SHANNON
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EI at SNN
The Christmas shoppers will probably keep them going for another winter but they'll keep coming back looking for cost cuts and Hello Money which is understandable. They are probably banking on either DL or CO withdrawing which will reduce capacity and increase yields. Can't see Shannon sustaining 3 airlines on New York, even the likes of BHX hasn't that capacity.
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Shannon/London Market February
February being the first full month of no Heathrow/Shannon route the information was interesting overall in the market.
Same month last year SNNLHR was 21899 this year 0.
Note ORK/LHR was up 5880 on the same month last year. If one was to assume some of these were would be SNNLHR pax?
So elsewhere
SNN/STN was up 5453
SNN/LGW was up 4129
SNN/LTN was up 5549
Total up :15131
So the SNN-London market overall in Feb was down 6768
But when we take into account the number of pax on ORKLHR up 5880 and the fact that Kerry/London is up over 2000 on the month and Galway is up too, it would seem at first glance that as many passengers are going to London from the area.
Belfast Heathrow for the same month carried 17520 so overal it would seem that Aer Lingus carried more passengers on London flights as they did last year!
Same month last year SNNLHR was 21899 this year 0.
Note ORK/LHR was up 5880 on the same month last year. If one was to assume some of these were would be SNNLHR pax?
So elsewhere
SNN/STN was up 5453
SNN/LGW was up 4129
SNN/LTN was up 5549
Total up :15131
So the SNN-London market overall in Feb was down 6768
But when we take into account the number of pax on ORKLHR up 5880 and the fact that Kerry/London is up over 2000 on the month and Galway is up too, it would seem at first glance that as many passengers are going to London from the area.
Belfast Heathrow for the same month carried 17520 so overal it would seem that Aer Lingus carried more passengers on London flights as they did last year!
Last edited by EI-BUD; 22nd Mar 2008 at 09:11. Reason: Spelling mistake
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I had a beer last night with a friend - Good Friday and all that and he said that AFs CDG-SNN is doing really well. They are going to stick a bigger plane on it very soon and possibly another daily return.
SNN-LCY is also in the pipeline with a D328 or F50.
Has anyone gone with them instead of through LHR. Was it good.
T
SNN-LCY is also in the pipeline with a D328 or F50.
Has anyone gone with them instead of through LHR. Was it good.
T
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Havent myself but brother in law has used it a couple of times and then onwards from CDG. Nothing but good words and reckoned the flights were busy!
Heard LCY mentioned a few times..wonder how that would go down with Ryanair?
Heard LCY mentioned a few times..wonder how that would go down with Ryanair?
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Good to hear that the area is supporting AFs decision to move in.
Dont think LCY will affect FR as thay cant compete.LCY and STN are two different products.AF will be looking for high revenue pax to daytrip on business.
t
Dont think LCY will affect FR as thay cant compete.LCY and STN are two different products.AF will be looking for high revenue pax to daytrip on business.
t
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New routes
I've yet to hear an Irish airport/airline marketing spokesman say that a route is not doing well.
"Sales are running ahead of expectations" or "the airline is thinking of expanding next year" are some of the well rehearsed phrases that are included in press releases issued to lazy journalists.
Over the years we have been treated to blazing publicity when a route starts and then an embarrassing silence when an airline meekly withdraws with its tail between its legs.
In fairness this is not peculiar to Shannon but smaller Irish airports in general seem to blow their trumpet louder in order to attract media attention.
Airlines come and go to Dublin all the time and hardly get a mention.
"Sales are running ahead of expectations" or "the airline is thinking of expanding next year" are some of the well rehearsed phrases that are included in press releases issued to lazy journalists.
Over the years we have been treated to blazing publicity when a route starts and then an embarrassing silence when an airline meekly withdraws with its tail between its legs.
In fairness this is not peculiar to Shannon but smaller Irish airports in general seem to blow their trumpet louder in order to attract media attention.
Airlines come and go to Dublin all the time and hardly get a mention.
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My skepticism is based primarily on what happened in Cork but also Shannon.
Examples: Malev had 90% loads for much of last year on ORK-BUD, similar load factors on Centralwings, Loganair CSA , Easyjet etc Britsh Regional and all have departed.
In Shannon similar stories surrounded AB Shannon (Remember them) Virgin Express (Who even got a free call centre at Shannon) and Germanwings Flybe and BA Regional and Thompsonfly all left.
Then there was Skyways, Eirjet and EU Jet.
