FlyBe - 6

[Tonyq]

Jethro's fleets listing show G-FBEO/P due this year, but I've never been able to find any reference elsewhere to the order being increased to 16, to include these, so it would be good if someone well connected could confirm these are really due.

In the same vein, does anyone know when the next Q400's are due. It's almost 2 months since G-ECOO arrived and OP and OR have been reported complete in Toronto for a few weeks, so it certainly looks as if the original delivery plan is slipping, in the current climate.

Anyone have the facts?

[TechProblem]

As far as im aware the 195's are on hold atm. Just gettin more dashies.
I think the next dash is due this week.

[FlyingTinCans]

Yea they are getting a new Dash sometime this month, its going to BHD where it will replace the ATR from Aer Arann they had on wet lease, and to pick up the extra sectors as the Summer schedule kicks in.

[jimbo canuck]

The future G-ECOP has been at YYZ since March 10. The future 'OR was still at Downsview March 15.
Jimbo

[Otto Throttle]

The next new Dash arrives in BHD to commence operations 5th April. The 195s are still only options, which are unlikely to be taken up in the forseeable future.

[Haven't a clue]

The 195s are still only options, which are unlikely to be taken up in the forseeable future.

So...let's see. If the competition is a jet (ABZ, INV, JER, BHD) we'll put on a jet. But if not we have loads of Q400's which will do the job better. Eh?

[chrism20]

I can't answer for JER or BHD but I really wouldn't fancy doing ABZ or INV in the dash. I'm sure INV has a block time of around 2 hours. I am sure JER & BHD ran with 146's before they were phased out INV certainly was 146 in the BAcon days and ABZ is new to them.

I am sure the 195s were replaced 146 for 195. Guernsey was to get one to replace their 146 but there are issues with the runway down there and there competitor runs with props.

[mizake the mizzen]

Have done INV-LGW on the Q400 several times(which flybe operate at weekends on this route during the last few months Sat S2 and Sun S2) and was pleasently suprised. Block time was about 1:40 so a bit slower than the E195 but not noticeably (flybe schedule the sectors for 1:45 anyway). Wasn't as cramped or noisy as I had expected, and as allways the INV based Cabin Crews make the trip enjoyable.
The LGW route is back up to 3x E195 I believe from the start of the Summer timetable as the INV-SOU is going back onto the INV based Q400.
Have also noticed a big improvement in reliability on this route in the last 12 months in terms of punctuality.
Anyway just throwing my tuppence into the arena..

[100above]

Dash cruises at just under 360kt TAS, which is a bit slower than the 146-200 used to be, but not that much, while burning around 1000kg an hour - you can see why the bean counters love it. Putting it onto off-peak longer routes in the winter makes sense if you know you aren't going to fill a 195. Granted it isnt as spacious as the 195, but give me a Dash seat over a middle seat 3-3 layout on a 146/RJ anyday. The time difference on a domestic sector between a Q400 and a jet is usually between 5 and 15 mins longer depending on sector length - if the price is right and the dep times suit their schedule, most pax wont care what they fly on.

[A300BOY]

But one is in the weather the other is on top of it for most of the time in cruise ! Summer (dont care) Winter (Jet please)

[silverstreak]

Whens the LGW-EDI service starting? Been rumoured for a while now.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Silverstreak,

Understand that it is going to happen but await a start date, like you.

I flew from Southampton to Edinburgh last weekend, the flight left slightly early, by 3 or 4 minutes, it was full, the aircraft was a Dash 8 Q400, it was clean and tidy, the cabin crew were very professional and charming, thanks also to the flight crew, who flew us upto Edinburgh and we landed 15 minutes ahead of schedule. I would use Flybe anytime and without hesitation, would recommend it to my friends and colleagues.

[FL370 Officeboy]

But one is in the weather the other is on top of it for most of the time in cruise ! Summer (dont care) Winter (Jet please)

This is a myth. Maybe some older generation props might have bumbled around in the muck but I can't remember one occasion this winter have where I have spent the flight 'in the weather'. Cruising at FL230-250 is usually nicely above anything of any concern actually. Of course, the transition between cruising level and take off/landing will involve some flight through the weather but jets have to do this too.

[learjet50]

re the comments re INV CabinCrews

I Have had dealings with 99 percent of them they are Truly nice and caring Cabin Crew as are 99 percent of the rest of Fly Be s Cabin Crew

They are a totally credit to the company .

And dispite what people say?comment about FlyBe u cannot call the Cabin or Flight Deck Crews they do a tottally professional Job and are a Credit to there company





Regards

[cheesycol]

A300 boy - the tropopause is usually much higher spring through autumn than autumn through spring. It should be preferable riding higher in the summer rather than the winter (clearing CBs & thermal activity by a large vertical extent).

[mizake the mizzen]

Lerajet50

Agreed with your comment re the INV based cabin Crew. Several of them have been operating that route since the Dan-Air days at INV (1982-1992) and BA Citiexpress (1998-2007) so there has been continuity for those of us who fly regularly between London and Inverness.
They are as you say a credit and are truly nice, professional and caring individuals. Obviously comes down to a good recruitment policy and personal standards... And No, I dont work for the company but fly that route 4-6 times a year as SLF.

Could we move along with the thread? If you are happy with the Cabin service, I suggest you write to Management and say so.

AA&R Mods

[Maverick8701]

Anybody have any idea what's going on with the LGW base? I heard when it was announced that NWI would be shut as a base LGW would open for summer? The winter ended on Sat 28th so I guess NWI is now closed?? Surley LGW should now be open but have heard nothing did I get this info wrong just nothing in the press thought they would be shouting all about it in the current climate........Purley selfish reasons some new routes for LGW would be goodvery tempting with easy conx from St Hellier.

M

[FL370 Officeboy]

LGW base will open in June I believe

[Flightlevel001]

Yep, middle of June is what i'm hearing, but no hint of it on their website or on their online booking system so unless they sort that out they'll be flying empty aeroplanes...

German routes have been earmarked apparently...

[loveJet]

LGW!? won't this dilute their own traffic at SOU?

Perhaps their pax mix at SOU is very local then?

i know at one point they were trying to entice people to fly from southampton who resided in southwest and south London - perhaps that didnt work...

[horsebox]

On a slightly different topic. Any truth in the rumour that Flybe have a number of 146's safely stored in case they get the 5 year Scatsta oil contract out of Aberdeen?

[Serenity]

SOU - Hampshire, Dorset, Wiltshire and SW London
LGW - Kent, Sussex, Surrey, Essex to an extent and Rest of London (train is direct from Victoria). I even know people who travel form Herts and Beds for LGW! (LTN is very limitied).

:ok:

[Jes]

Not a big deal when direct trains run from Beds and Herts, including Luton.

[Maverick8701]

Horsebox,

Don't think there is any truth in that rumour. There are a couple 146's left in storage at EXT believe most are them are non-op no engines etc and just in storage however I think 2 have been sold saw one G-JEBA doing circuits the other day when i was in ext so possible handover flight. The Scatsa flights are primed for the Dash 146 would use too much fuel for it make a much bigger profit on the dash and more reliable.

[RVF750]

I always found the INV Cabin Crew to be the nicest and most enjoyable to work with from any other Base out there. Everyone up in INV from Willie's Taxi to the staff at the hotel were always very welcoming, kind and helpful. Even the yobs in Nairn centre were polite too.

It's a fantastic team up there, so no surprises at all.

One good point of Jet/vs Prop, the Q400 will out climb a 146 easily. I've outclimbed an A320 as well last week and it's not uncommon. One of the reasons the Q400 does so well at fuel burn is it's time to altitude. The big engines get you up out of the weather and right up to 25,000ft in about 11-12 minutes. Then the cruise fuel flows are very small indeed. Good for passenger comfort, and great for environment and economics too.

It's even possible to land them smoothly too, honest!

[bcn_boy]

with Lufthansa now departing from BRS, due to Bristol being to close to their services in BHX and LHR, could this not be an opportunity for FlyBe to start the suggested German services from Cardiff.

[Jes]

Would a Summer season once weekly service to Jersey justify £40k's worth of computer equipment being installed at an airport by Flybe.? Is it essential? Seems a lot of money for 40 legs in a season.

[FS01]

Jes what airport are you refering to?

[SWBKCB]

From the Newcastle Chronicle:

Big Al’s return is having an impact on all walks of life. Airline Flybe hit the headlines when it named an aircraft after former Toon boss Kevin Keegan.

When KK left St James’s Park, a black nose cap was put on the plane to mourn his exit. Now, Flybe’s Toon-supporting chief commercial officer Mike Rutter has taken the cap off in tribute to Shearer.

Mr Rutter said: “Only two events could have ever persuaded us to remove the black nose cone on our Kevin Keegan aircraft – either the return of Kevin as manager, or an acceptable replacement such as Alan Shearer. So now, as a lifelong fan of the club, I am delighted to officially mark the end of our period of mourning.”

The new-look aircraft can be seen operating out of Newcastle airport this weekend, going to London Gatwick.

[True Blue]

Flybe now showing Lgw - Dus on their bookings system. Aircraft departs Lgw at 7.30am. Is this the start of the Lgw base, is there more to come?

