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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 23rd Feb 2019, 16:39
  #5981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kernow
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by rossbaku View Post
I have accepted an offer on to SH, moving from my current employer means that with flying pay and allowances, I'll more than double my salary overnight.

As I'll be bottom of the seniority pile, I am under no illusions that I will take what is given to me and ask no questions. Surely this is the attitude that all new joiners to any job, in any industry should take? Keep your head down and get settled in.

I'll also be commuting which many have said to me will be difficult/frustrating/impossible. Again, I'm aware of the implications of this however the benefits/drawbacks of commuting versus the move and facing the M4/M25 I believe are offset (some may beg to differ here). There are a number of people who commute on SH who I have spoken to and they seem happy with the lifestyle they have.

Would anyone care to shoot me down on the above?
Ignore the negativity on here. You've done tremendously well - congratulations.

And no, I don't work for BA.
Nauti is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2019, 19:16
  #5982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 43
For any potential joiners, remember there are thousands of BA pilots that do not post on this forum. Thatís not to say they are all 100% happy but despite the fall in Tís & Cís of recent years many still find it to be one of the best jobs in the country. Itís all circumstance dependant. Weíve a lot to fight to maintain and try to get back in some cases, but people above making out that Ryanair of all places is now the better option is (for the vast majority) frankly nonsense.

Iíve only been in a few years and itís not perfect, but generally Iím happy, I have taken an early command, live close to my home base (Sussex flying club), fly about 650-700 hours a year and spend a lot of time with my young family. I have a huge variety of options available to me should my circumstances change.

Come in with your eyes open and remember youíre joining a seniority airline towards the later end of a recruitment bulge, but donít base your decision entirely on the unbalanced views above.
JulietSierra6 is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2019, 19:38
  #5983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,309
I can perfectly understand some people aren't happy but from an objective POV I'm struggling with the previous Aston Martin comment TBH...

I know there are one or two, one defo belongs to a very senior ex-manager - not a common or garden senior pilot, but OTOH there are some pretty mundane cars doing the rounds, also one trainer rocks up on a scooter from the vicinity of T4 and I and lots of other arrive on foot or by bus....my car stays at home and it's a Skoda...

You'd certainly have to be pretty brave to routinely leave an Aston in the Crew Car Park whilst away on a trip....
wiggy is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2019, 20:53
  #5984 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 766
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
but people above making out that Ryanair of all places is now the better option is (for the vast majority) frankly nonsense.
You're probably right- but the fact itís going to take you in the region of another 13 more years to get to what an EZY/RYR Captain makes the moment they upgrade (or join as a DEC) confirms a lot of what was said above. For me that shouldnít be the case...
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 21:33
  #5985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by VJW View Post


You're probably right- but the fact itís going to take you in the region of another 13 more years to get to what an EZY/RYR Captain makes the moment they upgrade (or join as a DEC) confirms a lot of what was said above. For me that shouldnít be the case...

As a whole the industry is on its knees. Most airlines working to the limits. TP operator here I smashed out 96hrs 4 sectors everyday over a 30 day period 200 duty hrs.
BA captain pay is terrible should be 100k starting minimum and for someone like myself mid 30s itís making less and less sense. I donít want to be working until 65. All the captains I have flown with over 60 have all said aviation is hard work over 60 smashing out 900hrs. I enjoy work at the moment but need an exit plan and that means earning money to reinvest.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:04
  #5986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 43
The discussion on pay has been had time and time again and if youíre taking command in the first 3 4 or even 5 years agreed itís not good enough, especially compared with the likes of EZY/RYR, who management seem so keen to compare us in other ways to.

However...taking early command is a conscious decision, made with all of the facts. With flight and duty pay included it is about 100k. That will continue upwards on a (yes long) 34 point pay scale, combined with a considerable pension pot projected from that early command Iíd say you might be doing something wrong if you canít plan to retire by 60.
JulietSierra6 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 07:42
  #5987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
The discussion on pay has been had time and time again and if youíre taking command in the first 3 4 or even 5 years agreed itís not good enough, especially compared with the likes of EZY/RYR, who management seem so keen to compare us in other ways to.

