Manchester-3
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Ozzy, the issues with the MAN security staff are not a myth. They are well documented and go back a long way. In my experience, something changed significantly around the time of the departure of Gill Thompson. That may be coincidental, it may be not, but I know too many people personally who have had a poor experience withMAN security for it to be the odd bad apple. It’s down to bad management, nothing more than that.
BTW I haven't worked in aviation for a few years, the money's better elsewhere but I know a skewed data point when I see one.
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I have to support Ozzy on this, I by no means travel as much as I used to but probably transit the airport once a month at least. It is far from perfect, but not many airports are. I have never had a problem with security at Manchester they have always been polite, but that is probably as I am always polite to them also.
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Im with Skip on this one. As somebody who has been through security as crew (and pax) in more U.K. airports than not, MAN is by far the worst in this country, both in terms of waiting times/secondary search likelihood, and security staff attitude. God help you if you forget to remove your belt or epaulettes, or leave a lip balm in the bottom of your bag.
I had the full MAN experience a couple of weeks ago. The place is a dump, an embarrassment to the country. No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.
I had the full MAN experience a couple of weeks ago. The place is a dump, an embarrassment to the country. No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.
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People that make ‘Third World’ statements like above demonstrate they know nothing about the ‘third world’ and certainly have never been. If anything, airports in the ‘third world’ are often better than ours in terms of quality of service.
eye2eye5. I have always acknowledged that there are issues. Of course - but that is true in almost any large operation. However, I differ with the interpretation of some posters on the extent of these at MAN. Perspective is required. Read what I just wrote upthread ... sixteen recent journeys through MAN and no problems to get excited about. I'm either very lucky indeed or the extent of the problems is overhyped ... my money is on the latter. And certainly, I can't fault the attitude of the security staff I've interacted with in that time. They've been professional and friendly each time.
I am a great admirer of Gil Thompson's legacy. But I suspect that MAN has seen a 100% turnover in security staff since those days. It's a different world. Indeed, I suspect that there has been a 90% turnover of security staff since the emergence of covid. That's the crux of the problem: a large pool of completely new staff who need to obtain their airside security credentials and then learn the job. Those people aren't obnoxious. They're new, positive, and in the early weeks of learning a new job.
But, of course, on forums such as this, there are always one or two posters who bang their fists and demand acknowledgment that MAN is by far the worst airport in the entire world in every respect, and if you don't bow to that narrative then you're "tribally defending" the airport in some unreasonable way. The reality: Manchester Airport is pretty average. Not the best, not the worst (by far). Instantly forgotten for the majority of frequent travellers. In 99.9% of cases, it will do the job you need it to do. Get you from kerbside to aircraft or vice-versa with an adequate experience within a budget cost (for those who don't wish to pay extra for business lounges etc.).
I am a great admirer of Gil Thompson's legacy. But I suspect that MAN has seen a 100% turnover in security staff since those days. It's a different world. Indeed, I suspect that there has been a 90% turnover of security staff since the emergence of covid. That's the crux of the problem: a large pool of completely new staff who need to obtain their airside security credentials and then learn the job. Those people aren't obnoxious. They're new, positive, and in the early weeks of learning a new job.
But, of course, on forums such as this, there are always one or two posters who bang their fists and demand acknowledgment that MAN is by far the worst airport in the entire world in every respect, and if you don't bow to that narrative then you're "tribally defending" the airport in some unreasonable way. The reality: Manchester Airport is pretty average. Not the best, not the worst (by far). Instantly forgotten for the majority of frequent travellers. In 99.9% of cases, it will do the job you need it to do. Get you from kerbside to aircraft or vice-versa with an adequate experience within a budget cost (for those who don't wish to pay extra for business lounges etc.).
Sorry, do you mean Manchester, New Hampshire? MHT/KMHT? Good grief man.......
I know a skewed data point when I see one.
No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.
It is a little bit naughty to conflate your personal distaste for MAN with a suggestion that all US carriers have exited MAN during the biggest pandemic in the history of the industry because they have an issue with the airport's passenger experience!
