SHANNON
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Future reports suggest the population of Ireland will grow to 12 million in a relatively short period
Report available here: http://www.cso.ie/releasespublicatio...rojections.htm
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21:46
en2r I know I'll probably be shot down as anti Shannon for making this post and daring to question the wisdom of the SAA board, but is any airline at Shannon actually paying full charges?
en2r I know I'll probably be shot down as anti Shannon for making this post and daring to question the wisdom of the SAA board, but is any airline at Shannon actually paying full charges?
Same as a few others here who aint interested in havin a healthy debate just a free for all bashing and crocodile tears for SNN. Some guys are always the first in with the bad news and last to say anything positive. This current lambasting started with the good news about CJ and since then it has been turned upside down and inside out so as to find weekneses in the SNN system and not one has well done lads on securing an alternative to FR.
After all the years of bad vibes over SNN;s transatlantic status now ye have turned to 'FR and SNN are ruining it for everyone else'. That is business, it s not always fair and done in ones own interest.
If they fail then you rejoice and say 'we told ye so' , if they succeed then find another angle.
Healthy debates me asre.
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Fullrich. I don't think you will find one person here who is not happy that Cityjet are performing. You may well remember it replace a thrice daily service to LHR with an aircraft double its size. SNN is in the state it is today beacuse of people exactly like you, full of emotion and not a lot of sense. In my view this is not an anti SNN discussion, it is about forward planning, strategic thinking, proper business, all the elements that will make sure that SNN will consolidate and grow in a country that hopefully soon will adopt a prudent national aviation strategy. May we not discuss SNN?
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Local radio reporting yesterday that a decision on the US Customs and Border clearance facility is 'imminent'. Not sure about it becoming the main European gateway but it may open up a few more possibilities.
http://www.clarefm.ie/main/news/news.htm
Potential world first for Shannon Airport
Shannon could soon become the main European gateway to the US.
The comments from the Chair of the American Chamber of Commerce in the Mid West come as a major announcement on Customs and Border Protection Facility at the airport is imminent.
Speaking on Clare Fm Defence Minister Willie O Dea says talks with the US government are ongoing and that a substantial development is in the pipeline.
The American Chamber has long since campaigned for a full Customs and Border Protection Pre Clearance Facility at Shannon and is welcoming the Minister's comments.
Chair Bill Doherty says we would be the first country outside North America to have the facility and believes the benefits would be enormous.
http://www.clarefm.ie/main/news/news.htm
Potential world first for Shannon Airport
Shannon could soon become the main European gateway to the US.
The comments from the Chair of the American Chamber of Commerce in the Mid West come as a major announcement on Customs and Border Protection Facility at the airport is imminent.
Speaking on Clare Fm Defence Minister Willie O Dea says talks with the US government are ongoing and that a substantial development is in the pipeline.
The American Chamber has long since campaigned for a full Customs and Border Protection Pre Clearance Facility at Shannon and is welcoming the Minister's comments.
Chair Bill Doherty says we would be the first country outside North America to have the facility and believes the benefits would be enormous.
Plans to begin direct flights this summer between Shannon and several small US airports, including Niagara Falls International, have been axed.
JAS
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Fullrich. I don't think you will find one person here who is not happy that Cityjet are performing. You may well remember it replace a thrice daily service to LHR with an aircraft double its size. SNN is in the state it is today beacuse of people exactly like you, full of emotion and not a lot of sense. In my view this is not an anti SNN discussion, it is about forward planning, strategic thinking, proper business, all the elements that will make sure that SNN will consolidate and grow in a country that hopefully soon will adopt a prudent national aviation strategy. May we not discuss SNN?
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"I would read from this post that there is concensus that 1. Big dosh is being given out to regional airports and that is crazily ill thought out & 2. There is not joined up thinking by government on air transport policy???? Does everyone concur?"
