FlyBe - 6

[Otto Throttle]

Or try a Dornier 328. Makes the Q4 look like the bodge job it is.

[ianjlloyd]

I know comfort is a very subjective thing but my flights on the ATR have been far more comfortable than those on the Dash 8. I've flown on the Fokker 50 but too many years ago to be able to remember how it compared.

[PaulW]

You should try a Saab 2000, for speed, altitude, range and noise levels.

[EuroWings]

I know comfort is a very subjective thing but my flights on the ATR have been far more comfortable than those on the Dash 8. I've flown on the Fokker 50 but too many years ago to be able to remember how it compared.

In the Aer Arann fleet, there's quite a difference between the 20 year old ATR-42s and the much newer ATR-72s.

Never been on a Saab 2000, but I have been on the similar looking BAe ATP.

[Rivet Joint]

Ok so going on some of your arguements the Q is terrible and should be removed from service. In the event that the money men at flybe ever pander to such pampered points of view then watch half of flybe's network dissapear. Then all you moaners can get on the always punctual, never break down bus/train :ok:

[JimNich]

PaulW

Nice thought, but there aren't any.

ATR Vs Dash, don't know, never flown on an ATR, the Dash does have superb engines though whatever else you say about it. They're V powerful, reliable and don't use much fuel, and thats why Flybe will be hanging on to them for quite a bit to come.

[tallaonehotel]

There is only a looks thing between the Saab 2000 and the ATP.

The S2000 is one of the best turboprops ever built.
The ATP on the other hand, the worst.

The Q400 is a good machine, like all things it can have it's off days.
It keeps some of us in jobs!

[carlrsymington]

Aye, I tell thee, when I was a lad we didn't have Quiet 400's. We had Belfast's finest, tha Shorts 360. Twas the nearest thing to flying in an aluminium shed I have ever been. We had to wind the elastic bands ourselves and the catering was handful of gravel....


(credit to Monty Python)

[JimNich]

Gravel!!!..........Bloody luxury!

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Yawn, go back page, it's FlyBE NORDIC doing this, so same group but absolutely nothing to do with FlyBE UK's flight ops

[IOMspotter]

Any spare Q400s round the network boys, we need one down here in Ronaldsway after 2 days of delays and changes. 5 hour delays and trianglear services combing BRS and BHX yesterday...:(I cant see the damaged aircraft flying for a few days till the structural boys have been and tested everything.:{

[OltonPete]

IOMspotter

They have been chartering in with BHX seeing a Small Planet 733 on Friday and an Aurela 733 was flying MAN-ABZ per Flightradar24 today.

A couple of delays at BHX today including the IOM which is due out now.

The sixth 175 still has not arrived although it was registered on Friday.

In respect of the IOM incident, another forum states that a driver of a vehicle on the ramp had an heart attack and it went into Q400 "CH". Can anyone verify this?

Pete

[Cloud1]

BluffOldSeaDog - Flybe (Nordic) can be discussed on here as much as EasyJet Swiss can be discussed on the Easyjet thread. Let it go :ok:

Olton Pete - yes can confirm, but thankfully the guy to my knowledge is recovering

[OltonPete]

Cloud1

Thank you and good to hear the driver is okay.

Pete

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Cloud1, of course Nordic can be discussed but clarification to those without the info that these are 2 separate AOCs is required

[EMX81L]

Will be very lucky if CH moves anytime soon, if at all... Lots of rivets gone, damaged stringers, creased skin, 4in slice into the skin, and the biggest dent I have seen from ground handling equipment. I wouldn't like to even guess how much it is to repair... Blank cheque at the ready and fill in the zeros! Not sure if it would be a right off, but that's for Bombardier to decide I guess!

[JimNich]

Ouch! Any pictures anyone?

Glad the drivers okay though.

[CaptAirProx]

From the discription above it sounds less than what happened to DO a few years back, that required a rather large plate about 2m square to get it back to EXT afterwhich the whole starboard skin from lower crown to upper crown aft of rear door to pressure bulkhead being replaced with some frames and stringers.

[Otto Throttle]

Indeed. I believe that little scrape cost something like £600K to put right. At least that time the handlers weren't trying to play conkers with it.

[mizake the mizzen]

Regional carrier Flybe has introduced a codeshare agreement with KLM (http://www.abtn.co.uk/glossary/term/2438)Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij (Royal Aviation Company) the flag carrier of the Netherlands on two routes from the UK to the Dutch carrier’s Schiphol hub.

The codeshare will apply on Flybe flights from Southampton and Inverness to Amsterdam from today, May 30. There are three daily flights from Southampton and one daily service from Inverness.
Flybe operates these two routes using Bombardier Dash 8-Q400 and Embraer E-195 aircraft.
“This partnership enhances the existing cooperation between the Air France-KLM Group and Flybe,” said the companies in a statement.
“Flybe and Air France already operate within the framework of a codeshare agreement (http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/1314428-flybe-code-share-air-france) on a substantial number of routes between France and the UK.”

Soure: ABTN.co.uk

[JimNich]

I assume the handling company will end up footing the bill? Closely followed by their insurers no doubt.

[EMX81L]

The IOM Government will be footing the bill I would of thought, as they provide the baggage un/loading and wheelchair ambulift facilities, and not the handling agent.

[AirGuru]

Denimair are delivering a Fokker 50 aircraft to Flybe this evening. Presumably to cover the absence of the written off aircraft. Anyone know the tail number of the now deceased aircraft ?

[redED]

Dash 8 - MSN 4103 - G-JECH

[lfc84]

Its JECH :ok:

[EMX81L]

GJECH isn't written off, it's just going to require quite a bit repair to get to EXT, then an even bigger one to get it flying passengers again

[Limburg]

Denimair are delivering a Fokker 50 aircraft to Flybe this evening. Presumably to cover the absence of the written off aircraft. Anyone know the tail number of the now deceased aircraft ?
PH-KXX is currently enroute as BEE048P! No FlyBe signage had been applied by this afternoon (when I was near it on the ramp @ Maastricht)

[AirGuru]

So its G-JECO ? Such a shame for Flybe. Well PH-KXX to the rescue then ! Although a F50 isnt exactly BE's usual style. Does anyone know if BE are planning to replace it ? I assume so as their fleet is quite stretched on their schedule anyway.

[Tonyq]

AG - it says three times, in the previous four posts, it is G-JECH. Not sure where you got G-JECO from!:ugh:

I think you have answered your own question.....It seems that Denim are going to replace it, presumably until it is fixed or another Q400 can be found from somewhere.

[Limburg]

PH-KXX is to be based @ Edinburgh!

[FL370 Officeboy]

G-JECO is long term sick in Exeter at the moment - badly damaged having been bashed by a ground handling vehicle a few days before G-JECH was.

The confusion is understandable with 2 airframes out of action for very similar reasons.

[Cloud1]

-CO is actually much better now and is operating out of BHX today according to the airports movements

[jetstreamtechrecords]

11 June 2012 | 07:18am
StockMarketWire - European regional airline group Flybe said it delivered a disappointing result for the year to end-March.

Revenue under management increased 14.0% to £678.8m (2010/11: £595.5m). Underlying EBITDAR fell 22.0% to £88.8m (2010/11: £113.8m) with an operating loss of £4.9m (2010/11: loss of £0.9m) and a loss before tax of £6.2m (2010/11: loss of £4.3m).

Flybe said, this performance, while disappointing, reflects a resilient business able to weather the combined impact of a 5% underlying decline in its core UK market during the year along with high fuel prices and other inflationary pressures. The results also reflect significant investment in the Group as part of the implementation of a long term growth strategy, specifically representing the first year losses associated with the Flybe Europe division (£3.7m) and the new training academy building in Exeter (£1.2m). Without these investments, the loss before tax would have been £1.3m, or approximately 0.2% of turnover.

[OltonPete]

The loss was not as bad as some press reports stated over the weekend, below is the flybe press release.

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1206/11.htm)

Notice the fleet growth from 69 to 83 and I assume that is nothing to do with the Finnish venture as this is mentioned separately as 28.

14 units is quite an expansion (in this financial year?) and I assume all of these will be 175's?

Any news on the East Mids to Paris and Amsterdam routes going on sale and is there any chance they will look at BHX-AMS?

Pete

[SWBKCB]

this Flight article says:

Four further E-175s are scheduled for delivery this year, and leases on two Q400s expire, it says.

Flybe confident despite rising losses (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/flybe-confident-despite-rising-losses-372837/)

So net 2 BE increase plus the 12 Finnair EMB's = 14?

Growing the fleet under management to 83 aircraft with an average age at year end of 4.6 years (2010/11: 69 aircraft with an average age of 4.3 years)

[Cyrano]

is there any chance they will look at BHX-AMS?

Pete

Not sure they would want to compete head-to-head with their new codeshare partners KLM...

[OltonPete]

Cyrano

How about a similar arrangement to BHX- CDG and code-share on all flights then increase the frequency from the current five daily to eight using a mix of BE & KLM aircraft?

SWBKCB - Possible, 14 would be quite an acceleration although with Baby's demise and opportunities with Brussels Airlines they could do with more now.

Pete

[Cyrano]

Cyrano

How about a similar arrangement to BHX- CDG and code-share on all flights then increase the frequency from the current five daily to eight using a mix of BE & KLM aircraft?
Pete

Fair question, Pete, and I agree that this would make very good sense (except for the poor punter trying to understand what onboard product he/she'll be offered:ouch:) but KLM has a very restrictive agreement with its codeshare partners (at the behest of the KLM pilots union I believe) which IIRC limits each codeshare partner airline (with exceptions for AF and DL) to max 2 routes. I believe that's why EI couldn't put the KL code on their BFS-AMS route - it was because they already had it on DUB and ORK. I know flyBE is operating INV-AMS and SOU-AMS - don't they have KL codes on those two routes?

[SWBKCB]

SWBKCB - Possible, 14 would be quite an acceleration although with Baby's demise and opportunities with Brussels Airlines they could do with more now.

The 12 Finnair Embraers are being outsourced to BE but will operate Finnair flts - see link below.

Finnair outsources 12 Embraer 190s to Flybe venture (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/finnair-outsources-12-embraer-190s-to-flybe-venture-372158/)

[mizake the mizzen]

11JUN2012: Additional two Flybe. Dash 8-400s to be operated for Brussels Airlines
Brussels Airlines (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airline.php?airline=BRS) (SN, Brussels National Zaventem (BRU) (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airport.php?airportid=361)) will wet-lease two additional DHC-8-400 (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/aircraftdata.php?aircraft=DH4)s from Flybe. (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airline.php?airline=BE) (BE, Exeter International (EXT) (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airport.php?airportid=1871)) from October to replace the wet-lease contract for two ERJ-145 (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/aircraftdata.php?aircraft=ER4)s currently wet-leased from bmi regional (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airline.php?airline=BDR) (II, Aberdeen Dyce (ABZ) (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airport.php?airportid=1837)). It currently wet-leases a Dash 8-400 from Tyrolean Airways (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airline.php?airline=TYR) (VO, Innsbruck Kranebitten (INN) (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/airport.php?airportid=139)) and two from Flybe.

