FlyBe - 6

[big d1]

At the end of the day I suppose it just depends which market you are targeting. Generally Flybe goes for routes which need a smaller aircraft, where as EasyJet go for routes that need bigger aircraft. Going back to Flybe, im sure our E195 crew would be more than happy doing an over night flight to Poland and back :ok:

[Chesty Morgan]

Not a chance big d1, I'd rather eat my own face!

[big d1]

At least it probably taste's better than the crew food :yuk:

[Nakata77]

Wizzair flew BOH-Katowice and Gdansk for a short time, easyJet flew BOH-Krakow and Ryanair flew BOH-Wroclaw. None of them lasted because the drop in Polish people living in the South was too significant after the boom in Polish influx of 2006 and 2007. Polish routes from the whole of the UK have somewhat fallen. But i still do believe Warsaw would be good from SOU/BOH. whether Flybe do it i'm not sure. Flybe were probably concerned if they went on the SOU-Polish routes that a LCC would do the same from BOH. But i think that is unlikely now so Flybe should be OK to explore. I would suggest 3 weekly flights with an E-195 118 seats. Having said that, Poland - UK is a low yielding market and it may be more suited to larger aircraft, lower fares.

[adfly]

I would imagine the 175's would be good for this route say 3-4 flights per week.

[airhumberside]

Just think your limiting the routes you can operate by having a bigger plane. Makes sense to have one type but why not a small plane? You can operate far more routes and if you need extra capacity just add more rotations. More frequency is only going to be welcomed by customers
In some cases that may be appropiate, but in other cases not. Airport slots, landing fees etc need to considered. Crewing costs and availability are another factor

Unfortuantely the site is currently undergoing maintenance, but there was quote on anna.aero recently about Norweigan being prepared to sacrifice some routes as it reties it's B737-300's, replacing them with larger B737-800's.

[dublindispatch]

LOT operated the E-Jets from WAW-DUB-WAW for a couple of years mind you it was usually a choice between pax and fuel or fuel and bags but rarely both on the same plane!!

Nice planes but a mini clubman estate has a bigger baggage capacity!!!!

[teleparty]

I agree with Nakata and adfly, either way I think its worth a try especially with an overnight stop as with all these new aircraft coming they are going to need to park them somewhere.

[big d1]

I expect Flybe to expand with flights over to Scandinavia, more routes to Italy, Spain and possibly intra France before you see Flybe moving into Poland. Also generally Flybe seems to avoid night stopping crew and aircraft away from base.

[Chesty Morgan]

with all these new aircraft coming they are going to need to park them somewhere.

Yup. Continental Europe. Most of them anyway.

[teleparty]

Yeah always wandered why flybe hadn't tried Scandinavia. A route from Southampton would surely work considering the oil links.

[darren1]

No need for night stops abroad, just overnight flights, 10PM departure from SOU, 2-3 hour flight, hours turn around and then back to SOU for the first landing of the day circa 6AM. The plane would then be available for a 7AM departure.

When the E170 arrive it would be nice to see BCN on the SOU route map. Other potential destinations maybe FCO, MXP, MUC and CPH:ok:

[Chesty Morgan]

Sounds good we don't, and never will, do night shifts so it's a non-starter.

[teleparty]

Totally agree darren. All of those routes on the face of it look like they would work. Shame about not doing night flights. Am amazed how much power pilots and flight attendants have in airlines. Seen enough collapse already as a result of their stubborness.

[Chesty Morgan]

It's not stubborness on our part mate, there aren't enough pilots or cabin crew to cover 24 hours of flying.

The other reason would be lack of aircraft to cover the early morning departures should something get stuck somewhere over night. Remember these current routes are the bread and butter of Flybe's business. There are precious few spares as it is to cover the usual schedule without adding to their commitment.

[teleparty]

Well sure that needs to be taken into consideration but I think we were refering to when the new aircraft came online and presumably extra crews. I was of the impression there were many pilots on furlough, if not they could always introduce more sponsorship places.

[Serenity]

Teleparty - I can tell you don't work for Flybe.
No pilots waiting to return to work, management were very good at not laying people off and getting new contracts to keep busy over the past 18 months!! Due credit where it is deserved, they have done well there and with the new Finish contract too, but people are already working max hours at many bases!
However shiny little jets won't keep people if management don't settle the current dissatisfaction with rosters and pay. There may be lots of MPL cadets to come, but many experienced people from both seats are likely to walk soon, so they won't keep what they have let alone increase numbers!!

[learjet50]

Re your suugestion re nights flights.

As the majority of the FlyBe flights are aimed at the Business Market howver to be fair they do carry a lot of Leisure Traffic.


Who would want to do a Night Flight certainly not the business Traffic.

I doubt the Leisure Business could make sense because it it could pay they would be doing it


Just my thoughts



Regards

[PPRuNe Pop]

Teleparty is taking a 'rest' to reflect!

[Cloud1]

Through fear of losing my reputation of upsetting the apple cart to Teleparty.....can we please change the subject and get back to Flybe?

Does anyone know what the advanced bookings are like on the Manston - Manchester route?

[CabinCrewe]

Manston EDI levelled off around 60% loads, not bad for a point to point with little advertising, not sure if there is room for it to pick up.

[Cloud1]

The EDI route has been performing well, proving those that criticised the timings of the flight wrong. In fact the MSE-EDI I believe often carry more than those from Exeter and that is a double daily service so I guess we may see the MSE rotations being doubled at some point in the future?

It is however the MSE-MAN I am interested in because it has not really been discussed in great detail. When the EDI route was launched there was a lot of speculation over loads but nothing with the MAN.....

[flyingfunder]

Can anyone please tell me when Flybe publish their timetable to Bergerac in April 2011 thank you. Sorry if this off the thread but it is Flybe!

[airhumberside]

SOU-Bergerac is on sale for April 2011 - operating once daily

[aeulad]

I see EXT/SOU sun routes are on sale but nothing from HUY. Is the AGP being dropped?

Regards

Mike

[flyingfunder]

Thanks airhumberside but its a Newcastle or Manchester flight in april that I was looking for to Bergerac

[fredtheanorak]

so, 2 new aircraft in BHD. 4x LPL, 2x BRS, 2xEMA. Gap filled. Well done the lads.

[big d1]

Pass me a hat to eat. Just seen the email, did not see that one coming. Really thought it would be EZY moving in to fill the gap. Will mean we are up to 9 based aircraft at BHD. Full schedule details available from 7th sept.

[clareview]

Its important to remember that Flybe did BHD-Bristol in the past and walked away. In addition, amidst great hype, it started Liverpool - BHD a few years ago but slowly and quietly withdrew (presumably when Easy flexed its muscles. We shall see this time.

All this is a useful reminder that its just now Ryanair that comes and goes when it suits for business (profit) reasons.

[JobsaGoodun]

Its important to remember that Flybe did BHD-Bristol in the past and walked away. In addition, amidst great hype, it started Liverpool - BHD a few years ago but slowly and quietly withdrew (presumably when Easy flexed its muscles. We shall see this time.

Fair comments but the Flybe you see now is very different to the one that left the BRS route, and even the LPL route more recently. I think Flybe have learned that they have a crtitical mass now that will see them hold their own.

Not saying they won't make it work but maybe it's better to lose a little operating the route yourself than allowing a competitor to come in and take the market, and in time, the others you've worked so hard to build.

[Tonyq]

How can BE produce 2 aircraft for this BHD expansion plus 3 to the new Helsinki set up.

Surely it can't all be covered by seasonal adjustments, so is there some contraction elsewhere, which gets less of a fanfare?

[Deano777]

All we need now is a Bristol base :ok:

[Flightrider]

The aircraft going to Finland are surely three of the four returning from the previous wet-leases to Olympic in Greece. As for the rest, Jethros shows that they've already got one back from Olympic with no new routes started to show for it plus one existing spare, so the extra BHD routes shouldn't need any major cull elsewhere to provide aircraft. Crew resource is another matter!

[FL370 Officeboy]

The two Q400s that have returned from Olympic have replaced outgoing ex-SAS aircraft.

There will be five Q400s in Finland by next summer.

Remember, the new Q400s start being delivered next spring which will also boost numbers.

[clareview]

Flybe can produce the extra 2 aircraft quite simply - the returns from Olympic plus the winter schedule makes less demand on resources than the summer schedule so some capacity is freed up. In terms of scaling up again for next summer, there are still D8's on order

[Coffin Corner]

There will be five Q400s in Finland by next summer.

You sure about that? If you've bought any winter woolies you'll do well to have hung on to the receipt.

[Certa Cito]

Indeed.
Finnair's a dead duck.

[second coming]

Hope flybe are getting some new aircraft then. Seem to be a lot of delays at the moment. Think they have a cityjet aircraft already drafted in. Need to concentrate on their bases rather than expanding at other random airports. Can't see a base at Bristol, surely that would just dilute Exeter?

[Cloud1]

The delays are no worse than any other airline at the moment - its a peak period of the year when the aircraft are flying several sectors a day. One minor problem can set back the rest of the programme but its not as bad as one would suggest....

I too had heard Finnair was 'a dead duck' so this will free up the three aircraft due to go out there initially. As it is I think Flybe are going to remain reasonably busy this winter even without operating for other oversea carriers (Olympic, Finnair etc)

[second coming]

Your probably right. Have noticed its the same routes that suffer though if something goes wrong. Southampton dublin is often delayed or canceled. Is listed as one of their top international destinations from Southampton as well.

[Whispering Giant]

Think you will find that the delay's of the last couple of day's have been due to the French Air traffic Controller's going on strike, which caused several aircraft to be stranded or very severly delayed.

bgds

W.G

[ajamieson]

Think you will find that the delay's of the last couple of day's have been due to the French Air traffic Controller's going on strike
Really? I was in DUB on Monday and the SOU was cancelled "due to a technical fault with the aircraft". Maybe it hit a flock of apostrophes on landing.

