BELFAST (BHD) - 3
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Competition is generally a great ally for consumers and for ROUTES like Belfast-London it works quite well but it doesn't work at all on the marginal routes. I personally do not care for Ryanair and I believe they will do all they can to spoil things for other airlines, that can be considered normal competitive business in many cases but it stifles consumer choice in this case.
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I see for S10, EI has retimed the first flight to 7.15 ex Bfs, arrive Lhr 08.45. They are getting closer to Bd with their timing for the first flight out. I wonder what the delay is in announcing the 4th flight they have mentioned several times would be announced by the end of August? Is the full S10 programme on sale yet?
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only recent think i have heard which is again a rumor... is have..:
0630, 0720,1300 (approx) and 1725 BFS-LHR depatures, but its anyone guess as to wether or not the 0630 happens, i honestly cant see the demand for an 0630 and 0720 during winter..
as for the S10 schedule, i doubt it will be final until a month before, since EI have a new boss...
also the work on stands 12-15 is nearing completion.. although they aren't installing the equipment until 9,10,11 are also prepped... lighting and stand numerals being put in..... the sooner its done the better, as the contractors dont seem to understand that they cant park in the middle of stands and also that driving/walking behind planes during pushback isnt a good idea... best of all is that operations is letting them get away with it.. especially parking vehicles on a stand that an aircraft is coming on to.. they've even marshalled aircraft onto stand with vans sitting 2m away from the stop symbol... and it doesnt take an expert to figure out that it could be a disaster if an aircrafts brakes failed as it comes onto stand
0630, 0720,1300 (approx) and 1725 BFS-LHR depatures, but its anyone guess as to wether or not the 0630 happens, i honestly cant see the demand for an 0630 and 0720 during winter..
as for the S10 schedule, i doubt it will be final until a month before, since EI have a new boss...
also the work on stands 12-15 is nearing completion.. although they aren't installing the equipment until 9,10,11 are also prepped... lighting and stand numerals being put in..... the sooner its done the better, as the contractors dont seem to understand that they cant park in the middle of stands and also that driving/walking behind planes during pushback isnt a good idea... best of all is that operations is letting them get away with it.. especially parking vehicles on a stand that an aircraft is coming on to.. they've even marshalled aircraft onto stand with vans sitting 2m away from the stop symbol... and it doesnt take an expert to figure out that it could be a disaster if an aircrafts brakes failed as it comes onto stand
Last edited by tigger2k8; 1st Oct 2009 at 11:10.
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Don't think you'll see a 4th LHR rotation from EI anytime soon. Remember the possibility of this was mooted during the blaze of publicity from EI when the Civil Service contract was awarded. What they neglected to say initially was that the contract was being shared with BMI and Flybe.
With BMI dropping a rotation to BHD from the end of the month, it is clear that there is already too much capacity between Belfast and LHR and an extra rotation from EI would therefore be pointless.
With BMI dropping a rotation to BHD from the end of the month, it is clear that there is already too much capacity between Belfast and LHR and an extra rotation from EI would therefore be pointless.
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well stand 24 is finally being fixed (closed due to subcidence ((spelling?)))... stand 18 (one of the best in the airport) has been occupied by an EZY 737 for the last 2 days due to a fuel leak, may or may not be there tomorrow... im surprised it hasnt been towed to 9,10 or 11
the TCX on stand 22 seems to be getting a good look through (engines open, APU open, both cargo hold doors open..) problem or just an inspection?
the TCX on stand 22 seems to be getting a good look through (engines open, APU open, both cargo hold doors open..) problem or just an inspection?
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Runway Public Inquiry?
Fresh doubts over City Airport runway extension - Local & National, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
I understand how noise and air polution could have a detrimental effect on health and so is relevant to the EHSSB but is commenting on mud and birds and rescue services within the remit of the Eastern Health and Social Services Board?
Anyway, there certainly does not appear to be consensus in Belfast on the desireability of this runway extension. A decision is due to be made in the next few weeks about whether to hold a public inquiry:
Environment versus economics... arguments in the runway debate - Local & National, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
My feeling is that it will eventually get the go ahead (look at the moveable flight cap) but what future is there for BHD if it doesn't get the runway extension?
“The inlet adjacent to Victoria Park (old timber ponds) contains very soft estuarine mud which would make rescue particularly difficult,” he said. “Similarly the sand on Holywood bank is very soft and again would be problematic for any rescue.”
Anyway, there certainly does not appear to be consensus in Belfast on the desireability of this runway extension. A decision is due to be made in the next few weeks about whether to hold a public inquiry:
Environment versus economics... arguments in the runway debate - Local & National, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
My feeling is that it will eventually get the go ahead (look at the moveable flight cap) but what future is there for BHD if it doesn't get the runway extension?