Source: CH-Aviation

[The96er]

SN must be getting a really good deal from Flybe if they're going to continue to put up with the DH-8 appalling dispatch reliability.

[redED]

So net 2 BE increase plus the 12 Finnair EMB's = 14?

Finnair's Embraers are going to flybe Nordic NOT flybe UK.

[No RYR for me]

SN must be getting a really good deal from Flybe if they're going to continue to put up with the DH-8 appalling dispatch reliability.

Well this probably helps...

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1103/24a.htm)

Flybe flies high on punctuality and customer satisfaction ratings - Isle of Man Airport Website (http://www.gov.im/transport/airport/ViewNews.gov?menuid=18319&page=lib/news/transport/airport/flybeflieshighon.xml)

(BE) FlyBE On-Time Performance Rating (http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightRating/flightRatingByCarrier.do?airline=%28BE%29+FlyBE)

It is not what you have but what you do with it..... :D

[AirGuru]

One aviation pundit has predicted that the way forward for flybe is to relocate their main hub or whatever you wish to call it to another airport. Could work, could not. Express your thoughts peeps ?

[JobsaGoodun]

Flybe don't really have a main hub, they are the largest carrier (their definition) at 12 airports around the UK, including SOU, BHX, MAN and BHD so I'm not sure what difference 'relocation of their main hub' might mean? ..... I'm intrigued to know what difference such a move might make? Where should 'the hub' be and what would be the positive impact of such a move?

[Severn]

What AirGuru's comment was regarding was not that of an aviation pundit but the strong opinion of the proprietor of another forum dedicated to Welsh aviation, (and also apparently that of an un-named 'pundit') suggesting that a 'wholesale move' from EXT to CWL would bring about certain financial and other benefits.
This person stated that if flyBe don't consider a wholesale move from Exeter to CWL, (where of course it would get cheap land/buildings, WelshGoverment financial support and probably a free base for 4/5 aircraft) then to suspect that Flybe will face some kind of take-over bid before too long.

This opinion of theirs can only surely be one of desperation because CWL is in a sorry state of affairs and they would like to see a few more passengers pass through their airport.

So AirGuru actually wants to know how likely it is that flyBe are going to up-heave from EXT and move everything to CWL????

[Rivet Joint]

Ha ha, now thats what I call getting someones number. Bravo, hit the nail on the head :ok:. In short Air Guru, no, really no.

Incidentally anyone remember Air Wales? :E

[davidjohnson6]

May I ask why flybe has its head office in Exeter rather than Southampton ? I realise that an airline's largest base and it's HQ do not have to be in the same city and I assume the reason goes back years, but am still curious as to what the reason for the choice of Exeter is...

[SWBKCB]

You need to look at the history of the the airline and how it developed to understand why the HQ is where it is.

The question (well, non-question really...) is why on earth would the airline consider moving it's HQ, with all the upheaval and cost that would entail? What would the business case be? The only reason I can think of is if they are made an offer they can't refuse by an official body with loadsamoney to chuck around? Don't think there are many of those of those around at the moment, so dream on...

[MUFC_fan]

Is MAN not becoming their largest base now with the new 'super hub?' Maybe not in terms of aircraft based but certainly in passenger numbers?

Does anyone have a base/aircraft breakdown?

[Severn]

Should be pretty close to this....
BHX - 4x DH8D / 2x E175 / 5x E195 (+1 DHD that overnights in Dusseldorf)
**(1x DH8D + 2x E195's are usually standby aircraft during the week, and move to other bases at the weekend - for example 1x E190 moves to SOU so 3x are based there at the weekend)**
SOU - 6x DH8D / 2x E195
BHD - 6x DH8D / 2x E195
MAN - 4x DH8D / 2x E175 / 1x E195
EDI - 5x DH8D / 1x E195
GLA - 3x DH8D / 1x E195
EXT - 2x DH8D / 1x E195
IOM - 3x DH8D
JER - 1x DH8D / 1x E195
ABZ - 1x DH8D / 1x E175
INV - 1x DH8D / 1x E175
NCL - 2x DH8D
GCI - 2x DH8D
NQY - 1x DH8D
LGW - 1x DH8D
**DUS - 1x DH8D (Overnights from BHX)
+2x DH8D in Maintenance
+2x DH8D flying for Brussels Airlines

[Jamesair]

Plus 2 x DH8D aircraft to service the NCL - BRU and BRS -BRU routes for Brussels Airlines for Winter 2012/13 seasons.

[Tonyq]

According to Jethro's there are four more E-175's due by end of 2012. It appears that no more Q400's should depart until summer 2013 (assuming that the next ones due up are on 10 years leases), so that should provide enough capacity for the new Brussels work and the new EMA base.

[ematom1]

Does anyone know when Flybe will put the flights on sale for Jersey, Amsterdam, Paris from East midlands??

[davidjohnson6]

The initial announcement about flights from East Midlands to Amsterdam, Jersey and Paris was made on 2nd May. A cynic might say that if after over 8 weeks flights haven't gone on sale, then it's probably not going to happen for the time being...

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1205/02.htm)

The press release on 11 May about East Midlands makes no mention of these 3 routes

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1205/11.htm)

[harriewillem]

Vluchtinformatie
Vluchtnummer BEE042P
StatusVertrokken
MaatschappijDenim Air (D060)
Vluchthaven B'mingham (BHX)
Gepland voor28 juni 2012, 20:45Verwacht op,
Daadwerkelijke tijd28 juni 2012, 20:53

[hampshireandy]

Flybe pulling the SOU-FRA route from early sept. Had an email from Flybe regarding my booking SOU-FRA in october, upon calling them they informed me no more flights after early sept(cant remember exact date). No one knows why, just 'commercial reason' Not sure if any other FRA routes affected or just the SOU one.
Seems a strange one to give up, the FRA flights always seemed pretty busy even if the flight times were not really early enough.
Does anyone know the reason for the withdrawal?

[globetrotter79]

...they need the aircraft for the new EMA routes, maybe?

[Serenity]

Typical.
Just as the loads are picking up and word is getting around.
Bigger picture anyone??!!

[hampshireandy]

Seems an odd one, first Brussels earlier this year, now Frankfurt. Whats next, Amsterdam?? Surely someone from within knows something?, increased landing fees at FRA maybe?

[adfly]

A shame to see Flybe dropping FRA from SOU, I hope the MD @ SOU is straight on the phone saying:

MD: Hi is that Lufthansa?
LH: Yes how can I help?
MD: Do you have a free CRJ700 and 12 weekly FRA slots available?
LH: Yes we do!

Job Done :ok:

[Rivet Joint]

Typical Flybe of late. Throw away all the hard work of generating good demanand on a dynamic route for the sake of moving in on the carcass left behind by a failed airline. No offence but airports such as EMA might be a wash with people escaping Britain in the summer but as various failed airlines have proved the yeild doesn't add up. :mad:

[hampshireandy]

It wont be long before the only country you can fly to from Sou with Flybe is France.

[JC25]

It's worth remembering that FlyBe dropped MAN-FRA and BHX-FRA not so long ago. The SOU flight was the only FRA route that wasn't culled. So maybe FRA as a market just isn't working for them.

The dropping of the MAN and BHX routes was quite a surprise at the time as they were long established routes acquired with the take over from BA Connect. I'm sure the bean counters know what they're doing (one would hope at least).

[OltonPete]

Possibly fewer Q400 flights the better after today's problems, which saw their luck with the Brussels Airlines flights run out.

In fact not a great week at BHX, with cancellations, delays and combined flights plus of course the Denim Air F50.

Work colleague on the 12.05 BHX-BRU SN2040 actually managed to get on three aircraft for the price of one and will end up in the wrong country on his 50th having expected to end up in Stockholm!

SN2040 "OH" went tech on start-up, followed by three hours in departures before "OB" was prepared, then approximately 20 minutes into the flight it returned to BHX tech. By this time flybe had run out of aircraft and he ended up on the 20.20 Brussels Airlines RJ85. SN have paid for the hotel in Brussels tonight and re-booked him on the first Stockholm in the morning. Ironically he had booked on 06.00 but SN moved the BRU-Bromma times making the connection only possible on the later flight. The 06.00 went on time of course but SN2049 BRU-BHX cancelled.

Another site has "OO" emergency into Gatwick today - is this right?

Pete

[tin canary]

G-ECOO pushed back off stand 9 and then it was surrounded by fire engines. I think it dumped a load of hydraulic oil on the taxiway - it was towed back onto stand and the sweeper trucks were going crazy cleaning up.

G-JEDW has been tech on stand in GCI since Wednesday - not sure what is/was wrong with that one?

[OltonPete]

tin canary

Cheers for that, "OO" has just positioned in to BHX.

A better a day at BHX but quite possible that "OB" disgraced it self for a second day running. Showing as operating BE7121 to Stuttgart this morning from BHX with BE7122 cancelled and libhomeradar indicates BE7121 was its last flight.

Certainly never a dull day with the Q400 fleet.

Any more news on East Mids to Paris and Amsterdam?

Pete

[kazzie]

G-JECR is out of action as well after suffering a bird strike.

[ballyctid]

Ex FlyBe MAN engineer here, with all these tech 400's am I glad I got out when i did!!!

[fjencl]

What type of planes do flybe base at abz ...???

[redED]

What type of planes do flybe base at abz ...???


Ha ha interesting question, got some insider information there??? Apparently yesterday it was announced ABZ is getting another Embraer for the winter!

[fjencl]

Cheers for the info :D

[Skipness One Echo]

Been at GLA a lot this month and every time I pass through there appears to be an ERJ190 parked up on the domestic pier. Indeed tonight it was joined by an ERJ170 that was closed up for the day at 6pm. Is such a leisurely schedule profitable, especially given the carnage on Dash reliability.

[CabinCrewe]

They are scheduled to have extended crew breaks at this time.

[OltonPete]

Is the plan still to send 2 more Q400's to Brussels Airlines?

There seems to have been quite a few adjustments to various booking engines in the last week: -

BHX - Hamburg ending 9/9/12 (GDS & flybe)

MAN-BRU no longer bookable from 9/9 (flybe)

BHX-BRU in winter has changed from 2 x RJ85/3 x RJ100 to 4 x RJ100 and 1 x Tyrolean and no flybe (GDS & Brussels Airlines).