[assymetricdrift]

Agreed on this...

There seems to be a lot of hearsay about Finnair - but the airfield briefs for this region (Scandanavia, and a few others!)have appeared on the destination briefing page in the last week.

It has gone quiet quiet, but as far as I'm aware, it's still going ahead.

[second coming]

Reading some of your posts wingo I got the impression you were a man's man. :rolleyes:

[redED]

So whats the latest on the Finnair deal? Any of these rumour's confirmed or is it simply galley FM on overdrive since not much has been said recently?

Is this public forum really such a place to post public sensitive information, that's how we nearly lost the Greek contract, try flyingbe instead.

[Chesty Morgan]

Umm Wingo Wango, do you want to read number 7?

[Chesty Morgan]

Roger, just checking:ok:

[JC25]

First phase of BE/AF code share flights have gone on sale for MAN/BHX to CDG and SOU-ORY.

There are significant capacity increases from BE:

MAN-CDG will increase from 3/4x daily Q400 to 4x E195 and 3x Q400 (weekdays) plus up to 7x daily AF operated flights.

BHX-CDH will increase from 3x daily Q400 to 6x daily E195 (weekdays) plus up to 6x daily AF operated flights.

Also looks like two BE E195's will night stop at CDG to operate early departures from CDG back to MAN and BHX.

SOU-ORY will be 3x daily Q400 in addition to 3x daily AF operated flights.

Looks like MAN will get a second E195 to operate the additional services (unless the MXP will be shunted onto a Q400).

[redED]

Confirmed now here (http://balticbusinessnews.com/article/2010/09/09/Finnair_scores_victory_over_airBaltic_in_battle_for_Finncomm _Airlines)

Finnish national carrier Finnair and Finncomm Airlines announced today that they have agreed on cooperation in this winter season's flight traffic and on sale of 20% of Finncomm to Finnair. The deal represents a major victory for Finnair that had for some time been battling attempts by Latvian airline airBaltic to take over Finncomm, according to newspaper reports.

Under the code-share agreement with Finnair, Finncomm will in addition to several Finnish destinations also fly to Tallinn, as it has to date.

As a feeder airline for Finnair, Finncomm's timetable is adjusted so that it fits well with the timetables of Finnair's international scheduled traffic.

The new commercial agreement replaces the previously announced agreement between Finnair and the airline Flybe on the arrangement of feeder traffic. Nevertheless, negotiations on cooperation with Flybe in other traffic will continue.

Finnair said also it had signed a preliminary agreement on the purchase of a 20 percent minority interest in Finncomm Airlines and on the acquisition of the entire share stock of the companies that own the Finncomm Group's 12 ATR aircraft.

The purchase price for the aircraft companies is a preliminary 38 million euros.
(including debt). The purchase price of 20 percent of Finncomm Airlines is a preliminary 10 million euros which also takes into account the possibility of increasing ownership in FCA at a later date.

In 2009 Finncomm Airlines declared turnover of 86.7 million euros. Finncomm and subsidiaries involved in Finncomm's business operations have around 325 employees.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Looks like there is still some Devon/Nordic chit chat going on. Just spotted this on ATI:

Flybe still discussing co-operation pact with Finnair
(09Sep10 15:20 GMT) David Kaminski-Morrow, London
UK regional airline Flybe is still intending to operate in the Scandinavian market for Finnair despite the flag-carrier's new feeder arrangement with Finncomm Airlines.
Flybe had been planning to operate feeder routes to Helsinki from three regional cities, but Finnair has instead switched these services to Finncomm.
Despite the change Flybe and Finnair insist they are still in "detailed and deep dialogue" on several new developments.
The two airlines expect the talks to generate a "significant co-operation agreement" which could yet involve Flybe's deploying aircraft in the Scandinavian market and operating a range of services in the region.
Finnair senior vice-president of operations Ville Iho says the airline will "need a solid partner" to provide competitive, high-quality services as it develops its presence in the Nordic states, adding: "Flybe definitely meets those criteria."

[bycrewlgw]

Any news over 2011 routes from CWL? I know that German routes were under discussion. Could this happen?

[The96er]

First phase of BE/AF code share flights have gone on sale for MAN/BHX to CDG and SOU-ORY

Does this mean that those flights from MAN will no longer carry the BA flight code ?

[OltonPete]

JC25

Increase is not the word for BHX - nine flights reduced to six!!!!

Not completely done the sums but it appears a slight loss of seats,
six movements a day less in summer and four in winter.

The good news for BHX one AF flight is a A318 but still two RJ85's.

Only three flights showing on the AF site are flybe although I must
admit I thought all the flights on the BE site were showing as 195's.

I will re-check but it looks like a loss of seats, frequency and competition.

Pete

[second coming]

Why has flybe decided to operate to orly from Southampton? I know Air France had transferred their own route there but all of flybe's other routes go through CDG. Seems strange.

[OltonPete]

Something not quite right with the booking engines but the times match
from BHX - 3 x BE and 3 x AF. Basically the Air France times are kept and
the flybe ones gone.

flybe £80 return base fare AF £212 for the same flight!!!.

Manchester goes from 5 x AF and 3 x BE to 4 x BE (2 x Q400, 2 x 195)
and 3 x AF (2 x 320 and 1 x 321).

Massive savings on night-stops for Air France as BHX first out is a flybe
195 and MAN has a 195 depart at 06.15 followed by a Q400 at 06.45.

Pete

[JobsaGoodun]

There are significant capacity increases from BE:

MAN-CDG will increase from 3/4x daily Q400 to 4x E195 and 3x Q400 (weekdays) plus up to 7x daily AF operated flights.

BHX-CDH will increase from 3x daily Q400 to 6x daily E195 (weekdays) plus up to 6x daily AF operated flights.

Also looks like two BE E195's will night stop at CDG to operate early departures from CDG back to MAN and BHX.

SOU-ORY will be 3x daily Q400 in addition to 3x daily AF operated flights.

Looks like MAN will get a second E195 to operate the additional services (unless the MXP will be shunted onto a Q400).

This doesn't seem accurate. I'd have thought that AF would want to save money by no longer nightstopping aircraft in either BHX or MAN, instead BE would operate the early flights to CDG with the E195 instead of the Q400.
I'm not sure that BE would nightstop their aircraft in CDG. Surely it would be most cost effective to have AF operating these early CDG departures?

With SOUORY I would very much doubt that a coopertation would see the two airlines actively compete. I reckon you'll see AF stop operating this route, particularly if BE have already put the route on sale.

There has to be cost efficiencies in there for both airlines otherwise this partnership doesn't really yield much for either party.

[second coming]

Yeah i'm sure they will stop operating it themself but why not choose CDG over Orly? All flybe's other routes go through CDG and there are more connections through it. Doesn't make sense.

[Cloud1]

The SOUORL route with AF is stopping and Flybe is simply replacing them. Because both airlines were operating into Paris and the majority of traffic seem to prefer ORL, this was the one they went for.

Flybe have made several statements that they may well bring back 1 or 2 daily CDG rotations but not straight away

[JC25]

From BE:

Today we have put an early selection of seats on sale offering increased choice, capacity, enhanced services and added frequency on key routes to France.

It’s all about lots of new seats now on sale for travel effective October 31st in an exciting package that includes more choice, more flights, more routes, added frequency and enhanced services to France for Flybe passengers!

In what is the first of a two-phase release resulting from our recently announced codeshare arrangement with Air France, we have announced four significant pieces of news that greatly enhance our services into Paris:

An increased choice of up to 14 daily flights to and from Manchester and Paris (CDG)
An increased choice of up to 12 flights a day to and from Birmingham and Paris (CDG)
A new service operating between Edinburgh and Paris (CDG) offering up to six flights a day

Increased frequency on our new route to and from Southampton airport and Paris Orly airport with up to six convenient flights a day

In what will prove yet another real benefit to Flybe passengers, effective October 31st, all of our services to and from Paris Charles de Gaulle airport will conveniently connect to the Air France hub at Terminal 2E. This will greatly expand Flybe’s global reach and allow seamless and easy access to all of Air France’s extensive international services.

[OltonPete]

JC25

Cheers for this, someone on a BHX forum has managed to dip into GDS
and indeed he says six BHX services are showing as 195's but this is at
odds to the Air France website.

Although I did say that something was up as all BHX flights had defaulted
to £212 return, which I should have known is give away that things are in
the process of change.

Having said that, 12 a day seems massive overkill even with the code-share.

BHX - CDG only averages around 25-30k pax per month.

Pete

[Exasperated]

Having said that, 12 a day seems massive overkill even with the code-share.

That will be six each way

Ex

[OltonPete]

Ex

This seems more like it but the quote in the press release says

"An increased choice of up to 12 flights a day to and from Birmingham and Paris (CDG)"

So BHX now has 18 (9 each way), flights a day, so how would removing 6 flights increase choice - don't answer that one!!!!!

I suppose it does say "to and from" - so really just more spin. Reduced number of seats, reduced number of flights but slightly better aircraft in the main.

Pete

[Ian Brooks]

Still does not make sense as it says upto 7 AF flights a day whilst at present booking engine finishes at 15.45 or so ex CDG which is way to early and would expect at least another 2 or so flights after that with AF and 2 BE
MAN is their largest route to UK now I believe overtaking LHR

Ian

[STN Ramp Rat]

http://atwonline.com/international-aviation-regulation/news/finnair-settles-disputes-finncomm-agrees-invest-finncomm-comm?cid=nl_atw_dn

[TechProblem]

Re the MAN-CDG,

The 195 will operate MAN-CDG-MAN-MXP-MAN-CDG-MAN.
There will also be a mid day MAN-CDG-MAN on a Q400.

