What Cockpit? MK VI

[India Four Two]

It looks a bit magisterial to me, but the rear windscreen is wrong.

How about the predecessor - Miles Hawk Major?

[windriver]

Sorry India Four Two not a Miles... 1/2 a mark for the working though.

[S'land]

Fairchild PT-19 ?

[windriver]

Sorry S'land not a Fairchild...

[norwich]

Consolidated A-11 ?? Keith.

[windriver]

Nope.. sorry (not from the USA)

[India Four Two]

The instruments certainly imply a British aircraft, so this the last open cockpit monoplane trainer i can think of - the General Aircraft Owlet.

[windriver]

Well done India Four Two... :ok:

http://aviationancestry.com/Aircraft/GeneralAircraft/GeneralAircraft-Owlet-1941-23.jpg

You have control

[India Four Two]

Thanks, windriver. Where did you find that picture? Owlet pictures are few and far between and all the ones I've found are too small to make out much detail.

Obviously the ad was not very successful, since no more were built after the the prototype.

Standby while I organize the next cockpit.
.
.
.
.

Right, here it is. I'll confess in advance that we've had this type before, but I think this variant is sufficiently different to be a worthwhile challenge.

I42

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/WhatCockpitJuly1.jpg

[windriver]

Re The Owlet - Reading between the lines General Aircraft gambled on the next generation of RAF Heavies having nosewheels and operating off hard runways, and there being a requirement for nose wheel trainers - One could see the Owlet potentially replacing the Tiger Moth and Magister. Didn`t work out that way. Many more Owlet ads at Classic Aviation Ads Series: General Aircraft Company 1947 (http://www.aviationancestry.com/Aircraft/GeneralAircraft/)

Re the challenge..... It looks like it's piston engined, and quite sporty if the ASI is anything to go by... Tucanoesque

NDN 1 Firecracker?

[sycamore]

Has to be a P-51H,or Cavalier2000...

[India Four Two]

The solitary Owlet joined its ten sister Cygnets in training Boston pilots, according to Wikipedia. Crashed near Arundel in 1942.

Back to the challenge - you are right, it is VERY sporty, but not the Firecracker. Desmond Norman would have been very pleased that you thought this aircraft was his. Now that you have made that suggestion, I have noticed that the panel does look very modern.

However, wrong side of the pond and many years too late.

Edited to say I was composing my reply at the same time as Sycamore. Not the P-51H or the Cavalier. Think earlier than even the P-51H.

[norwich]

UUUMMMMM North American A-36 Apache ???? Keith

[India Four Two]

Keith,

You are much warmer, but not the A-36.

[windriver]

Bell P63 Kingcobra?

[India Four Two]

Colder. Think West Coast in slightly later time frame.

Correction. windriver, I misread your post as "Airacobra".

This aircraft first flew after the Airacobra but before the Kingcobra.

[8028410q]

XP-51 Mustang.

[India Four Two]

And the winner is ....... 8028410q. Well done :ok:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/NorthAmericanXP-51Mustang-1.jpg

XP-51 No. 4 is in the EAA museum. Details here including a very nice interactive cockpit display:

North American XP-51 Mustang (http://museum.eaa.org/collection/aircraft/1North%20American%20XP-51%20Mustang.asp)

Perhaps someone can shed light on the conficting details on the web. The EAA say that their example was the fourth P-51 built. Elsewhere I've seen the claim that the prototype was the NA-73X and that XP-51 was the designation for aircraft from the first production batch of Mustang 1s that were diverted to the USAAC for evaluation.

The MAP order was placed on 26 June 1940. The prototype first flew on 20 October. Less than four months! A remarkable beginning for a remarkable aircraft.

I've been unable to find a reference I saw some time ago as to how the EAA obtained the XP-51. The gist is that the EAA gave the NASM an aircraft that the museum wanted and in return was told to in effect, "take one of those containers in the storage area". The EAA rep saw the magic word "XP-51" and had it signed out and on a truck before the museum realized what they had given away!

[8028410q]

I'm afraid that I will be away on holiday for the next 7 days, so will not be able to 'mark' any responses, so I shall do the next best thing and hand control back to India Four Two with the proviso 'you owe me one'!

8028410q

[India Four Two]

I had a PM from 8028410q expanding on his post. He's sunning himself in Majorca. Pretty poor excuse if you ask me. ;)

I don't have any new cockpits at the moment, so OPEN HOUSE.

[norwich]

Please Mr, Can I have a go ? Another very quick post fro Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/cockpits/cop32.jpg

[8028410q]

Before I jet off on holiday, L-39C.

8028410q

[norwich]

8028410q, I think you'll find the L-39 has been done to death ! Enjoy Majorca !! Keith.

[8028410q]

Oh well, I shall try again when I get back!

:ok:

[India Four Two]

Gun sight, underwing stores and the ubiquitous "Mig" clock, so ground attack or advanced trainer - Russian, Czech or Polish?

[norwich]

I F T, at this early stage all I can say is yes to two of the above five options ???? Keith.

