surprised if it happens. Their business lounge is one of the best I have been in and if you turn up early for the evening flight you get an excellent dinner even before boarding. The whole pace is run very professionally.

[Leonard320]

I can't see this when people are talking about a 3rd daily service.

The only thing that may be done is either reducing to a Daily 380 or going double daily with a 380 and 332 maybe.

I am not a MAN Spotter and only get to go up once or twice a year but from other sites and word of mouth I cant see this happening one bit. A 3rd daily possible sticking to Double daily with an 380 replacing one of the 77W's also very possible

Thanks
Ben Leonard

[Boeing 77W]

Can Manchester handle an A380?????
Yeah they can.

Last I heard was Airport Operations only accepted one on the ground at any one time. That still the case?

[purplehelmet]

man is caa approved to accept the a380 on a diversion, but it would have to be parked on a remote stand, stand 12 will be the only one able to accomadate the a380 when its finished, hopefully by sept 2010.:ok:

[OltonPete]

livemint article

Air India to consider Dublin for European hub this fortnight - Corporate News - livemint.com (http://tinyurl.com/yzmljau)

Have to agree with the latter part of the article re MAN & BHX.

BHX would certainly have plenty of VFR traffic east and west
just shame about the runway. I assume LAX, SFO & YVR would
be on the cards with the reasonably large Indian expat profile.

I assume Manchester will be more than watching in this instance.

Pete

[MUFC_fan]

But Dublin offers an advantage as the only European airport where passengers can clear immigration for the US


Wrong.


A London-based aviation analyst said the facility of US immigration clearance was drawing even European airlines to Dublin.

“British Airways(BA) recently started an all-business A318 service from London City Airport to New York JFK with a fuel stop in Dublin on the outbound only,” he said.


Wrong again.


He too didn’t want to be named.


That is because he doesn't exist. What analyst would give his blab and then not say who he is or which company he works for?

I would take this article with the Atlantic's worth of salt - I highly doubt an airline executive would make such claims to the public when he hasn't even been in long term discussions with any airport...

[cyclops16]

Could it be feasible to have US pre-clearance at Manchester? The new body scanners,etc are already in use and until recently PIA used to have to land here before going stateside for security reasons and we already have 3 or 4 US airlines operating from MAN plus Virgin. I am not an expert in any way on these sort of things,it is more curiosity than anything else.Could it be beneficial to us by way of other airlines currently not using us as a pre-clearance facility whether it be just to gain clearance for passengers or/and including a splash and dash refuelling to go to the West coast of the states. We have 2 runways that are at the minute under used. But do we have the infrastructure to make it happen and if not what would be needed to make it happen.It is not as if we were out of the way as most traffic going stateside tends to come over us (within 25-30miles) as it routes for Pole Hill or Wallasey going West.If looking at it geographically we are just about in the right place.
What do you guys in the know think?


Mark

[42psi]

My understanding is that when introduced originally the pre-clearence facility could have (still could?) be introduced by the UK if wanted.

I was told that the UK was not prepared to allow US govt. agents to operate as it would infringe UK sovereignty.

As I recall it's to do with the powers that have to be ceded to the US immigration officers operating the facility.

[Curious Pax]

Presumably that argument was made a long while ago, and it no longer applies, as foreign agencies do now operate on UK soil - you clear French immigration/customs in the UK before boarding the train through the Channel Tunnel.

[GavinC]

Surely this Air India opportunity is one that MAN should pursue. With regards to security clearance, could this be done by extending T2 to the north and putting the US security clearance across the terminal building at the point of the extension so that it would create a segregated facility of a couple of stands to the north of where the terminal currently finishes?

Just a thought. And would need the UK Gov. to agree! But then again, if the UK Gov. did agree to the US agents working in MAN, would it ust be easier to do the checks at the security area anyway??

[cyclops16]

Curious Pax,
That was my thoughts as I read a while back there were French officers at the Eurostar terminal within a specific zone.I know that after watching a documentary about these officers 1 was sent home in disgrace for carrying a sidearm on the concourse of Waterloo station after forgetting to secure it in the French zone and going shopping so illegally brought a weapon into the UK,eventhough she had only walked from one side of the concourse to the other,but she was out of the French control zone with a firearm and also UK officers operating at the European channel ports in a UK control zone after I had watched UK Border force.So the argument as regards sovereignty is not as closed a book as it once was.

[rutankrd]

Whilst not a signatory to the Schengan the UK and France are working at frontiers WITHIN the EU within the Schengan framework.

Also The Eurostar operates under very special acts of Parliament !

Remember please that FREE an un-restricted travel within the EU is enshrined in the various treaties and actually the UK is acting largely alone by wanting to count people OUT of the country !

France does not need to run any formal frontier checks on ANY EU citizen be they Schengan or not - You just need to be carrying a EU approved ID card
(No need for a full passport and you know the UK had a very nice and easy travel document that could have met with this requirement - The old annual UK visitor visa- Cancelled without a suitable replacement because the gov want more revenue till such time we have that national ID card !)

The US pre-clearance issue whilst visually similar would be a whole differing ball game for the UK !