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Since the start of March, I have travelled through MAN as SLF sixteen times. Eight departures, eight arrivals. Six of the eight departures were first wave (T1, T2), two around midday or early afternoon (T3). On those departures, I experienced a maximum security queueing time of around twenty minutes, and on two occasions there was no discernable queue at all. On two of the eight inbound services, I did encounter delays at UK Border of approximately 30 minutes and 20 minutes respectively. The first of these (30 minutes - T1) was caused by the sequential arrival of several EasyJet and Ryanair flights within a short space of time. However, those two carriers no longer arrive at the same terminal, so the issue is at least partially resolved. The other wait of 20 minutes - also in T1 - was again down to the arrival of several flights in a short space of time. But on both of these occasions, the queue kept moving at a slow walking pace. On the other six occasions, I was pretty much straight through. I've seen alot worse elsewhere, including at destination on a couple of these trips.
Of course, we are all aware that there have been occasions when queues at MAN have built up to an unreasonable degree. But this is not the norm. It makes the media because it is exceptional ... and they certainly make sure to take full advantage of hyping up every occurrence, giving the impression that such delays are far more common than they are in reality. On another forum, I've noted people discussing the crowds in the terminal airside which are overwhelming the catering franchises. This is because passengers are heeding advice to arrive three hours before their flight, but are actually finding themselves through all check-in and security formalities inside thirty minutes. At least airside retailers and caterers are finally experiencing some joy. However, it is also important to keep in mind that this situation is not unique to Manchester. The 'three hours before' advice is pretty much generic at larger European airports, and no larger airport has been immune from instances of security queues backing up.
Forums like this always attract one or two characters who like to vent that [insert name of airport] is the worst in the world, worst they've ever used etc. Well then, they can't have used many if they speak of MAN in that way. I've travelled through 464 airports worldwide, and frankly - for most passengers - MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience. It isn't in the top tier, but it is far removed from the really poor offerings as well.
If you're booked to fly out of MAN, don't fret or panic. Just allow a little extra time and chill. You'll be very unlucky to encounter the kind of queue which results in a missed flight unless YOU turn up at the last minute expecting to get away with cutting it fine. And remember this: some of those characters who trawl these threads spreading poison about the MAN passenger experience can be found in a cheerleading role on Liverpool Airport forums. Funny that. Maybe they post with an agenda which doesn't include the best interests of an unsuspecting reader on here?
Of course, we are all aware that there have been occasions when queues at MAN have built up to an unreasonable degree. But this is not the norm. It makes the media because it is exceptional ... and they certainly make sure to take full advantage of hyping up every occurrence, giving the impression that such delays are far more common than they are in reality. On another forum, I've noted people discussing the crowds in the terminal airside which are overwhelming the catering franchises. This is because passengers are heeding advice to arrive three hours before their flight, but are actually finding themselves through all check-in and security formalities inside thirty minutes. At least airside retailers and caterers are finally experiencing some joy. However, it is also important to keep in mind that this situation is not unique to Manchester. The 'three hours before' advice is pretty much generic at larger European airports, and no larger airport has been immune from instances of security queues backing up.
Forums like this always attract one or two characters who like to vent that [insert name of airport] is the worst in the world, worst they've ever used etc. Well then, they can't have used many if they speak of MAN in that way. I've travelled through 464 airports worldwide, and frankly - for most passengers - MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience. It isn't in the top tier, but it is far removed from the really poor offerings as well.
If you're booked to fly out of MAN, don't fret or panic. Just allow a little extra time and chill. You'll be very unlucky to encounter the kind of queue which results in a missed flight unless YOU turn up at the last minute expecting to get away with cutting it fine. And remember this: some of those characters who trawl these threads spreading poison about the MAN passenger experience can be found in a cheerleading role on Liverpool Airport forums. Funny that. Maybe they post with an agenda which doesn't include the best interests of an unsuspecting reader on here?
Allow a bit of extra time like 5 hours to pass through which one of my collegues experienced . He had just changed his next flight to ex Liverpool, and does not plan to use Manchester again. No fun travelling with 2 kiddies queued down the steet.
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Thanks to you all for the information...I was expecting carnage..They really are hopeless there ..I've bitten the expensive bullet and switched the outbound to Liverpool and travelling to Malaga instead of Gibraltar and crossing into Spain will be a lot easier there as well...
Liverpool security is apparently normal and they are even offering Fast track, which at £4 a head seems wise, at times like these..
Might even have time for brekkie at Frankie and Benny's..
Either way feeling much more relaxed now..Thanks again to you all
Liverpool security is apparently normal and they are even offering Fast track, which at £4 a head seems wise, at times like these..
Might even have time for brekkie at Frankie and Benny's..
