BELFAST (BHD) - 3
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Parkgate Crescent lies directly under the 22 climbout from the City Airport and could have been subject to wake turbulence from the impressive display of the Airbus.
Hopefully here is a link to an article about wake turbulence illustrating the effects and dangers that can be caused.
Hopefully here is a link to an article about wake turbulence illustrating the effects and dangers that can be caused.
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Vortex Wakes
The Birmingham case may be untypical - Kitts Green lies very close indeed to the 15 threshold, in the order of 1NM (I used to work in Garretts Green - 250-300m to the west of Kitts Grn & the climbout ). Are the Houses very close to the RWY threshold at BHD ?
CAT III
CAT III
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I get the feeling that you seem to keep homing in on this FR is Irish and East Belfast being 'Loyalist' that they have something against FR. I think that since their arrival MOL with the arrogance that he has shown towards the residents has certainly not placed him on their love list
I actually dont mind that there will be an extention or not. I have had divided feelings in the past but at this point dont actually care.
It is a matter of opinion as to which aircraft are most noisy. The 738s generally are much younger and modern (not suggesting that younger means quiter) and many of the other types eg 320/321/319 are alot older and not as up to date, also I think the 195 is just as noisy as the 738.
As stated before it must not be pleasant for the locals to have planes over head so frequently, but at this stage there still is no facts being stated as to what plane it was and when specifically this happened at the persons house under the flight path. Does anyone know the anwer?
EI-BUD
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EI,
As much as I dont want to get drawn into your little arguement, please get your facts right with regards to the modern aircraft, SOME of bmi's aircraft many not be as young as SOME of FR's 73NG's but they are far more modern with regards to aviation technology.
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Keepitlit
As much as I dont want to get drawn into your little arguement, please get your facts right with regards to the modern aircraft, SOME of bmi's aircraft many not be as young as SOME of FR's 73NG's but they are far more modern with regards to aviation technology.
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Keepitlit
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Just an observation but the press reported that the streets seemed to be filled with people sunbathing, relaxing and children playing but absolutely no one was able to identify what type of plane flew over.
On the subject of noisy planes - did the Spotlight programme last year not identify and E195 as the noisiest aircraft at BHD?
Anyway noise is dependant on so many factors including climactic conditions, load, engine thrust, etc and even the type of noise that it is niave at best to just say 1 a/c is noisier than another.
On the subject of noisy planes - did the Spotlight programme last year not identify and E195 as the noisiest aircraft at BHD?
Anyway noise is dependant on so many factors including climactic conditions, load, engine thrust, etc and even the type of noise that it is niave at best to just say 1 a/c is noisier than another.
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dont know if its already been posted but the EI BFS-TFS route will depart at 1400, as apposed to the first posted time of 1230, this is due to the fact its starting while all the other routes are still running... so there will be a 4th EI aircraft visiting BFS on certain days running a W pattern, not sure if it will nightstop or not...
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Globespan 73G last Wednesday
Folks, saw a 73G of Globespan arrive last Wed at about 1630 on 25, then turn off onto 17 and scoot off out of site. Departed again about 1730. Military charter perhaps?
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anything that goes over to the RAF side is either a military charter / VIP such as presidental and aircraft that need to do full engine runs or the AN-124 as theres no suitable stands they can give it while commerical flights are coming in an dout.. thats about it i think?
3x harriers, the islander and 2 helicopters doing flybys today, was a good show
3x harriers, the islander and 2 helicopters doing flybys today, was a good show
Last edited by tigger2k8; 20th Sep 2009 at 14:48.
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Community Minded
The 737's are the 'noisiest' but maybe this is because there is no need for them to be coming in and out of the city. There would appear to be a more suitable stretch of tarmac for the type - both aircraft and passengers out in the countryside.
The growth of city was seen by many local residents as in the best interest of NI plc. City Centre airport with city centre service for business flights.
Not £1 specials with the requirement to queue 40 minutes to drop your bags off before a further 30 minute queue to go through security and then be called for your flight to queue another 20 minutes before boarding.
If as a passenger you're prepared to put up with this then I think, albeit as a resident, that you should be prepared to travel the extra 20 miles to the tarmac in the countryside because its become really crap to live close to the airport since the arrival of the tractors.
