Aer Lingus - 5
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Why do people keep going on about the amount of aircraft FR have
coming in the summer, why do people think it will be a problem ?
There are many routes that could be started !
PMI - LGW/LTN/MAN
IBZ - LGW/LTN/MAN
ALC - LGW/MAN
AGP - LGW/MAN
ABZ - STN
MLA - STN/LGW/MAN
CDN - STN/LGW/LTN
AGA - LGW
FEZ - STN/LGW
The list could continue !
coming in the summer, why do people think it will be a problem ?
There are many routes that could be started !
PMI - LGW/LTN/MAN
IBZ - LGW/LTN/MAN
ALC - LGW/MAN
AGP - LGW/MAN
ABZ - STN
MLA - STN/LGW/MAN
CDN - STN/LGW/LTN
AGA - LGW
FEZ - STN/LGW
The list could continue !
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I cannot help thinking that LGW will be a risky venture for EI. Take the example of Malaga. Three flights a day on top of what is already operated in a declining market will create low loads for all but especially for EI. They will be competing with three strong brands in that market. ZB is regarded as a popular and reliable carrier with an excellent product. EZY is by far the largest airline in the whole AGP market(all destinations) and BA has done well. On top of that you have Thomsons and the other holiday airlines. EI has little identity in the UK market except for services to Ireland. They will find it very tough at a time they should be conserving cash. I know the VIE market well. No one has ever made a go of it out of LGW. FAO looks very like AGP. My guess is that one summer will have EI in much pain. The following winter will be hell.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I'm a little surprised they didn't offer Gatwick to Belfast and Cork.
Perhaps not so much with Belfast as there's already plenty of service, but Cork could easily support more than Ryanair's one flight a day. In fact, when Easyjet were alone on the route, they were at three a day.
And operating to existing bases would produce certain marketing efficiencies.
Perhaps not so much with Belfast as there's already plenty of service, but Cork could easily support more than Ryanair's one flight a day. In fact, when Easyjet were alone on the route, they were at three a day.
And operating to existing bases would produce certain marketing efficiencies.
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Ok, As you have started - I will add some more for you
PMI - LGW/LTN/MAN
IBZ - LGW/LTN/MAN
ALC - LGW/MAN
AGP - LGW/MAN
ABZ - STN
MLA - STN/LGW/MAN
CDN - STN/LGW/LTN
AGA - LGW
FEZ - STN/LGW
Tenerife South - Bristol
Malta - Bournemouth
Dalaman - Stansted/Liverpool
Lanzarote - Stansted/Liverpool/East Midlands/Prestwick
Cork - Luton
Cuidat Real - Gerona/Stansted
Punta Delgada - Oporto/Madrid/Stansted
Monastir - Stansted/Liverpool
Varna - Stansted
PMI - LGW/LTN/MAN
IBZ - LGW/LTN/MAN
ALC - LGW/MAN
AGP - LGW/MAN
ABZ - STN
MLA - STN/LGW/MAN
CDN - STN/LGW/LTN
AGA - LGW
FEZ - STN/LGW
Tenerife South - Bristol
Malta - Bournemouth
Dalaman - Stansted/Liverpool
Lanzarote - Stansted/Liverpool/East Midlands/Prestwick
Cork - Luton
Cuidat Real - Gerona/Stansted
Punta Delgada - Oporto/Madrid/Stansted
Monastir - Stansted/Liverpool
Varna - Stansted
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Antonov,
I didn't claim to know what either operators DOCs were - this thread is full of those claiming to know which aircraft is the more econmical to operate - impossible to know unless they have access to such data.
Regarding the deal the SAA did with FR - that is public information that was disclosed a couple of years ago through the FOI in Ireland. Basically FR get everything free whilst everyone else subsidised their operation. WIth EI pulling off the SNN-LHR route it dropped the SAA in the mire as they were left with few paying customers. Effectively the SAA levied existing customers to fund FRs new operation that went into direct competition with those operators.
FRs MO is to get others to fund their operation.
I didn't claim to know what either operators DOCs were - this thread is full of those claiming to know which aircraft is the more econmical to operate - impossible to know unless they have access to such data.
