Aer Lingus - 5
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: right behind you
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i am with you tonyryan.seems to be the only one here who can see what is really going on.what a pack of numpties you are up against though.between fr management,their stooges and the plain uneducated posting here.it is refreshing to read from someone who can see beyond their nose tip.keep posting there big cahunha.would love to get stuck in,but am waiting for that other idiot camel to show and try to shore up the other idiots arguments.what a pack of pillocks!!!what would you expect from "pilots" who allow themselves to be treated as part time workers.as ricky tomlinson would say,"pilots my arse"!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cork
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fly Aer Lingus wherever possible but Mannion has brought the standard way down, so if Ryanair take them over, there won't be a whole lot of difference for us customers.
Putting my Cork Airport hat on, my gut reaction is that Ryanair taking Aer Lingus over would actually be of benefit to us, because Cork Airport's unwillingness to cut a deal with Ryanair appears to have been due to EI's threatened withdrawal of flights (as they subsequently did to SNN). It could really shake things up for once, and would probably put huge pressure on Aer Rianta.
Putting my Cork Airport hat on, my gut reaction is that Ryanair taking Aer Lingus over would actually be of benefit to us, because Cork Airport's unwillingness to cut a deal with Ryanair appears to have been due to EI's threatened withdrawal of flights (as they subsequently did to SNN). It could really shake things up for once, and would probably put huge pressure on Aer Rianta.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last year, the shares were bought at €2.80 (can't remember the exact price, but around there); this time, €1.40. This time, the same charade: offer rejected, EU gets involved and rejects on competition grounds ...
Next year, FR tightens the screws a little more - perhaps starts up the t/a operation and the next offer is €1, then working its way down, until the message gets through. With a weakening economy, EI is going to find the going tough over the next year.
In fairness to DM, while he has made some errors (specifically the DXB route), I can't agree that the standard of travel with EI has gone downhill; indeed, I find them a better carrier on s/h now than they've ever been; nice aircraft, much better value, user friendly technology and good onboard service. Make no mistake, I'd hate to see FR take EI over, but I think that MO'L/FR will just play a waiting game; they may not win this year or next, but they can afford just to turn the screws and wait ...
Next year, FR tightens the screws a little more - perhaps starts up the t/a operation and the next offer is €1, then working its way down, until the message gets through. With a weakening economy, EI is going to find the going tough over the next year.
In fairness to DM, while he has made some errors (specifically the DXB route), I can't agree that the standard of travel with EI has gone downhill; indeed, I find them a better carrier on s/h now than they've ever been; nice aircraft, much better value, user friendly technology and good onboard service. Make no mistake, I'd hate to see FR take EI over, but I think that MO'L/FR will just play a waiting game; they may not win this year or next, but they can afford just to turn the screws and wait ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aer Lingus is a growth dud and it will always be just very incremental growth at best. Public companies are valued based on growth prospects. That is an economic reality. Everyone is emotional about it because they have their livelihoods at stake (understandable). Take the emotion away and look at it from a business perspective. You need growth to survive and increase value in the stock market and Aer Lingus seems to be going nowhere fast... FR has a right to be upset as a major stockholder (beyond their own strategic motives).
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AL have rejected this deal this evening stating that O'Leary & Co. had "grossly undervalued the airline".
not that this is a travesty and will never be allowed to happen, not that this will destroy competition, just pure and simple money.
this is a done deal, AL are now just holding out in the hopes for a better price
not that this is a travesty and will never be allowed to happen, not that this will destroy competition, just pure and simple money.
this is a done deal, AL are now just holding out in the hopes for a better price
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are we really saying the people of Ireland will be better served by this?
When MOL says he will operate EI as a full service subsidiary I will point you to what they did with Buzz. They took control, wound up the airlines citing poor performance and promptly offered only a handful of staff positions with FR.
Carnage gentleman, carnage !
When MOL says he will operate EI as a full service subsidiary I will point you to what they did with Buzz. They took control, wound up the airlines citing poor performance and promptly offered only a handful of staff positions with FR.
Carnage gentleman, carnage !
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If he were to get EI for €750m he would get immediate access to their cash reserves of over €800m
Tonyryan the bank balance would not come with the airline. Ryanair wouldnt be taking over the bank account.
I think that Aer Lingus needs to be part of a bigger consortium or bigger airline grouping to secure its long term position and to be able to withstand the highs and lows of the airline business which is so cyclical. It is unlikely that any airline group eg AirFrance/KLM would look to take over Aer Lingus due to Ryanair's 30% shareholding, which is a disadvantage for Aer Lingus and also says to me that eventually Ryanair will gain control.
MOL sees Aer Lingus as a vehicle for long haul and transatlantic flying. And I am starting to believe this. He has strongly indicated that any long haul aspirations would be fulfilled by a new airline and not Ryanair which will continue to focus on short haul.