True Blue

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Flybe now showing Lgw - Dus on their bookings system. Aircraft departs Lgw at 7.30am. Is this the start of the Lgw base, is there more to come

Their press release says LGW is their 14th base, so I guess that means there is more to come.

[Steviec9]

Isn't LGW-DUS one of the old Air Europe Express/Euroworld/CityFlyer Express routes?

[Wycombe]

Yes, I think it is, I'm sure the Dash will be a bit more pleasant than the "sheds" that used to ply this route in the AE Express days!

[conradmueller]

As I heared no Dash but EM9´s are going to do the job.

[Maverick8701]

Im 90% sure that it will be a Dash on the DUS BE already have good engineering support for the Dash. Maybe a e195 when the base is established heard rumours of EDI and MAN routes from LGW anybody hear that?

[Tonyq]

Putting a dummy booking into the engine until you get to the point where the seating map appears shows LGW-DUS to be a Q400 route.

Besides which, they still have loads of new Q400's to come over the next few months, but no obviously spare E195's.

[Saab2000 Freak]

Originally one E195 was planned to be based in GCI but due to the runway limitations an extra Q400 was based there instead, so what happened to this essentially "spare" E195? Could this 'spare' a/c be based in LGW?

[Tonyq]

The GCI issue arose nearly a year ago when they were planning to retire the last 146's in October 2008. Presumably that E195 was reallocated many months ago.

As I said before, the booking engine is loaded with a Q400 seat map. Surely that confirms that Flybe intend to use that type on the route, and ends the discussion on this particular topic.

[Deano777]

It isn't going to be a 195, the base is opening with 1 Q400.

[JobsaGoodun]

Originally one E195 was planned to be based in GCI but due to the runway limitations an extra Q400 was based there instead, so what happened to this essentially "spare" E195? Could this 'spare' a/c be based in LGW?

I think you'll probably find that this one went to ABZ to operate the ABZLGW as this route wasn't planned when the GCI situation came up. I think it's likely that LGW might have E195's based in the future if the routes are successful but Flybe would be a bit crazy to launch with the E95 when the Q400 can do it just as well.

[ATIS31]

Was looking at booking a Flight from INV - LGW within the next week or two and noticed that it shows a Dash Q400 on a weekday flight are they getting downgraded from the 195 at INV ?

[Maverick8701]

Looking at the website looks as if the afternoon sectors have been downgraded to the dash but only on certain days as far as can see the main later flights are still on the e195 looks like flybe are reacting to the current climate with the dash needing to sell less seats to break even...smart business if you ask me.

[OltonPete]

At times there is a spare 195 and it usually sits on the 20's at BHX.
Although during the last week or two it has not always been around but
for a few days last week ACARSD was showing no movements for "EA"
or "EJ".

Also the 195 utilisation at bhx has further decreased with a swift ending
of double daily flights to Milan MXP. It now operates daily with the
weekday flight departing BHX at 09.40 basically leaving no time to do
a flight beforehand without re-timing one of the early morning outbounds.

Some days the 195's operate just 4 sectors.

Also cut is the midday Q400 BHX - STR.

You need not to look any further than the CAA stats to see why
both of these routes have been reduced.

The other thing of course both destinations were 145 routes last
summer and there is still a net seat gain. Sensible move if you ask
me although the flight timings could be better but this might be due
to slot restrictions down route due to the late change.

Pete

[Maverick8701]

EA is on C check in Exeter the first one of Flybes e95s in for major checks. Maybe the spare in BHX is covering EA's flying?

[Jamesair]

At the end of the press release about the new Gatwick - Dusseldorf route was this statement.

"we have big plans to grow further in Germany"

Anyone have any suggestions as to what new routes these plans involve?

[mathers_wales_uk]

I'm not sure if they have changed their mind but there was a mention last year of Germany possibly being introduced from CWL.

[GayFriendly]

"we have big plans to grow further in Germany"



I seem to remember them saying something similar about Eastern Europe and Scandinavia a year or two ago and about their BHX base about four years ago, absolutely nothing happened.......not sure why BE produce these strange media alerts as the rest of their business seems to be very soundly and sensibly run

[Deep and fast]

Could there be a link up with Luftansa? is flybe going to take BMIR and then feed into DUS?

No. If internal rumours are correct then Flybe asked Lufty the question were given a huge price tag and they ran home to Exeter.

Different business model, different fleet and similar routes. They do not really need another Bacon integration if there is no cash incentive.

D and F :8

[akerosid]

An Aviastar 146-300 which crashed in Indonesia yesterday was formerly G-JEBC:

No survivors as Aviastar 146-300 crashes in Indonesia (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/04/09/325007/no-survivors-as-aviastar-146-300-crashes-in-indonesia.html)

JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-JEBC (CN: E3189) Flybe British Aerospace BAe 146-300 by John Fitzpatrick (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5743872&nseq=14)

[fredtheanorak]

Wonder if fumes in the cabin will emerge:confused:

[Serenity]

So FyBe to start LGW-LBA route after BMI cancells LHR-LBA.

God call. :ok:



Flybe.com - News (http://www.flybe.com/news/0904/3128.htm)

[rpmac]

Good news for Leeds and Yorkshire. Maybe a springboard for additional routes to Frankfurt and Copenhagen.
Everyone is doing their part to promote needed services into Leeds, new terminal expansion by the owners, the airlines, apart from Bmi continue to provide a range of destinations so now Leeds City Council need to get on with approving the expansion before the Planning Comm and get the rail link sorted, if not direct into the airport then a shuttle bus from Horsforth. It is time Leeds moved on.

[pwalhx]

Call me cynical but LBA-LGW has failed before, it doesn't offer the connections that a LHR route does, I am not as enthusiastic or as hopeful as the above.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Call me cynical but LBA-LGW has failed before


Okay. You're cynical. Flybe seem to be making a habit of taking routes into LGW that others walked away from (ABZ and BA, NCL and Jet2 spring to mind). No reason why they shouldn't do the same with LBA.


it doesn't offer the connections that a LHR route does, I am not as enthusiastic or as hopeful as the above.


It (LGW) also doesn't involve a regular 20 minute hold, 15 minute taxi to stand or 20 minute walk to the tube before finally arriving in Paddington. One or two plus points over LHR even if there aren't the fabled connections LHR (sometimes) offers...... :confused:

[JobsaGoodun]

Call me cynical but LBA-LGW has failed before

Possibly.... but was this when there was a competing LHR service?
With the lack of any LHR service and no alternative from LBA, then maybe the LGW service will survive.

If anyone can make money on this Flybe will. The Q400 is the best capacity aircraft for this route and with the lowest operating costs out there.

[flyrio]

At least one weekend in the year Network Rail have to carry out maintenance work on the heavily used East Coast Main Line which means rail journeys between Leeds and Kings Cross are disrupted. They don't do this work during the week which would inconvenience business travellers (because they pay the highest fares) but it is an alternative for travellers between the two cities. Regular railway maintenance is criticial if accidents are to be avoided. Remember when journey times from Leeds were extended to about four hours due to speed restrictions?

Gatwick is only 30 minutes by train to London Bridge and City Thameslink and 30 minutes to London Victoria. Its also useful for those travelling right down to the south coast. When the redevelopment of Blackfriars starts there will not be a through service from Kings Cross Thameslink to the South Coast.

[Haven't a clue]

When the redevelopment of Blackfriars starts there will not be a through service from Kings Cross Thameslink to the South Coast


Erm..no. Blackfriars mainline station stays open. Through trains continue to run during the week, but there is frequent disruption at weekends. The underground station however is closed until 2011

Thameslink Programme - Find out about the Thameslink Programme (http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/cms/pages/home)

Jusr re-read the FlyBe press release, and looking at the timetable and the comment about 20 jobs created at LGW it would seem that this will be the second aircraft to be based at LGW.

[silverstreak]

... Still waiting to hear of LGW to EDI/GLA...

Come on flybe!

[Pilotdom]

The AirDB website says Flybe new route LBA-DUS. I wonder what Jet2 will make of that.

Edit to add: Prob not much as it goes via Gatwick.

[rouelan]

The AirDB website says Flybe new route LBA-DUS.

I don't find this site very reliable ????

[flyer55]

Are all flybe routes on a codeshare with BA ?

And does ba still have a 15% stake in flybe ?

[Tonyq]

Q1 - No - only a very small number of those taken over with BACON, such as LGW-INV.

Q2 - Yes

[johnnychips]

The first flight from Leeds doesn't arrive in LGW till 1010. Not very good for morning meetings after all the disembarking formalites and the admittedly good train service to London. Good if meetings are in Croydon though.

Other way, good arrival time in Leeds, especially if you live quite south of the river, but generally it just seems so much easier to take the train.

BMI pulled the LHR route for reasons that have been dissected on this site, but I do wonder how many of the passengers on their flights were indeed transfer passengers, which would give them a much greater incentive to fly than go by train. I've no idea, I just wonder. Are Flybe codesharing this route, and if so, what connections do they have in mind?

[Cloud1]

No code-share but plenty of interline partners from LGW, including BA, BD, VS, EK, SQ plus many other non-UK carriers. There is nothing stopping people from using the BE onward connections although granted the majority of these you could probably fly direct from LBA to.