Many of the above airlines were initially presented in the Media as the Saviour of Shannon but it all ended in tears.
Remember its yield rather than loads that is the ultimate test.
In 2003 media reports suggested that Jet Magic were flying high and then one night in 2004 it all came to an abrupt end.
Of course we don't know the nature of the deal between City Jet and SAA but time will tell.
The point I'm making is that press releases don't always reflect the ruthlessness of the airline business. That's why I prefer reading forums like Pprune.
Examples: Malev had 90% loads for much of last year on ORK-BUD, similar load factors on Centralwings, Loganair CSA , Easyjet etc Britsh Regional and all have departed.
In Shannon similar stories surrounded AB Shannon (Remember them) Virgin Express (Who even got a free call centre at Shannon) and Germanwings Flybe and BA Regional and Thompsonfly all left.
Then there was Skyways, Eirjet and EU Jet.
Many of the above airlines were initially presented in the Media as the Saviour of Shannon but it all ended in tears.
Remember its yield rather than loads that is the ultimate test.
In 2003 media reports suggested that Jet Magic were flying high and then one night in 2004 it all came to an abrupt end.
Of course we don't know the nature of the deal between City Jet and SAA but time will tell.
The point I'm making is that press releases don't always reflect the ruthlessness of the airline business. That's why I prefer reading forums like Pprune.
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"AFs CDG-SNN is doing really well. They are going to stick a bigger plane on it very soon"
The current plane appears to be a Regional EMB145 operating for CityJet, and their taking over the route with an RJ85 was in the plans all along I thought.
The current plane appears to be a Regional EMB145 operating for CityJet, and their taking over the route with an RJ85 was in the plans all along I thought.
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Have to agree with Ryan 2000. Here was somethin I posted on the FR thread in relation to FR re-jigging the SNN network yet again.
The reason Cityjet are marketing so much is that the incentives offered by the combined SNN lobby were to say the least massive, and as they took the risk fair play to them, and I hope it works. I do fear that if it becomes successful FR will up the anti on BVA, allegedly in the interim there is some sort of comfort deal that FR will give them some space. However, since Ryanair announced the Shannon base, routes have not been dedided solely on commercial merit but more on the basis of who they can damage most, particularly Galway and to an extent Cork and also anybody else operating from Shannon. Looking at the SNN business case without FR they have lost nearly every other european operator, the EI deal on transatlantic has been watered substantially and when the troops dry up who knows what's for SNN, there is no plan, because there can't be, Ryanair run the show. How many routes out of the West of Ireland have been started by FR only to be dropped, when it suited them or when the competition had been quashed by predatory pricing. These routes will never be operated again by Ryanair or indeed any other carrier. When these routes are dropped are the punitive measures in the new route contract being properly applied by Shannon, indeed new routes that come about by creating capacity through closing another should not receive any discounts. Regrettably for SNN and the West of Ireland the tourist economy will be dictated by MOL in a few years and that base will be a fraction of its current size. It was a bad day for the West of Ireland when SNN agreed that deal, hopefully someone from the EU will start looking at this very very closely! Ryanair and MOL have been great for this country and balancing air travel, however in the case of Shannon they are in my view a disaster. Let's hope Cityjet survive at SNN.
The reason Cityjet are marketing so much is that the incentives offered by the combined SNN lobby were to say the least massive, and as they took the risk fair play to them, and I hope it works. I do fear that if it becomes successful FR will up the anti on BVA, allegedly in the interim there is some sort of comfort deal that FR will give them some space. However, since Ryanair announced the Shannon base, routes have not been dedided solely on commercial merit but more on the basis of who they can damage most, particularly Galway and to an extent Cork and also anybody else operating from Shannon. Looking at the SNN business case without FR they have lost nearly every other european operator, the EI deal on transatlantic has been watered substantially and when the troops dry up who knows what's for SNN, there is no plan, because there can't be, Ryanair run the show. How many routes out of the West of Ireland have been started by FR only to be dropped, when it suited them or when the competition had been quashed by predatory pricing. These routes will never be operated again by Ryanair or indeed any other carrier. When these routes are dropped are the punitive measures in the new route contract being properly applied by Shannon, indeed new routes that come about by creating capacity through closing another should not receive any discounts. Regrettably for SNN and the West of Ireland the tourist economy will be dictated by MOL in a few years and that base will be a fraction of its current size. It was a bad day for the West of Ireland when SNN agreed that deal, hopefully someone from the EU will start looking at this very very closely! Ryanair and MOL have been great for this country and balancing air travel, however in the case of Shannon they are in my view a disaster. Let's hope Cityjet survive at SNN.
