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If you want the full security screen try taking a baby with lots of baby milk to the usa. Then you will know what a lovely experience that is of course MAN security has a few moody people but nothing more or less then elsewhere. I have been plenty of times though the airport and through all 3 terminals. I had never really bad issues with MAN security. I usally use fast track and if you are nice to them i am sure they will be nice to you as well.
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Yes, Vokes. You got me. Describing an airport experience as 'average' and 'quickly forgettable for most' surely does meet the definition of cheerleading. Confirming that the airport security staff weren't beastly to me during my eight recent departures through MAN is surely cheerleading too. That just has to be a lie. Meanwhile, all readers scanning what you have written will instantly recognise your impartial and balanced assessment of the situation, so unlike my own. I must avoid getting so emotional when I post.
So ... You raise the issue of Transatlantic demand again. OK, I'll address your points, though I don't plan to divert this thread into an in-depth debate on the topic. LHR's situation is unique. Slots there change hands for exorbitant sums and are considered to be assets on an operator's balance sheet. Of course carriers will seek to protect their LHR slot bank, and if the opportunity to grab more slots arises they'll do that too. It's good business, and if it means diverting resources from other routes to sustain it, so be it. We're seeing that phenomenon in action.
Levels of customer demand reflect an unusual market situation. Many customers are holding travel vouchers issued in lieu of trips cancelled over the last two years of covidworld. If left unused, these risk expiry - in most cases during this calendar year. So the pressure is on for travellers to cash them in and use them while they can. In addition to this market, we also have many people who have been unable to meet with family and friends for upto three years ... large numbers will do what it takes to rectify that in the short-term. Of course, many of these customers are voucher-holders too. So airlines are seeing a demand bulge based primarily on these two factors. The problem is, will this level of demand be sustained once those vouchers have been redeemed and the reunions and delayed weddings have played out? How much new money is really coming in on ticket sales? We don't yet know, but inflation pressures, soaring fuel prices and the cost of living crisis may offer us some clues on that. The airlines will be in no hurry to commit to additional long-term risk until things become alot clearer. And we don't yet know whether a new raft of covid measures will be reimposed this coming Winter. Hopefully not, but we can't rule it out.
Now your reference to Edinburgh, Dublin and 'little old Shannon' (as you call it). Are you acquainted with historic migration patterns? The market for bringing Irish-Americans across for a visit to their spiritual home is absolutely enormous. Scotland enjoys a good measure of this too, and also enjoys a positive tourism profile for US customers who enjoy heritage, whisky, golf and the rest. So Ireland and Scotland are a big draw for eastbound US-domiciled leisure travellers. Many will hold vouchers based on unfulfilled travel to these destinations. The market at Manchester is quite different in composition. Passengers using Transatlantic services from Manchester are heavily skewed towards UK-domiciled customers. This is a big reason why we see brands familiar with the UK-originating market dominating here. Delta is backing their Virgin Atlantic partner brand for the Manchester market. Oneworld has switched to Aer Lingus metal. United is looking to return when market conditions become more predictable. TUI is back in the Florida market. Rapidly-expanding US independents are assessing the Manchester proposition.
If you can supply load factor and yield data for the Aer Lingus long-haul base at MAN, please do share with us. You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Though I do point out that Aer Lingus is in an unusual situation. The EUK Transatlantic operation is a new start-up, so their loads will not be bulked-up by voucher holders who have seen earlier trips cancelled. Aer Lingus needs to attract completely new bookings, and that isn't easy in this market.
That's where we are, but by all means cling to your narrative that all US carriers have exited Manchester because they hate the airport experience and 'the place is a dump and not fit for purpose' ... I presume that this includes the brand new T2 infrastructure which the remaining Transatlantic services are now using? Yes, that must be it.
So ... You raise the issue of Transatlantic demand again. OK, I'll address your points, though I don't plan to divert this thread into an in-depth debate on the topic. LHR's situation is unique. Slots there change hands for exorbitant sums and are considered to be assets on an operator's balance sheet. Of course carriers will seek to protect their LHR slot bank, and if the opportunity to grab more slots arises they'll do that too. It's good business, and if it means diverting resources from other routes to sustain it, so be it. We're seeing that phenomenon in action.