[Ian Brooks]

New Route annouced by Flybe MAN to BOH starting 27th May 6 days a week


Ian

[MUFC_fan]

Any legs to this rumour, heard about it in class this morning.


There is more chance of the Lib Dems winning the general election than there is of EK pulling out of MAN.

I have been looking at the prices for holidays to the far east and companies are charging up to £200 extra to fly from MAN opposed to other EK airports in the UK - and that includes LHR.

Just do a quick search between DXB and the UK destinations and then put in MAN - I guarantee it is higher.

The A380 is badly needed - and that includes first class! EK cannot afford SQ to take the traffic.

Cathay Pacific plans to fly to Moscow (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_HK/aboutus/pressroomdetails?refID=18e7e9a29a6b6210VgnVCM62000007d21c39_ ___)

They are over half way here - why not make the extra stop?!:ok:

[Betablockeruk]

From the 2005 archive:

Cathay would have returned had they not had problems with Manchester/Moscow sector which BMI objected to

Even had a schedule!

Full schedule
Flight number Days of operations
CX237 Hong Kong Moscow 00:15 / 06:25 Mon, Thu, Sat
CX237 Moscow Manchester 07:50 / 08:55 Mon, Thu, Sat
CX236 Manchester Moscow 10:00 / 16:55 Mon, Thu, Sat
CX236 Moscow Hong Kong 18:40 / 08:10 +1 Mon, Thu, Sat

[spannersatcx]

We'll be back, but not via SVO!:ok:

[crewmeal]

I have been looking at the prices for holidays to the far east and companies are charging up to £200 extra to fly from MAN opposed to other EK airports in the UK - and that includes LHR.

Just do a quick search between DXB and the UK destinations and then put in MAN - I guarantee it is higher.

Then why not go and ask EK staff why this is!!! Surely they would be able to give a straight forward answer, after all it's in their interest to fill the 380 plus other services. If NCL and BHX are showing cheaper fares then there must be a problem

[MUFC_fan]

crewmeal,

The reason is that there are not enough seats on the MAN services. I am not complaining as I am able to travel from other airports (recently booked first with EK from LGW as it was cheaper than flying J from MAN).

They need the A380 quickly.

[jubilee]

Has Palma dropped off Baby's radar this summer,or is it a fault on the booking system
Jubilee

[Vuelo]

I think quite a few destinations have fallen off WW's radar from MAN, haven't they? BCN, FAO, AGP...

I am staggered LIS survived, not because it is not profitable, I am sure it is but twice a week is useless to me as a businessman, so I have to transfer still at LHR.

[Bagso]

Re Air India

BHX would certainly have plenty of VFR traffic east and west
just shame about the runway. I assume LAX, SFO & YVR would
be on the cards with the reasonably large Indian expat profile.

I assume Manchester will be more than watching in this instance.

..."watching" being the operative term !:ugh:

Actually getting off their backsides, being intensely proactive and relentless in hunting down this business and selling MAN as an option will i'm sure be a different story......!

More recently it has always been the airlines that have recognised potential opportunities offered by Manchester and exploited them.....judging by the lack lustre PR , MAG marketing could not identify an opportunity like this if it smacked them in the face a metre away and was the size of a cows backside....... !

...a totally different story to when Sir Gil Thompson had Manchester plastered all over the press at every opportunity !

As soon as this story broke and assuming it has not been cast in stone (Re The Dublin option), someone should have been on a plane to Delhi banging on the CEOs HQ at AI.

I hope they were.......but I doubt it !

A similar situation occurred with JET Airways, 2 years back, they chose Brussels when they were looking for a European transit point, this was another missed opportunity, there is a much much larger Indian popluation within 100 miles of Manchester than Brussels but MAG were too slow off the mark, it was debateable whether they really wanted the business as slots were tight and they could afford to cherry pick at a time when rampsat was common between 0700-1000am !

Times have changed however, we are 25% down on those pax levels and MAN needs this opportunity and the business desperately !

It fills empty slots , brings in much needed runway revenue , immediatly offers 3/4 new destinations if 5th freedom rights are granted and could provide much needed but limited footfall thru the terminal especially T2 which is like a grave.

If there are no-rights, well bloody well start lobbying now and convice AI we will get them !

Its so damn quiet a negligible increase would make a massive difference....

The North of England around Preston and Blackburn has a very large Indian community, certainly massive compared to Dublin, where opportunities for additional traffic are non-existant.

In terms of access, the East Midlands and Leicester are easy to get to via the A50, certainly time and distances are marginal compared to using LHR.
(...if service can be offered)

BUT all this information and indeed the potential for profit needs selling to Air India and FAST !

[mybrico]

Manchester is a poor hub / transit airport because of the terminal layouts etc. Brussels is excellant - single modern terminal - I guess thats why JET went there. I sometimes wish a new single terminal akin to T5 would have been built rather than Runway 2. As was said at the time Gatwick controllers not new runway.

[MUFC_fan]

Could the horrendous level of tax that the government have been imposing have something to do with airlines looking at Ireland and continental Europe opposed to the likes of MAN?

I also agree that MAN is a b*stard to transfers.