[sycamore]

It`s an L-29,and you can open the `doors`....

[norwich]

Sycamore, Yes it is the Aero L-29 Delfin ! :ok: So is it open house ? Keith.

[evansb]

This next cockpit should pose few problems:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WCP080704.jpg

[windriver]

Mmmm... always worry when the poster says "easy" "simple" "few problems"...

It looks quite well equipped.... but no dual controls, and instruments angled for the pilot's benefit... Mag Keys look "Lycoming Standard" but apparently no mixture control or toe brakes but posh Wood Grain dash!

No idea.... never seen anything like it... so

French - 60's and probably didn`t sell well....??? :confused:

[Planegill]

It is the Filper Beta 200. An unusual tandem light helicopter which didn't sell. (For pretty obvious reasons I would think.)

Filper Beta (http://www.helis.com/60s/h_filper.php)

http://www.helis.com/h/flpbet_5.jpg

[evansb]

Planegill is spot on!:ok: Well done:D I thought this challenge would last longer, but with mavens this brilliant, not much that I post does. Over to you.

[Planegill]

Here is another easy challange:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/TestB.jpg

[norwich]

Are we lookng at a version of Ercoupe, Aircoupe, Weick W1, Aeronca 12AC Chum, Mooney A2. Made by Erco, Alon, Forney, Fornaire etc.
An aircraft with far too many names and makers !!!!! Keith. ??

[Planegill]

Hi Keith - No it is not an Ercoupe or any version or derivative of such.

[Cubs2jets]

Emigh A-2 Trojan

C2j

[Planegill]

C2j has it. The Emigh Trojan. A squat little 2-seater from the late 1940s, whose distinguishing characteristic is that it had rib stiffeners on the outside of the wing surface.

[India Four Two]

An aircraft I had never heard of. Picture and more info here
www.redbackaviation.com.au/cobra_helicopters.html (http://www.pprune.org/forums/www.redbackaviation.com.au/cobra_helicopters.html)

Harold Emigh's first contribution to private aircraft development was his Emigh Trojan, an advanced all - metal two - passenger light aircraft whose flying surfaces had the ribs on the outside of the wing. Furthermore, it was designed so that the right wing could be flipped over to become the left wing, etc., and the right horizontal fin and elevator could become the left horizontal fin and elevator, or stood on in and become the verticle fin and rudder.

I have to say I cannot imagine flying around in the US and anouncing to ATC that I'm flying a Trojan ;)

[Agaricus bisporus]

I have to say I cannot imagine flying around in the US and anouncing to ATC that I'm flying a Trojan

Whyever not? Does Trojan mean sonething in the US?

What about a T28?

[nacluv]

Remember the early 70's Surtees F1 cars? Durex sponsorship??? Similar deal.

Now you know what a Trojan is...:ok:

[Cubs2jets]

Hi, group,

I was unexpectedly called out and am now on the road away from my computer. (I'm using the one in the hotel lobby.) I'm embarrissed to have to call "OPEN HOUSE", but it seems most appropriate.

Sorry for the delay.

C2j

[India Four Two]

What about a T28?AB,

The T28 is macho enough that you could get away with it, but a "ribbed" Trojan? I think not. :)

Here's the next challenge:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/cockpit9July08.jpg

[Agaricus bisporus]

Steen Skybolt?

ps. it was only the "ribbed" reference that began to make sense - this is an international forum folks, Trojan means nothing odd in Europe...

[India Four Two]

AB,

It's not a Steen Skybolt.

Concerning the Emigh Trojan - I'm a Berkshire Boy, so I knew it might be an obscure joke in Europe, but I also knew that someone like nacluv would explain it ;)

[norwich]

Hi IFT, How about Waco UPF ????? Keith ?????

[India Four Two]

Keith,

Right vintage but not a Waco UPF.

A clue: a different kind of construction from conventional biplanes.

[innuendo]

A Stearman by any chance??

[India Four Two]

No, not a Stearman either.

The construction difference is well illustrated in the cockpit picture.

Clue No. 2. This was the only biplane produced by this company.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Right, an all-metal out-of-character type then?

Hmm!

[India Four Two]

AB,

Yes, monocoque fuselage and possibly all metal wings, but I have seen a reference to wooden spars, but that might have been only the prototype.

Edited to add that I was referring to the wing structure. The wings are fabric covered.

[norwich]

How about Great Lakes 2-T ???? Keith.

[India Four Two]

Keith,

It's not a Great Lakes.

Clue No. 3 - This company only produced three different aircraft during its entire history. All three are highly sought after by enthusiasts.

[evansb]

The easy-to-fly Meyers OTW. I was set back a bit by the modernized instrument panel. With the possible exception of the compass, I don't think there is an original instrument on the challenge photograph. Here is another restored Meyers OTW cockpit truer to the original. Most had fixed-pitch props, hence no manifold pressure gauge. At least two different engines and two windscreen designs were also employed.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/OTW_1.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/Meyers_OTW.jpg

[India Four Two]

Well done, bri. A Meyers OTW (Out To Win) - this particular one in fact:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/MeyersOTWLtFt.jpg

I wondered about the modernity of the panel, but never having seen a photo of another panel, I assumed it was a nicely restored original. I hadn't noticed the MP gauge, but the picture above shows a fixed pitch prop - very strange.

