Manchester-3
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It looks to me from the discussions that a few folks don't realise exactly how an airport works!
MAN is not a handling agent.
It has no steps, belt loaders, gpu's, push back tugs, hylos etc, etc.
All aircraft servicing equipment is owned/operated by the handling agents only.
If MAN gets an enquiry from an airline/aircraft operator then it can say if there is slot/stand availability and try and link the potential customer to a handling agent.
If none of the Handling agents wish to take the work then there is little MAN can do other than perhaps try and suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group. It may well be that if the incumbent handling agents have already made clear they don't want freighter business that MAN might go straight to that in the first instance.
A freighter operation requiring an MDL is a significant cost unless you are a multi airport agent with equipment availability elsewhere in the network to move to MAN.
The accountants in a handling agent are unlikely to countenance the expenditure for an MDL against a one year contract. In the freighter world it's not uncommon for a new route to be tried only to fold shortly afterwards for all sorts of reasons.
FDX when they operated previously into MAN used their own staff and equipment to handle their aircraft.
MAN still has a number of stands (at the moment) with nose wheel tether points for freighter ops. But these are likely to dissappear as MANTP progresses.
From recent performance issues it seems unlikely that any of the current handling agents would have the capacity to actually take on any pure freighter operations.
On the whole many of these in the past at MAN (China/CX/Polar) have a schedule so that they can measure their delays against something. Again that's not something a handling agent want to be faced with.
At the end of the day the role of the airport can only be one of facilitating/encouraging a handling agent to take business.
In the final analysis it's a cost benefit/risk decision by the Handling agents.
MAN is not a handling agent.
It has no steps, belt loaders, gpu's, push back tugs, hylos etc, etc.
All aircraft servicing equipment is owned/operated by the handling agents only.
If MAN gets an enquiry from an airline/aircraft operator then it can say if there is slot/stand availability and try and link the potential customer to a handling agent.
If none of the Handling agents wish to take the work then there is little MAN can do other than perhaps try and suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group. It may well be that if the incumbent handling agents have already made clear they don't want freighter business that MAN might go straight to that in the first instance.
A freighter operation requiring an MDL is a significant cost unless you are a multi airport agent with equipment availability elsewhere in the network to move to MAN.
The accountants in a handling agent are unlikely to countenance the expenditure for an MDL against a one year contract. In the freighter world it's not uncommon for a new route to be tried only to fold shortly afterwards for all sorts of reasons.
FDX when they operated previously into MAN used their own staff and equipment to handle their aircraft.
MAN still has a number of stands (at the moment) with nose wheel tether points for freighter ops. But these are likely to dissappear as MANTP progresses.
From recent performance issues it seems unlikely that any of the current handling agents would have the capacity to actually take on any pure freighter operations.
On the whole many of these in the past at MAN (China/CX/Polar) have a schedule so that they can measure their delays against something. Again that's not something a handling agent want to be faced with.
At the end of the day the role of the airport can only be one of facilitating/encouraging a handling agent to take business.
In the final analysis it's a cost benefit/risk decision by the Handling agents.
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Why ?
The divisions are legally differing and competing businesses and MAG Group is a global business - Operating under GB, EU and WTO rules, various financial regulators and subject to relevant “trust” considerations including those in the USA !
Collusion falls under similar regulations covering cartel type practices - As per my earlier post being in breech of these rules can lead to very very significant fiduciary sanctions via relevant agencies and licensing authorities.
The divisions are legally differing and competing businesses and MAG Group is a global business - Operating under GB, EU and WTO rules, various financial regulators and subject to relevant “trust” considerations including those in the USA !
Collusion falls under similar regulations covering cartel type practices - As per my earlier post being in breech of these rules can lead to very very significant fiduciary sanctions via relevant agencies and licensing authorities.
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It looks to me from the discussions that a few folks don't realise exactly how an airport works!
MAN is not a handling agent.
It has no steps, belt loaders, gpu's, push back tugs, hylos etc, etc.
All aircraft servicing equipment is owned/operated by the handling agents only.
If MAN gets an enquiry from an airline/aircraft operator then it can say if there is slot/stand availability and try and link the potential customer to a handling agent.
If none of the Handling agents wish to take the work then there is little MAN can do other than perhaps try and suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group. It may well be that if the incumbent handling agents have already made clear they don't want freighter business that MAN might go straight to that in the first instance.