Some passengers choose to travel into LGW and hop over to LHR. If the route can work in places like NCL where they still have another (current) London connection I am sure it will work for LBA.....just a little bit of faith??

[AirLCY]

Times should be for LBA based aircraft, there is much more demand north to south than the other way, southbound it will still be better for people to get the train to be in time for morning meetings. At least Q4 costs are v low, so may have a chance of working.

[bravoromeosierra]

No code-share but plenty of interline partners from LGW, including BA, BD, VS, EK, SQ plus many other non-UK carriers.I've noticed a few of these before, particularly on Expedia, on which you can book NQY to JFK on one 'itinerary' via BE and BA.

For example:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2724/nqyjfkic8.jpg

Would that be under one ticket, so would they interline bags etc?

[Tonyq]

Last year, I travelled IOM - MCO with tickets bought from Expedia, on BE and VS.

On the return leg VS were late, we missed our connection at LGW and were a bit uncertain how BE would treat matters, but their agents at LGW were excellent and rebooked us onto the next available flight, without any hassle or costs, at all.

I know that is what should happen when you're on one itinerary, but you can never be sure how carriers will react when you're on a 'cheap' ticket.

Bags were booked through in both directions and even found their way onto our rebooked flight without us seeing or touching them.

[wakeup]

what about the luggage allowance? do u get the 2 bags at 23kgs or is it just flybe's 1 bag at 20kg's?

[Devonair]

I flew from ATL to EXT last year via DUB and Flybe allowed same baggage rules as per the connecting carrier, I just had to show my ticket. In the past I have had to book seperate tickets, it now looks as though you can book one ticket from EXT to DXB for example routing over MAN and connecting with EK. Other destinations such as NYC are also available with CO and SYD with BA/QA.

£522.00
- Expedia Special Fare


16:00 Depart Exeter (EXT)
Arrive Dubai (DXB) 07:00 +1 day Thu 18-Jun
Duration: 12hr 0mn Flybe 375
Emirates 20
Connect in Manchester (Manchester Intl.)


07:55 Depart Dubai (DXB)
Arrive Exeter (EXT) 18:30 Tue 30-Jun
Duration: 13hr 35mn Emirates 17
Flybe 376
Connect in Manchester (Manchester Intl.)

[Tonyq]

On the trip I did, a free bag was included in the ticket price for the whole journey including the BE legs.

I can't remember whether the limit was 20kg or 23kg, as we tend to travel fairly light and have become accustomed to working within BE's 20kg limit anyway!

[FS01]

The general rule with BE is if the flights fall under the same ETKT segment then the bags can be interlined and the onwards carrier will be honoured by BE... There are exceptions to this however.

[Cloud1]

Generally speaking BE dont interline bags at LGW if it involves a change of terminal simply because they often go walkies. Best option would be to collect your bag and recheck it in with the next carrier - thats what I would do.

[Maverick8701]

Can't really see this happening well at least while BA are still on the route espec with BA owning 15%. Now should BA pull off the route with mass exodus of BA from LGW then very likley that flybe would take it over! Although not sure about competetion comms view on it? Anybody else know how it would work if BA gave LGW-MAN to little brother?

?

[JobsaGoodun]

Flybe have very little of the London market so I can't see that there would be many issues regarding taking MAN-LGW if it was available.

It would make sense and given the number of new routes coming out of LGW from Flybe over the past 18mths, it would appear that they want to take advantage of vacant LGW slots at the moment.

[gg190]

Last week I was scheduled to fly on Flybe flight 601 to Liverpool from the IOM (departs 7:05am), but the flight was cancelled due to a 'technical problem' and I did not travel until the 10:45am flight 603.

Maybe I'me just being very cynical here, but there were only 20 people booked on flight 601, but add these passengers to the ones already booked on flight 603 and you conveniently get a nearly full plane, plus they did not seem to being doing anything to the Q400 that was supposed to opperate 601, which you would expect if they were trying to fix a tech problem.

Maybe I'm just being far too cycnical but sometimes you do have to wonder!!

[fsiom]

maybe they were waiting on a spare part to fix the plane?? ever thought of that??

and if you so knowledgable about passenger loads can you confirm how many passengers were disrupted on the inbound flights and were they combined ok?

flybe do not just cancell flights on the day dur to load figures

[speedrestriction]

fsiom,

No need for the grumpy tone. You are correct, flybe don't cancel flights on the day due to poor loads. When flybe do decide to combine flights due to poor forward booking they typically do it several weeks if not months in advance offering customers alternative flights or a full refund.

sr

[Expressflight]

Grumpy tone quite in order in my view.

gg190 was speculating that Flybe were lying about the reason for the delay. Without any form of supporting evidence that is unacceptable in my opinion. UK airlines currently have enough problems without that sort of rumour mongering.

[Rollerboy]

gg190

The aircraft was tech and awaiting further checks from engineers before flying. Something required by law to protect the crew and pax... Safety before your ontime arrival fortunately!

Maybe I am being cynical here but do you need to see people standing around the problem to summise that work is being done. If you do, I guess you haven't seen many roadworks on the mainland!

Roller

[Haven't a clue]

What is worrying though is that FlyBe seem to have lost the Manx public's trust somehow.

A couple of weeks back a letter appeared in the local press from a traveller who had discovered the hard way that the travel insurance he was pressed to take when booking through the FlyBe website didn't cover loss caused by unintentionally missing departure when flying within the UK. Most do. My annual policy does. Missed departure or missed connections are probably the number one reason for islanders buying insurance for flights to or from the UK. Bad publicity for FlyBe.

There is often letters complaining about fares. FlyBe trumpet their fares with the "from only..." intro. People complain because they seldom get that fare and even when they do they get hit for all the extras. Yet those complaining do not seem to realise that fares have significantly reduced for the majority since the arrival of FlyBe. More bad publicity, oft unwarranted. (Except for the use of the hard to get Electron card to justify adding those unavoidable, for almost all, of us service fees and card charges, of course!)

Then there are those returning from afar who have sensibly left a lengthy connection time between their flight into the UK and their flight back to the island. Faced with a lengthy wait landside they seek to travel earlier. FlyBe will rebook them onto an earlier flight for a fee and the uplift from their original fare to that now available. More letters from those who chose to pay peanuts but expect a FlyBe to ignore its standard T&Cs.

Now we see Joe Public believing that FlyBe are inconveniencing them by cancelling flights with low pax loads. As has been said above this is untrue. But the belief persists.

Now the Isle of Man is a small community, but FlyBe needs to do something to address these misconceptions. What exactly, I don't know. But certainly some concession for those wanting to travel earlier on the same day might help.

[L G Double-Yew]

The Feb stats from the CAA make interesting (and generally not very happy) reading.

All UK Airports: -15%

UK Regional Airports: -18%

Then in the South West specifically:

BRS -26% (demise of Excel and Ryanair/Ezy not doing so much?)

EXT -29% (mainly Flybe presumably)

SOU -20% (mainly Flybe, or have other airlines cut routes/frequencies?)

NQY -39% (after-effects of December closure, plus no Ryanair in Feb)

BOH -10% (?)

PLH +17% (doing well on the basis of new routes presumably)

[FS01]

gg190 the previous post say everything, if an a/c is tech and requiring parts then why would anybody be at the a/c?

Haven't a clue I partyly agree with what you are saying, it goes back to the problems of summer 2007. When there were major delays and problems. Things now are a thousand times better than then. However as the Isle of Man is such a small community gossip and rumours, many untrue travel fast. Overtime as Flybe deliver on time figures as they do now the trust will return. Also many pax in IOM are unfamiliar with the LOCO business model of an airline and are used to the 'All-in' models of BA / Manx airlines. Although if you look back the press has always been full of complaints about the main carrier to IOM whether they be Manx Airlines, BA, EuroManx and now Flybe..... some things will never change! :eek:

[EMX81L]

gg190 - In reference to the tech a/c for the BE601...I was working that day and there was a leak from a place that really shouldnt be leaking. The aircraft was fixed mid afternoon but had to wait for permission to fly to BHX gear down. It positioned out around 16:45 empty. FS01 was bob on, the engineers were awaiting a spare part to come in so they could fix the problem. Once fixed, had to go to BHX for further checks before re-entry into service. At least you got to your destination, albeit a few hours late

[Haven't a clue]

FS01

Agree - but how can BE move forward? I'm a former Briish Midland/Air UK/Manx/BA Connect customer, as indeed are all those protesting!

BTW I've been hit a few times with BE delays but in each case I've got where I was going (although thankfully not delayed when I was trying to connect elsewhere!)

BE are good. But the message is not getting through.

[RVF750]

Remind us the the message again, in as few words as possible.

[Haven't a clue]

Darn it, I've forgotten it already!

Fair fares, frequent flights, mostly on time, nice people!
(vs Irritating extras, rigid T&Cs)

BTW I just looked again at my last e-ticket and the T&Cs re flight changes are all there. Assumes people bother to read them of course. Maybe the those that complain booked through travel agents and don't get the same level of detail?

[jabird]

HAC,

"(Except for the use of the hard to get Electron card to justify adding those unavoidable, for almost all, of us service fees and card charges, of course!)"