A very nice story about Al Meyer and the OTW can be found here:
Military (http://www.russellaire.com/meyers%20story.html)
(the text colour is dreadful - I had to paste it into Word in order to read it)

and Budd Davisson has a flight test report here:
Meyers OTW Pirep (http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepOTW.html)

I've added the OTW to the list of biplanes I would like to fly.

Over to you.

[evansb]

Thanks, Simon. Great challenge, as usual. I just got back from 5 days in Las Vegas, (yes, I know, in July..?). Enough about having fun. Here is the next challenge:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WCP0807013.jpg

[Planegill]

Looks like an (early?) version of the Piaggio P.149?

[evansb]

The P.149? No. And here I thought you had hacked my gallery. Just kidding.:)

You are on the right track, however.

[evansb]

Clues: First flight in 1951. Just over 100 were produced.

[larssnowpharter]

It looks very similar to a P148.

[evansb]

It is the Piaggio P.148:ok: You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/P148_model.jpg

[Agaricus bisporus]

Just a thought; what a contrast, those last two photos.

That glorious, beautiful, sexy, perfect Meyers, and the hideous Piaggio.

Whoever said, "If it looks right, it is right!" had it bang on the nose, didn't he?

[larssnowpharter]

That glorious, beautiful, sexy, perfect Meyers, and the hideous Piaggio.

Have to agree that the Myers certainly looks great but can assure you that the Piaggio is a great little trainer. I had the pleasure of flying a civilianized version back in the 80's and very nice it was too.

This will not cause any difficulties:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/larssnowpharter/cockpitquiz123.jpg

[Caramba]

Champion 7GCAA?

C

[India Four Two]

Caramba,

You beat me to it, while I was reminding myself of the alphabet soup model designations.

It is certainly a flapless Citabria, with a carburettor and a fixed-pitch prop, and given the fake wood grain panel, I agree that the 7GCAA is the more likely model. I've never seen a Citabria with an AH or DI before, but I've seen lots with that rat's nest look under the panel!


I resisted the temptation to look up N9574S :)

I42

[larssnowpharter]

You are absolutely correct it is the 7GCAA. You have control.

N9574S

Of course you dis sir! Honest chappie like you.:ok:

That panel though goes down as the ugliest, most un-ergonomical in any light single I know! (thoughts for a new thread?)

[Caramba]

I've only just discovered this thread and am startled at the recherche aircraft and swift responses.

Citabria I thought, bit tatty but fairly contemporary shot (wheel on truck) so guessed at a mid sixties or so aircraft.

Well, the only time I'll ever get in first and ImageShack won't behave. So - open house!!

Caramba

[norwich]

Caramba, I will stand in for you, Well done. This post is so easy I will expect "exact model" answers ???? Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/cockpits/cop33.jpg

[Cubs2jets]

This one may be tredding the line of having been posted before, though in a much less updated form.

C2j

norwich check your pm.

[ozbeowulf]

Well, there's a DC-3 under all the fancy new gloss. The gear latch and lever, the pedestal, the windscreen shape and the control column (though not the yoke) all give it away.

This is one of the turboprop versions, I'd guess, but I hate those abominations too much to care what they call it.

If that answer is close enough, make it OPEN HOUSE.

Glenn

[Agaricus bisporus]

Its a Basler BT67

Why abomination? If it keeps the old things flying why not, they'll go for scrap otherwise. This isn't like unnecessarily butchering a Bearcat or Sea Fury for racing.

[norwich]

Agaricus, Yes it was that easy, I am surprised that, according to Mels listings, the DC-3 / C-47 has not been done before ! so I went for a 'nearly' post.
We all await your next challenge. Keith

[evansb]

I would assume we are still allowed to post the piston version, the Russian and Japanese version, as well as the 3-engined version, and the DC-1, DC-2 and the Super DC-3. Also the glider version. I am still looking for a photo of the amphibian DC-3 cockpit.

[MReyn24050]

Bri. Here is an Amphibian C-47 but not the cockpit.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/AmphibianC-47.jpg

[S'land]

Now that is one beautiful bird.

[Agaricus bisporus]

3 engine??

Glider????? Intentional, I assume?

Whoever shows me pictures of these can have the next challenge!


Anyone got a job going on a Basler? I want one!

[evansb]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/XCG-17.jpg

[norwich]

Ummm and the Polair Tri Turbo 3 !!!!

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/polairtriturbo3.jpg

[evansb]

Here is the next 'What Cockpit?':
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WCP080716.jpg

[Caramba]

Pietenpol Aircamper??

C

[evansb]

Sorry, not a Pietenpol Aircamper. It is a parasol wing, however.

[norwich]

Bri, If I keep trying this one, it must be correct one day ?? WACO UPF 7
Keith.