A freighter operation requiring an MDL is a significant cost unless you are a multi airport agent with equipment availability elsewhere in the network to move to MAN.
The accountants in a handling agent are unlikely to countenance the expenditure for an MDL against a one year contract. In the freighter world it's not uncommon for a new route to be tried only to fold shortly afterwards for all sorts of reasons.
FDX when they operated previously into MAN used their own staff and equipment to handle their aircraft.
MAN still has a number of stands (at the moment) with nose wheel tether points for freighter ops. But these are likely to dissappear as MANTP progresses.
From recent performance issues it seems unlikely that any of the current handling agents would have the capacity to actually take on any pure freighter operations.
On the whole many of these in the past at MAN (China/CX/Polar) have a schedule so that they can measure their delays against something. Again that's not something a handling agent want to be faced with.
At the end of the day the role of the airport can only be one of facilitating/encouraging a handling agent to take business.
In the final analysis it's a cost benefit/risk decision by the Handling agents.
MAN is not a handling agent.
It has no steps, belt loaders, gpu's, push back tugs, hylos etc, etc.
All aircraft servicing equipment is owned/operated by the handling agents only.
If MAN gets an enquiry from an airline/aircraft operator then it can say if there is slot/stand availability and try and link the potential customer to a handling agent.
If none of the Handling agents wish to take the work then there is little MAN can do other than perhaps try and suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group. It may well be that if the incumbent handling agents have already made clear they don't want freighter business that MAN might go straight to that in the first instance.
A freighter operation requiring an MDL is a significant cost unless you are a multi airport agent with equipment availability elsewhere in the network to move to MAN.
The accountants in a handling agent are unlikely to countenance the expenditure for an MDL against a one year contract. In the freighter world it's not uncommon for a new route to be tried only to fold shortly afterwards for all sorts of reasons.
FDX when they operated previously into MAN used their own staff and equipment to handle their aircraft.
MAN still has a number of stands (at the moment) with nose wheel tether points for freighter ops. But these are likely to dissappear as MANTP progresses.
From recent performance issues it seems unlikely that any of the current handling agents would have the capacity to actually take on any pure freighter operations.
On the whole many of these in the past at MAN (China/CX/Polar) have a schedule so that they can measure their delays against something. Again that's not something a handling agent want to be faced with.
At the end of the day the role of the airport can only be one of facilitating/encouraging a handling agent to take business.
In the final analysis it's a cost benefit/risk decision by the Handling agents.
Manchester Airport can simple only decline the potential business as previous stated .
Airport can also “if they wish” discuss and potentially amend the terms (at contractually agreed times) with partner franchisees specifically the handling companies.
Its a multifaceted approach .
BTW Manchester Airport is an ACL slot controlled airport and the ONE THING the airport authority can NOT offer are slots !
This is the bit Manchester Airport ( not MAG Group) CANNOT legally do “suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group”
Manchester Airport can simple only decline the potential business as previous stated .
Airport can also “if they wish” discuss and potentially amend the terms (at contractually agreed times) with partner franchisees specifically the handling companies.
Its a multifaceted approach .
BTW Manchester Airport is an ACL slot controlled airport and the ONE THING the airport authority can NOT offer are slots !
Manchester Airport can simple only decline the potential business as previous stated .
Airport can also “if they wish” discuss and potentially amend the terms (at contractually agreed times) with partner franchisees specifically the handling companies.
Its a multifaceted approach .
BTW Manchester Airport is an ACL slot controlled airport and the ONE THING the airport authority can NOT offer are slots !
Appreciate what you say, I was trying to simplify the explanation as many contributors to this discussion seem way off the mark.
I think you'll find the commercial business generation is actually a group function, not an individual airport one. So consulting with a customer and informing them where its likely they will get the service they require is appropriate.
As for ammending the Handling agent agreement, yes that can be ammended and in recent years attempts have/are being made on various aspects.
But...... you can't amend it in a way that damages either party, no-one wins from that.
As for slots, perhaps poorly worded I guess. I'm not suggesting they "offer" slots, but a natural part part of the sequence is always going to be establishing if slots are available.
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Appreciate what you say, I was trying to simplify the explanation as many contributors to this discussion seem way off the mark.