One aircraft base for East Mids this winter operating CDG & AMS plus an away based Q400 from Jersey on some days in addition to the GLA & EDI starting in September.

BRS & EDI - Brussels is still showing as flybe this winter, as it Brussels to HAJ & HAM.

Another aircraft required at BHX in the winter for Amsterdam (assuming no other route cancellations) and how does this sit with the code-share on AMS-SOU as they will be competitors at BHX?

Is it just a case that schedules have not been finalised or in the process of change or has there been a change of plan with the Q400's.


Pete

[JC25]

The current plan, which of course is subject to change, is for two additional Q400s to join the Brussels Airlines wet lease from Sept/Oct.

As I understand it those two additional aircraft will operate NCL-BRU and BRS-BRU 3x daily (overnighting at the UK end). The two current aircraft currently overnight in HAJ and BHX but not sure whether that will change in the winter.

I've not heard anything about EDI but perhaps if one of the aircraft will no longer by overnighting in BHX maybe it will overnight in EDI instead (purely speculating now).

[adfly]

G-FBEA went tech in ALC yesterday on the SOU flight (looked as though it was landing gear related), flew in an engineer but were unable to fix it in time to fly back so sent in the standby E195 from BHX. After countless delays from lazy and incompetent spanish airport staff (Crew requested fuel 30mins before arriving at ALC but the truck didn't arrive until after everyone had boarded!) ATC were also very slow considering the plane didn't leave until 11:20pm so had to land at BOH in the end. Terrible service for the passengers especially from Aena, zero information from anyone during a 10 hour delay is appalling. Well done to the Flybe crew for doing what they could on the flight though and doing what they could to lighten up a miserable experience!

[OltonPete]

adfly

Without that spare at BHX it left total devastation to the schedule yesterday, with consolidations, cancellations and this was even with the Denin Air operating the evening Hanover!!!!

Note the flybe timetable shows Southampton will get another visiting 175 from October under the current plan - Edinburgh based operating three daily in the week complementing the 195/Q400's operating from the Southampton base.

Pete

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Current trading

In July 2012, scheduled seats flown by Flybe UK totalled 1.07 million, a reduction of 2.7% on July 2011. Passenger revenue per seat in July 2012 showed a decrease of 1.8% on July 2011.

Forward ticket sales revenue for Flybe UK for the remainder of the 2012 summer flying programme from August to October currently shows an increase of 0.3% over the same time last year, against scheduled seat capacity down by circa 2%, with yield growth being offset by a reduction in passenger numbers.

Market share of the Flybe brand in the UK regional market (excluding London) in the three months to 30 June 2012 was 51.2% (Q1 2011/12: 51.8%).

As a result of the current revenue outlook, we are targeting further cost saving initiatives through a range of measures, including capacity management and supplier cost reduction.

[LGS6753]

That's a profit warning, and the shares are down 14% today.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Reading some of the news articles today and it seems like Jim is favouring the 'blame something/someone else' approach to failure.

[davidjohnson6]

With oil at $100 per barrel and the UK economy not going anywhere, they're suffering just like the regionals in the USA.

I can think of the standard kneejerk reactions like pay freeze / hiring freeze (or even redundancies) and cutting or reducing loss-making routes, but a slashing approach sometimes does more long-term harm than good.

What is Flybe meant to do to fix things ?

[Snigs]

What is Flybe meant to do to fix things ?

For starters, stop wasting so much money in Logistics.... 2 taxis for 2 people to the same place, half an hour apart..... WHAT!!!!?

[Buster the Bear]

Flybe will either be taken over or be forced into slashing cost by removing airframes and routes. Clearly the current loss making situation cannot continue long term and with no chance of oil reducing substantially, they have to do something. With a third of seats being empty, demand just is not there.

[Set 1013]

Snigs has hit the nail on the head here.

Logistics seem to waist a fortune on taxis, hire cars & train fares shipping crew around unefficiently.:ugh:

I could give countless examples of different crew being sent from the same base to another base in different taxis around the same time, each at a huge cost. The list could go on.

IMHO Hotac need a big shake up and sorting out. A fortune could be saved here. I would strongly advise JF or AS to have a close look at this.

[JimNich]

Yup, there is a lot of waste that can be nipped and tucked which would make the books look a bit healthier. However, as to fixing things, I agree that kneejerk reaction is the last thing we need. Flybe's business plan is sound, they know the route structure (particularly Gatwick) needs work and that they need to remain pro-active with future opportunities. The good thing is, this is their game, they've been doing it well for years.

The report looks pretty bleak but I believe, if they jusy keep doing what they're doing, synergise (I'm really sorry about that) where they can, dull perseverence will pay off.

Cup still half full. :ok:

[cornishsimon]

Anyone know what the loads are like on the LGW-NQY route ?
Since the demise of SZ on the route it has gone from 3 BE and 4 SZ to just the BE rotations.

with passenger numbers in June 2012 down to 8927 from 9944 the previous year with the 2 operators on the route, thats a 10% drop :ugh:

If the BE rotations are doing well does anyone think that theres scope for a 4th flight per day ?


cs

[Nakata77]

How many staff from Jersey European are still at Flybe? Does this have an impact on the culture? They have a good business model and unique set of routes but if they don't have the mind-set of cost control then they will fall at the hurdle that is the longest economic slump in history.

[Serenity]

Let the cost cutting commence .............

[gearupflapsupshutup]

There are a lot of so called managers....

[JC25]

I don't think it's really as bad as a lot of people are making out. Revenue growth is sluggish and not picking up as expected, but it's not falling. Profits aren't there but the losses are relatively small.

Given that the economy is flat or shrinking and has been in a similar state for a number of years its not surprising that things aren't quite as they could be. However, Flybe are in a good position and as soon as the economy picks up (if it ever does!) things should start to improve fairly quickly.

Of course there are always savings to be made, but the suggestion that their should be a mass cull of routes and aircraft seems like a bit much to me. Holding steady with sensible adjustments is probably the best way to go.

[Nakata77]

JC25, thats the whole point. If LCC's can't make it work during the down times then they have no business. Especially this tim around since it could be a very prolonged economic slowing.

[groundhogbhx]

Looks like the BHX experiment with Menzies isn't working. 13th August was an unlucky day for Menzies as BE served a 30 day improvement notice. I also hear that the Airport are preparing to take action but haven't had that confirmed yet as the poor service this morning seems to have been the final straw!

[redED]

How many staff from Jersey European are still at Flybe? Does this have an impact on the culture? They have a good business model and unique set of routes but if they don't have the mind-set of cost control then they will fall at the hurdle that is the longest economic slump in history.


There are a lot of so called managers....


Even more managers to come apparetly; another layer above PBMs. Just what's needed. You can definitely see the expensive traits of BACon days gone by sneaking in.

[JC25]

Flybe is not a LCC. It's a niche regional airline that relies heavily on business travellers. Leisure traffic traditionally targeted by traditional LCCs is not a huge part of Flybe's business, although of course it's still an important part of the mix.

Flybe has a good business model. Before the downturn/recession thy were profitable and have posted marginal losses recently. As th economy picks up, there is no reason to suspect that profits will not return. It's just a waiting game.

They have however announced they plan to close the LGW base in October although this affects only one Q400 and 30 crew.

[OltonPete]

I am with JC25 on this one, things are tough but they seem to have made some good decisions route wise of late, which certainly should help revenue such as EMA-GLA, EDI, AMS, JER & CDG plus BHX - AMS and the cancellation of BHX-HAM, MAN-BRU which have competitors.

The EMA flights averaged between five and ten thousand a month on 737's, with reasonable fares and hopefully flybe will make money where BMI Baby allegedly didn't (Not sure which routes were the real loss-makers)

I can't comment too much on the cancellation of FRA or NOC-LBA but load factors were not great.

I assume the MAN-BRU aircraft is shifting to GLA to operate the EMA and the next 175 goes to EDI to operate the SOU and the Q400 shifts to to EDI-EMA?

The only surprise is that EMA-AMS doesn't start at double daily and that should indicate that they don't want to prune any other routes to make way for it and would rather wait for further deliveries.

The one department that probably could see expansion is Q400 maintenance. The day I flew out on Monarch to Venice four out of eight early morning BHX departures were delayed with no estimate for departures.

Things have slightly improved and it doesn't seem to be lack of aircraft. BHX had ten 195's through yesterday but a couple only operating between two and four sectors if you take out positioning legs to Finland for one of them.

I would imagine operations also earn their corn with the amount of aircraft changes something probably not lost on Menzies at BHX.

Pete

[JC25]

There certainly seems to be an issue with lack of aircraft at the moment and I suspect that is a driving force behind culling some routes that are under performing in favour of new routes or increased contract flying (Brussels Airlines).

Now that there are plans to close LGW base, that will free up an extra Q400 so that may help. They don't only need extra aircraft for the EMA ops, but also two more for Brussels Airlines from Sep/Oct.

[Aeromaniac]

Now closing LGW base! Very sorry to hear that for all involved.

Why couldn't they put a jet in there?!
If they can't make it work at the second busiest airport in the country, what chance. Just rely on marginal regional routes??!

Is this a return to the bad old days, base closures, route cutting, desperate to save money( see lack of pay rises, no new epos, no new uniform as they cant afford it, says the chief pilot), profits falling and staff starting to move on to better companies as the industry starts to recover!!!

[davidjohnson6]

They have however announced they plan to close the LGW base in October although this affects only one Q400 and 30 crew.

JC25 - is this 1) definite, 2) a possibility-but-not-confirmed-so-we-don't-breach-employment-law or just simply 3) one option amongst many ?

I couldn't find anything from Google, but given the comments from Jim French to Bloomberg last week, it wouldn't surprise me

[Aeromaniac]

Definitely closing Gatwick!! :{

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Quote:
They have however announced they plan to close the LGW base in October.


Yet again!

[BFS101]

They are removing the single based Q400 from there. Not ceasing operations into and out of LGW.
So are routes like BHD still safe for the time being???

[irishlad06]

I would take a guess that the LGW base is closing due to the costs for landing aircraft, £1400 per aircraft movement no matter weither its a DH4 or A380, seems a bit steep, i would hazard a guess as to this is why they are closing their gatwick base.

(aircraft movement price as per gatwick website)

[Serenity]

Why close the base though??

Why not put an e jet in?? That alone would encourage more passengers.
Are they not cutting any other flights into Gatwick aswell?
Surely if the price is too high then all flights should be stopped by Flybe rather than just the based aircraft??
Seems like double standards and yet again the hard working Flybe crews lose out again!!!!

[Tonyq]

Don't you think that BE's Commercial and Operations Departments won't have already crunched the numbers and considered your 'options', very extensively prior to making these decisions/announcements?