In fact I hear the bus service to Dublin Airport is excellent and time wise might even be quicker!!
If MOL has a problem with the other airports then that is his problem.
If however the decision makers decide that the runway can be extended but only if all operators must provide a 20 minute check in like a proper city centre airport should, that indicates that the location of the airport is what attracts them, then it will become my problem.
The growth of city was seen by many local residents as in the best interest of NI plc. City Centre airport with city centre service for business flights.
Not £1 specials with the requirement to queue 40 minutes to drop your bags off before a further 30 minute queue to go through security and then be called for your flight to queue another 20 minutes before boarding.
If as a passenger you're prepared to put up with this then I think, albeit as a resident, that you should be prepared to travel the extra 20 miles to the tarmac in the countryside because its become really crap to live close to the airport since the arrival of the tractors.
In fact I hear the bus service to Dublin Airport is excellent and time wise might even be quicker!!
If MOL has a problem with the other airports then that is his problem.
If however the decision makers decide that the runway can be extended but only if all operators must provide a 20 minute check in like a proper city centre airport should, that indicates that the location of the airport is what attracts them, then it will become my problem.
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Tallinnman
Do you mind me asking how long you hav lived near BHD. While I am a supporter of the airport I have some sympathy for 'older' residents who have lived in the Sydenham area all of their lives. However I have no sympathy for someone who has bought a house (or trendy apartment) near the airport in the last 15-20 years. When these people bought their property did they not notice the airport was there or the fact that it has grown every year almost without fail for the last 25.
Also good to know that BFS has no check-in or security queues and that the good people of Templepatrick or Crumlin are somehow 'less important' because they are ' in the country'
Finally if you've ever watched the number of bags that go into the hold of an FR a/c (not many) then you would agree that a 20min Q for a Ryanair bag drop is unheard of.
Do you mind me asking how long you hav lived near BHD. While I am a supporter of the airport I have some sympathy for 'older' residents who have lived in the Sydenham area all of their lives. However I have no sympathy for someone who has bought a house (or trendy apartment) near the airport in the last 15-20 years. When these people bought their property did they not notice the airport was there or the fact that it has grown every year almost without fail for the last 25.
Also good to know that BFS has no check-in or security queues and that the good people of Templepatrick or Crumlin are somehow 'less important' because they are ' in the country'
Finally if you've ever watched the number of bags that go into the hold of an FR a/c (not many) then you would agree that a 20min Q for a Ryanair bag drop is unheard of.
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Rinty
The house was bought off plan back in 1966 by my parents - cost £750 from memory - mind you I wish the mortgage was still £750!
The noisiest aircraft then was either the 125-400 or Canberra however I watched them with pleasure through my bedroom window.
Nor is the issue about the airport being there, I use it regularly, work in the aviation business and think it is a great asset to Belfast despite the ridiculous queues and hassles of late.
It is about what type of traffic the airport should be attracting or be allowed to attract, given its noise sensitive location for many residents.
When scheduled services commenced or restarted in the 80's many were operated by 360's built in Belfast and it was welcomed by most local people I knew – some in our street got jobs there myself included.
However 25-30 years later I have sympathy for all residents impacted by the increasing noise irrespective of how long their tenure or how trendy their abode is.
Lives, people's property and environment are being severely impacted by the noxious footprint of 'low cost' carriers and for whose benefit?
Can anybody give a rational reason for the proposed expansion or why this traffic is suited to BHD rather than BFS?
I appreciate that local airfares are overpriced and competition is incredibly welcome but again I'm sorry BHD is not the place for this traffic.
If there are noise issues for residents in Templepatrick (5 miles out) and Crumlin (1 mile out – is that runway used?) then I feel they should be addressed to their satisfaction.
Nobody should have to endure the discomfort now being felt in the communities close to BHD.
Finally if you have ever stood and watched people repacking their suitcases and hand luggage, in some cases ending up wearing most of the contents to make the limit/restriction of the day then yes it is another 20 minutes at baggage drop. Not sure this happens in legitimate City Centre airports such as Bromma or London City.
The house was bought off plan back in 1966 by my parents - cost £750 from memory - mind you I wish the mortgage was still £750!
The noisiest aircraft then was either the 125-400 or Canberra however I watched them with pleasure through my bedroom window.
