FlyBe - 6

[MUFC_fan]

From winter Flybe will fly GLA/EDI-BHX eight times every weekday, mostly 195 with a few 175 flights chucked in for good measure. I'd imagine those are their main business routes.

[cornishsimon]

I heard an 'analyst' on TV at lunchtime saying that LGW NQY is their prime
business route. Does it make sense to give up those slots in exchange for a cash
injection? The answer is either that it's a well thought out strategy and
they've looked at the value of other routes where they may re-deploy the
aircraft, or they've sold the family jewels in a desperate attempt to stave off
the bailiff.

We will see in time. I don't like the airline, never have,
but for the sake of all the employees, I really hope this works for them.



Mind if I ask where you watched this ? Local or national tv ?


cs

[SealinkBF]

Noted that a few reports mention that FlyBe have several loss making routes out of Gatwick. Sadly no mention of said routes.

[Capetonian]

It was on the BBC regional news channel (968) for the Channel Islands which runs the SW local programme (Spotlight) after the national bulletin at lunchtime.

[GROUNDHOG]

JC25 agree with your speculation, would seem a logical step?

[WOWBOY]

BBC article stated they are 'reviewing there 13 UK bases'. How do people think Exeter will fair? It would be interesting if they did leave exeter and newquay. Aviation in the south west would be nil lol.

They are based in Exeter so doubt they would pull routes, but you never know.

[cornishsimon]

I would of thought that EXT would be safe ?


cs

[GLIDERMAN]

Story in the Daily Mail city section this morning, stating they would sell their Gatwick slots, but still maintain a presence at Luton?? Some presence!

[JC25]

WOWBOY - the very same BBC that mentioned the base review stated that there were bases in Cardiff, Doncaster and Bristol - none of which are bases! They also said that Flybe operate to EDI and GLA from LGW so I'd suggest that we take that particular article with a pinch of salt.

(The current BRS base is purely to operate the SN flights to/from there and will close if/when the SN contract ends or if it is altered to remove BRS. No BE flights are operated from the BRS "base").

[WOWBOY]

Yes BBC are very bad for reporting mis information.


I have been out the loop airline wise for year or more. I was wondering what the story regarding flybe operating to Orly from Southampton. Yet it's Charles de Gaulle from other airports?

Trail run for lower landing fees?

[ILS32]

Following the announcement that Jet2 will be withdrawing the BFS-LBA flights, Flybe have announced that they will be increasing their LBA-BHD flights with immediate effect.They will go to 4 times daily from 3 times daily by adding a mid afternoon service.

[ajamieson]

Yes BBC are very bad for reporting mis information.
Statistically? Is that a proven claim?

Or is it the sort of inaccurate, lazy, ill-informed assertion that you have just (correctly) criticized others for making?

Let's stick to the facts, please.

[BeViRAAM]

Calm down dear! Sticking to the facts, Flybe don't have bases in those places.

It is his opinion that the BBC are bad for reporting this incorrectly.

Maybe just a lazy assertion from you..............

[ajamieson]

Incoherent nonsense, BeViRAAM. That's not what he said at all, and opinion does not equal fact. Go back, read again, engage brain before posting.

[WOWBOY]

Yes it was my opinion, as in the past I have read many BBC articles relating to many subjects that have been badly written and provided wrong information. And I am allowed to have an opinion. S there!

There is nothing lazy about it. I have an opinion based on past experiences and I'm entitled to that. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it a lazy assertion!
:=

[ajamieson]

:ugh::ugh::ugh: Yes, but you stated your opinion AS IF IT WERE FACT which was my point. If you don't understand the difference (or that lack of attention to such detail = laziness) then you need to return your keyboard to an adult until such as time as you can contribute something meaningful.

Is this an aviation forum or a kindergarten? :ugh:

[SealinkBF]

It's a fact that the BBC get it wrong on occasion.

I am on another transport forum and they seem to choose pics at random to describe stories. So you'll see an InterCity 125 linked to a story about Pacer trains. Or a 747 linked to a Loganair story.

Remember this?

BBC mistakes cab driver for IT-expert - YouTube

[davidjohnson6]

People - I know it's an interesting topic but could you move a discussion of the accuracy of BBC reporting to a thread set up for that purpose ? Jet Blast might be a good location for it - plenty of people who wish to contribute to such a discussion will do so if the thre name has the letters "BBC" in it.

This thread by contrast is primarily for discussion of Flybe

[SealinkBF]

You're right of course.

So back to FlyBe :)

30 years of flights to Belfast City (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/flybe-to-mark-30year-milestone-29279231.html)

FlyBe's shrinking board (http://m.thisiscornwall.co.uk/story.html?aid=19043432)

[Akrotiri bad boy]

I'm planning a trip to Hungary using the Flybe/Air France tie up via CDG. Can anyone elaborate as to why the planned return leg on 13/09/2013 is almost twice the price of any other given Friday throughout the year? What's happening on that date, are Flybe trying to dissuade passengers from travelling on Friday 13th?:confused:

[78Whiskey]

Anyone know how MAN-WAT-MAN got on today for it's first trip?

I know it was delayed both ways but what about PAX?

[E75toDUS]

I'm planning a trip to Hungary using the Flybe/Air France tie up via CDG. Can anyone elaborate as to why the planned return leg on 13/09/2013 is almost twice the price of any other given Friday throughout the year? What's happening on that date, are Flybe trying to dissuade passengers from travelling on Friday 13th?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif


Sorry, I can't help you on the why, but I also see apparently random pricing for specific flights. I think it may be that they've done something like sold 30 seats to for a school exchange trip for one of the legs, which suddenly reduces availability, and BE are content to price high and try to fill the remaining seats with travellers insensitive to price (and pity the fools who find themselves on a small plane overrun with over-excited teens...).

Since you have a connection, try pricing the individual sectors if you haven't already. Maybe a longer layover in CDG can help?

If there is a major event, then the price will not come down and you need to decide whether to take the pain. If not, then only FlyBe know their pricing and I would expect any employee that tells you to get a serious telling off at minimum...

[beaufort1]

It's being reported this morning that Flybe have sold 25 slots at Gatwick and will cease their EGJB/EGKK route in March next year.

[SWBKCB]

Also:

Flybe also said that it has agreed with Embraer SA (EMBR3) to defer 16 E175 aircraft due in 2014 and 2015, and the models will not be delivered until 2017 to 2019, helping the carrier cut pre-delivery payment by 20 million pounds during the winter season of this year.

EasyJet to Pay 20 Million Pounds to Add Flybe?s 25 Gatwick Slots - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-23/easyjet-to-pay-20-million-pounds-to-add-flybe-s-25-gatwick-slots.html)

[GROUNDHOG]

One report says all the slots another some of the slots, so Newquay in the future or not from Gatwick:confused:?

[LGS6753]

The Stock Exchange announcement says all Gatwick slots. BEE will leave LGW.

[lfc84]

http://www.flybe.com/corporate/investors/presentations/Flybe-Fit-to-Compete-May-2013.pdf

[GEB74]

http://www.flybe.com/corporate/investors/presentations/Flybe-Fit-to-Compete-May-2013.pdf

Interesting piece of corporate flannel there lfc84! :ugh:
Are my eyes deceiving me or on page 22 of the flannel, (there is a graph showing fleet size split between aircraft type) does it look like they are losing 3 or 4 of the 195's from summer 14 onwards??
First I'd heard of this?
Or maybe the trainee Powerpoint junkie can't get his graph lines straight?:E

[Phileas Fogg]

loosing

At least, it seems, the "trainee Powerpoint junkie" can write/spell in the English language!

[pamann]

So do we yet have any idea as to if FlyBe are upping sticks and ditching the London area, or are we to expect an announcement on STN, SEN or LTN?

[Phileas Fogg]

Last edited by GEB74; 23rd May 2013 at 15:22. Reason: Spelling - To keep Mr Phileas Fogg (or should that be the badly stung powerpoint junkie?) happy.............................

Actually ... I'm living and working my successful business here ... Please try not to be too disappointed that I'm not peeking over an aerodrome fence someplace near to you to pass my time:

http://www.mynetbizz.com/pages/philippines/siargao-island-tour.jpg

[GEB74]

"Actually ... I'm living and working my successful business here ... Please try not to be too disappointed that I'm not peeking over an aerodrome fence someplace near to you to pass my time"

Foggy - Wind your touchy neck in! If you were peering over a UK aerodrome fence, you might have to look at my ugly mug!
If I was on a lovely Filipino Island or wherever it is your living and breathing successful business is:yuk:, then I'd have better things to do than fecking pull people up over their spelling on internet forums.................

Anybody have any thoughts on the query I raised?

[adfly]

Well it says Flybe are looking to develop some more year round leisure routes from SOU, so there's gonna be a need for at least 2/3 there plus the 1 based in EXT for its sun routes.

GLA and EDI routes from MAN, BHX and SOU also make good use of them as well as BHX/MAN-BHD probably work for at least another 6/7 there. BHD-LGW took up one, as did JER-LGW and there is almost always 1 or 2 sat @ BHX not doing much so its possible the fleet could be cut down by a few.

Of course ideally they would find a better use for them but if the worst comes to the worst it does seem that there is room for 2-4 to leave the fleet depending on how much they are needed.

[Tonyq]

I agree, that it appears that the E195 fleet will shrink by 4 or 5 in 2014/5. Looks like 36 Q400, 14 E175, 9 E195 by March 2016 = 59

Overall, I thought it was quite a clever spin on what is clearly a massive strategic retrenchment overall. Just look at where that 'number of aircraft line' should have been by 2016, and where it is actually planned to be now (p22).

[WOWBOY]

Gaurdian suggesting flybe coukd turn to London city.

Don't see it Happening myself.

[jethro15]

Order was for 35 a/c

Currently 09 in service
04 a/c due Autumn 13
That makes 13 in service at the end of 13
16 a/c deferred

That accounts for 29 a/c leaving 06 unaccounted for.

[pamann]

Hmmm... FlyBe with their low-cost model @ LCY. Can't see it myself. But aviation is a funny old place sometimes.

[davidjohnson6]

Flybe have not had a base at Gatwick for a while - all aircraft fly in from elsewhere in the morning, and fly back to other bases late evening. Luton is full until about 9 am, but after that seems to have a fair bit of spare capacity. How feasible would it be to replace Gatwick with Luton, first Luton arrival being 8:30 am and first Luton departure at 9 am ?
8:30 am Luton arrival would mean a departure from the regions about 7:30 am - perhaps early enough to be competitive with other transport options...

[kcockayne]

A senior Flybe 195 Captain told me several months ago that some of the a/c would be withdrawn from the fleet this year as, & when, their leases were up.
I don't suppose that the financial problems will have done anything to change the companies mind on this !

[Skipness One Echo]

Hmmm... FlyBe with their low-cost model @ LCY. Can't see it myself. But aviation is a funny old place sometimes.
Thing is, flybe aren't really low cost, in that the costs of their tickets are, well ....high. They do have a loooooong history of losing money at LCY as Jersey European though, so if they want to serve London, and that's a big if given the deferment of the ERJ-170s, it's LTN or STN. Yeah.....

