BIRMINGHAM - 6
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Easyjet
Clearly it would appear there was little substance in recent posts suggesting that Easyjet might establish a base at BHX for the summer. However, they are releasing their winter routes (up until March, tomorrow). Apart from the expected, could there be a surprise in store?
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EK/TCX
groundhogbhx
Cheers - makes the load factor look slightly better! Some of the websites I use for seating plans can be a little slow with updates
Sanford
Thomas Cook Sanford bookable 11/4/2014-25/04/2014 - is this just an Easter one off flight or anything more permanent in the offing?
Pete
Cheers - makes the load factor look slightly better! Some of the websites I use for seating plans can be a little slow with updates
Sanford
Thomas Cook Sanford bookable 11/4/2014-25/04/2014 - is this just an Easter one off flight or anything more permanent in the offing?
Pete
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EK
EK
ENI has just gone over Yelloeknife at 35000ft on delivery to Dubai!!!
I notice Manchester is getting the 487 seat A380's from June until the end of August and I suppose the three class 777's will be showing up at BHX as well.
March has seen an all 428 seat operation thus far - hopefully a sign loads have recovered.
Pete
ENI has just gone over Yelloeknife at 35000ft on delivery to Dubai!!!
I notice Manchester is getting the 487 seat A380's from June until the end of August and I suppose the three class 777's will be showing up at BHX as well.
March has seen an all 428 seat operation thus far - hopefully a sign loads have recovered.
Pete
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Air India at Birmingham
More speculation on UK- India flights with Air India see the link below 
Air India to start Melbourne, Milan
Daza
Air India to start Melbourne, Milan
Daza
Last edited by Daza; 27th Mar 2013 at 14:42.
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I personally wouldn't read too much into the quote just yet.
The quote regarding Birmingham is not anything from AI itself, but the opinion of the author, who has an obvious bias towards BHX due to his previous role (and as good as admits that bias).
In his dismissal of MAN, he has totally overlooked the fact Delhi is AI's main long haul hub, and Delhi on its own has a larger demand to MAN than BHX.
Don't forget though, this is Air India we are talking about, the obvious choice isn't always the choice they go for....
The quote regarding Birmingham is not anything from AI itself, but the opinion of the author, who has an obvious bias towards BHX due to his previous role (and as good as admits that bias).
In his dismissal of MAN, he has totally overlooked the fact Delhi is AI's main long haul hub, and Delhi on its own has a larger demand to MAN than BHX.
Don't forget though, this is Air India we are talking about, the obvious choice isn't always the choice they go for....
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BHX-DEL
LAX_LHR wrote
Where do you get this information from? Can you provide evidence to support this?
According to the 2001 census there are almost 200,000 people in the West Midlands whos' families have their origin in India as opposed to just over 100,000 in the Northwest. Remember that Leicester and the East Midlands also has a large population of people whos' families are from India too (143,000) and Leicester/Nottingham/Derby are easily accessible from Birmingham Airport.
Link British Indian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Indeed Birmingham and the West Midlands has more people whos' families originated outside the UK than any other city outside London with the exception of the Chinese community where Birmingham and Manchester are equal second and Italian community which is relatively low in the West Midlands.
Link Lists of UK locations with large ethnic minority populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Daza
Delhi on its own has a larger demand to MAN than BHX.
According to the 2001 census there are almost 200,000 people in the West Midlands whos' families have their origin in India as opposed to just over 100,000 in the Northwest. Remember that Leicester and the East Midlands also has a large population of people whos' families are from India too (143,000) and Leicester/Nottingham/Derby are easily accessible from Birmingham Airport.
Link British Indian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Indeed Birmingham and the West Midlands has more people whos' families originated outside the UK than any other city outside London with the exception of the Chinese community where Birmingham and Manchester are equal second and Italian community which is relatively low in the West Midlands.
Link Lists of UK locations with large ethnic minority populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Daza
Last edited by Daza; 27th Mar 2013 at 15:49.
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Daz, I think we are talking about 2 separate markets here.
BHX has its strong point, and obvious larger market in Armitsar and the Punjab region.
Therefore, if we translate this into route talk, a BHX-ATQ route would trump just about any other UK and European point.
However, DELHI, and just DELHI, has a higher O&D from MAN than BHX. I will have to see if there is public link, but, the CAA have produced figures where MAN-XXX-DEL was around 75,000 pax per anum, with another 20,000 travelling over ground to other points to get to DEL.
