What Cockpit? MK VI

[mustpost]

It's not Italian...

I would check for peffer-salami

[Kitbag]

Transall 160?

I know pfeffer-garlic, but what the hell?

[Kitbag]

Now I know I was wrong before but how about Dornier 228?

[mustpost]

Aha - I come back and find you have been diligent! Well done to Kitbag (and A.N. Other who got it first but is obviously a gent - but wasn't quite right..) It is the business end of the Dornier Do228-100 LGW D-ILKA

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/dilkas.jpg

:D The floor is yours Kitbag.. :ok:

[norwich]

mmmm ? !!! Cessna T37 ?????????

[Kitbag]

Not quite sure what happened there I think someone in Canada may know?

Anyway thanks, now in the immortal words of Mel 'This shouldn't ..etc, etc'

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa154/Kitweston/WC28.jpg

I picked this out some time ago so if it has been done before apologies:)

[ozbeowulf]

Perhaps the Seversky P-35A?

Edit: Actually, I now note that the P-35A is on Mel's list from January 2006. Good challenge nonetheless! I'm basing my guess on a USAF Museum photo (different view) and the museum has let me down before. Even so, I think I'll stick with my original identification....and perhaps repent later. :bored:

Glenn

[Kitbag]

The floor is yours Glenn :D It is indeed the Seversky P35A. I had to crop this picture mercilessly to get rid of the rudder pedals with the very clear word Seversky on them. This lighty armed and somewhat underpowered aircraft, more or less contemporary with the Hurricane, was the progenitor of the Republic P47. The company name was changed when the Board of Directors forced the Russian born Alexander Seversky out following poor sales of this type despite his best efforts. Fuel leaks were also a major problem as integral non self-sealing fuel tanks were incorporated.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/P35-6.jpg

See, it didn't take long at all:O

[ozbeowulf]

Try this one for the next challenge...

http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08054/wotzit_10376.jpg (http://xs.to)

[Kitbag]

Ryan PT22?

[ozbeowulf]

Sorry, Kitbag. Not the PT-22.

[ozbeowulf]

It's bedtime in Oz...

I'll be back on deck to respond to answers, questions, etc, after a sleep.

Glenn

[MReyn24050]

Hope you slept well.:) Please check PMs.
Mel

[Kitbag]

Well I can't get away from the idea that it is a basic non warlike ac, probably American and the instrument panel has had a big mod done to it, maybe for long distance flight.

Haven't got a clue :ugh:

[ozbeowulf]

Morning, Kitbag!

Well, you're on the right track except for the instrument panel modification. As far as I can determine, this was the only panel.

Clue time: Another basic part of the aircraft was changed during its life. That mod cannot be seen in this picture.

Glenn

[evansb]

Is it a Lockheed Vega?

[ozbeowulf]

Not a Vega, Bri. This aircraft was built a bit later.

[sycamore]

Lockheed 8 Altair....formerly Sirius, but now with retractable gear,which may be on the end of that handle on the right ?

[ozbeowulf]

Sorry, Sycamore. Not an Altair. Not made by Lockheed, for that matter. However, to a bystander not interested in aviation, this aircraft might resemble an Altair to some degree.

[sycamore]

Must be at the start of the Alpha-bet !

[ozbeowulf]

Sadly, No(rthrop).

In addition to being made by a different company, this aircraft had a major feature the Alpha lacked.

[Planegill]

Looks like Howard Hughes H-1 racer?

[ozbeowulf]

The Hughes H-1 Racer it is, David!:ok: Well done! You have control.

Howard Hughes used the H-1 to set a speed record of 352 mph in 1935 with short wings. In 1937, he put longer wings on the H-1 and flew from Los Angeles to New York City in 7 hours, 28 minutes and 25 seconds for a new transcontinental record. Average speed over that flight was 322 mph.

http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08055/h1_pic_sm558.jpg (http://xs.to)

http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08055/h1_pic_lg230.jpg (http://xs.to)

[Planegill]

Sorry, photo not very good quality. (Scanned out of a magazine)

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/Test10.jpg

[Kitbag]

Single engine, British, late '30s, quite a wide fuselage

Wild guess Armstrong Whitworth AW29?

[MReyn24050]

That control Yoke says to me "Bristol", but the canopy frame and widows do not match any of the Blenheim Mks or Beaufort Mks. I will say Blenheim Prototype perhaps.
Mel

[sycamore]

Bristol 130 Bombay ?

[Kitbag]

I see where Mels coming from here, maybe the unique Bristol Type 142 'Britain First'? (Not strictly the Blenheim prototype as that would be the Type 142M) I think the nose is sufficiently different from the Blenheim I.

[Planegill]

Sorry it is not the AW29. It is single-engined and clearly British. Although the wheel looks the same as used on the Blenheim, this aircraft was not from Bristol. Not too many clues this time, as you get them too quickly!

[windriver]

Airspeed Courier?

[MReyn24050]

Based on the single engine and the cockpit windscreen construction,how about the Folland 43/37?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/fo108-3.jpg

[Planegill]

No, not the Airspeed Courier

[MReyn24050]

and the Folland 43/37?