Nor is the issue about the airport being there, I use it regularly, work in the aviation business and think it is a great asset to Belfast despite the ridiculous queues and hassles of late.
It is about what type of traffic the airport should be attracting or be allowed to attract, given its noise sensitive location for many residents.
When scheduled services commenced or restarted in the 80's many were operated by 360's built in Belfast and it was welcomed by most local people I knew – some in our street got jobs there myself included.
However 25-30 years later I have sympathy for all residents impacted by the increasing noise irrespective of how long their tenure or how trendy their abode is.
Lives, people's property and environment are being severely impacted by the noxious footprint of 'low cost' carriers and for whose benefit?
Can anybody give a rational reason for the proposed expansion or why this traffic is suited to BHD rather than BFS?
I appreciate that local airfares are overpriced and competition is incredibly welcome but again I'm sorry BHD is not the place for this traffic.
If there are noise issues for residents in Templepatrick (5 miles out) and Crumlin (1 mile out – is that runway used?) then I feel they should be addressed to their satisfaction.
Nobody should have to endure the discomfort now being felt in the communities close to BHD.
Finally if you have ever stood and watched people repacking their suitcases and hand luggage, in some cases ending up wearing most of the contents to make the limit/restriction of the day then yes it is another 20 minutes at baggage drop. Not sure this happens in legitimate City Centre airports such as Bromma or London City.
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Tallinnman
Dont want to personalise the issue and yes, in your case, I can sympathise. In 1966 the propspect of BHD growing to its current size was probably unimaginable. However there has been an explosion of new builds in the Sydenham area in recent years and I have no more sympathy for these people than I would for someone who buys a house beside a railway line and in then annoyed by the noise of trains.
The fact remains that BHD and BFS are private business (and not public services as some people think) and to limit growth at one and favour the other is no different than stopping Tesco building a store because there is a perfectly good sainsburys down the road. perhaps a more relevant comparision may be limiting growth of Belfast port because Larne has spare capacity.
maybe I picked it up wrong but 'noxious footprint' implies pollution (other than noise). It has repeatedly been shown, most recently in runway EIA that the air pollution from the airport is negligible and certainly less than the traffic on the closer Sydenham bypass.
the fact remains that BHD is one of, if not, the most strictly regulated airports in Europe. That protection limits the total number of flights and opening hours. few people living near an airport know that they wont be wakened before 6:30 - and certainly not those near the aforementioned towns who hear cargo and charter flights through the night.
Your final coment about baggage limits is frankly ridiculous. Yes, I have seen people putting on clothes to reduce baggage weight. But this now happens with all airlines and to suggest that its particular to BHD and Ryanair is nonsense. And to be blunt if people have the capabilty to own a credit card and 'negotiate' Ryanairs website then they should be also be able to weight their bags on their bathroom scales before they leave home.
Dont want to personalise the issue and yes, in your case, I can sympathise. In 1966 the propspect of BHD growing to its current size was probably unimaginable. However there has been an explosion of new builds in the Sydenham area in recent years and I have no more sympathy for these people than I would for someone who buys a house beside a railway line and in then annoyed by the noise of trains.
The fact remains that BHD and BFS are private business (and not public services as some people think) and to limit growth at one and favour the other is no different than stopping Tesco building a store because there is a perfectly good sainsburys down the road. perhaps a more relevant comparision may be limiting growth of Belfast port because Larne has spare capacity.
maybe I picked it up wrong but 'noxious footprint' implies pollution (other than noise). It has repeatedly been shown, most recently in runway EIA that the air pollution from the airport is negligible and certainly less than the traffic on the closer Sydenham bypass.
the fact remains that BHD is one of, if not, the most strictly regulated airports in Europe. That protection limits the total number of flights and opening hours. few people living near an airport know that they wont be wakened before 6:30 - and certainly not those near the aforementioned towns who hear cargo and charter flights through the night.
Your final coment about baggage limits is frankly ridiculous. Yes, I have seen people putting on clothes to reduce baggage weight. But this now happens with all airlines and to suggest that its particular to BHD and Ryanair is nonsense. And to be blunt if people have the capabilty to own a credit card and 'negotiate' Ryanairs website then they should be also be able to weight their bags on their bathroom scales before they leave home.
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Can anybody give a rational reason for the proposed expansion or why this traffic is suited to BHD rather than BFS?