TP

[JC25]

Flybe have posted a pre-tax profit of £6.8m for the financial year ending 31 March 2010 (down from £12.8m last year) and a pre-tax profit, after exceptionals/integration and restructuring of £5.7m (up from £0.1m last year).

Flybe also claim to be one of only three major European airlines to post profits throughout the recession.

Flybe's debt was also halved (down to £21m) during the financial year.

Not bad results considering the economic conditions!

[JonnyBfs]

Some of the popular sun routes have been released up to end of June 2011, do we know when other routes are going to be released eg Domestics.
When do BE usually load up "peak summer" July and August flights?

[james170969]

Does anyone know if Flybe will be returning to Prestwick next year?

[GCILover]

The full schedule always used to be released 4 full months before it started so all of next summers should be released by end of november.

However, they do seem to do things differently these days and stagger it over a longer period

[OltonPete]

ABZ

I am surprised they haven't taken advantage of some publicity
with rescue fares on BHX - ABZ now that BMIR are pulling off
on 29/10/10.

I also would have thought they might try and squeeze in a third
service on Monday and Friday as two only this winter, which is slim
pickings.

CDG

They are still showing the 195 operating the Air France departures
at 09.20 and 15.10 from BHX. A tad confusing for the pax especially
if they turn up at the wrong terminal.

Pete

[second coming]

Delays throughout the day at Southampton today. Anyone know why? Seems to be becoming more common.

[pug]

Anyone 'in the know' heard anything/care to speculate if FlyBE are to return to HUY next summer following the success of their trial route to AGP this year? It had load factors of 90% at the lowest every month and would be a shame if they could not return or even expand a bit more, though i am aware that a base for an EMB serving 'sunshine' routes could be problematic.

[RooCat]

Just seen an article on mail online that says Flybe are in talks to takeover 2 continental-European Airlines but Monsieur French declined to name or even hint. Anybody know more??
Also, It was very foggy down in Southampton for the first few hours of the day so that explains some delays but the fog cleared after 10.30/11am .Could be a feeble excuse but I don`t really know what else it could have been

[big d1]

Lots of tech Q400's today and not quick fixes. 2 of the tech aircraft are SOU based and were out of action all afternoon.

[second coming]

Thanks Roo and Big, would certainly explain it.

[ara01jbb]

Have a look in the CityJet forum RooJet... :ok:

[second coming]

Guess the 175's would be good replacements for the Avros.

[second coming]

Anyone else think the 175's were ordered with the purchase of cityjet in mind? Have always thought it was a strange order, seeing as the q400's have served flybe so well and they always go on about being green. LCY is probably the only airport left in the UK that they would want a foot hold in and the 175 is not only the perfect plane for that airport but also to replace cityjets fleet. I personally think if flybe use the 175's to replace the Q400's they will lose their edge.

[Serenity]

Cityjet is very different from the Flybe model, and unless major changes were made to one or other company I doubt they could be merged.

I guess the Air France connection is causing this speculation.

City do tours, Flybe claim to get you home every night.

City get much larger salaries and better expenses, hotels and perks than Flybe.

Which one would change most, up or down in quality for crews?????

[JC25]

The E175's aren't necessarily a replacement for the Q400 fleet and management have stated that Q400 will remain for the foreseeable future. It's more likely that they will be used to expand onto routes that are too long for the Q400 and too thin for the E195. Obviously that doesn't mean that some Q400's won't be replaced with the E175 depending on the needs of the airline at the time.

The initial firm order of 35 E175's could, if there is no scope for growth as planned, join the fleet as Q400 replacements rather than growth aircraft.

There are plans to open bases on mainland Europe, which may involve acquiring other airlines such as Cityjet and/or working more closely with AF, but that is just pure speculation at the moment I guess.

[clareview]

Flybe did have a foothold at LCY -started in a blaze of glory with routes to Scotland etc. Soone faded away with some routes transferring to Scot for a while. Why would they go back?

[macuser]

From memory, the Q400s were never equipped to go into LCY, as opposed to the smaller Dash 8s in the earlier fleet.

[Skipness One Echo]

Flybe have never flown from LCY. Their predecessor, the full service and loss making regional carrier Jersey European Airways did.

The current flybe business model isn't a great match for LCY so taking on Cityjet would entail running two carriers with two different business models. Then throw in ScotAirways and VLM into the mix and you have four ingredients. We could make it five if you took the previous post about folding KLM Cityhopper in there as well.

[second coming]

The company use to operate but with DC8-200's from memory. Think it has been proven that anythin bellow a 50 seater can not make money at LCY. I am pretty sure we will see the 175's at LCY, to much of a coincidence that BA already operate them and have shown flybe that they are viable. Plus cityjet kind of sticks out like a sore thum in AF's stable as it is a regional that is based in Ireland. I think its very possible that flybe will take over.

[Tonyq]

Jim French has said that they are looking at carriers which are 'digestible, rather than transformational' and a 'bridgehead into Europe'

Flybe Pursuing Two Purchases as It Seeks to Build European Bases, CEO Says - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-20/flybe-says-its-pursuing-two-purchases-as-it-seeks-to-build-european-bases.html)

Cityjet would be very challenging to 'digest' for the reasons already mentioned here, and others, and would be mainly a further chunk of UK and Irish market share rather than a bridgehead to anywhere.

I don't think it could be sensibly considered to meet either of Jim French's criteria.

[Skipness One Echo]

Think it has been proven that anythin bellow a 50 seater can not make money at LCY

The CityJet Do328s are still common on some of the Dundee and other routes but I agree it's getting harder to make smaller aircraft pay out of LCY.

[RooCat]

While a lot of people are guessing which airlines Flybe hope to be taking over, could it work if they took over Eurowings which would not only work into some of Flybe's bases but would also give them a foot in the door of Germany.
Would any of these airlines work as a takeover target of Flybe?:
Finncomm-Finland despite Finnair taking 20% and dropping alleged agreement with Flybe
Luxair-Regional connections into Luxembourg could work and Luxair operate the Q400
Tyrolean-despite being owned by Austrian, could this work as they operate similiar-sized aircraft.Would be good as base to connect from their current bases in the UK to the central-european and eastern-european markets
Carpatair-again similiar-size aircraft despite carpatair operating Saab 2000's.Would open up Central and Southern European markets
Cimber Sterling-has been mentioned and seems a very logical and sensible target!!would be beneficial for many reasons, including openings for the Northern Markets, which could eventually come back and bite Finnair on the arse!!
FlyBaboo-Same Aircraft,Hubs and Valued-Slots in Switzerland,and would be a good supplement to the current network.
Others that could work: Adria Airways
KlM Cityhopper
Britair
Regional
Darwin Airlines
Blue 1
et finallement City Airline Sweden

open to debate!but probably none of these airlines will actually be said targets!!

peace to all

[second coming]

I am fairly confident none of those will be chosen. Either because they will not be sold by their owners or if anything they fit flybe's model less then cityjet. I reckon cityjet will be one, and the other will be either in Scandinavia or Eastern Europe. Think flybe have long wanted to get in to scandinavia but havn't for what ever reason. Plus Eastern Europe looks like a grow area to me.

[WHBM]

I am pretty sure we will see the 175's at LCY, too much of a coincidence that BA already operate them and have shown flybe that they are viable.
Unlikely to see E175s at LCY as they are not one of the authorised types there, and the granting of this type approval seems to take a year or more. The E170 and E190 (which BA has) both now have approval of course, but the (more different than you may initially think) E175 and E195, the two FlyBe types, do not, and I don't believe Embraer has developed a steep approach kit for these other two variants.

London City Airport Consultative Committee - Aircraft (http://www.lcacc.org/aircraft/index.html#e170)

[RooCat]

Second Coming, thank you for your response !I was just seeing what peoples opinions are on those airlines positions and to see if we can get anything more factual, even it is "the man walking the dog was out again today" or "a little birdie told me" or even "a source close to the whatever said".

However, do you have any ideas or thoughts as to what could happen in the future regarding expansion S.C?

[Maverick8701]

I'm pretty confident 1 of the airlines is definatley on that list!! Possibly both if the whispers im hearing are correct although not confident on the 2nd. Would also say that it may not stop at 2 watch this space over the next 18 months!!!

[egnxema]

Could one be BMI Regional?

But thinking of Cityjet, the emraers and q400 make ideal replacements for the RJs and F50s, so cityjet is very digestable and the routes from LCY give plenty of bridges in to Europe - especially netherlands, belgium anf luxembourg.

[second coming]

Well its defininetly exciting times. In regards to being rated at LCY i'm sure any aircraft that can and needs to be rated will be. Might even be a condition of the order that Embrear get it rated. Is this not what they did with BA's 170's?

Some good options there roo cat, just can't see SAS or Lufthansa selling their associated carriers as its just allowing competition in. To be honest if they were to merge with Air Berlin they could become a serious force. :suspect:

[RooCat]

Yes Second Coming!We agree!!it will be very interesting and if what has also been mentioned on this forum tonight by WHBM we could be seeing a whole lot of additions coming soon!Watch this space!:ooh:

[airferries]

I just can't see FlyBe and Cityjet ever merging. LCY is a too expensive airport for FlyBe's buisiness model. FlyBe, albeit under a different name has tried LCY before and it just didn't work. FlyBe ha moved 'downmarket' since so why would it work today? If FlyBe did buy Cityjet, it would be a huge financial undertaking for FlyBe to replace all of the aircraft. I feel the FlyBe service would not go down well with the current clientele. If such a merger did go ahead, I see BA Cityflyer to see an upturn in buisiness.I would not be suprised to see a closer relationship between FlyBe and Cityjet, especially due to the new AF codeshares. Stranger things have happened in the world of aviation, so only time will tell.....

[WHBM]

Well its definintely exciting times. In regards to being rated at LCY I'm sure any aircraft that can and needs to be rated will be.Not quite as easy as that.