[Ian Brooks]

If the plan of getting all the Sched full cost operators in T1 happens that should make it a lot easier

Ian B

[opnot]

mybrico
could you please explain, gatwick controllers not a new rwy.

[Bagso]

You have missed the point chaps ....

I was suggesting that Air India have an opportunity to pick up OR drop off a significant amount of pax that originate in the NW Or The Midlands.......

.....i.e. they will travel by car/rail to pick up flights to India OR the US from Manchester !

I may be wrong but I seriously doubt that JET pick up any "additional" traffic on their flights to/from Brussels via "connecting" flights so terminal layout is totally irrelevent !:ugh:

[BDLBOS]

I think you would be surprised. Just flew JFK-BRU on Jet, then onto BHX on SN. Quite a few people were transiting, because of the price and on board service. I would estimate 25% were going elsewhere.

[GayFriendly]

I think Jet chose BRU because they wanted an easy way to transfer pax to other major European cities from just a single European point of arrival by codeshare (which they got in the shape of Brussels Airlines and its extensive network of destinations). MAN at the time could offer neither a single terminal operation or a single airline with sufficient connections to other European cities to codeshare with.

As for AI that I think is a different story, as no one seems to know what are they really looking for? A plain and simple tech stop, an airport that can also provide local arrival/departure footfall, subject to traffic rights or a true hub style operation like Jet in BRU??

If the first then any airport surely would suffice, subject to slots and cost (hence the DUB option). If the second then I think MAN stands a very good chance indeed based on local catchment and airport infrastructure. If the third, it will be somewhere like CPH or MUC where they could interline their pax with SK or LH across Europe - of course subject to a codeshare being agreed in the first place.......

[MUFC_fan]

I think Jet chose BRU because they wanted an easy way to transfer pax to other major European cities from just a single European point of arrival by codeshare (which they got in the shape of Brussels Airlines and its extensive network of destinations). MAN at the time could offer neither a single terminal operation or a single airline with sufficient connections to other European cities to codeshare with.


Sense, spoken so beautifully.

[Random Flyer]

What are KLM upto today then? The airline and MAN airport have been tweeting for about a week about something today.

@manairport
KLM plays tricks with your eyes @ MAN Airport NOW in terminal 2
about 1 hour ago from TweetDeck

@manairport
Kick start your hols with a big surprise at MAN Airport, courtesy of KLM NOW
about 3 hours ago from TweetDeck


@manairport
KLM is set to defy gravity @ Manchester Airport today - you'll have to see it to believe it…
about 5 hours ago from TweetDeck

[Bagso]

Agreed GF

The scond part of your reponse is actually more critical

If the first then any airport surely would suffice, subject to slots and cost (hence the DUB option). If the second then I think MAN stands a very good chance indeed based on local catchment and airport infrastructure. If the third, it will be somewhere like CPH or MUC where they could interline their pax with SK or LH across Europe - of course subject to a codeshare being agreed in the first place.......

....If the Dublin rumour is true it appears that AI have infact already discounted the 3rd option !

As Dublin has neither a large local population nor indeed any better connections than MAN , surely we must be in the frame ?

Unless of course they are being sold the RYR network.... ?

[GayFriendly]

A FR-AI codeshare, now that really would be something, LOL :):):)

Something I hadn't thought about - perhaps they want to do a codeshare deal with EI? They have a significant European network from DUB, the only thing would be overflying Europe from India all the way to DUB to then backtrack over the continent to reach your final destination. IF AI are going for such traffic, I still think CPH or MUC would be a better bet. MAN sadly does not have a single based airline with enough connections to do a single codeshare arrangement with, unless EZY are in the frame ;)

[MUFC_fan]

Ryanair would never connect with any other airline, ever. It goes completely against their policy. The reason for this is to keep costs to a minimum and fares at their lowest.

EI would be the only option from DUB, but a very good option at that.

[GavinC]

The Manchester Hub rail proposals have been released by Network Rail. They call for a fourth platform and additional services to the airport.

[DomyDom]

Just received an Email from baby cancelling my flights to from MAN to Bordeux for 12th June. Really dissapointed as WW were a class act with some interesting destinations but unfortunately what with the 'unusable' website and determination to get rid of aircraft, this isn't the way to return to good health. I have a feeling that LH are only interested in germanwings and if you don't want to fly from Cologne they are not interested.:ugh:

[parky747]

Does anyone have any further information as to what plan EZY have for MAN? By April 2010, the 5 based a/c will be in position as per the plan, but what is next?

[mufc4evr]

now I know wikipedia isn't the most truthful resource but I was Reading on there that Singapore virgin an etihad have all expressed interest in utilising the A380 at our beloved MAN, any truth? Also what about all the destinations it has fedex down as serving like IND, MEM an EWR???

[Ian Brooks]

mufc4evr

Dreams I would think, Fedex most likely but until economy picks up even that is a dream


Ian B

[MUFC_fan]

Fedex have in fact bought a new facility over by the cargo area which does suggest expansion.

They had planned (operated?) I think two years ago to operate these flights but then pulled out, blaming the economy.

It is only a matter of time but I would be unsure of destinations but these seem about right.