Last edited by Amelia Earhart; 3rd Oct 2009 at 18:58. Reason: addition information
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The future for BHD could be pretty bleak if the runway extension does not go ahead. FR will almost certainly walk away (something MOL has hinted at in the past). The current turmoil surrounding BMI means that the future of the LHR is not necessarily secure. If it disappears, then it would basically leave Flybe who have not shown any desire recently to expand further at BHD.
To survive BHD really needs the extension. If it doesn't that will no doubt please the pro BFS brigade who probably assume that BHD passengers would use them instead. This however may not necessarily happen as the improved surface links with Dublin might mean that passengers will flock south instead of going to BFS.
To survive BHD really needs the extension. If it doesn't that will no doubt please the pro BFS brigade who probably assume that BHD passengers would use them instead. This however may not necessarily happen as the improved surface links with Dublin might mean that passengers will flock south instead of going to BFS.
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ALLMCC
I dont think that no runway extention means no expansion, we may not see furtheraway destinations such as Barcelona, Malaga etc, but there is nothing stopping Flybe doing many destinations in France, Holland, Germany other UK destinations with 195.
They need to get an increase in the allowable number of movements/passengers (cant remember what the restrictions/limits are on this?)
Whatever happens (re Extention or no extention), it would seem that whole topic will be further protracted. I cant see Ryanair giving up on the Belfast market, that question is would they look at a move to BFS. Would Abertis/Tbi not look to lever Easyjet (in the face of the dispite with LTN airport ) in LTN by threatening to attract Ryanair from BHD to BFS?
What does anyone else think?
I dont think that no runway extention means no expansion, we may not see furtheraway destinations such as Barcelona, Malaga etc, but there is nothing stopping Flybe doing many destinations in France, Holland, Germany other UK destinations with 195.
They need to get an increase in the allowable number of movements/passengers (cant remember what the restrictions/limits are on this?)
Whatever happens (re Extention or no extention), it would seem that whole topic will be further protracted. I cant see Ryanair giving up on the Belfast market, that question is would they look at a move to BFS. Would Abertis/Tbi not look to lever Easyjet (in the face of the dispite with LTN airport ) in LTN by threatening to attract Ryanair from BHD to BFS?
What does anyone else think?
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would Ryanair look at the possibility of keeping domestic routes at BHD and european from BFS? not only would it keep business at BHD, but it would hopefully add a few more routes from BFS and if they give the contract to Aviance it would make the future look bright for them 
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This corresponence from EHSSB is riddled with inaccuracies and makes me wonder whether the 'Tele' has any reponsibility to verify the authenticity of what it prints.
In the recent roof slate incident they printed a resident quoting that he was regularly wakened at 06:00am by aircraft. This is patently a lie nevertheless they printed it anyway and perpetuated the myth.
Anyway regarding the EHSSB - did they do any research or just as the loacl residents groups what they thought?
EG
Increased use of the runway would degrade the quality of life of people living under the flightpath.
Limit of 48,000 ATM's with or wothout extension so no increased use due to extendion
e A longer runway could hamper rescue services in the event of an emergency landing.
How - the extenion allows for the provision of full RESA which can only improve safety
e There would be an increased risk of bird strikes posed by a nearby wildlife sanctuary.
RSPB dont seem to think so - they may know more about birds than EHSSB
e The close proximity to major and dense housing areas would pose new safety risks.
A/c would be higher over east Belfast due to displaced threshold - same number of planes so what are the increased safety risks?
e The airport could run foul of future EU noise and air quality regulations.
I guess that idiotic statement could apply to any airport in the world.
As for the COMA site -its in a totally unpopulated area and isnt much larger that fuel farms around large international airports all over the world.
Makes me wonder why the EHSSB feel compelled to write about some thing that they obviously know nothing about - wonder if there is some sort of hidden aganda? I'll refrain from making theories from EHSSB to Health minister to east belfast votes -oops.
In the recent roof slate incident they printed a resident quoting that he was regularly wakened at 06:00am by aircraft. This is patently a lie nevertheless they printed it anyway and perpetuated the myth.
Anyway regarding the EHSSB - did they do any research or just as the loacl residents groups what they thought?
EG
Increased use of the runway would degrade the quality of life of people living under the flightpath.
Limit of 48,000 ATM's with or wothout extension so no increased use due to extendion
e A longer runway could hamper rescue services in the event of an emergency landing.