Might even be a condition of the order that Embrear get it rated. Is this not what they did with BA's 170's?.
No, Embraer worked for some years before the BA order on getting LCY approval for the E170 and E190. Both Lufthansa and FlyBaboo used Embraer 190s into LCY before BA started their operations.

[second coming]

Well either way it would make sense for embraer to have the 175 rated as well. If the 190 can get in then surely there will be no problems.

[uncovered]

October's edition of Airline Business has a ranking of regional airlines globally. Flybe in top 10 on revenue Globally, all other airlines in list above Flybe are North American feeder carriers who employ contract flying business models. So Flybe now largest regional carrier in world with a stand-alone business model.

Flybe is now No1 in Europe of any type of Regional carrier (Pax and Rev). Not bad for for grass skirt wearing cider drinkers!!!

[Skipness One Echo]

All this talk of flybe getting a foot in the door in Europe by buying a foreign airline is getting people giddy. Let's calm down a moment and look at some of the past attempts and learn from them.

BA buying (any old:))TAT to get a foothold in France, going to be the next big thing and grow the business. Lost millions.
BA buying Delta Air to get a foothold in Germany after the end of the IGS services from Berlin, making it into Deutsche BA. Lost millions and what was left was sold.
easyJet buying TEA Basle intending to get a foothold in the Swiss market. Stelio is on record as saying it was a bad move and would have made much more sense in just setting up a new airlines and starting from scratch.

This is the key. There is nothing stopping flybe operating as Ryanair do, opening bases right across Europe. Quite why this needs to involve buying out a company with a different culture, business model and then get involved in merging seniority lists I do not know. Cross border airline sales can work but the best examples so far have kept their own identity and have have similar businss models and alliances. Think Air France / KLM, Lufthansa / Austrian / bmi / Swiss and now BA / Iberia.

I think Skippy's patented Airliners.net Magical Dartboard of Acquisition and Route Planning has arrived on pprune! Woe I Say! ( Whoa surely! Ed )

[BFS101]

more sense in just setting up a new airlines and starting from scratch.However if you buy an established carrier, hopefully your buying with it their customer base. Unless you really pee them off, they'll stay with the new carrier. Passengers logging onto the previous airlines website and being transferred to FlyBE's, using established booking methods, still cashing in on the brand awareness of the bought airline etc.

Is the FlyBE brand known enough across Europe to open new bases, and not have to spend an absolute fortune on advertising?? And then have to potentially complete on routes with the carrier established...

[second coming]

Yeah but BA had a typical airline model where as flybe has a unique one which can exploit niches. None of the of the other low cost operators can compete with their larger aircraft. Personally I think the should amass a few hundred Q400's and fly them all around Europe as you can not beat this aircraft on regional routes.

[Skipness One Echo]

Passengers logging onto the previous airlines website and being transferred to FlyBE's, using established booking methods, still cashing in on the brand awareness of the bought airline etc.

When I book Loganair these days using the flybe website I long for the simplicity and transparency of the BA website. The fares are not all that different but the amount of pointing and clicking complexity to get to my desired result competes with Ryanair. One thing is for sure, if flybe bought CityJet and rebranded with the flybe business model, BA CityFlyer would be the clear winner.

This is counter-intuitive if you think of BA Connect in the regions but London City is a different ball game entirely.

Personally I think the should amass a few hundred Q400's and fly them all around Europe as you can not beat this aircraft on regional routes.

Odd that Jim French is plumping for Embraer jets then?

[second coming]

Good point echo, guess LCY passengers would want a simple model but it works with the business passengers flybe already has.

Yeah, thats why I think its such a strange order. Its going against everything they have built their airline on and what has made them the success they are today. The only reason flybe have managed to grow so fast is the q400, to choose another aircraft with jet engines must mean a hidden motive.

[Calmcavok]

Back to airliners.net please.

Folks in Flybe have no clue as to what the master plan is with the European plan, suffice to say that it has been talked about for several years. The headache & heartache that the merging of seniority lists & T&Cs caused by Flybe's acquisition of BaCon still persists to an extent within the company. To have to endure that one or two more times would be hell.

However, the board at Flybe are doing a good job on growing the airline, and for those who have examined the recent financial results the directors also seem to be doing their very best to position themselves for the biggest windfall they can justify if/when the company floats. The small matter of a disgruntled and underpaid workforce won't bother them too much as long as aviation continues to flatline.

Expect the unexpected, but I imagine whatever happens in Europe, it won't be part of mainline Flybe. I also wouldn't bet against a decent percentage of the E-175s coming to the UK to improve the dispatch reliability of the company.

[Wycombe]

For me the 175 purchase (at least the initial 35) could be justified purely to facilitate organic expansion, and to replace the Dash on some "prestige" routes:

- the example of the latter they have already trumpetted is LGW-GCI, which we are told will get the first 175. I expect there are others that fall into this category (operated from the main bases)

- the Q400 would continue to be utilised on many existing routes where there is no benefit in deploying a pure jet, with a few more seats (ie, many short UK domestic routes), and will be used to expand the route network and frequencies as demand picks up.

- the 175 could then be used on many routes, where we know the Dash can do the job (and does today, eg, SOU-VRN, the IOM-PMI charter), but where a jet would be preferable. Also to expand the network with new routes that also better suit a jet (because of distance and also because they should achieve the necessary yields) from bases like SOU - the publicity that came out around the 175 purchase suggested that this is one of the ways the new a/c would be used.

[second coming]

I hope so wycombe. Southampton may be thier biggest base but still feel there are many routes left to exploit. Barcelona, One to Italy, Scandinavia and poland would be a good start. Think they will do well on the longer thinner routes but domestic flights should stick to the q400.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

No ones denying Rutter is one hell of a tough :mad: and he's done a real ace job but let's all be honest here. The reason for scaling back commitment to the Q400 is the :mad: thing keeps going tech:suspect:

[second coming]

Good point Jetstream. Still think it would be better to keep a few extras lying around. Why not keep the old SAS ones as back ups, doubt there going to be many takers for them so could still be cost effective to have them as back up.

[Cloud1]

The Q400's might appear to be tech a lot of the time but thats only because there are 70 odd in the fleet and therefore it is more apparent. The reason that the E175 is coming in is because its more bums on seats at the same cost of a Q400 and the public perception is that a jet is a nicer aircraft to fly in than a prop. End of :)

[Burpbot]

Second Coming, I think you will find Southampton is actually not the biggert base! At the moment its the third largest but Belfast is soon to pip it to the bronze medal of bases.:E

[CabinCrewe]

"the E175 is coming in is because its more bums on seats at the same cost of a Q400"
You have the figures...?

[Cloud1]

No but read the various articles quoting JF and you will find it there....

[Calmcavok]

The only reason E-Jets will replace Q400s is reliability. They will also appear on higher yielding routes first, eg bhx-str, sou-cdg, don't expect Southampton-Poland to appear, as the yield will be low, no matter what the load. On that note, don't expect lcy to appear, as flybe could not justify the fares required to operate from there, unless every flight was a codeshare.

[EISNN]

I'm just gonna throw this out there and see what you all think but would a merger between Flybe and Aer Lingus make any sense? Is it worth a discussion?

[second coming]

Depends how you measure it Burpbot. All I know it has been frequently referred to as their biggest base by not only numerous media but themselves.

I would be surprised if any jet can operate lower costs than the q400. I stand to be corrected though with figures.

[tunawholesalers]

The 175s were ordered to make the airline appear more credible in the eyes of the pax against the other LCCs - Mr Strongs own words.

[Coffin Corner]

Cloud1

The Q400 appears tech alot of the time for one reason, and one reason alone, because it is. Speak to any engineer and they will tell you they barely touch the 195, but the Dash is a different beast. In recent weeks I'm sure the majority of pilots have had disruptions due to tech Dash 8s.

CC

p.s. There's 56 Dash's in the fleet ;)

[Cloud1]

Sorry yes think I included the jets in that by mistake

What you need to remember is the Q400s operate more sectors each day, thus many more landings and takeoffs. With 56 of them in the fleet you will get more tech issues....it would be like chucking in a couple of A320s in to Ryanairs fleet and then slagging off the B738 for being tech.

Anyway this is all sidetracking, the facts are the E175s are coming in for one reason only - economics. Even if Flybe wanted jets to fit in more with other LCCs they wouldnt if it meant a higher cost attached to it. You all know what Flybe are like......keep costs low.

With regards to expansion, JF has already confirmed he is looking at two acquisitions. I therefore see no reason why a start up is more likely when the words acquisition of two other airlines has already been mentioned. As far as I am concerned it has to be a French carrier but not CityJet (maybe Arlinair, Regional ?) and another one a little further a field in a country that BE may not already serve. What that is though I do not know....maybe Wideroe opened their eyes to something during the recent wetlease agreement?

[GLIDERMAN]

Anyone know what aircraft type is used on the Gatwick Jersey route?

[planenut321]

It alternates between DH8 and the EMB195. Use the connections timetable on Flybe to see which model is being used when :)

[Burpbot]

Second Coming, ~Measured by based fleet, crew numbers, and pax numbers SOU is currently third largest base.

[second coming]

Really? Wouldn't be surprised if Belfast has overtaken seing as they seem to operate to every airstrip in the Uk no matter how run down it is. Still looks like Southampton has the most routes though, plus from memory the CAA stats show it carries the most passengers on numerous domestic routes out of any other airport outside London. Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Jersey etc. Maybe Gatwick is carrying more since the took over more BA routes.

[danielmellor]

Belfast may take over Southampton for Number 3 with The new routes to Liverpool,Bristol and East Midlands taken over from FR

Now all we need is BHD - CDG (Direct),AMS, BCN etc.. ;)

[second coming]

So which two bases are larger than Sou and by what are we measuring?