Regarding the deal the SAA did with FR - that is public information that was disclosed a couple of years ago through the FOI in Ireland. Basically FR get everything free whilst everyone else subsidised their operation. WIth EI pulling off the SNN-LHR route it dropped the SAA in the mire as they were left with few paying customers. Effectively the SAA levied existing customers to fund FRs new operation that went into direct competition with those operators.
FRs MO is to get others to fund their operation.
Racedo, you claim acquaintance with the numbers but you fail to understand the industry and its annual revenue schedule.
EI has not generated any cash in 2007 not has it done so far in 2008 and paying off those made redundant will also take a sizeable proporttion of cash out of the business.
So do tell where this magic cash is coming from other than raiding the bank account yet again.
racedo do is a FR spin merchant.....deal is FR are in serious trouble and will make straight 200m euro taking over err sorry stealing AL. It aint going to bloody happen.....see this article which just tells it as it is Sunday Business Post | Irish Business News
Then again its quite likely the Accountant said that but lazy journo ignored it.
Skip
Some people wish to resort to personal abuse rather than look at the facts that are there.
My sources are the same as everybody elses as I have no internal FR or EI unpublished data.
Mind you EI groupies should ask how EI board forecasting a dire 2009 5 weeks ago all of a sudden sees sweetness and light in 2009........so were they lying to the employees to get a deal on cost savings ?
Some people wish to resort to personal abuse rather than look at the facts that are there.
My sources are the same as everybody elses as I have no internal FR or EI unpublished data.
Mind you EI groupies should ask how EI board forecasting a dire 2009 5 weeks ago all of a sudden sees sweetness and light in 2009........so were they lying to the employees to get a deal on cost savings ?
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so were they lying to the employees to get a deal on cost savings?
We may never know but even if they were lying, it worked didn't it? Oil prices have been a factor as well, they've been falling in recent weeks which has enabled Aer Lingus to adjust their forecasts to the new lower oil prices and cost savings achieved through new staff conditions. Aer Lingus can make money, it was rising costs that caused damage.
MO'L is now demanding to know what impact axing of the fuel surcharge will have on cash reserves. This coming from the man who has campaigned with monthly out bursts against Aer Lingus to have the surcharge dropped and when they do it he attacks them. So what is it going to be Mr. O'Leary, concerned investor, willing partner or major rival?
We may never know but even if they were lying, it worked didn't it? Oil prices have been a factor as well, they've been falling in recent weeks which has enabled Aer Lingus to adjust their forecasts to the new lower oil prices and cost savings achieved through new staff conditions. Aer Lingus can make money, it was rising costs that caused damage.
MO'L is now demanding to know what impact axing of the fuel surcharge will have on cash reserves. This coming from the man who has campaigned with monthly out bursts against Aer Lingus to have the surcharge dropped and when they do it he attacks them. So what is it going to be Mr. O'Leary, concerned investor, willing partner or major rival?
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what an ego, the board is wrong, management is wrong, the journalists who disagree are wrong or lazy and we're wrong.
we're groupies, they're lazy and management are liars but in racedo's world we give him personal abuse.
Now lean close to the computer and read carefully, we can see through you, you are not portraying the facts accurately, you are partisan and if we want to know O'leary's opinion we need only read the indo.
we're groupies, they're lazy and management are liars but in racedo's world we give him personal abuse.
Now lean close to the computer and read carefully, we can see through you, you are not portraying the facts accurately, you are partisan and if we want to know O'leary's opinion we need only read the indo.
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ditto......racedo is an FR spout. We have seen this media imperialism before. The facts are FR has not a knats chance of taking AL @ 1.40 period. Leo though maybe going trough a period of being bi-polar though..........
Shamrock its pretty usual for management of a targeted company in a takeover to claim everything is getting better and all of a sudden they will make great profits and everything will be ok.
Its a standard tactic to buy time and if it doesn't work management
1.) find other factors to blame
2.) claim targets were always optimistic but market turned
3.) blame the company targeting you for additional cost
4.) make sure their severance package has been updated
If the takeover happens as senior management you can then seek new jobs claiming you had turned the corner and things were getting better and acquiring company got it wrong. Its a pretty standard play book.