How - the extenion allows for the provision of full RESA which can only improve safety
e There would be an increased risk of bird strikes posed by a nearby wildlife sanctuary.
RSPB dont seem to think so - they may know more about birds than EHSSB
e The close proximity to major and dense housing areas would pose new safety risks.
A/c would be higher over east Belfast due to displaced threshold - same number of planes so what are the increased safety risks?
e The airport could run foul of future EU noise and air quality regulations.
I guess that idiotic statement could apply to any airport in the world.
As for the COMA site -its in a totally unpopulated area and isnt much larger that fuel farms around large international airports all over the world.
Makes me wonder why the EHSSB feel compelled to write about some thing that they obviously know nothing about - wonder if there is some sort of hidden aganda? I'll refrain from making theories from EHSSB to Health minister to east belfast votes -oops.
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This however may not necessarily happen as the improved surface links with Dublin might mean that passengers will flock south instead of going to BFS.
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Rinty,
Obviously you are being objective on this report and are well informed on all the issues, as for the EHSSB they, in your opinion, are a bunch of no brainers and should be ignored, as the planners originally did.
Obviously you are being objective on this report and are well informed on all the issues, as for the EHSSB they, in your opinion, are a bunch of no brainers and should be ignored, as the planners originally did.
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e There would be an increased risk of bird strikes posed by a nearby wildlife sanctuary.
RSPB dont seem to think so - they may know more about birds than EHSSB
RSPB dont seem to think so - they may know more about birds than EHSSB
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EI-BUD,
I hope FR do not move up the road, they are nothing but trouble. Hopefully the runway extension will be refused without the need for a public inquiry as nothing new can be added to it and its a waste of money. The planners have plenty of grounds for refusal and there would be a grunt or two from MOL and BHD but there is a ceiling which clearly has been reached. If it goes the otherway, where will it end? I honestly believe that the locals will take to the streets, and they will be listened to then.
BFS don't need FR however they can use the threat to shaken up a few sleeping operators there to expand or else. I think that FR could flee up to Londonderry and start an operation there, its not that far from Belfast really, personally I would choose LDY over Dublin any day if flying. Okay the roads not the best but its a hell of alot quicker than getting to Dub.
I hope FR do not move up the road, they are nothing but trouble. Hopefully the runway extension will be refused without the need for a public inquiry as nothing new can be added to it and its a waste of money. The planners have plenty of grounds for refusal and there would be a grunt or two from MOL and BHD but there is a ceiling which clearly has been reached. If it goes the otherway, where will it end? I honestly believe that the locals will take to the streets, and they will be listened to then.
BFS don't need FR however they can use the threat to shaken up a few sleeping operators there to expand or else. I think that FR could flee up to Londonderry and start an operation there, its not that far from Belfast really, personally I would choose LDY over Dublin any day if flying. Okay the roads not the best but its a hell of alot quicker than getting to Dub.
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Gate 22.
Just find it strange that EHSSB are expressing opinions on subjects without full consideration of the facts that I feel are not within their remit.
Also never claimed to be objective on this case. I use both airport regularly depending on price and timing of flights etc (that was the point that I was agreeing on).
If there was a continuous theme 'getting stuck into BFS' I would be the first to stick my oar in there as well. Incidently great airport as well - better selection of shops and car parking and I cant see any difference in flight punctuality or airline related issues.
No hidden info regarding RSPB - just interpreted public quiet as lack of concern. perhaps I shouldnt jump to conclusions (like EHSSB)
Just find it strange that EHSSB are expressing opinions on subjects without full consideration of the facts that I feel are not within their remit.
Also never claimed to be objective on this case. I use both airport regularly depending on price and timing of flights etc (that was the point that I was agreeing on).
If there was a continuous theme 'getting stuck into BFS' I would be the first to stick my oar in there as well. Incidently great airport as well - better selection of shops and car parking and I cant see any difference in flight punctuality or airline related issues.
No hidden info regarding RSPB - just interpreted public quiet as lack of concern. perhaps I shouldnt jump to conclusions (like EHSSB)
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I have no axe to grind either way about this proposed runway extension at BHD, but I would make a few points as follows:-
1. The world will not end if it does happen. The good people of East Belfast and North Down will be as safe as they are now, and likely not even notice any difference in noise or quality of life.
2. Is it really necessary? What will NI plc gain by having this extension? Competition maybe...but we have that already (witness EI and EZY chasing the same passengers on certain routes, then pulling off those same routes!). And it will only be mid-haul routes...BHD can cope with UK routes as is!
3. It does seem that this is an effort to keep FR on board. If BHD think that makes commercial sense, then so be it. But I reckon thats making a pact with the devil...