Levels of customer demand reflect an unusual market situation. Many customers are holding travel vouchers issued in lieu of trips cancelled over the last two years of covidworld. If left unused, these risk expiry - in most cases during this calendar year. So the pressure is on for travellers to cash them in and use them while they can. In addition to this market, we also have many people who have been unable to meet with family and friends for upto three years ... large numbers will do what it takes to rectify that in the short-term. Of course, many of these customers are voucher-holders too. So airlines are seeing a demand bulge based primarily on these two factors. The problem is, will this level of demand be sustained once those vouchers have been redeemed and the reunions and delayed weddings have played out? How much new money is really coming in on ticket sales? We don't yet know, but inflation pressures, soaring fuel prices and the cost of living crisis may offer us some clues on that. The airlines will be in no hurry to commit to additional long-term risk until things become alot clearer. And we don't yet know whether a new raft of covid measures will be reimposed this coming Winter. Hopefully not, but we can't rule it out.
Now your reference to Edinburgh, Dublin and 'little old Shannon' (as you call it). Are you acquainted with historic migration patterns? The market for bringing Irish-Americans across for a visit to their spiritual home is absolutely enormous. Scotland enjoys a good measure of this too, and also enjoys a positive tourism profile for US customers who enjoy heritage, whisky, golf and the rest. So Ireland and Scotland are a big draw for eastbound US-domiciled leisure travellers. Many will hold vouchers based on unfulfilled travel to these destinations. The market at Manchester is quite different in composition. Passengers using Transatlantic services from Manchester are heavily skewed towards UK-domiciled customers. This is a big reason why we see brands familiar with the UK-originating market dominating here. Delta is backing their Virgin Atlantic partner brand for the Manchester market. Oneworld has switched to Aer Lingus metal. United is looking to return when market conditions become more predictable. TUI is back in the Florida market. Rapidly-expanding US independents are assessing the Manchester proposition.
If you can supply load factor and yield data for the Aer Lingus long-haul base at MAN, please do share with us. You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Though I do point out that Aer Lingus is in an unusual situation. The EUK Transatlantic operation is a new start-up, so their loads will not be bulked-up by voucher holders who have seen earlier trips cancelled. Aer Lingus needs to attract completely new bookings, and that isn't easy in this market.
That's where we are, but by all means cling to your narrative that all US carriers have exited Manchester because they hate the airport experience and 'the place is a dump and not fit for purpose' ... I presume that this includes the brand new T2 infrastructure which the remaining Transatlantic services are now using? Yes, that must be it.
My narrative isn’t that US carriers have exited MAN because “they” hate the airport experience, it’s almost entirely due to demand. But demand is created or lost on a number of factors - airport experience, customer feedback, disruption data being some of them - and the current state of the place isn’t going to win them back any time soon.
As for Aer Lingus, 102 on MCO yesterday, 114 on Tuesday and 108 on Monday. Inbound 72 on Tuesday, 89 yesterday and 61 today. JFK similar numbers but faring slightly better thanks to being on a smaller aircraft. Furthermore, these routes are nothing to do with Oneworld. They are point to point routes plugging a gap left by Thomas Cook and attempting to trash VS yields. If the routes were operating in lieu of AA, they’d be going into major hubs like PHL, ORD or CLT. The only Oneworld presence at MAN for the Transatlantic market is via LHR (or DUB).
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Passenger processing through T3 at MAN resumed effective 22nd April. This resolved the issue of Ryanair and EasyJet passengers being security-processed through the same channels in T1, a major factor in the problem periods reported prior to this. But now departing passengers are being processed through facilities in all three terminals as was the case before covid. Also known as operating normally (as I wrote).
Sorry that this state of affairs doesn't fit your narrative of eternal meltdown at MAN so that you can insist that all customers should instead travel via LPL. You really are too transparent, but I applaud your tireless dedication to your cause.
Sorry that this state of affairs doesn't fit your narrative of eternal meltdown at MAN so that you can insist that all customers should instead travel via LPL. You really are too transparent, but I applaud your tireless dedication to your cause.