What is so hard to get about the Electron card? It was designed for people with less than perfect credit ratings, but that shouldn't stop savvy frequent fliers from stooping down to this level and opening up an account just for this purpose - putting snobbery to one side always works best with no frills airlines.

I agree that the fee seems extortionate, but if it genuinely allows airlines to offer cheaper fares elsewhere, what's the problem? I haven't flown with BE since last August, but I have just got back from a return trip with FR, where I paid £5 to fly BHX-BLQ, and then €5 for PSA back to BHX. The bus from BLQ to the city centre was €5, so if other people who don't have Electron cards were subsidising my cheap flights, I'm not complaining.

Afaik, the Co-op Cashminder account is open to all, and can be topped up from any post office. I wish Nationwide offered an Electron card too, as you'd then save on the foregin transaction fees too, but when the fares are this low, I'm really not complaining!

[bravoromeosierra]

Hey there,

Abbey National also do an Electron card.. I've used for the first time over the weekend to book my FR and BE flights. Only took me 1/4 hour to set-up in branch, and so on... well worth it. Saved me about £25.00! :ok:

[akerosid]

Heard that four EMB-195s are to be mothballed and that the next five Dash 8s due for delivery (G-ECOT, which should have been delivered, and G-FLBA to D) have been sold to another operator.

Is this true?

[Chesty Morgan]

They aren't being mothballed, yet. The company is looking at options for their use, including wet leases or ad hoc charters and as far as I can glean their sectors will be picked up by the Q400.

Couldn't tell you about the 5 Q400's being sold but I did hear a similar rumour the other day.

[Maverick8701]

Yes I have heard this rumour aswell. Also rumoured that up to four of those four emb190's are being sold to Lufthansa's regional arm - CityLine anyone have any further info on this? Also any news on the 4 ex SAS Dash's on the short term leases will they leave the fleet aswell as the other 5? potentially 13 aircraft on the way out then?

[OltonPete]

Just checked selective dates in May, June & September and BHX seems
to go down to one 195.

The BHX-GLA-BHX-DUS-BHX is now showing as a Q400 from I think the
third week in May.

The other 195 is still listed as BHX-MXP-BHX-GLA-BHX-EDI-BHX.

The away based 195 flights still seem the same from EDI & BHD.

Although I am sure two are required at the weekend for Split
and Dubrovnik plus charters to AHO, INS and Bastia.

Peter

[TechProblem]

I cant see Flyble losing 5 195's just seems like 2 many.
There are still 2 145's left, maybe they are 5 'EMB's' going,
meaning 2 145's and 3 195's.

I dont know the loads of any other station but, Manchester MXP and LDE will be on a 195, with the odd MXP on a dash. But there are 4 or 5 extra Charaters starting soon, and i know that some of them are opertated by the 195.

So with the LDE definitely on a 195, there will either need to be 2 based 195's in MAN or alot of Positioning. I assume that Flybe will have summer charater flights out of other stations too, as was the winter 195 program.

Realistically I can only see 1 or 2 going, and if they do, they will only be leased out.

[Tonyq]

All businesses have to ‘right size’ to remain profitable and fit enough to ride out the current economic storm. Therefore, some adjustment to the FlyBe’s previously announced fleet planning is almost inevitable, especially given some of the double digit falls in pax numbers through many of their key hubs, which must be hurting them.

However, with two E-145’s to leave the fleet soon and at least two more Dash 8’s needed to launch the new LGW base, some pretty big cuts would be required to generate these aircraft, if no more Dash’s arrive and four 195’s disappear too.

Overall, these numbers don’t seem to add up, unless a major culling of frequencies and/or routes is in the offing too.

[Otto Throttle]

4 E95s are indeed planned to be removed from the schedule over the course of the summer. Affected bases have been announced as BHX, SOU, EXT and BHD.

I doubt very much that these aircraft are to be sold. I suspect that the intention is to release them from scheduled services where loads are currently better suited to the Dash, and to free them up for a variety of charters and/or leases, where the E95 has a greater potential.

Lucrative work if you can get it. :ok:

[OltonPete]

Just checked BHX and there are some modest reductions.

FRA goes from three to two daily in the week and CDG from
four to three.

HAJ remains double daily on Wed & Thu.

BHD 5 a day every week day

GLA 5 a day on Mon/Tu/Fri

With the loss of the 145's the seat difference is probably
similar.

The ABZ schedule is still a bit odd considering BMI Regionals
good timings and is mainly just two a day in the week (3 Thu).

Not checked other bases.

Pete

[flying macaco]

The 2 emb 145's soon to be leaving Flybe - wouldn't happen to know where they are (rumoured to be) heading do you??

Thanks

[Street]

perhaps dniproavia?

[jabird]

"GLA 5 a day on Mon/Tu/Fri"

So much for the hourly shuttle service MR was talking about a couple of years ago!

[commit aviation]

To be fair Jabird, the market place & more importantly the economy are completely different now to a couple of years ago!

[ifu05596]

I frequently fly with Highland on the Stornoway - Benbecula route and the service is not very good. I have on occasions been sitting around the airport expecting the be called and the staff have the binoculars out looking for the plane that has not even left were it was coming from yet. A simple phone call to a. let the staff know and b. let the pax know would only be common courtesy.

The fares are a joke too. Stornoway - Benbecula £120 economy return (if you are lucky) for being on 15 minutes and they normally have decent loads and that is it with government subsidy apparently. When I fly Benbecula - Inverness I normaly change onto Loganair (Flybe) in Stornoway as its much cheaper and the cabin is clean, tidy, your hand luggage doesn't get confiscated from you!

Also I was on when an elderly woman was travelling for a hospital visit who was unsteady on her feet and they refused to use ambulift, which I believe the lady's doctor requested. The lady fell over the deathtrap of a step and was hurt badly. Not an infrequent occurance from what I hear.

Even without subsidy I think Flybe (Loganair) would make a better go of the route. It would allow interlining services to Inverness and Edinburgh and also be more useful to Barra pax. It would also have cheaper connection to Aberdeen/Sumburgh.

What happened to the extra rotation of GLA -BEB throughout June and September, only JUly and August showing on flybe.com now.

Is there any reason why they would not be allowed to fly the route if the others get subsidy?

[CRX]

But the point being missed is that the SYY - BEB service is a PSO, public service obligation. This is a contract that must be tendered for in due course. Highland won it last time, from the previous incumbant, Loganair (pre Flybe days).
It would be illegal for any other operator to set up an additional service on this route to undercut them.
Incidentally the cost of the flights are agreed (if not set) by the Western Isles council. Any changes must be passed by them and approved before happening.
Another point of note is that a lot, if not the majority, of the seats are paid for by the state anyway. Most travellers are council staff or NHS staff and patients.
Perhaps Logan/Flybe will tender again next time, who knows. But in the mean time what you have got is what you have got.

The ambulift situation has been clarified on the other thread (Highland Airways).
The JS31 can use 'modified' ambulifts, available at SYY and BEB, but not INV.
The airport are required to provide them, but particularly at SYY they are often driven by HWY staff. The only reason ambulift would not be provided would be unserviceability (not uncommon) and high winds (also not uncommon). In that situation crews have been known to do all they can to assist pax with boarding. But if not possible it must be a Kingair or EC135. I have known this only once in eight years of operating the route.

My interest in this matter is as a former long serving HWY captain, and a recent new start Flybe Q400 captain.

CRX.

[foamer]

Nice to see FlyBE land at MSE 10 mins ago for the first Jersey flight.

Do we think they may expand routes from here?

[sam dilly]

I see that Flybe have just started a Manchester to Lourdes twice weekly
charter, and I believe that a whole load of Ad Hocs are also on the horizon from various airports inc EXT JER DSA LBA EDI and others with the E 195,probably ex EAC work. How will they get 118 pax all their bags and say 12 wheelchairs in the hold ? It was difficult enough in the days of the BAC 111.
No doubt somebody has thought this through.

[Standard Loading]

and I believe that a whole load of Ad Hocs are also on the horizon from various airports inc EXT JER DSA LBA EDI and others with the E 195,probably ex EAC work

Although I would like to see a few extra Flybe adhoc flights from LBA, I don't think Lourdes will be one of them, as their is usually an Air Mediteranne? A321 charter.

Although it would be nice to be proved wrong!

SL

[Cloud1]

Adhoc Lourdes flights to:

Exeter
Manchester (not so much adhoc as all through summer)
Stansted
Glasgow Prestwick
Cardiff
Doncaster
Edinburgh

All E195 operated

I am not sure about LBA I think it may appear once but cannot be 100% sure.

[Otto Throttle]

They will obviously only need to carry the wheelchairs one way......:}

[TechProblem]

How will they get 118 pax all their bags and say 12 wheelchairs in the hold ? It was difficult enough in the days of the BAC 111.
No doubt somebody has thought this through.

How? Easily, They did the ski flights throughout the winter on the 195. These Passengers had a bag at 20k + Boot bag + A set of skis each. LDE 1 bag 1 WCH will be simple in comparsion. :rolleyes:

[mrmagooo]

If you ignore that fact that the ground agent would stand at the aircraft door with ski's saying sorry these wont be on this flight but a later one :ugh::ugh:

[speedrestriction]

mrmagoo,

was that on a dash or a 195?