Apart from wanting to completely take over Irish aviation, MOL would like to gain control of Aer Lingus so he could lever and dictate to Dublin airport, and probably Cork and Shannon too.
Imagine if Ryanair gained control of Aer Lingus and then AerArann, at which point the merged entity could be all things to all people. Good at niche routes, thin routes, long haul, short haul. The lot.
I also would love to see a Boeing 737 sporting Aer Lingus colours!
EI-BUD
The bank balance would come with the airline but also the liabilities and they are pretty substantial as well.
They had as at 30th June €1,117 M in cash BUT borrowings of €525 M so the €800 is a non starter and if you add in the other Creditors then if its positions isn't that great.
These all in the AL Half Year results.
They had as at 30th June €1,117 M in cash BUT borrowings of €525 M so the €800 is a non starter and if you add in the other Creditors then if its positions isn't that great.
These all in the AL Half Year results.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cork routes
We'll have Cork Beauvais and Cork Gerona but say goodbye to ORK CDG ORK BCN ORK FCO and possibly ORK LHR and ORK AMS. Ryanair won't deal with high cost airports.
Staff at the three state airports will be in for a rude awakening if this goes through.
Staff at the three state airports will be in for a rude awakening if this goes through.
Are we really saying the people of Ireland will be better served by this?
When MOL says he will operate EI as a full service subsidiary I will point you to what they did with Buzz. They took control, wound up the airlines citing poor performance and promptly offered only a handful of staff positions with FR.
When MOL says he will operate EI as a full service subsidiary I will point you to what they did with Buzz. They took control, wound up the airlines citing poor performance and promptly offered only a handful of staff positions with FR.
KLM couldn't wait to dump it which gives you an idea of how bad it was.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also would love to see a Boeing 737 sporting Aer Lingus colours!
Hey racedo, my point wasn't that Buzz was amazing, the routes did OK pre Ryanair as KLM UK from STN but then O'Leary changed the market big time.
Ryanair fan boys like you ignore the point I was making. That FR treats it's staff like scum and won't hesitate to screw you over.
My point is that taking Aer Lingus out of the equation leaves Ireland with Ryanair and nothing else. CityJet being Air France by any other name.
Ryanair won't deal with high cost airports.
Hey racedo, my point wasn't that Buzz was amazing, the routes did OK pre Ryanair as KLM UK from STN but then O'Leary changed the market big time.
Ryanair fan boys like you ignore the point I was making. That FR treats it's staff like scum and won't hesitate to screw you over.
Ryanair fan boys like you ignore the point I was making. That FR treats it's staff like scum and won't hesitate to screw you over.
The idea that somehow staff are worse at FR than elsewhere .......hmmmm Excel / Zoom / Sterling and a long list of other airlines exstaff may tell you differently.
Everybody hates Ryanair - Media because BA and others look after them with free ungrades etc so their failings are quickly forgotten, MEPs because they stick one finger up to them again and again.
Ryanair refuse to be establishment which people can identify with but the bandwagon jumpers chuck abuse on them again and again, many without ever flying them.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cork
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by EI-BUD
Apart from wanting to completely take over Irish aviation, MOL would like to gain control of Aer Lingus so he could lever and dictate to Dublin airport, and probably Cork and Shannon too.
Imagine if Ryanair gained control of Aer Lingus and then AerArann, at which point the merged entity could be all things to all people. Good at niche routes, thin routes, long haul, short haul. The lot.
I also would love to see a Boeing 737 sporting Aer Lingus colours!
Imagine if Ryanair gained control of Aer Lingus and then AerArann, at which point the merged entity could be all things to all people. Good at niche routes, thin routes, long haul, short haul. The lot.
I also would love to see a Boeing 737 sporting Aer Lingus colours!
Can't agree on the 737 though ! As a passenger, I love the comfort of the Airbus.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cork
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ryan2000
We'll have Cork Beauvais and Cork Gerona but say goodbye to ORK CDG ORK BCN ORK FCO and possibly ORK LHR and ORK AMS. Ryanair won't deal with high cost airports.
Staff at the three state airports will be in for a rude awakening if this goes through.
Staff at the three state airports will be in for a rude awakening if this goes through.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cork
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by racedo
The idea that somehow staff are worse at FR than elsewhere .......hmmmm Excel / Zoom / Sterling and a long list of other airlines exstaff may tell you differently.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair want to takeover Aer Lingus
It'll never happen. Hell will freeze over before the unions and employees agree to sell to MOL. On their own they own 15% of Aer Lingus which means MOL will never be able to get the 90% he needs for full control. Also the Irish Government are very unlikely so sell their 25% stake considering they'd only get €188 million for it. Its simply not worth the agro they'd get for the sake of a relatively small amount of money. Also the pilots are very unlikely to sell their stake going by their reaction the last time. Dennis O'Brien is also very unlikely to sell his stake. Those 4 parties (the employees, the Irish Government, the Pilots and Dennis O'Brien) together own 46% of Aer Lingus. That means that MOL can at best get 54% of shares. That is only a simple majority meaning he couldn't make any key decisions such as chaging the fleet or doing anything with the Heathrow slots etc. (decisions which require two thirds support as far as I know)!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Over a barrel
Ryanair seem to have EI over a barrel
- the EU will block any takeover by FR but nobody else will take them over with FR's 30% share.