Either way feeling much more relaxed now..Thanks again to you all
Im with Skip on this one. As somebody who has been through security as crew (and pax) in more U.K. airports than not, MAN is by far the worst in this country, both in terms of waiting times/secondary search likelihood, and security staff attitude. God help you if you forget to remove your belt or epaulettes, or leave a lip balm in the bottom of your bag.
I had the full MAN experience a couple of weeks ago. The place is a dump, an embarrassment to the country. No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.
I had the full MAN experience a couple of weeks ago. The place is a dump, an embarrassment to the country. No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.
I only ask as the staff channel I use,, at MAN, you don't have to.
BACsuperVC10. Incorrigible Liverpool cheerleader - check the LPL thread. I wondered when you'd be along to talk down MAN. You never miss the opportunity ... either here or on similar forums.
If you allow 5 hours to pass through MAN, be sure to bring enough money to pay for four hours at the refreshment outlets airside.
BTW, security is operating normally at Manchester as well. My next flight out is next Wednesday, back Friday. I'll let you know.
If you allow 5 hours to pass through MAN, be sure to bring enough money to pay for four hours at the refreshment outlets airside.
BTW, security is operating normally at Manchester as well. My next flight out is next Wednesday, back Friday. I'll let you know.
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OzzyOzBorn
Your post 1686 sums up my own feelings about the place, I came back through today with no hassle, though I do find it run down (I am usually using T1) and have only been through T2 a couple of times and find it a little uninspiring. However the lifts and escalator's were working today and fast track inbound got me landside and out of car park in 45 min which is good. With regards to security it is a thankless task, and not helped when the airport has a lot of bucket and spade travelers who may only do one or two flights a year so you have the issues of liquids in bags etc as it is something they are not used on a regular basis. Overall as you say not the best or worst but definitely getting tired in an infrastructure sense and I have done a good many airports world wide like others posting many in less well off countries which are significantly better than Manchester.
Hovis
The belt thing seems to be a Manchester preoccupation as some other airports do not seem to bother and the same with shoes depending on shoe design.
Cheers
Mr Mac
Your post 1686 sums up my own feelings about the place, I came back through today with no hassle, though I do find it run down (I am usually using T1) and have only been through T2 a couple of times and find it a little uninspiring. However the lifts and escalator's were working today and fast track inbound got me landside and out of car park in 45 min which is good. With regards to security it is a thankless task, and not helped when the airport has a lot of bucket and spade travelers who may only do one or two flights a year so you have the issues of liquids in bags etc as it is something they are not used on a regular basis. Overall as you say not the best or worst but definitely getting tired in an infrastructure sense and I have done a good many airports world wide like others posting many in less well off countries which are significantly better than Manchester.
Hovis
The belt thing seems to be a Manchester preoccupation as some other airports do not seem to bother and the same with shoes depending on shoe design.
Cheers
Mr Mac
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Ozzy, I’m not sure I follow you. I hope you aren’t suggesting that staff at MAN can be abrasive because they aren’t the same as they were before Covid? Feedback on attitude has appeared in forums for years. Staff are as good as they are trained to be. If they have a bad attitude, then they shouldn’t have been recruited in the first place. Of course it takes time to learn the job, I can only hope that the staff parachuted in from elsewhere teach the trainees the appropriate customer service skills before they leave. My daughter is on VS next week, I’m sure she will give me feedback on her experience.
I hope you aren’t suggesting that staff at MAN can be abrasive because
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CAVU | About
Not seen much publicity about this, perhaps because the focus is on getting the airport operations on track.
Not seen much publicity about this, perhaps because the focus is on getting the airport operations on track.
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BACsuperVC10. Incorrigible Liverpool cheerleader - check the LPL thread. I wondered when you'd be along to talk down MAN. You never miss the opportunity ... either here or on similar forums.
If you allow 5 hours to pass through MAN, be sure to bring enough money to pay for four hours at the refreshment outlets airside.
BTW, security is operating normally at Manchester as well. My next flight out is next Wednesday, back Friday. I'll let you know.
If you allow 5 hours to pass through MAN, be sure to bring enough money to pay for four hours at the refreshment outlets airside.
BTW, security is operating normally at Manchester as well. My next flight out is next Wednesday, back Friday. I'll let you know.
