BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: South London
Is someone inside BA able to clarify the requirements to upgrade to the left seat SH? I have been through most of this thread and I understand you require seniority, but I’ve also seen reference to hours too. Some posters seem to suggest a figure of 3000 - is this hours or number of the seniority list, or both?
If you joined today what would be an approximate seniority number?
If you joined today what would be an approximate seniority number?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 13
From: Somewhere
That’s hours. Not sure of the exact number but sounds about right. I’m terms of seniority I wouldn’t worry about that as Gatwick commands have gone right to the bottom of the list, you’d probably get an OK bid in the first window.
I keep posting this right now but it’s very, very important. Be fundamentally aware that this company is absolutely toxic and the atmosphere poisonous. It’s going to take a hell of a lot to fix this after the dispute has ended and it’s difficult to imagine how it could ever happen absent a complete change at the top and also a complete overhaul of flight ops management. If we lose this dispute then 2 crew three day West Coast slipping in an airport hotel are next on the agenda. Not only does it point to absolute exhaustion and hellish rosters for any junior FOs on Long Haul (not to mention the rest of us!) but you also have to think of the amount of pilots BA can get rid of if they’re only using 2 crew on many of the LH routes. Does that fill you with confidence being #4500 on the MSL? It’s vitally important to think about this bit before you take the plunge.
I joined BA and throughly regret it now. I would urge extreme caution to anybody thinking of joining right now at the very least. If you want my honest opinion I would say run a mile. If you’re getting a quick command and doing the hours then buggering off somewhere else quickly then that’s just about the only justification to join this outfit right now IMVHO.
I keep posting this right now but it’s very, very important. Be fundamentally aware that this company is absolutely toxic and the atmosphere poisonous. It’s going to take a hell of a lot to fix this after the dispute has ended and it’s difficult to imagine how it could ever happen absent a complete change at the top and also a complete overhaul of flight ops management. If we lose this dispute then 2 crew three day West Coast slipping in an airport hotel are next on the agenda. Not only does it point to absolute exhaustion and hellish rosters for any junior FOs on Long Haul (not to mention the rest of us!) but you also have to think of the amount of pilots BA can get rid of if they’re only using 2 crew on many of the LH routes. Does that fill you with confidence being #4500 on the MSL? It’s vitally important to think about this bit before you take the plunge.
I joined BA and throughly regret it now. I would urge extreme caution to anybody thinking of joining right now at the very least. If you want my honest opinion I would say run a mile. If you’re getting a quick command and doing the hours then buggering off somewhere else quickly then that’s just about the only justification to join this outfit right now IMVHO.
Last edited by Plastic787; 28th September 2019 at 12:29.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Certainly a wise aviator considering his/her options and BA should recognise that the future shape of any agreements regarding commands, command upgrades, aspirational bidding between fleets and seats and a thousand and one other things such as rostering, hotels, etc. is completely dependent on the outcome of the current dispute.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 13
From: Somewhere
I think the only option right now is to take the LHS at Gatwick, get the hours and go somewhere else as DEC ASAP. Personally I’d go back to easyJet or just do China for ten years. Trouble is in the light of current events that might become a very popular course of action and hence the seniority for Gatwick command less easily achievable.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: South London
P.S. no rose tinted glasses here. Thank you for your honesty.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
Likes: 13
From: UK
I feel a tad more optimistic about the BA/BALPA relationship in the future but that is because the union will win. The choices being made at the top of the IAG tree continue to be disproportionately aggressive but also idiotic. The Union continue to plod away, playing a gentleman’s game.
Yes it it would be toxic if the company roll over the BALPA members. But they won’t.
Solidarity in the high 90’s%. We know how this will end.
Yes it it would be toxic if the company roll over the BALPA members. But they won’t.
Solidarity in the high 90’s%. We know how this will end.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Going East
Is that really what the feeling is these days? I would have thought the biggest appeal of BA was that it is the closest thing to a job for life that you can get in this industry? I thought that this dispute was about the pay deal? Is it actually bigger than that?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
If BALPA "lose" badly and end up emasculated it is questionable if they will be in a position to strongly defend all other aspects of T&Cs that the company have already made clear they want to change. We are talking about aspects of the job such as the hotel standards/location agreement, the remaining elements of Bidline which govern aspects of the working life such as crew compliments, length of working days, time off downroute.