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Ryanair Beauvais
If Ryanair were to start Cork-Beauvais it would immediately free up capacity on the SNN-BVA service as many Cork students and inter-rail types use it to get to Paris cheaply.
This would be one way of upping the ante wihout being seen to undermine City-Jet.
Hopefully some government will eventually do an audit on what return the taxpayer is getting for so called marketing support at all of our airports.
Millions of euro are been given to Regional Airports which is being passed on to airlines in the form of Hello money.
The Ryanair deal at Shannon is the greatest example of this. Incidentally many of the initial routes were targeting inbound tourists but there has been a noticeable switch in recent times to bucket and shovel routes and Polish routes.
This would be one way of upping the ante wihout being seen to undermine City-Jet.
Hopefully some government will eventually do an audit on what return the taxpayer is getting for so called marketing support at all of our airports.
Millions of euro are been given to Regional Airports which is being passed on to airlines in the form of Hello money.
The Ryanair deal at Shannon is the greatest example of this. Incidentally many of the initial routes were targeting inbound tourists but there has been a noticeable switch in recent times to bucket and shovel routes and Polish routes.
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Ryanair at Shannon
I have been reading that last 2 interesting posts by iwhak and ryan2000 and alot of it is very real, ie I can see that FR dictating the pace at SNN.
In my opinion, I do hope that the deal that FR gets is not scrutinised too closely by anyone as if penalties were imposed on FR for claiming to big of financial support, then it could be disasterous for SNN and the area, ie FR would and could in an instant reduce flights.
While I agree that FR dropping route signs the end of the potential of any route in the future or attracting any other carriers to it, I do think that without FR many of the routes operated would not have seen the light of day.
Aer Lingus never made any effort to fly directly to the continent, i was looking at some old Aer Lingus timetables for the 80s and 90s!!(yeah sad I know!) and the best they ever offered was once of twice a week to CDG and little else. They never did anything to the UK other than LHR.(certainly in the 90s). I mean in the 90s a flight was launched by BA Cityexpress or some similar guise to MAN. And prior to that it had been many a year before that was operated.
I realise that times economically and socially have changed, but I believe that without FR SNN would be a lot worse off, even if FR are running the whole show.
As regards AF doing well, its early days to call that. I believe that, the numbers lost on LHR have been displaced to ORK ( Feb ORK LHR up about 6k) and FR Shannon London numbers are up significantly to cover the void left by EI. So its hard to know where AF are getting the number from?
Does anyone know what the stats for FEB are?
AF came in with the hope of capturing the PAX who used EI to LHR to Tranfer onto other flights( connections).
EI said they carried 363k pax on SNN LHR per year and 20% they said were tranfer pax, therefore about 73k pax per year would be using LHR as a transfer point, and in reality a proportion of them would be going to the US, (who could alternatively use SNN US services).
If EI had an extra 6k pax in FEB on ORK LHR and if we assume that these were all would be SNN LHR pax in ordinary circumstances then in a year that would be 72k pax per year.Do the maths!
I dont believe that AF will attract much attention from FR as FR wont worry one bit, and the grant available must not be that much as if it were bmi/ba would have jumped at it to reinstate the LHR flight.
What does anyone else think?
In my opinion, I do hope that the deal that FR gets is not scrutinised too closely by anyone as if penalties were imposed on FR for claiming to big of financial support, then it could be disasterous for SNN and the area, ie FR would and could in an instant reduce flights.
While I agree that FR dropping route signs the end of the potential of any route in the future or attracting any other carriers to it, I do think that without FR many of the routes operated would not have seen the light of day.
Aer Lingus never made any effort to fly directly to the continent, i was looking at some old Aer Lingus timetables for the 80s and 90s!!(yeah sad I know!) and the best they ever offered was once of twice a week to CDG and little else. They never did anything to the UK other than LHR.(certainly in the 90s). I mean in the 90s a flight was launched by BA Cityexpress or some similar guise to MAN. And prior to that it had been many a year before that was operated.
I realise that times economically and socially have changed, but I believe that without FR SNN would be a lot worse off, even if FR are running the whole show.
As regards AF doing well, its early days to call that. I believe that, the numbers lost on LHR have been displaced to ORK ( Feb ORK LHR up about 6k) and FR Shannon London numbers are up significantly to cover the void left by EI. So its hard to know where AF are getting the number from?