I don't work in aviation, but it seems likely to me that a single based aircraft simply lacks 'critical mass' in an operation like BE, where margins are thin, or even non-existent.

Some of their adjustments to the network seem to be driven by the need to redeploy assets to routes with more potential,and don't necessarily mean the lost routes are losing money.

I'd be very surprised if BE pay the rate off the website. They may not have the leverage of EZY but they are still a sizeable player.

I have heard that one of the reasons that LGW don't favour them is that their domestic PAX (like me) don't spend enough money in the dreadful shops and over-priced restaurants. :ugh:

[davidjohnson6]

In the last 2 years, assuming a DH4 with an 85% load factor, *published* landing fees at Gatwick have gone from approx £10 per passenger to £22. Swap a DH4 for an E195 and the *published* cost goes down to £15 per passenger. Upgauge to an A319 with 85% load factor and the published landing fee is £11

Presumably this would encourage BE to drop or reduce frequency on a good chunk of the weaker and thinner routes. If you shrink operations to a significant degree, is it still worth the overhead incurred in being a base ?

As an aside, what's the likelihood of Easyjet trying to muscle their way onto the Gatwick-Jersey and Gatwick-IoM routes ?

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Don't you think that BE's Commercial and Operations Departments won't have already crunched the numbers and considered your 'options', very extensively prior to making these decisions/announcements?


You'd like to think so. But this is the third, or fourth, time that BE have closed the Gatwick base in the last 12 years or so.

Sometimes you just have to admit that something doesn't work!

[EI-BUD]

Gatwick-IoM routes


This is on the cards. FRom Winter 2012/3

[cornishsimon]

It would be nice to see ezy bring the airbus to NQY



cs

[cornishsimon]

Got to ask but with the LGW base closing what does this mean for routes operated on the Q400 by LGW based crew ? Such as NQY ?



cs

[Skipness One Echo]

It's hardly a base, one night stopping DHC8 and only introduced quite recently. You'd think they'd announced a LGW withdrawal!!!

[Set 1013]

cornishsimon

It will not effect the NQY - LGW route. That route is operated from NQY with a based aircraft down there.

However if you want to see EZY on the NQY - LGW route than BE will have to leave. There is not enough room on this route for both. Be careful what you wish for here. I suspect EZY would only offer 1 flight a day and in the middle of the day with spare capacity. NQY would then really strugle as an airport with 1 EZY flight a day instaed of the 3 a day by BE.

NQY airport would really shoot them self in the foot if they let that happen!

[Serenity]

Big shame for the Lgw crews.
Many live local or were already moved on from the norwich base closure!!

Just shows what little Flybe thinks of its employees!

[SouBE]

As a former BE bod, it comes as no surprise whats happening at LGW. As previously commented its such a shame that they have little or no respect for their hard working crews who work so hard to keep BE moving. To you guys, good luck and hope something good comes your way.

[JC25]

Serenity, do you really think Flybe should maintain the single aircraft base just for the sake of the crews who are based there? As unfortunate and disappointing as it is that those jobs are now at risk, Flybe is a business. It is in no-ones interest to operate a base at a loss in the long term.

As for routes at LGW, Flybe have stated that no routes will be lost. There will be a slight decrease in flights to JER and the NTE will transfer to SOU (not sure whether they mean it will operate as a W pattern from SOU or whether LGW-NTE will become SOU-NTE. All other routes from LGW are operated by aircraft and crews based elsewhere.

[Cloud1]

LGW is targetting larger airlines and larger aircraft - regional domestics do not form part of their priority despite the numbers that use it as a hub for onward connections. Flybe only had one based Q400 there, and with the increases in charges and potential to make revenue elsewhere the decision to close it as a base comes as no surprise at all. By relocating the aircraft, probably to EMA or to replace one off to SN, it means higher revenue can be generated.

It is dissapointing for the crew, some of which moved over from NWI. However JC25 is right - it is not realistic to expect an airline to keep a base open which is not making sufficient money for the sake of 30 staff. As hard as it is to hear, if they were to keep the base in operation it would only be a matter of time when the airline finds itself dealing with a much bigger issue possibly affecting many more staff, crew or elsewhere.

Goes without saying though that I wish the crew all the best in whatever they decide to do

[Tonyq]

SOU-NTE is in the booking engine from end October, LGW-NTE disappears, so I guess that answers JC25's question.

[Hostie89]

Cornishsimon - the NQY-LGW is operated by EXT base Crew. :)

[adfly]

SOU-NTE is in the booking engine but shows as full when you try and book, offering an alternative via MAN. I'm guessing it will be up soon and also what's the frequency? I'm assume its on a Q400.

[cornishsimon]

Thanks all.

Just for info NQY doesnt have a based aircraft, its a night stopping aircraft and as such there is no BE base at NQY.

As for NQY-LON traffic, numbers on the route are significantly down this year since the demise of SZ, there is room on the route for another operator, or for BE to add an extra rotation ?

remember that for ages we had a 2 daily FR 738, 1 daily BA 734/5/A319, 4 daily SZ and the 3 daily BE.

Plenty of room for more me thinks

But perhaps someone like EZY or RE might look at SEN-NQY ?

cs

[Hostie89]

I think 3 rotations is plenty. Still enough spare seats on them so not overcrowded. :ok:

Rumours of an E175 going to nqy, that would be good if it all went ahead!

[vectisman]

I was just wondering where the announcement concerning the Flybe Gatwick base can be read. I looked online and at the Flybe Investors section of their website and found nothing. I appreciate that such information may at the moment posted internally within the company and dont wish to intrude where I shouldn't be!!
Just a comment on Flybe's route development. I have followed their development for a number of years out of interest and I have respected their cautious approach to trying new markets, after all they are still here! However, even careful me, is beginning to wonder if they should be a little more adventurous. It has been said that their regional sun routes are performing well yet they seem reluctant to expand them. I was quite surprised when they didn't expand more at Cardiff with the demise of BMI Baby. Likewise maybe they should have tested out Durham, Doncaster or Humberside a little more. I admit I am no expert but maybe these sort of routes may counter balance just a little the Uk Domestic decline. Likewise there are some niche places in Europe that Gatwick services may support.
As always comments and opinions most welcome.
V.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Vman, it's a nice idea. However, the last I heard was that the yields for sun routes, specifically Southampton, were poor despite high load factors.

I guess that may temper Flybe's keenness to expand that part of their operation.

[EI-BUD]

vectisman

Valid comments re the sun routes. However, given the seasonality of such routes they are reluctant to commit too many aircraft to them as it would have a knock on effect to the shorter routes or domestic flying programme. Also should they commit to the sun routes in a greater fashion what do they do with the same aircraft come the winter season?

There may be an implication for anciliary revenue, lets suppose that a 195 can carry 110 passengers to say Alicante twice per day, the same machine could do twice as many rotations on shorter routes, hence potentially twice as many passengers flying hence potentially twice as many hotels, car hires and other services needed, this may be also part of the rationale.

The challenge for Flybe in my view, in these markets is their cost base. They are not a low cost airline, yet most of these flights these days are operated by low cost operators. BA have even described these operations as more suited to low cost airlines. The clue may be there.

Flybe can work such operations from SOU and EXT where they are a very well recognised brand where no competition on the same routes directly exists.

Regarding LGW base I cannot think that they will publish much in the way of newsflash on this as it may be misinterpreted that Flybe are going to stop flying to LGW, which is clearly not the case.

EI-BUD

[JC25]

The information regarding the plans to close the Gtpatwick base comes from internal communications.

[vectisman]

Many thanks for your replies.
I appreciate the comment re how aircraft could fly several short rotations for every longer sun route one. However from my experience holiday makers are more likely to spend on the plane buying refreshments and duty free. They also need accommodation and car hires. Rarely do I see people on the Newcastle, Manchester trips even buy a cup of tea! However, having said that, I expect businessmen hire cars, need hotels and will pay the higher fares for flexibilty. At times though the flexi fares seem way too high though.
On the question of fares I agree Flybe cannot be considered truly low cost. On occasion it has been a fraction cheaper for me to take the Car Ferry (live on Isle of Wight) drive to Heathrow/ Gatwick park the car and fly BA to Manchester or Newcastle. Even cheaper if I leave the car and travel as a foot passenger on boat and take the train to the airport. I dont have to pay extra for my case and enjoy the complimentary tea and snack. Having said that I enjoy my flights on both carriers.
At times I must admit the sun route fares look very good value when compared to the domestic ones.
Now for my 'armchair expert' bit!! Feel free to tear apart!! I would make the bases where I am competing against some some of the majors all jet asap. I have nothing against the Dash 8. I have flown on them many times. But, however new and economical they may be the public perception of them is not always positive.
I wonder if some of the Frankurt routes would have done better if entirely operated by jets up against Lufthansa and their full service cabin product. I expect as more E175s come online this will happen anyway. I hear passenger response to them is favourable. Flying into Gatwick from the Caribbean on a BA 777 and travelling on to say Newcastle on a E175 rather than a Dash 8 for example, I think the perceptions of passengers would be more positive.
However I do realise that the Dash 8 may be the reason why certain routes work from regional airports but surely London Gatwick could support 88 seater/118 seater jets. I know Gatwick appear to ne favouring larger aircraft but they also know that without a reasonable amount of connecting traffic their plans for the future in terms of passenger numbers may not be realised. It's also about frequency and timings. Cut frequency too much and passengers look elsewhere for greater flexibility. I used to have a choice of 4 deps a day to Newcastle from Southampton on most days. Some days now this is down to 1. I know demand has fallen but when you get to a certain point demand can follow capacity downwards.
I would also be tempted to look at the inflight service. Offering say a free beverage and a small packet of nibbles again could raise perceptions. Also continue to offer other catering at reasonable prices.
Oh well guess I will have yo just win the next major Euro millions prize, buy the airline and try these ideas out!!
Seriously though, I hope Flybe fly onto btter times. They have done some good work. I can remember 15 years ago Southampton had daily services to handful of destinations such as Newcastle, Paris and Amsterdam!! Seeing a plane land once an hour was exciting .
One final question. Have Flybe considered routes from Uk to connect with the services of Flybe Nordic? Does their partnership with Finnair prevent this? No chance og LGW/MAN/BIRM to Helsinki for example?

Many thanks for reading my ramblings! As always comments and views appreciated.
V.

[vectisman]

Also been thinking about what happens to the sun route aircraft during the winter months. Well some sun routes do continue especially with more people owning places abroad. Malaga ad Faro I think do go year round. Also continue to do what they do now devote capacity to winter sports destinations and increase amount of ski charter work at weekends. In recent years charter flying has increased as more jets have been available. Also I imagine more heavy maintenance is done then. Also the jets are kept busy year round on may domestic and city Europe flights.
Out of interest could the E190 OR E175 do Southampton/Exeter to any of the Canary islands?