I think you'll find the commercial business generation is actually a group function, not an individual airport one. So consulting with a customer and informing them where its likely they will get the service they require is appropriate.
As for ammending the Handling agent agreement, yes that can be ammended and in recent years attempts have/are being made on various aspects.
But...... you can't amend it in a way that damages either party, no-one wins from that.
As for slots, perhaps poorly worded I guess. I'm not suggesting they "offer" slots, but a natural part part of the sequence is always going to be establishing if slots are available.
I think you'll find the commercial business generation is actually a group function, not an individual airport one. So consulting with a customer and informing them where its likely they will get the service they require is appropriate.
As for ammending the Handling agent agreement, yes that can be ammended and in recent years attempts have/are being made on various aspects.
But...... you can't amend it in a way that damages either party, no-one wins from that.
As for slots, perhaps poorly worded I guess. I'm not suggesting they "offer" slots, but a natural part part of the sequence is always going to be establishing if slots are available.
think you'll find the commercial business generation is actually a group function, not an individual airport one. So consulting with a customer and informing them where its likely they will get the service they require is appropriate.
MAG Group can and do promote the functions of the differing businesses and several other businesses which are not core aviation or even UK related, however each business must act independently that’s the legal bit.
As you might have noticed I have explicitly stated Manchester Airport in all comments and at certain junctions caveated ( not MAG Group) - They are two differing legal entities .
Quote
As for ammending the Handling agent agreement, yes that can be ammended and in recent years attempts have/are being made on various aspects.
But...... you can't amend it in a way that damages either party, no-one wins from that.
Whilst the terms of the franchises and awards are considered confidential there will be clauses, quality and delivery benchmarks .
In recent times I think the airport has allowed the handlers far too much leeway on their delivery and indeed their offering - Indeed I might go as far as saying their are evidently conflicts of interest between these “partners”
Is it up to the handlers to dictate which airlines and services Manchester Airport negotiate with - I call no it isn’t ( opinion)
In the case of Manchester Airport ground handling has been done by contractors for about as long as I can remember, with BEA/ Briitish Airways and Serviceair through the sixties , seventies and Menzies, DNATA, DHL, SWISSPORT and even self handlers such as Jet2 today.
That said I think that the new broom driving Manchester Airport seems to have more energy than has been seen for quite sometime and that “may” include recovering and promoting the place of cargo within the local portfolio.
Last edited by Rutan16; 18th Jun 2023 at 00:05.
[QUOTE=Rutan16;11452729]Quote
In the case of Manchester Airport ground handling has been done by contractors for about as long as I can remember, with BEA/ Briitish Airways and Serviceair through the sixties , seventies and Menzies, DNATA, DHL, SWISSPORT and even self handlers such as Jet2 today.
/QUOTE]
Ground handling as such was carried out by the airport itself (as was the catering loading) until into the 90s.
Handling agents were limited to check in/dispatch etc.
Alpha provided the catering but airport staff drove the trucks, collected it and delivered to/loaded it onto aircraft.
All freight/baggage handling/airbridge driving was carried out solely by the airport in house handling.
Pushback were generally done by engineers, such as Dan Air.
Following the industrial dispute the airlines affected started efforts to get that changed and were successful.
That resulted in the formation of Ringway Handling in August 1991 from the in house baggage section) which became a stand alone subsidiary of MA Plc at the same time as ramp handling was opened up to the Handling agents.
In the case of Manchester Airport ground handling has been done by contractors for about as long as I can remember, with BEA/ Briitish Airways and Serviceair through the sixties , seventies and Menzies, DNATA, DHL, SWISSPORT and even self handlers such as Jet2 today.
/QUOTE]
Ground handling as such was carried out by the airport itself (as was the catering loading) until into the 90s.
Handling agents were limited to check in/dispatch etc.
Alpha provided the catering but airport staff drove the trucks, collected it and delivered to/loaded it onto aircraft.
All freight/baggage handling/airbridge driving was carried out solely by the airport in house handling.
Pushback were generally done by engineers, such as Dan Air.
Following the industrial dispute the airlines affected started efforts to get that changed and were successful.
That resulted in the formation of Ringway Handling in August 1991 from the in house baggage section) which became a stand alone subsidiary of MA Plc at the same time as ramp handling was opened up to the Handling agents.