Does anyone know what the stats for FEB are?
AF came in with the hope of capturing the PAX who used EI to LHR to Tranfer onto other flights( connections).
EI said they carried 363k pax on SNN LHR per year and 20% they said were tranfer pax, therefore about 73k pax per year would be using LHR as a transfer point, and in reality a proportion of them would be going to the US, (who could alternatively use SNN US services).
If EI had an extra 6k pax in FEB on ORK LHR and if we assume that these were all would be SNN LHR pax in ordinary circumstances then in a year that would be 72k pax per year.Do the maths!
I dont believe that AF will attract much attention from FR as FR wont worry one bit, and the grant available must not be that much as if it were bmi/ba would have jumped at it to reinstate the LHR flight.
What does anyone else think?
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"Hopefully some government will eventually do an audit on what return the taxpayer is getting for so called marketing support at all of our airports.
Millions of euro are been given to Regional Airports which is being passed on to airlines in the form of Hello money.
The Ryanair deal at Shannon is the greatest example of this."
What deal have Ryanair at SNN got that is costing the tax payer all this money. Have you the full details of this deal that you know its the greatest example of this?
SNN did get marketing support for the t/a market in the light of open skies but are you sure Ryanair are getting?
I'd prefer to see a stop put to the likes of Waterford, Kerry and Galway getting millions myself. They're hardly all nessecary and are diluting traffic for the bigger airports but politics over policies in the true fashion of FF. Just my opinion though..
Millions of euro are been given to Regional Airports which is being passed on to airlines in the form of Hello money.
The Ryanair deal at Shannon is the greatest example of this."
What deal have Ryanair at SNN got that is costing the tax payer all this money. Have you the full details of this deal that you know its the greatest example of this?
SNN did get marketing support for the t/a market in the light of open skies but are you sure Ryanair are getting? I'd prefer to see a stop put to the likes of Waterford, Kerry and Galway getting millions myself. They're hardly all nessecary and are diluting traffic for the bigger airports but politics over policies in the true fashion of FF. Just my opinion though..
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Regional Airports getting grants
vkid, i refer to the end of your post where you said that you would like to see an end put to the regional airports getting millions.
I would vary on that opinion, i think that its great to see the regional airports getting grants that will fund runway extentions, facility upgrades etc. Thats the first side of it. Galway for example would attract Ryanair straight away if it could handle a 737. There would be a massive growth in passenger numbers. Why would Galway or Waterford be any different that say Derry. (numbers wise)
Investment into regional airports is also putting some money back into the relevant communities, and creating employment locally. Furthermore, people living near a regional airport need a local airport not having to drive a few hours to get to one.
Eg Enniskillen is a classic example. If you live in Enniskillen you must drive 2 hours to Belfast Airport to fly. The midlands of Ireland do not have any airport. THey are all dotted around the coast.
As regards investment at Shannon, I cant clarify if money is being handed to Ryanair on a plate, but I would make a guess at that one. Shannon is no different than many regional airports, and thats what it is. It gets royal treatment because of a big political voice.
Its only a matter of time before EI moves 1 330 to Belfast to launch US flight direct, and wait and see that will be a Shannon machine.
Fuel prices will rise even further and make the winter season an uneconomic time to fly Shannon for the airlines. What will happen then?
What does anyone else think?
I would vary on that opinion, i think that its great to see the regional airports getting grants that will fund runway extentions, facility upgrades etc. Thats the first side of it. Galway for example would attract Ryanair straight away if it could handle a 737. There would be a massive growth in passenger numbers. Why would Galway or Waterford be any different that say Derry. (numbers wise)
Investment into regional airports is also putting some money back into the relevant communities, and creating employment locally. Furthermore, people living near a regional airport need a local airport not having to drive a few hours to get to one.
Eg Enniskillen is a classic example. If you live in Enniskillen you must drive 2 hours to Belfast Airport to fly. The midlands of Ireland do not have any airport. THey are all dotted around the coast.
As regards investment at Shannon, I cant clarify if money is being handed to Ryanair on a plate, but I would make a guess at that one. Shannon is no different than many regional airports, and thats what it is. It gets royal treatment because of a big political voice.
Its only a matter of time before EI moves 1 330 to Belfast to launch US flight direct, and wait and see that will be a Shannon machine.
Fuel prices will rise even further and make the winter season an uneconomic time to fly Shannon for the airlines. What will happen then?
What does anyone else think?