BHX had around 56,000 BHX-XXX-DEL flights, with a leakage of around 16,000 over ground.
Now, you can quote figures for all of India as much as you like, as we all know BHX-XXX-India on the whole trumps MAN, but, I am talking about DELHI, Air India's hub and DELHI alone, not INDIA as a whole.
It is evident the market I also more sought after as DEL are offering an incentive for a carrier to start DEL-MAN, and not BHX.
Probably starting a bun fight here, Manchester's Chinese population is, and always has been larger than Brum's, and Im sure you will find the fact that according to Wikipedia, Manc and Brum have exactly the same population a bit suspect? However, I will let you off as I see we are trusting the ever reliable Wikipedia, the source of 100% fact where only those in the authority can edit the entries. Oh, hang on.....
While we are on the 'trusting wikipedia' moment, I see Manchester is only 4,000 or so behind Birmingham for the size of the Indian community, hardly a stellar lead that make an India link to Brum so obvious is it?
It also shows how distorted the travel market is, because, despite the larger populations in B'hm, MAN has more Pakistan flights, had the Bangladesh flights and has a scheduled carribean flight
BHX has its strong point, and obvious larger market in Armitsar and the Punjab region.
Therefore, if we translate this into route talk, a BHX-ATQ route would trump just about any other UK and European point.
However, DELHI, and just DELHI, has a higher O&D from MAN than BHX. I will have to see if there is public link, but, the CAA have produced figures where MAN-XXX-DEL was around 75,000 pax per anum, with another 20,000 travelling over ground to other points to get to DEL.
BHX had around 56,000 BHX-XXX-DEL flights, with a leakage of around 16,000 over ground.
Now, you can quote figures for all of India as much as you like, as we all know BHX-XXX-India on the whole trumps MAN, but, I am talking about DELHI, Air India's hub and DELHI alone, not INDIA as a whole.
It is evident the market I also more sought after as DEL are offering an incentive for a carrier to start DEL-MAN, and not BHX.
Indeed Birmingham and the West Midlands has more people whos' families originated outside the UK than any other city outside London with the exception of the Chinese community where Birmingham and Manchester are equal second and Italian community which is relatively low in the West Midlands
While we are on the 'trusting wikipedia' moment, I see Manchester is only 4,000 or so behind Birmingham for the size of the Indian community, hardly a stellar lead that make an India link to Brum so obvious is it?
It also shows how distorted the travel market is, because, despite the larger populations in B'hm, MAN has more Pakistan flights, had the Bangladesh flights and has a scheduled carribean flight
Last edited by LAX_LHR; 27th Mar 2013 at 16:25.
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The return of AI
An EZY base at BHX
QR to start BHX-DOH
Wouldn't it be great if just one of these long standing runours actually happened! It's an upbeat article about AI but I agree with LAX_LHR it's based on author opinion alone. We can safely say that AI are looking into another UK airport to serve, but whether this will be BHX is very 50/50 seeing as route development seems focused on their DEL hub but ATQ is where pax from this area want to fly. One stop long haul routes eg BHX-ATQ-DEL simply add cost and complexity compared to DEL non-stop which as has been discussed might be more attractive to AI to do from MAN.
The article is wrong in one respect - it says AI have served BHX once before, they have in fact served it twice, they flew 707's from 1980-ish to 1984 routing BHX-SVO-ATQ-DEL (or maybe it was BHX-SVO-DEL-ATQ, can't remember that far back!).
An EZY base at BHX
QR to start BHX-DOH
Wouldn't it be great if just one of these long standing runours actually happened! It's an upbeat article about AI but I agree with LAX_LHR it's based on author opinion alone. We can safely say that AI are looking into another UK airport to serve, but whether this will be BHX is very 50/50 seeing as route development seems focused on their DEL hub but ATQ is where pax from this area want to fly. One stop long haul routes eg BHX-ATQ-DEL simply add cost and complexity compared to DEL non-stop which as has been discussed might be more attractive to AI to do from MAN.
The article is wrong in one respect - it says AI have served BHX once before, they have in fact served it twice, they flew 707's from 1980-ish to 1984 routing BHX-SVO-ATQ-DEL (or maybe it was BHX-SVO-DEL-ATQ, can't remember that far back!).