[E75toDUS]

Thing is, flybe aren't really low cost, in that the costs of their tickets are, well ....high

Depends who you compare them to - when I fly with them, they are usually cheaper than the German competition. Prices only get really steep near the time (but still less than alternative).

Overall, I thought it was quite a clever spin on what is clearly a massive strategic retrenchment overall

I agree - but it is probably better to focus on routes where they can make their fleet and cost base work. For that reason I don't see any significant presence closer to LON than SOU. Where could they get a defensible advantage over EZY to a core base?

What do people make of the reduction in the E195s whilst still taking 175s? Is that because they have no choice to take the 175s or is there a compelling reason to have 175s over 195s?

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I believe the 195 leases were only for ten years, coming up to that soon for the first bunch.

They are taking 3 or 4 more little 'uns this year then deferring the rest until 2016 according to the latest gumpf. So not so much a replacement but more timing.

[G-JNHP]

the costs of their tickets are, well ....high

And to put it into context, in 2012 the passenger revenue (fare and ancillary) of BE UK was £565.6m and they carried ~7.6m passengers. As such, their average one-way fare (based on passengers and not seats), including ancillaries, was £74.42. (Excluding ancillaries, it was £60.70.) Given their strategic position and their broadly targeted customers, this average fare doesn't strike me as being particularly high. Of course, it looks worse given their their average sector length is short (466km, 290mi), hence their high yields.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Could be that the really high fares were never bought and paid for though. Just a thought.

[LXGB]

Norwich Airport boss offers support to struggling regional airline operator Flybe
Eastern Daily Press
Friday, May 24, 2013

Norwich Airport boss Andrew Bell pledged his support to struggling airline Flybe as it made fresh manoeuvres to cut its costs.

LINK (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/business/norwich_airport_boss_offers_support_to_struggling_regional_a irline_operator_flybe_1_2208673)

[PlymSpotter]

Only the Q400 could use LCY, the ERJ 175/195 are not certified for the steep approach. So I think it's rather unlikely.

[hampshireandy]

Cityflyer use the 170 and 190 into LCY, wouldnt the certification be the same for the 175 and 195?

[virginblue]

As the E175 and E195 are stretched variants of the baseline models, I guess they are more challenged performance-wise when operating from LCY. The E190 also requires some mods that result in a new "SR"-subvariant (the E170 only requires a software modifivation).

Don't see BE operating from LCY anyway. If LGW has become too expensive for them, how could a move to LCY make sense? LCY is - allegedly - one of the most expensive airports in Europe.

[Skystar320]

how could a move to LCY make sense? LCY is - allegedly - one of the most expensive airports in Europe.

Because LCY has more yeild in the airfare they can charge as its more business originated.

[virginblue]

I am aware of that. But it does not exactly fit Flybe's branding and if there are lucrative routes not served, why shouldn't BACF or Cityjet operate them as well established LCY carriers? The problem for BE is that they simply cannot dump a multi-aircraft operation on LCY as they will not have the necessary runway and apron slots to offer a decent schedule.

[Aero Mad]

Of course it's true that LCY is an expensive airport to operate into. However, we should bear in mind that BE (in the British European days) made much of its LCY losses using -300s and smaller Dash 8 variants; 78 seats on a quieter aircraft is significantly more attractive. In any case there are enough F50, AT4, D38 and DH8 operations from LCY (SI to JER, LG to LUX and EZ to BLL being notable successes) to prove that, although partly due to its runway capacity, the charging regime must make these sorts of ops viable given the inevitably higher yields.

Now I won't get into fantasy timetable land but the following destinations might work, given no current route from LCY and potential use by previous BE LGW passengers as well as some who had used competitors' services to other LON airports (notably LHR) as point-to-point services:

INV: Competition from U2 at LGW/LTN and BA at LHR.

BHD: Competition from U2 at LGW/LTN/STN/SEN, EI at LHR/LGW and BA at LHR.

NCL: Competition from BA at LHR.

GCI: Competition from GR at LGW/STN.

NQY: Competition (thrice weekly) from U2 at SEN.

These on the premise of specific demand by business passengers and a twice or thrice daily service with early morning and evening slots using aircraft based elsewhere. It would allow BE to keep a reduced but notable London presence with higher yields off a lower (DH8) cost-base.

[scr1]

INV: Competition from U2 at LGW/LTN and BA at LHR

INV has not had a BA LHR route since 1997, BMI did operate it for a couple of years a few years ago but has long gone. At the moment if you want to do a day trip to London from INV the BE to LGW is the only option. And their are quite a few business passengers that do this as well as a lot that go down on Monday morning and come back Friday night.

[virginblue]

I will ask again - how about slots at LCY to do all that?

The problem is that, IIRC, other than STN, there is no London airport where you can schedule a proper operation with, say, 3 or 4 flights to a new destination as there are no slots for arrivals between 0715-0815 (and the resulting departure times). Not at LHR, not at LCY, not at LTN.

[kcockayne]

Is it just me, or did I read an official Flybe press release stating that they were NOT going to operate from another "London" airport instead of Gatwick?

[lfc84]

my bet is that they will move to southampton

[Skipness One Echo]

Now I won't get into fantasy timetable land but the following destinations might work
Except you just did exactly that (!)
INV, BHD, NCL, and NQY have no connection to Canary Wharf and the City. BHD and NQY have both been tried before and both failed, Belfast very badly quite recently. NCL just about worked before the financial crash then once the sweetener route opening period was over, it just wasn't viable on a 29 seat J41. If they can't begin to fill a BE DHD from LGW that sits idle half the day, LCY is not going to make it better. INV will get left to the locos and the only one I think might be worth a bash, is Guernsey.

The issue here that might change matters is some form of sale or consolidation around the fate of CityJet.

[ajamieson]

The issue here that might change matters is some form of sale or consolidation around the fate of CityJet.Exactly.
And their [sic] are quite a few business passengers that do this as well as a lot that go down on Monday morning and come back Friday night.There are a few, but nowhere near enough required to make a peak-time slot to LCY or LHR viable.
NQY: Competition (thrice weekly) from U2 at SENMinor point, but one that bugs me: people keep citing this "route", but it only operates on a limited number of weeks within one season's timetable and even then it's only 3 times a week, and then again at varying times of the day (all of them useless). Barely worth mentioning, and certainly not meaningful competition to anyone operating a proper service.

[78Whiskey]

I see the schedule of WAT-MAN/BHX has changed on the weekly Wednesday flights to:

BHX 07:15 -WAT 08:30
WAT 08:55 - MAN 10:15
MAN 10:50 - WAT 12:10
WAT 12:35 - BHX 13:50

17-Jul-13 - 31-Jul-13

Any reason why or would it just planning ahead for some maintenance?

Does anybody know if WAT-LTN is in the pipeline at the moment?

--
--

Also on fligthglobal is that BE may be looking at switching the deferred E175's to the new re-engined versions, which may be available around 2018. Is there really any need for the Embraer's at all?

[adfly]

The Re-engined versions could be a good bet, presumably not too much more expensive than the current ones, plus better economics and also a slightly longer range would both benefit Flybe.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Wonder if they'll get a Dash equalling deal the next time though?!

[handsfree]

I've just printed out my boarding pass for a flight tomorrow from East Midlands to Paris CDG and was not asked for any Advanced Passenger Information. In fact the page stated that API was not required.

As I was at the airport this morning I thought I'd check with the check-in desk and he thought it odd but as I had a passport and boarding card not to worry.
Are flights to Paris exempt from API for some reason ?
Anyone know ?

[hampshireandy]

API only required on flights to Spain.

[handsfree]

Thanks for the reply hampshireandy and you are quite correct.
The reason I've always been asked in the past is that I've always booked a return back into the UK. The UK also require API.

Enjoyed the Dash 8 by the way.

[BOHEuropean]

You'll just have to wait until nearer the time, no one knows what's happening for now with regards to the 7 redundant aircraft come March and their respective crews.

[kcockayne]

Will there even be a Jersey base ?

[kcockayne]

Will there even be a Flybe ?

[BOHEuropean]

Give it a break.

Flybe is going through a massive restructuring plan. The difficult decisions they are and will make are for the greater good of the airline, to enable it to return to profitability and to enable it to drive forward in the future as a much more stable, reliable and respectable airline. Give it a chance, things don't change overnight. Comments like that are not nice for anyone connected to the airline, or the airline itself for when potential passengers see such stupid comments and are put off booking.

The airline has plenty of cash available to see it through this difficult period. It's nowhere near over yet. Details of base closures, further potential job losses or fleet changes are not known, why bother speculating, just wait and see what happens.

[Dontgothere]

People gave Aer Arann a lot of flack when it started to go up the swanney, and it would have been a lot harder for them, but they recovered slowly. Flybe is more likely to come out of the dark with all guns blazing... Now if only they'd get their flights to run on time, they may have more custom.

[Jack1985]

recovered slowly.

You call a 2 year full restructuring of a company, slow?

[Dontgothere]

Sorry, the first time I've really commented on aviation-based recovery...

[kcockayne]

BOHEuropean,

I was under the impression that this was a forum where one could discuss airlines, ask questions, get answers & make relevant points.
You, apparently are not of the same opinion !

Supposing that my opinion might JUST have some merit & be supported by facts, events , opinions & fears of staff who work for Flybe,then I have no intention of being silenced by you & told that I am killing off Flybe singlhandedly by making those points & asking relevant questions.

Certainly, only time will tell if Flybe will survive....& I genuinely hope they do. But, there IS a large question mark over what will happen to individual bases & the relevant crews; & to the Company itself.

To take both Guernsey & Jersey; From April next year they WILL lose their Gatwick flights & there is very little prospect of the Embraers being put unto the Southampton run. &, even if there was, what would then happen to the Dash 8 crews? So, something has got to give there !

This IS, therefore, a legitimate line of questioning. I hardly think that by raising it I am frightening off potential customers to the extent that the airline will collapse. Rather, is it not the case that Flybe themselves are frightening them off by removing the Gatwick flights ? Does this not indicate a pretty dire state of affairs & deter would be customers?

They are certainly frightening their own employees by doing this ! Furthermore, the employees can hardly have too much confidence in the Management restructuring of the airline which is being carried out by...? The same Management who got the airline into this position in the first place !

They surely cannot obtain much reassurance that the Management are on the right track when they see the Company announce, first - that they will NOT use the Embraer on Guernsey to Gatwick; then, that they will; &, then, two months later - that the route will be abandoned. Pretty good joined up thinking & decision making there !

&, what of Gatwick itself?

One of the Company's busiest & most important destinations sold for £20m. They MUST have been pretty desperate to get their hands on the cash !

I know that some of this is controversial & will only be determined in the fullness of time. But, in the meantime there are a lot of employees asking these very questions & wondering whether the Management has the ability to arrive at the correct answers.

They hope that they do....& so do I. But I am not going to avoid asking questions & making relevant points because you don't like it.

[22/04]

Don't think LGW could reasonably fit in Flybe's future- it can fill itself with A320s and B737s and bigger serving London high density movements. No more a place for regional jets and turboprops in future than LHR.

I would like to see Flybe have London presence for Channel Island and regional routes and they could do worse than look at LTN, STN or SEN - or even being whacky OXF.