[GrahamK]

Birmingham and Manchester perhaps?

[second coming]

By what Means? Am sure Southampton has more routes than those two and carry more on the key domestic routes. I guess all the routes they took over from BA at Gatwick could have swung things.

[darren1]

What sort of expansion could we see at SOU? BCN, MUC, CPH? It's mainly French and Spanish sun spots presently, with a very welcome few Croatian airports. Can't say the German schedule is great timewise though.

[second coming]

Barcelona is long overdue, plus a route to Scandinavia would make sense with the oil links. Your right about the German schedule but the figures are pretty impressive still. Munich would make a good addition if not Berlin.

[Burpbot]

Second coming, BHX MAN SOU, but from end of OCT BHD will have the third largest fleet. But with a dose of 175 SOU may climb the ranks again soon.

[second coming]

Thanks Burpbot. I guess those are bigger cities with better catchments so guess it was inevitable.

[RB311]

I have to say that this debate as to who has the biggest base has got me riveted....:bored:

[Vapor]

I really can't see what's in it for FlyBe to aquire some of the operators rumoured on this thread.
Surely they could just open a base or two of their own in whatever European Country they choose. They can just expand with their own fleet.

Why would they pay €€ for the likes of Airlinair or Baboo and spend the next couple of years trying to sort the place out.

[Cloud1]

Possibly because they have said they are looking at two acquisitions - that is why we think they will take on another carrier. If they were to use their own fleet they would not use this term in a press release....

[ajamieson]

Cloud1, if you read Vapor's question it was not whether Flybe would do this, but why.

It does seem odd to spend a lot of money just to eliminate some competition, particularly in continental Europe where in some areas the market is arguably less competitive to start with.

[JobsaGoodun]

Acquiring something doesn't necessary mean money changing hands from Flybe to another owner. It could happen the other way around as in BA Connect, or as per Eastern and Air Southwest.

Acquiring another airline may well be preferable. No route set up costs and a solid base from which to grow the Flybe name. Look at Connect, non profitable routes became profitable under Flybe. They are clearly confident that their business model works, and why wouldn't they, it's delivered profits throughout the recession so the routes of other loss making airlines may turn these routes profitable if the Flybe business model is adopted.

Seems to make solid sense from the Flybe point of view and you can bet there are a few loss making carriers that might be attractive.

[EI-BUD]

Just a random suggestions as to possible airlines that Flybe could be looking at especially if it is a vehicle into Europe.

I think I picked up from previous comments both on here and in the media that Flybe had interests in developing in France and in mainland Europe.

So Cityjet as suggested high on the list.

Is BA going to have a long term interest in London City (excluding Long Haul service) with so much focus going to be on Iberia and BA combination. So if Flybe got bot Cityflyer it would have LCY wrapped up. Cityjet are said to have been losing money in recent years as the business travel market tightens up. So is BA Cityflyer any different or is this information available specifically?

Air Nostrum, would the link with Iberia bring an opening to know more about the Spanish regional operator? Is its flying similar to Flybe, niche travel on regional routes. Air Nostrum are witnessing Ryanair becoming very active on alot of domestic routes as well as the Ryanair return of a base at Valencia, I have a feeling that this may be a challenge for Air Nostrum.


In terms of the UK I can only see Bmi Regional and Loganair being the only likely candidates, has anyone considered Loganair?

Apart from that I think that KLM Cityhopper and Brit Air could be potentials. Outside of the above I cant see where else they would be looking.

EI-BUD

[Skipness One Echo]

Just a random suggestions as to possible airlines
I agree, very random.

Is BA going to have a long term interest in London City (excluding Long Haul service) with so much focus going to be on Iberia and BA combination. So if Flybe got bot Cityflyer it would have LCY wrapped up. Cityjet are said to have been losing money in recent years as the business travel market tightens up. So is BA Cityflyer any different or is this information available specifically?
British Airways only fly two flights a day from LCY. Their focus is entirely on long haul. Most BA flights from LCY are operated by a subsidiary firm called BA CityFlyer with a bespoke business model tailored specifically for the LCY market. They have recently rolled over and replaced their entire fleet with new Embraer jets, a not entirely cheap capital investment.....
As stated before, flybe does not have a good fit on it's busines model for LCY, it differs from both BA and AF by CityJet. I would remind you that flybe also had a large loss making operation from it's Jersey European days at LCY.

has anyone considered Loganair?
Er yes....Loganair already fly as flybe under franchise. The very specific Scottish Highlands and Islands market is operated by people who know the region well and this is why Loganair have survived so long. Any takeover would lose that as Manx found out when they took over the company for a period in 1994.

[ib26uk]

I think Skipness what EI-BUD was thinking regarding Loganair was instead of having them as a franchise partner - Why not buy them out right...

[Skipness One Echo]

Why not buy them out right...

I was trying to address that. It often goes wrong.

e.g. Manx taking operational control of Loganair lost the local focus that the whole company was about. It's easy to descend into management speak cliches about cost savings and synergies (I do detest that cliche) but quite often the new owner discovers lots of things he hadn't planned for.

When BA took control of British Regional a lot of the routes went from profit to loss overnight due to different revenue sharing and accounting methods! This was I believe why the entire Jetstream 41 fleet had to go raher sharpish.

Then you have to merge the seniority lists etc etc. There's a rather good reason BA said no thanks to buying out GB Airways even though it was flying for...BA. At the moment the risk on the marginal routes sits with the private firm who know what they are doing in that market. Any acquisition would begin the management merry go round of bungee-bosses.

YouTube - Dilbert Animation: Office Hallucination and Bungee Boss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuDvSKFnTz0)

I'm not suggesting don't take risks as taking on BA Connect was a master stroke, but it was their home market and a workforce that could see that BA saw no way to turn a profit in the market. Quite different kettle of fish with CityJet and Loganair.

[second coming]

Well Vapor carries on with my argument. The list mentioned was I can only assume sky blue thinking. I can't see flybe buying the likes of flybaboo because they could set up their own base for less and its not like airlines of that size have many routes or a long enough following to prove too hard a competitor. As per the likes of Britair or Nostrum I can't see any legacy carrier selling their regionals as it is inviting competition into their backyard and they just don't need to sell. Yes I know BA did it, but lets be honest they have a history of showing disintrest in regional operations.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

FlyBe has announced new scheduled services MAN-ABZ (18 x Weekly) and MAN-NTE (4 x Weekly). Services commence in early December on the Q400. Good news.

SHED.

[Coffin Corner]

Where is NTE?

[0523 cov man]

flybe may be doing services from coventry cvt any one know more.
0523 covman

[jubilee]

Where is NTE= Nantes.
Jubilee

[Coffin Corner]

:ok: Thanks Jubilee

[ib26uk]

Services FROM Coventry? Domestic routes? International routes?

[Cloud1]

Many thanks for your reply Ajamieson - i read it as if the poster was questioning 'our' discussions over airlines being bought by Flybe. I guess you read it differently to me....

[Burpbot]

ib26uk, Cant see Cov as been likely as we dont even use it as an alternate due to unreliable fire cover. But who knows I heard BHX app hand someone to CVT radar the other day was nice to see the old place clawing back to life.

[flying officer kite]

Found out today which 2 airlines it will be, and all im saying is that i dont think anyone has mentioned one of them on here :P

[second coming]

Is one of them in eastern Europe flying officer?

[Facelookbovvered]

bmir? .… maybe?

[flying officer kite]

Not Eastern Europe, but providing this deal goes through, and Flybe keep all the routes this airline currently does, the most Eastern route will be to Larnaca (according to their website)..thats all im saying :P

[Vapor]

Is it Aegean?

[RooCat]

its blue air look at their route map!!Or possibly Air Moldova!But I think its the 1st option

[redED]

Yesterday, 21:59 * #1196 (permalink)
flying officer kite
*
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the flightdeck
Posts: 48
Found out today which 2 airlines it will be, and all im saying is that i dont think anyone has mentioned one of them on here :P
*


Of course you did, was it the milkman's daughter's boyfriend's uncle's drinking buddy at the pub who told you?

[Vapor]

Just looked at Baboo's website and it shows Larnaca on the routemap so maybe he is talking about them.

[second coming]

Transavia is worth a shout. Both them and Cityjet are members of the AF/KLM group and are non-core assets. Would certainly follow on from the codeshare agreement.

[flying officer kite]

redED, actually it was straight from the horse's mouth in Flybe that i was told :) Air Moldova made me smile though, its a bit out of reach with the Flybe network surely ;P

[tallaonehotel]

Carpatair :) ?

[mrmagooo]

Straight from the horses mouth at Flybe?

So that will be at director level then presumebly or reletively close to that and so that would make you a close or trusted friend of a person in such a position, who would be posting about an incredibly guarded secret on here at 1 am?? There is almost no doubt that the powers that be see this site and if you had such good info you wouldnt be commententing on here about having it as your source would dry up....

[Piece of Cake]

Baboo would make sense, they get an airline already operating E-jets and Q400s, an AOC outside the UK to put all their shiney new E175s on.... plus Baboo are already quite chummy with AF.

(EasyJet bought a Swiss company (TEA) and EasyJet Switzerland doesn't seem to be doing too badly.)

[Skipness One Echo]

(EasyJet bought a Swiss company (TEA) and EasyJet Switzerland doesn't seem to be doing too badly.)

It's a matter of public record that this was a seen later as a bad move. It would have been demonstrably better to start easyJet Switzerland as a new company from day one without trying to re-mould the existing culture into the Orange brand.

Still best not to learn from history. Let's throw some more random darts and let more people worry about their jobs. This thread has gone into fantasy land now.