Its a standard tactic to buy time and if it doesn't work management
1.) find other factors to blame
2.) claim targets were always optimistic but market turned
3.) blame the company targeting you for additional cost
4.) make sure their severance package has been updated
If the takeover happens as senior management you can then seek new jobs claiming you had turned the corner and things were getting better and acquiring company got it wrong. Its a pretty standard play book.
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Hahaha, this topic is just becoming funny.
Bearcat, in fairness, if I was a EI shareholder with any signficant number of shares I would cosider selling them at €1.40. €940million has been wiped off the value of EI (by share price) since the last RYR take-over bid, and the trend is still further downward.
At the time of the last takeover attempt, RYR offered a premium over the then share price and that raised the shares to their highest values seen since the original share offering. The shares have only tumbled since. As a sahreholder now I would be considering whether the premium now being offered is actually worth selling for, and given the EI outlook, and current business position (which requires the shareholder understanding the mess the business is in) then I suspect the shareprice will drop heavily again if the bid is not succesful.
Bearcat, in fairness, if I was a EI shareholder with any signficant number of shares I would cosider selling them at €1.40. €940million has been wiped off the value of EI (by share price) since the last RYR take-over bid, and the trend is still further downward.
At the time of the last takeover attempt, RYR offered a premium over the then share price and that raised the shares to their highest values seen since the original share offering. The shares have only tumbled since. As a sahreholder now I would be considering whether the premium now being offered is actually worth selling for, and given the EI outlook, and current business position (which requires the shareholder understanding the mess the business is in) then I suspect the shareprice will drop heavily again if the bid is not succesful.
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The problem with the Aer Lingus share price now and for the forseeable future is that in reality there is only about 20% or less of the company's available for trade on the free market. The chairman of Aer Lingus made reference to this only last week. To break it down:
Ryanair own 30%
Government own 25%
ESOT 14%
Pilots/Tailwind/DOB 6%
Now that makes up 75% of the overall company. None of these groups are going to sell their shares, and I include the Government in this in the current proposal. They are playing the game of listening to all sides as a concerned shareholder and will make their decision close to Jan 5th. There won't be any surprises either. You can be assured that Ryanair friendly holding companies have another propotion, perhaps even as much as 10% to sell directly to them as part of the takeover proposed. Now what is left is only 15% to the free market. In this 15% you have some of the various Financial institutions, who are probably willing to hold onto their holding. The company has very few individual investors unlike Ryanair. The company hasn't been able to trade freely since the day of the IPO. MOL has publicly stated that even if he is not successful in the takeover this time, Ryanair have no intention of selling it's holding in the company. This is something Aer Lingus management are persuing through advisors and trying to overturn, based on the information given by Mr Barrington to the Oireachtas committee on transport last week. And to finish, the Ryanair share price is hardly setting the world alight at the moment. No company is immune to the current global financial crisis. I just wonder how the Ryanair share price will react to their year end annual results in March 2009.
Ryanair own 30%
Government own 25%
ESOT 14%
Pilots/Tailwind/DOB 6%
Now that makes up 75% of the overall company. None of these groups are going to sell their shares, and I include the Government in this in the current proposal. They are playing the game of listening to all sides as a concerned shareholder and will make their decision close to Jan 5th. There won't be any surprises either. You can be assured that Ryanair friendly holding companies have another propotion, perhaps even as much as 10% to sell directly to them as part of the takeover proposed. Now what is left is only 15% to the free market. In this 15% you have some of the various Financial institutions, who are probably willing to hold onto their holding. The company has very few individual investors unlike Ryanair. The company hasn't been able to trade freely since the day of the IPO. MOL has publicly stated that even if he is not successful in the takeover this time, Ryanair have no intention of selling it's holding in the company. This is something Aer Lingus management are persuing through advisors and trying to overturn, based on the information given by Mr Barrington to the Oireachtas committee on transport last week. And to finish, the Ryanair share price is hardly setting the world alight at the moment. No company is immune to the current global financial crisis. I just wonder how the Ryanair share price will react to their year end annual results in March 2009.
Last edited by Lord Lardy; 22nd Dec 2008 at 10:27.
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yawn, the FR propoganda machine is up early.
I sometimes think there should be a smiley on here which shows an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.