But of they have a future ( and I'm not sure) the focus must be on EXT, NWI, SOU etc. Even BHX and MAN are tricky though there is a niche on business intense low capacity routes.

The future is London Airways, Orange and Harps I am afraid- the others must tread vey carefully.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

To take both Guernsey & Jersey; From April next year they WILL lose their Gatwick flights & there is very little prospect of the Embraers being put unto the Southampton run. &, even if there was, what would then happen to the Dash 8 crews? So, something has got to give there !



A lot of what you say is relevant. Sadly the 'management' seem to be only too willing to strip assets rather than improve the business. What are they going to sell off next year to keep the bottom line in the black?!

I agree that the Embraer is unlikely on the CI to SOU route but if it did happen and they based an Embraer locally then the local CI crews would be type rated on the Embraer.

[davidjohnson6]

I think you may be looking at the sale of Gatwick slots from a narrow viewpoint.

As an analogy, think of Flybe and Gatwick as 2 neighbours each living in a really nasty tower block that has been left to rot for years. Gatwick had a few hard times and has borrowed some money from Flybe over the years, promising to pay it back. One Saturday,Gatwick bought a lottery ticket, all the numbers came up and Gatwick is now rich.Gatwick no longer cares a damb about their neighbour Flybe. Gatwick pays the IOUs to Flybe, buys a mansion in a nice area and tells Flybe it is no longer a friend and not welcome at Gatwick's new mansion. Flybe is not happy but cannot do anything about it except get on with life.

The £20m represents the IOUs and the new landing fees represents Gatwivk telling Flybe to p*ss off.

I doubt Flybe wanted to cash in the slots but Gatwick's landing fees meant it was a case of selling up instead of incurring even more long term losses.

[A4]

Or it's more a case of being asset rich and cash poor. Like a spinster who lives in a 5 bedroom house in Knightsbridge which she bought in 1950 for £1000 and it's now worth £2.5 million - but she can't afford to pay all,the bills to run it. But she could sell it, scale down and live very comfortably.

Flybe have just realised their asset, they're going to scale down (cheaper airports) - but I'm not sure it will make life more comfortable in the long run. They still have all the other bills to pay - just the rent is slightly reduced.....it's a catch 22. You need to be in the places people want to go to/from to generate the revenue but it's expensive to be there - no different to being on Bond Street in London really. So you have to go high-price niche or "stack'em'high, sell'em'cheap". Which is Flybe? - now or in the future.

Tough times.

[Barling Magna]

MAG might well welcome flyBE to Stansted. Southend is keen to diversify from EZY and RE operations. Oxford is desperate for successful services. Cambridge is seeking operators. If flyBE wanted to take a punt then there are four airports which would welcome them with open arms and charge them considerably less than LGW........

[Lord Spandex Masher]

David, that begs the question why would they put up with the higher landing fees for so long? It's not as if they went up the day before they sold their slots is it.

[sxflyer]

Barling, of those STN is the only realistic option for a replication of the LGW operation but as yet there are is little indication it would happen. I think the routes from the north and probably NQY would do OK, but JER & GCI at high frequency would be dead in the water - BA have good frequency to a more convenient airport with connections available, SI have the premium City pax and EZY the price sensitive JER-based pax and a chunk of the leisure pax north of the Thames. Of course, if MAG did manage to sign up Emirates or equivalent for STN the story might be slightly different, but I couldn't ever see more than a couple of flights per day. So, aside from the limited LTN operation, flybe in London would seem finished.

CBG and OXF would only ever by niche outposts serving a local community on the basic AMS/EDI type runs

[Barling Magna]

Yes, you're probably right. Maybe a handful of routes from STN and SEN might be viable for them, but no replication of their LGW operation seems possible in the (greater) London area so maybe they will go back to their roots as 22/04 suggested and concentrate on Exeter, NWI, SOU and BHX...?

[davidjohnson6]

Spandex - after Gatwick hiked up the charges, Flybe appealed to the CAA as economic regulator to do something about the charges. The CAA in giving their formal opinion basically said it was a shame for Flybe but the CAA couldn't / wouldn't do anything about it. Once the CAA's written and final decision was announced on 17 January 2013, it was inevitable that Flybe had to do something more radical. BA selling cheaper tickets at Gatwick for those without hold baggage earlier this year made Flybe's life even harder.

Respect to Flybe management- they did not give up on Gatwick slots without a fight, but the battle was ultimately lost.

On a related note, the share price is back down at the level before rumours about the Gatwick slot sale began circulating (about 4 weeks before the formal announcement with Easyjet). Is there some more bad news waiting to come out about Flybe ?

[Set 1013]

I suspect it is the dip before the full year (12-13) financial results are released on Friday!:} watch them fall like a lead ballon then.

[Cloud1]

kcockayne (http://www.pprune.org/members/155823-kcockayne)

As a former employee, one might think I have lost interest in the company however it is not the case. I have many friends that work there and as such, want the company to succeed thus providing my friends with a life, a family and financial support needed. They are the "lucky" ones in that they are still there working hard to keep things ticking over.

I agree that the current Management team leading the restructuring had, possibly and one could argue this, a large involvement in putting where Flybe is today. Whether that includes the negative side of the company, or you look at all the airlines achievements is up to you. However what I would say is that having 40 years experience in an industry does not necessarily mean you are the very best in it as times change and modern ways of thinking, doing things and technology ultimately take over. These are a lot of Flybe's problems I believe. Although with the turn around, there are Management who are more than capable of bringing Flybe back to profit and they are in different, more influential roles now.

You say that Flybe's decisions are frightening their employees - I can only go by my own observations and yes, again to an extent this is true but only when looking at it in a little bit of a tunnel visioned sort of way. There may be a feeling from some that the wrong assets have been removed in terms of the restructure (staff) but everyones views are different. I have not however heard anyone yet show concern over LGW - why would they? £20 million towards the turn around plan thank you very much. If the routes are not making money, get rid - the company isnt a charity.

We can only wait and see what happens on this one :ok:

[davidjohnson6]

MP for Caithness & Sutherland (far north of Scottish mainland) reports that Vince Cable has agreed to consider referring the Gatwick-Easyjet slot sale to the Competition Commission.

[Facelookbovvered]

Don't see any mileage in this for the competition authority, yes the sale will give EZ near on 50% of all LGW slots, but Flybe want out, if the North of Scotland want flights to LGW then they should start by binning APD that has done so much damage to Flybe, let them drive or catch the train or add flights to the growing list of subsides that keeps Scotland living in dream land at the expense of London.

Flybe is caught between a rock and a hard place, it cannot compete with the likes of Easy, FR but its scale of operations is to big to be a niche operator like bmir or Eastern, i see major cuts going forward, the going rate for a flight A 2 B across Europe is probably no more than £80 unless your at a major hub (or need to be) £80 doesn't get you far with Flybe

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "MP for Caithness & Sutherland (far north of Scottish mainland) reports that Vince Cable has agreed to consider referring the Gatwick-Easyjet slot sale to the Competition Commission. "

Sounds very unusual, is this because U2 is the sole carrier on LGW-INV?

Haven't heard of this happening on other routes where one of two operators comes off the route (e.g. BD off LHR-GLA in 2011), apart from the case of the "remedy slots" when BA bought BD, but that was LHR-slot specific and would not apply to LGW.

[davidjohnson6]

Lord Thurso (yes, hereditary peer who is an MP) has said publicly he has concerns over Easyjet neing the monopoly airline on Inverness-London (not just Gatwick). Unless another airline shows up, Guernsey and Newquay would also both have a monopoly airline on their London routes after late March 2014

Lord Thurso and Vince Cable are both longstanding LibDems.

[Anodyne]

A whiff of hypocrisy? - The Lib-Dems and the so called ‘green’ policies they espouse are part of the reason for the lack of runway capacity in the South East, that has created the supply and demand situation, that allows the airports to charge the high prices, that have driven Flybe off these routes. - or have I got that wrong?

[ScotsSLF]

" to the growing list of subsides that keeps Scotland living in dream land at the expense of London"

Facelookbovvered - I know this is off topic but I really need to know what this growing list is. Please PM me as this is one of the most bizarre 'chip on shoulder' comments I have ever come across on PPrune.

[IOMspotter]

Flybe cuts jobs and wages as losses soar
21st June 2013

inShare
Share:By Andy Coyne - Editor, West Midlands

LOW cost airline Flybe - the largest carrier in terms of flight volume at Birmingham Airport - has seen its losses increase dramatically.

Announcing its preliminary results for the year to March 31, the airline reported a loss before tax of £40.7m (2011/12: loss of £6.2m).

And the firm is getting rid of a fifth of its workforce in an attempt to turn its fortunes around.

Flybe, which is in the middle of a restructuring process, said the results are in line with expectations.

And revenue under management for the year was up by 15.1% to £781.5m.

Flybe says it is making progress with 'Delivery and Future Direction', the package of measures it has implemented in order to return its UK based businesses to profitability.

It says its target cost savings of £25m under phase 1 of the turnaround plan have been exceeded, with £30m of annual cost savings now secured for year 2013/14 onwards.

Phase 2 of the plan is now being implemented, targeting a further £10m of savings in 2013/14, rising to around £20m from 2014/15. This would take total annual cost savings to some £50m from 2014/15 onwards.

The airline’s UK based head count is being reduced by more than 20% and Flybe says it has reached an agreement in principle with the British Airlines Pilots Association for up to a 5% reduction in salary in return for extra time off.

The turnaround plan is being financed in a number of ways including the transfer of arrival and departure slots at London Gatwick Airport to easyJet for £20m, subject to a simple majority shareholder approval.

Jim French CBE, Flybe's chairman and chief executive officer, said: "Flybe has exceeded its target of taking out £25m from its cost base during 2013/14 and will deliver around £40m in savings in this current financial year, expected to rise to £50m annualised savings from 2014/15 onwards.

“In the last few months we have streamlined the business, reducing UK-based headcount by more than 20%. We have also made major progress in reducing the cost of our supplier base.

''Our results for 2012/13, while expected, are nonetheless disappointing. During the year, we have taken difficult decisions as part of our turnaround plan, which have affected all our people. Challenging as they have been, these decisions were critical to ensuring the future success of Flybe.

"As outlined above, our turnaround plan has involved considerable efforts to reduce the cost base of the business. Inevitably, and sadly, this process has to date involved the departure of around 490 people from the business. We do not underestimate the effect of these difficult decisions on those staff leaving and the friends and colleagues that they leave behind.”

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "A whiff of hypocrisy? - The Lib-Dems and the so called ‘green’ policies they espouse are part of the reason for the lack of runway capacity in the South East, that has created the supply and demand situation, that allows the airports to charge the high prices, that have driven Flybe off these routes. - or have I got that wrong?"

Sounds spot-on to me!

Would say more "rank" hypocrisy than "a whiff of" hypocrisy.

[Hangar6]

Odd to read low cost airline flybe......
I believe staff were very lucky they didn't get involved with FR , still tough times but good luck any airline flying so many empty seats so often to DUblin on a daily year round basis clearly has a secret hoard of cash to burn , but not a low cost airline. Mgmt are the issue in Flybe , maybe tie for a change ?