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It looks to me from the discussions that a few folks don't realise exactly how an airport works!
MAN is not a handling agent.
It has no steps, belt loaders, gpu's, push back tugs, hylos etc, etc.
All aircraft servicing equipment is owned/operated by the handling agents only.
If MAN gets an enquiry from an airline/aircraft operator then it can say if there is slot/stand availability and try and link the potential customer to a handling agent.
If none of the Handling agents wish to take the work then there is little MAN can do other than perhaps try and suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group. It may well be that if the incumbent handling agents have already made clear they don't want freighter business that MAN might go straight to that in the first instance.
A freighter operation requiring an MDL is a significant cost unless you are a multi airport agent with equipment availability elsewhere in the network to move to MAN.
The accountants in a handling agent are unlikely to countenance the expenditure for an MDL against a one year contract. In the freighter world it's not uncommon for a new route to be tried only to fold shortly afterwards for all sorts of reasons.
FDX when they operated previously into MAN used their own staff and equipment to handle their aircraft.
MAN still has a number of stands (at the moment) with nose wheel tether points for freighter ops. But these are likely to dissappear as MANTP progresses.
From recent performance issues it seems unlikely that any of the current handling agents would have the capacity to actually take on any pure freighter operations.
On the whole many of these in the past at MAN (China/CX/Polar) have a schedule so that they can measure their delays against something. Again that's not something a handling agent want to be faced with.
At the end of the day the role of the airport can only be one of facilitating/encouraging a handling agent to take business.
In the final analysis it's a cost benefit/risk decision by the Handling agents.
MAN is not a handling agent.
It has no steps, belt loaders, gpu's, push back tugs, hylos etc, etc.
All aircraft servicing equipment is owned/operated by the handling agents only.
If MAN gets an enquiry from an airline/aircraft operator then it can say if there is slot/stand availability and try and link the potential customer to a handling agent.
If none of the Handling agents wish to take the work then there is little MAN can do other than perhaps try and suggest one of the other group airports to try and keep the potential revenue within the group. It may well be that if the incumbent handling agents have already made clear they don't want freighter business that MAN might go straight to that in the first instance.
A freighter operation requiring an MDL is a significant cost unless you are a multi airport agent with equipment availability elsewhere in the network to move to MAN.
The accountants in a handling agent are unlikely to countenance the expenditure for an MDL against a one year contract. In the freighter world it's not uncommon for a new route to be tried only to fold shortly afterwards for all sorts of reasons.
FDX when they operated previously into MAN used their own staff and equipment to handle their aircraft.
MAN still has a number of stands (at the moment) with nose wheel tether points for freighter ops. But these are likely to dissappear as MANTP progresses.
From recent performance issues it seems unlikely that any of the current handling agents would have the capacity to actually take on any pure freighter operations.
On the whole many of these in the past at MAN (China/CX/Polar) have a schedule so that they can measure their delays against something. Again that's not something a handling agent want to be faced with.
At the end of the day the role of the airport can only be one of facilitating/encouraging a handling agent to take business.
In the final analysis it's a cost benefit/risk decision by the Handling agents.
I reference the comments below all made a few months ago by some pretty influential business parties and Politicians across the North of England.
I have linked in the article when the extention of the Transformation Programme was announced this year.
https://mediacentre.manchesterairpor...ion-programme/
Yes these comments were made at the launch of the 2nd phase of the MANTP but anyone who thinks they don't relate to pure flown cargo as well as passengers is quite frankly living in cloud cuckoo land.
They are robust in their delivery !
"Manchester, is The Global gateway for the North"
"Connnectivity to the Worlds most important economic markets is paramount"
"As the international gateway to the North of England, Manchester Airport acts as a critical player in our economy, supporting thousands of jobs and unlocking billions in economic value by facilitating tourism, trade and investment". “Manchester Airport is a massive asset to our city region, connecting those living and working here to global destinations, as well as helping attract visitors, tourists and inward investment".
"Having this global connectivity is a major competitive advantage for Manchester".
“Manchester Airport has an integral role in the North’s economy, connecting us with the rest of the world and supporting businesses who export goods and services overseas".
“‘Manchester Airport is an essential transport hub for the North West – it connects us to key markets".