[Planegill]

Mel has it, the Folland Fo108 engine test-bed experimental aircraft.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Planegill, that was a great challenge and took some digging to come up with the answer. I am sure this one will not prove such a challenge.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz306.jpg
Mel

[MReyn24050]

No Glenn.
It is not the D-558-1 cockpit shown at post# 984.
Mel

[ozbeowulf]

Ah, that's good! I should have known better.

It's easy to picture me loading an incorrect, recent photo in error. So now we can all picture me leaping clumsily to a false conclusion. :\

[MReyn24050]

Glenn :) I am sure you will soon come to the right conclusion ;)
Must get some shut eye, be back in the morning.
Mel

[ozbeowulf]

Well, despite a lengthy search, I cannot find the same picture, but after going back over the posts re the Dryden mislabeling of the same cockpit to both D-558 aircraft, I'm convinced that this challenge is the D-558-2 Skyrocket.

The main instrument panel is very similar to the panel identified as the D-558-1, with the addition of a subpanel outboard beside the left side rudder pedal tunnel. The yoke is the same as the D-558-1 yoke which did not show in the original post but was visible in post 984. The subpanel and added toggle switch on the left horn of the yoke are typical of the continual mods found on experimental aircraft. Further, this panel protrudes up above the cowling line (as you pointed out, Mel) unlike the flush-mounted D-558-1 panel in post 984.

Hence, it must be the D-558-2 Skyrocket.

Sorry to beat this to death, but in light of the earlier confusion....

Btw, if this is correct, make it open house. I've had several goes recently and am happy to share it around.

Glenn

[MReyn24050]

Glenn
To use your own words:-
Sorry to beat this to death, but in light of the earlier confusion....

It is indeed the Douglas D558-2 SkyRocket.:ok:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/SkyRocket.jpg

I must apologise to the followers of this thread for being so pedantic (or should that be "planedantic"). I just do not like loose ends, it must be my age. :)

As Glenn says it is open house.
Mel

[stevef]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r291/stevef_2007/wcc2.jpg
I'll jump in then, whilst it's quiet. I hope this hasn't been posted before. Any chance of a 'sticky' relating to previous picture lists or maybe a page number to save a lengthy search?

[dash7fan]

Convair 580 ?

[stevef]

Dash7fan has it. Didn't even last an hour!
Over to you.
:^-)

[dash7fan]

As I have not picture available, evansb would you please be so kind ....

[mustpost]

Stevef - wot you want is
http://www.geocities.com/artificer356/Whatcockpitlist05Jan2008.htm?20085 (brackets - recent)
He's found out,...:}

News in brief, elsewhere and otherwise--------
So does this mean that my original D-558-2 challenge was actually correct? (ducks for cover,coat,hat, etc...)

[evansb]

As identified by dash7fan, stevef's Convair cockpit is the National Research Council of Canada's (NRC) Convair 580.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/convair-icing-2000.jpg

[evansb]

Thanks dash7fan. Here is the next 'What Cockpit?'

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WC080202.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Latest list:-
http://www.geocities.com/artificer356/Whatcockpitlist02Feb2008.htm?20082

mustpost

Your post was the Douglas D558-1 SkyStreak. Your source was incorrect in calling it a D558-2 SkyRocket.
Mel

[evansb]

No takers for post #1049? It was a mass-produced aeroplane.

[ozbeowulf]

I don't know what it is, Bri, but I'll start the ball rolling, if it helps.

General aviation light twin, recip power with retractable gear. I'm not sure about the dates; that could depend on the country of manufacture, perhaps between 1948 and 1960. Possibly US, possibly not. Those yokes are probably a tip-off to someone, but I don't recognise them.

That looks like a Lear-pilot controller head on the pedestal and the aircraft seems to be well equipped for the type and (guesstimated) era.

Was that electrics and radio top panel standard or was it added for a special purpose?

Glenn

[ozbeowulf]

Bri, check your PMs, please.

[evansb]

ozbeowulf, Yes, yes, and yes. All standard equipment from the factory. She is a fifties's girl for sure. LBJ loved her.

[dash7fan]

Early model of the Beech 18 ?

[MReyn24050]

No further takers? After some thought this aircraft is either the prototype Aero Commander the L.3805 or a production version a Aero Commander 520.
Mel

[evansb]

It is an Aero Commander 560E, built in 1959 for the Australian Department of Civil Aviation. It had DME and an extra artificial horizon and a few other navaid test and calibration instruments. Mel, you have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/Aero-Commander-560E-VH-CAW-4-59-Joh.jpg

[con-pilot]

Sorry I was late getting in on the last one, the control lock is a dead give a way. For those of you that unfamiliar with the nose wheel steering system all Aero Commanders (except the Jet Commander) nose wheel steering was hydraulically powered and was activated by the first quarter inch of movement of the brake peddles.

For some pilots this type of steering was very difficult to learn. So what I would do with new pilots I checked out would have them taxi around on an empty ramp for about 30 minutes with the control lock installed to prevent them from trying to steer the aircraft by moving the rudder peddles, just applying pressure at the top of the brake/rudder peddles. This worked very well for new pilots.

Now, it still could get a low time pilot in trouble in strong crosswind.