V.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

I think youll shortly find out that closing the LGW base is only the first cut. Next comes frequencies into LGW...................

[adfly]

The E195 would probably just about make it from EXT (The route is right at the top of its 1800nmi range) but not from SOU, where they are good for around 1100nmi before being restricted (FAO/DBV sort of range). However I doubt it'd be viable against TOM on a larger and rangier 738.

[vectisman]

Maybe its me but jetstreamrecords you always seem to have an anti Flybe agenda in the tone of your posts. If I am being unfair I do apologise. I just get the feeling that when things are tough for them you are not completely sympathetic. Of course you may have valid reasons. Maybe you need to share them with others on here so we can see where you are coming from. Myself I neither hate or love any airline I just try to comment as objectively as possible.
V.

[Skipness One Echo]

(S)he works for Eastern......

[SecondDog]

I heard the Flybe management have been for a guided tour of Aldergrove.... What chance a reactionary move from them for a change? The more I think about it, the more viable Aldergrove seems for the vast majority of their BHD routemap.

Anyone got an inside track?

[Cloud1]

If BE do go to Aldergrove, I would expect a couple of routes. However to move the entire operation would involve a huge amount of expense, and either more job losses or relocation of a lot of staff. It is not just a crew base, but Flybe have their own ground staff, engineers and customer service teams at BHD. I think it would be an awful move as they are primarily targeting business travels so the airport closest to the city makes most sense. I am sure even this 'new' management team can see that

[EI-BUD]

I would bet my house that BE will not get onto EZY BFS routes directly, but the routes that are not head to head with EZY totally feasible, new routes for BFS and big holes in the routes map from BHD. CWL, EMA welcome back. ABZ welcome back. LBA ... well able to compete with Jet2. SOU, EXT plus winter ski routes.

LGW, MAN, BHX, GLA , EDI, NCL will be wise to stay at BHD unless they want EI to snap them up.

[SecondDog]

LGW, MAN, BHX, GLA , EDI, NCL will be wise to stay at BHD unless they want EI to snap them up.

I think that is the plan for EI anyway tbh, the hushed winds that blow through BFS said that EI were planning a much bigger hub from BHD than they had at BFS and that it was being introduced as a relatively small affair with gradual route announcements to avoid upsetting BE right out of the gate. (I can only assume that BHD management are trying to improve their routemap but also covering potential withdrawals by BE as a result)

Thats what makes me think BE @BFS is becoming more viable for non competing routes with EZY

[RoyHudd]

Is the base at MAN cutting back?

[BHD2BFS]

I actually don't think Flybe moving to BFS wouldnt really affect there pax numbers, ok they would be stupid to go up against EZY but they have some strong routes, Dundee Aberdeen and Inverness all have onward connections with loganair, SOU have cruise pax, EXT is flybe home turf, there is plenty of space to compete with jet2 on LBA. And Cardiff and East mids have no other airline in NI. Plus a big thing is that if they leave BHD EIR could never replace their whole network, they don't have enough aircraft, Flybe have 7/8 aircraft at BHD so EIR just couldn't do it

[davidjohnson6]

Dundee Aberdeen and Inverness all have onward connections with loganair

I don't wish to comment on Aberdeen or Inverness, but Dundee is absolutely tiddly - it's not a place to go looking for connecting flights !

[SecondDog]

I actually don't think Flybe moving to BFS wouldnt really affect there pax numbers, ok they would be stupid to go up against EZY but they have some strong routes, Dundee Aberdeen and Inverness all have onward connections with loganair, SOU have cruise pax, EXT is flybe home turf, there is plenty of space to compete with jet2 on LBA. And Cardiff and East mids have no other airline in NI. Plus a big thing is that if they leave BHD EIR could never replace their whole network, they don't have enough aircraft, Flybe have 7/8 aircraft at BHD so EIR just couldn't do it

Why would moving up to BFS with the same routemap mean they were suddenly going up against EZY? Sure they are already doing LGW et al from BHD. Surely there wouldn't be any difference really? Plus BFS would gain all those smaller business routes too. Win Win!

[BHD2BFS]

I have heard that LGW may be dropped from BHD, which means if BE move to BFS, EI will just take the LGW pax that prefer BHD over BFS
I think I will get shot down for saying this but I really think BE could move to BFS. We have learnt over the years that Pax pick airlines over airport so if they move the pax will follow

[shamrock7seal]

No chance of a BOH base then anytime soon.

All the aircraft from the LGW base, are they going to SEN?

[Otto Throttle]

If BE were to relocate to a muddy field down a potholed farm track in darkest Antrim, at least 25% of their crew would be unable to make the obligatory 60 minute callout from standby. Given their difficulty in recruiting cabin crew in particular, even at the best of times, they're going to need to block book a lot more hotel rooms for all the night stopping crew to ensure they can even operate.

Not that common sense would prevent them doing something daft.

[redED]

90 minute report time.

[BHD2BFS]

I doubt they have difficulty recruiting cabin crew, they have better perks than a lot of other airlines out there and the amount of people who are unemployed at the moment I am sure they won't find it hard to find new ones

[vectisman]

Shamrock Seal
They are only removing the single Dash 8 aircraft that is based at Gatwick.The route to Nantes I believe is also ceasing in October. All other flights will be continuing as they are operated to and from other bases.
V.

[OltonPete]

monkey.tennis

The booking engine is still showing double daily on Monday and Friday in September with an early morning departure and back to double daily in winter (weekdays). Is something about to change, it would be a bit of a blow for Cardiff?

With the next 175 due soon and the Manchester - Brussels aircraft released I would have thought that would be sufficient in the short-term but could be wrong.

BHX-EDI for winter is showing the afternoon Q400 switched to the 195 making it along with Glasgow all jet. The timetable still showing the 175 switching from BHX-GLA to BHX-STR and the morning 195 BHX-BHD moved to BHX-GLA . BHD also sees the Q400 on the afternoon and evening BHX based rotations, which I wonder if this has anything to do with easyjet starting BFS-BHX this winter? Currently 7 x 195 changing to 4 x 195 and 3x Q400 for winter.

"e-petition" I received an e-mail from flybe today inviting me to "e-sign" a ready made memo to my MP asking for a APD to be re-thought.

All I had to do was add my postcode and a picture of my MP popped up with her e-mail address and there is also a field to add your own comments. Certainly made it easy for those bothered.

Pete

[mathers_wales_uk]

Cardiff to Glasgow operates up to 2 x daily at present for the Summer

Morning GLA-CWL-GLA operates M _ _ T F S _
Evening GLA-CWL-GLA operates M T W T F _ S

At present the Winter timetable is showing

Morning GLA-CWL-GLA operates M T W T F S _
Evening GLA-CWL-GLA operates M T W T F _ S

I have longed for Flybe to open a base at Cardiff and it has been believed by many a crew it was only to be a matter of time and was even hinted by Flybe themselves a few years back.

[CabinCrewe]

The GLA-CWL-CDG should really be decoupled and made direct

[mathers_wales_uk]

I guess you mean GLA-CDG direct Cabin Crew.

It is hard to monitor the performance of the Glasgow route from Cardiff as the summer holidays can offer a lot of transit passengers CDG-GLA with leisure passengers likely booking in advance.

I believe Flybe are reluctant however to opt for a GLA-CDG direct service as they did a similar move with the BHD-CWL-CDG which operated twice daily before switching it to GLA. The loads to my knowledge were not satisfactory on the direct BHD-CDG and believe it now operates BHD-EXT-CDG.

The CWL-CDG schedule did not suit the business traveller as the aircraft departed CWL at 08:50 and returned into CWL at 12:35 this is why it wasn't really a hit with the business comunity and got axed appart for Saturdays.

The afternoon CWL-CDG departs CWL at 15:50 and returns at 19:35 but is not operational on Saturdays.

Being a non based destination it is quite hard for CWL and appart from the EDI schedule and the GLA schedule when it operates 2 x daily the other routes are not suitable for business travellers.

CWL-BHD operates 1 x daily a/c arrives CWL at 11:30 and departs CWL at 11:55 (Monday to Friday).

With the withdrawal of bmibaby from CWL offering a daily 148 seats on the service you would have thought Flybe would have added capacity.

If Flybe had a 2 x a/c based at Cardiff it would allow for a more business friendly CWL-CDG departure and the same for CWL-BHD.

The AM & PM flights to GLA & EDI could remain operated by their respected bases and the CWL a/c could operate the afternoon EDI.

(I can only dream)

[EI-BUD]

I believe Flybe are reluctant however to opt for a GLA-CDG direct service as they did a similar move with the BHD-CWL-CDG which operated twice daily before switching it to GLA. The loads to my knowledge were not satisfactory on the direct BHD-CDG and believe it now operates BHD-EXT-CDG.




We have a daily easyJet flight to CDG this has been the case for many years. Though the same season that Flybe entered the BHD CDG route, Aer Lingus launched a daily flight from BFS. easyJet increased ferequency to 9 per week so in fact we now went from Belfast Paris market of 7 flights a week 23. So little wonder Flybe were not satisfied with the performance.

Add to this winter 2007 and summer 2008 were challenging especially in Belfast as wely had the flood of capacity on the Belfast London route with the arrival of Ryanair and Aer Lingus, consequently traffic on London routes overall grew significantly and it could be argued that this attracted passengers who alternatively might have been flying on breaks to other cities including Paris.

[mizake the mizzen]

flyBe to Cancel Manchester – Brussels Service from September 2012 (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/airlineroutenews/~3/y__RqT0G_9c/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email)
Posted: 16 Aug 2012 01:35 PM PDT
Update at 2040GMT 16AUG12
flyBe starting 10SEP12 is cancelling Manchester – Brussels service, where it currently operates up to 11 weekly service on board Dash8-Q400 aircraft.
Schedule until 09SEP12:

BE593 MAN0715 – 0945BRU DH4 x67
BE597 MAN1715 – 1945BRU DH4 x6
BE594 BRU1015 – 1050MAN DH4 x67
BE598 BRU2015 – 2050MAN DH4 x6

Source: Worldairlineroutes online.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/airlineroutenews/~4/y__RqT0G_9c?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

[JSCL]

Astonished by the MAN-BRU cancel. As a frequent user of these flights, they are for the most part, busy. Wonder why? Surely we can't just be reliant on the few SN over-priced rotations?

[JSCL]

Now impossible to do a day-return. I do this usually twice/week since last October. Early morning landing, later 8pmish departure has worked really well. Seems the only options now are FR via CRL, no thanks! I wonder if SN intend do bring in more rotations themselves...

[eastern wiseguy]

If BE were to relocate to a muddy field down a potholed farm track in darkest Antrim


Bloody good job it is there for when the bucko's down the road decide you aren't worth waiting for.......ar$e...