[BCALBOY]

Daily Mail are reporting today in an article about latest Flybe financial results that they have recently quit LGW ! Not great PR as they don't stop until end of Winter 2013/14 at end of March .Should Be not sue DM for damage to their business ?

[davidjohnson6]

BCALBOY - going to the courts over a journalistic mistake seems a little drastic. If Flybe were to sue, they can forget about any articles in the Mail's travel section ever mentioning Flybe in a positive way again

[dublinaviator]

What does it matter, they're leaving LGW either way. They created the bad PR themselves when they announced the pull out to begin with.

[BCALBOY]

I think it matters a lot,they have a lot of flights to fill for the next 10 months and its not very helpful if a national newspaper is reporting they have already pulled out !

[IOMspotter]

and now IOM SOU is being dropped with just 14 days notice...............:{

[gearupflapsupshutup]

Saad Hammad

[Whispering Giant]

Flybe Group plc

("Flybe" or "the Group")


Appointment of Chief Executive Officer



The Board of Flybe is pleased to announce the appointment of Saad Hammad as Chief Executive Officer with effect from 1 August 2013. He will bring considerable airline, commercial and business transformation experience to Flybe.
As Chief Commercial Officer of easyJet plc from October 2005 to April 2009, Mr Hammad was credited as being the architect and driving force behind the airline's commercial transformation, delivering significant revenue growth and margin enhancement and creating the European network which formed the basis of building easyJet into one of Europe's most successful airlines.
Mr Hammad was also, between May 2011 and October 2012, a non-executive Director of Air Berlin plc, the second largest airline in Germany with c€4bn in revenue, where he was a member of the Finance Committee.
Mr Hammad is currently a Managing Director at the Gores Group, an operations-focused private equity firm with c.$4bn under management, where he has been responsible for leading operational due diligence efforts across Europe as well as working with portfolio company executive teams to achieve full operational potential.

Previously, Mr. Hammad held a number of leadership positions in brand management, sales and marketing and retailing at Procter & Gamble, Thorn-EMI, Vision Express and the Minit Group and was Managing Director - Europe at Tibbett & Britten, the leader in consumer product logistics where he led a major business turnaround. Between August 2007 and March 2009, Mr Hammad was a director of Optos plc.

He spent three years with the Boston Consulting Group in London where he worked with the top management of leading corporations primarily in consumer-goods and retailing on developing growth strategies and driving operational improvement programmes.

Mr. Hammad holds a BA (Hons) in Politics, Philosophy and Economics from Oxford University and an MBA from INSEAD.

Jim French, CBE currently Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Flybe, will become non-executive Chairman, also with effect from 1 August 2013.

Mr French commented:

"We are delighted to welcome Saad to Flybe. He brings with him a wealth of industry experience as well as a track record of leadership and Board positions across a range of public and private businesses and we are very much looking forward to working with him.
"Flybe has recently updated the City on the significant progress made in its major turnaround plan which is on track to deliver over £50m in long-term cost savings and has generated over £40m in cash to fund the transition.
"The next key elements of the plan are to capitalise on its revised competitive low cost-base and Flybe's strong brand profile.
"The Board is delighted that Saad is joining Flybe and we look forward to working with him and supporting him in taking the airline forward to the next stage in its development.

Saad Hammad added:

"I am very much looking forward to the opportunity of building on what has already been achieved under Jim's stewardship and also on the firm foundations for commercial improvement which he and the Board have made so far this year.
"Flybe is making excellent progress on its turnaround plan. The business is once again 'fit to compete' and, with further opportunities to drive its competitive advantages, I look forward to leading Flybe into a new and exciting era."
Flybe confirms that there is no further information which is required to be disclosed pursuant to paragraph 9.6.13 of the UK Listing Rules.



3 July 2013

[adfly]

It seems Flybe have started to 'push' Southampton as an alternative to the London airports in some of the papers in fitting with what was said in their restructuring plan.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/355428677779070976/photo/1

[Fairdealfrank]

LONDON-SOUTHAMPTON AIRPORT

Guess it was inevitable!

[Rivet Joint]

Why not advertise SOU as an alternative to LGW for people in the Southern counties? Great transport links together with a super efficient check in means time wise at least it is a viable option. The motorway is at the end of the runway for a start and I can't imagine there being an airport anywhere else in the world that has a train station closer to the terminal (you can see the door of the terminal from stepping of the train). With the Airport's longstanding motto being 'breeze' it may well be that using the airport could even result in a time saving over using LGW. If we were talking about some backwater landing strip such as Hurn as an alternative then of course the idea would be far fetched. Don't write of SOU just yet though, if BE get the marketing right then it could mitigate the withdrawal from LGW.

[TSR2]

LONDON-SOUTHAMPTON AIRPORT

Whatever next ..... LONDON-BLACKPOOL AIRPORT !

[insuindi]

London-Birmingham springs to mind, takes the train the same time to get from Euston to BHX as Waterloo to SOU.

[OltonPete]

Have flybe changed from the fixed schedule release ie twice year when the clocks go forward or back to what most schedule airlines do and you can book 330 days in advance or 10 months in GDS?

I have never noticed this before but GDS is showing (and their website) flights available to mid-May 2014.

The post late March schedule seems to be a copy of the winter 2013/4 schedule in the vast majority of cases.

I assume far too early to say where the Jersey, Guernsey and Inverness 175's are going?

Looks as if flybe are still tight on aircraft with a few cancellations again this week (outside of the summer business flight reductions) and they used the Cello/Chervon RJ85 from BHX to Jersey and back yesterday?

Pete

[Mr A Tis]

Anyone else having problems with the Flybe website today? Pages are loading so slow, I've given up & booked with Lufthansa.

[Dontgothere]

Quelle horreur! London Norwich airport!?!! I can only imagine that people will be disappointed when they are left off in the turnip fields and 100 miles away from London...

[Rivet Joint]

Blackpool and Norwich are two further backwater airports just like Bournemouth who's operations can be likened to the proverbial turd that just keeps itself above the water. You are missing the point that Southampton has more than just close proximity to LGW going for itself when it comes to providing a sizeable base for BE in the south of England.

[OltonPete]

I have had a quick look at GDS and the flybe timetable and there have been changes and some seem in line with the rumours on here.

I can only find 10 operational 195's this winter (one spare and 3 to go?).

2 at BHX, SOU, EDI, GLA & 1 at MAN & EXT.

175's - 3 x BHX, 1 x BHD (new), 2 x MAN, 2 x INV, 1 x JER & 1 x GCI.

It appears 2 x 195 removed from BHD and replaced with a 175 and Q400.

BHX BE401/2 and 415/6 now Q400's down from 195's and BE405/5/9/12 are 175's down from the 195. Good news for easyjet BHX-BFS which is increasing.

Both these aircraft do Gatwick in the reverse so LGW will get the Q400 on two of their four BHD flights unless another 175 becomes available through delivery.

Other BHX changes see INV back to the Q400 with the 175 going to Aberdeen mid morning. The 175 also back on Milan as expected with the 195 going to EDI instead in the afternoon and the extra Q400 (8th flight) EDI- BHX and GLA-BHX is scrapped.

Southampton - Amsterdam is showing 4 a day in the week but all Q400.

Pete

[78Whiskey]

Hey,

Does anybody have any information as to how the WAT and SNN routes are doing?

Thanks

[cloudier]

do not know about wat but SNN very poor 31 pax per flight

[mart901]

In June BHX was 1600 (47 per flight), MAN 1009 (29 per flight), MAN hasn't really had long to get going and I daresay no LON services from WAT is helping BHX with its quick direct rail link. MAN was historically the busier of the two when EIR/RE ran them.

[kcockayne]

OltonPete,
Maybe it's because the 195s are being phased out as their leases expire.

[OltonPete]

kcockayne

Are the leases expiring or being taken over or paid up early?

The first 195 arrived in 2006, which makes it 7 years in September. Are they all on seven year leases or are each aircraft on different lengths?

Can anyone give any insight to end of leases and if there are roll-over provisions and if these are yearly or more?

I believe some or most the Q400's are/were on 10 year leases?

Pete

[Whispering Giant]

The early 195's were on 7 year leases.

[Tonyq]

The recent results presentation (slide 24) shows the E195 fleet progessively reducing between 9/14 and 3/16 by 4 (or maybe 5) aircraft.

http://www.flybe.com/corporate/pdf/FY13-Flybe-Group-Full-Year-Results-Presentation.pdf

[Whispering Giant]

Found this press release to the Stock exchange sent out this morning.



Flybe Group plc

("Flybe" or "the Company")

Directorate and management


Following the separation of roles between Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, with the appointment of Saad Hammad as CEO and the move to non-executive Chairman by Jim French with effect from 1 August 2013, the Board of Flybe announces a restructuring of the Board and senior management changes.

Paul Simmons will join the Company as Chief Commercial Officer with effect from 28 October 2013 and will report directly to Mr Hammad.

Mr Simmons joins from easyJet where he was Director, UK Market since returning to the airline in 2009 and was responsible for the commercial programme and revenue delivery across its eleven bases and 110 aircraft in the country, playing a lead role in transforming the UK from one of the airline's worst performing territories to one its strongest. Mr Simmons was originally at easyJet from 2006-2008 as Head of Brand Marketing, Product & Distribution and oversaw the launch of the airline's business traveller programme. Additionally, Mr Simmons has held various senior management roles at Dubai Parks & Resorts, Oberoi Group and InterContinental Hotels.


Mark Chown (Director of Corporate Strategy) Mike Rutter (Managing Director: Flybe Outsourcing Solutions) and Andrew Strong (Managing Director: Flybe UK) will step down from the Board with immediate effect. They will continue to report to Saad Hammad.


Andrew Knuckey, Chief Financial Officer since 2007, has decided it is an appropriate time to step down from the Board and leave the Company as soon as a successor can be appointed and a suitable handover period has been completed. Mr Knuckey, who is looking to pursue a number of finance opportunities, played a lead role in the acquisition and integration of BA Connect in 2007, the IPO on the London Stock Exchange in 2010 and, more recently, the design and implementation of the first phases of the turnaround plan. The Board wishes him and his family well for the future and also thanks him for his major contribution over the last eight years.



5 August 2013

[davidjohnson6]

Flybe | Corporate | About Flybe | Company history (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/investors/regulatory_news.htm)
(follow the link dated 08 August 2013)

As is common when a company gets a new CEO, there is to be a full review of operations.

Looking particularly at Flybe UK being the dominant part of the airline, for the 3 months up to 30 June 2013, and comparing against the same period in 2012
Seats flown - down 1.6%
Passengers - up 4.9%
Load factor - up 4.3%
Cost per seat - down 1.9%
So far, so good - reducing capacity a little and filling more seats of the remaining flights and lowering the cost to fly a seat.

However
Passenger revenue (i.e. average fare multiplied by number of passengers) - down 1.8%
Passenger yield - down 6.4%

The UK economy seems to be slowly picking up from the effects of the 2008 recession, Flybe has tightened up a little on seat capacity, and the number of passengers and load factor has increased
I understand that Flybe is dropping fares slightly to increase passenger numbers but I'm not sure I understand why revenue and yield is down so much. Anyone able to give a good explanation for this ?