4. Most mid-haul routes from NI cannot suppoort more than one operator (see 2 above). So if FR get their extension, we may see price wars that ultimately drive one operator off any given route...probably with FR surviving...and then what happens? We pay for check-in etc...competition doesn't really benefit.
5. Stormont needs to take a strategic view. In my view, that should be based on BHD continuing to provide UK regional services, with fast access to the city for business users. Mid-haul / long-haul should stay at BFS. This works...leave competition to the airlines. The airports should be viewed as a piece of national infrastructure, with coherent planning across them.
1. The world will not end if it does happen. The good people of East Belfast and North Down will be as safe as they are now, and likely not even notice any difference in noise or quality of life.
2. Is it really necessary? What will NI plc gain by having this extension? Competition maybe...but we have that already (witness EI and EZY chasing the same passengers on certain routes, then pulling off those same routes!). And it will only be mid-haul routes...BHD can cope with UK routes as is!
3. It does seem that this is an effort to keep FR on board. If BHD think that makes commercial sense, then so be it. But I reckon thats making a pact with the devil...
4. Most mid-haul routes from NI cannot suppoort more than one operator (see 2 above). So if FR get their extension, we may see price wars that ultimately drive one operator off any given route...probably with FR surviving...and then what happens? We pay for check-in etc...competition doesn't really benefit.
5. Stormont needs to take a strategic view. In my view, that should be based on BHD continuing to provide UK regional services, with fast access to the city for business users. Mid-haul / long-haul should stay at BFS. This works...leave competition to the airlines. The airports should be viewed as a piece of national infrastructure, with coherent planning across them.
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gate22 I cant see your point, I reckon that BFS have not been forthcoming with a strong offer on charges! Up to now I can see that TBI/Abertis wouldnt want to appease Ryanair at the detriment to there business with Easyjet (both LTN and BFS).
However, I am not sure that Ryanair would get the lions share of passengers on a BFS STN route. Today Easyjet have done quite well at maintaining the numbers on the route.
When FR came to the City airport the year on year growth rate was negative (-2%) if I can remember correctly, no doubt that fact coupled with Ryanairs desire to join Aer Lingus in the market meant that the City airport gave a strong offer. In addition, Air Berlin were exiting the STN route so BHD would have seen any Ryanair business as incremental rather than canibalising the existing business.
However, there is alot of focus on the Aer Lingus and Bmi numbers on the respective LHR routes from Belfast. I am not sure to what extent Aer Lingus are taking bmi passengers, I think that the competition at BFS draws Easyjet passengers (mostly) and at the City airport much of Bmi's loss of traffic are down to Ryanair.
Not sure what your opinion on that is.
I would agree with the comment about LDY and Ryanair setting up there (base). It seems that the schedule has been scrappy in that the timings are bizarre, in summer the LTN and STN flights were early and no attempt to make it morning and evening etc, and cut backs. A based unit would put a focus on the London Market and hopefully see a strong schedule that could satisfy the day return passenger.
While I can forsee a LDY base, I just cant see Ryanair exiting the Belfast market any time soon....
However, I am not sure that Ryanair would get the lions share of passengers on a BFS STN route. Today Easyjet have done quite well at maintaining the numbers on the route.
When FR came to the City airport the year on year growth rate was negative (-2%) if I can remember correctly, no doubt that fact coupled with Ryanairs desire to join Aer Lingus in the market meant that the City airport gave a strong offer. In addition, Air Berlin were exiting the STN route so BHD would have seen any Ryanair business as incremental rather than canibalising the existing business.
However, there is alot of focus on the Aer Lingus and Bmi numbers on the respective LHR routes from Belfast. I am not sure to what extent Aer Lingus are taking bmi passengers, I think that the competition at BFS draws Easyjet passengers (mostly) and at the City airport much of Bmi's loss of traffic are down to Ryanair.
Not sure what your opinion on that is.
I would agree with the comment about LDY and Ryanair setting up there (base). It seems that the schedule has been scrappy in that the timings are bizarre, in summer the LTN and STN flights were early and no attempt to make it morning and evening etc, and cut backs. A based unit would put a focus on the London Market and hopefully see a strong schedule that could satisfy the day return passenger.
While I can forsee a LDY base, I just cant see Ryanair exiting the Belfast market any time soon....
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I do have an axe to grind on this one...
An FR exit would only be good for NI's airline customers in my mind. Their prices are never as cheap as they attest to, and in terms of service...
An FR exit would only be good for NI's airline customers in my mind. Their prices are never as cheap as they attest to, and in terms of service...