However...taking early command is a conscious decision, made with all of the facts. With flight and duty pay included it is about 100k. That will continue upwards on a (yes long) 34 point pay scale, combined with a considerable pension pot projected from that early command Iíd say you might be doing something wrong if you canít plan to retire by 60.
Flybe basic TP Captain is only a couple of K off Captain at BA at the start!!!!

Retire at 60? Depends when you start plus loads of other factors. Having seen my parents pension lose 80% value through no fault of there own I would never trust any pension. Even final salary Police pensions have been targeted.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 07:46
  #5988 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 766
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
The discussion on pay has been had time and time again and if youíre taking command in the first 3 4 or even 5 years agreed itís not good enough
Eveything on this thread has been talked about time and time and time again. Have to say though youíre sugar coating it to the exteme if you think or are trying to suggest the package is beginning to break even after 5 years. Itís 14 years before a BA Captain earns what an Ezy one does. Iíve done the numbers having turned down BA787 last year (for more reasons than just money of course. For me at 35 hrs of age then and with kids who werenít born when I passed the numbers and lifestyle no longer worked).

Sugar coat what you want but itís not only people who took Ďearlyí commands that are paid less. Have a look at a 14 year BA 320 captain and heíll be on less than what EZY paid me on the day I started ...
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:11
  #5989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 43
Iím not sugar coating anything. I feel Iíve been fairly balanced. If the finances donít add up, as youíve done, simple, donít join. For many itís about a lot more than £, which in many respects BA does still offer. I joined when I was in my mid twenties and thatíll of course have a bearing on how you view things.

Going to bow out there as weíve both agreed itís just re hashing old ground. Wish you the best at EZY.

AIMINGHIGH, we know each other personally so happy to chat about things any time. If anyone else is interested in facts of BA SH, warts and all, from a LGW perspective, PM me.
JulietSierra6 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 14:59
  #5990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 8
Posts: 381
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
For many itís about a lot more than £, which in many respects BA does still offer.
Can anyone elaborate what BA offers beside the salary on offer.
Black Pudding is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 15:09
  #5991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,957
Originally Posted by Black Pudding View Post


Can anyone elaborate what BA offers beside the salary on offer.
Some of the best staff travel in the industry and a decent down route lifestyle, particularly long haul. And getting treated, relatively speaking, like a professional/grown up.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 15:20
  #5992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
getting treated, relatively speaking, like a professional/grown up.
Hugely dependent on which captain you fly with, short haul that’s very hit and miss.


Last edited by RexBanner; 24th Feb 2019 at 15:41.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 16:01
  #5993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 32
To sum up many of the posts above:

BA is a very very long term bet.

If you are under about 35 years old then BA still has a lot to offer.

If you are over about 35 then think long and hard about your motivation to join BA and whether you really will be content to be a long haul FO for the rest of your career. 18-20 years is historically a reasonable estimate of the time to a long haul command, but anyone joining now is in behind a huge recruitment drive. A junior long haul command in your late 50s / early 60s is a daunting prospect, especially given the seniority gradient which has got considerably worse under JSS. If you want a short haul command then you are likely to have a more rewarding career at Easy or elsewhere.

Last edited by Pickled; 24th Feb 2019 at 19:57.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 16:21
  #5994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: A castle in the sky
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
Some of the best staff travel in the industry and a decent down route lifestyle, particularly long haul. And getting treated, relatively speaking, like a professional/grown up.
Since the Staff Travel is one of the positives, can you elaborate on the basics of how it works at BA? What are you and your family entitled to? Do you get any Business or First tickets?

Many thanks.
GE115b is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 17:50
  #5995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: here and there
Posts: 41
Iíve been reading this thread with interest as it serves to sum up the situation in the UK presently in the airlines which generate the biggest career earnings. It seems to me these are limited to BA, VS, and the low-cost A320/737 operations which have quick commands or DEC.

I think a factor not discussed here is pension contributions.

The bigger your pension pot the sooner you can retire, or more desirably for most, accept the smaller income of going part-time.