[mrmagooo]

I believe both but have only ever SEEN it happen on a 195

[Otto Throttle]

That's funny. I'm not aware of a single 195 flight this season which bulked out with it's own passengers' baggage. There were several 195 flights which had to take excess baggage due to Dash 8s repeatedly bulking out, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that this wasn't possible in every case.

The 195 will quite comfortably swallow 150 pieces of baggage.

[Capt. Horrendous]

Mr Magoo always had difficulty SEEING anything, as far as I can remember.

[TechProblem]

A Full dash and Ski Flights do not mix. :rolleyes: I Believe Flybe are looking at reducing the ammount of seats sold on the Dash, just so they dont lose money rushing all the missed bags.

Re the 195, once the loading was looked at, apart from going close to over weight, there was only 1 or 2 ski's that didn't make it on them.

All in the past now, the point of all this was that the LDE flights wont be a problem.

TP

[planenut321]

Anyone know if Be are planning to paint the De Havilland Twin Otters in full colours?

[Cloud1]

already happened:

G-BZFP - Loganair De Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter Aircraft Photos - Glasgow - International @ Airplane-Pictures.net (http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image40250.html)

[ALLMCC]

The two Twin Otters are already in Flybe livery although I haven't yet seen either since their repaints. As far as I know the Islanders will stay in their current livery.

[Cloud1]

The Islander routes do not form part of the franchise and as such will remain in the loganair colours

[Snigs]

Otto Just to clear this up

4 E95s are indeed planned to be removed from the schedule over the course of the summer. Affected bases have been announced as BHX, SOU, EXT and BHD.

The substitution of E195 for Dash's will be BHX, SOU, BHD and EDI (although the EDI 195 was originally EXT based in summer 2007, and when moved to EDI was crewed by EXT crew)

I hear that the company is doing reasonably well in finding charter work for the lonely 195's

[Tonyq]

Can anyone clarify what is happening with the remaining 10 Q400's which are still due by the end of 2009, to take the fleet to the figure of 60 mentioned in the FlyBe annual report.

There was a suggestion on here that 5 had been sold from the production line, and the delivery dates published elsewhere for G-ECOT/G-FLBA/G-FLBB have now passed, so maybe this is true.

However, presumably they need 2 additional a/c to open the LGW base in late June, there are still 2 E145's to replace and the E195 substitution programme seems to need 4. So assuming no big cuts elsewhere, that finds work for 8 from 10 Q400's, but does anyone know for sure what is planned.

BTW, what chance the displaced E195's will eventually come back into play when the long rumoured take over of the BA LGW domestic routes happens?:ok:

[RVF750]

...er, every chance. Flybe is as agile as any airline. Opportunities are always looked for and with crew and hulls available, watch this space.

Oh, and as for Ski flights and loading. If you stand out with the loaders and impress on them the need for thinking about what they're doing, you can get 90 bags on a Q400. 5-6 sets of skis in the front hold, providing they're shorter modern ones, and the big problem si the agents at the Ski end not getting the numbers to crew early enough to prevent too much fuel going on to go overweight.

I've certainly never left bags behind for such reasons. Long may that continue.

[silverstreak]

With the parking up of aircraft etc, isnt it time flybe 'suggested' to BA that they could take over LGW - UK Domestic routes. The 190s are an ideal aircraft and are just big enough to replace the 737s. BA puts the codeshare on the flights, saves BA money replacing the 737s, lets BA concentrate on LGW-Europe and sell J Class proper, and keeps flybe flying whilst protecting BAs investment. Simples ;)

[Wellington Bomber]

Silverstreak

Tell that to the crews, who will be made redundant as they fly 737's and not EMB195's. Also a big union airline and this would not go down well

[JAR]

What will BA City Flyer do with their 190s when they get them apart from LCY?

[Skipness One Echo]

BA puts the codeshare on the flights, saves BA money replacing the 737s, lets BA concentrate on LGW-Europe and sell J Class proper, and keeps flybe flying whilst protecting BAs investment. Simples

I want to fly the BA service as it is full fare and cabin service included. Aside from the fact that this would put even more BA staff out of work at Gatwick, we shall see if BA are happy enough with the CityFlyer ERJ operation as I agree it is a good size to replace the smaller B737 routes at LGW.

[Haven't a clue]

I assume that the plan to float FlyBe which was put on hold while BACon was absorbed, is back on hold until the stock market improves. Until the float BA owns 15% of FlyBe. BA will drop unprofitable routes from time to time, and FlyBe will no doubt have the opportunity to take the route on.

Are the LGW domestic routes unprofitable? Who knows? But until Waterside decrees they are, then surely they will continue to be operated by BA.

[Cloud1]

In the current climate I cannot see any airline taking over the entire BA domestic operations at LGW.

Skipness One Echo - I do not expect any change at LGW would affect their LHR services so if you enjoy the BA service this will still be available to you abeit from the UK's largest airport.

I am not sure about the redundancies, I would expect BE to offer BA staff the option of a transfer and retraining onto the Q400/E195 fleet as they did with BA connect. I cannot see how BE have enough staff as it is to fulfill the requirements for all the domestic ops ex-LGW so I expect BA will put this option forward. However this is not going to happen in the short term so BA staff have nothing to worry about :ok:

[parky747]

In the current climate I cannot see any airline taking over the entire BA domestic operations at LGW.

Hope it never happens, I hate the flybe product. T3 at MAN used to look and feel quite classy when BA were a resident, now it looks tacky with flybe / ezy.....

[Maverick8701]

I hate the flybe product

That's fair enough you are entitled to your opinion.....However I dont think you can question one of the only airlines still making money in the current climate? Low cost seems to be the future with european/domestic routes with such short flight times passengers not concerned with the BA service. For BA to be strong they need to focus on Long Haul although I wouldn't rule out BA buying Flybe in the future when the company is established and rebranding BA regional/european etc.

[Haven't a clue]

I wouldn't rule out BA buying Flybe in the future when the company is established

And then loading it with unnecessary overhead, and shutting it down because it's now unprofitable...seen it before, haven't we?:E

[Skipness One Echo]

loading it with unnecessary overhead

That's the trick. Using Ockham's razor to keep the brand in place, the terms and conditons seperate from LHR using outsourced handling as per industry standard now. Their track record in ruining Brymon, British Regional and CityFlyer Express suggests otherwise alas.

[iwhak]

However I dont think you can question one of the only airlines still making money in the current climate?



Wouldn't be so certain!

[speedrestriction]

in the future when the company is established

Um...Spacegrand, Jersey European, British European, flybe etc has been around for thirty years. What counts as established these days?!?

iwhak, just to clarify, are you calling into question flybe's profitability or the profitability of other airlines?

sr

[iwhak]

The post from Maverick8701 states that Flybe are making money in the current climate. Yes, to be clear I am questioning that they are!

[Snigs]

Oh yes they are, for this year.

And the projected loss for next year is only £1M..... not bad compared to losses of £80M-ish for some other airlines!!!

[iwhak]

I do not wish to denegrate BE in any way, but why would they predict a loss for next year (which allegedly will see the begining of economic recovery) if they are generating profits this year which is one of the worst years the industry has seen!

[Haven't a clue]

BE's accounts spell out their fuel hedging policy, which is (per 2008 accounts):

The objective of our fuel hedge policy is to smooth the cost of fuel over time and to de-risk the cost escalation as far as possible, thereby enabling the Commercial team to price our product before the selling season commences. The policy is to buy 5% monthly tranches over a 12 month period, starting 2 years ahead of flying, thus ensuring we are 60% hedged 12 months in advance

They go on to say:

The company has not adopted the fair value accounting rules of FRS25 and FRS26 and recognises gains and losses of fuel derivative contracts as they mature.

Finally Note 35 to the accounts says (albeit shortened by me):

The group has derivative financial instruments that it has not recognised at fair value as follows:
• Foreign currency derivatives with a mark-to-market net asset totalling £1,830,000 (2007: £1,987,000 net liability).
• Aircraft fuel derivatives mark-to-market with a net asset totalling £3,158,000 (2007: £1,139,000 net liability).
The foreign currency derivative instruments represent 137 open contracts comprising swaps, forwards and options with maturity dates ranging from April 2008 to August 2010 which are to purchase either US dollars or
euros to meet business requirements.
The fuel derivative instruments represent 42 open contracts comprising swaps, collars and options with maturity dates ranging from April 2008 to October 2009 which are to purchase aviation fuel.

The upshot of this (and feel free to correct me) is that fuel costs are 60% hedged 18 months forward, and any gain or loss on the hedge is ignored in the annual accounts. So earlier hedges will have held their fuel costs down through their year to 31 March 2009 and they should thus enjoy a healthy profit. However hedges made in summer/autumn 2008 when the fuel price rose significantly will hit the accounts in the year to 31 March 2010 so unless they have jacked up their fares significantly (and my experience booking with them suggests they haven't) there will be a negative impact on profit.

Although they operate a fuel efficient fleet, and thus are less exposed to fuel costs than others, they will also be suffering from the economic downturn as well.

Hence I guess the forecast £1m loss referred to by Snigs.

[cheesycol]

I am not sure about the redundancies, I would expect BE to offer BA staff the option of a transfer and retraining onto the Q400/E195 fleet as they did with BA connect. I cannot see how BE have enough staff as it is to fulfill the requirements for all the domestic ops ex-LGW so I expect BA will put this option forward.