[jubilee]

Not checked if it has been posted before,but Etihad are upgrading to a 777-300
from June. Load factor for 2009 was close to 80%.
Jubilee

[Ringwayman]

Plently of snow diversions in this evening from Birmingham. Now as this was forecast perhaps the detractors of Manchester's performance earlier this year may contemplate that when it's persistent snow, there's not a lot you can do if you dont' order the perceived correct equipment to maintain operations if you are never likely to need it.

[MUFC_fan]

Will the Monarch A300 be operating on MAN routes this summer? If so, does anyone know which?

Thanks.

[SAM-EMA]

MAN - Scheduled Routes

ZB 0532 07MAY 29OCT Friday PMI
ZB 0546 06MAY 28OCT Thursday ACE
ZB 0548 01MAY 30OCT Saturday PMI
ZB 0564 07MAY 29OCT Friday TFS
ZB 0568 07MAY 29OCT Friday TFS
ZB 0594 02MAY 24OCT Sunday FAO

MAN - Charter Routes

MON1268 28MAY 01OCT Friday DLM
MON1286 06MAY 28OCT Thursday SSH
MON1828 03MAY 25OCT Monday CFU
MON3514 29JUN 28SEP Tuesday HER
MON3588 04MAY 05OCT Tuesday CHQ
MON3722 05MAY 27OCT Wednesday RHO
MON3974 04MAY 26OCT Tuesday HER
MON3978 07JUL 29SEP Wednesday RHO
MON4362 03APR 24APR Saturday SSH
MON4620 29MAR 26APR Monday LXR
MON4952 01APR 29APR Thursday SSH
MON5620 03MAY 25OCT Monday DLM
MON5642 02MAY 03OCT Sunday PVK
MON6586 28MAR 25APR Sunday SSH
MON7106 05MAY 27OCT Wednesday PFO
MON7174 05JUL 04OCT Monday CFU
MON7408 12JUL 13SEP Monday DLM

SAM-EMA

[Manchester Kurt]

Yesterday's MEN reported that Eithad are to incease capacity by about 60% by moving from a 262 seater A330-200 aircraft to a 412 seater B777-300.

Sorry if already mentioned on here.

[EC-ILS]

The above news was also reported on businesstraveller.com.

Great news for MAN after loosing out to DUB on the extra frequencies.

[Ian Brooks]

It actually works out that Manchester get more seats than Dublin so I guess we beat them really

Ian B

[GavinC]

press release:

ETIHAD TO UPGRADE CAPACITY ON MANCHESTER TO ABU DHABI ROUTE
Etihad Airways today announced it would increase capacity by close to 60 per cent on its Manchester services from June, upgrading its current two-class A330-200 aircraft to a two-class B777-300.

Etihad currently operates seven return services per week between Manchester and Abu Dhabi, with onward connections to Etihad’s expanding global network, including popular destinations Sydney, Melbourne, Bangkok, Cape Town and Islamabad. The capacity increase will mean an additional 2,100 seats per week on the route.

Peter Baumgartner, Etihad’s chief commercial officer, said: “Our services to Manchester have been performing very strongly, with load factors of close to 80 per cent in 2009. The business and investment ties between Manchester and Abu Dhabi have never been stronger and the introduction of the B777 furthers our commitment to this important route.

“We are pleased to support business and leisure travel to the region, as well as offering our customers greater access to Abu Dhabi and our expanding global network.”

Andrew Cornish, Manchester Airport’s Managing Director, said: "Etihad's service provides a crucial link between our two closely-linked regions and Etihad's decision to add capacity demonstrates real confidence in this vital relationship. The extra capacity further strengthens Manchester Airport's long haul route network and also provides an early sign of the predicted economic recovery. We look forward to working with Etihad to make the service a great success."

Sir Richard Leese, leader of Manchester City Council, said: "Manchester and Abu Dhabi have developed a significant partnership over the past few years and our business, cultural and sporting ties are delivering real benefits to both places. Etihad's continued investment in the route is a ringing endorsement of that partnership and this latest announcement of an enhanced service demonstrates the increasingly strong ties between the regions.”

Etihad has been operating services to Manchester since 2006 and offers connections from Manchester to Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow with its codeshare partner, bmi and from Manchester to Isle of Man, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Southampton and Inverness with its codeshare partner, Flybe.

In 2009, the airline signed a three-year deal to be the official shirt sponsor and partner of English Premier League side, Manchester City. This is one of the airline’s most important sponsorships, and allows the airline to build even stronger relationships between the two regions, including team tours to the United Arab Emirates, as well as community-based schemes in the UAE and Manchester such as the hugely successful Soccer Schools.

Etihad currently has six B777-300s in its fleet of 53 aircraft.

[HH6702]

great news.

any ideas on which airport will now be getting the A330.
any new route from them? any other UK routes?

[AndyH52]

Don't get too excited at the EY 773s, they are, shall we say, well used and starting to show signs of wear and tear. Having flown on four out of the five aircraft in the fleet over the last couple of years I much prefer the A330s for comfort and quality of the cabin.

[aeulad]

EY are actually taking delivery of new 77Ws as we speak, so I would assume the MAN route will get a mix of the older and newer models.