[flying officer kite]

mrmagooo, not even close :)

On another matter, and out of curiosity, what is the range or endurance of an E195 with full load?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

I have this afternoon received an e.mail promoting FlyBe's Winter programme from MAN. Whilst 14 routes are listed including the new ABZ and NTE services, there are some notable absentees aside from the usual seasonal routes. I have noted that EXT, MSE and NWI were omitted from the list. Can anybody confirm the status of these services? Are they dropped or going seasonal, or are they just missed out of the promotion because they don't have a Sunday service (the promotion is pushing weekend breaks)? Thanks in advance for any insights provided.

SHED.

[redED]

SHED

They're probably happy with the performance on those routes, note no Belfast either.

[second coming]

Baboo looks like a classy airline but they only have 5 aircraft for goodness sake. Can't see why anyone would purchase a company that is so small fry.

Cityjet would make sense as they have a route network that doesn't clash with flybe's and flybe have history and maintenance in place for the avro's. Plus the 175's are perfect replacements.

Transavia is my outside shot, they have a similar business model like flybe's i.e. low cost but still with some perks. My friend from the US was recently singing their praises, however would AF/KLM need to sell part of their company that is performing.

[Tonyq]

s.c. - you would do well to go back to the words Jim French has used to describe the targets they are looking at - 'digestible' and 'bridgehead'.

A bridgehead is any position gained that can be used as a foothold for further advancement. Baboo fits that bill perfectly. A small continental beginning, from which they can build, plus the tiny fleet is wholly compatible and digestible into the existing fleet.

Cityjet is a different animal altogether - a different business model, nearly as many aircraft as Flybe, mostly fairly ancient and incompatible and a route network which is UK and Ireland focused and not a bridgehead to Europe. It would absorb a lot of the planned 175 deliveries to renew the fleet and a massive amount of management time, which could even destabilise the core business.

I have no connection to BE, or any other airline, other than as a very regular pax, and I would bet you all my FlyBe points that you are barking up totally the wrong tree here promoting the Cityjet theory.

BTW, congratulations on the astronomical post rate - have you nothing better to do. :=

[second coming]

Well they do operate many routes in Europe on behalf of AF, which will fit in nicely with the new code shares flybe have just taken on. Plus flybe's business model is fine by business men judging by the routes they operate. Plus i'm sure they would rather have a foothold in Paris or Amsterdam. Of course this is all just my opinion :hmm:.

[Expressflight]

I didn't want to get involved in this rather ridiculous speculation as to who the target airlines might be, but I had a meeting which involved a former VLM director on Tuesday.
He had met with a very senior CityJet executive last week on another matter and was told that the Flybe rumour was rubbish.

[Cyrano]

Baboo looks like a classy airline but they only have 5 aircraft for goodness sake. Can't see why anyone would purchase a company that is so small fry.

Two words: "Swiss AOC." Hell, five words: "Swiss AOC, established Geneva market."

[Skipness One Echo]

flybe have history and maintenance in place for the avro's.

Flybe have never flown the Avro RJ70/85 /100. Looks like a BAe146 but is quite a different aircraft at the pointy end.

Plus flybe's business model is fine by business men judging by the routes they operate.

I'll say it just one more time. CityJet is focussed at LCY serving Canary Wharf and the city. There is a good reason why there is no loco presence at LCY and why the flybe business model wouldn't be a good fit for this lucrative market. Indeed introducing such a model without a MASSIVE price benefit would drive custom towards BA CityFlyer. You don't even understand your own point! The routes they operate have the business model tailored for the people that use them. This is also the case at LCY. However the business model that is used here is far from the flybe model so they would be operating one company with two differing business models. That's not "digestible" mate, really it's not.


Two words: "Swiss AOC." Hell, five words: "Swiss AOC, established Geneva market."

Now this is interesting I grant you but I wonder with Switzerland not being in the EU whether it's really what they're after. Time will tell.

[PleasureFlyer]

Please, not Baboo, PLEASE. They are a great little airline with fantastic onboard service and product, decent fares, great crew. Please look for something else to take over. :{

[ajamieson]

Plus flybe's business model is fine by business men judging by the routes they operate.
Do not confuse this with enthusiasm for Flybe's business "model". Having lots of business travellers is largely because the alternative travel options are even less appealing than Flybe. Also note that not all business travellers are men.

[second coming]

Well true but i'm sure they do maintenance for Avro's down in Exeter. I can see that LCY might be a step too far for Flybe but then their fairs are not exactly cheap and fluctuate from airport to airport. Guess we will have to wait and see on that one.

[Maverick8701]

I too know both airlines they are quite openly discussed now (within the company would suggest one for the private forum still though)....however no deals done yet! 1 has def been mentioned on here not sure on the other. Deals far from done understand they are just looking at the books at this stage.

CityJet - 100% no chance!!!!

Also CityJet stops the LCY question although don't Baboo and a couple others of the potentials go to LCY?

[EGTE]

Flybe do indeed maintain Avro RJs alongside the BAE146 at Exeter. Also several varieties of Embraer, CRJ, Dash 8 and ATR - not just the types they operate themselves.

[second coming]

Thanks for confirming EGTE. Its great to debate who are the 2 airlines but as with anything its just speculation. It sounds like one at least is going to be a surprise :).

[virginblue]

Nice speculating, but in all earnest, why would AF or KL be interested in selling wholly owned airlines like Brit Air, Cityjet, Regional or KLM cityhopper to Flybe? AF/KL need those airlines and has systematically added them to their portfolio in order to control them 100 per cent.

The only French/Durch airline mentioned that could be sold by private owners is Airlinair, although AF has a minority stake in it through Brit Air - and I would not be surprised if the contract provides for some take-over clauses in the event of sale.

As for other airlines mentioned, Wideroe is 100% owned by SAS - again, why should they sell?

[second coming]

Exactly virginblue. Regionals can be of huge benefit despite what BA think. I think they would sell cityjet at the right price but the majority think the business model is wrong for flybe. France seems to be a black hole when it comes to competion in the regions. Very much doubt AF will let that change.

[JobsaGoodun]

I can't help but think that 'wholly owned subsidiaries' , once the darlings of the mainline carriers about ten years ago, are no longer what they once were. They were efficient and streamlined with low costs thanks to their independence. These attractive regional airlines were bought up and re-equipped by their new owners with very expensive short haul jets like CRJ's and E145's. They were obliged to follow the policies of their mainline owner which brought additional costs to the business. This wouldn't have been a problem if it were not for the low cost carriers coming into the regional game, squeezing the once hefty margins on these regional tickets. Slowly but surely, these once very efficient profitable carriers were loaded with costs associated with mainline carriers and in BA's case with Connect, became an expensive 'millstone' around the neck of the flag carriers.

For those airlines that come under he umbrella of the big three in Europe (BA/IB, AF/KLM and LH), I can understand the attraction of the majors who seek to remove what has become a major cost, but aim to retain an element of the connecting traffic.

The move by Flybe and AF is certainly testing the water and if successful then I can see the likes of LH and IB looking at how an airline like Flybe might also help them to rationalise their costs. I'm sure Flybe will be looking to assist in whatever way they can:E

[JetStarCH]

One of the two airlines Flybe is considering is actually Baboo. This not a rumor. I know it from Baboo top management. Baboo is in a very difficult financial situation. M1 Travel - that owns over 80% of the shares - is fed up of loosing money and wants to sell it to get out of this mess.

Baboo leases 2 DH4 and 3 E190. The CEO has introduced a fleet and staff reduction program. The winter fleet is going to be reduced dramatically and it seems that they will only keep the DH4 (they have canceled a huge winter charter program with Kuoni, Club Med and Hotelplan to LPA, TFS, SSH, HRG).

I bet this is a 2 steps restructuring. 1) Baboo reduces its size, makes a DH4 only fleet, get rid of the E90, cancel bleeding routes. 2) Flybe takes them and does Marketing/Revenue Management/Call center/Crew planning/etc... from Exeter. If they keep the Swiss AOC they probably need a few guys to manage local HR and Accounting.

And 3) the base becomes profitable and Flybe adds progressively 1 or 2 DH4 to the GVA "base".:D

[egnxema]

This quote is from FlightGlobal and seem sto add weight to the Baboo comments:-

"Over in Switzerland, Embraer E-Jet operator Baboo is facing a similar challenge. Chief executive Mark Darby says the battle is finding small niche or hub-bypass routes that fall below the radar of larger carriers. "If routes have the mileage and potential to grow, they attract low-cost players which can operate the route more effectively than a small regional. The standalone business is challenging."

Darby believes the answer to this regional quandary is consolidation. "This is how regionals get closer to the unit costs of low-cost carriers. You can't do it with five or 10 aircraft. You need to find ways of growing quickly. Organic growth is slow and quite high risk. Bringing airlines together into one lump, providing that the integration is done well, is probably way to go." Baboo itself is exploring a range of consolidation opportunities in the short term. "There is pressure to find a better way of doing things than we do now," says Darby."

Interestingly, Baboo have a strong codeshare relationship with AF, as do BE. And Baboo operate the LCY GVA route sold by CityJet.


So what is the better the 2 airlines BE have their sights on are Baboo and CityJet?

[second coming]

Or both :suspect:.

[adfly]

The only issue I can see other than the different fleets is the certain differences in the business models of the three airlines, despite a few similarities (serving niche routes on ~80-100 seat aircraft.

[Nakata77]

Flybe will cease serving the MAN-BOH & MSE routes from the end of this month.

[Burpbot]

Or maybe a Flybe franchise? Allows Flybe expansion with minimal risk.

[Cloud1]

Both MSE routes are still being sold - where did you get your info from?

[fanrailuk]

Full Summer 2011 schedule on sale now...!

Flybe | Cheap flights & budget flights (http://www.flybe.com)

[canberra97]

I wonder if we will see any new routes announced for Southampton, my wish list would be Barcelona, Ibiza, Milan and Munich.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Well it certainly looks like the 2011 Opening of Cardiff as a base isn't going to materialise

[pamann]

MSE-MAN now bookable thru to September 2011. Someone's wires are crossed. :ok:

[pug]

I hear not all routes are rolled out as yet, not sure how true that is but there could be some changes over the next couple of months.