That's cheered me up no end!! I would suggest that Connect salaries were, at best 2/3rds of an equivalent mainline paypoint, plus a MASSIVE difference in allowances. There would be no way that Jim would agree to pay protect that!! It wouldn't even be a passing thought!! Plus, there would be mutiny and murder if a BA mainline pilot were to be pressganged onto a Flybe Scheduling Agreement. Awesome!! :E

BA only have 3 domestic routes ex-LGW; MAN 5x daily, EDI 4x daily, GLA 4x daily. If I were a betting man, BE would take MAN down to x4 and I reckon it would require 1 & 1/2 airframes per route per day. Call that 5 aircraft, 6 if they had to, and it would probably be a mix of dash & 195s. Not such a big ask of Flybe resources at the moment.

The differences between Flybe/Connect and the above are like night and day, least of all that Connect ceased to exist! I have no doubt that BA could redeploy that number of displaced crew within their business. Great speculation though.

[Maverick8701]

good post cheesycol.

I am led to believe that Flybe would be able to easily crew the EDI/GLA and MAN with their own crew and those currently swimming in the pool. A second point I am reliably informed that Flybe very nearly started the LGW-MAN route effective of the LGW base opening to go with the DUS it was apparently on some plans. However due to the economic climate and BMI coming off the LBA LHR it was shelved and the LBA put in its place. However im not sure what would have happened with the BA route if it went ahead? Anybody have any idea whether they would have come off it or gone into competition? Seems a bit silly to compete on routes given the interests.

Same source mentioned EDI/GLA are ment to be more tricky than MAN due to union issues this true?

[cheesycol]

The possibility of an EDI/GLA dual base has caused some consternation amongst the ranks, especially those who are familiar with the drive between the two airports. BALPA would require a number of specific caveats before approval as a dual basing.

Regarding the BA CC, it would remove the Scope clause from the issue, as BA would be effectively giving away the route to a non-BA airline. I can see that causing some issues if utilised as a management tactic, especially if BA increased their share in Flybe and profited from the arrangement.

Still chuckling.......!

[OltonPete]

As mentioned in an earlier post it seems that G-ECOB will be on it's
way back from Norway soon.

Selective quote from the CAA site G-INFO: -

""Open Aircraft Registration Cases
Case Name: Restoration to the UK Register Open Date: 27/04/2009
Review Date: 22/05/2009

Open Applications and Approvals Cases
Application Type: C of A Issue Received Date: 28/04/2009
Expected Date of Processing: 19/05/2009/"

End of quote

BHX's second operating 195 should finish today when the early
morning Glasgow and afternoon Dusseldorf change to the Q400
per the timetable. Whether this actually happens remains to be
seen but not long to find out.

However last week the "spare" 195 was operating virtually a full
Q400 schedule.

Still no sign of G-ECOT on G-INFO, are the rumours true as indicated
in earlier posts that this aircraft is not coming or is it just delayed?

Pete

[MUFC_fan]

Anybody know what the figures are like on the BLK-IOM-BHD routes?:}

[Maverick8701]

Not sure if Flybe would have access to those figures as a loganair route I guess untill the CAA release them.

With ECOB coming back from Wideroe (SAS) does that mean the others will also return?

As for the Q400's maybe they have delayed them untill LGW opens at the end of June or dare I say it.......financing problems? Not saying they are but is a possible explanation for delays with the banks like they are!

[FS01]

MUFC fan i could give those figures, but can't.... all I can say is that BE and Logan have scheduled twice daily on both routes through the winter. :ok: so the loads are not bad!:)

[ALLMCC]

If the ones loaned to Wideroe are returning then presumably the ex-Wideroe examples currently flying for Flybe will be returning to Wideroe. If that is the case, then Flybe will still have the same number of Q400s assuming there are no further new deliveries in the pipeline.

[MUFC_fan]

That's good.

I have seen that Manx2's loads haven't suffered so obviously there will be a steep rise in passengers on the route over the next 12 months.

I and many others thought two carriers on one route wouldn't work, it probably still won't, but I hope it does!:ok:

[FS01]

MUFC fan a lot of people have been hoping the same but it is too early to tell. End of the season should give some answers.....

It sounds like BE will also be basing a 4th Q400 at IOM in the not too distant future (2010) :ok:

[Tonyq]

Both G-ECOT and G-FLBA have been reported test flying out of Toronto over the last week or two as C-FVUV and C-FVVB, in FlyBe colours, so if they are going elsewhere, then it must be a last minute decision.

But bringing G-ECOB back, (and presumably C/E/F eventually) throws more permutations into the mix.

I guess we can only wait and see what happens before the LGW based routes start.

[Deano777]

I have ECOT on my roster for next month so it must be imminent.

[TechProblem]

I know Manchester will be getting 2 more based DH4's as the last 145's (JA/JC) will be leaving the fleet at the end of this month.

I heard OT will be one of them.

TP

[adfly]

how many aircraft are based in sou???

[Tonyq]

ACARS shows both G-ERJA and G-ERJC still flying from MAN, mainly on the German routes. Another poster says these will go by the month end, which makes sense, bearing in mind the stockpile of new Q400's and the desire to get to a two type fleet.

G-EMBN is still active, but with BMI Regional. All others are withdrawn and most have moved on to new operators in Ukraine, Spain and Greece.

[Serenity]

Are not 2 of the Q400`s headed for LGW by the end of next month, and i doubt id be far wrong saying that there is probably more routes from LGW yet to be announced??

[woofly31]

Anyone know where these 145's are heading? Any going in bmi regionals direction?:ok:

[adfly]

is it 2 or 3 e195s based in sou????????

[Maverick8701]

I think 3 195s are at SOU however not sure if they are all flying? Def saw 3 there when I landed yesterday.

[Chesty Morgan]

Yep it's 3, at the moment, all flying.

[Tonyq]

G-INFO shows G-ECOT as added to the UK register yesterday, so delivery must be imminent.

There are also photos of G-FLBA/B/C on Flickr, at various stages of readiness, if anyone is interested in searching. They all wear Flybe colours, so rumours of their disposal now seem ill-founded.

Interestingly OT's ownership status is given as 'chartered' whilst G-ECOP/R are shown as 'owned'. I guess this reflects Flybe's apparent agility in most things they do, and putting the most favourable financial arrangements in place, at any given moment in time.

[OltonPete]

LN-WDT Wideroe Q400 arrived back in BHX at 17.12 today and
appears to have entered the hangar. I assume G-ECOB will be
re-applied shortly.

Just the one 195 operated out of BHX yesterday on schedule
flights but it did not last with all three operating this morning.

The last time I checked the flybe timetable it had next Thursday
as the last day of the 145 operation (Dusseldorf - Manchester)
but I assume that is subject to change.

Pete

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Shame to see the last of them go :(

[Cloud1]

BHX to Palma (and MAN-PMI) are both regular charters this summer season. However you have kind of answered your own question really - they do not appear on the Flybe website as they are charter flights and can only be booked through the appropriate travel agent / tour operator

[OltonPete]

195 Saturday schedule

BHX is showing PMI, INS & AHO tomorrow re charter/IT flights and the
schedule Split which I believe is sold to agents as well.

Q400 also did a Heinekan Cup Final charter today BHX-EDI today.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Not restricted to Manchester or Birmingham to Palma either by the look
of it with Q400 G-JECR operating Guernsey Palma today per acarsd.
Is this a bank holiday one-off or regular throughout the summer?

The aircraft operated BHX-ABZ-BHX-GCI-PMI-GCI-BHX - a fair days
work for a Saturday.

Some pretty good Q400 utilisation today out of BHX although there
was enough slack for one to position to Dublin this morning for a
Rugby charter to Edinburgh.

The ex Wideroe Q400 (G-ECOB) is still supporting it's Norwegian registration but in full flybe colours.

Pete

[Cloud1]

OltonPete is correct, BE have been operating GCI-PMI and JER-PMI, the latter operated by a mix of Q400 and E195. These are charters again although I have a feeling some of them are private charters

Usually flights BE8*** are private charters / football charters
BE9*** are IT flights for a tour operator

[J-Guy]

The Palma charter flights from Guernsey and Jersey have been operating during April and May on behalf of a local tour operator; they finish at the end of this month. BE9325/6 are the flight numbers for the Jersey flights I believe.

Flybe will again operate charter flights from Jersey to Palma between mid-July and mid-August during the summer holidays. I understand that Flybe will also operate down to Malaga from the islands during October.

[Saab2000 Freak]

Woud there ever be a possibility of flybe launching a once or twice weekly scheduled service from Guernsey and Jersey to Palma or Malaga, operating say GCI-JER-PMI-JER-GCI? They already operate a weekly summer service from Jersey to Nice.

[MUFC_fan]

They already operate a weekly summer service from Jersey to Nice.


Tax haven to tax haven (Jersey and Monaco)?

[Tyreplug]

Has anyone heard or got an update on rumour as follows: 4 Q400s to go to Athens with crew to operate with a Greek Airline. Andrew Strong (a Flybe boss) has apparenrly been out there several times to set up the deal?