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Bri, I was thinking that the photograph was of an earlier version. Good find though. I am sure this will cause no problems:-
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz308.jpg
Mel

[sycamore]

Rockwell/NA OV-10


All those gauges- too many for jet-jockeys, must be t/prop, and too many radios for fast jet-jockeys- must be FAC

PS ; if it`s right ,please play on;;

[MReyn24050]

Not the Rockwell/NA OV-10. But you are right about being a turboprop.
Mel

[sycamore]

Argie PUCARA?

[MReyn24050]

Not the Pucara, sorry.

[sycamore]

Then it has to be the Convair/G-D 48 Charger !!!

[mustpost]

Rockwell Bronco? (OV-10)

:OUh-oh, done on last page sorry:ugh: Too much of a rush

[aviate1138]

Looks like ballast under the rudder pedals? Some early Rutan device?

[MReyn24050]

sycamore has it,sorry for the delay. It is the Convair model 48 "Charger".:ok::D
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/ConvairModel48Charger.jpg
Mel

[sycamore]

Please play on...ain`t got nuffink!
I knew there was a run-off comp. and the ov-10 won,but couldn`t find details of the competitors...still, google is your friend!

[stevef]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r291/stevef_2007/wcc-1.jpg

[Cubs2jets]

Northrup P-61 "Black Widow"?

C2j

[stevef]

:ok: That went even quicker than my last challenge! Over to you, C2j.

[Cubs2jets]

Extra credit for identifying the specific mark of this one. The differences are clearly visible in the instrument arrangements.

C2j

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj200/Cubs2jets/P1010006.jpg?t=1202163260

[evansb]

Cessna Citation VII?

[Cubs2jets]

Evansb is correct. For your extra credit, I will ask the administrators to insert a gold star by your name on the left!

C2j

[evansb]

Thanks C2j. Here is the next cockpit, this one not quite so automated.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WC080205.jpg

[Cubs2jets]

Is the aircraft from the US? (I'd think so as all the instruments are.:) )

Is the airplane an "experimental" i.e. amature built or manufacturer series production?

C2j

[evansb]

It was factory built in the U.S.A. Approximately 100 were built, about a dozen are on the FAA registry.

[Cubs2jets]

Fairchild 22?

C2j

[evansb]

Sorry, not built by Fairchild.

[MReyn24050]

The panel layout looks similar to that on the Travel Air 12W except that the panel on this aircraft is metal not wood.
Mel

[Cubs2jets]

How about a Bird BK?

C2j

[evansb]

Sorry gents, 'tis not a Bird, nor a Travel Air.

[India Four Two]

Ryan, possibly a PT-25?

Although the windshield doesn't look quite right.

Edited to say not enough PT-25s built; PT-21 with a discreetly edited picture to hide the top cylinder?

[evansb]

Sorry, it is not a Ryan product. It does indeed have a metal monocoque fuselage. The photograph was not cropped by me.

[larssnowpharter]

Perhaps a Myers OTW?

[evansb]

Sorry, not a Meyers. The mystery aircraft is not a biplane. Like Bird and Travel Air, the company that built this aircraft went out of business due to the great economic depression of the 1930s.

[MReyn24050]

Buhl LA-1 FLYING BULL-PUP perhaps?

[evansb]

Mel is spot on:ok: Well done:D The Buhl LA-1 Bull Pup was designed by Etienne Dormoy of SPAD fame. Originally powered by a 3-cylinder radial Szekely engine, the aircraft was offered with a long-span and a short -span racer version. You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/bull-pup.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Thanks Bri,great challenge :ok:. I must admit the "anti-roll" structure in front of the windscreen had me thinking it was a biplane or at least a parasol monoplane. Was that polished alloy panel original?
Here is the next one which I am sure will not last as long as the last one.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpit%20quiz/Cockpitquiz309.jpg
Mel

[wz662]

Blackburn Skua

[MReyn24050]

wz662
It certainly is the Blackburn Skua :D:ok:.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/skua44.jpg
You have control.

[evansb]

While we await wz662's reply, here is a mystery cockpit:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WCP080208.jpg

[wz662]

I'm going to pass as my IT skills (lack of) are preventing me from posting a challenge.
As for evansb cockpit I rather think that my Grandfather had a hand in building the military versions.

[MReyn24050]

Interesting photograph Bri. How things have changed. Please check PMs.
Mel

[ozbeowulf]

It's a Lancastrian.

Couldn't be anything else so narrow and obviously a military design.

[evansb]

ozbeowulf is correct:ok: It is a Trans-Canada Lancastrian over the Atlantic. Over to you!

[ozbeowulf]

Thanks, Bri...

A slightly more modern "office" this time....

http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08066/wotzit_11917.jpg (http://xs.to)

[Cubs2jets]

Kodiak?

C2j

[ozbeowulf]

Sorry, not the Quest Kodiak.

[evansb]

Myasishchev M-101T?

[ozbeowulf]

No, not the Myasishchev M-101T, sorry. But thanks for introducing me to an aircraft I'd never heard of before.

Fwiw, I'll be out of the loop for awhile; it's snooze time in Oz again.

