Manchester-3
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With regards to freight one of the things to consider is logistically the UK is not that big and the distance from EMA to MAN is not that great a distance and there is a large logistical park adjacent to EMA which is growing. Maybe the decision has been taken to make EMA the freight hub.
As for MAN maybe concentrates on its passenger offering and finish what they started. The remote stands will be an issue in more inclement weather, and none of the stairs being used that I have observed have had roofs unlike Frankfurt that also has many remote stands with arguably worse winter weather. Boarding a 330 with one set of stairs is a time consuming issue !
As I mentioned Leeds earlier I do not understand how they get away with the large queues for immigration stretching onto an operational apron at times when flights are early or indeed late. The stairs comment also applies there as well.
Cheers
Mr Mac
As for MAN maybe concentrates on its passenger offering and finish what they started. The remote stands will be an issue in more inclement weather, and none of the stairs being used that I have observed have had roofs unlike Frankfurt that also has many remote stands with arguably worse winter weather. Boarding a 330 with one set of stairs is a time consuming issue !
As I mentioned Leeds earlier I do not understand how they get away with the large queues for immigration stretching onto an operational apron at times when flights are early or indeed late. The stairs comment also applies there as well.
Cheers
Mr Mac
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People are looking at cargo from a MAN only perspective, not MAG wide. MAG don't need cargo at MAN as they have a superb facility in a perfect location at EMA. It's no more complicated than that and if I ran MAG it would make perfect sense to keeping sending cargo to its dedicated cargo hub. Makes perfect sense for the business...but less so for MAN fans & spotters.
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With regards to freight one of the things to consider is logistically the UK is not that big and the distance from EMA to MAN is not that great a distance and there is a large logistical park adjacent to EMA which is growing. Maybe the decision has been taken to make EMA the freight hub.
As for MAN maybe concentrates on its passenger offering and finish what they started. The remote stands will be an issue in more inclement weather, and none of the stairs being used that I have observed have had roofs unlike Frankfurt that also has many remote stands with arguably worse winter weather. Boarding a 330 with one set of stairs is a time consuming issue !
As I mentioned Leeds earlier I do not understand how they get away with the large queues for immigration stretching onto an operational apron at times when flights are early or indeed late. The stairs comment also applies there as well.
Cheers
Mr Mac
As for MAN maybe concentrates on its passenger offering and finish what they started. The remote stands will be an issue in more inclement weather, and none of the stairs being used that I have observed have had roofs unlike Frankfurt that also has many remote stands with arguably worse winter weather. Boarding a 330 with one set of stairs is a time consuming issue !
As I mentioned Leeds earlier I do not understand how they get away with the large queues for immigration stretching onto an operational apron at times when flights are early or indeed late. The stairs comment also applies there as well.
Cheers
Mr Mac
EGGC its illegal to continue do this and the new management know this very well - Refer above the regulators have put operators on NOTICE !
Last edited by Rutan16; 17th Jun 2023 at 18:22.
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Re Main Deck Loaders(MDL) and the GHA's:- to the best of my knowledge MDL are not specifically mentioned in the GHA licences at MAN. It is also not cost effective to have a MDL sitting at an airport i.e MAN if no possibility of usage. Also probably why NCL now have a MDL ex Doncaster closure, as they do have ad-hoc freighters.
It is not just having the equipment but also trained employees, all that experience was lost after Cathay, Lufthansa, FedEx etc., departed.
It is not just having the equipment but also trained employees, all that experience was lost after Cathay, Lufthansa, FedEx etc., departed.
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Re Main Deck Loaders(MDL) and the GHA's:- to the best of my knowledge MDL are not specifically mentioned in the GHA licences at MAN. It is also not cost effective to have a MDL sitting at an airport i.e MAN if no possibility of usage. Also probably why NCL now have a MDL ex Doncaster closure, as they do have ad-hoc freighters.
It is not just having the equipment but also trained employees, all that experience was lost after Cathay, Lufthansa, FedEx etc., departed.
It is not just having the equipment but also trained employees, all that experience was lost after Cathay, Lufthansa, FedEx etc., departed.
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People are looking at cargo from a MAN only perspective, not MAG wide. MAG don't need cargo at MAN as they have a superb facility in a perfect location at EMA. It's no more complicated than that and if I ran MAG it would make perfect sense to keeping sending cargo to its dedicated cargo hub. Makes perfect sense for the business...but less so for MAN fans & spotters.
