Manchester-3
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Good Lord man can you for once understand the power of brevity and a succint arguement? You think Cathay and Singapore need to send a main deck freighter to MAN? If they had a pressing need would they not already be at EMA? Cos cargo's not that fussed how it gets there. Nor are either MAN carrier at STN. You seriously think if either airline had a need they'd be saying "Manchester Airport or not at all!"
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region. As if senior staff have THAT on their KPIs.
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region. As if senior staff have THAT on their KPIs.
Where have you plucked Cathay and Singapore from ?
Lets at least talk facts rather than using our imagination to make things up and interweave these into the conversation.
You have randomly introduced two airlines plucked seemingly out of thin air which nobody has referenced at any point in the discussion ?
What's worse is the fact you then fantasise even more by making 2 or 3 further statements, as if you are responding to a recipients line of questions. This despite the fact they never made the observations to which you yourself refer in the first place !
Unfortunately its a trait which seems to be embedded in your DNA.
As for your observation......
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region
Shall we drop Andy Burnham, Henri Murison, Sheona Southern, Joe Manning et al a line and see what they think?
I'm pretty convinced the movers and shakers that referenced Manchester Airport as a Global Hub (see earlier quotes) know more about this subject than you, and would be aghast if you suggested inquiries to the airport about operating pure freight flights were met with a blanket "NO" coupled to a decision to go elsewhere, which as a minimum adds many hours and in some cases days to the process.
On what planet is that economically competitive???
Any airline operative making such an enquiry would i suspect be incredulous if they were told to go to another airport, based on no space, no staff and no equipment when there is a perception of a perfectly adequate international airport at the epicentre of the Northern supply chain, not 80+ miles and hours/ days outside its catchment area.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
I'm pretty sure that Manchester Airports perceived status and standing as a major international hub is being questioned given such a massive economic hole in its operational armoury.
To me such flights are as fundamental as an approach by an airline to operate pax flights.
And can we knock this issue of having no stand space 24/7 firmly on the head , slots are controlled by ACL, yes of course there are choke points as with any airport, notably 6am to 8am and possibly certain times in Winter where more aircraft are parked, but is still lots of opportunities, and as for agents not being able to meet criteria maybe a review on minimum service levels is required ?
Last edited by Navpi; 21st Jun 2023 at 06:53.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well this is truly bizarre !
Where have you plucked Cathay and Singapore from ?
Lets at least talk facts rather than using our imagination to make things up and interweave these into the conversation.
You have randomly introduced two airlines plucked seemingly out of thin air which nobody has referenced at any point in the discussion ?
What's worse is the fact you then fantasise even more by making 2 or 3 further statements, as if you are responding to a recipients line of questions. This despite the fact they never made the observations to which you yourself refer in the first place !
Unfortunately its a trait which seems to be embedded in your DNA.
As for your observation......
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region
Shall we drop Andy Burnham, Henri Murison, Sheona Southern, Joe Manning et al a line and see what they think?
I'm pretty convinced the movers and shakers that referenced Manchester Airport as a Global Hub (see earlier quotes) know more about this subject than you, and would be aghast if you suggested inquiries to the airport about operating pure freight flights were met with a blanket "NO" coupled to a decision to go elsewhere, which as a minimum adds many hours and in some cases days to the process.
On what planet is that economically competitive???
Any airline operative making such an enquiry would i suspect be incredulous if they were told to go to another airport, based on no space, no staff and no equipment when there is a perception of a perfectly adequate international airport at the epicentre of the Northern supply chain, not 80+ miles and hours/ days outside its catchment area.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
I'm pretty sure that Manchester Airports perceived status and standing as a major international hub is being questioned given such a massive economic hole in its operational armoury.
To me such flights are as fundamental as an approach by an airline to operate pax flights.
And can we knock this issue of having no stand space 24/7 firmly on the head , slots are controlled by ACL, yes of course there are choke points as with any airport, notably 6am to 8am and possibly certain times in Winter where more aircraft are parked, but is still lots of opportunities, and as for agents not being able to meet criteria maybe a review on minimum service levels is required ?