Glenn

[ozbeowulf]

Cubs2jets and evansb both correctly classified the challenge cockpit as to the general configuration, but did not identify the correct aircraft. Now someone should explore other possibilities in the same vein.

Glenn

[Cubs2jets]

How about the updated version of the Fletcher? I think it is from NZ?

C2j

[evansb]

Oh, you mean the Pacific Aerospace 750XL? I thought so as well, but I am unable to rationalize the control yokes versus the joysticks, and the power binacle.:bored:

[ozbeowulf]

Sorry, not the Fletcher (or any other NZ aircraft) or the Pacific Aerospace 750XL.

Clue: This aircraft has an unusual landing gear arrangement which is not apparent at first glance.

[Cubs2jets]

Well, it's single engine prop (probably turbo-prop). It's got really up-to-date instrumentation and radios (Garmin 430/530). I'm a bit stumped by the diagonal structures on each sidewall - possibly composite construction.

How about either the Czech Ae-720 or the ?? Epic ?

C2j

[ozbeowulf]

C2j...

Yes, this aircraft is a single engine turboprop. It also uses composite construction, especially in one unusual place.

The wings, empennage and some sub-structures are metal.

Sadly, it is neither the Czech Ae 270 nor the American Epic.

Glenn

[Planegill]

Looks like the turbine version of the Explorer. Here is the piston version as at Oshkosh 1999. Sounded a really promising aircraft, but haven't heard anything about it since then.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/Ex350R-1.jpg

[ozbeowulf]

Planegill is correct! Well done, David! :ok: Over to you...

http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08066/wotzit_11inflt104.jpg (http://xs.to)


It is indeed the Explorer 500T, the turbine powered proof of concept aircraft from Explorer Aircraft, Inc, the American company who bought the design from AEA, the Australian firm who built the piston-engine-powered version shown in your correct answer.

More photos here...

http://www.exploreraircraft.com/photos.php

and don't miss seeing the unusual landing gear retraction/extension sequence in the streaming video at the bottom of the page. If you thought the Cessna 337 gear cycle looked odd, you'll love this one!

Glenn

[Planegill]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/Test11.jpg

[ozbeowulf]

Planegill, check your PMs, please.

[MReyn24050]

Looks like an American Twin engined aircraft possibly early 1930s. Interesting fuel gauge bottom right on the panel, not sure if that is a contents guage for four tanks?
Just a wild guess a Consolidated Model 16 Commodore / XPY-1?
Mel

[evansb]

Douglas O-35/Y1B-7 ?

[ozbeowulf]

I bet you're right, Bri.

That sure looks like a Douglas yoke of the period and the open cockpit would explain why the engine controls aren't on the roof.

Glenn

[Planegill]

Aha, I have come up with a challenge that has got some heads scratching at last. Mel has some aspects correct, it is twin engined from the 1930s.
However it is not from Convair, or Douglas.

[MReyn24050]

Mel has some aspects correct, it is twin engined from the 1930s.

Now that did not confirm whether it was an American aircraft or not. So it could possibly be from the UK. This is another wild guess, if it is British, the Blackburn Segrave II which was a twin, metal-fuselage aircraft built early 1930s.
Mel

[India Four Two]

The instruments (particularly the Turn and Slip) and the wheel look American to me. Also the labelling on the circuit breaker panel. I still don't have a clue what it is though :bored:

[evansb]

Fokker YB-8/YO-27 ? I am perplexed. How many were built?

[Planegill]

Not a Fokker. It has a closed cockpit. It is from the Western side of the Atlantic.

[ozbeowulf]

How's this for stumbling around in the dark?

North American XB-21?

[evansb]

ozbeowulf, great find!:ok: I have never seen nor heard of the NA XB-21. I no longer consider a book I have on North American Aircraft comprehensive.;)

[ozbeowulf]

Thanks, Bri...

Glad I managed to come up with a new one for you. This forum has certainly shown me many, many aircraft I had never heard of.

Also, while scrabbling around the net trying to find answers for delightfully obscure birds such as the current challenge, I keep bumping into more unusual flying machines. My "possible challenges" folder grows fatter every day. [Insert evil chuckle here] :)

Glenn

[MReyn24050]

Glenn and Bri, I think planegill is also having an [evil chuckle here]
on this one. It certainly is a puzzle, from the photograph it would seem to be metal skinned and has a fairly narrow cockpit. He says it is from the western side of the atlantic yet that could not necessarily mean the USA. Although apart from Canada I am not sure of other other airframe builders on that side of the atlantic. I think it is certainly early 1930s.

Another stab in the dark, the AG-4 Crusader perhaps?
Mel

[ozbeowulf]

Funny you should mention that, Mel.

I was just wondering if it might a lot smaller than I have been thinking and the AG-4 would fit the clues. I've never found an AG-4 cockpit photo, but the bird has been on my "possibles" list for a fair while.

You might be onto something there.

Glenn

[evansb]

True enough. Although I can't see an aircraft the size of the AG-4 having four fuel tanks that have to be manually managed. Is that a key slot for the magneto switch? Quite car-like if it is. Also, the windshield frame doesn't quite match up with the AG-4. I see she is night and IFR equipped. The engine controls seem quite simple, compared to say a DC-2.

