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Manchester-3

Old 16th Mar 2024, 13:44
  #3721 (permalink)  
 
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And surely the Arrow Air DC-8 cargo flights previously seen at Manchester were ad hoc charters rather than a full scheduled cargo service.

I could well be wrong, but I'm not aware of Arrow Air ever previously operating fully fledged cargo flights into the UK, especially on a scheduled basis.

But again, I stand to be corrected.

Of course, passenger flights by Arrow Air DC-8 and DC-10 were regularly seen in the UK and, in particular, at LGW, where the airline flew scheduled flights from Denver and Tampa during the mid 80s.

There must have been loads of ad-hoc cargo flights into Manchester over the years, but I think the topic is regarding fully fledged scheduled cargo flights rather than including ad-hoc cargo movements.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 14:40
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Also Cargolux 1996-2004
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 17:29
  #3723 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rutan16
Nope Air China Cargo served Manchester with 747 freighter scheduled services between 2007 and 2009 .

The List of former Freight operators is pretty long.

Straight off the top of my head

Air China Cargo
China Airlines
Air Hong Kong
Cathay Pacific
Some Singapore Carrier name i forget
Aeroflot
North West Orient
Air Express ( CL-44 !)
Emery ( DC-8)

And back into 70s just about every European flag carrier at stupid o’clock

Sure missed a few !
Greatwall and Dragonair cargo
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 18:14
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Manchester has a conurbation larger than many European cities, its borderline preposterous that there are no pure freight flights.

MAN finally being held to account putting capacity where demand originates not artificial deflection 2 hours away. CW won't what any black marks on the CV.

As has been said since the Ice Cream man was sidelined from day to day operations the improvement in performance across all depts has been significant.

Last edited by Navpi; 16th Mar 2024 at 18:24.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 20:10
  #3725 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rutan16
Nope Air China Cargo served Manchester with 747 freighter scheduled services between 2007 and 2009 .

The List of former Freight operators is pretty long.

Straight off the top of my head

Air China Cargo
China Airlines
Air Hong Kong
Cathay Pacific
Some Singapore Carrier name i forget
Aeroflot
North West Orient
Air Express ( CL-44 !)
Emery ( DC-8)

And back into 70s just about every European flag carrier at stupid o’clock

Sure missed a few !
For part of the duration, the Emery Worldwide service was flown under contract by Rosenbalm Aviation with DC-8s in Emery c/s. I remember listening to them on my airband as a young youth. Their crews used the shortened "Rosy" callsign which always made me smile. One crew also referred to their allocated stand as a pan, much to the bemusement of Manchester Ground.

I'm pretty sure Transamerica ran a regular cargo operation in their own name with stretched DC-8s but this might have been a precursor to Emery taking the service over with metal in their own colours. I can even remember the inbound callsign Transamerica 668 being used. It was a couple of years earlier than the Rosenbalm operation. I've an old MAN Airport glossy rag somewhere with a Transamerica 8 pictured on one of the 60s stands.

Happy days.
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 20:47
  #3726 (permalink)  
 
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I certainly remember the Rosenbalm flights. I may be incorrect with regards to Arrow Air, I do remember them arriving frequently although it was some time ago!
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Old 16th Mar 2024, 21:28
  #3727 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chaps1954
Must say I don`t remember Air China only the very odd one in 1997 and 2015.
The 2015 visit was by President Xi Jinping, when the Hainan flights were added. George Osbourne was there too. 🤣
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 08:03
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Originally Posted by BHX5DME
Looks like BHX turned these flights away as too busy handling endless B744F's, a third airline operating this Saturday using YR-FSA
Is four in a week an endless flow? Of course there is more to handling freight than getting it on and off the aircraft, so it could be the warehousing/distribution etc is a bottleneck.

Originally Posted by JerseyAero
Thanks, yes I read that ... I wonder if they would make the equipment available to other cargo operators/handlers, if there was further interest from airlines in commencing operations at MAN ?
Loaders capable of main desck loading can be used for loading containers into the belly as well. It would be surprising if any equipment was solely for the use of Air China, sure the handlers can find plenty of work for it.

Last edited by SWBKCB; 17th Mar 2024 at 09:44.
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 09:49
  #3729 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Is four in a week an endless flow? Of course there is more to handling freight than getting it on and off the aircraft, so it could be the warehousing/distribution etc is a bottleneck.



Loaders capable of main desck loading can be used for loading containers into the belly as well. It would be surprising if any equipment was solely for the use of Air Chine, sure the handlers can find plenty of work for it.
From the BHX discussion on the "Air China affair" it seems the problem is more related to transit shed capacity. I don't know what Magma are carrying, but I would assume its general cargo rather than a single client load (FCL in maritime terminology) so inevitably some shipments will go through the shed faster than others. The concern make be that adding much more business at BHX may screw up existing carriers, particularly the likes of Emirates and Qatar cargo business.

The China all cargo bubble will probably subside when Suez reopens, and both the current BHX and potential Air China MAN operations could end as quickly as they begin.

Both airports need to make the proverbial hay while the sun shines.
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 10:19
  #3730 (permalink)  
 
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There are multiple daily freight Chinese flights into Stansted which have operated for years, that is in isolation of any issues with the Suez Canal.

A significant proportion of that freight originates and is bound for the North of England as indeed it was 10 years ago.