Where have you plucked Cathay and Singapore from ?
Lets at least talk facts rather than using our imagination to make things up and interweave these into the conversation.
You have randomly introduced two airlines plucked seemingly out of thin air which nobody has referenced at any point in the discussion ?
What's worse is the fact you then fantasise even more by making 2 or 3 further statements, as if you are responding to a recipients line of questions. This despite the fact they never made the observations to which you yourself refer in the first place !
Unfortunately its a trait which seems to be embedded in your DNA.
As for your observation......
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region
Shall we drop Andy Burnham, Henri Murison, Sheona Southern, Joe Manning et al a line and see what they think?
I'm pretty convinced the movers and shakers that referenced Manchester Airport as a Global Hub (see earlier quotes) know more about this subject than you, and would be aghast if you suggested inquiries to the airport about operating pure freight flights were met with a blanket "NO" coupled to a decision to go elsewhere, which as a minimum adds many hours and in some cases days to the process.
On what planet is that economically competitive???
Any airline operative making such an enquiry would i suspect be incredulous if they were told to go to another airport, based on no space, no staff and no equipment when there is a perception of a perfectly adequate international airport at the epicentre of the Northern supply chain, not 80+ miles and hours/ days outside its catchment area.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
I'm pretty sure that Manchester Airports perceived status and standing as a major international hub is being questioned given such a massive economic hole in its operational armoury.
To me such flights are as fundamental as an approach by an airline to operate pax flights.
And can we knock this issue of having no stand space 24/7 firmly on the head , slots are controlled by ACL, yes of course there are choke points as with any airport, notably 6am to 8am and possibly certain times in Winter where more aircraft are parked, but is still lots of opportunities, and as for agents not being able to meet criteria maybe a review on minimum service levels is required ?
Well this is truly bizarre !
Where have you plucked Cathay and Singapore from ?
Lets at least talk facts rather than using our imagination to make things up and interweave these into the conversation.
You have randomly introduced two airlines plucked seemingly out of thin air which nobody has referenced at any point in the discussion ?
What's worse is the fact you then fantasise even more by making 2 or 3 further statements, as if you are responding to a recipients line of questions. This despite the fact they never made the observations to which you yourself refer in the first place !
Unfortunately its a trait which seems to be embedded in your DNA.
As for your observation......
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region
Shall we drop Andy Burnham, Henri Murison, Sheona Southern, Joe Manning et al a line and see what they think?
I'm pretty convinced the movers and shakers that referenced Manchester Airport as a Global Hub (see earlier quotes) know more about this subject than you, and would be aghast if you suggested inquiries to the airport about operating pure freight flights were met with a blanket "NO" coupled to a decision to go elsewhere, which as a minimum adds many hours and in some cases days to the process.
On what planet is that economically competitive???
Any airline operative making such an enquiry would i suspect be incredulous if they were told to go to another airport, based on no space, no staff and no equipment when there is a perception of a perfectly adequate international airport at the epicentre of the Northern supply chain, not 80+ miles and hours/ days outside its catchment area.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
I'm pretty sure that Manchester Airports perceived status and standing as a major international hub is being questioned given such a massive economic hole in its operational armoury.
To me such flights are as fundamental as an approach by an airline to operate pax flights.
And can we knock this issue of having no stand space 24/7 firmly on the head , slots are controlled by ACL, yes of course there are choke points as with any airport, notably 6am to 8am and possibly certain times in Winter where more aircraft are parked, but is still lots of opportunities, and as for agents not being able to meet criteria maybe a review on minimum service levels is required ?
Where have you plucked Cathay and Singapore from ?
Lets at least talk facts rather than using our imagination to make things up and interweave these into the conversation.
You have randomly introduced two airlines plucked seemingly out of thin air which nobody has referenced at any point in the discussion ?