[evansb]

Is it the Capelis XC-12 ?

[larssnowpharter]

or the Douglas DB1

[Planegill]

I am glad to hear this is proving an interesting challenge. (No-one has obviously read the book it came out of.)
It is none of the aircraft proposed so far.
Clue: Mel was right, it is Canadian.
Here is another view which might help:
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/Test11A.jpg

[evansb]

It is the Fleet Model 50 Freighter. As soon as I saw the huge side loading door, I knew I had seen the aircraft in some distant past. Quite the challenge Gill!:ok: I do have Larry Milberry's book 'Aviation in Canada', but it doesn't have a cockpit shot of the Freighter. I briefly considered the Fairchild Sekani, but the windshield frame didn't match up.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/fleet50.jpghttp://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/fleet50-1.jpg

[Planegill]

Bri has it, the biplane Fleet Freighter from 1938. The photo was from the book "Fleet - The Flying Years" by Page/Cumming. The second photo, and others, are on the excellent Canadian Aviation Museum site. Over to you.
David G

[evansb]

Thanks David G. I enjoyed that. Here is the next mystery cockpit. Note that I'll be in the Kingdom of Nod for the next 8 hours.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WC080213.jpg

[ozbeowulf]

What a great challenge, David!!

You had us all muttering and head-scratching with that one.
It was good mental exercise... even for those of us who never got close. :ouch:

Here's another shot of that cockpit with the flip-over yoke on the other side... from the RCAF site.

http://xs224.xs.to/xs224/08073/7032839.jpg (http://xs.to)

Glenn

[Kitbag]

American seat, well used cockpit, twin engine, lot of blanking plates on panel, no obvious weapon systems or HUD, seems to be a prototype.


Have Blue?

[MReyn24050]

Thanks David G for a great challenge and congratulations to Bri :D:ok: for solving it I must admit my proposal the AG4 Crusader was really clutching at straws at 1 am in the morning.
Mel

[India Four Two]

Kitbag,

Well, you got the colour/color right. ;)

Tacit Blue aka The Whale.

Open house if correct - dip into your folder ozbeowulf!

[Kitbag]

I42, I see exactly why you ascribe Tacit Blue to the image but that doesn't fit in with the apparent lack of centre pillar on the windscreen. See this external shot taken (very probably)from the same source you use: http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/050317-F-1234P-057.jpg

Have just found a 3/4 view of Have Blue and the same argument applies as it has a Delta Dagger style screen. Ho hum, back to the drawing board

[India Four Two]

I think the photo is deceptive - there is no centre/center pillar.

There's a picture from a different angle on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Tacit_Blue

and a great quote:
Northrop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop) engineer Norm Cashen was quoted in 1996 as having said, "You're talking about an aircraft that at the time was arguably the most unstable aircraft man had ever flown."And if there is any doubt, see Bri's cockpit shot here:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet_media.asp?fsID=353

And re your comment about the Have Blue's "Delta Dagger" windscreen. I saw a reference that one of the changes required when scaling up to the F-117, was the need for a flat front panel, to accommodate a HUD.

[Kitbag]

I42 I agree that the source of the cockpit shot is the national air force museum (and I wish I could afford to spend a few weeks wandering around their exhibit space!). I confess I was taken in by the optical illusion. This pic seem to show a central pillarhttp://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/071107-F-1234S-006.jpg. yet here the pillar is not present: http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/tacit-blue-image3.jpg leading me to think it must have had some mods carried out. Then 'cos things like this bug me I went a bit further see these two photos from slightly different angles of the aircraft snuggled under (I think) a Valkyrie in one and looking a bit lonely in a hangar in the other: http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/tacit_blue/images/tacit_blue_3_of_7.jpg and http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/tacit_blue/images/tacit_blue_5_of_7.jpg
Or mabe (conspiracy theory alert) there was more than one built!!!!

Still waiting for Glenn to post another goody (and don't forget to add the essential Mel prefix 'This shouldn't last too long')

[India Four Two]

kb,

Judging by the perspective of the picture you linked, I think there are 7 cockpit windows, and the left two in your picture are the centre and left ones in Bri's picture.

Wake up Bri, it's 10 am in Alberta. Put us out of our misery.

[evansb]

Yes gents, it is Northrop's Tacit Blue, the actual, not a mock-up.
India Four Two completed the identification. It is open house per his request.

[stevef]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r291/stevef_2007/WCC4.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Only an hour, please check PMs

[stevef]

Mel, please check PMs too.

Steve

[dash7fan]

Bücker 131 ?

[stevef]

Sorry, dash7fan, not a Bucker.
Steve.

[stevef]

Re PM - well done, Mel!

[Fitter2]

FW44 Steiglitz?

[stevef]

Not the Steiglitz, I'm afraid, Fitter2.

[Fitter2]

Nor by FW?

[dash7fan]

Klemm 35 ?

[stevef]

Neither a FW nor a Klemm.

[Fitter2]

Gotha 145?

[Kitbag]

Heinkel He63?