[RooCat]

Canberra97 , have you not seen the article on Southampton Airport in this month's Airliner? It kind of hints that Southampton will not see any expansion until September 2011 once the new E-jets have arrived. The routes mentioned included Copenhagen, Stuttgart, Helsinki, Milan and Stockholm. While they seem like a good idea on paper, I agree with you that Barcelona should be included, but I don't think Ibiza will be due to the Ryanair route only 30 miles down the road :(

[nef]

I hear not all routes are rolled out as yet, not sure how true that is but there could be some changes over the next couple of months.

Senior BE figures seemed to quite heavily trail a few upcoming new routes in the Scottish press a couple of weeks ago. INV-AMS was touted with an announcement "as soon as November", which would maybe suggest a Summer '11 start. They also talked about GLA being in an "expansion phase" with 2 or 3 Euro routes to come next year (CDG and Scandinavia were mentioned), although whether this could be in time for summer '11 or will have to wait for an E-jet I'm not sure.

I know the Embraers are due later next year, but have BE got extra Dash-8s coming into the fleet over the next year as well?

[Sark]

I hear new luggage charges are being introduced. 15 kilos is the new standard with 20 kilos being surcharged. Sneaky!

[choppercopper 99]

I understand we will take delivery of the last 4 Q400's around April 11.

[Haven't a clue]

I challenge anyone with a family to pack a bag under 15kg.

If true it would really be a self inflicted wound on any route competing with easyjet who per their website currently allow 20kg. Would then depend on how much their fee was against BE's excess.

After hiking baggage charges considerably over the past year (£8.99 to £10.99) BE will shortly charge more for the average bag than a person...

[GCI10]

Email from flybe yesterday regarding channel islands summer routes, it omitted GCI-MAN. Anyone know if it has been dropped? Thanks.

[Boeing 77W]

There is to be a new baggage policy introduced shortly...

There will be a choice of four allowances:

15kg
20kg
23kg
40kg

[Jamesair]

GCI - NCL isn't in the timetable either.....maybe GCI routes are not finalised yet.

[second coming]

All of those routes for Southampton will work very well indeed. Scandinavia is long overdue for Southampton, guess just needed the right equipment :ok:. Barcelona has always made sense but will have to see on that one. Milan would certainly be a welcome return too, plus Prague. Can't see Ibiza though, routes such as that will never work from Southampton unfortunately. To be honest I dont mind that sort of route being left to Bournemouth :}.

[darren1]

Could SOU to FCO, MUC and STR be money earners?
BE did once fly to PRG and IBZ, but only for a short time.

[canberra97]

Am aware of Ryanair down the road at Bournemoth having an Ibiza route but I would have thought that Flybe could have at least a weekly or twice weekly summer route to Ibiza, am also aware of them previously operating this route but I think it would be a welcome addition to there network ex Southampton.

Perhaps when Flybe had previously operated a Southampton to Ibiza route their network from Southampton was not as big as it is today so brand awareness was not as such back then, so I think Ibiza would work now.

With Ryanair not really being consistent with their Bounemouth operations I think Flybe should consider Ibiza, after all they operate a successfull Palma route from Southampton, a route that Ryanair fly's to from Bournemouth along with the charters as well!

A late night depature (22.45) on a Friday and Saturday from Southampton to Ibiza with the aircraft on the ground in Ibiza for a couple of hours untill a very early morning departure from Ibiza and a morning arrival at Southampton on the Saturday and Sunday mornings similar to how they operated it before, using an aircraft that would have otherwise been night stopping at Southampton.

Scandinavia destinations are very welcome along with Milan, etc but Barcelona should be there at the very top, I for one would use this route if made available, instead of having to fly from Heathrow and the expensive parking, can be from my home to Southampton Airport in approx 10 mins!

[GobonaStick]

Is this adding more weight to the rumour of Flybe taking over Flybaboo?


Why take it over when you've enough aircraft to set up your own operation?

[Serenity]

Why pay to take them over, without the 190s they only have a couple of q400's left.
Hardly a major strategic coup!!!!!

[Richard Taylor]

There is a small snippet in my local paper about the above this morning.

No quotes from anybody in the story though.

Can anyone confirm if this is the case & if it is direct or via another airport?

Air France via its Regional arm already serves CDG from ABZ & I wonder if Flybe intend serving ORY, if the story has credence?

Nothing in the Flybe website about this.

Thanks.

[GusHoneybun]

ABZ - CDG is part of the new codeshare between flybe and air france. The code share was announced months ago and is due to start tomorrow.
Good to see the P&J have their finger on the pulse!

[Chitty]

just been on to flybe's website and thay are going to be flying from the isle of man to brussels via southampton starting on the 27th of march on mon,tus,wed,thur,fri and sun. flybe flight BE 1845 will leve the isle of man at 09:45 and arrive in southampton at 10:55 and then arrive in brussels at 13:30 and it arrives back in the isle of man at 16:05 the hole flight will be an isle of man based aircraft

[LGS6753]

How long will it be before FlyBe announce Luton-Galway and Luton-Waterford, now that Aer Arann look like defecting to Southend?
A profitable pair of routes, which together with the Jersey and Isle of Man routes could give FlyBe a viable 2 or 3 aircraft base in Bedfordshire with lots more potential.

[wawkrk]

(I challenge anyone with a family to pack a bag under 15kg.)

Are the family not allowed to have bags then?

[adfly]

When going to Florida for 12 days earlier this year our family of four had two cases weighing in at 9 and 11 kg and we had everything that we needed in them!

[Boeing 77W]

Adfly....I'm always amazed at what people manage to fit in and thought I packed lightly, but that is pretty impressive!

The decision to offer four baggage tiers I believe is a good one. The number of passengers who have taken up the cheaper 15kg option is quite surprising and it's only been in force for a week. If passengers want to take more then they have the choice, obviously at a greater price. I don't necessarily agree with the prices Flybe use but I do agree with the principle.

[Wellington Bomber]

ADFLY

you must stink

[mizake the mizzen]

Had a Look on the Flybe website, the charges look odd at first glance

15Kilos= £9.99 per sector
20Kilos= £11.99 per sector
23Kilos= £22.99 per sector (3 kilos extras= £11!)
40Kilos= £41.99 per sector

These prices only available as pre booked baggage -You would pay more on the day at the airport!

Also noticed that on the LGW drop down menu they are showing flights LGW to Glasgow (via Belfast City); Edinburgh (via Belfast City)Paris (via Jersey) Stornoway (via Inverness) etc, all at through fares with a change of plane included..

[ara01jbb]

Also noticed that on the LGW drop down menu they are showing flights LGW to Glasgow (via Belfast City); Edinburgh (via Belfast City)Paris (via Jersey) Stornoway (via Inverness) etc, all at through fares with a change of plane included..

Ever since the new terminal at BHD was amused by the "Flight Connections" signs airside... now I know :D

[virginblue]

Had a Look on the Flybe website, the charges look odd at first glance

15Kilos= £9.99 per sector
20Kilos= £11.99 per sector
23Kilos= £22.99 per sector (3 kilos extras= £11!)
40Kilos= £41.99 per sector

These prices only available as pre booked baggage -You would pay more on the day at the airport!


With that type of pricing, I expect the issue of how correct scales at airports work become more prominent. Wasn't there a piece of "investigative journalism" a while ago that ofund out that at LGW a very impressive number of scales do not work properly - surprisingly (not...) always at the disadvantage of the passenger and at the advantage of the airline....

[Boeing 77W]

15Kilos= £9.99 per sector
20Kilos= £11.99 per sector
23Kilos= £22.99 per sector (3 kilos extras= £11!)
40Kilos= £41.99 per sector

Although I've previously mentioned that I don't necessarily agree with BE prices for luggage, £11 for 3kg is fairly good. At the airport that would cost £36! However the increase in price is fairly significant compared to that between 15kg and 20kg

[jerboy]

Just seen this on the local rag's website: Flybe changes its reward scheme Business This Is Jersey (http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/11/08/flybe-changes-its-reward-scheme/)

I'm not in the Island currently so can't see the full article. But I'm guessing the 'Most frequent flyer program around' has come back to bite them on the ar*e somewhat?

I'm not sure if the Rewards4all section on the BE website has been updated but it states you get 1 point per one way sector (2 for economy plus). When you get a total of 16 points you earn a free return UK trip... Very generous when you consider the frequency some people travel.

Anyone got any further information?

[Haven't a clue]

This from an email I received from FlyBe on Saturday. Loads of positive spin to a service reduction!


Over the past three years well over a million of our loyal passengers have signed up for Rewards4all, the UK’s most generous low cost Frequent Flyer scheme. In that time tens of thousands of passengers have redeemed points for flights as well as access to our 11 Executive Lounges across the UK.

We work hard to ensure all our members are able to benefit from the scheme. However, over the past few months we have become increasingly aware that the heavy demand for flight redemptions on what is actually just a small number of the routes Flybe operates is putting huge pressure on some of our most popular ’sea and sun’ routes such as those to Spain and Portugal. As our network evolves over the next few years this situation is unlikely to change.

We have also listened to your requests as frequent flyers to be advised of late availability for redemption bookings to make it even easier for you to enjoy the benefits of the programme.