[JC25]

It is still possible to do a day return with Brussels Airlines. They have a night stopper aircraft at MAN and their first outbound is before 7am and last inbound is 8pm.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

MAN-BRU is just the first of a number of cuts coming in the next 4 days.

With a £20m loss on the cards this year something has to be done or next year it could be a £30m or £40m loss the way Europe is going.

statement this afternoon says....

"Flybe can confirm that it is cancelling its Manchester to Brussels service with the last flight operating on Sunday September 9th.

"Flybe carefully reviews the viability of all its 200 plus routes on a regular basis, taking into consideration passenger numbers and external cost pressures. This is done not only to monitor where it can offer increased regularity on any given route, but also where passenger numbers make a route uneconomical."

[hampshireandy]

So after cutting SOU-BRU and SOU-FRA its now MAN-BRU. Do Flybe have any major French shareholders as there seems to be only one country they want to fly to!? Maybe Jim French, the most aptly named chairman in aviation history,has a chateau over there.
This latest cut gives passengers less than 4 weeks to book alternative flights, at presumably inflated prices due to the late booking. What about punters who now will decide not to fly and cant get their hotel costs refunded? Will Flybe refund hotel costs?, dont make me laugh! And no, i dont have a booking on the MAN-BRU flight but i did have ones on SOU-BRU, and SOU-FRA.
Cut a route by all means if it isnt paying but have the damn decency to give people more notice than this. It doesnt give you much confidence to book a Flybe flight for the future does it? Any bookies taking odds on the next airline to go belly up??

[OltonPete]

hampshireandy

Re MAN-BRU and for that matter BHX-HAM, SOU-FRA & LBA-NOC these have been off-sale for quite a while.

Somebody else reported MAN-BRU first but I repeated it about a month ago but airlineroute.net picked up on it only this week.

I can't find my post and I can't remember if I posted on the flybe, Manchester or Birmingham thread (as part of the Hamburg news).

I would say it was June or early July but not this week.

Pete

[hampshireandy]

Ok, fair enough Pete, didnt realise that, it will be interesting to see how much notice they give in the further cuts that are due in the next few days though.

[redED]

I'm sure they'll offer to put them on SN's MAN-BRU what with their leasing arrangements.

If you're still after a bookmaker Hampshireandy I'm more than happy to take your money from you, I'll give you fantastic odds.

[JC25]

Hampshireandy, what cuts are coming in the coming days? Is this speculation or based on something more factual?

[OltonPete]

I would guess something is in progress as the booking engine does not match the timetable on BHX flights.

BHX changes: -

Waterford moved on Mon/Wed/Fri to a 10.10 departure (credit Jamie2k9 for pointing that out).

Mon-Fri BE404/5 BHX based 195 moved to lunchtime as a BHD based 195.

BHX-Inverness 14.05 BHX departure in the week on a BHX based Q400 is now on an Inverness based Q400 and ties in with the INV-MAN service leaving INV-AMS not fitting into the schedule (Ideal route to operate BHX-AMS-INV-AMS-BHX leaving BHX 10.30 ish returning 17.00).

Interestingly 175's showing in the morning as BHX-DUS, BHX-STR & BHX-GLA (one more than now) and the first BHX-BHD which was due to revert to the Q400 shown as a 195. BHD-BHX when fully operating is 7 x 195 and for winter was showing as 3 x Q400 and 4 x 195 but now only one Q400 (14.25/17.00) is indicated per the seating plan.

BHX-Milan has been re-timed back an hour, similar to the summer timings but as the 175.

Pete

[cougafer]

Is BHD receiving a 3rd based E95 for Winter? When booking flights earlier, I noticed that a few of the MANs are showing E95 seatmaps, and the 475 (11.00 dep) seems to have stopped for winter - I would assume this is to operate the 405 BHX as mentioned above.

[JC25]

Yes I think an E195 is being taken out of Southampton and put into Belfast.

[adfly]

Does that leave 2 or 1 at SOU!? SOU seems to have quite a few cuts for the W12 vs W11.

Gains daily Q400 to Nantes
Loses:
5 weekly IOM
5 weekly BRU
6 weekly FRA
1 weekly BRN
Plus GVA and CMF are down to just 1 flight Sat and 1 flight Sun, last year there was at least double that in the peak season!

Its a shame SOU is so dependant on Flybe, was great at first when they were constantly expanding but they are really feeling the pinch now with all the cutbacks.

[BHD2BFS]

Is it such a good idea to increase the size of aircraft on the Man-Bhd route especially since easy now competes with them, why expand now when they have competition and not when baby dropped it and they had no other completion, seems silly to me

[redED]

@BHD2BFS Fleet reliability for the "hub" and to see off threat of EI(R) starting more routes?

[ALLMCC]

Might have been better to base a 175 if they could have spared one instead of an additional 195. Incidentally, where are the five 175s they have based?

[adfly]

Something like this:

1 INV (LGW route)
1 ABZ (LGW route)
1 BHX
1 MAN
1 GLA (SOU route)

Also from 1st November:

1 EDI (SOU route)

[redED]

7 based 175s;

1xABZ
2xBHX
1xGLA
1xINV
2xMAN

[adfly]

Ok so I guess EDI gets number 8 then!?

[hampshireandy]

JC25 , I got my info re cuts from the post by jetstreamtechrecords on 17th August.

[OltonPete]

adfly

It has been showing in the booking engine since at least 27/7/12 for EDI-SOU (three daily in the week) with a start date of 1st October.

Whether that happens I suppose will depend on deliveries.

Pete

[Maverick8701]

I would take anything JSTR says with a pich of salt! I understand he works for Eastern? So is he really going to have any commercially sensitive info? Any info he has is a) gossip or b) second hand info at best....

JSTR - would you like to declare your sources?

Not to say it isn't true I have heard rumours of cuts but no confirmed detail or source just crewroom gossip.

[Serenity]

Shame about the tail strike on the dash!!!

[OltonPete]

Serenity

Re the Q400 is this the reason for the BHX base operating today as: -

5 x 195

2 x 175

3 x Q400

I can't remember so few Q400's for many a long day at BHX.

Something happened to a 175 today as well with the BHX-GLA operating on schedule but the return was cancelled and the aircraft positioned back to BHX lunchtime to then operate a Q400 flight to Inverness.

Another busy day in flybeland.

Pete

Just noted the 175 was pinched to operate GLA-MAN-GLA and I assume the BHX pax were shunted onto the lunchtime flight.

[Serenity]

Yes. Dash tail strike in Rennes.
Out for a while I believe.

seems they are having to consulte with Bombardier on getting it back to the UK.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Flybe going to Heathrow (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/branson-reaches-for-the-sky-as-he-bounces-back-from-rail-snub-8070017.html)?

[Maverick8701]

2 chances of Flybe operating scheduled services into LHR slim and none. If you can't make money domestic with LGW you have no chance at LHR.

Now operating as a wet lease for Virgin.....possibly however I thought that was sorted with an airbus?

[cornishsimon]

The virgin domestic services are being operated with A319 equipment, when did flybe have these in the fleet ?


cs

[Burpbot]

Mav, Flybe have operated into LHR for months now of a weekend! Always nice to know the facts not prune bs ;)

[JimNich]

The Virgin domestic services will be run on whatever Branson can get his hands on at the best possible price (but not a prop, London pax hate those). However, as always the problem will be, who makes the money? Any feeder service being ticketed by the long haul operator will never make any cash. I believe the old BA-CityExpress/BAconnect set up used to go like this: Ticket (for instance) Aberdeen to LA Via LHR, Total distance about 5800 miles, ticket cost, one way, say 300 pounds for arguement's sake. But, distance from ABZ to LHR is about 400 miles which is about 7% ish. So BA hand over to Cityexpress/BAconnect 40ish quid for their share of the journey (full service remember), no wonder they never made any geld.

I can't believe it would be any different under Virgin but it makes sense that Branson will use someone else on a wet lease for the first few years.

[Boing7117]

Probably worth clarifying that Flybe have only been flying into LHR recently as part of the Brussels Airlines wet lease.

It's a Brussels Airlines flight which operates into LHR. It just so happens that Brussels Airlines use the Flybe Q400 in Brussels Airlines livery operated by Flybe crew.

[Cyrano]

The Virgin domestic services will be run on whatever Branson can get his hands on at the best possible price (but not a prop, London pax hate those). However, as always the problem will be, who makes the money? Any feeder service being ticketed by the long haul operator will never make any cash. I believe the old BA-CityExpress/BAconnect set up used to go like this: Ticket (for instance) Aberdeen to LA Via LHR, Total distance about 5800 miles, ticket cost, one way, say 300 pounds for arguement's sake. But, distance from ABZ to LHR is about 400 miles which is about 7% ish. So BA hand over to Cityexpress/BAconnect 40ish quid for their share of the journey (full service remember), no wonder they never made any geld.


What you describe is a "straight rate prorate" which indeed never makes money for the short haul operator, and that's why typically either the formula is tweaked to give more to the operator of the shorter sector, or there is a "proviso" or minimum amount payable. I can't speak to the particular BACX prorate setup, but within one parent company there could be reasons to make one or other part of the organisation look good or bad :hmm:

[Maverick8701]

Burpbot,

As Boing 7117 confirms I was talking about flybe selling seats and actually operating the Flybe 'product' into LHR. I am aware of the crews doing the Brusssels Airlines wet lease into LHR would love a shot at that although can't see it happening.

Cornish Simon...I would love an airbus TR but realise we have none. Was purely posing the question is there a signed airbus contract somewhere for an operator to do the virgin work or will they give airlines the opportunity to bid for it?

Surely the ejet is perfect size wise? Could then expand the agreement if virgin got the edi abz routes and have the short haul network from one provider with a mixture of 175 and 195 to suit demand. Not sure if BA would have a say in it though can they with just 15%??? Can't see WW would be too happy Flybe operating for Virgin.

Anyway just posing the questions for a debate.......

[Burpbot]

Mav, you said Flybe wouldn't operate into lhr, I pointed out they do. Welcome aboard this SN brussels flight operated today by Flybe ☺So yes Flybe do operate into lhr. Although do agree cant see it ever happening on a pure Flybe service! As for virgin, wingo I agree with your logic however would bet BA would see it as taking premium traffic away from premium long haul routes so not like it. In the same way long haul and euro routes were always made "less competitive" from Bhx and man. Leading to a ten year withdrawal from the regions. Shame as it would be a nice earner for Flybe.

[JC25]

I don't think BA would have much interest in who operated the flights for VS, Flybe or not. And more importantly, BA have no representation on the BE board. As the board has an obligation to try and maximise returns for share holders, they surely wouldn't turn down potential revenue incase the upset a minor shareholder.