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SECURITY
Went through T1 yesterday for 0705 easyjet to Amsterdam arrived at 0530hrs with hand luggage only no queue at all at security was through in less than 5 minutes
Returned at 1430hrs again no queue at passport control and out in less than 5 minutes
Honestly it's a lottery one day you sail through the next you don't, went to Palma 3 weeks ago arrive at 5am queue was outside to doors going onto drop off on level 5 at the far end , but to my surprise we was through in 40 minutes
must admit staff have got power going to their heads put my mobile phone into tray along with a small clear bag and a cardigan only but the phone had the charger lead attached was told to remove it before going through , seriously what difference does it make, previously been asked what's in the clear plastic bag, these are the bags issued when you join the queue, and no there was no small liquids in bag just car keys passport boarding cards, they do not help themselves, and yes on the other hand passengers don't help especially usually the female holiday makers with everything in their hand luggage
On return yesterday no queue whats so ever at passport control but we was directed to boarder control for manual check even though all 10 e-gates were open but not being used,luckily I just redirected myself to e-gate and went through no problem, then everyone else just followed the same, but it's these small things that give the staff bad reputation and can be easily avoided,
Returned at 1430hrs again no queue at passport control and out in less than 5 minutes
Honestly it's a lottery one day you sail through the next you don't, went to Palma 3 weeks ago arrive at 5am queue was outside to doors going onto drop off on level 5 at the far end , but to my surprise we was through in 40 minutes
must admit staff have got power going to their heads put my mobile phone into tray along with a small clear bag and a cardigan only but the phone had the charger lead attached was told to remove it before going through , seriously what difference does it make, previously been asked what's in the clear plastic bag, these are the bags issued when you join the queue, and no there was no small liquids in bag just car keys passport boarding cards, they do not help themselves, and yes on the other hand passengers don't help especially usually the female holiday makers with everything in their hand luggage
On return yesterday no queue whats so ever at passport control but we was directed to boarder control for manual check even though all 10 e-gates were open but not being used,luckily I just redirected myself to e-gate and went through no problem, then everyone else just followed the same, but it's these small things that give the staff bad reputation and can be easily avoided,
And yet despite all that, these carriers have restored almost their entire networks in Europe except flights to Manchester?
Do tell us which “rapidly-expanding US independents” are “assessing the Manchester proposition”? You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Dare I say even if that were remotely true, they’d take one look at the place and it’s issues and walk away.
Furthermore, these routes are nothing to do with Oneworld. They are point to point routes plugging a gap left by Thomas Cook and attempting to trash VS yields. If the routes were operating in lieu of AA, they’d be going into major hubs like PHL, ORD or CLT. The only Oneworld presence at MAN for the Transatlantic market is via LHR (or DUB).
Addressing the issue of the Thomas Cook collapse (which came before covid dominated all thinking), IAG was left with a challenging dilemma. Leave Virgin-Delta to develop an unassailable position in the North, or take the plunge and compete with them directly. They chose the latter, and Aer Lingus UK was the vehicle set up for the purpose. So of course they're competing with Virgin robustly. That was the whole point. But, as we know, covid intervened between then and now. The launch of EUK was delayed and the proposed schedule pared back. The loadings you cite illustrate how difficult the current market is when voucher redemption passengers are stripped away.
If the routes were operating in lieu of AA, they’d be going into major hubs like PHL, ORD or CLT. The only Oneworld presence at MAN for the Transatlantic market is via LHR (or DUB).
In the quote above, you refer to Aer Lingus UK. May I invite you to look up the following flight numbers: BA6152/BA6153 and BA6154/6155. As I'm sure you will realise, BA is the flight code of Oneworld carrier British Airways, and these are their codeshare flight numbers on Aer Lingus UK's Orlando and New York JFK routes out of MAN.
Leave Virgin-Delta to develop an unassailable position in the North
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You exaggerate the extent of the return of US flights to continental Europe, but I do take your point. And even destinations which are back on the map don't necessarily enjoy the original frequencies. The issue which holds back MAN (and LGW, STN, BHX etc.) is geographical proximity to LHR, and in particular that it is accessible from the catchments of these airports by rail, coach and car overland. We discussed earlier why carriers will throw everything at protecting their LHR presence, so I won't repeat the details.