[evansb]

Sorry. Keith, not a WACO Alphabet soup, but it is American. The challenge aircraft is very rare, and one of the few examples is restored and airworthy.

[windriver]

... Davis D1-W

[evansb]

Sorry, not the Davis DW-1. Same time-frame. The challenge aircraft set a record.

[Cubs2jets]

The windshield doesn't match the pictures I have and the fuselage seems a bit too narrow BUT..

Fairchild 22?

C2j

[sycamore]

A Gourdou-Leseurre ?

LATER; A Morane-Saulnier M.S 343...(F-APIA)?

[evansb]

Sorry, not a Fairchild 22. Not made in France. The mystery aircraft was designed by an aviation pioneer who gave a famous pilot his first flight in an aeroplane.

[India Four Two]

Bri,

Ryan YO-51 Dragonfly?

In which case, the pioneer would be Tubal Claude Ryan (you can see why he used his second name), but I cannot find out who the other famous pilot might be.

[evansb]

Sorry Simon, not a Ryan, but the mystery aircaft was built in California.

[norwich]

Not easy at all !!! I will try Douglas BT-2A, only for the windshield ?? Keith.

[evansb]

Not a Douglas aircraft. The mystery ship set an endurance record with an L-head radial engine.

[norwich]

More theory !!! Should I say Timm M-150 ? as Otto.W.Timm took Charles Lindburgh for his first flight at Lincoln Standard Airfield on April 9 1922.

[evansb]

Yes, Keith. It is the Timm M-150 Collegiate City of Los Angeles. You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/Timm_Collegiate_inFlight.jpg

[norwich]

Thank you evansb, that took some research ! good one ! my next will last no time ! Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/cockpits/cop34.jpg

[Cubs2jets]

Ercoupe/Aircoupe

C2j

[norwich]

c2j you are correct again, an aircraft with more names and makers than owners ! Over to your choice. Keith.

[Cubs2jets]

Thank you Norwich,

Here is one more obscure. Two photos to get things going.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj200/Cubs2jets/136_3654.jpg?t=1216643785

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj200/Cubs2jets/136_3656.jpg?t=1216643807

C2j

[aviate1138]

A Rearwin Cloudster perhaps?

[Cubs2jets]

Not a Rearwin, though of generally similar timeframe.

C2j

[Planegill]

Looks similar to the St. Louis Cardinal, although the panel is not original.

[Cubs2jets]

Planegill,

Good guess, but NO it is NOT the St. Louis Cardinal.

32 produced by a manufacturer with an interesting connection to travel.

C2j

[evansb]

Welch Falcon ?

[Cubs2jets]

Not a Welch Falcon.

Never thought this would go on so long with this smart group! Manufactured in the American mid-west by a company with a good reputation in baggage.

C2j

[con-pilot]

Surely not a Moncoupe? (sp?)

[Cubs2jets]

Not a Monocoupe, but it is generally similar in appearence (weren't they all?). This plane was built in 1931 and mounts a 90hp Warner radial engine.

To the best of my knowledge only two examples of this company's flying produce exist today, both in museums. One in Canada and the other (my challenge) in the US.

C2j

[larssnowpharter]

The Kari Keen Sioux Coupe.

[Cubs2jets]

Lars is the man! :ok:

The Kerry-Keen Souix Coupe was built in Souix City, Iowa by a subsidiary of the Kerry-Keen luggage company that was well known for their trunk (luggage) manufacturing.

To be honest, I had never even heard of this plane until just before I posted the challenge!

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj200/Cubs2jets/136_3637.jpg?t=1216990443

C2j

[larssnowpharter]

To be honest I had never heard of it either. In researching tho it did come up but the photos did not show that rear window.

The luggage connection no doubt explains what looks like a very high quality leather interior.

This is not on Mel's list (thanks for keeping us on the straight and narrow, by the way) but I doubt it will cause any problems.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/larssnowpharter/cockpitquiz124.jpg

[Cubs2jets]

Fairchild 24W

C2j

[larssnowpharter]

You are correct sir. :D:D:D

And she looks pretty too!

You have control

[Cubs2jets]

OK!

Hopefully this one won't confound the experts for 4 days like my last one. (In reality I think the experts must have been on holiday this last week, :} )


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj200/Cubs2jets/136_3626.jpg?t=1217017738

C2j

[ozbeowulf]

The Aetna-Timm Aerocraft, a 1941 one-off.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg192/ozbeowulf/Aetna-TimmAerocraft.jpg

When confirmed, make it OPEN HOUSE.

[Cubs2jets]

Ozbeowulf has it! :ok:

S/N 4, last remaining of 6 Aetna-Timm Aerocraft built to compete for a military trainer contract. Kinner R55 engine of 160 hp.

Ozbeowulf says open house.

C2j

[India Four Two]

Another in the "Surprised it's not on Mel's list" category:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/Cockpit080727.jpg

[norwich]

IFT, I too am shocked ! the Miles Messenger is not in Mels supurb list ... Yet ??? Keith.

Spooky, This one seems to have modified pedals !!!

