BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
In BA, Date of Joining is key. Don't get hung up on waiting for a particular fleet as over your remaining career, your seniority number is everything.
Your lifestyle will depend on relative seniority within the fleet. I believe you get full fleet change bidding rights after the first five years.
Hope this helps
Your lifestyle will depend on relative seniority within the fleet. I believe you get full fleet change bidding rights after the first five years.
Hope this helps
Also bear in mind that some of the people posting here have never experienced BA short haul in its current form, especially when junior (full EASA, JSS optimised, bi-monthly reserve, etc) so have no idea what they're recommending, or how appalling it really is. The simple fact is that the way BA rosters are now engineered, your roster is likely to be pretty awful wherever you start. Yes, seniority may increase marginally quicker on short haul than it would on long haul, but if you're still spending over double the time in uniform, does that seniority really equate to a better lifestyle?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
I’m certain there is a lot of truth in that but nevertheless if somebody asks you:
“should I join BA today because I have been offered a Short Haul a slot, or wait until a Long Haul Offer comes, (delay undetermined)”
what would you recommend?
“should I join BA today because I have been offered a Short Haul a slot, or wait until a Long Haul Offer comes, (delay undetermined)”
what would you recommend?
Joined: Feb 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 154
Likes: 7
From: London
Seniority is important, but I'm not sure I agree with this any more. Recruitment onto LH and SH fleets is almost on a par at the moment. I would question the benefit of taking SH over LH while that is the case and, moreover, projects to be the case for some time yet - especially when the tradeoff is 5 years of your life for what will invariably only be a fractional increase in seniority.
Also bear in mind that some of the people posting here have never experienced BA short haul in its current form, especially when junior (full EASA, JSS optimised, bi-monthly reserve, etc) so have no idea what they're recommending, or how appalling it really is. The simple fact is that the way BA rosters are now engineered, your roster is likely to be pretty awful wherever you start. Yes, seniority may increase marginally quicker on short haul than it would on long haul, but if you're still spending over double the time in uniform, does that seniority really equate to a better lifestyle?
Also bear in mind that some of the people posting here have never experienced BA short haul in its current form, especially when junior (full EASA, JSS optimised, bi-monthly reserve, etc) so have no idea what they're recommending, or how appalling it really is. The simple fact is that the way BA rosters are now engineered, your roster is likely to be pretty awful wherever you start. Yes, seniority may increase marginally quicker on short haul than it would on long haul, but if you're still spending over double the time in uniform, does that seniority really equate to a better lifestyle?
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
or, enjoy longhaul with its benefits for 5-10, then take SH command with seniority, or go SH LGW command with a lot of relative seniority on fleet and have the same improved lifestyle and salary?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: UK
The job is still ok, the people I work with are really nice, the cockpit gradient very shallow due to experience, and the lifestyle definitely suits some. Definitely some good points, and things get better slowly over time, unless more attacks on Ts and Cs by management. Don't expect a land of milk and honey though, and do your due diligence.
Lots of senior people commenting about how BA is still great - and for them I'm sure it is, and they are being honest. For new joiners, not so much, it has changed markedly in the last 20 years, and hugely in the last 5 years. Caveat emptor.
Last edited by I'm Off!; 16th February 2019 at 14:43.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: WILTSHIRE
No, it's not. 34PP Pay in the first few years is not 'amazing', it is poor by comparison (LH, Air France, KLM) and not really enough to by a house in the South East to house your family, large enough that you don't need to move again 2 years later, paying another load of stamp duty and moving expenses. In the past many gave up Commands or potential Commands to come to BA (I did), but no more I think. Huge salary cut to join BA, and you'll never make anything close to the difference back. JSS, costs flat, Management attitude and culture driving constant savings despite making nearly £2bn in profit, low pay, 900 hours etc. I'm afraid the Ts and Cs are not market leading for Junior pilots, they are not even competitive. Compare LHS on SH at 2, 3, 4, 5 years seniority, compared to a Command at eJ, Ryanair, Jet2 etc? 900 hours, no fixed roster, bottom of the pile on JSS and doing all this for just over £70k? Compared to £110k, 115k or 106k basic? DECs? Don't think many would apply for those Ts and Cs.
The job is still ok, the people I work with are really nice, the cockpit gradient very shallow due to experience, and the lifestyle definitely suits some. Definitely some good points, and things get better slowly over time, unless more attacks on Ts and Cs by management. Don't expect a land of milk and honey though, and do your due diligence.
Lots of senior people commenting about how BA is still great - and for them I'm sure it is, and they are being honest. For new joiners, not so much, it has changed markedly in the last 20 years, and hugely in the last 5 years. Caveat emptor.
The job is still ok, the people I work with are really nice, the cockpit gradient very shallow due to experience, and the lifestyle definitely suits some. Definitely some good points, and things get better slowly over time, unless more attacks on Ts and Cs by management. Don't expect a land of milk and honey though, and do your due diligence.
Lots of senior people commenting about how BA is still great - and for them I'm sure it is, and they are being honest. For new joiners, not so much, it has changed markedly in the last 20 years, and hugely in the last 5 years. Caveat emptor.