Regards

Mike

[crewmeal]

Don't get too excited at the EY 773s,

As they say size is not everything!!!

[OltonPete]

If 262 is the config then I make it 81% load factor assuming it ran every day per the CAA monthly stats.

The December figures are provisional but I make it 155192 down on 2008
which was 157566. However 2008 was itself up 11% from 2007 at 141688.

There were only increases in three of the last 12 months and although I have not checked the final QR & EK figures, Etihad lagged well behind in 2009.

However both Qatar and Emirates showed decreases in their annual figures in 2008 compared to 2007 (18% down in Qatar's case).

With only 22 business seats and no other option than the 77W, I suppose
it was the only choice if business is constantly selling out. The A333 is in
three class config and does LHR most days, which makes that a non-starter.

The 77W shows 28/350 (44% increase) on the EY website & seatguru, does this mean a config change to make the 60% as mentioned in the press release?

Pete

[jubilee]

The figures of 60% increase in capacity and almost 80% load factor I posted earlier, came from a Radio Manchester interview with a spokesman from Etihad.
Jubilee.

[Ian Brooks]

Hi Pete
I think the EY B773 are having a reconfigue to 415 or somewhere in that region

Ian B

[OltonPete]

Cheers Ian.

I know it was unlikely that EY would make a gaff like that but I had not seen any reports of a new seating layout on the 777. I got a link to
the EY site showing 378 still and I must admit I thought it sounded quite
generous compared to EK's 427/428/442 configs.

Pete

[AirLCY]

EK squeeze 10 abreast on the 777's where as EY have the more common 9 abreast config, perhaps they're changing this to 10 abreast like EK???

[Ringwayman]

One article doesn't expressly say 10 across but makes the observation that "the current EY Y class cabin on 77Ws seat 350 passengers but that it is known that 384 passengers would be in the Y cabin"

[Manchester Exile]

I flew out of Ringway on the Etihad flight last Saturday (13th Feb). The flight was booked at quite short notice, and I tried to fly their Pearl Business cabin, but it was fully booked, so I had to sit in Coral Economy down the back. The flight was packed - I ased the crew what the load was, and they said there was one spare seat in economy.

[MAN777]

Etihad and Qatar both diverted to London due snow at MAN (about 2 inches)

[Suzeman]

Last 6 hours

EGCC 210750Z 10003KT 3000 -SN SCT003 BKN011 M00/M00 Q0990=
EGCC 210720Z 07006KT 040V100 0600 R05L/P1500 -SN BKN003 M00/M00 Q0990=
EGCC 210650Z 08006KT 0400 R05L/0900 SN BKN003 M00/M00 Q0990=
EGCC 210620Z 08005KT 0900 R05L/1400 SN BKN004 00/M00 Q0991=
EGCC 210550Z 09006KT 2400 -SN SCT006 BKN008 00/M00 Q0991=
EGCC 210520Z 12008KT 2400 -SN SCT006 BKN010 00/M00 Q0992=
EGCC 210450Z 13004KT 4500 -SHSN SCT009 SCT012 01/M00 Q0992=
EGCC 210420Z 13004KT 8000 -SHSN FEW017 SCT021 01/M01 Q0993=
EGCC 210350Z 15006KT 9999 -SHSN FEW033 01/M01 Q0993=
EGCC 210320Z AUTO 14006KT 9999NDV FEW037/// 01/M02 Q0993=

Airport managed to stay open until approx 0630.

Suzeman

[Ian Brooks]

See you bought weather back with you Suzemanhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif


Ian B

[AirLCY]

EY are changing their economy config to 10 abreast which adds 34 seats or something, which is a shame, but I guess good for MAN with extra seats.

[daynehold]

Relatively light snow fall (at least in South Manchester) and the Airport Authority is again struggling to stay open - significant take off delays a couple of hours ago - the proverbial "drinking session in a brewery" is the only apt way of describing the situation:}

[Ringwayman]

Did you see the METARS? Do you understand them? What's the point in sweeping snow off the runway only to see more return? Closure was around 0630 to 0900.

Birmingham was closed as was East Midlands but you never see criticism of them. MAN handled a Dublin diversion last night due snow, and on Friday evening there were around 10 diversions from Birmingham.

[IB4138]

Relatively light snow fall (at least in South Manchester)

Exactly daynehold. That may be the case where you are, but not at the airport or for that matter on Hough Hill in Stalybridge, which is on the approach, before passing over Stockport and had about 4 inches of snow fall on it early this morning. Additionally, on the railways, only two platforms were open at Crewe this morning, because of amount of snow fall. :ugh:

Strikes me that by your lack of knowledge of prevailing weather conditions, that you must be employed by the Met Office or some other weather guessing institution. :eek:

[MAN777]

Here we go again,

Snow problems

MAN sits around and waits for the snow to stop then clears it at whatever rate is dictated by equipment and staff availability. Makes sense really when you have limited resources.

There is not much point in criticising the ops staff who have to manage with what they have got. Unless there are major funding and equipment changes (unlikely) then I think that nothing will change.

Its all been said before and there is nothing more to add.

Its Birminghams turn again tomorrow according to the BBC

[Ringwayman]

Don't be too surprised if Tuesday and/or Wedneday sees a flake or 2 million hit the airport again.