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/cockpits/messenger.jpg

[India Four Two]

Norwich, yes the Miles Messenger.

The modified pedals are from the export Metric version ;)

You have control

[norwich]

Thans IFT, Stumbled upon that some time back ! So a little more up to date ish with this one. Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/cockpits/cop35.jpg

[sycamore]

Grumman A-6 Intruder,or EA-6 variant..

[norwich]

Sorry Sycamore, not an A6. Keith.

[sycamore]

Yes,sorry,brain fade due shopping;S-3 Viking perhaps ?

[norwich]

S 3 Viking it is Sycamore, although a very much updated cockpit ! :ok:
Over to your next .... Keith.

[sycamore]

Sorry Norwich,I declare Open House....

[Aerostar6]

OV6 Mohawk?

[evansb]

No reply heard. So...here is the next 'What Cockpit?':
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WCP080729.jpg

[twochai]

Bell 212, with the IFR cert package??

[evansb]

Hey twochai, Canucks rule! Sorry chai, not a Bell. Not built in Canada.

[MReyn24050]

Hi Bri. Nice to see a Rotary Wing for a change, please check PMs.
Mel

[Agaricus bisporus]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

BK117?

[evansb]

Sorry, not the BK117.

[8028410q]

AS365 Dauphin

[evansb]

Eurocopter AS-365 Dauphin is correct:ok: You have control.

[8028410q]

I have nothing ready at the moment - open house.

[MReyn24050]

Something slightly different, it is a cockpit but no instrument panel on show I am afraid.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz328.jpg
Mel

[8028410q]

Folland Gnat F1

[MReyn24050]

Sorry 8028410q not the Folland Gnat F1.
Mel

[RETDPI]

Aerfer Sagittario?

[sycamore]

Ambrosini(Aerfer) Ariete...Derwent and Soar powered...


Open House

[MReyn24050]

RETDPI is obviously a man who knows his aircraft.:ok::D. It is indeed the Aerfer Sagittario II. However Sycamore's choice the Ambrosini (Aerfer) Ariete is very very close as both aircraft were basically similar and I would say be almost impossible to tell the difference from the photograph posted.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/AerferSagittarioII.jpg
From Virtual Aircraft Museum
After tests with a 45° sweptback wing fitted to an otherwise standard Ambrosini S.7, thus nicknamed Freccia (Arrow), the designer Sergio Stefanutti designed the Sagittario (Archer) powered by a 400kg thrust Turbomeca Marbore turbojet. Intended mainly for aerodynamic research into transonic compressibility, the Sagittario was built largely of wood, and flew for the first time on 5 January 1953. From this initial prototype Stefanutti subsequently developed the Sagittario II, which made its maiden flight on 19 May 1956. Powered by a Rolls-Royce Derwent 9 turbojet, this more advanced aircraft was virtually a new design and of all-metal construction. The Sagittario II was the first aircraft of Italian design to exceed Mach unity when it reached Mach 1.1 in a dive on 4 December 1956.

You have control.
Mel

[RETDPI]

The Ariete and Sagittario were pretty well identical around the cockpit. Actually I guessed Ariete first then checked on line. As now preserved at Vigna di Valle ,the anti-glare panel on the preserved Sagittario matched your shot (the Ariete now not having one) :8-so I changed my post.

I don't recall this cockpit being posted.....

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/gjquick/Cock1.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Sorry 8028410q could you please hold your post until RETDPI's challenge has been identified or open house is given, otherwise confusion reigns.
Mel

[8028410q]

Sorry Mel. Post deleted.

Su-15.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks much appreciated.
Mel

[RETDPI]

Su -15 "Flagon" it certainly is , well done 8028410q . (Hmm. That looks vaguely like a comparatively recent service number.???)

Looks like we are all back on track as you've just posted( and deleted) so you can now reinstate.

Then off we go again :).

[8028410q]

Hmm, recent service number, no, issued some 25 years ago! Sorry about the mixup before. Here is my post:


http://transglobalaircraft.co.uk/files/What_Cockpit/image3.jpg

8028410q

[RETDPI]

So still comparatively recent then. :}

[MReyn24050]

That looks like a YAKOVLEV YAK-28 to me.
Mel

[8028410q]

Correct, Yak-28P interceptor.

You have control.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks 8028410q, interesting challenge.
Here is the next one, a nice easy one.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz329.jpg

[evansb]

VL Viima ?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Bri not the VL Viima.
Mel

[MReyn24050]

No takers apart from Bri. Must be time for a clue. It was a British aircraft.
Mel

[evansb]

Thanks Mel. The Gosport Tube and the P.8 Compass should account for the British origin, but I can't find a match.:ugh:

[MReyn24050]

Whilst one of the cleanest biplanes ever built it only had a very limited production run (single figure).
Mel

[windriver]

Was the challenge aircraft from a "Big Name" manufacturer...

(I was going to go for The Bristol (Lucifer) Trainer... but apparently 24 were built which rules it out.)