I hasten to add i am not singling out eggc here but more the off recurring point that seems to be corrosive that it makes "perfect business sense".
Well here's a thing I'm the import customer at the end of the chain, and its not making perfect sense to me and clearly not to a few others given Rutans observations.
I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve him given others have also made the point more covertly earlier on in this thread. There was i believe a suggestion that this practice may have even allegedly instigated management changes.
The Manchester airport cargo page is positively gushing, the reality I'm sad too say in some instances is the complete opposite.
Point1) There seems to be a suggestion that freight which has routinely been redirected to EMA is simply "popped" on a lorry and with a Mary Poppins click of the fingers is available some 90 minutes later for onwards despatch from Manchester, that as Micheal O' Leary might indicate is complete xxxxxxxolgy. We are in most cases talking a min' of 48 hours and in some cases more, especially if the divert is to Stansted. Certainly if my own experience is anything to go by freight becomes bound up in a logistical log jam of customs, storage, and lorry consolidation/ availability. After these hurdles have been overcome it eventually leaves for Manchester where it is then stored again in transit waiting further pick up.
Point2 ) As Rutan has indicated it is NOT repeat NOT in Manchesters gift henceforth to potentially take an enquiry for freight bound specifically for Manchester and indicate that it should be redirected to EMA or indeed as sometimes happens Stansted.
As per the web site I'm struggling with a few of the claims.
120,000 tonnes per annum throughput stands out immediately but according to wikepedia, it is infact only 65,000 tonnes.
(Is the other 65,000 tonnes driven in by truck from other airports)? if that is the case it suggests only half of Manchester throughput is directly received at the Airport by plane. Does that not then in turn undermine the following claims ?
The World Frieght Terminal is quote "located within a two-hour drive of the cities of Birmingham, Bradford, Coventry, Hull, Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield, Stoke and Wolverhampton. London, Glasgow and Edinburgh are within four hours".
If your imported goods have come below deck this may be true, if it was switch sold to EMA or even Stansted, well good luck with those trucking times.
"The M56 motorway forms an integral part of the regional motorway network, providing direct access to Manchester, Liverpool and the M6 motorway, with travel times of 20, 40 and 15 minutes respectively from the World Freight Terminal".
True but if your consignment again was switch sold to EMA/Stansted the location of the M56 becomes somewhat academic.
There remains a lot of civic pride for Manchester specifically from it's shareholders in Greater Manchester, we saw this when delays took hold last year and heads rolled. We also had evidence of this when the next phase of terminal development was announced in February.
I'm struggling to envisage a situation where those same shareholders "knowingly" allowed this situation to develope to the extent that a regulator has then had to step in.
The new CEO appears to be from the Gil Thompson mould, he inherited these protocols from the previuos regime who recetly stepped aside, but i am pretty sure he will do his utmost to avoid further sanction. Thus far his CV is exemplary, he will I'm convinced fix this.
Last edited by Navpi; 17th Jun 2023 at 18:10.
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We import regualry, mainly by sea granted, but increasingly by air - our next shipment is due in LHR this coming Thursday evening and we'll have it in Manchester Friday all being well and we've never had to suffer the delays you mention even when goods arrive to the UK as far a field away as Heathrow. We dont bring enough in for me to be an expert on the matter but we bring enough in to have a rough idea and 48 hours after arrival is about the worst we've experienced.
As for it is not MAN's choice to attempt to redirect cargo traffic then what choice does it have if it does not, nor a handling agent, have the equipment to handle said request. Tell me I am wrong but the is nothing illegal about the lack of suitable equipment at MAN and if demand does not warrant this expensive kit sat around most of the time doing sod all then why would MAG, or a handling agent, invest in it ? In light of which if an enquiry comes in and MAN cant do it then surely MAG wanting to keep the business and suggest EMA isnt a crime ?
As for it is not MAN's choice to attempt to redirect cargo traffic then what choice does it have if it does not, nor a handling agent, have the equipment to handle said request. Tell me I am wrong but the is nothing illegal about the lack of suitable equipment at MAN and if demand does not warrant this expensive kit sat around most of the time doing sod all then why would MAG, or a handling agent, invest in it ? In light of which if an enquiry comes in and MAN cant do it then surely MAG wanting to keep the business and suggest EMA isnt a crime ?