[mrmagooo]

How many times must it snow and shut the airport before it is considered not freak weather and investment in equipment needed? In the past year we have had some extraordinary snowfall but if you believe global warming theories etc, then it will continue to get worse in the long run........

[Ringwayman]

As soon as someone can have a greater degree of certainty that the equipment is going to be needed on more than 4 or 5 times every 30 years.

[Ian Brooks]

All seem well handled today as it was very wet snow and fell very quickly
over a shortish period and and left about 4ins which was cleared in just over 2 hours


Ian B

[lexoncd]

Pathetic response to the conditions which like it or not happen year after year. Since having two runways the airport suffers from more delays than ever before....

[daynehold]

Strikes me that by your lack of knowledge of prevailing weather conditions, that you must be employed by the Met Office or some other weather guessing institution.

Sorry you are wrong, employed by the Department of Common Sense - unfortunately we are finding it difficult to recruit suitable people!!!:ok:

[750XL]

I was at the airport today and it was coming down thick and fast from 4am onwards. There was quite a large fleet of snow clearing equipment around the airfield keeping the stands clear. I'd love to know what people here would suggest MAPLC should do to reduce the delays?

2-3 inches of snow at MAN and 4 miles down the road at my home there was next to nothing. :ugh:

[opnot]

Lexoncd, daynehold
Birmingham snowclo for nearly 12 hours Thur/Fri I suppose they must be as crap as Manch for snow clearance

[al446]

Pathetic response to the conditions which like it or not happen year after year

Have I been dreaming the past few very mild winters or is lexoncd talking tosh?

[MancRy]

I was stuck on the ground on one of our flights this morning for 4 hours. Amongst our pax were some Canadian's. They didn't see the disruption as out of the ordinary............there local airport has to close during heavy snow fall too for a short period whilst the snow is cleared.

The runway was cleared pretty quickly if i'm being honest, de-icing and getting the de-icing timing right is what compounds the delays. Theres no point buying equipment that sits arounds gathering rust. The airport cloded for a few hours, get over it.

[Helen49]

Unless you are aware of and understand the demanding standards required on runway surfaces , it would be wise to desist from comment about the snow clearing operations. ICAO, EASA, the CAA, not to mention the operators etc require surfaces to be pretty much clear of ALL contaminants.......snow [wet & dry], slush, ice, water [more than 3mm].

A few more facts. Dealing with the elements is not easy. Snow clearing & de-icing equipment is extremely expensive. Additional staff required to operate the above equipment are costly to provide. People expect a magic wand to be waved and everything to operate on time. The comments of the Canadian pax. mentioned above should be noted.
Helen

[TURIN]

Additional staff required to operate the above equipment are costly to provide. People expect a magic wand to be waved and everything to operate on time.

Very true, H. :ok:

Unfortunately most pax nowadays don't want to pay for that. :ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

Unfortunately most pax nowadays don't want to pay for that.

PLease don't blame the passengers for the mistakes of the people running the business. It's like wondering why the kids are fat 'cos mum and dad keep feeding them...

Theres no point buying equipment that sits arounds gathering rust. The airport cloded for a few hours, get over it.
Like...
1) Chutes
2) Lifejackets
3) Ropes
4) Airport Fire Services
5) My kidney donor card

All there for good reason and factored into the costs of running the business. The problem is that robust de-icing and snow clearing is now seen as optional rather than a necessary practice. As your man said, get them and you shouldn't be "cloded" for too long.....

[MancRy]

The equipment you mentioned are safety equipment. Oh and airport fire services do not just attend "crashes". Aswell as being called out for numerous precautionary landings each week they are also needed right across the airport.

[Helen49]

Skipness One Echo boasts that he/she knows 'squat diddly'!

I rest my case!

The age of 'Loco' means that Loco airlines don't want to pay the kind of airport charges of yesteryear and their clientele want the cheapest available fare. [That's why so many airports have super shopping centres and car parking is the main emphasis of their web sites. Airports have to make money somehow!].

Safety equipment is mandatory on the part of airports and air operators. Airports are required to have a snow contingency plan but there are no requirements to clear manoeuvring and apron areas within any particular time scale. That is left largely to the airport operator.

Equipment and personnel availability will determine the speed of clearance together with the prevailing weather conditions. If it continues to snow/freeze etc it may be sensible to delay commencement of clearing operations. Alternatively the clearance time will be determined by the quantities of contaminant, wind, temperature, cessation of the weather etc.

It certainly is not quite as simple as it may appear to the uninitiated spectators!

Helen 49

[Betablockeruk]

Bedtime reading :ok:

http://www.magworld.co.uk/magweb.nsf/Content/AirOpsDLWinterOpsPlan

Bet the author didn't have much enthusiasm to write such an intricate manual for such an unlikely event.

[Skipness One Echo]

It certainly is not quite as simple as it may appear to the uninitiated spectators!