[Hangar6]

Just my speculation maybe
Extra pax are low fare code share pax
Flybe always had low LF around 62% so plenty room on each flight
Recession hits high fare business pax hardest the finance folk doing day trips IOM EDI LON etc
FLYbe have loads of bases so less capacity at these multiple bases may push pax to core airports away from flybe
Maybe SOu cruise activity hit by good weather at home?
They have a tough time ahead for sure and the very early release of LGW closure cannot have helped regular business traveller forward plans

[Bagso]

The tie in to the new Thomas Cook long haul hub at Manchester will help !

[Jamesair]

I think cruise passengers tend to make their bookings many months in advance. More important is Cunard introducing a lot more fly- cruising starting in the Med this year and next which will mean less passengers sailing out of Southampton.

[Flitefone]

The cruise market is a red herring. Cruise passengers often choose to cruise because they either cannot or do not want to fly.

Those that do fly may prefer to either fly to the sun then cruise, or fly home.

Cruise routes are usually Barbados, Miami, Los Angeles, Seattle and Vancouver and closer to home, Rome, Venice Athens, Barcelona and Palma, not a big market for Flybe either way. For most of the UK population SOU is a train ride away for holidaymakers. So domestic routes are not likely to benefit much either.

What will be interesting will be the impact of the new flybe board and the on- going review. My bet is that a significant portion of the LGW routes will go sooner rather than at the end of the winter schedule as previously announced. There is not a great deal of point in operating loss making routes if profitability is a goal.

That might offer SOU some upside as capacity will be released for extra rotations on routes like SOU
to EDI and DUB.

FF

[cornishsimon]

Which LGW route are unprofitable and likely to be dropped before the announced date ?

cs

[davidjohnson6]

Simon - the Newquay routes both from Gatwick and also Manchester are real black holes for Flybe - better get used to the idea of them closing pretty soon. I very much doubt the seasonal routes from Belfast, Newcastle or Edinburgh will be baclk next summer.

.... sits back and waits for a reaction from cs.... :-)

[Artic Monkey]

David
Not sure that's correct actually, the NQY-MAN performs very well and load factors are very good, however, not one route operated into LGW makes money due to the high charges there. I can't see any LGW route being dropped before the announced pull off.

[davidjohnson6]

Does nobody have a sense of humour any more ? CornishSimon seems perpetually concerned about who is or isn't flying from Cornwall's only airport (ie Newquay). Can't we have just a little bit of fun winding him up ever so slightly... ?

[Bagso]

More details on the Thomas Cook tie up.

It seems that many long haul flights will switch to DE codeshares, (Condor) which in turn appear on the main travel booking portals.

By re timing long haul wave to depart after 11am this will help connections from NI, Scotland, Norwich and although a 1215 arr from Newquay is a tad late...

Can only see this helping Flybe and is something they have long needed !

[adfly]

I guess the Thomas Cook tie-up could be seen as a better connected 'replacement' for their feeding of BA/VS at LGW (although the latter offer a better selection of destinations/frequency's on the long haul side).

[Skipness One Echo]

Can only see this helping Flybe and is something they have long needed !
What % of the revenue are they getting? Feeding traffic to a third party long haul operator is a tricky gig at the best of times. It's not a long haul hub btw, it's really, really not.

[Bagso]

G' Day as ever Skippy

was merely re-quoting local rag......

No idea re revenues simply looking at this in the round.

If you normally carry 30 pax but end up carrying 35 by virtue of this type of deal it must assist mitigating cots.

[JobsaGoodun]

What will be interesting will be the impact of the new flybe board and the on- going review. My bet is that a significant portion of the LGW routes will go sooner rather than at the end of the winter schedule as previously announced. There is not a great deal of point in operating loss making routes if profitability is a goal.

Personally I think this unlikely as Flybe will have to fly the routes to protect their grandfather rights on the slots to be able to pass them to easyJet, unless of course there is an agreement from easyJet, or a need for them to take the slots sooner. I think it possible that Flybe may drop capacity on the LGW routes utilising smaller aircraft to protect yields rather than chasing volume on these routes where they can.

[davidjohnson6]

Over the last 12 months, I've found that Flybe have been quite aggressive in cancelling flights a few weeks in advance, presumably because someone in revenue management decided in advance the flight would not be profitable (have looked at CAA stats to confirm likelihood of my suspicions).
Satisfies EU261 but does not satisfy passengeras with cancelled flight who are told there is no reroute possibility and their only option is a refund !

I know budget holiday charters have merged 2 flights into 1 in the past, but is this something new specifically to Flybe in the last year or is this long established practice ?
The only times I've seen this regularly in the past with scheduled carriers has been with airlines that are under significant stress over financial stability and have a strong need for cash, often ending up suspending all flying...

[hampshireandy]

One of the reasons that ive gone from using Flybe 2 or 3 times per year to never trusting them enough to ever book a flight with them again.

[bmaviscount]

Recently tried out this new Jet service to GCI. Have Flybe squandered the experience on this aircraft or is it normal for the E175, namely
1. Seats out of line with the windows so you have to crane your neck
2. Very tight seat pitch
3. Applying very stringent weight and balance so that people are forcibly sat together leaving rows empty. Does position of passengers really affect operation?

Can officianados shed any light re the Embrear and Flybe?

[adfly]

The seats out of line with the windows is probably due to an extra row of seats compared to most E175's, I believe the E195's also have this problem in some places. The seats and seat pitch should be the same 30' it is in the E195's which despite being 6ft tall I've always found acceptable even on Flybe's longer sectors.

[virginblue]

Not sure if it has to do with weight and balance - could just as well have to do with educating passengers to fork out some money and pay for an advance seat reservation....

[E75toDUS]

The seats out of line with the windows is probably due to an extra row of seats compared to most E175's, I believe the E195's also have this problem in some places. The seats and seat pitch should be the same 30' it is in the E195's which despite being 6ft tall I've always found acceptable even on Flybe's longer sectors.

Agree the seat alignment is poor - it feels like very few of the seats and windows line up. I guess the windows spacing is on the basis of 31" or 32". It's obviously not palatial but as a weekly Flybe passenger, I remember being struck by how much tighter (and shabbier) a TCX 757 was, and you might be wedged in that down to the Canaries or Sharm.

Not sure if it has to do with weight and balance - could just as well have to do with educating passengers to fork out some money and pay for an advance seat reservation....

I think the check-in algorithm is just a bit nuts. On one emptier flight a few weeks ago, nearly everybody was sat in A or B seats. And there doesn't seem to be a really noticeable distribution towards the back or front (like you see on the Q400).

[ajamieson]

]Not sure if it has to do with weight and balance - could just as well have to do with educating passengers to fork out some money and pay for an advance seat reservation....
Actually, weight and balance frequently means Flybe does not honour or refund pre-paid seat assignments. I've seen people burned by this many, many times.

[Cloud1]

If pre-assigned seats cannot be honoured, refunds are granted.

[davidjohnson6]

Flybe have a big banner on the website homepage saying flights can now be booked until 15 July 2014

I'm aware that there's a CEO-driven significant review of the business going on at the moment which presumably will lead to various changes in the airline. I'm also aware that Flybe have a reputation of cancelling unprofitable flights with only a few weeks notice - while legal according to EU261, this does not make for a happy passenger when he/she has other arrangements that depend on a particular flight operating.

Right now, a lot of the S14 schedule looks to be an exact copy of the S13 schedule. I'm suspicious that there is almost no variation in S14 to handle cases where a route performed above or below expectations in S13

Can someone *knowledgeable* suggest when it's safe to book flights in the expectation that network and schedule planning has stabilised ? I'm guessing by early December plans for summer 2014 should be moderately stable, but it would be helpful to have input from someone whose opinion is based on more than just a finger in the air.

[Nakata77]

Actually it seems possible to book August 2014 too. They must be really in need of revenue. The problem is that far out it is impossible to guarantee schedules and perhaps this is what causes the frequent flight time changes with Flybe which I am also pis*ed off with. I now also do not book them but it's more to do with delays rather than flight cancelations.

Summer 2014 seems identical to Summer 2013 for SOU, daily on NTE, EGC AGP, ALC from July 7th and 5 or 6 weekly on PMI, FAO.

Kind of giving Ryanair a head start on what to plan from BOH though.

[ajamieson]

If pre-assigned seats cannot be honoured, refunds are granted.
Incorrect, I'm afraid. Flybe keeps the money. It does say in the T&Cs that the seat may need to be changed for operational reasons (which is why I would never pay).

A family member has had seats reassigned four times for trim and had been refused a refund each and every time.

On the plus side, this has finally persuaded her not to fall for this ancillary revenue trap in future.

[Cloud1]

If we want to be picky T&Cs state:

Once seats are pre-booked and payment has been made charges are non-refundable. Exceptions to this are a) if the seats are not provided or.....

I would suggest your family members did not actually contact the correct department for a refund or the situation was not as clear cut as it sounds and there was much more to it.

Also if a New Eco or Plus ticket is bought where ASA is included there is no refund as no amount is applied for seats on their own.

[Flightrider]

Wouldn't it be easier if Flybe simply sorted out the seating problem, which was a source of irritation for their customers? I got absolutely fed up of a 40% load on a Q400 all being shoe-horned into the first two and last four rows and cannot believe that the weight and balance would be materially different if the distribution was slightly more even. The one thing which most passengers like, alongside going on time and arriving with their bag, is to have a seat free next to them. There is no guarantee of getting this if you pay for it, but it strikes me that they could improve their customer perception at a stroke by sorting out the half-assed DCS system and stop the crew from telling passengers that the aircraft is "trim sensitive" which means nothing to your average punter.

Instead of discussing the customer service remedy when it fails (as it frequently does), they'd surely be better fixing the root cause of this issue?

[dantheflyboy]

The words trim sensitive are used by many as it causes less angst or fear than talking about the aircraft being out of balance or too heavy in certain areas. Passengers are very sensitive to much of the information given out such as tech issues or weather. Sorting the root cause would be the ideal solution but that requires a redesign of the aircraft type or carrying large amounts of ballast in the rear hold which in turn adds to the fuel burn and onto the ticket price. This aircraft is split into four zones and where a spare row is available within the same zone it will be offered by most crew to whom they see most in need, eg mother and baby, oversized pax such as height or a business person in need of space to work.
Often a seat change is required once onboard due to Passengers who No-Show or just not having enough luggage checked in and last minute cargo changes. We as crew do our upmost to keep everyone happy and often offer a free drink to those whom have been affected by a change of seat not as compensation just as a good will gesture from one human being to another, I must stress this is not company policy!
It is a shame so many people have become so unreasonable and objecting so strongly to moving in some cases just one row. Having said that there are many of whom who do remain calm and don't let it bother them.
I do agree from a passenger point of view it doesn't make sense the way we seat people but until we change to another aircraft type this will continue. Happy flying everyone!

[B Fraser]

Does it make sense to sell pre-allocated seating in the knowledge that delivering the product cannot be guaranteed ? Conning pax out of a few quid means the pax won't come back, they tend to have very long memories.

