Manchester-3

[Navpi]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

No it isn't, it actually supports "eggc's" point. It doesn't say they can handle all sorts of freight or all types of aircraft. Not all freight-only a/c are wide-bodies, or are you implying there is some sort of restriction on all freight-only a/c?

Well unless I'm blind it says they "manage freight only aircraft" ?

What am i missing.

Our cargo facility, the World Freight Terminal, is a community of more than 1,000 professionals managing freight-only aircraft as well as consignments that arrive or depart in the holds of passenger aircraft.

[Navpi]

Originally Posted by Rutan16

42psi your incite to some of
the history and minutiae of the strata and changes
within the airport handling is appreciated.

As for Gatwick Handling Dan Air and Laker were the founders if i remember correctly

You’re comments of the wider activities of MAG Group and their Australian partners is what alluded to as other activities.

I thought Manchester Handling started operations in 1985 ? Wasn't that about 14 years after the last Aer Lingus 5th freedom service operated or was there a 2nd incarnation?

I recall Cornelius Clark in a meeting with Gil Thompson as a lead mover who had Irish connections, possibly EI.

[42psi]

Originally Posted by Navpi

I thought Manchester Handling started operations in 1985 ? Wasn't that about 14 years after the last Aer Lingus 5th freedom service operated.

Nope, Manchester Handling under the name GH Manchester were in full swing by the time the Aer Lingus fifth freedom flights started (again) 1988.

[OzzyOzBorn]

If a wide body cargo flight ends up at EMA or STN, the revenue flows to MAG, which unless I am terribly confused, finds it's way back to the region eventually? There's nothing new to add here.

You're being disingenuous here, Skip. So dividends accrue to the shareholders. Who knew? But that isn't the point.

The MAG cargo policy implications for MAN include

- Lost potential employment opportunities on the campus
- Those lost employees and their dependents don't contribute to the local economy
- The city region's skill base is negatively impacted
- Fewer openings for school-leavers etc.
- The airport's offer to customers is devalued
- Freight forwarding via MAN is rendered sub-optimal
- The economic engine of the region is wilfully undermined
- Potential customers are let down
- Established MAN carriers are unable to supplement their regular services with whole plane freight operations
- Manchester Airport is less than the best version of what it could be

And that's just for starters.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Afew words of reassurance for lfc84 and BHX5DME.

I passed through T1 security at 07:00 this morning. No delays. Calm atmosphere. Friendly, helpful staff. Busy in the departure lounge, but found seating fine. Queues in the retail and F&B outlets well under control.

I passed through T3 arrivals at 21:50 this evening. Not a busy time, but straight through all formalities at walking pace. Soon out by the kerbside.

One really can't ask for more than that. Chris Woodroofe is doing a good job on this stuff.

And before you write me off as a 'happy clapper' re all things Manchester Airport, you'd better take a read of my comments on the cargo situation (above).

But credit where it is due. The user experience was flawless today.

[Navpi]

I'm glad someone has identified this key point.

"supplement their regular services with whole plane freight operations".

I too have wondered how much freight is being lost which could supplement and indeed in some cases "support" scheduled pax operations ? I wonder even if MAG know ?

It's a point MAG have possibly missed a trick on in not accepting whole plane charters.

[chaps1954]

Thing is though if it goes to EMA or STN it is still coming to same group, The authority know they are short of space for a couple of years whilst building work is going on so to save an embrarrasing
position of not having a stand for pax aircraft stop freight only, there have been similar positions at Gatwick and Heathrow over the years

[eggc]

...just to get away from Cargo even for a short while...if I said what airline has threated for the longest time to grace MAN who would you say ? Obviosuly you'll all say THAI

Well I've just seen a new route map of theirs that has a dotted line to MAN with "launching soon" - now in a world where anything and everything can be photoshopped I went straight to THAI website for confirmation and it is not the same route map and MAN isnt there.

So has anyone heard anything on THAI at all recently ?

[UnderASouthernSky]

Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn

One really can't ask for more than that. Chris Woodruffe is doing a good job on this stuff.

People really seem to struggle getting the MD's name right, for some reason.

[Rutan16]

EGGC.

No you are not committing an act of omission here.
The fact you offer a differed specification to traditional screen printing is quite legitimate, through you might want to check your legacy company literature and media; there is always the classic “reserve the right comment” available when selling goods in particular, services can be more nuanced..

Fundamentally to reduce the risk of falling fowl its the prime reason larger corporations have campaigns vetted by their legal teams and that they constantly have their web and social media content checked and updated all the time.

Final word on this is that Manchester Airport need to update their Cargo Website to reflect reality NOW imho.

As some said its well over decade old .

[eggc]

Thanks Rutan. I thoroughly agree with you that the MAG site needs to be brought upto date and 100% accurate...you would expect nothing less really from an orgainisation of MAG's size.

