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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 23rd Feb 2019, 03:01
  #5981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: No where near home!
Posts: 40
Has anyone been fortunate enough to have been offered both long and short haul when called? For example 320 LGW or 777. Both would have advantages in terms of career and lifestyle so would be a toss up between the two. Been on longhaul in current job which I enjoy however have a young family and the fatigue can get pretty bad. At BA Itís a discussion regarding 20 years to command on longhaul, being away a lot over most wknds compared to shorthaul out of LGW which as I understand it is not as hectic as LHR and offers more potential time at home whilst career wise getting really competent on the aircraft and a possible early command. Thoughts?!
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 06:26
  #5982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,135
Has anyone been fortunate enough to have been offered both long and short haul when called? For example 320 LGW or 777
Not sure if that happens, be interesting to know.

Anyhow while we wait for an answer - I assume you realise that by accepting the 777 position you are not locking yourself out of shorthaul and/or LGW forever?

As it stands at the moment you could join on Longhaul, learn about the reality of the “BA way” from the inside, and then at the end of you engagement freeze if you still really desire a LGW 320 position you could bid to move, probably direct into the Left seat by way of a command conversion.

Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Feb 2019 at 06:39.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 06:33
  #5983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: No where near home!
Posts: 40
Good point Wiggy, thanks.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 11:01
  #5984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 23
My Recommendation? Don't go to BA period; LH or SH they are both equally crappy compared to just about any other semi reputable airline out there. BA at this point is nothing more than a Legacy Low Cost Airline with worse TC's than the actual Low Cost Airlines...
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:09
  #5985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Doppio View Post
My Recommendation? Don't go to BA period; LH or SH they are both equally crappy compared to just about any other semi reputable airline out there. BA at this point is nothing more than a Legacy Low Cost Airline with worse TC's than the actual Low Cost Airlines...
Which are these low cost airlines with better Ts&Cs exactly? I see some merit to the EZY arguement but I can't think of a single other one with comparable terms. Have you ever worked for a LOCO - the headline figures re money tend to be misleading. I'm not saying things couldnt be better at BA but I think its unfair to put off prospective joiners with false information.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 12:55
  #5986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Age: 45
Posts: 208
Jet2? Time to Command quick with the right experience, basic of £106k as opposed to the £75k at BA as a year 2 or 3 Captain. Jet2 annual around 600-700 hours, BA 850+

BA have fallen behind I'm afraid, and I see recruitment being difficult for them without some changes...
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 14:29
  #5987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: columbo and the city
Age: 36
Posts: 34
even Ryanair, dare i say it.

20k command upgrade bonus.

125k for 800 hours.

Plus many downsides too
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 15:48
  #5988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 23
No LoCo (or any other airline for that matter) has 21 days of consecutive SBY periods several times a year, instead they do offer a fixed roster pattern.
Pensions are the same pretty much all over ever since BARP became the norm, but yet LoCo's offer so much more money from day 1 that BA pilots on a 34(!) year payscale will NEVER catch up on career earnings.
So I guess the only thing BA does have in it's favour is Staff Travel; if you still have the energy left to want to take advantage of that after doing 90+ hour months...

Last edited by Doppio; 23rd Feb 2019 at 16:12.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 15:50
  #5989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: A castle in the sky
Posts: 15
Ryanair have been public enemy number 1 on this forum for a decade or more. Many view them as the instigators of the rot in the industry.

It's amazing that in 2019 one has to consider Ryanair as an alternative to a career at BA; that's the real choice those of us outside BA are faced with!

The optimists will say things are finally improving at Ryanair, the pessimists will say that BA dropped the ball. I'm not sure who is right, but it is what it is as they say.

Last edited by GE115b; 23rd Feb 2019 at 16:04.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 15:56
  #5990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by clvf88 View Post
Which are these low cost airlines with better Ts&Cs exactly? I see some merit to the EZY arguement but I can't think of a single other one with comparable terms. Have you ever worked for a LOCO - the headline figures re money tend to be misleading. I'm not saying things couldnt be better at BA but I think its unfair to put off prospective joiners with false information.
In answer to your first question; All of them in terms of salary, schedule and total hours flown.

In answer to your second; I've left BA for Ryanair, literally doubling my salary and getting my health and family life back in the process.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 16:06
  #5991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by GE115b View Post
Ryanair have been public enemy number 1 on this forum for a decade or more. Many view them as the instigators of the rot in the industry,

It's amazing that in 2019 one has to consider Ryanair as an alternative to a career at BA; that's the real choice those of outside BA are faced with!

The optimists will say things are finally improving at Ryanair, the pessimists will say that BA dropped the ball. I'm not sure who is right, but it is what it is as they say.
The rot in the industry was not instigated by any one Company but by the bonus driven Management of all Airlines. And if it hadn't been for the active cooperation of Unions in combination with the silent approval of most senior pilots (who by the way are still showing up to their SIM checks in Aston Martin's) none of this would have come to pass.
BA didn't drop the ball; they ran with it after our senior colleagues did...
The only reason Ryanair is now a better deal than BA is because of concerted strike action by the guys that were here before I came along.

Last edited by Doppio; 23rd Feb 2019 at 16:23.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 16:39
  #5992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kernow
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by rossbaku View Post
I have accepted an offer on to SH, moving from my current employer means that with flying pay and allowances, I'll more than double my salary overnight.

As I'll be bottom of the seniority pile, I am under no illusions that I will take what is given to me and ask no questions. Surely this is the attitude that all new joiners to any job, in any industry should take? Keep your head down and get settled in.