[Cloud1]

I have an idea - why doesnt someone contact every single passenger that has pre-assigned their seats to see if they got them.

The reason for this? It will put it in to perspective. We are talking about hundreds of flights, and a couple of you have moans and groans about seat assignment.

Lets move on to something more factual and interesting?

[bmaviscount]

Are the E175s really trim semsitive or do Flybe overplay this issue?

[Han 1st Solo]

bmaviscount

No not really, it's just the fact that there's standard procedures across all fleets. In my experience though passengers are usually equally distributed throughout the cabin on the 175 & 195, & you wouldn't want people all at the front or the back on the ejet. The dash is different in that the bags go at the back & so when most people take there bags onboard with them as you would when you have to pay to put them in the hold then there isn't enough weight down the back, hence everyone ends up sitting at the back. Free hold bags on the dash would pretty much solve the problem, but alas I can't see that ever happening.

Regards,

Han.

[Skipness One Echo]

Here's something interesting.
Charging people habitually for something they don't get and the company havin to sell slots for cash flow. Do you think they might have be linked?

Not getting allocated seats is an operational necessity on occasion, not get seats you paid for with no compensation is just kissing trade goodbye. Other firms seem to handle it so much better.

[bmaviscount]

Looks like flybe try to play the Ryanair model but it doesnt work on their small aircraft types. I think if Flybe took the passenger friendly model they may win back some passengers but at the moment the flybe experience is not an experience you seek to repeat.

[E75toDUS]

I think FlyBe are making steps in the right direction. For instance, I notice the option to insure yourself against the £35 change fee for £6 per sector, definitely useful for business travellers.

And on my flights they are always relaxed about people moving to other seats - once the door is shut on the Ejets, and once airborne on the Q400. However, I totally agree that if they are asking people to move, they should be refunding it, charging somebody for a service not delivered isn't cricket.

OK, 2 further recent observations - maybe to keep the discussion ticking along.

1- Why has the share price gone shooting up in the last few week? Obviously this is from a worryingly low level, and still miles below floatation, but 45 -> 75p is not to be sniffed at. Do people think this is just on the back of some vaguely positive economic news, optimisim about the new boss or something else?

2- What is with the long delays waiting for the aircraft to be met at BHX? 15 mins has not been unusual, which is really frustrating when you've landed early. My advice for any FlyBe staff lurking here is that it's unwise for the cabin crew to announce how early you've arrived as you taxi, if most of that gets taken away from me whilst we wait for somebody in a hi-vis vest to wander into view.

[davidjohnson6]

The rise in share price from 46p to 55p coincides with the public announcement of Saad Haamad as the new CEO of Flybe and Jim French moving to non executive chairman.

The day after the boardroom shakeup announcement in early August, the FT had a very positive article saying this new CEO appointment and reshuffle and the moving of "avuncular" (FT's choice of word, not mine) Jim French to another role would be a good thing.

Not sure what caused the sudden rise in share price in mid August though...

[ETOPS]

And FlyBe aircraft now show up on Flightradar24.

[OltonPete]

FR24

It certainly does give a good indiciation of fleet utilisation although there are some areas where coverage is not so brilliant. South of Exeter and Southampton especially as the "MLAT" format usually only picks the aircraft up from 8000 feet.

I have tracked over 55 flybe aircraft most days and I think their last presentation mentioned increased utilisation and some days there seems to be less wriggle room if there are weather or tech problems.

As for loads the BHX figures for July showed some healthy increases and they even did pretty well on BHX-BHD up against easyjets 13K pax figure on BFS but whether this was at the expense of yields (lower prices) I am not sure.

Is the timetable known for the first 195's to leave the fleet and the new 175's arriving? I heard a rumour that the next three 175's are complete and virtually ready this is only a rumour.

Pete

[NickBarnes]

FR24 certainly is nice to see the coverage for their types of aircraft is limited but gives good indication, altough I believe it is a trial for fr24

[E75toDUS]

city rumour published my Proactive Investors that IAG would be interested in a take over

This might start to make strategic sense if IAG start to look at the portfolio effects of owning mainline, low-cost and regional. However, the problem with this is that I don't see the synergies that e.g. KLM get with Cityhopper. as LHR is full. Maybe Madrid is an opportunity, and there could be fleet synergies with the LCY operations, but it doesn't feel that compelling.

Of course, with BE now having a hub at Manchester, maybe that could feed a BA :mad:... no let's stay out of some peoples' Fantasyland.

Still a merged airline could have a great name: BA.BE
And if flying into scorching Madrid: Hot BA.BE

And FlyBe aircraft now show up on Flightradar24.
I did not know this - brilliant, can now further indulge my geek tendancies

[Hangar6]

We could call it , , BEA

[Cazza_fly]

Well it seems Thomas Cook has now publically confirmed the partnership today for the 'mini-hub' operation at Manchester.

Flybe will be able to connect customers from it's UK domestic services to and from Manchester onto longhaul flights operated by Thomas Cook Airlines from next summer...

Thomas Cook confirms Flybe partnership (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2007997&region=2)

:ok:

[Wellington Bomber]

So who stumps up if the Flybe flight is delayed or cancelled. When it could be only a weekly departure:eek:

[vectisman]

I am of the opinion that some posters on these forums would lose the will to live if they couldn't find something negative to say about any development concerning particular airlines or airports.

V.

[North West]

I wonder how the APD will work on these "connecting" services. If sold as a true interlining ticket, doesn't APD have to be charged on the first sector and collected, in this instance, by Flybe.

[anothertyke]

That's interesting, I had the same question in my mind as Wellington. Whereas in the US the big three can run dedicated feeder lines, that's obviously not going to happen in the UK. But surely the future for a good slice of intercontinental from the north of England and possibly Scotland is to assemble the traffic at one place, probably Manchester. So a feeder airline such as flybe needs (a) agreements with AA, UA, SQ etc (b) agreement within the scheduling committee to a wave pattern which works for all. Obviously there is always going to be a risk that fog at Inverness (say) prevents the connection and the commercial deal has to be written down. But given that Manchester is a 'weak hub' ie not an intercontinental base for just one network operator, I think this is the way to go and I hope agreements can be written which work for all parties.

[Cyrano]

I wonder how the APD will work on these "connecting" services. If sold as a true interlining ticket, doesn't APD have to be charged on the first sector and collected, in this instance, by Flybe.

Yes, you're right that flybe would have to collect the APD in this case. But either way, the passenger will have to pay the APD - either to flybe or to Thomas Cook - so there is no scope to avoid it (as in the case of flying via AMS on separate tickets, for example).

[insuindi]

Does anyone understand how FlyBE reacts to demand peaks, and whether they do any forecasting? Looking at BHX-HAJ-BHX, sold out on BHX-HAJ 15/16/23 SEPT and HAJ-BHX 18/19/20/21 SEPT, and the schedule still suggests use of the usually timetabled equipment, except on 20SEPT, where Dash8 was swapped for E175. Demand for those dates has been heavy for weeks, so it is not exactly a surprising sell-out. Do BE not swap planes to react to demand?

[Guest 112233]

From memory I suspect that there may be a major trade show in Hannover at that time of the year.

It may be a commercial value judgement as to weather or not they upgrade the equipment used based on the ancillary costs like refunds on the routes "loosing" capacity.

Edit: I do not know if they carry spare capacity on a regular basis - e.g. a E175 on standby to cover unserviceable aircraft..

CAT III

[CaptainDoony]

Last week Offshore Europe was in town up here in ABZ which creates a ton of extra demand.

BE subbed many of the usual DH4 rotations for E175/E195 on BHX-ABZ so they probably do sub for larger equipment if and when required.

[UPS@EMA]

Flybe has cancelled 1 of the flights EMA-AMS on a Sunday and changed Sat flight. Now both around midday. Rubbish for a weekend away.

[macuser]

Yesterday 9/9 a dash 8 did the red eye JER-LGW, anyone know why?

[OltonPete]

insuindi

The BHX spare is a 195 but it is mainly cover for tech aircraft but CaptainDoony is correct that last week the 175 and 195 subbed in on the Aberdeen with DUS and EDI flown as Q400's at times.

BHX-HAJ of course was double daily in the week during summer 2012 and I was amazed it was dropped to one Q400 but unless BHX gets more 175's I doubt they will change the schedule.

The five jets at the time of the Hanover service operate to Lyon, Inverness, Dusseldorf, Milan and Paris.

Also worth noting the spare 195 seems to spend a lot less time on the ground but some of this seems to be due to maintenance of other e-jets such as the other week one 175 was out of service for six days.

Back to the BHX schedules the 175 on Inverness changes to Aberdeen in winter and is retimed to arrive back in time to squash in the afternoon DUS in order for one of the other 175's to operate Milan in place of the195, with the displaced 195 operating the afternoon EDI service. However the 195's other flights for flybe (not CDG with AF) have disappeared per GDS with the BHD showing all Q400's in the week operating by the BHX base with just one or two 175's operated from the BHD base.

I assume easyjet are eating into their client base and with 3 x 156 seat 319's on a Thursday and Friday this winter things are going to get difficult and in fact in the New Year, flybe have just 5 flights some days with only one jet. GLA this winter seems to keep 2 x195 for SOU and BHX which is a change from the first release of 1 x 195 and 1 x 175.

EMA to EDI and BHD is also reverting to three daily in the week but GLA remains at four.

BHD also still showing Gatwick this winter as 2 x 175 and 2 x Q400 therefore BHD is seeing some capacity cuts once you factor in the seat losses on EMA & BHX.

I suppose some Q400 flights might change to 175's if they ever take deliver of the four due.

Pete

[Artic Monkey]

Pete

The 4 175s will be here by the end of the year.

[OltonPete]

Artic Monkey

Cheers, do you know which bases they have been allocated to as the timetable just shows less 195 flights and more Q400's (in general).

I am surprised at the BHD schedule even before the Gatwick ends it goes from 944 seats to 664 seats on weekdays and are they bowing to the competition on BHX-BFS by easyjet?

Some days on BHX 1572 seats down to 1132 which is a 25% reduction coupled with EMA-BHD reduced by 25% it is some capacity reduction.

Pete

[Artic Monkey]

Hi Pete, unfortunately we don't know yet. From my understanding (& I could be wrong) the 175's will replace some grounded 195's for the winter period, then next summer they will replace some 195's that are to be returned as their leases expires.

[insuindi]

Thanks @OltonPete. Always good to read your posts. Was under the impression that there was more free BE aircraft at BHX - as I fly outside the peak hours during the day usually I probably see them on their lunch break ;)

What BE has achieved on the HAJ route are a stronger load factor at higher fares compared to last summer, so it may be quite an attractive commercial move (until Germanwings decide to ship in from HAJ that is - not at all suggesting that this is on their cards currently). Obvious side effect are the sell-outs during any peak periods, mainly trade shows.

[OltonPete]

Artic Monkey

Thank you for the info

insuindi

You are right there are a few morning and afternoon naps and in general you probably do see one 195 and one Q400 parked.

Basically the BHX schedule has a spare Q400 in the morning and if they want they can make BHX-HAJ it's first flight at 13.00. Also the Waterford departs Mo, Wed & Fri around 10.45 and it does not operate anywhere in that period on a Tuesday & Thursday so in theory you could see two Q400's parked up at midday on some week days but believe me utilisation has improved - honest!