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the other is no different than stopping Tesco building a store because there is a perfectly good sainsburys down the road.
You have to get planning permission. Which will look at several issues with relation to neighbours to the site, traffic issues demand for another shop issues, environmental issues etc.
What planet do you live on!!!. Oh right the John Lewis store - like its still not built!!!!!!
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Ferrovial sold BHD almost a year ago. easy might have something to say about FR coming up the road to BFS. Another overly simplistic view of life
I’ve no doubt Easyjet would have something to say about it. That doesn’t change the fact that Ryanair would move to BFS tomorrow if TBI made them a more attractive offer. The crucial word in this statement is ‘if’, in reality it’s not likely to happen anytime soon anyway.
Also just for reference, my comment was made slightly tongue-in-cheek with regards to two competing airports and the question ‘Can anybody give a rational reason for the proposed expansion or why this traffic is suited to BHD rather than BFS?’ If they were both owned by the state (like the Bromma example), I’d understand tallinnman’s arguments completely.
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Based & tallinnman - apologies if I offended either with yesterdays robust tirade - got a bit carried away.
gate 22 - your views are very well documented as the leading member of the Aldergrove Appreciation Society. The point about shopping centers was meant as an example. The point being that competition is not stiffled because there is capacity at another location. The ports example is more relevant.
Nevertheless Lisburn - Sainsburys & Tesco 1 1/2 miles apart, Forestside 1/2 mile apart, Craigavon - inside same shopping centre. Announcement this week of new Sainsburys in Newtownards close to tesco. All recent example of where planners decided that competition (between private companies) should not be stifled because the sitting incumbent didnt like it.
Regarding the John Lewis store it has not been built purely due to the Belfast lobby afraid of competition. If it is not passed at public enquiry it sends out a clear message that only commercial development is allowed if there is no impact on the belfast lobby. ironic in the context of discussion about expansion of a 'Belfast' airport.
gate 22 - your views are very well documented as the leading member of the Aldergrove Appreciation Society. The point about shopping centers was meant as an example. The point being that competition is not stiffled because there is capacity at another location. The ports example is more relevant.
Nevertheless Lisburn - Sainsburys & Tesco 1 1/2 miles apart, Forestside 1/2 mile apart, Craigavon - inside same shopping centre. Announcement this week of new Sainsburys in Newtownards close to tesco. All recent example of where planners decided that competition (between private companies) should not be stifled because the sitting incumbent didnt like it.
Regarding the John Lewis store it has not been built purely due to the Belfast lobby afraid of competition. If it is not passed at public enquiry it sends out a clear message that only commercial development is allowed if there is no impact on the belfast lobby. ironic in the context of discussion about expansion of a 'Belfast' airport.
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Competition is generally a great ally for consumers and for ROUTES like Belfast-London it works quite well but it doesn't work at all on the marginal routes. I personally do not care for Ryanair and I believe they will do all they can to spoil things for other airlines, that can be considered normal competitive business in many cases but it stifles consumer choice in this case.
Tescos and Sainsburys may be two supermarkets but they have (I guess) 30 or more outlets spread over the province providing lots of choice for the consumer and plenty of opportunity for either of them to make profit - not the same for airports/airlines
BHD and BFS (and LDY) as I have said before needs managed, there is absolutely no need for BHD to offer long haul services and the same applies to BFS and certain short haul routes (what used to be called commuter routes) but there is a lot of common ground. I am not a big fan of government but I feel that our government should have a role to play in this, as much as an adjudicator as anything else (God help us with our politicians).
With the right controls all airports can co-exist successfully/profitably and the consumer can get as good a deal as is possible in this relatively small market!
Tescos and Sainsburys may be two supermarkets but they have (I guess) 30 or more outlets spread over the province providing lots of choice for the consumer and plenty of opportunity for either of them to make profit - not the same for airports/airlines
BHD and BFS (and LDY) as I have said before needs managed, there is absolutely no need for BHD to offer long haul services and the same applies to BFS and certain short haul routes (what used to be called commuter routes) but there is a lot of common ground. I am not a big fan of government but I feel that our government should have a role to play in this, as much as an adjudicator as anything else (God help us with our politicians).
With the right controls all airports can co-exist successfully/profitably and the consumer can get as good a deal as is possible in this relatively small market!