So in keeping the scheme as simple to use as possible, we will be making the following changes to the scheme rules with effect from 31 March 2011:
No seats will be available for redemption on any flight to Spain, Portugal or Croatia. However, there remains limited availability over the upcoming winter period up to March 31st, 2011.
Seats will be available to all other Flybe destinations with almost three quarters of a million new seats now available for redemption flights from April. However, again due to high demand, availability during school holidays, around major sporting events and on routes we operate only at weekends, will still be extremely limited.
Redemption flights will be made available for booking approximately 1 month after the normal schedule is available for purchase on Flybe.com website.
To help you make the most of your well-earned points and maximise the opportunity to redeem your points to a destination of choice, we will be sending you a regular email newsletter that will give you the best tips and latest value for money offers.
The millions of seats available for redemption will still give you an extensive choice of highly attractive UK and European city break destinations to enjoy and we look forward to working with you to help you make the most of your points - and to welcoming you on board again soon!


At least they've been brave enough to tell us, rather than quietly just reduce redemption capacity to zero.

[Tonyq]

I received an e-mail from BE about these changes which come into effect from March 2011.

The only material change is that flights to Spain, Portugal and Croatia will no longer be offered under Rewards4All.

No changes to earning or redemption criteria, or other availability.

From my personal perspective, a non-event.

[lfc84]

never any availability anyway on flights to those destinations.

i emailed and asked them a few months ago when summer 11 was released and i asked them to demonstrate any availability because i could not find any.

to date there has been no reply.

rewards4all is not much value to me. since you pay the tax, for my routes is around £60, i find that if i can book far enough in advance i can beat that price with a revenue ticket.

[Tonyq]

I agree that it can be quite difficult to generate significant cash savings from redeeming these points, for the reasons you mention, and I too have chosen to pay cash, on occasion, rather than 'waste' the points. However, between IOM and LGW, for example, you can save up to £58 on a round trip for 16 points, once the higher cash fares have kicked in on the booking engine.

In my experience, the way to obtain the optimum value from 'Rewards 4 All' is to redeem 11 points per sector and book Economy Plus. That way, you get the cash saving difference the basic fare, plus a free bag each way, lounge access and inflight catering. That adds up to a possible benefit of around £90 on the example above. That makes each point worth c£4.

Obviously this only works if you need to take bags and have time to use the lounges.

Bearing in mind that it is a very simple scheme, once you have set it up, I consider it worthwhile and I do get some value from it, from time to time.

[lfc84]

Hi Tony - I agree with your comments. Econ plus is worthwhile. However, I seldom require such a ticket or redemption.

[Haven't a clue]

Tonyq You're absolutely right about Economy Plus redemptions being good value. I have taken 3 IOM/LGW redemption flights this year for trips involving onward long haul flights. The value to me is in the baggage allowance, which, as I usually take 2 bags, is worth £84 alone.

But please don't tell FlyBe. Lounge access became a popular redemption and last year they almost doubled the points required (both me and the missus didn't bother renewing our lounge cards). I really wouldn't want to lose this valuable benefit, which has encouraged me to often favour BE over RE for my frequent London trips.

[macuser]

I tend to keep my points for more last minute travel plans when the sector fare costs have risen.

Incidentally, now that there is a new Flybe baggage tariff, on the JER-LGW flights BA are very competitive especially if you dial Flybe's 23kg baggage allowance into the equation so that it is "like for like". Plus, of course, you can choose your seat with BA for free when checking in on-line. I actually found BA flights to now be somewhat cheaper than a Flybe points "free fare" fight!

[Owlery]

The problem with trying to use Rewards4all for last minute flights is that the chances of actually booking an available flight seem to be minimal. Even trying to book months ahead, you have to accept flights that are inconvenient (perhaps one leg will suit, but the return will then be on the wrong day). And because you're looking so far ahead, the majority of the fare is likely to be taxes and charges anyway.

I've used Rewards4all points for an Economy Plus flight, but it wasn't good value. I didn't have any luggage, and there was no time to use the lounge. I could have booked a full-fare Economy flight for only a little more. The main benefits were being able to select a seat, and a voucher for food and drink. Not much, really. In theory you can change the flight without charge; but only to another "free" return flight.

Also, several routes have NO Rewards4all seats available, ever.

I rate the scheme as pretty mean overall. Although the BA Miles scheme seems rather stingy too (to say the least). So I suppose we have to accept that these "loyalty" schemes are simply marketing ploys with little substance behind them.

[EI-BUD]

the heavy demand for flight redemptions on what is actually just a small number of the routes Flybe operates is putting huge pressure on some of our most popular ’sea and sun’ routes such as those to Spain and Portugal. As our network evolves over the next few years this situation is unlikely to change.




This is similar to the experience that Pan Am had in the US when it was around. Some flights on the popular routes to the caribean were filled with passengers on air miles.

I feel that the airlines give away as little as possible and if the passengers want to use there real reward to fly to Portugal or the sun routes Flybe should be accepting them, even if they did need to increase the threashold. It is also relevant that many business travellers who organise their own flight arrangement like the perk of air miles (reward 4 all) so that they can use their cumulative miles to get a good deal on a family summer holiday.

I am a member of Diamond Club and have accrued a strong balance but only see a value on redeeming the miles when it is for Long Haul Travel. Redemption is only for travel at least 7 days from today and when compared to the competition on many markets dont represent a good deal. However, bmi can say that when compared to their published fare for the same flight is alot more expensive. Debatable topic, and Bmi would be one of the more generous loyalty schemes.

EI-BUD

[bmaviscount]

I was surprised when flying this route last week, that it didn't fly down the East coast. It actually overflew Heathrow and routed south of London.
Why does it take this strange route?

[Boeing 77W]

Not sure on the layout of airspace on the East Coast. It could possibly be something to do with Flybe's policy on staying in CAS where possible...?

[GusHoneybun]

Fresh floatation rumours. Also a strong pointer to Flybaboo being one of the takeover targets. My guess is Finncomm is the finnish airline quoted here (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-14/flybe-plans-stock-listing-seeks-flybaboo-takeover-sunday-times-reports.html).

[ib26uk]

Does anybody know how to ADD a HOLD bag onto a flybe booking?

I`m flying BHX-EDI on Monday 22nd November - My plan was originally BHX-EDI-BHX... Circumstances have changed and I need to go to from EDI-LHR (BA) but need to add a hold bag for the BHX-EDI leg of my trip

Not sure how to add a bag for one leg of a flight with flybe without being charged to bring it back on a flight I wont be flying on

OR would I be best going to BHX and paying there to take a bag on the plane? - How much would it be at the airport for me to take a bag on the plane?

Anybody know ?! Thank you !!

[Boeing 77W]

Not sure about adding a bag for only one sector on the flight but to purchase the bag at the airport it's £30 for a 20kg allowance

[Cloud1]

I think it is a hitch with the site and its being sorted - for the time being contact reservations on 0871 700 2000 and they will honour the internet price for bags for the one sector.

C1 (everyone's friend on Pprune :ok:)

[ib26uk]

Thanks guys !!

£30... Seems alot

[Hull City AFC]

Does anyone know if Flybe are going to add any more routes from Humberside for Summer 2011.

[GROUNDHOG]

I knew Jim French from the 60's it would be great to see Flybe finally on the stock market and wish everyone there the best in exciting times.Well done to all involved.

[isitcheerie]

Yesterday's Sunday Times reported that Flybe's board decided last week to float the airline on the stockmarket. No surprises there, but it went on to say that funds raised would be used to expand the airline by purchasing two other carriers - anyone care to make bets? Eastern/Air Southwest? Aurigny/Blue Islands? Air France/KLM? Aer Arran/Aer Lingus? Nothing coming out of Exeter so something must be going on......

[G-AWZK]

The article mentioned flyBaboo and a Finnish airline.

[NorthernCounties]

Just wondering when the 175's eventually join the flee, what is the likely out come for Flybe. New bases? Or retiring some of the Dash's? Any ideas/rumours where FB would be interested in setting up shop in the UK and Ireland?

[Aero Mad]

NC, first route is LGW - GCI, starting Sept. 2011. Was utilising the 146s but the runway can't take the 195s at the moment - they are about to rebuild it, however.

[Coffin Corner]

Aero Mad

The first 175 is going to GCI in April, not Sept now.

[gearupflapsupshutup]

I've read (just can't find it anymore:{)a newsarticle saying that AirFrance/KLM dropped the idea of starting up a lo-co airline from the regions...

[Aero Mad]

This (http://www.guide2midipyrenees.com/news/360/Air-France-KLM-set-to-announce-rival-scheme-to-combat-low-cost-airlines), perhaps?

[WHBM]

it would be great to see Flybe finally on the stock market and wish everyone there the best in exciting times.Well done to all involved.
Surely the next chief exec at BA, after Willie Walsh, will buy up FlyBe, thus continuing the long-established sequence of alternate Chief Execs there investing in regional services, then the next incumbent dumping it all again. This has been going on, as far as I can tell, since BEA's formation in 1945. I always thought this was why BA maintained their continuing minority investment in Flybe, it's a sort of protection for this classic trend.

[Aero Mad]

Please BA, don't buy Flybe. You killed CityFlyer Express (arguably), you killed BA Connect, you killed British Regional and you've killed some other regionals (I'll get killed for saying this now). Flybe is rather successful and could do without being bought up unless you will turn it around for the better. (P.S.: I'm all for BA, but they can't run regionals!) :E

[gainanduru]

Well rumour has it, that in the coming few days a group of very high level Air France execs will be visiting flybe ext hq.
Flybe has even pulled one of their dashes of the line to go to CDG to pick these high level execs to fly them over to ext.
perhaps to do with lo co operation in france to compete against tgv,ryan and easy?:suspect:

[Aero Mad]

The AF strategy at running regionals really doesn't seem that bad, so no objections. The Olympic deal kicks the bucket in the New Year so they might want some more work. How is the Finnair work doing?

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Olympic finished end of Oct, Finnair never happened, think you're a little late to the party

[Burpbot]

gainunduru, You sure they will risk sending a dash? Would have thought 195 or a private jet charter would be a much safer option. Assuming they want to impress.

[Aero Mad]

Apologies.