Helen, as a commercial analyst of some experience I know a wee bit about the above. It's not exactly rocket science either let's be clear. The problem is that core services (snow clearing in the event of winter weather in.....winter) are being treated as non essential. Revenue which in past years went to paying for a well trained staff and up to date contingency plan has been assigned elsewhere. A fragmentation of responsibilities on some airfeilds has added to things The end result being some people simply crossed their fingers and assumed mild winters were here to stay. How well did that work for the business?

If airfield management wasn't so desperate then we wouldn't be where we are now. Standing up to Ryanair was a good start from MAN, however it will take some time to stop the erosion of margins in a fiercely competitive trading environment.

I also know enough that MAN's projected passenger figures were out by a country mile and projected revenue did not materialise. That is most certainly not the fault of the consumer. TWO runways on current figures are a nice to have but hardly an essential.

Stop lashing out and look a touch closer to home I think.

Skipness One Echo boasts that he/she knows 'squat diddly'!
Do try and play the ball in future....

[planenutter]

http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php?success=1#!/photo.php?pid=3654655&id=614914600

[TURIN]

PLease don't blame the passengers for the mistakes of the people running the business. It's like wondering why the kids are fat 'cos mum and dad keep feeding them...


I put it to you then Skip me old mukka,

Ask a bunch of passengers.

a. Pay £10 for your flight and if it snows I'm afraid we may shut the airport for a bit and you won't get home on time. Oh and by the way when was the last time it snowed heavily for any length of time round 'ere?

b. Pay £100 for your flight and we will spend most of that on buying heavy snow clearing/de-icing gear and keeping a load of staff up to date on it's use and.....etc, etc.?

I know what I would answer and it ain't b.

Ball played sweetly out of the middle of the bat methinks. Lets see where it lands. :ok:

[Momentary Lapse]

Developing some of the ideas above, what about the appropriate regulator putting KPIs on airport operators to clear the main areas after a certain time?

The operators would need more kit/personnel to achieve this, or have to dual-train other operatives, or whatever.

Just a random idea: what're your thoughts?

[Mr A Tis]

Can we put the MAN snow clearing chat to bed please. Its the same over & over again. Most Euro airports have closed over this harsh winter, including this week Birmingham (12 hours?) & Frankfurt & many others.
No other airport forum constantantly goes on & on about it. It snows...it closes- end of, MAN is certainly no worse than any other UK airport IMHO.
Nothing is like it used to be....airlines are not what they used to be, flying is not what it used to be, security is not what it used to be, policeman are not what they used to be, customer service in shops is not what it used to be & neither is airport priorities....get over it.:sad:

[Trash_Hauler]

Can we put the MAN snow clearing chat to bed please. Its the same over & over again. Most Euro airports have closed over this harsh winter, including this week Birmingham (12 hours?) & Frankfurt & many others.
No other airport forum constantantly goes on & on about it. It snows...it closes- end of, MAN is certainly no worse than any other UK airport IMHO.
Nothing is like it used to be....airlines are not what they used to be, flying is not what it used to be, security is not what it used to be, policeman are not what they used to be, customer service in shops is not what it used to be & neither is airport priorities....get over it.

Here here!! :D:D:D

[Helen49]

Mr A. Tis..........very well said and the realistic truth!

Helen

[Bagso]

...and finally lets not forget, if we had, had, a more a typically mild winter but MAG had spent £1m+ on some state of the art snow clearing equipment back in say October , there are those in here (probably me included), who would be slaughtering them as it now lay idle and gathering dust in one of the hangars....

on this one its a no win situation.....

Any chance of us getting back to discussing Air India.......?

I was really interested in some of the discussion good and bad, but some of the usual suspects never passed comment, and then we were hijacked by the dreaded "snow debate", must be some more mileage in this topic :ok:

[cyclops16]

I have looked at another post with reference to expanding our rail network at MAN by including another platform and the tram stops that are planned. Would there be any point in adding a rail line to Cargo Centre for freight that is off loaded from aircraft or for onward passage via MAN via the rail network?
We already have access to Motorways,Sea Port (ship canal at Trafford),obviously other airports that are all either on-site or within 15 minutes.Adding a freight line would mean we become an "all-mode" hub for international traffic.
But is it viable in the long term to add a line?


Mark

[MUFC_fan]

The Hindu Business Line : AI to begin daily service to Washington via Milan (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blnus/09241001.htm)

Milan looks like the likely recipient

[Manchester Kurt]

As it stands today my understanding is that the rail network around Manchester is full, they cannot fit any further trains on the lines, as such a freight line would not be able to run any trains during the day (although night time would be a different matter).

Until HSR & or Manchester Hub are delivered the tracks are full I'm afraid.

[AndyH52]

Well that was relatively short lived...

Danube wings (http://www.danubewings.com/lris-presentation/html/news/newsDetail.faces)

[GavinC]

With regards to freight connections to the rail link, it would be more likely that the Mid Cheshire line just north of Mobberley station could branch off and serve the freight park as its on that side of the airport. Platform 3 has been built so that a line could go underneath the apron and link to this line in the future providing connections to Chester and North Wales for the airport. Perhaps the two could be done at the same time.

Interestingly, the Manchester Hub study did not suggest this link gets built although the airport could fund it separately i would imagine if they thought it would help increase passenger numbers sufficiently through improved connectivity and improve its environmental rating through increasing Rails modal share.