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With reference to our esteemed contributor from Birmingham - Reading on an another site lots of people missing flights earlier due to 2.5 hours queues and we are not in peak summer yet !
Said thread on Facebook refers to 21/2 hour queues at Amsterdam and somebodies son missing a flight TO Manchester and not FROM.
Said thread on Facebook refers to 21/2 hour queues at Amsterdam and somebodies son missing a flight TO Manchester and not FROM.
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With reference to our esteemed contributor from Birmingham - Reading on an another site lots of people missing flights earlier due to 2.5 hours queues and we are not in peak summer yet !
Said thread on Facebook refers to 21/2 hour queues at Amsterdam and somebodies son missing a flight TO Manchester and not FROM.
Said thread on Facebook refers to 21/2 hour queues at Amsterdam and somebodies son missing a flight TO Manchester and not FROM.
It would be nice if the original said poster of BHX fame would come on and apologise for his misinformation.
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Yes sorry I miss read the FB posting, my apologies
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We import regualry, mainly by sea granted, but increasingly by air - our next shipment is due in LHR this coming Thursday evening and we'll have it in Manchester Friday all being well and we've never had to suffer the delays you mention even when goods arrive to the UK as far a field away as Heathrow. We dont bring enough in for me to be an expert on the matter but we bring enough in to have a rough idea and 48 hours after arrival is about the worst we've experienced.
As for it is not MAN's choice to attempt to redirect cargo traffic then what choice does it have if it does not, nor a handling agent, have the equipment to handle said request. Tell me I am wrong but the is nothing illegal about the lack of suitable equipment at MAN and if demand does not warrant this expensive kit sat around most of the time doing sod all then why would MAG, or a handling agent, invest in it ? In light of which if an enquiry comes in and MAN cant do it then surely MAG wanting to keep the business and suggest EMA isnt a crime ?
As for it is not MAN's choice to attempt to redirect cargo traffic then what choice does it have if it does not, nor a handling agent, have the equipment to handle said request. Tell me I am wrong but the is nothing illegal about the lack of suitable equipment at MAN and if demand does not warrant this expensive kit sat around most of the time doing sod all then why would MAG, or a handling agent, invest in it ? In light of which if an enquiry comes in and MAN cant do it then surely MAG wanting to keep the business and suggest EMA isnt a crime ?
Its up to the customer to seek alternative suppliers in the market place.
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Oh my goodness, the lack of knowledge in this area really is stellar.
I hasten to add i am not singling out eggc here but more the off recurring point that seems to be corrosive that it makes "perfect business sense".
Well here's a thing I'm the import customer at the end of the chain, and its not making perfect sense to me and clearly not to a few others given Rutans observations.
I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve him given others have also made the point more covertly earlier on in this thread. There was i believe a suggestion that this practice may have even allegedly instigated management changes.
The Manchester airport cargo page is positively gushing, the reality I'm sad too say in some instances is the complete opposite.
Point1) There seems to be a suggestion that freight which has routinely been redirected to EMA is simply "popped" on a lorry and with a Mary Poppins click of the fingers is available some 90 minutes later for onwards despatch from Manchester, that as Micheal O' Leary might indicate is complete xxxxxxxolgy. We are in most cases talking a min' of 48 hours and in some cases more, especially if the divert is to Stansted. Certainly if my own experience is anything to go by freight becomes bound up in a logistical log jam of customs, storage, and lorry consolidation/ availability. After these hurdles have been overcome it eventually leaves for Manchester where it is then stored again in transit waiting further pick up.
Point2 ) As Rutan has indicated it is NOT repeat NOT in Manchesters gift henceforth to potentially take an enquiry for freight bound specifically for Manchester and indicate that it should be redirected to EMA or indeed as sometimes happens Stansted.
As per the web site I'm struggling with a few of the claims.
120,000 tonnes per annum throughput stands out immediately but according to wikepedia, it is infact only 65,000 tonnes.
(Is the other 65,000 tonnes driven in by truck from other airports)? if that is the case it suggests only half of Manchester throughput is directly received at the Airport by plane. Does that not then in turn undermine the following claims ?