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The Transatlantic carriers have retrenched from the regions (and LGW) to LHR in order to protect their slot banks there until business rebuilds to approach and reliably sustain pre-pandemic levels. They have not left MAN due to dissatisfaction with the airport experience, and they enjoyed very healthy customer demand here too. That's why United Airlines looks good for a return once normality is restored to Transatlantic travel flows. Delta Air Lines would point out that their partnership with Virgin Atlantic represents their MAN presence (Virgin too have suspended a number of regional services including some from MAN to concentrate on safeguarding LHR slots). Oneworld is now represented at MAN by the new Aer Lingus Transatlantic base ... this has allowed American Airlines to likewise concentrate on protecting high-value slot assets at LHR. As for up-and-coming US carriers ... they're already known to be checking out the proposition offered by MAN. Watch this space?
It is a little bit naughty to conflate your personal distaste for MAN with a suggestion that all US carriers have exited MAN during the biggest pandemic in the history of the industry because they have an issue with the airport's passenger experience!
It is a little bit naughty to conflate your personal distaste for MAN with a suggestion that all US carriers have exited MAN during the biggest pandemic in the history of the industry because they have an issue with the airport's passenger experience!
The only person cheerleading here is you. The whole place is a dump and not fit for purpose, just accept it.
So delusional . Lol...all the reports are just fiction . Security is not operating normally as you well know.
Sorry that this state of affairs doesn't fit your narrative of eternal meltdown at MAN so that you can insist that all customers should instead travel via LPL. You really are too transparent, but I applaud your tireless dedication to your cause.
The only person cheerleading here is you. The whole place is a dump and not fit for purpose, just accept it.
So ... You raise the issue of Transatlantic demand again. OK, I'll address your points, though I don't plan to divert this thread into an in-depth debate on the topic. LHR's situation is unique. Slots there change hands for exorbitant sums and are considered to be assets on an operator's balance sheet. Of course carriers will seek to protect their LHR slot bank, and if the opportunity to grab more slots arises they'll do that too. It's good business, and if it means diverting resources from other routes to sustain it, so be it. We're seeing that phenomenon in action.
Levels of customer demand reflect an unusual market situation. Many customers are holding travel vouchers issued in lieu of trips cancelled over the last two years of covidworld. If left unused, these risk expiry - in most cases during this calendar year. So the pressure is on for travellers to cash them in and use them while they can. In addition to this market, we also have many people who have been unable to meet with family and friends for upto three years ... large numbers will do what it takes to rectify that in the short-term. Of course, many of these customers are voucher-holders too. So airlines are seeing a demand bulge based primarily on these two factors. The problem is, will this level of demand be sustained once those vouchers have been redeemed and the reunions and delayed weddings have played out? How much new money is really coming in on ticket sales? We don't yet know, but inflation pressures, soaring fuel prices and the cost of living crisis may offer us some clues on that. The airlines will be in no hurry to commit to additional long-term risk until things become alot clearer. And we don't yet know whether a new raft of covid measures will be reimposed this coming Winter. Hopefully not, but we can't rule it out.
Now your reference to Edinburgh, Dublin and 'little old Shannon' (as you call it). Are you acquainted with historic migration patterns? The market for bringing Irish-Americans across for a visit to their spiritual home is absolutely enormous. Scotland enjoys a good measure of this too, and also enjoys a positive tourism profile for US customers who enjoy heritage, whisky, golf and the rest. So Ireland and Scotland are a big draw for eastbound US-domiciled leisure travellers. Many will hold vouchers based on unfulfilled travel to these destinations. The market at Manchester is quite different in composition. Passengers using Transatlantic services from Manchester are heavily skewed towards UK-domiciled customers. This is a big reason why we see brands familiar with the UK-originating market dominating here. Delta is backing their Virgin Atlantic partner brand for the Manchester market. Oneworld has switched to Aer Lingus metal. United is looking to return when market conditions become more predictable. TUI is back in the Florida market. Rapidly-expanding US independents are assessing the Manchester proposition.
If you can supply load factor and yield data for the Aer Lingus long-haul base at MAN, please do share with us. You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Though I do point out that Aer Lingus is in an unusual situation. The EUK Transatlantic operation is a new start-up, so their loads will not be bulked-up by voucher holders who have seen earlier trips cancelled. Aer Lingus needs to attract completely new bookings, and that isn't easy in this market.
That's where we are, but by all means cling to your narrative that all US carriers have exited Manchester because they hate the airport experience and 'the place is a dump and not fit for purpose' ... I presume that this includes the brand new T2 infrastructure which the remaining Transatlantic services are now using? Yes, that must be it.
Last edited by OzzyOzBorn; 12th May 2022 at 01:54.
People need to remember that Twitter and other social media REPORTSs don't always totally accurately reflect the real world, and the the PR/media team at MAN need to be doing more