[MReyn24050]

windriver. Yes it was from a "Big Name" manufacturer but not Bristol.
Mel

[windriver]

Not having much luck here... but one more question please...

Did the challenge aircraft have a nosewheel? The "angle" of the fuselage suggests this might be the case....

[MReyn24050]

No she was a conventional tail dragger. I think "angle" of the fuselage was due to the way the photograph was taken. This aircraft flew mid 1930s.
Mel

[evansb]

Avro 636 ?

[MReyn24050]

That is the one Bri.:ok:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/avro-636.jpg
The Avro 636 was designed in November 1934 by Roy Chadwick, Avro's chief designer as a one or two seat fighter trainer, and was planned to reproduce the flying characteristics of single-seat fighters.
Only one order for 4 aircraft was received from the Irish Air Corps in December 1934. These aircraft were powered by old Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar IVC engines. Although the Jaguar IVC powered aircraft was planned to be designated as the Avro 667, they were always referred to as Avro 636s.
The four aircraft were delivered in August 1935, and remained in service for several years.
You have control.
Mel

[windriver]

Definitely a taildragger!! .... Doesn`t look like one of Chadwick's finest either... looks like it might have been difficult to see where you were going on the ground ... so he got that bit right.

[evansb]

Excellent challenge Mel! Interesting design. The landing gear legs are especially clean. Examining designs from Fairey, Parnall and even Simmonds-Cirrus, (the cockpit doors are similar), led me to the Avro Tutor and Cadet family, which, after seeing the gun paddles on the front joystick, made me consider the rare 626. Here is the next cockpit challenge:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WCP080804.jpg

[evansb]

Time for a clue: The aeroplane was designed for aerial survey.

[aviate1138]

AS 39 Fleet Shadower perhaps?

[evansb]

Sorry, not the AS 39 Fleet Shadower.

[windriver]

Wild guess (as usual)

Lockheed Electra Junior (as used by Sidney Cotton)

[Agaricus bisporus]

ASI appears to go up to 100 in 20s, I can't see engine instruments or switches. The levers on the left could be mixture and throttle, if so it only has one engine, but where, this has the feel of a cockpit right at the front. Or perhaps those levers are trim and airbrake?

Is this a glider?

DFS230?

[evansb]

Sorry, not a Lockheed, nor is it a glider. It was powered by two De Havilland Gipsy Major engines. A later version was designed as a general purpose aircraft, and one was even converted to a seaplane.

[windriver]

Can we rule out the DH Dragon?

[evansb]

Yes, you can rule out the DH Dragon. The aircraft was not made in Great Britain.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Deeeeeevious!

No doubt it willl turn out to be a Phutney-Creech Air Yacht Mk7 or similar that no-one has ever heard of...

I love this thread!

[evansb]

Yes it is a very rare aircraft. No flying examples exist. First flight in 1935.

[evansb]

Time for another clue: The factory was destroyed during WW.II, and the company did not resume production.

[S'land]

Koolhoven F.K.49?

[evansb]

S'land is correct:ok: You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/fk49-2.jpg

[S'land]

Thanks Bri.

I had a real beauty ready until I checked the list to find that it had already been done. This one, however, I could not find in the list.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/wc1.jpg?t=1218155023

[evansb]

Hey S'land, is that a Fairchild?

[S'land]

Sorry, not a Fairchild.

[Planegill]

Norduuyn Norseman?

[S'land]

Indeed, it is a Norduyn Norseman. A Mk IV, to be precise.

You have control, sir.

[Planegill]

Next challenge

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/TestC.jpg

[India Four Two]

Bri,

I've been offline for a while and so have only just seen the answer to your "twin Gipsy cockpit". In future, please warn us in advance if you are going to post such an ugly aircraft ;)

Even without the flat tire/tyre, I think it should be called the "Unkoolhoven F.K.49"

The factory was destroyed during WW.II, and the company did not resume production.

Good job, in my opinion.

[evansb]

Casa C-201 ?

[Planegill]

Hi Bri - Sorry not the CASA 201. This aircraft was produced in the USA.

[norwich]

Convair 240 / 340, T29, C131, R4Y etc .... Keith ?

[Planegill]

Hi Keith - It does have two big radial engines, but it is not from Convair. (Or Martin.)

[evansb]

It looks immediate post-war. I've ruled out Dee Howard and the OnMark Marskman, as the panel in the challenge photo looks like an original design. I was considering the Lockheed Saturn, but the over-head fenestration doesn't match. Is it perhaps a prototype?

[Planegill]

Here is a clue which should make it easier.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/TestC1.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Possibly the Chase YC-122?

[Planegill]

Yes, Mel has it. The Chase C-122 Avitruk. (I knew those windows would give it away!) You have control.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Planegill, yes it was the cockpit window configuration that gave it away.I was thinking the aircraft was earlier than the late 1940s and early 1950s. Here is the next one:-
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz330.jpg
Mel

[twochai]

I was thinking the aircraft was earlier than the late 1940s and early 1950s.