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Commercial mandate
The DAA claims that it's mandate is to operate the 3 airports on a Commercial basis. It's therefore meant to be getting a return for investments it makes on behalf of the taxpayer.
This means that all 3 airports should be profitable. It's obvious that Shannon and Cork are not run on this basis although Cork's difficulty is primarily due to the massive investment made there in recent years to make up for decades of neglect as far as infrastructure was concerned.
The nervousness and unease among Shannon and Cork staff at the prospect of being employed at Independent Stand alone airports tells it own story.
If they were being run on a commercial basis they would have nothing to worry about.
Of course the direct subsidies been giving to regional airports does make it more difficult.
Why can't we have a level playing pitch?
This means that all 3 airports should be profitable. It's obvious that Shannon and Cork are not run on this basis although Cork's difficulty is primarily due to the massive investment made there in recent years to make up for decades of neglect as far as infrastructure was concerned.
The nervousness and unease among Shannon and Cork staff at the prospect of being employed at Independent Stand alone airports tells it own story.
If they were being run on a commercial basis they would have nothing to worry about.
Of course the direct subsidies been giving to regional airports does make it more difficult.
Why can't we have a level playing pitch?
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i'd agree with you if we had double the population we do but we dont. 4 and a half million does not need the amount of airports Ireland currently has imo. Fine if you are talking cities the size of those in the UK but we are not talking that level of population or anywhere near it. I just don't think the need is there for all the airports that are being "developed". My opinion.
SNN loosing an A330 to Belfast. Quite possibly. I doubt anyone is under any illusions there. Frankly I thought that woulkd have happened this year and I think quite a lot of people were expecting it to happen this year but EI got cost reductions(via SAA and crucially their own cost base, which is probably their biggest issue in SNN) and theyre now hanging around for the winter season next year. The performance of that will be the decider there and EI must see some level of profit from those routes or potential profit to hang around for another year. Affter the LHR issue, I dont think pulling anything from SNN would be an issue for them.
Re FR at SNN...I agree with your earlier post in a sense. People saying Ryanair was the worst thing to happen the West coast and bla bla is a load of nonsense. Yes it may be eggs in one basket..but seriously what are the alternatives...seek out flaky lo-co's and smaller airlines for SNN like Sky Europe etc who change their routes as often as anyone and realistically could be gone bust tomorrow or next month..no longevity there. You'll find very few people involved in tourism in the region who would have an issue with FR at SNN. Simple fact is they are delivering numbers to SNN that people like EI never even bothered to try or wanted to explore. IMO FR are a good option for SNN right now. I don't see too many carriers either that they drove out of SNN as quite simply they were not there in the first place..at least not delivering large numbers of routes or passengers.
I don't really see why FR at SNN damaging a route in Galway or ORK should be an issue for SNN or Fr. Thats business I would have thought. Competitive business. If it brings more pax to SNN personally I couldnt give a monkeys how it effects Cork or Galway.
I really donl't think that every route in SNN launched by FR is for that purpose either..or even a large % of them as suggested earlier. I doubt if MOL would be in Shannon if he wasnt making some level of profit there from 30 routes. I would also suggest that like any business if a product doesnt work you change it...which is what I see Fr doing at SNN. There are a lot of routes out of the 30 from SNN that havent been chopped or changed, and the fares charged are generally higher than your 10Eu flight so they must be getting the business.
Air France/City Jet is a good thing for the business market and i know of at least 3 companies in the region that will specifically use that service from SNN rather than go via Dublin or Cork. Regarding numbers, yes it is very ealry days and talk of expansion could very well be hot air but it may not be either. Jumps in LHR figures at ORK for example could quite possibly be a result of that interim period before the CDG route was announced and people booked through ORK because it was the only available option. Like EI's performance at Belfast..a longer timeframe will be the proof of the pudding there but by all accounts...they are doing well numbers wise and as already stated the fares are high.
What gauls me though is the usual pprune nonsense in relation to SNN...as soon as anything positive is said about the place we have the usual nay sayers jumping on it with the hope that it will fail.... When they don't get support on that, they then jump on the Ryanair deal at SNN that is costing the taxpayers millions bla bla bla...and sure enough the transatlantic thing then comes up ..You would think no other airport ever got money...(220million for a terminal anyone...and free for us preferably..cos the politician said so..)