What's worse is the fact you then fantasise even more by making 2 or 3 further statements, as if you are responding to a recipients line of questions. This despite the fact they never made the observations to which you yourself refer in the first place !
Unfortunately its a trait which seems to be embedded in your DNA.
As for your observation......
There's no reasoning with someone that claims with a straight face that MAG are wilfully letting down the economic engine of the region
Shall we drop Andy Burnham, Henri Murison, Sheona Southern, Joe Manning et al a line and see what they think?
I'm pretty convinced the movers and shakers that referenced Manchester Airport as a Global Hub (see earlier quotes) know more about this subject than you, and would be aghast if you suggested inquiries to the airport about operating pure freight flights were met with a blanket "NO" coupled to a decision to go elsewhere, which as a minimum adds many hours and in some cases days to the process.
On what planet is that economically competitive???
Any airline operative making such an enquiry would i suspect be incredulous if they were told to go to another airport, based on no space, no staff and no equipment when there is a perception of a perfectly adequate international airport at the epicentre of the Northern supply chain, not 80+ miles and hours/ days outside its catchment area.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
I'm pretty sure that Manchester Airports perceived status and standing as a major international hub is being questioned given such a massive economic hole in its operational armoury.
To me such flights are as fundamental as an approach by an airline to operate pax flights.
And can we knock this issue of having no stand space 24/7 firmly on the head , slots are controlled by ACL, yes of course there are choke points as with any airport, notably 6am to 8am and possibly certain times in Winter where more aircraft are parked, but is still lots of opportunities, and as for agents not being able to meet criteria maybe a review on minimum service levels is required ?
Also, the airport is full. Just ask the various airlines how many towing operations they have to perform and how many aircraft have to depart from remote stands. Day and night. Yes, cargo ops would be nice and lucrative but at the moment there just isn't the Space.
No, Manchester Airport is NOT full. And nor was it full back in the year to end of September 2019 when it handled 35,504 more flights and 3.6 million more passengers than in the 12 months to end of May 2023. Yes, there are some stands out of service. But the same applied back then too. Some stands have been lost since then, but at least 24 new ones have been opened as well.
Increased use of remote stands and towing does not mean that an airport is full. It means that servicing remote stands is a larger proposition than before. I can understand why handling agents dislike remote stands, but they're an integral part of most major airports nowadays. And you're going to have to learn to live with use of remotes even more than now. MAG's most recent PR refers to the latest new pier as the "final" part of the TP, which suggests two piers in total rather than the originally envisaged four. So there will be remote stands on the footprint of the two piers not constructed, and according to plans announced, Piers B and C stands will need to be serviced as remotes from 2025 when T1 core closes. Fortunately, MAN already has an impressive fleet of cobi which can be seen grazing in their compound just to the North of Pier 1. They just need to ensure that there are plenty of drivers employed and appropriately rostered to operate them.
Increased incidence of towing on the apron reflects demand for contact stands. It is understandable that airlines wish to maximise use of these. But this does NOT indicate that all the remotes are simultaneously occupied. There ARE vacant remote stands, and these are what whole-plane cargo aircraft would be assigned to use on every conceivable occasion. There is ample space for that.
Increased use of remote stands and towing does not mean that an airport is full. It means that servicing remote stands is a larger proposition than before. I can understand why handling agents dislike remote stands, but they're an integral part of most major airports nowadays. And you're going to have to learn to live with use of remotes even more than now. MAG's most recent PR refers to the latest new pier as the "final" part of the TP, which suggests two piers in total rather than the originally envisaged four. So there will be remote stands on the footprint of the two piers not constructed, and according to plans announced, Piers B and C stands will need to be serviced as remotes from 2025 when T1 core closes. Fortunately, MAN already has an impressive fleet of cobi which can be seen grazing in their compound just to the North of Pier 1. They just need to ensure that there are plenty of drivers employed and appropriately rostered to operate them.