I'll also be commuting which many have said to me will be difficult/frustrating/impossible. Again, I'm aware of the implications of this however the benefits/drawbacks of commuting versus the move and facing the M4/M25 I believe are offset (some may beg to differ here). There are a number of people who commute on SH who I have spoken to and they seem happy with the lifestyle they have.

Would anyone care to shoot me down on the above?
Ignore the negativity on here. You've done tremendously well - congratulations.

And no, I don't work for BA.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 19:16
  #5993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 42
For any potential joiners, remember there are thousands of BA pilots that do not post on this forum. Thatís not to say they are all 100% happy but despite the fall in Tís & Cís of recent years many still find it to be one of the best jobs in the country. Itís all circumstance dependant. Weíve a lot to fight to maintain and try to get back in some cases, but people above making out that Ryanair of all places is now the better option is (for the vast majority) frankly nonsense.

Iíve only been in a few years and itís not perfect, but generally Iím happy, I have taken an early command, live close to my home base (Sussex flying club), fly about 650-700 hours a year and spend a lot of time with my young family. I have a huge variety of options available to me should my circumstances change.

Come in with your eyes open and remember youíre joining a seniority airline towards the later end of a recruitment bulge, but donít base your decision entirely on the unbalanced views above.
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 19:38
  #5994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,135
I can perfectly understand some people aren't happy but from an objective POV I'm struggling with the previous Aston Martin comment TBH...

I know there are one or two, one defo belongs to a very senior ex-manager - not a common or garden senior pilot, but OTOH there are some pretty mundane cars doing the rounds, also one trainer rocks up on a scooter from the vicinity of T4 and I and lots of other arrive on foot or by bus....my car stays at home and it's a Skoda...

You'd certainly have to be pretty brave to routinely leave an Aston in the Crew Car Park whilst away on a trip....
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 20:53
  #5995 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 753
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
but people above making out that Ryanair of all places is now the better option is (for the vast majority) frankly nonsense.
You're probably right- but the fact itís going to take you in the region of another 13 more years to get to what an EZY/RYR Captain makes the moment they upgrade (or join as a DEC) confirms a lot of what was said above. For me that shouldnít be the case...
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Old 23rd Feb 2019, 21:33
  #5996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by VJW View Post


You're probably right- but the fact itís going to take you in the region of another 13 more years to get to what an EZY/RYR Captain makes the moment they upgrade (or join as a DEC) confirms a lot of what was said above. For me that shouldnít be the case...

As a whole the industry is on its knees. Most airlines working to the limits. TP operator here I smashed out 96hrs 4 sectors everyday over a 30 day period 200 duty hrs.
BA captain pay is terrible should be 100k starting minimum and for someone like myself mid 30s itís making less and less sense. I donít want to be working until 65. All the captains I have flown with over 60 have all said aviation is hard work over 60 smashing out 900hrs. I enjoy work at the moment but need an exit plan and that means earning money to reinvest.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:04
  #5997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 42
The discussion on pay has been had time and time again and if youíre taking command in the first 3 4 or even 5 years agreed itís not good enough, especially compared with the likes of EZY/RYR, who management seem so keen to compare us in other ways to.

However...taking early command is a conscious decision, made with all of the facts. With flight and duty pay included it is about 100k. That will continue upwards on a (yes long) 34 point pay scale, combined with a considerable pension pot projected from that early command Iíd say you might be doing something wrong if you canít plan to retire by 60.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 07:42
  #5998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
The discussion on pay has been had time and time again and if youíre taking command in the first 3 4 or even 5 years agreed itís not good enough, especially compared with the likes of EZY/RYR, who management seem so keen to compare us in other ways to.

However...taking early command is a conscious decision, made with all of the facts. With flight and duty pay included it is about 100k. That will continue upwards on a (yes long) 34 point pay scale, combined with a considerable pension pot projected from that early command Iíd say you might be doing something wrong if you canít plan to retire by 60.
Flybe basic TP Captain is only a couple of K off Captain at BA at the start!!!!

Retire at 60? Depends when you start plus loads of other factors. Having seen my parents pension lose 80% value through no fault of there own I would never trust any pension. Even final salary Police pensions have been targeted.
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 07:46
  #5999 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 753
Originally Posted by JulietSierra6 View Post
The discussion on pay has been had time and time again and if youíre taking command in the first 3 4 or even 5 years agreed itís not good enough
Eveything on this thread has been talked about time and time and time again. Have to say though youíre sugar coating it to the exteme if you think or are trying to suggest the package is beginning to break even after 5 years. Itís 14 years before a BA Captain earns what an Ezy one does. Iíve done the numbers having turned down BA787 last year (for more reasons than just money of course. For me at 35 hrs of age then and with kids who werenít born when I passed the numbers and lifestyle no longer worked).

Sugar coat what you want but itís not only people who took Ďearlyí commands that are paid less. Have a look at a 14 year BA 320 captain and heíll be on less than what EZY paid me on the day I started ...
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Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:11
  #6000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 42
Iím not sugar coating anything. I feel Iíve been fairly balanced. If the finances donít add up, as youíve done, simple, donít join. For many itís about a lot more than £, which in many respects BA does still offer. I joined when I was in my mid twenties and thatíll of course have a bearing on how you view things.

Going to bow out there as weíve both agreed itís just re hashing old ground. Wish you the best at EZY.

AIMINGHIGH, we know each other personally so happy to chat about things any time. If anyone else is interested in facts of BA SH, warts and all, from a LGW perspective, PM me.
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