I certainly would. There are far too many regional airports for a country of its size, especially on the West/South coast. The argument about the environmental savings of people not having to drive to an airport is nonsense..especially if the flights are half empty..that would be far more enviromentally damaging imo. I would think DUB/SNN/NOC/ORK should be developed as the Republics main airports. 4 is plenty for a country of Irelands size but thats my opinion. Developing every other little airport is ridiculous imo, a total waste of resources and puts the main airports in a weakened position.
iwhak - heard very different numbers to that in relation to SNN but i'm not 100% on them so not going to post until I am.
I still have yet to hear a credible alternative to FR or the incentives offered to any airline at SNN. If people think these are so bad what are the alternatives. I dont think there is any secret about whats on offer to ANY airline at SNN. They are all here and I, personally think this is good business in a market place where ever air field in the country wants routes and airlines. If nothing else it has a big benefit to the region. I think it would also be naive to think that any other airport would not negotiate terms with airlines to start routes but the focus is always on Shannon.
I also have yet to be convinced of the huge subsidies that SNN is getting over other airports. Other airports are doing better imo than SNN has recently..read my earlier posts
I certainly would. There are far too many regional airports for a country of its size, especially on the West/South coast. The argument about the environmental savings of people not having to drive to an airport is nonsense..especially if the flights are half empty..that would be far more enviromentally damaging imo. I would think DUB/SNN/NOC/ORK should be developed as the Republics main airports. 4 is plenty for a country of Irelands size but thats my opinion. Developing every other little airport is ridiculous imo, a total waste of resources and puts the main airports in a weakened position.
iwhak - heard very different numbers to that in relation to SNN but i'm not 100% on them so not going to post until I am.
I still have yet to hear a credible alternative to FR or the incentives offered to any airline at SNN. If people think these are so bad what are the alternatives. I dont think there is any secret about whats on offer to ANY airline at SNN. They are all here and I, personally think this is good business in a market place where ever air field in the country wants routes and airlines. If nothing else it has a big benefit to the region. I think it would also be naive to think that any other airport would not negotiate terms with airlines to start routes but the focus is always on Shannon.
I also have yet to be convinced of the huge subsidies that SNN is getting over other airports. Other airports are doing better imo than SNN has recently..read my earlier posts
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I think its unlikely SNN will be come a main gateway to the US..but if you think about it would be very well placed to do something in that vein if it does get customs and border post. It could be a good option for a t/a player to use it as as a European hub(lower charges, no congestion, immigration, customs etc all in one). Could be a good overall package if sold right. It would certainly benefit the passenger and it would probably have the facilities to cope with it...but I highly doubt it would happen under the DAA's watch. Independence is crucial.
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"it is about forward planning, strategic thinking, proper business, all the elements that will make sure that SNN will consolidate and grow in a country that hopefully soon will adopt a prudent national aviation strategy."
Not being confrontational or anything iwhak but seriously...do you honestly believe developing every airport within 100km of each other is either prudent, proper, strategic or forward thinking. If we really want to grow the industry then thats exactly what is needed but look at the current state of play below....Do we really need all these for 4 and half million people. Look at the West Coast alone!! Oversupplied i think.
12 million is pie in the sky..if anything the people who have been coming in their droves in the last 10 years are leaving with the work..I know skilled irish people who can't get a job and are moving back to the UK/US..Spin is a wonderul thing..and the government are masters of it but 12 million is not going to happen any time soon imo.
Not being confrontational or anything iwhak but seriously...do you honestly believe developing every airport within 100km of each other is either prudent, proper, strategic or forward thinking. If we really want to grow the industry then thats exactly what is needed but look at the current state of play below....Do we really need all these for 4 and half million people. Look at the West Coast alone!! Oversupplied i think.
12 million is pie in the sky..if anything the people who have been coming in their droves in the last 10 years are leaving with the work..I know skilled irish people who can't get a job and are moving back to the UK/US..Spin is a wonderul thing..and the government are masters of it but 12 million is not going to happen any time soon imo.
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Last one i swear!!!
"What does anyone think that viability would be of a say daily flight up to Belfast? I mean the Cork flight to Belfast City does well and it's a long road trip."
Dont think a twice daily would work to be honest. Couple of times a week maybe as there is a sizeable ex-NI population in Shannon town itself but wouldnt think enough to make this viable as a 2 x daily service. Its driveable from the midwest in fairness(do-able as opposed to pleasurable) whereas Cork would be that extra distance that would make a drive painful.