[Flightlevel001]

You're right in that talks have taken place, however we're told that it is now not going to happen...

[six-sixty]

nearly correct but the talks were about wet leasing 145's not Q400s.

[Deano777]

six-sixty

Not sure where you get your info from but I was told by "management" it was to be Q400s

[Maverick8701]

I too have heard the q400 rumour....don't think Flybe have 4 Emb 145s left do they? Anybody have any solid info?

[adfly]

no i think they only have 2 e145s left

[GusHoneybun]

only 1 145 seems to still flying for flybe, crewed by contractors out of man each day.
there are still 4 or so stored down in EXT waiting for a buyer. the problem with a wet lease is there is no more 145 crew. everyone is either q400 or 195 these days.

[Tonyq]

Atleast 3 E145's have joined the Greek register with Athens Airways over the last few months, as SX-CMA/B/C (former G-EMBH/K/L), so maybe that's part of the confusion here.

Also, as the 4 Q400's which have been with Wideroe (G-ECOB/C/E/F) return, presumably the 4 older ex-SAS ones (G-ECOV/W/Y/Z) become spare.

Maybe FlyBe see an opportunity to use them as a sub-fleet for lease, or some other opportunity. No point sending them back to SAS or Bombardier, if FlyBe can find a way to make money with them.

[Han 1st Solo]

There was a plan to wet lease a 145 (JC I think) to Athens airways for 4 months using the remaining 145 senior captains, contract captains and flybe fo's, I know as i was 1 of those on the list to go after my 195 course was cancelled. Unfortunately RBS dragged its feet to the point where dash courses had to be allocated to the remaining 145 pilots so the plan was abandoned, whether or not its been revived with dash 8s I don't know. The intention was to find a use for either JA or JC as I have been reliably informed their leases run well into next year.

Shame as it would have been a great summer :{

Han.

[Maverick8701]

I appreciate just a rumour at this stage but any idea how it would be crewed etc? Would love some time down in Greece!! Work on the tan!!

[Haven't a clue]

Flight International reporting that FlyBe are unhappy with BA who have reduced the value of their 15% holding to £30m by writing off £13m this year (against £6m last year).

See: Flybe disputes BA's writedown of shareholding (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/05/28/327084/flybe-disputes-bas-writedown-of-shareholding.html)

Interesting that both Virgin Atlantic and FlyBe have trumpetted their profitability whereas the publically quoted part owners (Singapore and BA) who are obliged to use international (and thus different) accounting standards effectively say otherwise.

Let's hope VS/BE are right.

[OltonPete]

G-ERJC flew Dusseldorf to Manchester yesterday as per the timetable
but then positioned to BHX to operate today's BE7059/62 BHX-EDI-BHX,
it then went out empty to Exeter this evening at about 7pm.

Is that the end of revenue services for the 145 with flybe?

Also G-ECOB still not back on the UK register per the CAA (checked
G-INFO at 22.45), showing to be reviewed by 2/6/09 - I think it is still
in the hangar at BHX.

Pete

[learjet50]

Yeh

I Think thats it for E145 Fleet very sad to c em go but i suppose thats th way the airline planned it

Good luck to all the Freelance Pliots who were on the E145 hope u find somthing soon

[cornishsimon]

anyone know if the 145's are off to a new home ? (bmir ?) or are they to be stored at EXT for the time being?

[Island Jockey]

One for handback and the other is giving a couple of engines that belong to that handback.

[gkaloy10]

I think athens airways has already taken take 1 flybe aircraft....

[adfly]

any new routes coming soon???

[Tonyq]

As I posted only a handful of posts back, Athens Airway have 3 ex-FlyBe Emb 145's...............

There is a Bae 146 with Astra Airlines in Greece (ex-G-JEBE) - according to Wikipedia Athens are also using a 146 from Astra so it could be this one, although Astra have an ex-Flightline one as well.

G-JEBG is now owned by Bank of Scotland but remains on the UK register, so is probably not in Greece.

All this from G-INFO, Wikipedia and Google in five minutes:ok:

[Kezler]

Sounds like the rumours are true, 4 Dash's to Athens apparently starting on the 1st of August....that means that they have to start rostering NOW! Wonder how it's going to happen, probably "open" a base down there so that they don't have to pay us duty pay while we're there. Heard that housing being provided. Sounds like a good change of pace....

[Maverick8701]

Very much doubt that housing will be provided would have thought everyone will be in a hotel....will see if I can find out. Im sure we wil get flight pay no way round it I can see. Sure it would be tricky to open a base paying people in euros etc!! Also not enough time I'm sure it will be run in the same way DUS and NQY are covered. But obv on slightly longer term "tours" maybe a week or 2 at a time im guessing 2 weeks or 16 day blocks to allow for positioning. ANyway fantastic news!! Makes me feel much safer in my job!

[Kezler]

Heard that the company is Olympic...do they own Athens Air? I think tours would be the way to do it as well, for those that want to do it. Seems like they're waiting for their own Q's to turn up and using us in the interm for 18 months. Look forward to something new....one more Belfast and I might scream...

[erja1]

Who is the source of this information? I do not see it anywhere...

[Kezler]

Balpa CC was informed in BHX on Tuesday, they were told it's a done deal. I must add that Balpa was, of course, not informed beforehand....

[Jamesair]

Maverick....you will be better off if you get paid in Euros....conversion back to sterling will be like getting a pay rise :ok:

[Deano777]

No james cos the pay will be commensurate to the exchange rate no doubt :)

[Maverick8701]

Have spoken to someone in flt ops apparently confirmed. I dont think Athens airways has anything to do with it according to to them....announcement in 10-14days need to have everything in place first.

[embraernotworthy]

Announcement tomorrow i heard!!!

[Rollerboy]

Olympic Airlines are a good bet. They already operate Dash 8 100s so are maybe looking at expanding out to the Dash Q400.

My guess is, if as Jethro's listings are correct Flybe maybe looking to sell a couple of Q400s. A deal could be done whereby these Q400s could be bought by Olympic, the pilots could be trained inhouse down at Exeter during this time Flybe pilots could operate the schedule. Olympic may buy a couple of new Q400s from Flybe thus reducing the number of backed up aircraft Flybe have.

Flybe makes money by utilising and selling aircraft, training pilots and providing contract pilots win win win situation.

Roller

[Boing7117]

A letter in our crewroom yesterday explained things a little more clearly....

- 4 Q400's going to Athens along with the required number of crew. To operate under Olympic Airways between Aug 2009 - Sep 2010.

- Staff will be hotel based so full duty pay will be paid.

- Expect going out there for 2 weeks at a time. It looks like we might be expected to do 5 on / 2 off / 5 on and then back home (although this bit is purely guesswork - nothing confirmed on the letter)

- Not sure about route network although in terms of the flight crew they're likely to send out there will probably depend on the category of the aerodromes we'd be flying to. Provided we don't need any extra training in the sim (like Chambery) - it may well be simply a case of making a bid.

We've plenty of FO's - no issues finding them. Just wonder if we've enough Captains to cover.

Haven't got the letter to hand so can't write it out word for word...

[Wycombe]

I expect Mr O'Leary is wishing he could come up with a similar scheme to make use of his spare capacity - sounds like good business by Flybe.

[mrmagooo]

They will be taking Flybe engineers out there too so its more of a lease than a sale.......

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Boing7117,

For someone who does not have the letter to hand, you appear to be well informed. Perhaps I could ask you to go to your crew room and copy the letter on here.
FF

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Boing7117,

Please ignore my last post, it appears you are correct and I apologise for my somewhat cynical post - I ought to have checked first! Too many earlies and feeling a bit tired.
Best. FF

[Maverick8701]

I can confirm the details of the notice in the crewroom. I need to work on my tan Athens here I come!!

[MUFC_fan]

Just a curios question.

Would all the relevant crew be taken out on the dash a/c or would they be flown out seperately?

Also, I assume that the a/c would be able to fly non-stop from SOU/EXT/wherever to ATH without passengers wouldn't it?

[Deano777]

Depends on the wind, it could do it at a push but would imagine a tech stop would be needed. It would certainly be needed flying Westbound with the predominantly prevailing westerlies.

As far as I am aware the SAS a/c are going back as we receive the ones back from Wideroe

[Maverick8701]

French named CBE in Queens birthday honours.

"Flybe Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Jim French has been recognised in the 2009 Queens Birthday Honours’ List with a CBE for his services to the UK airline industry."

[Sark]

He has been a great servant to Flybe and before and probably deserves his award if you agree that doing your job deserves an award.

[Fullback]

Thoroughly deserved, well done JF.

He has his doubters but no-one can deny that Jim saw the way ahead, changed the airline and has kept us in business when many have failed. I for one am grateful that we have him at the helm.... :D

[TechProblem]

Hearing a Rumour at Manchester that Flybe are going to change handling agents. Not sure how trueful this is, because no one at the current handling agent seems to know anything about it. :ugh:

Anyone shed any light?

[1station]

Not happening. Contracted until March 2010. :ok:

[habs_fan]

Anyone know who's going to get the the flybe ground handling contract at EDI? as there current contract with menzies expires in winter

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Flybe have gone public with the Olympic Air deal (below). I know someone has already said this but it strikes me as a very clear (and I guess, profitable) way of finding a use for aircraft during a downturn.