As for taking one look at the place and walking away, why haven't Bangladesh Biman, Kuwait Airways, Gulf Air, Corendon, Sun Express, Nice Air, Emerald or Aer Lingus UK themselves done that? They're all recent entrants or imminent new operators at MAN. Fortunately, carriers make decisions based on the business proposition. The whims of a random forum contributor with an axe to grind won't influence their decisions.
As for your analysis on Aer Lingus UK, I'd say you're being naive. It's a Virgin spoiler, nothing more and nothing less. If VS were to collapse tomorrow, Aer Lingus UK would be gone by Monday. Much like the MAN-LGW shuttle to ensure BA are represented in searches for MAN-ISB. IAG probably don't care if their MCO service only has 61 passengers onboard, as that's 61 passengers potentially taken from Virgin. They did the exact same thing with Norwegian in London. As you rightly point out, there is no AA code share on these flights because they're absolutely nothing to do with American, and American have no interest in MAN.
OK well I will tell my colleague he was making it all up.
As for the photos of passengers queued down the street all over Twitter etc, they must all be fake too.
I don't insist anyone flies from anywhere in particular, I just use LPL more because of ease of use, and highlight there is an alternative in the NW and there's nothing wrong with that.
Guess what?
MEN - Mixed bag at Manchester Airport as some complain about 'disgraceful' security queues - while others 'sail through'
MEN - Mixed bag at Manchester Airport as some complain about 'disgraceful' security queues - while others 'sail through'
It's been a mixed bag at Manchester today - with some people reporting 'absolutely disgraceful' security queues, and others 'sailing through'. One woman said the queue she experienced at security was 'genuinely ridiculous'.
1,600 applicants having applied for jobs at the airport in April alone, with 550 recruits on the floor since January, and 500 new starters currently going through vetting and security training. A further 200 workers are expected to join the operation in May, enabling management to open more security lanes in peak periods, and 'improve customer service'.
Ian Costigan, interim managing director of Manchester Airport, added: "We want to make sure that customers get away on their travels, so everyone at Manchester Airport is focused on bringing in the extra resources we need to continue operating our full flight schedule. It is encouraging to see new staff joining us as a result of our ongoing recruitment drive, and we have seen security waiting times reduce in recent weeks. The last few weeks have been challenging but the team on the ground has done a great job in getting passengers through security more quickly, and I would like to thank all colleagues for their hard work and dedication.
Ian Costigan, interim managing director of Manchester Airport, added: "We want to make sure that customers get away on their travels, so everyone at Manchester Airport is focused on bringing in the extra resources we need to continue operating our full flight schedule. It is encouraging to see new staff joining us as a result of our ongoing recruitment drive, and we have seen security waiting times reduce in recent weeks. The last few weeks have been challenging but the team on the ground has done a great job in getting passengers through security more quickly, and I would like to thank all colleagues for their hard work and dedication.
I dont think they care anymore!
Technically true but in all honesty, synergies and working together here must be almost zero. Aer Lingus UK was a desperate (but why not?) attempt by EI to get their aircraft flying again and in all honesty if they're still flying by next summer once DUB flying rebounds I'd be amazed. They're a stand alone operation as demonstrated by not even being in the same terminal as Aer Lingus, let alone BA.
On mainly point to point leisure I don't think Waterworld care in the least, on MAN-JFK/ATL possibly more so but if BA had any skin in the game they'd have fought to keep American having SOME presence at MAN. Immediately after the US/AA merger they had four daily flights on MAN-ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT, I don't think they care anymore.
On mainly point to point leisure I don't think Waterworld care in the least, on MAN-JFK/ATL possibly more so but if BA had any skin in the game they'd have fought to keep American having SOME presence at MAN. Immediately after the US/AA merger they had four daily flights on MAN-ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT, I don't think they care anymore.
I dont think they cared before!
Some years ago BA used to operate and B767 MAN-JFK ( as I am sure many will recall) and everytime I tried to book a flight ex MAN to JFK, they would try and route me through LHR.
Then they chopped the flight because it did not pay.
Of course it did not pay because BA would route passengers via LHR.
They NEVER 'cared' about MAN originating traffic !
Technically true
Aer Lingus UK was a desperate (but why not?) attempt by EI to get their aircraft flying again and in all honesty if they're still flying by next summer once DUB flying rebounds I'd be amazed. They're a stand alone operation as demonstrated by not even being in the same terminal as Aer Lingus, let alone BA.