The value of pension contributions markedly decreases with oneís age. Firstly, because contributions made later in life will be invested for less time before retirement, but also because the closer to retirement, the less risky investments one can afford to make.

For illustration (not reliable figures, not pension advice, do your own research)- consider £1000 invested at age 35 vs at age 50, with retirement planned at 60.

£1,000 over 25 years mainly in equities then into bonds/cash towards the end, letís say returns 4% above inflation on average. So you hit 60 and that £1,000 is worth £2,666.

Your £1,000 at 50 is going to be straight into bonds/cash, so letís say that returns 2% above inflation. Itís worth £1,219 when you reach 60.

The figures are speculative and generalised but the point is money saved earlier in life is far more valuable.

With these savings, the pilot who earns more earlier can afford to retire or go part-time sooner.

A question to consider is would you prefer to spend the end of your career at a lo-co dropped down to 50% having banked the cash already, or be on a 900/750hr BA/VS long haul roster for your whole time, with both having the same retirement outcome.
Large Dave is online now  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 18:16
  #5996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 625
All good discussion points. After all, we come to work to earn money at the end of the day. I only wish BA management realised this.
hunterboy is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 18:49
  #5997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Large Dave View Post
I’ve been reading this thread with interest as it serves to sum up the situation in the UK presently in the airlines which generate the biggest career earnings. It seems to me these are limited to BA, VS, and the low-cost A320/737 operations which have quick commands or DEC.

I think a factor not discussed here is pension contributions.

The bigger your pension pot the sooner you can retire, or more desirably for most, accept the smaller income of going part-time.

The value of pension contributions markedly decreases with one’s age. Firstly, because contributions made later in life will be invested for less time before retirement, but also because the closer to retirement, the less risky investments one can afford to make.

For illustration (not reliable figures, not pension advice, do your own research)- consider £1000 invested at age 35 vs at age 50, with retirement planned at 60.

£1,000 over 25 years mainly in equities then into bonds/cash towards the end, let’s say returns 4% above inflation on average. So you hit 60 and that £1,000 is worth £2,666.

Your £1,000 at 50 is going to be straight into bonds/cash, so let’s say that returns 2% above inflation. It’s worth £1,219 when you reach 60.

The figures are speculative and generalised but the point is money saved earlier in life is far more valuable.

With these savings, the pilot who earns more earlier can afford to retire or go part-time sooner.

A question to consider is would you prefer to spend the end of your career at a lo-co dropped down to 50% having banked the cash already, or be on a 900/750hr BA/VS long haul roster for your whole time, with both having the same retirement outcome.
Completely agree, though I would add that the lower company contributions at the LoCo (50 % less in some cases) results in a lower company contribution even on a command salary, compared to a year 1 FO at BA.

(7% of 108k = 7560, 15.1% of 58k = 8758)

Obviously you can top up the pension contributions yourself but perhaps slightly misleading to suggest that the pension will be bigger at some LoCos vs BA.

Cheers

EDIT: counter to my own argument to keep things equal... obviously there’s the mortgage to pay off too, which would clearly be cleared faster earning more at an earlier point in the career. Do the savings made here equate to the extra pension / higher end salary? Probably have to hire an accountant for that!
Busdriver01 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 19:46
  #5998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 59
These last few posts are exactly what people should be thinking of.
Earning more early on, clearing the mortgage quicker, having disposable to reinvest either property/markets etc something I can hand over to my kids. Plus the option to go part time much earlier.

Joining over 35 how much would a pension at BA bring in at the end of the day? After working 30 years 900 hrs a year.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2019, 23:57
  #5999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: North of the Wall
Posts: 1
Hello everyone,

I've just booked the first day assessment and after a read through the previous comments does anyone have any insight into the SHL verbal reasoning/Maths test or a good place to practice?

PMs are gratefully appreciated any any tips you care to share.

Thanks in advance.
OscarFox is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 12:16
  #6000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 58
Are you going to be full time at pp20+ when the money finally gets good? I certainly cant imagine after 20 years I'll even be medically able to do it. Last summer was the hardest Ive ever been worked and worst I've ever felt. Cant see it getting any easier.
MikeAlpha320 is offline  

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