Flybe tie-up with Olympic Air on regional flights
16 June 2009
<Europe’s largest regional airline to provide up to 4 aircraft with co-operation in multiple fields providing further boost for Flybe brand awareness>
Flybe, Europe’s largest and most successful regional airline, is delighted and proud to announce its support for the summer start-up of Greek airline, Olympic Air.
By providing Olympic Air with four Bombardier Q400 aircraft, with pilots, cabin crew and engineering support, the deal is yet more evidence of Flybe’s growing reputation as a quality provider of professional ‘turn-key’ solutions in the global aviation market.
The ‘wet lease’ arrangement is from August 2009 until September 2010, at which point, the aircraft will return to Flybe. Based in Athens, the aircraft will become part of the New Olympic business and, operating under the Flybe Airline Operating Certificate (AOC), will be fully crewed by Flybe pilots and cabin crew and maintained by Flybe engineers.
The deal, which was officially announced at the prestigious Paris Air Show is the latest in a line of innovations which have highlighted Flybe’s ability to not only ride out the recession but place it in a position where it will emerge stronger and more competitive when the upturn arrives.
In what is a major extension of the Flybe brand, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Jim French says: “The partnership with Olympic Air is an exciting development for Flybe. Following on from our Air Transport World Regional Airline of the Year award, this is a major extension of the Flybe brand and is a very important milestone in Flybe’s development.”
He adds: “The Flybe business model has been a great success over the last eight years and as a result I am proud that we will be one of the very few airlines likely to announce a profit for the 2008-09 financial year.
“Over the past 18 months or so, Flybe has been offered literally dozens of opportunities to start up or support start-ups globally all of which, until this one, we have declined. Flybe’s senior management team is 100% convinced that this partnership with Olympic Air is a tremendous opportunity and dovetails perfectly with our brand. We look forward to it being a great success.”

[Boing7117]

Yep it's great news for us all. This might be just what we need to make sure we get through this recession!

[Skipness One Echo]

Is it going to be four dedicated aircraft or any four on a rotational basis for maintenance?

[chrystall]

i have heard this one recently too - and since when did a contract make that much difference?? interesting times ahead!

[Grizzle]

chrystall

and since when did a contract make that much difference??

An overseas contract like this secures employment for 4 aircraft, 30 odd flightdeck and the associated cabin crew, which would otherwise have been in danger of being put out to graze.

I would say that is a pretty significant difference, as will the next contract when it is announced :ok:

[mrmagooo]

Not only flight crew, but a fair few engineers as well........... So your looking at possibly 40 jobs safer after the announcement than before

[Grizzle]

Of course, I should have included the engineers too! :O

[Wellington Bomber]

Save your pennies when you go to Athens, in Euroland things are pretty expensive especially when you are out there a long time.

I have been on many charters to Euroland this year and your allowance goes in no time

[super737]

Possibly some of the more troublesome Q400s in the BE fleet (tech wise) will be moved out to ATH to improve on time performance and mx back in the UK.

[virginblue]

Possibly some of the more troublesome Q400s in the BE fleet (tech wise) will be moved out to ATH to improve on time performance and mx back in the UK.

Wouldn't that be extremely foolish to do? I am sure the contract with OA stipulates some performance guarantees - exactly to make sure that Flybe does not dump its scrap on an airline customer who is forking out a lot of money for Flybe's services?

[1830]

Good news about the greek contract. Its good to see Mr French and his team continuing to buck the trend and not lie down and accept the recession.
We have matt le tissier,george best and kevin keegan on our aircraft!
Can we petition for stavross flatley to go on one of the greek aircraft!!!:D

[mrmagooo]

Going on recent performance then lets hope they arnt sending brand spanking new ones....... They have been the among the worst performers

[Wycombe]

Looks like the Keegan and Le Tissier aircraft might need to be at the SOU base quite soon, if footy rumours are to be believed!

[1830]

is it true about jf and southampton fc??

[Maverick8701]

Not sure but I have also heard that rumour! About JF and Southampton I guess he knows Le Tissier as he is/was a "communities officer" for flybe in the channel islands..........we'll see I guess

[Bearpit]

Interesting PR spin to quote "extension of the brand" as a justification for wet-leasing to Olympic...when it is a wet-lease with all branding "Olympic".

Sounds far more like Flybe's growth has stalled and these a/c are not wanted!

[Cloud1]

Interesting theory........many airlines will likely find themselves with too many aircraft this winter as demand for flights gets weaker over the winter period anyway. Even if Flybe are slowing expansion and they need to get rid of aircraft this is a far better solution compared to leaving them on the ground parked up.

I think its a classic example of good business sense, something which many airline managers seem to be missing. The thing you have to remember is this is only until Sept 10 and they will then return to the fleet so I reckon if it was a case of getting rid of aircraft because they dont want them they would put them up for sale.

To clarify a few things that are incorrect on this topic, the aircraft will operate in Flybe colours. This is the current intentions - nothing to say it will not change but at the moment it is definately Flybe colours with staff in BE uniform. Does not seem to bother Olympic so it is very much a case of extending the BE brand even if its not actually BE operated services.

[airhumberside]

Extending the brand within the aviation industry, as opposed to the flying public maybe?

[NickBarnes]

I thought that the Aircraft were going to be in Olympic Air livery, but have smaller "Operated by Flybe" titles somewhere on it.:)

[flyer55]

Any update on Flybe's LGW base and what is in the pipeline ?

[flying_shortly]

Didn't Aer Arann do something similar for Flybe last year regards wet lease of aircraft?

May I suggest Flybe have taken inspiration from a genius Irish idea.... lol.

[chrystall]

sorry that comment was not directed at the athens contract - was referring to the flight support contract at manch - apologies for the confusion!!

[adfly]

new subject - can anyone tell me how many aircraft are in each base?(e195 and Q400)

[Buttie Box]

Hi folks

I was wondering if the contract in Greece would mean that there are cockpit crew employment opportunities coming up or just ensure the jobs of those there at the present. -400 driver seeks employment on different -400 closer to home.

All the best

BB

[speedrestriction]

BB,

Up to a year ago they would have bitten your hand off if looking to join as DEC. Things are a lot slower now but keep an eye on the recruitment section of the flybe website. Flybe have been and are extremely quick to react to business opportunities. When the right opportunity arises for the company the recruitment situation will change overnight.

sr

[Buttie Box]

Yeh, I'm kicking myself for not jumping about 15 months ago. Having done all I ever set out to do, I finally realised I liked flying. A DEC friend of mine with flybe got around 700 sectors last year. I got less than one per month.

There's more to it than that but as I'm in my 40's - and I'm sure a lot will disagree - it's a clear-headed, informed lifestyle choice for me. I'd much rather be doing short UK/EUR sectors on a turboprop feeling current than sitting in bad weather over darkest China getting 10 landings a year and having to reinvent the wheel every time I get airborne.

Well, breakfast awaits. Looking forward to joining Jim and the gang at the earliest opportunity.

BB:ok:

[OltonPete]

Fleet update from G-INFO (CAA) & Jethro's

G-FLBA Q400 delivered to BHX today

G-FLBB Q400 registered 3/7/09

G-ECOE Q400 intent to be restored to the UK register but this is one of the aircraft rumoured to be on it's way to Greece.

Pete

[Maverick8701]

Does anybody know what livery will be painted on the Dash's going to Athens? or will they stay in Fybe colours? Could see this has been discussed but people said different things.

[jimbo canuck]

It left Toronto today on delivery at 09:11 EDT
Jimbo

[FS01]

As far as I can tell the aircraft going to Athens will be in BE colours and staff will be in BE uniforms. The flights are to be operated under the BE AOC so essentially an extension of the flybe product. :ok:

[Devonair]

Will the BE staff be speaking Greek? I assume some Greek would be kind of necessary?

[Rollerboy]

I very much doubt very many of the BE staff can speak Greek. Although there maybe an Olympic representative on each flight that can.

Roller

[househunter]

Did Flybe get the ABZ - SCS route?

[j41cac]

No they didn't. I think Eastern retained it.

[Cloud1]

Hmmmm, not what I have heard. But I guess its all rumours until officially announced....one person says Eastern has it one says Flybe has it so who knows

[Maverick8701]

Haven't got a clue whos got it but my sources tell me that the IAC will announce mid July so would expect an announcement in the next couple weeks (these things are generally late) Anyway best of luck to everyone who bid.

[FS01]

Fourth IOM based Q400 from late October. A good move by Flybe. Will hopefully solve punctuality issues on this route.

[horsebox]

I believe Scasta is a 2 horse race between Flybe and Eastern.

Eastern have an interim contract after the demise of flightline until summer 2010. The current bidding is for a 5 year contract therafter.

An announcement by IAC is expected by August?

[CarbHeatIn]

I believe Scasta is a 2 horse race between Flybe and Eastern.

Despite the fact there was an ATR 72-500 carrying out flight tests at Scasta in recent weeks?

[virginblue]

Didn't British World use two ATR72-500 (G-OILA/B, IIRC) on oil contracts? Did they only operate into Sumburgh?

[Maverick8701]

In relation to the ATR's is that Aer Arran up there doing training flights? They have ATR 72-500's don't they?