UPS@EMA

Interesting and your post prompted me to re-check the EMA winter schedule and big changes. Currently the Q400 operates EMA-CDG-EMA-JER-EMA-AMS-EMA-CDG-EMA. Winter was switched to 2 x AMS and 1 x CDG but it has further reduced. The other thing is the CDG is showing as the 175 in February but I can't find any other 175 flights from or to EMA.

There could be no based aircraft although I believe the schedule is work in progress or I have missed something obvious.

Glasgow is reduced to three daily with the second inbound to EMA operating Amsterdam 13.05/16.25.

The Paris is still 14.25/18.05 but the second EDI arrives 11.25 and departs 16.15 and I assume Jersey or Paris will fit in between. If it is CDG I assume JER will be operated by the MAN or BHX aircraft although the schedule does not show this at present. Other alternatives are the Belfast second inbound does one of the flights (not showing this at present) or the based aircraft will be doing a new destination.

Pete

[mart901]

Wonder if there is a BHX-NOC shaped gap there, maybe Tue,Thu and Sat/Sun? Does anyone know of a weekend gap for such a rotation?

[OltonPete]

mart901

If flybe wanted to start BHX - Knock it would be no problem aircraft wise, plenty of slack in the weekday schedule although Sunday mid afternoon onwards even in winter is congested but it could be done.

If they flew it at 10.45 Tue, Thu, Sun it could be done but Mon or Fri would be tight. Saturday hardly has any flights outbound after 1pm on the based Q400's.

Pete

[mart901]

This is what I thought because WAT initially was about 6 weekly and has nestled nicely now at 4 weekly. They would need a Sun PM rotation to make NOC work realistically. Sat AM was very popular when EIR had morning flights but even Sat PM flights have worked for the likes of mytravellite. The demand is there, its just seeping to EMA. BE run MAN-NOC 4 weekly through winter and daily in summer, similar to other prop operators in years gone by, and can compete against FR at LPL albeit on a smaller scale so can see no reason BHX wouldn't succeed.

[anne747380]

the 175's will replace some grounded 195's for the winter period, then next summer they will replace some 195's that are to be returned as their leases expires.

Are the 195's really going,what a shame as they are such wonderful planes.Will only a few go or the whole fleet of 14?Surely,they can't get rid of G-FBEA,our "Wings of the Community":sad:

[Calmcavok]

But such a sh!te name to give an aeroplane! It was the result of a competition too. If that was the best entry, I'd have hated to see the ones that didn't make it.

[sdryh]

They are parking up 4 195's for the winter then for the summer the 195's return and then new jets replace 4 dash's that are going back to the lease company. All subject to the new ex easyjet team that now seem to be in charge.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

The 195s must start going back next year though. The lease was only for seven years and although I wasn't on the first course it was one of the first, and that was over six years ago.

[Artic Monkey]

Yes and Aurigney is acquiring one of our soon to be "ex" 195s, too (apparently).

[jethro15]

The Aurigny EMB195 is a new build a/c due Jun next year

BBC News - Aurigny order plane for Gatwick route (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-23646336)

jethro's UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings (http://www.jethros.org.uk/)

[Aero Mad]

Yes and Aurigney is acquiring one of our soon to be "ex" 195s, too (apparently).

This may be a reference to the fact that Aurigny apparently plans to operate a 195 in the interim between Flybe's dropping the route in March and their own acquisition in June:

Mr Darby said: "There will be a short gap between when Flybe abandon the route and when we take over. We need a gap because we need to retrain a lot of our crew.

"We'll fill the gap with what's called a wet lease, so we'll bring in another jet aircraft, hopefully something similar to the one we're going to buy, for two or three months."

So perhaps, as has been speculated previously, one of the ex-Flybe aircraft will simply be leased to Aurigny in the interim.

[jethro15]

That makes sense. I stand corrected

[flying officer kite]

Is there any truth or substance in the rumour that the MTOW of the 195s are being raised??

[redED]

Is there any truth or substance in the rumour that the MTOW of the 195s are being raised??


175s maybe. Never get close on the 195.

[OltonPete]

Lord Spandex Masher

Seven years is up on the first one as it was delivered 2/3 September 2006 and entered service 22/9/2013 on BHX - GLA. Has the lease been extended or does it run to the end of the month?

The aircraft itself is BHX based at present and seems to have operated the flypast at Dublin (along with the BA A380 and Etihad 346 amongst others) and then covered for a Q400 on BHX-INV-BHX.

It probably has more to do today as well with BHX-AMS and BHX - DUS delayed still, making it a miserable day at BHX although not as bad as Monarch and Thomas Cook in terms of the length of the respective delays.

Pete

[JonnyH]

Any particular problems at SOU tonight?

BE148 from NCL looks like it flew into Bournemouth. It also has "contact airline" on the SOU website.

[redED]

Seven years is up on the first one as it was delivered 2/3 September 2006 and entered service 22/9/2013 on BHX - GLA. Has the lease been extended or does it run to the end of the month?


G-FBEA&B still showing as flying in November.

[davidjohnson6]

3 directors - Andrew Strong, Mike Rutter and Mark Chown to leave Flybe. Matt Bennett, head of audit/risk also becomes head of special projects (a corporate title that is not usually encouraging longterm for the postholder).
In effect, old guard being booted out

UK and Outsourcing divisions to be merged as a plan to cut costs. £40m additional savings being targeted. Strategic review due to end in November.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

It appears a radical restructuring of the Exeter airline.Flybe dismisses three directors amid operations overhaul
Airline group merges divisions as new chief executive Saad Hammad pushes for a single, lower cost business

Flybe dismisses three directors amid operations overhaul | Business | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/sep/16/flybe-dismisses-three-directors-operations-overhaul)

[wallp]

Following the restructuring of Flybe's operations, what chance they'll develop a new London footprint following their exit from Gatwick?

I appreciate the airline has a few Luton flights in its schedule for next summer but these aren't even daily & only seasonal.

I wonder if Flybe might see their future as a truly regional only airline, particularly if the routes they are exiting at Gatwick are all, as expected, picked up by others?

Or is the London market too important for them to ignore?

[BOHEuropean]

I see Flybe has expanded their winter programme from Cardiff with four new routes to Chambery, Geneva, Grenoble and Lyon.

Had a little look at the schedules on the airlines site to see how these would be operated. I can't figure out the Chambery route, but for the others (along with a couple of EXT routes) are below.

SOU-GVA-CWL-GVA-SOU, Q400
SOU-GNB-CWL-GNB-SOU, Q400
SOU-CMF-EXT-CMF-SOU, E195
SOU-GVA-EXT-GVA-SOU, E195
BHX-LYS-CWL-LYS-BHX, E175

I thought SOU went to 1x EJET in the winter, does anyone know the disposition of the aircraft this winter? Is it not a little late to launch these routes, or have they been on sale for a while?

[adfly]

Think SOU will have two E-Jets this winter.

[MKY661]

Can I ask are Flybe due to remove all of their E-195's from the fleet? :)

[E75toDUS]

http://www.flybe.com/corporate/pdf/FY13-Flybe-Group-Full-Year-Results-Presentation.pdf

I think this is the latest official information, and Slide 24 indicates that the fleet will reduce to about 6 by 2016. But to me there are lots of variables

...Maybe used E195 values plummet for some reason, and so suddenly a new lease is significantly cheaper
...Maybe FlyBe's costs with the E195 are too close to other LoCos using A319s (or C-series in the future)
...Maybe the economy picks up and the E175 looks too small...

There is of course the new CEO since then. He replaced the board members responsible for the slides presented in June, so I would guess a full strategy refresh is in progress - he's in the driving seat now so I would be very surprised if absolutely nothing changed.

[BOHEuropean]

G-FBEA and G-FBEB I think are due to be returned to their lessors at the end of 2014, but as E75toDUS points out, these decisions were made under previous management so I guess any fleet plan etc should be taken with a pinch of salt!

Thanks for the answers re: SOU-based fleet

[NickBarnes]

iv'e been told that the IOM service to NWI won't be returning next summer :( hope this isn't true as i used this service this year and it seemed well supported when i was on it

[davidjohnson6]

On 11 November (2 weeks from today), the latest half-yearly results are due to be made public. As a time when bank equity analysts will be paying attention, it would make sense to publish the results of the announced strategic review that began in September.

Anyone want to make a guess what the review will suggest ?

[Whispering Giant]

It's already been anounced that the result's of the stratigic review will also be announced on the same day. 11th Nov.

[Flitefone]

Flybe are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The costs per seat are too high to be able to compete effectively against easyjet and ryanair. The last figures I saw (2012) Flybe were more than twice the cost per seat of the LCC.

Short haul business routes with sufficient demand are already mostly served by LCC and legacy carriers and the core market in UK is constrained by APD.

So what do I expect when the review is published?

Fewer aircraft, lots of focus on building SOU for access to London and an alternate for passengers to LHR. A loud call to govt to scrap APD especially for UK regions.

Building strength and frequency on key business routes. Especially AMS, DUB, EDI, MAN, GLA, BHD from SOU and Exeter. And from the Channel Islands to SOU.

Maybe a reinvigoration of the KLM interline relationship at AMS and who knows, even a deal with Aer Lingus for transfers to the Atlantic in Dublin.

Less focus on BHX.

The possibility of a lower seat cost aircraft in future. Maybe an alternate to the e170. Perhaps more higher density dash 8.

A modest attempt at leisure routes from SOU and Exeter. These are high risk because of LCC competition, Flybe probably cannot meet the cost levels needed. And finally maybe a holidays business much like jet2 but on a smaller scale...

[Leg]

A rather poor guess at what's going to happen.

BHX will be expanded, no tie up with KLM (that's a very
cookie thing to say, no chance in 'ell of that happening).

Most flybe routes are too thin for LCC's to look at so not
quite sure where you get that idea from.

Sure the company is going to be reduced in size, anyone
can see that coming.

As for leisure routes, company has already stated that.
No competition at SOU for bucket & spade, and has a
much better catchment than BOH.

Never mind, just over a week and all will be revealed,
lots of crew getting ready to quit though regardless
of the outcome.

[fa2fi]

I wonder if they would consider moving away from the LCC model. They can't compete on price so why not improve the service. I wonder if a Porter Airlines like product would work out for them?

[tarnehat]

They just need to chop back their loss making services with a big scythe - they're flying certain routes at less than 40% load factor, and not high yields - not the way to make money, or even cover direct operating costs!

[Cyrano]

I wonder if they would consider moving away from the LCC model. They can't compete on price so why not improve the service. I wonder if a Porter Airlines like product would work out for them?

Porter's number 1 selling point is Toronto City Airport, much more convenient than Pearson (indeed, the whole Porter business plan was based on frequent flights using this airport, where it had a monopoly for many years). Free in-flight catering and a classy image come next - but very much behind the airport advantage.

There's no equivalent uncompeted airport that flybe can suddenly serve (the equivalent would be if it got into LCY and somehow was the only carrier there.) So if you want it to "do a Porter," all it can do is serve food and drink on board, brush up the brand, and charge more money - closer to home that's a bit like the flybmi model, but with more suitable aircraft (just far too many of them).