- so effectively FR are blocking their main Irish competitor from been taken over by any one else.
Can EI survive on it's own?
- They've missed opportunities to expand in Europe, for example in Spain. FR has only in the last few years set up bases here. Before which EI could have established plenty of UK & IRE bucket and spade routes, if not trying a few intra Europe flights.
- EI doesn't seem to have any growth plans and have relied entirely on Ireland as their market which is now in a major recession.
- EI's transatlantic offering is far inferior to that of competitors. Plus the benefits of being a freq flyer are few in comparison to the likes of AA or BA.
- EI don't seem to have target markets, just who exactly are they trying to attract as customers?
- Let's be honest EI will not look after you, if there's a problem your on your own.
Personally I think its a pity EI haven't taken advantage of Europe during the boom years, it would have made them a more diversified company and not just relient on Ireland.
- the EU will block any takeover by FR but nobody else will take them over with FR's 30% share.
- so effectively FR are blocking their main Irish competitor from been taken over by any one else.
Can EI survive on it's own?
- They've missed opportunities to expand in Europe, for example in Spain. FR has only in the last few years set up bases here. Before which EI could have established plenty of UK & IRE bucket and spade routes, if not trying a few intra Europe flights.
- EI doesn't seem to have any growth plans and have relied entirely on Ireland as their market which is now in a major recession.
- EI's transatlantic offering is far inferior to that of competitors. Plus the benefits of being a freq flyer are few in comparison to the likes of AA or BA.
- EI don't seem to have target markets, just who exactly are they trying to attract as customers?
- Let's be honest EI will not look after you, if there's a problem your on your own.
Personally I think its a pity EI haven't taken advantage of Europe during the boom years, it would have made them a more diversified company and not just relient on Ireland.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How's about EI's short haul going over to Ryanair and Aer Lingus becoming
the news Long haul Airline Ryanair want to launch
.
I do think that EI would work best as a Longhaul only Airline managed
by Ryanair.
To the people that talk about JOBS, A job is a job is a job weather you are employed through Ryanair or Aer Lingus or an agency its a job, There are many people in this industry who have lost jobs and many more are on the brink, not only through Airlines going under but cut backs and reshuffles.
People have to get over the MOL thing he is a f
ing good business man and the way this industry is going I for one would feel alot more secure working for him or a company ran by him.
the news Long haul Airline Ryanair want to launch
.I do think that EI would work best as a Longhaul only Airline managed
by Ryanair.
To the people that talk about JOBS, A job is a job is a job weather you are employed through Ryanair or Aer Lingus or an agency its a job, There are many people in this industry who have lost jobs and many more are on the brink, not only through Airlines going under but cut backs and reshuffles.
People have to get over the MOL thing he is a f
ing good business man and the way this industry is going I for one would feel alot more secure working for him or a company ran by him.
Ryanair only need 90% if they were delisting the company and acquiring the other shares. 50%+1 gives you control as you then appoint the board.
Other shareholders could block any decisions that need to be taken again and again and keep going to court at their own expense but all that does would be to cost AL lots of money and diminish the value of a shareholding even further.
Ultimately High Court would decide management have right to run company.
Ryanair is in a great position but AL needs to consider carefully what its future is and its pretty bleak.
ESOT has watched value of their investment collapse and sounds so great to keep saying NO but as you watch that nice Big investment becoming worth less and less especially you may be tempted to go for a deal and many will be.
Pilots shareholding will go as despite their bravado nobody wants to sit on an investment thats going nowhere but down and you have to fund.
DOB only investing as he and MOL both worked for Tony Ryan and one was kept. DOB will have his own legal problems when the tribunals start reporting so him being a white knight is a no chance.
So many people are in the Anybody But Ryanair but what value to anybody else does AL really hold ?
Other shareholders could block any decisions that need to be taken again and again and keep going to court at their own expense but all that does would be to cost AL lots of money and diminish the value of a shareholding even further.
Ultimately High Court would decide management have right to run company.
Ryanair is in a great position but AL needs to consider carefully what its future is and its pretty bleak.
ESOT has watched value of their investment collapse and sounds so great to keep saying NO but as you watch that nice Big investment becoming worth less and less especially you may be tempted to go for a deal and many will be.
Pilots shareholding will go as despite their bravado nobody wants to sit on an investment thats going nowhere but down and you have to fund.
DOB only investing as he and MOL both worked for Tony Ryan and one was kept. DOB will have his own legal problems when the tribunals start reporting so him being a white knight is a no chance.
So many people are in the Anybody But Ryanair but what value to anybody else does AL really hold ?