With regards to Platform 4 at The Station, i don't know where this would located in relation to the current platforms but would be interested to see the early designs.

Gavin.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Further to the above re. Danube Wings:

Instructions for customers of cancelled flights to Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland

Danube Wings upon agreement with Czech Airlines will terminate lease of their plane with crew starting 7. March 2010. Flights in March and April are definitely cancelled. We expect that all the other flights to Great Britain and republic in Ireland during summer season will be cancelled as well.

We apologize to all the customers from cancelled flights for inconvenience. Please follow the instructions in the Danube Wings email of February 24th. If you bought ticket to any of the cancelled destinations and you did not receive our email, please contact us on the address [email protected].

The reasons why Danube Wings decided to revise the flight schedule were high investment costs of operations in the Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland. This decision is closely connected with allocation of company sources towards summer flight schedule 2010.

Danube Wings concentrates its sources to opening eight new southern destinations in Croatia – Zadar, Split, Rijeka, and Italy – Reggio Calabria, Catania, Crotone, Bologna, Milan, which are already in sale. Company will continue to carry on domestic flights from Poprad-Tatry and Kosice. Cost effectiveness of all the provided flights is continuously monitored.

[TissieSaffie]

Hi all,

I've flown from Manchester numerous times on visits to the States, however they've all been from Terminal One. This summer I'm flying with Virgin, which is T2, I was wondering if anyone could let me know how it compares to T1? In terms of shops (amount, size, range etc.), eating places, viewing areas, etc. Hopefully it's a decent size and has plenty to keep me occupied for several hours before departure!

Cheers all,
Gaz.

[MAN777]

I am not sure when you last flew but both T1 & T2 have had millions spent on retailing outlets recently, in my opinion T1 is better as its slightly newer but T2 seems to have just as many shops but they are a bit more spread out. T2 has panoramic views of the whole of the west apron and distant views of the runway. I would say there is more than enough to keep you occupied.:ok:

[750XL]

T1 has a much larger range of shops and restaurants etc compared to T2, although T1 often gets a lot more busier. T2 has WHSmith, Sunglasses Shop, Claires Accessories, Duty Free, Dixons, Monsoon and a few cafes/resturants and a bar.

T2 does have larger viewing areas but recently a lot of them have been out of bounds due to the new security on USA flights. They've been blocking off certain areas near the windows for search areas.

[TissieSaffie]

Yeah I flew last year from T1 after it's overhaul and was quite impressed. Glad T2 has some decent viewing area's to keep me amused and shops to keep the other half amused!!

As long as I can get a decent English breakfast at 7am I'll be happy :)

[johnnychips]

It's not the end of the world is it? I was interested to find out that some areas are now screened off, and part of the title of this section is 'airports'. I can see what you mean a bit, but I assume PPrune has enough storage space, and your rant took up nearly as much room as the brief - and to me interesting - correspondence about T2, without actually mentioning Manchester.

[Momentary Lapse]

Given that Daventry International Rail Freight Terminal, in the middle of the country and just off the WCML, took years to get going and even now only works because Eddie Stobart and Tesco took it over, I can't see a business case for tuppenny-hapenny volumes at Cargo ever breaking even.

[gsky]

"I can't see a business case for tuppenny-hapenny volumes at Cargo ever breaking even. "

Correct.
Its mainly politics/green initiatives.
and also takes public money, lots, to do this.
Still ends up on a lorry at some point!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Does anyone know why the time stamp on this thread is way out, l know some say they are a little slow up North.
Posting this at 11-37am.

[barry lloyd]

l know some say they are a little slow up North.


It may have something to do with the fact that the server is on the west coast of the USA, which is, er, let's see -8 from GMT - or UTC if you insist. You see, we're not that slow:)

[smudgethecat]

Thats you told mr spotty:)

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I take your point, but l still think my explanation might be more accurate, as it is the MAN thread which seems to be the only one that is 8 hours out.:ok:

[Ian Brooks]

Bit like the Bermuda Triangle isn`t it


Ian B

[barry lloyd]

Well perhaps it's because it's twinned with LAX (Yes, I know:rolleyes:).

[MUFC_fan]

Private jet travel booming at Manchester Airport : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-270210.html)

The economy may be on the up then...

I can understand most of those destinations however - Paris?! There are many flights per day, its not like timing is a problem! Get on AF J!

Is it just me or does hiring a private jet to Paris make no sense? I guess that the only way to make it financially viable is to make sure it flies full, reducing the average cost which would then probably be competitive with AF J then.

[west lakes]

Er you can't actually just hire a Netjets aircraft. They are a fractional cost organisation (a bit like flying timeshare)

[mickyman]

MUFC_fan

If your hiring (or fraction) a biz-jet then money does not
necessarily come into it - its more the flexability.

Trying to 'fill' a biz-jet up before it leaves is not a
consideration for 'big-wigs' of sport/industry even in a down
turn.

MM

[horatio_b]

One thing Manchester has definitely improved over the past couple of years is security. Yesterday, I was on Heald Green station at 6:33am and in the departure lounge at 6:51am. Whilst obviously not peak season, that still is a pretty efficient operation.