[Fitter2]

Steve - Could you kindly confirm we are searching for a German type (probably 1930-39) and are not being misled by the panel annotations?

[stevef]

Not a Gotha 145 or Heinkel 63. I can confirm it's a German type, 1930s.
Steve.

[dash7fan]

Heinkel He 72 "Kadett" ?

[stevef]

Correct, dash7fan! Over to you.
This challenge lasted much longer than my previous attempts (although Mel identified it by PM within an hour!).
Steve.

[dash7fan]

Thanks Steve!

This should not last very long

http://member.file-upload.net/seneca/File0119.jpg

[Fitter2]

Piper twin. Given the fully duplicate instruments, Seneca 1?

[ozbeowulf]

Looks more like a Piper Navajo cockpit to me...

Glenn

[dash7fan]

Glenn is correct!

Piper PA 31-310, over to you

[ozbeowulf]

Try this one....

http://xs224.xs.to/xs224/08075/wotzit_12149.jpg (http://xs.to)

Apologies for the small size of the pic.

[Kitbag]

Wild guess- Northrop YC125 'Raider'?

See here http://www.airbornegrafix.com/HistoricAircraft/ThingsWings/YC125.htm

[MReyn24050]

Kitbag, A pretty good wild guess I would say.
Mel

[ozbeowulf]

Excellent work, Kitbag! :ok:

It is the Northrop YC-125, not the ugliest aircraft ever built, but surely on the short list.

http://xs224.xs.to/xs224/08075/wotzit_12pic838.jpg (http://xs.to)

You have control....

[Agaricus bisporus]

Ugly? Right up there with its immediate contemporary, the Twin Pioneer which it so closely resembles in task and looks.

[mustpost]

Er..off thread and no jetblast stuff here, but my bro/inlaw's late father was an important player in the design and development of said Twin Pioneer (ie he was v. significant....) Not ugly - it worked. Nice one in East Fortune Museum of Flight - not re-painted. :)
Kitbag, good shout, well done for Northrop, but who was the Lockheed designer they obviously poached for the panel design around the same time? :confused:

ps ozb thanks for a good challenge

[Kitbag]

Thanks for the very undeserved accolades-as usual with me I just happened to come across a similar illustration.

I do not have anything prepped- so Glenn or anybody else get posting

Regards

Kb

[mustpost]

Sorry if it's been done, I will check and replace
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/cockpit.gif

[MReyn24050]

Good find. Check PMs,this has not been done before.
Mel

[Kitbag]

PZL Koliber 160A? See here, I think its relevant http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/february_2006/pzl__koliber_160a__g_bzaj.cfm?view=print

If correct, just to keep things moving its open house, but I would still like Glenn to put something up;)

[ozbeowulf]

Kitbag, I agree with you re the PZL Koliber 160A (found a pic of the same cockpit) and I do have an interesting (I hope) challenge ready to go.

I hate to jump in, though, until Mustpost acknowledges your answer is correct.

Glenn

[mustpost]

Aarghh..you're all too clever for me :ugh:woke up this morning to find my cunning test undone within minutes. Congrats to Mel and and Kitbag and Glenn, so taking all on board let's have it Glenn. It is indeed a Koliber 160A:D
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/Koliber2.gif

Flew in one of these in France as a Moraine Salnier Rallye when I were a lad ....

[ozbeowulf]

Here's a change of pace...

This cockpit belongs to a particular model of an aircraft. Other versions of the aircraft had the same maker's name and general designation, but here a specific designator is needed also, for reasons that define the essence of this bird.

On a personal note, I have a very tenuous connection to this aircraft type because an important part of it was also represented in a very different type of machinery important to me at one time.

Again, apologies for the small size of the photo. Enlarging it diminishes the definition.


http://xs224.xs.to/xs224/08076/wotzit_13562.jpg (http://xs.to)

[ozbeowulf]

Five hours without a response to the challenge doesn't stop me from thinking several of you will come up with the correct answer any minute now.

Even so, it's getting late here in Oz. I'll be back on deck, ready to respond, after a night's sleep.

Cheers,

Glenn

[mustpost]

Hmm - I'll try - wasn't converted to a watery thing was it? :ouch:

[ozbeowulf]

Good morning, Mustpost...

No watery connection that I can think of. Definitely a flying machine.

[MReyn24050]

Would the words "travel" by "air" have any connection with this aircraft?

[ozbeowulf]

Only in the normal sense, Mel. Not a TravelAir aircraft. Sorry.

[Planegill]

Looks like the Arrow Sport F? (The control wheels and arrangement are the same anyway.) Did this have a Ford engine?

[ozbeowulf]

Spot on, Planegill! You have control.

http://xs224.xs.to/xs224/08076/wotzit_13_full675.jpg (http://xs.to)

Details at: http://www.aerofiles.com/_al.html

The Arrow Sport F was a 1935 project to explore the use of automotive engines in aircraft. And yes, David, the "F" was for Ford; a liquid-cooled 82hp flathead Ford V-8. That basic powerplant was identical to the V-8 in my first car... a 1940 Mercury coupe that cost me $75 in 1956.

Old Rhinebeck has a converted engine on display at...

http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/collection/engines/Arrow%20Model%20F.htm

Don't miss the part about how they started the engine!