I think the rest of " I'm Offs" post is spot on
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: The Home of the Gnomes
If you’re coming from one of the bottom-feeders, same answer.
If you’re coming from Ryanair or Easy (or equivalent) LHS, I wouldn’t bother coming at all unless you really want Longhaul.
If you’re coming from Ryanair or Easy (or equivalent) RHS, only come for longhaul or stay where you are and go LHS.
If you’re coming from VS or longhaul charter RHS, see whether your time to a longhaul command is any better (and you’d better like shorthaul in the meantime).
If you’re coming from VS or longhaul charter LHS, you’re barking.
Last edited by Tay Cough; 15th February 2019 at 16:46.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
And it’s pointless comparing with KLM and lufty, the brexiteers have seen to that.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
Likes: 9
From: UK
Tay Cough has kindly answered your question though and I wouldn't change a word. The only (to emphasise again, ONLY) reason to join BA now is the fact it is a stable and secure long haul airline, arguably the only one in the UK. What scares me here is the speed and extent to which things have deteriorated, aided no doubt by a union which has lived in BA's pocket and which is crumbling and losing support by the day.
Unfortunately I've seen this decline before in a previous airline. Management desperate to shaft us, threshold eventually reached, and a majority strike vote the result. Sadly that unity doesn't exist at BA - we're all doing different jobs (PP24/34, SH/LH, junior/senior, LGW/LHR). It'll get a lot worse before people start to push back here.
Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: between 20 & 30 000'
years ago, I lamented the fact that people were taking awful contracts just to get into a shiny jet, the result, I thought, would be the reduction of legacy terms. Is this possibly proof of this?
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 724
Likes: 24
From: UK
Sadly that unity doesn't exist at BA - we're all doing different jobs (PP24/34, SH/LH, junior/senior, LGW/LHR). It'll get a lot worse before people start to push back here.
Its very easy to blame Balpa - about as easy as not having any interest in anything that doesn’t affect you, like BARP, like PP34, like the demise of BA SH as a sustainable career choice.
We won’t go on strike because we have no unity left. I believe in the past we had some. We must have, as I joined at the beginning of the current decade and was impressed at what my predecessors had preserved for my generation of new joiners. I can’t say I’d join today and think the same.
All IMHO, and I’m sure some senior folk will be along to deride such a view of the BA pilot workforce, but I’m afraid many of my colleagues need to wake up and glance beyond the end of their nose. Things can and will get a lot worse if we don’t find some way of pulling together in the same direction - I really hope we are finally at that point.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: The Home of the Gnomes
A fair few of the senior people you’re referring to have children who are new entrants and they’re well aware of the differences between the contracts.
While there may be some vociferous senior people regarding future industrial action, if the junior don’t join in, it’s not going to get any better for them is it?
While there may be some vociferous senior people regarding future industrial action, if the junior don’t join in, it’s not going to get any better for them is it?
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
We won’t go on strike because we have no unity left. I believe in the past we had some. We must have, as I joined at the beginning of the current decade and was impressed at what my predecessors had preserved for my generation of new joiners. I can’t say I’d join today and think the same.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
Hi all,
Hope everyone had a good Christmas and didn’t work too hard!
I did my interview / group ex stage mid November, received the “please book your sim assessment” email shortly after but still yet to have any dates populated on the careers website. Don't suppose anyone knows if they will be releasing dates soon or have they forgotten about me? 🙈
Many thanks!
Hope everyone had a good Christmas and didn’t work too hard!
I did my interview / group ex stage mid November, received the “please book your sim assessment” email shortly after but still yet to have any dates populated on the careers website. Don't suppose anyone knows if they will be releasing dates soon or have they forgotten about me? 🙈
Many thanks!
Any chance you could give me some info on what stage 2 looks like or how I could prepare for it? I am supposed to attend very soon.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
Hi!
I have my stage 1 and 2 assessment the 27th of FEB. I was hoping maybe someone can help me out by telling me some more about the assessments or push me in the right diretion to find more information.
So far i have seen that i need to brush up my math skills and that the group assessment can be anything out of a 100 different scenario's. So perhaps someone could tell me something more about the interview? like what was their focus on? what kind of questions can i expect? or pretty much anyting you like to share.
Would be very much appreciated! please feel free to pm me.
Cheers,
Greyhames
I have my stage 1 and 2 assessment the 27th of FEB. I was hoping maybe someone can help me out by telling me some more about the assessments or push me in the right diretion to find more information.
So far i have seen that i need to brush up my math skills and that the group assessment can be anything out of a 100 different scenario's. So perhaps someone could tell me something more about the interview? like what was their focus on? what kind of questions can i expect? or pretty much anyting you like to share.
Would be very much appreciated! please feel free to pm me.
Cheers,
Greyhames
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 468
Likes: 3
From: London
Yes because KL and LH are just stuffed to the gills with brits, right? Strip our former KLMuk crews and the numbers I'm sure will be tiny. Did brexit 'steal the future' of those wanting to go to KL or LH from the UK? Probably. Was this number very small? Probably. Will I lose any sleep over that? Probably not.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Does anyone know how long it takes for them to reply after the Stage 1/2 stage? I did this recently and haven't heard anything... i heard rumour some time ago that a selection team meet each Friday?
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