It's a Virgin spoiler, nothing more and nothing less. If VS were to collapse tomorrow, Aer Lingus UK would be gone by Monday.
American having SOME presence at MAN. Immediately after the US/AA merger they had four daily flights on MAN-ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT, I don't think they care anymore.
United will be flying to Bergen, Palma, Tenerife and Naples this Summer, to name a few
As for your analysis on Aer Lingus UK, I'd say you're being naive.
Do you really need me to explain why the first five of those airlines you've listed have chosen to fly to Manchester?
Technically true = Actually true (but you wish it was not!).
I dont think they cared before! Some years ago BA used to operate and B767 MAN-JFK ( as I am sure many will recall) and everytime I tried to book a flight ex MAN to JFK, they would try and route me through LHR. Then they chopped the flight because it did not pay. Of course it did not pay because BA would route passengers via LHR. They NEVER 'cared' about MAN originating traffic !
Speaking of cold, given MAN has dropped so much transatlantic capacity, you really, really hope they're going to offer Norse Atlantic the sweetest of welcome deals.....?
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He is certainly a desperately unfortunate chap. But did he allow five hours or require five hours to get through security? Maybe he knew what you wanted to hear and over-egged the tale somewhat?
Not fake, but perhaps misrepresented. A photo cannot tell us how quickly the queue was moving, and that is important. Was one security lane open or many lanes? When were the photos taken - before April 22nd when T3 reopened fully, or since then? What queue is actually shown ... mainstream newspapers showed a "security queue" in which passengers had large suitcases with them ... clue: it was the TUI check-in queue! We've also seen plenty of instances where passengers have tweeted photos of the "security queue" at UK Border ... clue: it's actually the immigration queue which generally keeps moving at a slow walking pace. All is not as it seems, and some are motivated to sensationalise their experience.
Nothing wrong with promoting use of your local airport amongst your contacts. But it is not OK to misrepresent the experience at the competition in order to scare them into switching.
Not fake, but perhaps misrepresented. A photo cannot tell us how quickly the queue was moving, and that is important. Was one security lane open or many lanes? When were the photos taken - before April 22nd when T3 reopened fully, or since then? What queue is actually shown ... mainstream newspapers showed a "security queue" in which passengers had large suitcases with them ... clue: it was the TUI check-in queue! We've also seen plenty of instances where passengers have tweeted photos of the "security queue" at UK Border ... clue: it's actually the immigration queue which generally keeps moving at a slow walking pace. All is not as it seems, and some are motivated to sensationalise their experience.
Nothing wrong with promoting use of your local airport amongst your contacts. But it is not OK to misrepresent the experience at the competition in order to scare them into switching.
As for my workmate, I didn't ask anymore, he just said the whole process took him that long. He said he had not time to sit down and eat once in departures, had to grab a sandwich.
Perhaps some are misrepresented, but you will have to acknowledge enough people are disgruntled, that the issues cant just be waved away .
I too believe that US carriers are voting with their feet is a load of tosh. The experience isn’t great for sure but, unless there are notable reductions in pax numbers, do you honestly think the airlines care that much? And why do you think that UA minds but LH doesn’t?
Transatlantic has always been business and leisure orientated and both have taken a battering. Going East, the carriers have the added benefit of strong VFR traffic which isn’t as apparent to the states.
DL has VS at MAN, AA’s heart wasn’t particularly in it before covid and that was nothing to do with the airport experience either. That leaves UA.
Transatlantic has always been business and leisure orientated and both have taken a battering. Going East, the carriers have the added benefit of strong VFR traffic which isn’t as apparent to the states.
DL has VS at MAN, AA’s heart wasn’t particularly in it before covid and that was nothing to do with the airport experience either. That leaves UA.
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The United flights that are quoted in Europe all have 1 major thing in common, they are all big cruise destinations. Sadly as far as US leisure traffic is concerned the UK is purely London or to a lesser extent Edinburgh.
places like MAN, BHX etc have to rely on ex UK passengers ,which as far as USA is concerned is a long long way off pre pandemic levels. Added to which unless you live within 10 minutes of your local airport the attraction of saving a few quid and flying from say LGW is quite an incentive to your average UK holidaymaker at the moment.