[EI-A330-300]

even a deal with Aer Lingus for transfers to the Atlantic in Dublin.


Not a chance, EI have made there position quiet clear on BE and it would it something remarkable for them to change.

[GayFriendly]

According to BHX thread BE have filed for slots BHX-MUC up against a 3 x daily LH serviced. They must be mad. Lets hope this is a dummy slot taken for another more plausible route launch. I like flying BE and hope this much talked about review brings about good things at all bases. For BHX there is great potential for them as are a number of city routes that they could have to themselves, PRG, MAD, GVA, WAW amongst others. They have done well on BHX-LYS so I hope BE start kicking some ass with a much expanded BHX base in the future. Time will tell.....

[EI-BUD]

Not a chance, EI have made there position quiet clear on BE and it would it
something remarkable for them to change


Hey EI-A330-300,

What do you mean EI have made their position clear on BE? I get it that they have had a blood bath of competition on BHD LGW, with both most likely having lost a small fortune on the route. But with BE exiting, and lets remember it is EI that have been predatory going into a BE market and flooding the route with low priced seats.

With BE exiting the route for its own wider ranging reasons, it would make commercial sense for BE and EI to work together at DUB, to feed traffic from EXT, SOU and CFN to the T/A network, and from CFN to Europe. GLA SNN could do with the feed. It would work for both parties, and both are not stranger to doing codeshares, interlining etc.

EI-BUD

[GCILover]

As an ex-employee, I was also informed by an ex-colleague that they are looking at using the jets for night flights out of SOU. Marrakech being one of the destinations mentioned.

[adfly]

I'd assume that would be fitting around the curfew's at night for SOU? How much further is Marrakech than say Faro, as I don't think the E195's can fly much further than that without taking a passenger/payload penalty.

[GCILover]

Not sure off hand. They used to do night flights to Ibiza. It used to leave just after 2200 and come back about 0630 in time to do the first batch of departures.

[BOHEuropean]

I would expect the airline to negotiate with SOU about extension of the airports operating hours... However, night-flights, airnt these sort of flights usually low yielding?

[EI-A330-300]

Hey EI-A330-300,

What do you mean EI have made their position clear on BE? I get it that they have had a blood bath of competition on BHD LGW, with both most likely having lost a small fortune on the route. But with BE exiting, and lets remember it is EI that have been predatory going into a BE market and flooding the route with low priced seats.

With BE exiting the route for its own wider ranging reasons, it would make commercial sense for BE and EI to work together at DUB, to feed traffic from EXT, SOU and CFN to the T/A network, and from CFN to Europe. GLA SNN could do with the feed. It would work for both parties, and both are not stranger to doing codeshares, interlining etc.

EI-BUDRemember a few months ago when BE were willing to accept FR money. BE almost bankrupt, at least 5 profit warnings since 2010 and compared the deal with FR as management being desperate while the deal was like drug dealing.

[spottilludrop]

Sadly only a matter of time brfore they go belly up :sad:

[MKY661]

Sadly only a matter of time brfore they go belly up

Really hope not :(

[kcockayne]

WINGOWANGO,

This IS a "Rumour Network"; is it not ?

[drivez]

Couldn't agree with you more wingo, people can hide behind the fact this is a "rumour" forum, but that is not an excuse for people to say "airlines going belly up" unless you actually have some sort of evidence or rumour to back it up. Otherwise it's ill informed opinion.

As wingo says have some respect for the guys and gals out there right now working the line and in the offices, who Flybe provide a salary to, with Christmas fast approaching and uncertainty hopefully about to be eased, people saying they're going busy is daft.

What seems to be a good management team being put in place, and people looking forward to the future, wait for the 11th and then pass comment.

[Artic Monkey]

Wingo

Sadly, people like spottilludrop don't care what they write because it doesn't affect them, they are too entrenched in their own little "idontgivea****" world to even care.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Honestly, how much did spottillyoudrop's post affect anyone?

[Artic Monkey]

Spandex we all know you've got it in for Flybe. Just because you used to work there and you have no affiliation with the company any more that doesn't mean his posts aren't damaging and worrying to alot of people who rely on Flybe to keep a roof over their heads and feed their kids. But like I said, why should you care?

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Well for a start I'm a Flybe shareholder. :rolleyes:

Still, what damage has that post done, honestly? Anything?

[Set 1013]

Here is my 2 pence worth. I fly for this airline and have been to hell and back over the last year. We now have a new management team who have got rid of the dead wood. Early signs are encouraging! My family and I wait with baited breath for the 11th Nov to see what the future holds.

In the mean time it would be appreciated (and I'm sure from the rest of my colleagues as well) if we didn't have the pleasure of reading messages of doom from people it will NOT effect. I understand it is a rumour forum, but lets step back from making damaging "statements"!

[Cloud1]

Half the companies employees, if not more, are shareholders.

What fascinates me is for something so damaging, it has been discussed for the last 8 posts?

Anyone with an actual understanding of Flybe's current position post restructure is highly unlikely to be using Pprune to discuss it. Therefore one would hope that people will recognise the lack of credibility behind any suggestion that the company will 'go belly up'. Lets look forward to the next announcement

Shall we move on??

As an optimistic and interested follower of Flybe what other routes could be achieved if the proposed night flights take place? I would expect new routes to be announced for day time operations with the current Spanish routes moving to night time - maybe supported by a couple of extra new night routes.

For the E195 where could this aircraft realistically fly to from SOU with a full pay load?

[chaps2011]

Well said Set1013 we know how the newspaper trolls plough through these sites for snippets of info or comments to help build a story

chaps

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Therefore one would hope that people will recognise the lack of credibility behind any suggestion that the company will 'go belly up'.

You'd have hoped so! Seems like people like a bit of melodrama instead though.

Damaging indeed.

[kcockayne]

Wingo,

My point is that this is, by its very name, a "Rumour Network" !
By its nature it will carry RUMOURS. How can you stop this happening, when people are drawn here to publicise RUMOURS ?
It might not be what any "Responsible Person" would do, or what they want to hear; but people are asked to contribute RUMOURS to this site, because it is a "Rumour Network."
If you don't want rumours don't title it "The Professional Pilots' Rumour Network".
Just another of life's great disappointments, I suppose.

[Buster the Bear]

Although this article is about JetBlue, some interesting info in relation to the E190.

JetBlue's New Fleet Plan Is a Game-Changer (JBLU) (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/11/02/jetblue-new-fleet-plan-is-a-game-changer.aspx?)

[EI-BUD]

Buster the Bear,
That was an interesting read, and somewhat logical. I think Flybe are aware of the same issue with their Embraer especially when compared to Dash fleet. And like Jetblue, they ordered the regional jets when the price of fuel was not the hot potato that it is today.

All this said, it to my mind seems logical that airlines may also need a smaller type, perhaps for route development, or for being able to compete with regional markets. E.g FR's 738 does not stack up on some routes and a smaller more cost effective type could be more appropriate, routes like LDY PIK and some DUB - UK routes when regional airlines like EIR are offering frequency and targetting a business customer. Though the key consideration for LOCOs will be keeping costs down overall by having just one type. I'm sure they have all done the maths on the scenarios...

EI-BUD

[E75toDUS]

Comment over on the BHX thread that one of the MUC flights will have a 1725 departure from MUC which sensibly targets a big gap in the LH schedule. If BE also launch an early departure from BHX they will have a pretty business friendly schedule, similar trip costs to LH maybe (both using Ejets), and without the nightstop costs of LH.

Some are obviously sceptical but if there is not too much loyalty to LH then provided the total passenger numbers are there, then maybe there is the chance that both carriers can coexist, like DUS. The big difference could be LH's connecting traffic, which is presumably a lot more at MUC than DUS.

Then again DUS will surely evolve as it transfers to Germanwings next year. I read somewhere that they also want to standardise on A32x, which if true obviously leads to change on the routes operated by Eurowings CRJs

[Boeing737-8]

With no london airport being serve by flybe could we see one in the next few years or not much chance of this. I know flybe fly in to luton a couple of times a week in the summer but apart from that nothing when gatwick goes:confused:

[FQTLSteve]

This might be stating the obvious but for anyone who on LH BHX-MUC flights will know....at least 50-70% is xfer!

[heading 125]

I seen Cardiff is to have four ski flights a week this Winter. Is there any expansion for the spring and summer as well?

[insuindi]

another considerable proportion of pax on MUC-BHX are BMW staff, shuttling between their HQ and the English production facilities (and tied into LH by company contract).

Monarch failed because they used too big aircraft, with a purely leisure oriented schedule - and very quickly suffered from irratic timetable changes. I think BE on that route with 2 daily might well work.

[Flypuppy]

Have just heard that Jim French is to quit as chairman

[CKT789]

Directorate Change - London Stock Exchange (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11763580)

Stock Exchange announcement confirming it....

[FQTLSteve]

Well I wish them luck naturally, but if it irritated LH, they could surely see them off with their resources. Let's see what happens.

[Saab2000 Freak]

Flybe have made a licence application for LTN-GCI any more information on this? Is this a form of replacement for LGW, could we see NQY-LTN appear and improved services and frequencies on IOM and JER-LTN?

[LGS6753]

In their application, FlyBe cite the new application as a part-replacement for 'lost' Gatwick capacity. Other GCI routes will be rescheduled to free up a Dash8 for a once-daily operation.

[GCILover]

There's no need for anything to be rescheduled, it can take the place of the lunch time LGW that was done on the dash between the morning and afternoon SOU flights

[BHD2BFS]

Maybe BHD - LTN?
Belfast to London was a huge market for them, shame if they lose it and just hand it over to competitors

[Boeing737-8]

Waterford - luton
This route has been made profit for years and with a daily dash this can make money

[mikkie4]

Jim French had a big falling out at SEN when FLYBE were flying to Jersey just before EZY set up home at SEN.now he has gone would be nice to see FLYBE back at SEN

[davidjohnson6]

mikkie - what routes would you propose Flybe operate from Southend, bearing in mind that Easyjet fly from Southend to Jersey, Edinburgh and Newquay and have found that Southend-Belfast was not a great performer ?
Not saying Flybe won't return to Southend - just that hopes have to be based on something realistic rather than just a warm fuzzy feeling... :)

[mikkie4]

maybe some more domestic routes,i e glassgow/manchester,germany france,spain,lots to choose from:D

[compton3bravo]

I see the new non-executive chairman has plenty of experience working in the airline industry - not, but at least he has a private pilot´s licence!

[Leg]

Yeah bit insensitive that when about to make more real Pilots redundant.

Never mind, he used to run a garden hose company so everything
will no doubt be rosey in the garden.... :eek:

[LGS6753]

I wonder if the GCI-LTN application is the last throw of the old dice, or whether it's a portent of the new strategy?

[virginblue]

I note that Flybe has applied for slots for thrice daily flights for SOU-FRA (E75) and EXT-DUS (DH4 - nightstopping) for next summer schedule. Looks to me more like stealth slots for other destinations - anyone in the know what they are up to?

[adfly]

Codeshare with LH on the horizon?