The World Frieght Terminal is quote "located within a two-hour drive of the cities of Birmingham, Bradford, Coventry, Hull, Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield, Stoke and Wolverhampton. London, Glasgow and Edinburgh are within four hours".
If your imported goods have come below deck this may be true, if it was switch sold to EMA or even Stansted, well good luck with those trucking times.
"The M56 motorway forms an integral part of the regional motorway network, providing direct access to Manchester, Liverpool and the M6 motorway, with travel times of 20, 40 and 15 minutes respectively from the World Freight Terminal".
True but if your consignment again was switch sold to EMA/Stansted the location of the M56 becomes somewhat academic.
There remains a lot of civic pride for Manchester specifically from it's shareholders in Greater Manchester, we saw this when delays took hold last year and heads rolled. We also had evidence of this when the next phase of terminal development was announced in February.
I'm struggling to envisage a situation where those same shareholders "knowingly" allowed this situation to develope to the extent that a regulator has then had to step in.
The new CEO appears to be from the Gil Thompson mould, he inherited these protocols from the previuos regime who recetly stepped aside, but i am pretty sure he will do his utmost to avoid further sanction. Thus far his CV is exemplary, he will I'm convinced fix this.
I hasten to add i am not singling out eggc here but more the off recurring point that seems to be corrosive that it makes "perfect business sense".
Well here's a thing I'm the import customer at the end of the chain, and its not making perfect sense to me and clearly not to a few others given Rutans observations.
I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve him given others have also made the point more covertly earlier on in this thread. There was i believe a suggestion that this practice may have even allegedly instigated management changes.
The Manchester airport cargo page is positively gushing, the reality I'm sad too say in some instances is the complete opposite.
Point1) There seems to be a suggestion that freight which has routinely been redirected to EMA is simply "popped" on a lorry and with a Mary Poppins click of the fingers is available some 90 minutes later for onwards despatch from Manchester, that as Micheal O' Leary might indicate is complete xxxxxxxolgy. We are in most cases talking a min' of 48 hours and in some cases more, especially if the divert is to Stansted. Certainly if my own experience is anything to go by freight becomes bound up in a logistical log jam of customs, storage, and lorry consolidation/ availability. After these hurdles have been overcome it eventually leaves for Manchester where it is then stored again in transit waiting further pick up.
Point2 ) As Rutan has indicated it is NOT repeat NOT in Manchesters gift henceforth to potentially take an enquiry for freight bound specifically for Manchester and indicate that it should be redirected to EMA or indeed as sometimes happens Stansted.
As per the web site I'm struggling with a few of the claims.
120,000 tonnes per annum throughput stands out immediately but according to wikepedia, it is infact only 65,000 tonnes.
(Is the other 65,000 tonnes driven in by truck from other airports)? if that is the case it suggests only half of Manchester throughput is directly received at the Airport by plane. Does that not then in turn undermine the following claims ?
The World Frieght Terminal is quote "located within a two-hour drive of the cities of Birmingham, Bradford, Coventry, Hull, Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield, Stoke and Wolverhampton. London, Glasgow and Edinburgh are within four hours".
If your imported goods have come below deck this may be true, if it was switch sold to EMA or even Stansted, well good luck with those trucking times.
"The M56 motorway forms an integral part of the regional motorway network, providing direct access to Manchester, Liverpool and the M6 motorway, with travel times of 20, 40 and 15 minutes respectively from the World Freight Terminal".
True but if your consignment again was switch sold to EMA/Stansted the location of the M56 becomes somewhat academic.
There remains a lot of civic pride for Manchester specifically from it's shareholders in Greater Manchester, we saw this when delays took hold last year and heads rolled. We also had evidence of this when the next phase of terminal development was announced in February.
I'm struggling to envisage a situation where those same shareholders "knowingly" allowed this situation to develope to the extent that a regulator has then had to step in.
The new CEO appears to be from the Gil Thompson mould, he inherited these protocols from the previuos regime who recetly stepped aside, but i am pretty sure he will do his utmost to avoid further sanction. Thus far his CV is exemplary, he will I'm convinced fix this.
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Manchester airport can decline an expression of interest , however may NOT suggest implied or explicitly that the customer has an alternative via a named “elsewhere” within group and specifically exercise on that.
Its up to the customer to seek alternative suppliers in the market place.
Its up to the customer to seek alternative suppliers in the market place.