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One stop long haul routes eg BHX-ATQ-DEL simply add cost and complexity compared to DEL non-stop which as has been discussed might be more attractive to AI to do from MAN
I think this is just a wait and see scenario, but given AI's history of starting and stopping MAN and BHX back when competition was minimal, it will be interesting to see how long they stick around in the face of gulf competition.
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Birmingham-India
LAX_LHR wrote
I look forward to reading the figures when you have them. The figures I provided were from the 2001 census via Wikipaedia.
Also remember that Birmingham and the West Midlands also have strong industrial links to India such as TATA who own Jaguar (based in Mumbai) its not just friends and family that would use the service.
We will have to wait and see who starts services from where. If they start at all!
Remember that this is the Birmingham thread too and the Moderators have deleted post that keep mentioning airports other than Birmingham.
Daza
However, DELHI, and just DELHI, has a higher O&D from MAN than BHX. I will have to see if there is public link, but, the CAA have produced figures where MAN-XXX-DEL was around 75,000 pax per anum, with another 20,000 travelling over ground to other points to get to DEL.
Also remember that Birmingham and the West Midlands also have strong industrial links to India such as TATA who own Jaguar (based in Mumbai) its not just friends and family that would use the service.
We will have to wait and see who starts services from where. If they start at all!
Remember that this is the Birmingham thread too and the Moderators have deleted post that keep mentioning airports other than Birmingham.
Daza
Last edited by Daza; 27th Mar 2013 at 17:22.
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Whilst I cannot link the CAA stats, but to tide you over here is a snippet from 2010:
Delhi Indira Gandhi International Airport (DEL/VIDP) | The Route Shop
Now, according to the CAA, the market has grown since then, but hopefully it helps show if it was the 3rd largest o&d market back then, its a similar story now. The market has grown by 19,000 in just under 3 years, so shows the power behind a route too
True BHX has the weight of manufacturing behind it, so it seems both destinations have good reasons to get a route. I was hoping AI would go to B'ham and Jet come to MAN for an even spread, but, given the tie in with Etihad, I would put good bets on Jet not serving any extra UK points so it seems only AI is the option for regional flights to India.
Remember that this is the Birmingham thread too and the Moderators have
deleted post that keep mentioning airports other than Birmingham
If that's your hope then would be unfair given and by your wink smiley would be an underhand tactic by yourself to win the argument, as the nature of the article you posted was essentially MAN vs BHX given its title, and so seems legitimate to talk about the 2 for pro's and cons. Or is it so inconceivable to you that another airport could have the potential for an India flight that your only option is to hope for the other airports name deletion?
Annual O&D between New Delhi and Manchester is 54,000 passengers. Currently no non-stop flights operate between Manchester and New Delhi. Third biggest O&D market in the UK and one of the largest un-served in Europe.
Now, according to the CAA, the market has grown since then, but hopefully it helps show if it was the 3rd largest o&d market back then, its a similar story now. The market has grown by 19,000 in just under 3 years, so shows the power behind a route too
True BHX has the weight of manufacturing behind it, so it seems both destinations have good reasons to get a route. I was hoping AI would go to B'ham and Jet come to MAN for an even spread, but, given the tie in with Etihad, I would put good bets on Jet not serving any extra UK points so it seems only AI is the option for regional flights to India.
Remember that this is the Birmingham thread too and the Moderators have
deleted post that keep mentioning airports other than Birmingham
Last edited by LAX_LHR; 27th Mar 2013 at 17:30.
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Birmingham thread!!!!
LAX_LHR wrote
All I asked was for your evidence. I provided evidence to support what I was trying to point out, you however did not.
LAX_LHR wrote
Which city do you think is second?
As for making it a BHX v MAN thread I was attempting to balance the argument. I have seen this before and the MODS will just delete the Birmingham thread if things drift from Birmingham Airport!
We all have our favourite airports and I have read your comments on other threads it is obvious that you have an interest in an airport in the North West of England, which is fine, my interest lies with Birmingham airport hence why my posts relate to Birmingham Airport. If someone challenges my posts all I ask for is evidence many people on here say all sorts of things often with little or no factual basis. The smile I added was an attempt to be conciliatory, people will disagree with you from time-to-time in a public forum.
Daza
the nature of the article you posted was essentially MAN vs BHX given its title, and so seems legitimate to talk about the 2 for pro's and cons
LAX_LHR wrote
Annual O&D between New Delhi and Manchester is 54,000 passengers. Currently no non-stop flights operate between Manchester and New Delhi. Third biggest O&D market in the UK and one of the largest un-served in Europe.