[LGS6753]

This could work if both airlines sold tickets on a code-share basis. Or if Branson pays for 50% of the seats with an option on more, and FlyBe operate the service and sell the rest.....

Just a thought, but would it fly?

[Maverick8701]

Haha fair point burpbot I will be more concise with my wording in future ;)

[jabird]

Brother reporting he flew INV-BHX on Wed, operated by Denim Air, afaik on an F50. Is this anything to do with the tailstrike a/c going tech?

[CaptainDoony]

There's been a F50 I believe based at BHX for a while now. Been seen up in ABZ regularly of late.

Think it was drafted in after the incident in the IoM.

[OltonPete]

jabird

As CaptainDoony has stated the Denim has been in and out for about three months covering the IOM incident and the WDL 146 today I trust was covering the Rennes incident.

At other times the BHX spare 195 covers one of the Q400's but this is not always possible. The Denim has been used on IOM, ABZ, WAT, INV, and EDI to name but a few.

The WDL was on the 175 GLA flight tonight with the 175 going on the ABZ.

The Denim tonight was used for Hanover.

[jabird]

Thanks for the replies, that is what I expected.

[OltonPete]

"CI" seems to be back in service now at BHX since 1/9/12 - I believe this was the tail-strike aircraft, so it was out for just over a week.

Gatwick

From the Aberdeen thread it is indicated that LGW-ABZ will cease after summer and aircraft placed on BHX-ABZ. LGW-ABZ is zeroed out already by the look of it and do we know if the 175 will be BHX based or remain in Aberdeen with timetable changes put in place?

I am not sure if it has been mentioned before or standard practice for winter but BHD-LGW is showing four daily for winter compared to the five daily in the week during summer.

The flight that has disappeared matches the schedule for the re-timed BHD-BHX BE405, which was a BHX based 175/195 and is now a BHD based 195.

BHX-INV also now showing in winter, as an Inverness based Q400 despite BHX's Q400's virtually doing nothing in the day other than the four a week WAT.

I did a rough calculation a week or two ago for the first week in November and it showed 62 aircraft required to operate the schedule with a fleet total of 65-68 depending on 175 deliveries and "CH" flying again but things seem to fluid to say the least.

[irishlad06]

The 5th rotation on BHD to LGW was operated by a dash daily. Although bhd is getting a 3rd 195 for the winter apparently, so will prob be op by that aircraft if it is bhd based. Apparently it's coming from SOU.

[redED]

Apparently the 3rd Embraer will be doing Manchester all day.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

does anyone know where the 4th airframe thats being taken out in November is comeing from? MAN, BHX and EDI are definite to loose one apeice :confused:

[Artic Monkey]

4th from EXT

[Tonyq]

Doesn't it come from closing the small base at LGW and relocating the NTE service to SOU?

[airhumberside]

Whats being reduced at EDI to release an aircraft? BE timetable shows same number of weekday early departures in winter as operating now

[OltonPete]

airhumberside

Could it be the next 175 that is due and expected to operate EDI-SOU from 1/10/2012?

This would free-up another Q400 and as I have posted on the BHX thread, the 175 transferring from ABZ-LGW to ABZ-BHX will free up another.

Manchester is mentioned on the list as losing another, is this the Brussels Q400, as that is next week and I haven't noticed any other changes?

SOE on another thread has mentioned INV-LGW moving to a Q400 although it is still showing as the 175 in the booking engine yesterday.

Artic Monkey Does Exeter have three based aircraft at present, as two seems sufficient this winter?

[airhumberside]

Thanks - that would explain the EDI situation

[Artic Monkey]

Pete

Yes there's 3 based aircraft, 2 x Q400 and 1 x E195. There's also 1 x Q400 in NQY which is crewed by the EXT crew. This obviously leaves 1 x Q400 in EXT for the winter but apparently they are not losing any routes so I assume they are being flown by "through" flights from other bases.

[Set 1013]

So does anybody have any ideas what will happen to the crew down there in EXT? Obviously there is enough crew for 3 dashes, but only 2 aircraft (1 EXT & 1 NQY) to crew.

[redED]

SOE on another thread has mentioned INV-LGW moving to a Q400 although it is still showing as the 175 in the booking engine yesterday.

No chance. Easy would wipe the floor with them. Might as well pull off the route all together.

[IOMspotter]

it was announced yesterday that is exactly what they are doing.:eek:

[rm81]

Does anyone know why there is a return flight BE8847/LOG847 from Stornoway to Birmingham operating for today only?

[ara01jbb]

Looks like BE656 (NCL-NQY) just diverted into MAN - number 2 engine failure?

[cornishsimon]

Looks like BE656 (NCL-NQY) just diverted into MAN - number 2 engine
failure?



Still estimated into NQY at 1552 ;)

[ihadcontrol]

Yep number 2 failed
Non pilot mate onboard, sounds like oil leak from what he said.

[cornishsimon]

On a related note, looking at the stats for the NCL route its not doing too badly, 500 plus passengers a month on a 1 weekly saturday route.

Anyone know what BE plans for NQY ?

[Flightrider]

INV-LGW is going to 2 x daily 175 this winter with the midday flight dropped. The 175 will be operating the AMS midday which frees up the Q400 between the morning and evening MAN rotations to do the BHX as well.

[Skipness One Echo]

Thrice daily ERJ190 to twice daily ERJ175 in a year? That's not gonna last to the summer if frequent flyers choose easyJet for the off peak and don't come back.

[Snigs]

Regarding the Engine issue, it was an IFSD due to fluctuating oil temp and ITT. The aircraft diverted to MAN, which as luck would have it was where the a/c and crew are based. The flight was then continued to NQY on a Emb175.

Not a big deal, in fact it probably wasn't an issue at all, but we'll have to wait and see about that!

[mizake the mizzen]

Just looking at some random dates in the flybe booking engine, and midday INV-LGW-INV is still bookable.

INV-LGW 07:10-08:55 BE7320 LGW-INV 09:25-11:10 BE7321
INV-LGW 12:25-14:10 BE7324 LGW-INV 14:40-16:25 BE7325
INV-LGW 17:05-18:50 BE7326 LGW-INV 19:20-21:05 BE7327

Random dates selected were Wed 12Dec. Fri 11Jan, Mon 11Feb, Tue 19Feb..

Surely if the decision had been made to drop the midday service it would be on stopsale by now?
The seat selection page shows E175/88Y operating the lunchtime flight on these dates...although Row 3+4 and Row 19 are not pre bookable (so that would take the available seat count down to 78Y = Q400)...

[descendwhenready]

RE: EDI Winter Schedule

EDI-NWI is to be reduced from 2x daily to a 1x daily mid-morning flight, which frees up an airframe.

[Tonyq]

Accordingto Jethro's, BE are to park up 4 x Q400's for the winter. This will be in additon to the two additional aircraft heading off to Brussels. However, the same source also shows 4 x E175's due to arrive over the same period.

[BOHEuropean]

Flybe did indeed announce to staff a reduction of 4x Q400s this winter.

[airhumberside]

EDI-NWI is to be reduced from 2x daily to a 1x daily mid-morning flight, which frees up an airframe.
Not showing on BE's website (yet anyway)

[BHD2BFS]

Anyone here know if the rumor is true that LGW-BHD is being dropped?

[Aero Mad]

May I put an elephant in the room? With competition on BHD, GCI, JER, INV, ABZ and IOM - could we see a complete withdrawal from Gatwick by Flybe?

[davidjohnson6]

Aero - apart from Aurigny, who else flies London-Guernsey ?
Would have thought that routes to GCI, JER and IOM would probably be the least likely to be dropped by flyBE out of all the Gatwick routes, given BE's general grip on air transport to these islands

[Aero Mad]

apart from Aurigny, who else flies London-Guernsey

You say 'apart from Aurigny', but that's the point... Aurigny is there competing. Nobody else does, but GR is strong competition and has more than 50% of the market share on this route.

[redED]

Anyone here know if the rumor is true that LGW-BHD is being dropped?

Not true, and check the prices out, looks like flybe is taking the flight to them, last time I looked flybe were undercutting Lingus on similar timings by a couple of quid every time, some one-ways as low as £16.50!

[insuindi]

The issue with the half redundant spare Dash at BHX may have been resolved. HAJ has been reduced to 7/7 for the winter and re-timed to a late morning BHX departure Mon-Fri. In addition to the time changes for the Sat (3h later) and Sun flights (3h earlier) this route's schedule has become a lot less attractive now.

[Cloud1]

New routes announced today for S13 between Exeter and Barcelona, also return of the Nice.

Both operate twice weekly

Good to see some new routes being announced particularly from the likes of Exeter. Hopefully we shall see some more over the next few months!

[globetrotter79]

Does this mean some other flying on the E195 is being dropped in order to fit the BCN in?

[Cloud1]

Not entirely sure yet - I have two thoughts on this, the E195 wasnt used to its full potential even in the summer when it was often seen doing the MAN sectors. In theory you could get 3 spanish destinations out of it during a day with an early morning start and a late finish.

Or, as suggested in a recent staff letter the Q400 that is being removed from Exeter for the winter may be replaced by a E175. This may be the one used for Barcelona as it will be a new route and new destination?

[MerchantVenturer]

In the news story on EXT's official website, the Flybe director of marketing is quoted:

With passengers able to enjoy the comfortable seating offered by our 118-seat Embraer 195 jet aircraft, this announcement further reinforces Flybe’s commitment to bringing convenient, affordable travel to the South West...............

So Nice returns after an absence of four years. A sign that the airline believes this type of market might be improving?

[Set 1013]

This is good news!

However the website says "seats are available to book NOW" to Nice and Barcelona. But you can't book them! They are not there. You can book flights to nice via cdg AF code share at the cost of a small mortgage.

Come on guys! This is why people think we are an amateur airline. Epic fail again Flybe.

[adfly]

Just awaiting SOU-BCN to say goodbye to Vueling, can't have competition at SOU now can we!!

[Maverick8701]

Set 1013 they were bookable when I looked. Appeared to start on April 04th....

[insuindi]

EXE-NCE/BCN indeed bookable, with very attractive pricing (potentially error fares): EXE-NCE one-way just under £24 on most dates.

EDIT 14SEP: £24 flights have gone, now more usual FlyBE prices.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Link (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/flybe-pulls-gatwick-to-aberdeen-route-adding-spark-to-the-london-scotland-connectivity-debate-82681)

What have they got left in Aberdeen now?

[davidjohnson6]

Spandex - Belfast, Birmingham and Manchester, summer-only Jersey, codeshare on AF to Paris-CDG and a franchise on Loganair to the islands ?

[Rivet Joint]

Surely the BCN route from SOU is a no brainer for BE now? The 90 pax it is currently getting would fit very well on the 195 3 times a week. Surely the market has been tested now? Going to hazard a guess that BE carry on ignoring this obvious route as they have done since 2004 though!