The demise of MAN flights and the subsequent ten years worth of additional expansion remains freight which was artificially diverted from Manchester. See Also EMA.

By way of example there are 4 today 5 Monday.

I would have thought you are simply putting the flights back where the demand orginates, demand which has been there for years. Must confess I'm hopeful we will see some of that STN traffic diverted back to Manchester.




Last edited by Navpi; 17th Mar 2024 at 12:07.
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 10:33
  #3731 (permalink)  
 
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So far in 2024 we have had announcements the following new airlines or reinstated airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines
Royal Air Maroc
Air China Cargo
Luxair
China Eastern
Southwind Airlines

Rumours may return in near future

Fedex
Lufthansa Cargo
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 11:01
  #3732 (permalink)  
 
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Juneyao Airlines mentioned at #3702. Reported elsewhare that Southwind have withdrawn their planned UK operations for this summer?
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 12:00
  #3733 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SCFC1EP
So far in 2024 we have had announcements the following new airlines or reinstated airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines
Royal Air Maroc
Air China Cargo
Luxair
China Eastern
Southwind Airlines

Rumours may return in near future

Fedex
Lufthansa Cargo
And more to come!
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 14:09
  #3734 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SCFC1EP
So far in 2024 we have had announcements the following new airlines or reinstated airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines
Royal Air Maroc
Air China Cargo
Luxair
China Eastern
Southwind Airlines

Rumours may return in near future

Fedex
Lufthansa Cargo
How many of the above have actually been officially announced by the airline and/or airports involved? How many are actually bookable?
Seems to me that people seeing applications for slots can be too quick to assume a route is starting.
Sometimes slots can be put in for strategically with no real plan yet to commence on that date, if at all.
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 14:20
  #3735 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AircraftOperations
How many of the above have actually been officially announced by the airline and/or airports involved? How many are actually bookable?
Seems to me that people seeing applications for slots can be too quick to assume a route is starting.
Sometimes slots can be put in for strategically with no real plan yet to commence on that date, if at all.
Jordanian already flying now. Air China Cargo is now visble on thier website. RAM was conifmed by MAN last week. Luxair conifmred months ago and starts soon. Southwind announced but now not bothering. FedEx also confirmed. Only one not seen anything on is Lufty Cargo. Juneyao not in that list but confirmed by the airline last week also, so these conversations are very much based on confimred rather than applications.
:

Last edited by eggc; 17th Mar 2024 at 14:58.
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 15:43
  #3736 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SCFC1EP
So far in 2024 we have had announcements the following new airlines or reinstated airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines
Royal Air Maroc
Air China Cargo
Luxair
China Eastern
Southwind Airlines

Rumours may return in near future

Fedex
Lufthansa Cargo
Lufthansa cargo have not indicated any intention to return in the short term, there is however another existing operator to MAN who may soon bring in an A321F in addition the their pax ops.
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 16:11
  #3737 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The96er
Lufthansa cargo have not indicated any intention to return in the short term, there is however another existing operator to MAN who may soon bring in an A321F in addition the their pax ops.
Other than LH I'm struggling ?
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 16:11
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I think it was due to the sleeping Russian partners and owner of Southwind that scuppered their UK and EU expansion objectives.

Given the confirmation of Juneyao start date in July I don’t expect China Eastern to compete. ( Maybe wrong however the one airline one route rule and the fact that Juneyao are within the same sphere of influence as MU would suggest otherwise)

Luxair has been bootable for months
Alia already started at both MAG prime airports
RAM due to open shortly a somewhat accelerated return from them ( maybe down to temporary suspension of Tel Aviv and availability of a freed up 737 ?)

What MAG needs for 2024/5 now must surely be United and or American.

Within Europe what’s really left LOT and or ITA and the ever reliable Air Baltic ( here today gone tomorrow but back next week) and one or other of the former Yugoslav carriers I suppose.

What I would also like to see a restoration of Larnaca year round.

Anything else is incremental now something along the lines of the third Swiss restored, Lyon year round, Nantes on Orange ( Harp service is rubbish ) and a consistent daily flight on Iberia ( Express)


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Old 17th Mar 2024, 16:37
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[QUOTE=Rutan16;11617864]I think it was due to the sleeping Russian partners and owner of Southwind that scuppered their UK and EU expansion objectives.

Given the confirmation of Juneyao start date in July I don’t expect China Eastern to compete. ( Maybe wrong however the one airline one route rule and the fact that Juneyao are within the same sphere of influence as MU would suggest otherwise)

I believe Juneyao replaces China Eastern
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Old 17th Mar 2024, 16:50
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[QUOTE=BHX5DME;11617880]
Originally Posted by Rutan16
I think it was due to the sleeping Russian partners and owner of Southwind that scuppered their UK and EU expansion objectives.

Given the confirmation of Juneyao start date in July I don’t expect China Eastern to compete. ( Maybe wrong however the one airline one route rule and the fact that Juneyao are within the same sphere of influence as MU would suggest otherwise)

I believe Juneyao replaces China Eastern
Isn’t that what I said ; it was one or t’other !

Juneyao are around 25-30% owned by the same Chinese regional “development” and government bodies as are China Eastern anyway.

Remenber the Chinese Aviation industry is little more than a Ponzi scheme, international projection and manipulation of the three alliances is their goal 🤔👍
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