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by chaps1954

Thing is though if it goes to EMA or STN it is still coming to same group, The authority know they are short of space for a couple of years whilst building work is going on so to save an embrarrasing
position of not having a stand for pax aircraft stop freight only, there have been similar positions at Gatwick and Heathrow over the years

Again Manchester Airport can’t share or offer an alternative (within Group) when in receipt of a direct RFI. They must decline it .

Almost all RFI and tenders incorporate specific none collusion clauses that are legally binding.

Its really quite simple

[OzzyOzBorn]

Originally Posted by chaps1954

Thing is though if it goes to EMA or STN it is still coming to same group, The authority know they are short of space for a couple of years whilst building work is going on so to save an embrarrasing
position of not having a stand for pax aircraft stop freight only, there have been similar positions at Gatwick and Heathrow over the years

chaps1954 - I could write a detailed response to this, but better to refer you to post 2702 re space rather than annoy readers with repetition. And post 2784 addresses your first point on where the money goes. Post 2764 also refers.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Originally Posted by UnderASouthernSky

People really seem to struggle getting the MD's name right, for some reason.

Thanks for spotting this. It was a long day! Duly edited and corrected.

[HOVIS]

Originally Posted by eggc

...just to get away from Cargo even for a short while...if I said what airline has threated for the longest time to grace MAN who would you say ? Obviosuly you'll all say THAI

Well I've just seen a new route map of theirs that has a dotted line to MAN with "launching soon" - now in a world where anything and everything can be photoshopped I went straight to THAI website for confirmation and it is not the same route map and MAN isnt there.

So has anyone heard anything on THAI at all recently ?

A delegation toured the airport and visited various stakeholders in 2019, or was 18, I forget. Nothing came of it... Again.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn

You're being disingenuous here, Skip. So dividends accrue to the shareholders. Who knew? But that isn't the point.

The MAG cargo policy implications for MAN include

- Lost potential employment opportunities on the campus
- Those lost employees and their dependents don't contribute to the local economy
- The city region's skill base is negatively impacted
- Fewer openings for school-leavers etc.
- The airport's offer to customers is devalued
- Freight forwarding via MAN is rendered sub-optimal
- The economic engine of the region is wilfully undermined
- Potential customers are let down
- Established MAN carriers are unable to supplement their regular services with whole plane freight operations
- Manchester Airport is less than the best version of what it could be

And that's just for starters.

Good Lord man can you for once understand the power of brevity and a succint arguement? You think Cathay and Singapore need to send a main deck freighter to MAN? If they had a pressing need would they not already be at EMA? Cos cargo's not that fussed how it gets there. Nor are either MAN carrier at STN. You seriously think if either airline had a need they'd be saying "Manchester Airport or not at all!"

There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region. As if senior staff have THAT on their KPIs.

[spannersatcx]

CX only sends 2 a week freighters to LHR at present, as unless it's oversized or dangerous it all goes in the belly of the 5 or 6 pax flts per day. I was at MAN when CX/LD & KA all had daily 747F, alas those days are long gone.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Good Lord man can you for once understand the power of brevity and a succint arguement?

Well I see that your gloves are off, so I'll be blunt too. If you didn't disingenuously pretend that you don't understand the basics, I wouldn't need to spell them out to you in fine detail.

​​​​​​​ You think Cathay and Singapore need to send a main deck freighter to MAN?

Where has this come from? I never mentioned these two.

​​​​​​​ You seriously think if either airline had a need they'd be saying "Manchester Airport or not at all!"

Putting words in my mouth again. I have suggested no such thing. Speaking generally, a carrier will usually accept a second choice if it's preferred option is unavailable. That doesn't mean that option one wouldn't have better served their business needs (or those of their end customers).

​​​​​​​ There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region.

2007 = 165,366 Tonnes handled; 2023 = 64082 Tonnes. Enquiries being turned away or switch-sold?

Those are damning statistics which absolutely impact the economic engine of the region for the reasons itemised in post 2784. I stand by every word I wrote about this. MAG have prioritised the bottom line of their business over providing an acceptable level of cargo service to this region.

[Navpi]

Originally Posted by eggc

...just to get away from Cargo even for a short while...if I said what airline has threated for the longest time to grace MAN who would you say ? Obviosuly you'll all say THAI

Well I've just seen a new route map of theirs that has a dotted line to MAN with "launching soon" - now in a world where anything and everything can be photoshopped I went straight to THAI website for confirmation and it is not the same route map and MAN isnt there.

So has anyone heard anything on THAI at all recently ?

I am pretty sure THAI 1st surfaced in the eighties alongside perennial dissapointees Olympic.

[bobradamus]

Cargo is the most emotive subject. OFFICIALLY.