Increased incidence of towing on the apron reflects demand for contact stands. It is understandable that airlines wish to maximise use of these. But this does NOT indicate that all the remotes are simultaneously occupied. There ARE vacant remote stands, and these are what whole-plane cargo aircraft would be assigned to use on every conceivable occasion. There is ample space for that.
Sorry my friend but when you make statements that start with 'I'm pretty sure that...' I know you're guessing.
Also, the airport is full. Just ask the various airlines how many towing operations they have to perform and how many aircraft have to depart from remote stands. Day and night. Yes, cargo ops would be nice and lucrative but at the moment there just isn't the space.
Also, the airport is full. Just ask the various airlines how many towing operations they have to perform and how many aircraft have to depart from remote stands. Day and night. Yes, cargo ops would be nice and lucrative but at the moment there just isn't the space.
And this idea that East Midlands is in the back end of beyond. How does the rest of the country survive?
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All this talk of Manchester serving the North. Doesn't it actually need to be in the North to serve it? More like the Midlands. Newcastle and Teesside are true northern England airports.
Being serious, all this talk of MAN letting down 'the North' and the region does seem very Manchester-centric.
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On a positive note however, through check in and security.in under 10 mins on Sunday morning. Staff were still grumpy, but a vast improvement on the 2 hours I experienced last year
Being serious, all this talk of MAN letting down 'the North' and the region does seem very Manchester-centric.
Referring to "the region" does not troll any other region. And the only reference to "the North" in recent posts is a direct quote from the airport's own PR literature. What term would you use in place of "the region" ... I can't think of anything more apt. And Manchester Airport's economic reach encompasses a population far exceeding that of Scotland (where significant cargo handling capability exists), so discussion of the issue on this thread is entirely legitimate.
I think it is clear that those debating cargo here are not doing so in the spirit of trolling airports further north.
#2749
#2801
You can understand how the confusion arose...
Manchester Airport is first and foremost the Global Gateway for the North, that has to include pure freight, therefore there has to be a way to square this circle to the benefit of all parties, agents MAG, and business.
Any airline operative making such an enquiry would i suspect be incredulous if they were told to go to another airport, based on no space, no staff and no equipment when there is a perception of a perfectly adequate international airport at the epicentre of the Northern supply chain, not 80+ miles and hours/ days outside its catchment area.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
At any level its inconceivable to expect manufacturing and distribution companies in the North to willingly accept such delays and hinders the North's ability to compete competitively with no major freight hub at its centre.
Do any of you people actually work at MAN? I do, I know it's full because I see it with my own eyes. If an aircraft that arrives at 7am has to be towed to a remote stand, and then towed back again to make a lunch time departure, just to clear a contact stand for another operator to do the same, it's full!
I remember the days when we had a dozen 747s turning around every day, only one had to be towed remote (QANTAS).
I remember the days when we had a dozen 747s turning around every day, only one had to be towed remote (QANTAS).
You can understand how the confusion arose...
I do, I know it's full because I see it with my own eyes. If an aircraft that arrives at 7am has to be towed to a remote stand, and then towed back again to make a lunch time departure, just to clear a contact stand for another operator to do the same, it's full!
Based on that, I understand that you must be the most sensitive soul on here, and that takes some doing! You've found the airport PR piece which I mentioned already and just ONE other (innocuous) example.
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Do any of you people actually work at MAN? I do, I know it's full because I see it with my own eyes. If an aircraft that arrives at 7am has to be towed to a remote stand, and then towed back again to make a lunch time departure, just to clear a contact stand for another operator to do the same, it's full!
I remember the days when we had a dozen 747s turning around every day, only one had to be towed remote (QANTAS).
I remember the days when we had a dozen 747s turning around every day, only one had to be towed remote (QANTAS).
What do you ?
Its always interesting to get a forensic view from inside the fence, although one presumes from what you have said it's back office and not apron operations.
Best utilisation of stands goes on at all airports does it not? That same stand could be used 2 or 3 times.
Do you honestly expect an aircraft just lay in situ for 12hours ?
Last edited by Navpi; 21st Jun 2023 at 18:16.