SNN loosing an A330 to Belfast. Quite possibly. I doubt anyone is under any illusions there. Frankly I thought that woulkd have happened this year and I think quite a lot of people were expecting it to happen this year but EI got cost reductions(via SAA and crucially their own cost base, which is probably their biggest issue in SNN) and theyre now hanging around for the winter season next year. The performance of that will be the decider there and EI must see some level of profit from those routes or potential profit to hang around for another year. Affter the LHR issue, I dont think pulling anything from SNN would be an issue for them.
Re FR at SNN...I agree with your earlier post in a sense. People saying Ryanair was the worst thing to happen the West coast and bla bla is a load of nonsense. Yes it may be eggs in one basket..but seriously what are the alternatives...seek out flaky lo-co's and smaller airlines for SNN like Sky Europe etc who change their routes as often as anyone and realistically could be gone bust tomorrow or next month..no longevity there. You'll find very few people involved in tourism in the region who would have an issue with FR at SNN. Simple fact is they are delivering numbers to SNN that people like EI never even bothered to try or wanted to explore. IMO FR are a good option for SNN right now. I don't see too many carriers either that they drove out of SNN as quite simply they were not there in the first place..at least not delivering large numbers of routes or passengers.
I don't really see why FR at SNN damaging a route in Galway or ORK should be an issue for SNN or Fr. Thats business I would have thought. Competitive business. If it brings more pax to SNN personally I couldnt give a monkeys how it effects Cork or Galway.
I really donl't think that every route in SNN launched by FR is for that purpose either..or even a large % of them as suggested earlier. I doubt if MOL would be in Shannon if he wasnt making some level of profit there from 30 routes. I would also suggest that like any business if a product doesnt work you change it...which is what I see Fr doing at SNN. There are a lot of routes out of the 30 from SNN that havent been chopped or changed, and the fares charged are generally higher than your 10Eu flight so they must be getting the business.
Air France/City Jet is a good thing for the business market and i know of at least 3 companies in the region that will specifically use that service from SNN rather than go via Dublin or Cork. Regarding numbers, yes it is very ealry days and talk of expansion could very well be hot air but it may not be either. Jumps in LHR figures at ORK for example could quite possibly be a result of that interim period before the CDG route was announced and people booked through ORK because it was the only available option. Like EI's performance at Belfast..a longer timeframe will be the proof of the pudding there but by all accounts...they are doing well numbers wise and as already stated the fares are high.
What gauls me though is the usual pprune nonsense in relation to SNN...as soon as anything positive is said about the place we have the usual nay sayers jumping on it with the hope that it will fail.... When they don't get support on that, they then jump on the Ryanair deal at SNN that is costing the taxpayers millions bla bla bla...and sure enough the transatlantic thing then comes up ..You would think no other airport ever got money...(220million for a terminal anyone...and free for us preferably..cos the politician said so..)
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I was reading your post with interest and nodding my head in agreement, until I got to the end of the post where you spoiled your so far coherent post with a pointless and childish comment about Cork. You (conveniently) forget a few things:
You note the "usual PPRUNE nonsense" in relation to SNN, but this kind of thing just perpetuates it, just either form a cohesive argument on the issue of Cork and it's debt or drop it and get on with it.
- Yes, he promised it debt free. So it should be. How would you feel about ministerial promises to upgrade all roads leading to Shannon, and the Western Rail Corridor not being met?
- Shannon has had a tasty investment in it's own facilities over the last few years and Dublin bore the burden of that debt. "Level playing field?" "That's business?" Not likely. I don't begrudge Shannon that investment, I just want a fair deal for all.
- A large part of that €220m was infrastructure related and not the terminal. Most if not all of it related to a lengthy period of underinvestment in Cork.
You note the "usual PPRUNE nonsense" in relation to SNN, but this kind of thing just perpetuates it, just either form a cohesive argument on the issue of Cork and it's debt or drop it and get on with it.
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OK. Maybe a cheap shot on my part Angry Rebel but the responses piss me off. Anything positive from SNN gets put down straight away by many on here.
I dont think the investment in SNN has been anyway close to 220 million though..nowhere close. In the last 3 years cpaital investment was around 16 million. (In the recent presentations to the comittee on the breakup of the DAA, they (the DAA) claimed it was 50million but this was discounted when it was found to include approx 30 million for the customs and border post which in fact hasnt been spent yet.
I dont think the investment in SNN has been anyway close to 220 million though..nowhere close. In the last 3 years cpaital investment was around 16 million. (In the recent presentations to the comittee on the breakup of the DAA, they (the DAA) claimed it was 50million but this was discounted when it was found to include approx 30 million for the customs and border post which in fact hasnt been spent yet.