BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 3
From: United Kingdom
this is not France, so BALPA cannot call for e.g. a wildcat strike or selective withdrawal of training to stymie the company’s recruiting plans?
I don't work in aviation (unfortunately) but I know that if my company decided to make all new graduates pay upfront for their own training, they'd a) have no applicants and b) cause a riot amongst current staff. Why the same logic doesn't apply in the airlines is beyond me.
Last edited by ManUtd1999; 4th March 2019 at 21:03.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
How do you call a strike for pilots that haven’t joined the company yet? Once they sign on the dotted line and accept the t&c’s, including the 18k fee, how do you justify industrial action for something the NEP has just accepted? If BA charged existing pilots for the type rating I could see legally justifiable motive for I.A. In short, caveat emptor.
‘Incidentally, with the 5 year type freeze, arguably pilots are paying for their type rating indirectly.
‘Incidentally, with the 5 year type freeze, arguably pilots are paying for their type rating indirectly.
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
Man Utd - agreed. Surprising how most are so quick to throw hands up and say nothing can be done. If a ballot for industrial action were to be called on this issue along with other outstanding issues it could be quickly sorted. Talk of wildcat strikes or mass sickouts a la France is a hysterical comparison. Work to rule over peak summer period anybody?
Sadly is doesn’t sound like the will is there to resolve this issue and BA wil take the chisel and chip away at something else next. This profession is being hugely let down by the “I’m alright Jack” attitude.
Sadly is doesn’t sound like the will is there to resolve this issue and BA wil take the chisel and chip away at something else next. This profession is being hugely let down by the “I’m alright Jack” attitude.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
ManU, so rioting aside, what else would you and your fellow staff colleagues do to protect the T&C’s of people that haven’t yet signed on the dotted line and therefore don’t have T&C’s to protect?
There seem to be a lot of key board warriors on pprune nowadays. I’d be interested to know the % of them that have put an X on a strike ballot and how many have actually walked.
There seem to be a lot of key board warriors on pprune nowadays. I’d be interested to know the % of them that have put an X on a strike ballot and how many have actually walked.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 204
Likes: 13
From: UK
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
There is a similar problem with the work to rule idea (plus it is very difficult to remain cohesive since it is easy for a company to pressure individuals) which is why the three Unions involved at BA seem to be headed in a particular direction.
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
There are over 4000 pilots in BA? If BALPA balloted on a work to rule you would always have the social media heroes and the like doing their own thing. But you would have a significant majority working to rule. Don’t underestimate the impact that can have on a company’s bottom line.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
There are over 4000 pilots in BA? If BALPA balloted on a work to rule you would always have the social media heroes and the like doing their own thing. But you would have a significant majority working to rule. Don’t underestimate the impact that can have on a company’s bottom line.
Now....back to the new qualified pilot scheme...looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..so no doubt many outside BA also see it as a good thing.....which brings into play (again) the point that BALPA campaiging against this scheme would be used by some to demonstrate how out of touch “we” are with those that want to join the industry as pilots.
Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work.
Last edited by wiggy; 5th March 2019 at 07:43.
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
TBH over the years the Reps, former lot or this current tranche, have always maintained a work to rule would be ineffective...define “work to rule for” starters..even issuing a call for people not to volunteer has it’s risks....If you have the chance when next in T5 grab a passing rep and ask about this, it is interesting...and TBH amongst other things it gives you a bit of a depressing insight into human nature, (well, some people’s nature).
Now....back to the new qualified pilot scheme...looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..so no doubt many outside BA also see it as a good thing.....which brings into play (again) the point that BALPA campaiging against this scheme would be used by some to demonstrate how out of touch “we” are with those that want to join the industry as pilots.
Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work.
As I outlined above make it a multi issue campaign. Take your pick. Yes there are individuals who will disregard results of a ballot. Even if just 50% of the body adhered to a work to rule then the leverage created would be significant. The alternative is to do nothing and watch the chisel continue to chip away at t and c.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: uk
Looking at what might be coming down the road later this year at BA I’ll certainly go with the Union, but IMHO running a single issue campaign over the new entrant scheme is simply a non starter and is not going to work.
[/QUOTE]What might be be coming later this year Wiggy? Being a junior 320 skipper, I find it hard to believe this gig can actually get any worse??
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
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From: The Winchester
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 321
Likes: 3
From: United Kingdom
looking at Yammer rightly or wrongly there are some non-flight Ops employees with relatives wanting to get into BA who see the new scheme as a good thing (somebody in the family can obviously afford the 18k)..
More seriously, I'm not denying that opening up BA to modular cadets is generally a good thing. I just wish they hadn't done it in a way which discriminates based on financial background. BA used to be one of the few airlines who thought talent was more important than the abiity to pay. This and the last version of the cadet scheme would suggest they now think otherwise. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and the recruitment team will manage to get an improvement in the future, but that seems unlikely.
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: UK
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 53
From: The Dirty South
I just wish they hadn't done it in a way which discriminates based on financial background. BA used to be one of the few airlines who thought talent was more important than the abiity to pay. This and the last version of the cadet scheme would suggest they now think otherwise.
B.A. Management should come up with a catchy name for the £18K course. Perhaps ‘Return of the Nigels’ would work ? Or, ‘Revenge of the Nigels’. ‘Klaus’s M.O.’ would only make sense to a small number of people, and it’s not very catchy.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 18
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From: Straight Outta Compton
The other problem with Work To Rule at BA is... what's the rule? The psychedelic maze that is Bid Line Rules (BLR) is very hard to navigate without taking a wrong turn. Individuals would be exposing themselves to dismissal far too easily.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
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From: The Winchester