I actually feel ,being a Brummie that MAN has always punched above its weight on US flights in the past and think it will return ,however i think the whole aviation industry has changed at the moment and nothing is certain at all
places like MAN, BHX etc have to rely on ex UK passengers ,which as far as USA is concerned is a long long way off pre pandemic levels. Added to which unless you live within 10 minutes of your local airport the attraction of saving a few quid and flying from say LGW is quite an incentive to your average UK holidaymaker at the moment.
I actually feel ,being a Brummie that MAN has always punched above its weight on US flights in the past and think it will return ,however i think the whole aviation industry has changed at the moment and nothing is certain at all
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Pretty confident the A321XLR will see action with AA, B6 and UA at Manchester. Philly, JFK and Newark with the possibility of Boston, Chicago and Washington I would have thought? Around the time the market has fully recovered and with the appropriate type for East Coast routes.
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United’s statement earlier in the year was VERY specifically worded in that the said not returning in 2022 . Not (not) returning period.
As for American they have also canned Edinburgh for this season ( through) late on.
Delta are operating less than daily to JFK ( fewer seats than Virgin out of Manchester) whilst Boston has been postponed till June and then summer only 4 days a week ( looks to rotate with JFK aircraft)
Manchester JFK/ Atlanta has more capacity for VS/DL through the entire season than Edinburgh !
Reading previous threads are people forgetting Virgin/Delta fly to Atlanta 4 days a week at the moment !
United have commenced Newark and Washington (summer) however Chicago start push back till July and then a short season through September
Then of course Manchester has two Virgin to Orlando a day ( several now on the 350-1000]
Plus those Aer Lingus daily JFK and regular Orlando
Singapore fly onto Houston 5 weekly
Finally TUi to Melbourne
The USA remains pretty well served all being said and Edinburgh capacity is lower than people think
As for American they have also canned Edinburgh for this season ( through) late on.
Delta are operating less than daily to JFK ( fewer seats than Virgin out of Manchester) whilst Boston has been postponed till June and then summer only 4 days a week ( looks to rotate with JFK aircraft)
Manchester JFK/ Atlanta has more capacity for VS/DL through the entire season than Edinburgh !
Reading previous threads are people forgetting Virgin/Delta fly to Atlanta 4 days a week at the moment !
United have commenced Newark and Washington (summer) however Chicago start push back till July and then a short season through September
Then of course Manchester has two Virgin to Orlando a day ( several now on the 350-1000]
Plus those Aer Lingus daily JFK and regular Orlando
Singapore fly onto Houston 5 weekly
Finally TUi to Melbourne
The USA remains pretty well served all being said and Edinburgh capacity is lower than people think
Last edited by Rutan16; 12th May 2022 at 20:20.
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Delta are operating less than daily to JFK ( fewer seats than Virgin out of Manchester) whilst Boston has been postponed till June and then summer only 4 days a week ( looks to rotate with JFK aircraft)
Manchester JFK/ Atlanta has more capacity for VS/DL through the entire season than Edinburgh !
Manchester JFK/ Atlanta has more capacity for VS/DL through the entire season than Edinburgh !
What does "for this season ( through) late on" mean?
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Delta daily from June and five daily Boston ( summer seasonal) remains lower than Manchester JFK/Atlanta combined .
Not being critical of Edinburgh at all, just adding perspective to this Manchester thread .
Manchester is down on the North Atlantic trade however its almost exclusively down to the demise of TCX and current termination of VS ventures on the West Coast.
As for Boston (and Miami) for what ever reason they just don’t work from Manchester; one to light on both business and VFR traffic ( healthy student traffic makes no money !) and the other well weak to none existent connecting traffic to Latin America it’s prime raison d’ être !´
Americans offerings beyond LHR/MAD/BCN and Rome is absolutely rubbish these days and Ozzie has covered that well enough.
Chicago has effectively been dehubbed going East with just LHR remaining year round!
Philadelphia is not what it was when a US Air base and reciprocal Pharma traffic to support it .
Frankly on wonders what value -AA put on their OWN Brand lift out of Europe in general these days