What was Chase thinking when they designed foot tall throttles with two inch high secondary control levers?? This was the first powered aircraft they had built so perhaps they wanted to make sure the pilot couldn't forget they were there??

[pigboat]

What was Chase thinking when they designed foot tall throttles with two inch high secondary control levers??
Didn't want you to miss the Mixture-Pitch-Power part of the single engine drill? :p

[India Four Two]

Single-engined, strange mixture of instruments, Finnish placards - either a Finnish homebuilt, possibly aerobatic aircraft or a very odd restoration of a Finnish military aircraft.

[MReyn24050]

Well India Four Two with all that information you should be able to finish this one off very quickly.Except I do not believe this aircraft saw military service :ok::)
Mel

[evansb]

Heinonen HK-2 Valkuainen ?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Bri, not the Heinonen HK-2 Valkuainen.
Mel

[S'land]

Valmet Vihuri VH-9?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry S'land, Not the Valmet Vihuri VH-9.
Mel

[India Four Two]

I had looked at PIK before, based on what looks like a Winter variometer, rather than a VSI, but I obviously didn't dig deep enough.

A PIK-11 Tumppu, OH-YMC to be precise: Photos: PIK-11 Tumppu Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/PIK-11-Tumppu/0425277/M/)

What a nice looking little aircraft. Quite a Mustang feel to it, even more so in this silver example: Photos: PIK-11 Tumppu Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/PIK-11-Tumppu/1036570/M/)

[MReyn24050]

India Four Two I knew you could "Finnish" it off. As you say it is indeed the PIK-11 Tumppu.:ok:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/0425277.jpg
You have control

[India Four Two]

Thanks Mel. The Tumppu seems to have more than just looks. I came across this quote from the Finnish owner of a PIK 26:

One experienced British second WW ace once said: 'I have been flying in my whole career two very nice airplane, other one was Spitfire and other was PIK-11 'Tumppu'.
Standby while I see if I have any unused cockpits left.

[India Four Two]

Found one:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/Cockpit15Aug08.jpg

[Wanderin_dave]

CT-4 Airtrainer?

[sycamore]

Something from Cesspit?

[evansb]

I wonder where Simon (India Four Two) is? I agree with Wanderin dave's answer, but how long do we wait for Simon's confirmation?

[evansb]

It seems obvious Simon (India Four Two) is unable to confirm Wanderin dave's response. In the interest of keeping the thread moving, could Wanderin dave please post a cockpit photo, or if unable, could you declare an open house while we await Simon's return?

Bri

[Wanderin_dave]

Sorry guys, been out of high tech areas.
Can't believe i actually got one!
Open house!!!

[India Four Two]

Sorry chaps. I've been in Fragrant Harbour for the last five days and for reasons too tedious to relate, I have been offline.

Wanderin_dave is correct. It's a CT-4 ADF Serials - A19 AESL CT-4A Airtrainer (http://www.adf-serials.com/3a19.shtml)

I'm not sure if this is a CT-4A or a CT-4B. From what I've read they are basically the same aircraft, just manufactured at different times.

As Wanderin_dave said, it's OPEN HOUSE.

[MReyn24050]

Here is the next challenge, as you will see a nice easy one.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz331.jpg
Mel

[evansb]

A reverse engineered Siebel Si-202 ?

[MReyn24050]

Hi Bri, depends who copied whom. Very similar aircraft but this one flew before the Siebel Si-202.
Mel

[MReyn24050]

I have updated the list of cockpit challenges published to date. See the What Cockpit,Which Aerodrome and What Silhouette Sticky.
Mel

[evansb]

Is the aeroplane powered by a Walter Micron engine?
Is it the RWD-16 ?

[MReyn24050]

Well, I thought this would go fairly quickly some 250 viewers but only Bri with a possible. No, sorry Bri it is not the RWD-16 nor was it powered by a Walter Micron engine. It was a British aircraft and had a Blackburn Cirrus Minor engine. It was also a rarity.

[windriver]

Vef L12 ....?

[evansb]

The C.W. Swann? (Which later evolved into the GAL.42 Cygnet II ):confused:

[MReyn24050]

Sorry chaps, neither the Vef L12 nor the C.W. Swann.
Mel

[Planegill]

Comper Mouse?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry Planegill not the Comper mouse.
mel

[evansb]

This is clearly turning into one of Mel's "easiest" challenges yet!

Question: Did the company that produced the mystery aeroplane also produce aircraft during WW.II ?

[MReyn24050]

This is clearly turning into one of Mel's "easiest" challenges yet

Well perhaps I was being a bit optimistic when I said it was easy.

Did the company that produced the mystery aeroplane also produce aircraft during WW.II ?

I am unable to confirm that Bri. However, I will say that this aircraft was a one off and had a unique wing contruction.
Mel

[evansb]

Chrislea Airguard ?

[MReyn24050]

Not the Chrislea Airguard Bri, the challenge aircraft flew a year earlier. Have you sussed the latest aviaquiz yet?
Mel

[evansb]

Mel, I've exhausted my sources for your challenge. Surely some chap with an attic full of dusty Aeroplane Monthly magazines will eventually come up with an answer, alas, it won't be me. Now, back to the Avia Quiz...