Newsflash BE, if you have a monopoly build on it, spreading yourself thin in a foolish attempt to put your fingers in every pie leads to all the bricks tumbling down :ugh:. Route/ fleet reductions and whoring yourself out to flag carriers anyone? :rolleyes:

[Cloud1]

Flybe cannot win, either they are getting stick for having a monopoly or being told to exploit it.

With respect Rivetjoint, Vueling have not yet confirmed they are not returning next year. Also, 90 passenger may have been an average but whats the yield? If BE have to sell every seat for £40 they are not going to want to do the route as it simply would not pay for itself let alone make any profit.

Flybe have not done badly out of Southampton, and likewise Southampton and its residents have not done badly out of Flybe. It remains one of the largest stations and I am sure those responsible for routes know far more of what they are doing than any of us on here.

[offint]

Can't book a flight in October or beyond so emailed FlyBe who confirmed the route was being dropped at the end of this month.

[gearupflapsupshutup]

With no LBA EXT do they now fly to ABZ direct from EXT?

[Richard Taylor]

For ABZ - EXT, all change at MAN.

[insuindi]

There is still a fair bit of movement in the timetabling for the winter period, now the BHX-STR morning flight has been pushed back by 3h. That makes day returns from STR pretty much impossible.

[OltonPete]

insuindi

I think that is an understatement to say the least, have a look at Aberdeen - Manchester in November, three daily in the week with the reverse MAN-ABZ five daily :\

ABZ-BHX is now down to 2 x 175 & 2 x Q400 and is now shared with Manchester.

As for STR moving back three hours, as it stands with it linking into the schedule it makes no sense utilisation wise, as the base still requires 9 aircraft unless Stuttgart is reduced to daily and the Hanover is changed to a 175/195.

Once the BHD and EDI 195's arrive back at 10.05 and 10.20 respectively neither fly until the afternoon. The 175 arriving back from GLA at 1000 doesn't fly until 13.05 MXP and the 10.50 DUS until 13.55 DUS.

It looks as if another aircraft is about to be freed up unless it is to arrange a spare for the morning rush, which with Q400's I suppose is wise and they have done this in previous winters.

flybe must know exactly how many passengers use Stuttgart for day trips, as taking the passenger figures in isolation it suggests that daily as a jet would suffice but I assume yields must be good enough to keep it at double daily for so long and they must be confident that the time change won't put business passengers off. I hope they are right and it is not the beginning of the end of this route.

Pete

[Richard Taylor]

When it comes to my home airport, I think Flybe are taking the p*ss. Either they serve it properly, or they pull out totally & let the likes of bmir & Eastern serve it with adequate frequencies. I don't think Flybe know what to do when it comes to serving ABZ. Lots of promises down the years, not much action. A familiar tale for many airports served by them.

[Cloud1]

Richard, I normally read your posts with interest but your comments are a little juvenile. Flybe serve Aberdeen pretty well all things considering, the only thing to happen recently is that they are pulling the LGW which they have operated for a couple of years. You cannot say they did not give it a proper go.

ABZ are retaining the E175 to continue the BHX route, and MAN remains at a reasonable frequency. ABZ also still has the BHD route, numerous franchise flights with Loganair and a codeshare on the Air France to CDG.

The fact is, they have not released their schedule yet. So it is no good everyone trying to guess what is happening, I mean that is just ridiculous. There could well be new routes planned - nobody was expecting a BCN route to be announced from Exeter. Thats not just a new route but a whole new destination.

Sure BE have said in the past Scandinavia was on the cards as well as a Norwich but it hasnt happened. Times change, and its not as if ABZ do not currently have those destinations served.

Cut them some slack and just be patient. I wouldnt mind betting if Flybe were to ever say right then Aberdeen, time to pull the plug on all our operations there would be tantrums gallore.

[OltonPete]

Cloud1

I am surprised at the amount of changes so close to the winter schedule, it is almost too difficult to keep track off and I sure it is driven by the need to cut costs but I can't remember so much change in such a short space of time.

Prompted by the Gatwick thread it seems that the Jersey based 195 is on its way to Glasgow to operate GLA-SOU with the Glasgow based 175 going to be based in Jersey for the Gatwick service.

I assume that ABZ-MAN is just a glitch and will be sorted after the weekend but do we know if it is reducing to three daily or will it be restored to five?

No more new 175's scheduled as yet after the next one is delivered next week when EDI-SOU changes from the Q400.

Pete

[JobsaGoodun]

We're in the middle of the biggest economic downturn that this (and many other EU) countries have seen, coupled with record fuel prices. In addition, with the new owners at LGW putting huge price rises in for airlines using the airport it is no wonder that you're seeing changes from Flybe (LGW's third largest slot holder) and very little by way of expansion.

All of our purse strings are being tightened through current austerity measures and I think that for many, the priorities have changed. The weekend breaks that many used to take have become disposable to protect the annual summer holiday. This is most likely why Flybe is adjusting services on domestic routes, and looking to operate EXTNCE which has returned, and EXTBCN is which is due to commence.

I can understand that the rhetoric of airlines is to start routes and promise many more but this can only happen if the new routes can be supported and at present, I just don't think they can. If ABZ can't support Flybe on LGW - a very well established route then there certainly isn't the investment there for untried routes.

Richard - this post isn't geared at you personally so please don't take offence. I guess I'm just trying to balance the argument that you and many others support.

What I would say is that when you look at the likes of Ryanair or BMIbaby (RIP) and examine just how many times they started bases (BHD/MME/CWL etc), only to pull them entirely at a later date, at least we can be grateful that Flybe continues to offer local jobs to local people with a good job security in the regions.

[Cloud1]

OltonPete - many changes being made, and I expect the fact that 4 aircraft are being removed has not helped schedule planning. They obviously work the schedules from the number of aircraft in the fleet so to suddenly be told four are coming out, it may mean things need to be juggled about a bit.

Also, I expect like last year it is BEs intention to operate many more flights on a charter basis to the ski destinations on the jets. With more jets in the fleet there is more opportunity for the airline to go out to the tour operators and get business. Whilst this will only probably affect weekend schedules it is something that I expect is also contributing to a rather messy schedule at the moment.

I have not heard anything on the ABZMAN but I wouldnt be surprised if it went to 3. Most destinations see a reduction due to the winter months, the only difference this year is whether or not this is affected by the fact that Manchester is now a hub.

Time will tell, but IIRC the schedule should be ready by mid-end of October - so only a few more weeks :ok:

On a side note, I have to say I am surprised the STR is still around! I dont remember it being overly busy and I would be very shocked if yield was that high in turned over a profit. HAM was binned, overall DUS isnt too bad now its on the jet and the HAJ is quite often busy so I expected STR to go a long time ago myself. Something on that one must be ticking the boxes!

[guern123]

With all these changes us poor folk here in GCI are still waiting for the E175's. We all know the story of the runway being re done etc... but bring them on ASAP. I'm not too sure by how much but I know the market share has dropped and now Aurigny fly the most passengers. It also does appear that Flybe are having a bit of a fight back though. Lots of adverts in the local press advertising the fact that they are the most ontime airline to london, and lots of advertising else where including the Guernsey Airport Flight Arrivals website. Personally i cant see why locals use Aurginy prices are roughy the same yet in my opinion the Dash is the better option - it's quieter, smoother, quciker normally a 35min flight compared to 50/55mins. And on the return leg when you get to LGW you can check your bags in early, with Aurigny the checkin desk opens 2hours before the flight so if you have just flown in from else where early you cart your luggage around until they open the desk. Also when booking seat allocation is better on flybe you can choose any seat that is available, on the ATR they only let you choose the seats by the wings 1st to trim the AC thats no good if you find that area noisey. On the plus side to Aurigny you do get a free coffee and paper and the staff are more customer based. But if like me you want to book online and go then flybe has to be the airline to choose (unless there is a great price difference). I know flybe look at these posts so i think if you want your market share LGW-GCI to rise bring back the Jet servcie ASAP. I feel Aurigny have 2 advanages at the moment the 1st being with both airlines being so close on price and aircraft type people will always choose the cheapest get the jet on board and i'm sure people will use it and would also still use it if it cost slightly more just to save time. Secondly and this one is based at family travel the whole holiday market has changed people book REALLY early with tour operators and they know to get cheap GCI-LGW connecting flights they have to book those early, on the Aurigny site this can be done 12months in advance flybe 5-8 months. The amount of time i have looked 12 months before our next vacation and nearly booked myself, wife and 2 kids with aurigny just to make sure the seats are cheap not wishing to wait for the flybe prices in case they are more you would not belive - but i always wait and costs are always about the same. But being able to book 1 year ahead should also net more passengers.

[Richard Taylor]

No offence taken chaps & we're allowed to disagree now & then!

I know all airlines do it & I guess it's a sign o' the times, but I get frustrated when airlines say they are expanding at a particular airport when all they've done is stick their flight number on a route operated by another airline & call it a code share, for example. Maybe I'm just old fashioned!

But Flybe have dangled so many carrots at ABZ over the years you could open a vegetable stall!

I know Flybe have tried domestics at ABZ, but the problem has been not at business friendly times - NCL, CWL, SOU & even LBA. Whatever else Aberdeen is, it is very much business orientated (& high yield), & perhaps some airlines cannot grasp the concept of timing their flights accordingly. NCL & SOU came in on mid/late afternoon arrivals for instance, so your businessman/woman couldn't get in a full day's work if they wanted to catch the only rotation of the day offered by Flybe.

NE Scotland & Aberdeen has been just about the only area to be able to continue to grow its economy & this has been reflected at the airport, with consistent growth overall. Of course, I appreciate not all routes grow at the same time.

I just thought Flybe & ABZ were potentially well suited but that potential - especially increasingly routes to Europe, even with a Q400 - has not been fulfilled. Maybe the Flybe business model isn't as well matched to ABZ as I had previously thought.

[insuindi]

Cloud
"On a side note, I have to say I am surprised the STR is still around! I dont remember it being overly busy and I would be very shocked if yield was that high in turned over a profit. HAM was binned, overall DUS isnt too bad now its on the jet and the HAJ is quite often busy so I expected STR to go a long time ago myself. Something on that one must be ticking the boxes! "

The STR-route is a phenomen indeed - double daily for years and that with far fewer pax than on the HAJ routing. Having said that, the STR route has far higher fares, and has a far greater proportion of business travellers (who tend to book quite late, again, even higher fares. HAJ is a lot of army personnel&family/relatives). So STR has fewer pax, but they make up for it...

EDIT: To add to the mystery, individual rotations on the STR morning flight seem now to have disappeared for the last week of the summer schedule.