BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
Likes: 13
From: UK
Also worth noting the Annual Bid for fleet/position has commands at both LGW/LHR on the A320 for DEP’s (with enough hours) with only 1 year in the company. Being at the bottom of JSS is that unpalatable that this anomaly exists. If, however, you see lucrative positions globally that require say 1000 hours as P1, BA has become a great stepping stone for individuals with that in mind.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
No JSS in Gatwick thankfully. Carmen is actually far kinder to the junior pilots here.
I’ve said it before but it’s a better base for SH than Heathrow unless you live the wrong side of the M25 in which case I can see how it’s a bit of a drag.
I’ve said it before but it’s a better base for SH than Heathrow unless you live the wrong side of the M25 in which case I can see how it’s a bit of a drag.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 74
From: UK
I have just had a quick look through the PRIAM results, and I do not see any short haul command courses for anyone with a year or even two years of seniority. Or am I reading it incorrectly? I make the most junior 320 LHR pilot nearly 700 places from the bottom of the list, and I doubt they will be doing their course until about this time next year, probably after about 4 years as an FO? LGW commands are a bit more junior but still nearly 450 places from the bottom, so the course will be nearly 3 years after joining.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Sussex
I have just had a quick look through the PRIAM results, and I do not see any short haul command courses for anyone with a year or even two years of seniority. Or am I reading it incorrectly? I make the most junior 320 LHR pilot nearly 700 places from the bottom of the list, and I doubt they will be doing their course until about this time next year, probably after about 4 years as an FO? LGW commands are a bit more junior but still nearly 450 places from the bottom, so the course will be nearly 3 years after joining.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 74
From: UK
I know type freezes have been talked about to death on here, but one thing I'm not sure about is; if you join on a LH fleet and bid for a LGW 320 command, are you still frozen for those first 5 years? I assume - and please correct me if I'm wrong - if there aren't enough junior bids to fill the SH P1 requirements then freeze waivers would come into force(?) All hypothetical.. I'm sure there's plenty of junior P1 bids, just wondering how it works.
An example where things might be different this year, is the 747 where they have stated the fleet may be in surplus towards the end of 2020. A new recruit on the 747 could therefore see themselves directed off the fleet to anywhere else (highly unlikely to be a command position), if there are insufficient more senior volunteers. My gut feeling is that 2020 will see sufficient volunteers, but 2021 may be a different story.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
There are folks below the lucky winner who have valid bids so there's a chance there might be some movement lower down when the plan goes through it's multiple iterations over the year.
I think way back we discussed the probability that the less than one or two year seniority commands that did happen were likely to be a bit of a black swan event.
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd December 2019 at 12:36.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 74
From: UK
We did indeed wiggy. I was responding to this a couple of posts up, which I believe to be misleading information.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 336
Likes: 3
From: somewhere in the middle
How many pilots are they looking for on the A320 fleet?
Not sure if that answers your question, but it might give an indication of scale.
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 940
Likes: 57
From: Scotland
Last year (bid 2018 for this year’s training) if you joined on the A320 with the required hours you could get a command after the minimum one year in the company. Long haul engagement freezes were waived for about 10 or so pilots bidding for Gatwick commands. This year the most junior Heathrow 320 command in 2020 is about 3 and a half years in the company at the point of the bid results but will be unfrozen for command. The pre command freeze is 4 years so effectively lops a year off your engagement freeze if bidding for an available command.
Current BA policy seems to be that seniority doesn’t apply for commands during the engagement freeze - if you are on the 320 and meet the requirements you will get a right to left ahead of senior but non-rated bidders. This is a consequence of the fact the agreement never anticipated such junior mainline commands.
Bottom line, although relatively junior commands are available, bank on 4-5 years if you want LGW and up to double that for LHR. Don’t come here if you have your heart set on a quick upgrade as disappointment is likely to be coming your way.
Current BA policy seems to be that seniority doesn’t apply for commands during the engagement freeze - if you are on the 320 and meet the requirements you will get a right to left ahead of senior but non-rated bidders. This is a consequence of the fact the agreement never anticipated such junior mainline commands.
Bottom line, although relatively junior commands are available, bank on 4-5 years if you want LGW and up to double that for LHR. Don’t come here if you have your heart set on a quick upgrade as disappointment is likely to be coming your way.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
PRIAM (Greek god, I'm sure there's also some logic as to the use of that name/acronym): is the system that handles the annual bids for fleet and seat changes... Every year there's a roughly month long bidding window for type/seat changes and having done their bids pilots wait on tenterhooks for several months waiting for the system output to see if they are in with a chance of a seat/fleet change during the upcoming training year.
JSS - Jeppesen Strict Seniority bidding system...that's the system that you interface with every month to bid for your next month's roster. It came into use about ? a year back as a replacement for the long established Bidline monthly bidding system and so far does not seem to be really working as advertised. It is certainly producing some nasty rosters and also reduced choice for a lot of people, which is why a lot of pilots don't like it.
HTH
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd December 2019 at 21:02.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Take that with a pinch of salt. There aren’t that many pilots on the Airbus ahead of me and I’m not getting a move in 2020. Having said that we are short in the RHS of the Airbus, more so Heathrow than Gatwick. I would guess from my time up the road that the compliment in LHR is at least 40 pilots shy if not more.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 132
Likes: 41
From: 370
Take that with a pinch of salt. There aren’t that many pilots on the Airbus ahead of me and I’m not getting a move in 2020. Having said that we are short in the RHS of the Airbus, more so Heathrow than Gatwick. I would guess from my time up the road that the compliment in LHR is at least 40 pilots shy if not more.