Ryanair were approached by local politicians about it but knocked it back as far as I know. Their aircraft wouldnt have been viable on a route like that i would think
"What does anyone think that viability would be of a say daily flight up to Belfast? I mean the Cork flight to Belfast City does well and it's a long road trip."
Dont think a twice daily would work to be honest. Couple of times a week maybe as there is a sizeable ex-NI population in Shannon town itself but wouldnt think enough to make this viable as a 2 x daily service. Its driveable from the midwest in fairness(do-able as opposed to pleasurable) whereas Cork would be that extra distance that would make a drive painful.
Ryanair were approached by local politicians about it but knocked it back as far as I know. Their aircraft wouldnt have been viable on a route like that i would think
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Well by going on that map, you would be forgiven for thinking that the people of Waterford havent even got a direct road to Dublin.Surely we cant begrudge them their own airport if the road infrastructure in their part of the world is that bad!!
Vkid, out of interest, which of the regionals, if any ,do you fell should in some way be helped out by Government.
Vkid, out of interest, which of the regionals, if any ,do you fell should in some way be helped out by Government.
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vkid.....am really surprised. Firstly, you are so wrong on the regional airports. Yes, under transport 21 there was a sizeable capex programme for badly needed development works. However, outside of this the actual annual support is meagre to say the least.
I think there are a number of people here who genuinely wish to debate Irish national aviation policy, or the lack of it. It would seem that the SNN lobby wish to have that debate, however the only subject allowed is close all potential competition and say nothing negative about SNN. I can understand the emotion in relation to 'your' airport, but please don't hijack a healthy debate, once again this is not anti Shannon, it is actually pro, but asking the question, 'would a different approach reap better rewards?'.
I think you are wrong on Belfast, now that FR are going into George Best, and the difference between Limerick and Cork in terms of a drive is marginal, the problem is however that the route is not big enough for a 189 seater, it is plenty big for a 70 -80, but what airline, there is none, because they are all afraid of FR, again my very point.
I don't know if anybody else read the articles in last week's press concerning future population growth, I haven't had the time but if I can I will dig them out.
I think there are a number of people here who genuinely wish to debate Irish national aviation policy, or the lack of it. It would seem that the SNN lobby wish to have that debate, however the only subject allowed is close all potential competition and say nothing negative about SNN. I can understand the emotion in relation to 'your' airport, but please don't hijack a healthy debate, once again this is not anti Shannon, it is actually pro, but asking the question, 'would a different approach reap better rewards?'.
I think you are wrong on Belfast, now that FR are going into George Best, and the difference between Limerick and Cork in terms of a drive is marginal, the problem is however that the route is not big enough for a 189 seater, it is plenty big for a 70 -80, but what airline, there is none, because they are all afraid of FR, again my very point.
I don't know if anybody else read the articles in last week's press concerning future population growth, I haven't had the time but if I can I will dig them out.
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Schoolkid - Personally my opinion as stated already is Dub Snn Ork and Noc should be enugh airports for a country of irelands size/polulation. individual counties in the UK have a higher population than the entire country.
Waterford is or will be well served regarding road infrastructure to both Cork and Dublin. It is also not far from Rosslare for ferry access.
iwhak - if people want to debate the overall irish aviation policy I suggest a new thread as it is not just a SNN issue and this is a SNN thread.
I am simply responding to criticisms of SNN on this thread with questions that people keep dodging or cannot give a credible response to
what are the alternatives to FR at SNN?
what are these huge subsidies SNN is getting that others feel hard done by?
what is the alternative to the incentives programme at Shannon?
Waterford is or will be well served regarding road infrastructure to both Cork and Dublin. It is also not far from Rosslare for ferry access.
iwhak - if people want to debate the overall irish aviation policy I suggest a new thread as it is not just a SNN issue and this is a SNN thread.