You guys are just too good! Ah, well, I got just on 24 hours out of it...:)

Glenn

[mustpost]

Planegill - please post you -you - you wxnner- I'm having withdrawal symptons :}
Cheers M

[Planegill]

Sorry about delay, work day. Here is an easy one to keep things going?
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/Test12.jpg

[stevef]

What's that cord sticking through the top of the wing - a manual gear retraction system :)
Seriously, a very strange panel: what looks like a localiser but apparently no artificial horizon and a manifold pressure gauge that appears to be indicating 2.5" hg.
Best I can do is suggest something American from the fifties...

[mustpost]

Is it a Bede BD-1?

[MReyn24050]

Italian instruments. Ambrosini F4 Rondone perhaps?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/AmbrosiniF4Rondone.jpg
Mel

[Graybeard]

Somewhat OT: I haven't been on this topic before. Found the Sea Dart back on 24 Oct. Suitcase Simpson, the only civilian to fly the Sea Dart, shows up now and again at our Old Bold Pilots breakfast in Huntington Beach, Calif, and has shown videos and talked extensively about it. He never showed the panel, however.

GB

[ozbeowulf]

Mel...

I think you're right about the Rondone, but what intrigues me is that floppy gadget on the right wing. I'm guessing it's a KISS principle landing gear indicator, but I haven't been able to chase down any reference to it, so far.

If you or Planegill know the story, please tell all.

Glenn

[Planegill]

Yes it is the F.4 Rondone. Well done again Mel. Sorry I only have the photo, no manuals, so can't enlighten you about the cord indicator.

[MReyn24050]

Planegill, thanks for that, it was a great challenge and brought to light an aircraft that I didn't know anything about. Glenn, I too have no idea what the cord is for but will do some digging.

No here is a nice easy one for,if you are in the UK, a cold foggy and frosty morning.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Cockpitquiz313.jpg
Mel

[mustpost]

Too cold, foggy and frosty obviously, Mel, and I'm in Scotland :)..and it is..! Hard one..er American??:O Trying to win this cos' I've got two good'uns...

[MReyn24050]

It is still frosty and cold here in Notts. No sorry mustpost, this one was not an american aircraft.
Mel

[evansb]

Short Admiralty Type 184 / S.184 ?

[MReyn24050]

This one was not from Short's Bri.

[evansb]

Fairey Campania ?

[MReyn24050]

That is the one. :D:ok:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/FaireyCampaniaN2363.jpg
You hace Control Bri.

[evansb]

Thanks Mel, that was fun. Here is the next one:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WC080220.jpg

[Speedpig]

A very early Globe Swift?

[evansb]

Not a Globe Swift. It was built around the same time as the first Globe Swift.

[con-pilot]

An early Ercoupe (or however you spell it)?

[windriver]

General Aviation Cygnet?

[evansb]

Sorry gents, not an Ercoupe, nor a General Aviation Cygnet. It is in that category of aircraft, though.

[ozbeowulf]

Aristocraft II?

[evansb]

Sorry, not the Aristocraft II. The mystery aircraft was not American made. Its development was terminated due to WW.II.

[Planegill]

Is it a Dutch aircraft?

[evansb]

Yes, it is from the Netherlands.

[Fitter2]

TIPSY BC possibly?

[evansb]

Sorry, not a Tipsy BC. I think only one example of the mystery aircraft was built.

[mustpost]

Is it a Koolhoven FK 57?

[MReyn24050]

Fokker F.25 Promotor perhaps?
Mel

[evansb]

Sorry, not a Koolhoven nor a Fokker. The company did have a brief affiliation with Koolhoven before its dissolution.

[S'land]

N.V.I. F.K.31 - two seat scout and fighter.

[evansb]

Sorry, not the N.V.I. F.K.31. It is a two-place aeroplane, but not a fighter.

[MReyn24050]

The Diepen-Difoga 421 perhaps?

[Planegill]

Schelde S-20?

[MReyn24050]

I don't think there is any doubt about that planegill.:ok:

[evansb]

Planegill is correct:ok::D. The De Schelde S 20 first flew in the Spring of 1940. You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/DeScheldeS20.jpg

[MReyn24050]

Great challenge Bri.:ok:
Here is another interesting photgraph of this aircraft.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Scheld.jpg
Mel

[mustpost]

Grrrrr. :D:D
Well done Planegill..
Tragedy about the Koolhoven story at the start of WW2 tho'; all the designs lost after Allied bombing...
Mel, your idea was sooo close..

[Planegill]

Can I throw it over to Mustpost. I'm dying to see what he has unearthed for us!

[evansb]

Yes..! Please do so.

[mustpost]

Well.. I'm very humbled kind sirs, but careful study of Mel's very comprehensive list shows I was upstaged in 2006 with the Air Tractor, so feeling a bit flat now, However, to compensate, thought you would enjoy this....

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/med_airplane_road_vehicle.jpg



No I have a real one - this is quite close to me for personal reasons, but probably a bit simple. Don't think it has been done - sorry it's a bit small


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/images1-1.jpg

[stevef]

Makes me think along the lines of a PT17.