Bri

[S'land]

Not sure of the date, but how about the Aero Research Snark?

[MReyn24050]

Sorry S'land it is not the Aero Research Snark.
Bri said Mel, I've exhausted my sources for your challenge. Surely some chap with an attic full of dusty Aeroplane Monthly magazines will eventually come up with an answer,
Sorry about that Bri, the answer could also be found in the Putnam Volumes of British Civil Aircraft.
Mel

[windriver]

Can we rule out General Aircraft & Miles?

[MReyn24050]

windriver, yes we can rule out out General Aircraft & Miles. This aircraft was the only aircraft the company built.
To recap it was British and was built around 1937 it was a one off and had a unique feature regarding the construction of the wing. It was powered by a Blackburn Cirrus Minor engine.
Mel

[S'land]

Let's try the Deekay Knight with its plastic wing structure.

[RETDPI]

For Bri's benefit the Deekay Knight article starts on p276 of Aeroplane Monthly May 1977 ( and includes the quiz piccie)
Yes, I did look it up afterwards!
Geoff

[MReyn24050]

S'land has it. :ok::D. It is indeed the Deekley Knight.
Side by side two seater powered by one Blackburn Cirrus Minor designed by S.C.Hart.Still and built by the Deekay Aircraft Corporation Ltd at Broxbourne in 1937. Only one aircraft built. Scrapped during the war.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/DeekayAircraftCorpLtdKnight.jpg

the following patent gives details regarding the wing construction:-
CIPO - Patent - 383079 (http://patents.ic.gc.ca/cipo/cpd/en/patent/383079/summary.html)
You have control S'land.

[S'land]

Thanks Mel. They don't come much harder than that one.

Here is the next cockpit challenge.

http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/Sundland/wcc.jpg?t=1219751941

[aviate1138]

Fiat CR 32
It was shown about 25 pages ago.

[S'land]

Aviate1138:
Close, but not the Fiat CR32.

[aviate1138]

Yes! I see my deliberate mistake!

Fiat CR42 - I hope!

[norwich]

OOOOpppps ! I think I made a boob earlier in the year ! I posted the same photo, (24 04 08, page 91) it ran for a short time and was , ironically, won by Aviate 1138, with his guess at Fiat CR32 ? looking back at my records it should have been Fiat CR42 Falco, completely my fault for forgetting the correct name of my post !!! can I blame it on age ??? This is why it is not included in Mels listing as CR42. Sorry.
Will let S'LAND decide the result. Keith

[S'land]

Kieth,
I think that one of the problems is that the CR 42 was developed from the CR 32, so there are a lot of similarities between the two cockpits.

As Aviate1132 got both your and my challenge, I think it only fair that he is declared the winner.

Richard

[norwich]

Thank you S'LAND, Sorry for my boob ! Yes aviate 1138 has a very good memory, and the world awaits his next post ! Keith.

[aviate1138]

Seems I nearly got the wrong machine but thanks anyway [this is my favourite thread] :)

Here we go..........

Sorry about the quality but there are just a few pics of this cockpit and none in hi res.....

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn77/aviate1138/different.jpg

[evansb]

Gloster Meteor F8 'Prone Position'?

[aviate1138]

Right concept evansb....... at least you didn't get it first try! Like you usually do! :rolleyes:

[8028410q]

Reid and Sigrist R.S. 4?

8028410q

[aviate1138]

Wrong country, not thousands of kilometres away.

[MReyn24050]

Northrop XP-79 perhaps? But the perhaps not. I was told many times at school always read the question properly. Misread aviatte1138 comment I missed the NOT thousands of kilometres away :\. I therefore withdraw my proposal. :)

Mel

[S'land]

Henschel HS 132?

[aviate1138]

Closer S'land, getting closer........

[Agaricus bisporus]

Heck! The Germans produced such an astonishing variety of fascinating prone prototypes - once again I'm amazed at what I find digging into the background behind this thread.

FS17
B&V 40
He P1077
Gotha P60A
Henschel HS132
Berlin B9
DFS228

Now I know where the U2 came from!

or even the Savoia Marchetti dive bomber where the poor gunner sat upright while the pilot lay prone over the top of the engine! Yikes!

[S'land]

Agaricus bisporus has covered most of the German prone pilot powered aircraft (the Horten Brothers also worked on prone pilot gliders). However, there was also the Messerchmitt ME P 1103.


once again I'm amazed at what I find digging into the background behind this thread.

One of the most interesting things about the three challenge threads (cockpit, silhouette ans airfield) is getting the brain cells working an learning something new.

[aviate1138]

Agaricus bisporus cast his net and found the correct manufacturer but not the right machine.

Question is..... which manufacturer and which machine?

FS17
B&V 40
He P1077
Gotha P60A
Henschel HS132
Berlin B9
DFS228


Hmmm.... tap tap tap....

[norwich]

Ummm DFS 346 ??? Keith.