"Manchester Airport is critical to so many north Cheshire businesses both for business travel and for freight and as it continues to attract new airlines and open up new routes".
"Manchester Airport’s status as a genuine gateway to the rest of the world and will unlock tourist and commercial traffic opportunities now and in the future.”
I suspect jaws would be on the floor if you suggested to any of them that an enquiry to operate a pure freight into Manchester for a local exporter was met with a.....
"Ah sorry when we said Global Gateway we actually only meant passengers or underbelly freight we cannot actually handle pure freight imports and exports but tell you what , we do have options, we have two sister airports, one in the Midlands and one in Essex, where we are happy to facilitate your requirements".
Can you imagine what the Politicians, Councillors, Chief executives, Policy makers, and Business Leaders referecing Manchester as A Global Gateway would make of that....?
Manchester Airport is first and foremost the Global Gateway for the North, that has to include pure freight, therefore there has to be a way to square this circle to the benefit of all parties, agents MAG, and business.
i think you are looking at this slightly one eyed
MAN was fourth biggest in the UK in terms of air freight volumes in 2022 - not too shabby.
Pot calling the kettle black here. You're putting an awfull lot of credence in puff pieces. Do you really think cargo cares if it arrives in a pure freighters or as underbelly freight?
MAN was fourth biggest in the UK in terms of air freight volumes in 2022 - not too shabby.
MAN was fourth biggest in the UK in terms of air freight volumes in 2022 - not too shabby.
To be 4th in cargo tonnage, behind presumably LHR, STN and EMA is just about where you might expect MAN to land.
All freight/baggage handling/airbridge driving was carried out solely by the airport in house handling.
Pot calling the kettle black here. You're putting an awfull lot of credence in puff pieces. Do you really think cargo cares if it arrives in a pure freighters or as underbelly freight?
MAN was fourth biggest in the UK in terms of air freight volumes in 2022 - not too shabby.
MAN was fourth biggest in the UK in terms of air freight volumes in 2022 - not too shabby.
Exactly that.
Not until after the handling was opened up you didn't!
In fact even after that Servisair started by only doing the ramp handling in T2, T1 continued with the Servisair airlines being sub-contracted to Ringway Handling.
After a while Servisair took their T1 contracts in house and did it all themselves.
But only a few years later they again withdrew back to T2 after agreeing a working partnership with RHSL (Ringway Handling). The deal was that RHSL would sub contract the pax handling etc to Servisair across both T1 and T2 and Servisair would sub it's T1 ramp handling to RHSL.
At that point RHSL had started winning contracts for whole handling in its own right, but without a dispatch/passenger handling section it needed to sub that part of the work.
That stumbled along for a few years before again breaking down.
In between RHSL explored partnerships with with others, for a while it had a deal with Manchester Handling to provide the dispatch/pax services but little of commercial value came from it.
At one point RHSL had dabbled with providing it's own dispatch/front of house and pushbacks but couldn't really reach the volumes to make it viable. After that the board of RHSL would never allow it to develop in that direction again.
RHSL did however get back into pushbacks.
Early 80's? Well before T2. Pretty sure we did. It stood out because otherwise we couldn't touch bags - we were just about tolerated taking strollers from the gate to the aircraft. Distinctly remember having to muscle Laker A.300 containers into/out of the hold cos their **** computer/laser system expected containers to be 'square'. By contrast the DC-10 system was a dream.
Don`t forget aircraft change as does flight number AC909 and A330 until end of September so pretty much same as previous years as it is
holiday flight not business one
holiday flight not business one
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Their cabins will only be 8% premium - perfect for the MAN market
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Why ?
The divisions are legally differing and competing businesses and MAG Group is a global business - Operating under GB, EU and WTO rules, various financial regulators and subject to relevant “trust” considerations including those in the USA !
Collusion falls under similar regulations covering cartel type practices - As per my earlier post being in breech of these rules can lead to very very significant fiduciary sanctions via relevant agencies and licensing authorities.
The divisions are legally differing and competing businesses and MAG Group is a global business - Operating under GB, EU and WTO rules, various financial regulators and subject to relevant “trust” considerations including those in the USA !
Collusion falls under similar regulations covering cartel type practices - As per my earlier post being in breech of these rules can lead to very very significant fiduciary sanctions via relevant agencies and licensing authorities.
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