As for making it a BHX v MAN thread I was attempting to balance the argument. I have seen this before and the MODS will just delete the Birmingham thread if things drift from Birmingham Airport!
We all have our favourite airports and I have read your comments on other threads it is obvious that you have an interest in an airport in the North West of England, which is fine, my interest lies with Birmingham airport hence why my posts relate to Birmingham Airport. If someone challenges my posts all I ask for is evidence many people on here say all sorts of things often with little or no factual basis. The smile I added was an attempt to be conciliatory, people will disagree with you from time-to-time in a public forum.
Daza
Last edited by Daza; 27th Mar 2013 at 17:43.
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All I asked was for your evidence. I provided evidence to support what I was trying to point out, you however did not
Which city do you think is second?
As for making it a BHX v MAN thread I was attempting to balance the argument.
I have seen this before and the MODS will just delete the Birmingham thread if things drift from Birmingham Airport!
I have seen this before and the MODS will just delete the Birmingham thread if things drift from Birmingham Airport!
The
smile I added was an attempt to be conciliatory, people will disagree with you from time-to-time in a public forum
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LAX_LHR wrote
LAX_LHR in post 248 you wrote
You bought Manchester into the equation. You made a comment about the demand for Air travel between the UK regions and Delhi but didn't provide any evidence. How is this balance? 
You also wrote
For the second time, the figures are from the 2001 census. The actual evidence can be looked at via the links at the bottom of the Wikipaedia page.
Daza
Lets just clear something up. You posted an article that brought MAN into the equation. I am merely discussing the merits of that article, which unfortunately means MAN has to be brought in it. How can you have a balanced argument if the other half of said argument 'cannot be mentioned'.
In his dismissal of MAN, he has totally overlooked the fact Delhi is AI's main long haul hub, and Delhi on its own has a larger demand to MAN than BHX
You also wrote
A Wikipedia article, which had some questionable figures at best, and quite frankly, wikipedia is as reliable as a forum such as this. Anybody can post 'facts' on there with little or no verification. Hardly watertight evidence to be frank.
Daza
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You bought Manchester into the equation
Well Im going to disagree here but leave it at that, as we are going round on circles
You made a comment about the demand for Air travel between the UK regions and Delhi but didn't provide any evidence. How is this balance?
However, as you continue to push this fact, here. Use the link below, pay your £75+VAT fee and you will see for yourself. Im certainly not going to pay over £75 just to settle a petty debate on an anonymous forum.
Survey Bespoke | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
And then hey presto, all the evidence you could possibly need
Personally, I think we should agree to disagree here, as I can see this going on for a while. You think one thing, I think another and neither of us are willing to budge.
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The long and short of it is that the market to India from MAN and BHX is going to be very similar, given 100 miles down the road there's a myriad of choice to India it would seem the sensible option is for AI to start from MAN and service Brum and the West Mids from either LHR or MAN given the relative close proximity whilst better serving the population from the North West and Yorkshire with a more local direct option.
I'm sure we can all reasonably agree that aside from seeing a rather attractive 777 landing and taking off, and AI 777's are pretty attractive there's little to really gain from having them serve here. Jet would be different as they seem to have a strategy and a general clue but I'm really not so sure we should be falling over ourselves to attract AI. When they served here most people I know who were headed to India flew LH or EK due to the better flight times, reputation, price and service.
I'm sure we can all reasonably agree that aside from seeing a rather attractive 777 landing and taking off, and AI 777's are pretty attractive there's little to really gain from having them serve here. Jet would be different as they seem to have a strategy and a general clue but I'm really not so sure we should be falling over ourselves to attract AI. When they served here most people I know who were headed to India flew LH or EK due to the better flight times, reputation, price and service.
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Airport Marketing departments will not be using Wikipedia for any of their passenger demand information. 
Very detailed route usage information is available from the CAA and other sources such as airline ticket sales and it costs. LAX_LHR obviously has some access to this info, but the more detailed you want it, the more it costs.
Convincing an airline the demand is there is one thing; airport facilities and politics also make up a big chunk of an airline's decision making.
Very detailed route usage information is available from the CAA and other sources such as airline ticket sales and it costs. LAX_LHR obviously has some access to this info, but the more detailed you want it, the more it costs.
Convincing an airline the demand is there is one thing; airport facilities and politics also make up a big chunk of an airline's decision making.