I do tend to agree, fingers crossed, with Right Engine's sentiment about how it will work out, but if it doesn't............
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Going East
What constitutes losing? I mean, the average pilot probably has enough money in the bank to strike for a good few days without having to give house keys to the bank. Could BA really win an all-out war given the almost unanimous pilot support and the amount that the first strike action has cost?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Good question. If, within a year of the end of the current dispute, we see the likes of LHR-LAX-LHR routinely rostered as a nightstop, or the places such as Denver or Vancouver routinely operated with non-augmented crew then I'd say it had ended badly for the association.
Not sure how the many of the junior paypointers at BA, especially those nursing loans, sit relative the average UK pilot. FWIW the association and colleagues at BA are offering support for those who aren't flush with funds.
I mean, the average pilot probably has enough money in the bank to strike for a good few days without having to give house keys to the bank. Could BA really win an all-out war given the almost unanimous pilot support and the amount that the first strike action has cost?
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Maastricht
I have to agree with all the comments made about the BA management culture above. I wanted to add a word of warning for people reading this thread from continental Europe and willing to commute : be aware that BA is pretty much an anti-commuter company. They will treat you as a child and dig up into your commuting habits (if they believe you have arrived at Heathrow in the evening too late before an early report the next day, you’ll get a phone call). If you are unlucky and the flight you are commuting on is cancelled for any reason and you miss your report, they will have a go at you (which is very much unfair - what’s the difference between a commuter missing report due to cancelled flight VS a local pilot missing report due to an accident on the motorway...). As a result, most commuters would rather call sick rather than phoning ops to let them know they will be late for report due to an issue with their commuting flight... Add to that management of fear the whole Brexit disaster and the uncertainties it creates for non-UK citizen and now you know why I can’t wait to find a job elsewhere!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 179
Likes: 25
From: uk
Class Clown Cruz has told The Training Department to reduce ‘its simulator footprint’
Klaus addressed Standards Training Captains meeting and told them they are placing too much emphasis on safety.
These are very worrying statements.
Klaus addressed Standards Training Captains meeting and told them they are placing too much emphasis on safety.
These are very worrying statements.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Maastricht
The same Klaus who failed his 787 proficiency check? 😂
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 387
Likes: 1
From: Centre of Universe
I have to agree with all the comments made about the BA management culture above. I wanted to add a word of warning for people reading this thread from continental Europe and willing to commute : be aware that BA is pretty much an anti-commuter company. They will treat you as a child and dig up into your commuting habits (if they believe you have arrived at Heathrow in the evening too late before an early report the next day, you’ll get a phone call). If you are unlucky and the flight you are commuting on is cancelled for any reason and you miss your report, they will have a go at you (which is very much unfair - what’s the difference between a commuter missing report due to cancelled flight VS a local pilot missing report due to an accident on the motorway...). As a result, most commuters would rather call sick rather than phoning ops to let them know they will be late for report due to an issue with their commuting flight... Add to that management of fear the whole Brexit disaster and the uncertainties it creates for non-UK citizen and now you know why I can’t wait to find a job elsewhere!
Same old DFO had a yellow card system in place for those who missed report due to examples such as above - and that was with a relatively mature FRMS in place.
BA may well be anti-commuter that's basically down to the EASA regulations on AOC responsibilities and the law should it all go wrong. EASA also enhances crewmembers responsibilities to this effect also.
Let us know when you end up "elsewhere".....
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Onboard
be aware that BA is pretty much an anti-commuter company. They will treat you as a child and dig up into your commuting habits (if they believe you have arrived at Heathrow in the evening too late before an early report the next day, you’ll get a phone call).
Incidentally. I thought the rumour was that recruitment is being significantly scaled back for 2020, and potentially beyond. Make of that what you will.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: UK
Does anyone know how much truth there is in this? Or about the implications for those of us currently in the SH holdpool? Last update I had was to expect Jan/Feb start.
Last edited by boeing89; 2nd October 2019 at 19:49. Reason: Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
That’s not really true though, is it? BA have a number of pilots who commute from as far away as Australia, South Africa, and the West Coast of Canada and the USA. Plus very many other countries. Many union reps do! Provided they are sensible, there isn’t really a problem.
Actually it is very true. It's part of the reason I left BA. I received a phone call for arriving at LHR at 20:45 for a 6:00 report the next day. BA is not the airline it used to be.