I am simply responding to criticisms of SNN on this thread with questions that people keep dodging or cannot give a credible response to
what are the alternatives to FR at SNN?
what are these huge subsidies SNN is getting that others feel hard done by?
what is the alternative to the incentives programme at Shannon?
Last edited by vkid; 26th Mar 2008 at 09:57.
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I think Aer Arann with their ATR aircraft are the best bet for domestic routes out of Shannon. Aer Arann aleady has 3 routes from Cork to Dublin, Belfast and Galway with both Aer Arann and Ryanair on the Cork-Dublin route alone.
None of these routes qualify for PSO funding but maybe Shannon could apply for PSO funding that the smaller regional airports get to Dublin?
None of these routes qualify for PSO funding but maybe Shannon could apply for PSO funding that the smaller regional airports get to Dublin?
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Interestingly, Aer lingus flights to dublin are not bookable after October, but the US routes are. I wonder are they discontinuing the route at long last?
Will be interesting to see if Aer Arann will make a half decent attempt to fill the gap- ATR42 Morning (0700) Lunctime (1300) and evening (1900) should work out reasonably
Will be interesting to see if Aer Arann will make a half decent attempt to fill the gap- ATR42 Morning (0700) Lunctime (1300) and evening (1900) should work out reasonably
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vkid......feel your treating this thread with a sledgehammer, if people don't like yours views you smash them. You have stated consistently that you want all the smaller regionals closed - fair enough that is your opinion - my point is basically that that cannot happen until there is real choice from SNN and currently there is not, and why because of the ridiculous FR deal. Of all the regions that need a viable airport it is Waterford, two hours to Cork and three to Dublin, to suggest that the ferry is adequate transport infrastructure is absurd.
CCR I agree but RE will not go back to SNN/DUB have been there twice already, and they would not risk starting anything else with FR there, and who can blame them, SNN does not qualify for PSO status to Dublin as EI currently operate the route.
CCR I agree but RE will not go back to SNN/DUB have been there twice already, and they would not risk starting anything else with FR there, and who can blame them, SNN does not qualify for PSO status to Dublin as EI currently operate the route.
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This afternoon's Joe Duffy Show on RTE Radio 1 revealed all about a fairly major incident at Shannon last Friday night. It appears that a Murray Air DC-8 bound for Doha had a flame out soon after take off. According to comment by witnessess the aircraft returned to the field at a very low level with flames showing etc with watchers convinced that a crash was immnent.
Thankfully, the aircraft landed safely and let us hope the IAA and the FAA/NTSB conduct a full investigation for the cause of the incident. Of course, this will only be the start of it - the neutrality supporters will also be looking for an investigation of what exactly the cargo was abord the DC-8. There was an ex Irish Army officer on the radio show trying to press an American lady representing Murray Air whether there were arms aboard or not. It was great stuff to listen to and I am sure the show must be available on the RTE website if anyone wants a listen. Well worth it!
Glad everyone walked away. It will be interesting to hear the comments of the Shannon crowd on this one!
Thankfully, the aircraft landed safely and let us hope the IAA and the FAA/NTSB conduct a full investigation for the cause of the incident. Of course, this will only be the start of it - the neutrality supporters will also be looking for an investigation of what exactly the cargo was abord the DC-8. There was an ex Irish Army officer on the radio show trying to press an American lady representing Murray Air whether there were arms aboard or not. It was great stuff to listen to and I am sure the show must be available on the RTE website if anyone wants a listen. Well worth it!
Glad everyone walked away. It will be interesting to hear the comments of the Shannon crowd on this one!
Thankfully, the aircraft landed safely and let us hope the IAA and the FAA/NTSB conduct a full investigation for the cause of the incident.
sorry to be pedantic, surely it would be the AAIU rather than IAA that would investigate.
As for ever finding out what cargo was on board, well, neither the Gardai nor Revenue have used their powers to inspect certain aircraft transiting Irish airports of late, so I doubt this will be any different.
I recall, not so very long ago, watching two World MD-11's, all window blinds down, land and taxi to remote stands in EIDW complete with Garda escort. No one got on, or off, they refuled and departed.
The state has a policy of "we have been told the aircraft are OK, so we won't look".
JAS