[mustpost]

Hi
Hmmm. back from work and t'pub.. You're getting there ;)

[stevef]

Hmmm - in that case, might it be a PT19?

[mustpost]

:D Yes, indeed it is - well done for being so quick. The Fairchild Cornell PT19 it is.


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/cornell1.jpg

My old man trained aircrew in Rhodesia in this (and other a/c) during the last few years of WW2 - I have an original pic WHICH I CANNOT FIND and would have been slightly more difficult. He told me that the Chippy I trained on was an inferior a/c (!)
The floor is yours - bring it on. :)

[stevef]

Thanks, mustpost! I'd like to have seen your photo.
I've posted several challenges lately so I'll give someone else a chance. Open house...
Steve.

[Fitter2]

To keep the ball rolling:-

http://i26.tinypic.com/kd02dv.jpg

[Planegill]

Is it a modernised A-26 Invader?

[ozbeowulf]

I'd say you've got it in one, David!

In fact, I'd also say that is the cockpit of N9150, the last of the On Mark Invader conversions.

[Fitter2]

I would say Ozbeowulf has it, since the On Mark Marksman is so modified as to be a distinct type.

http://tinyurl.com/ynqo6n

So it's up to you or Planegill.

[ozbeowulf]

Not me! Planegill identified it as a modified A-26 Invader.

I thought he might be right, so I googled the only Invader modifier I could think of and stumbled onto the N9150 site with the same cockpit photo.

From then on, it was just me being a smart alec. ;)

Planegill did the hard work; it's his win.

You got it, David! :ok:

Cheers,

Glenn

[Planegill]

Thanks Glenn. I wasn't sure at first, as it looked like it might have a sliding canopy. You guys have very efficient search skills.
Here is probably a very easy one.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/planegill/Test13.jpg

[mustpost]

Hi
Helping out here since no posts. Is it an Eastern hemisphere (c Gordon Brown) type thingy??

ps not got a clue

:ouch: PS sorry for the vague reference --
Western hemisphere is sometimes used as an equivalent for the geopolitical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geopolitics) construct, the Western World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_World), which typically includes America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americas) and Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe). (sometimes - maybe not Poland etc when it suits)
And certainly not the 'stan countries and bits that Dubya doesn't like...

[Planegill]

Hi Mustpost. Not sure what you mean, but it is not Russian.

[MReyn24050]

Four engine aircraft 1960s possibly the Shin Meiwa PX-S prototype?
Mel

[mustpost]

If Mel is right, I thought I saw a Grumman influence in some of the layout but couldn't get my head across the Atlantic/Pacific - hence my earlier question.
If so, well done - I now know more about a v. interesting a/c anyway :)

[MReyn24050]

mustpost. Please do not assume I am correct but there are not many four engined aircraft that seem to fit the photograph. However, I know that production version, the Shin Meiwa US-1, had a different panel. It is the centre cockpit window pillar and seats that make me think it might be the prototype.
Mel

[mustpost]

Er - I had this posh reply all done, but is it not the earlier Grumman/ShinMaywa UF -XS with all the boundary control layer technology and things? :O

[Planegill]

Sorry, it is not Japanese.

[evansb]

Canadair CL-28/CP107 Argus.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/argus1.jpg
Argus Mk.I early 1960s

[Planegill]

Got it in one. The only piston-engined development of a turbine aircraft I know of. You have control.

[windriver]

The only piston-engined development of a turbine aircraft I know of.

Now there's a challenge... :)

[evansb]

Thanks Planegill. The Argus was a capable aircraft and served for three decades. Here is the next challenge:


http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/WC080223.jpg

[ozbeowulf]

I believe that may be the rear cockpit added to Northrop Gamma NX13758 when it was used for weather research.

If I'm right, the photo shows the aircraft while it still had its mailplane registration numbers NR13758.

[evansb]

Spot on:ok: :DThe Gamma 2D was used an an experimental overweather laboratory to test wing and prop de-icers, radios, gasoline analyzers, and the GE turbo-supercharger. The test engineer sat forward of the pilot. The tests were conducted at altitudes up to 30,000 ft. You have control.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/nx13758northropgamma2.jpg

[ozbeowulf]

Thanks, Bri. That was an excellent challenge, by the way. It took a bit of digging.... and luck!

This one probably won't last long...

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg192/ozbeowulf/challenge_14-1.jpg

[ozbeowulf]

Past midnight in Oz now. After a sleep, I'll be back on deck to respond to identifications, queries, etc.

[wz662]

Piston development of turbine prototypes - Better add the Avro Athena and Boulton Paul Balliol to the list.
Both first flew with the (single) Mamba and ended up being hauled around by Merlins.

[MReyn24050]

Looks Italian to me, Fiat CR.30 perhaps?
Mel

[evansb]

Vought UO-1

[ozbeowulf]

Well done, that man! :ok: You have control, Bri!

The Vought UO-1 was the "convertible" plane of the 1920s. First a land-based Army fighter, then a Navy seaplane and airship protection fighter.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg192/ozbeowulf/vot-uo1x.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg192/ozbeowulf/vot-uo1-trapeze.jpg

Glenn