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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 25th Jan 2020, 10:43
  #6861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by kookiesandkreme View Post
Did you get a start date at all?
Yes I have a start date now - was swimming for around 7 months in total.
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Old 30th Jan 2020, 10:51
  #6862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,504
Whilst I am unaware of the criteria that are used to determine if they can shorten a type rating course based on previous experience, those with widebody experience will probably be earmarked for a widebody type from the outset. This would reduce the availability of widebody courses for those without experience and who may be hoping for a course.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 19:32
  #6863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere cold
Posts: 35
Would any recent SH joiners be able to PM me some sample rosters they are working please. Received an offer and weighing up the pros and cons.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 23:13
  #6864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: south pole
Posts: 11
How long do you have to decide whether to accept or not?
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 09:22
  #6865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Falling_Penguin View Post
Would any recent SH joiners be able to PM me some sample rosters they are working please. Received an offer and weighing up the pros and cons.
I can understand your question and it must be hard to weighing up the pro and cons. Before joining BA a while ago now I only worked for airlines were on Roster day you got given a computer generated roster and the only limited control you had on the roster was the ability to place a few requested days off on it every month.

Rosters in BA are completely different to what you probably experienced before. They are a very personal thing since we can put so many preferences into the system. Sharing a junior roster would therefor not be of any use since you are most likely unable to find out what the owner (once the roster is published in BA you become the owner of your roster, it therefor doesn't change anymore and is pretty much written in concrete, on average I had 1 roster change every other year) their rostering preferences are.

For example I'm relatively senior on SH and if you look at my roster you would probably be disgusted, I work pretty much every weekend. For me on the other hand weekends are not important and preventing them is not something I put in my preferences. The same goes for consecutive days off, early/lates, tours/daytrips, destinations, etc., etc.

With regards to SH rosters expect to have limited control on your roster the first year. If you want one weekend off and that is your only preference you probably get it. If you want a weekend off, LIS night stops, lates and only three day tours you will fail until you get around 50% seniority. At the current rate of recruitment getting to 50% seniority should take you about 2-3 years. What I'm trying to say with the previous example is the more senior you get the more picky you can get with your preferences till the point were you are no 1 on the list were you litterly write your own roster.

On LH you get the same, with the difference being that every unfrozen pilot who joined the company before you once they move to your LH fleet will slot in more senior to you. To get to 50% seniority on LH could therefore easily take up to 8-10 years.

Last edited by Jumbo2; 8th Feb 2020 at 12:10.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 10:46
  #6866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,077
Originally Posted by Jumbo2 View Post

On LH you get the same, with the difference being that every unfrozen pilot who joined the company before you once they move to your LH fleet will slot in more senior to you. To get to 50% seniority on LH could therefore easily take up to 8-10 years.
Depends on the luck of the draw. Looking at Priam, Some LH fleets will be seeing unprecedented fleet seniority moves in the next 12 months - bottom feeders moving >20% this year.

Last edited by VinRouge; 8th Feb 2020 at 11:47.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 12:13
  #6867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
Depends on the luck of the draw. Looking at Priam, Some LH fleets will be seeing unprecedented fleet seniority moves in the next 12 months - bottom feeders moving >20% this year.
True, but it will still take 8-10 years before you get to 50% on LH. Most likely you will lose some seniority after you gained some on the LH fleets with lots of SH pilots being un frozen now, we have the 74 fleet about to go into rundown so they will move to other LH fleets and if you join now you are behind a group of around 1500 pilots who joined in the last 5 years.
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 12:23
  #6868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,077
Originally Posted by Jumbo2 View Post
True, but it will still take 8-10 years before you get to 50% on LH. Most likely you will lose some seniority after you gained some on the LH fleets with lots of SH pilots being un frozen now, we have the 74 fleet about to go into rundown so they will move to other LH fleets and if you join now you are behind a group of around 1500 pilots who joined in the last 5 years.
im scheduled to be at 65-68% in 12 months, with less than 2 1/2 in...

Most guys seem to be picking to go to the newer types at the mo, particularly 350 and 787 (not forgetting -10 expansion) as both fleets are turbo junior on the FO list. There are also a lot who are leaving from the upper end, 12-15 years in, who want to grab command before their pensionable benefits get locked out from the changes. 777X is scheduled in too around when, 22-24, so wouldnít mind betting A lot of 747 chaps go that way (shiny new jet)

Unusual times, it wonít continue, but for now Iím not complaining.
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 10:13
  #6869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere cold
Posts: 35
Thumbs up

Jumbo2 - Thanks for the reply, helpful stuff.
Falling_Penguin is online now  
Old 9th Feb 2020, 11:14
  #6870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: U.K.
Posts: 4
VinRouge, I'm sure I've just missed it but what are the pension changes you mention? Ta
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 17:29
  #6871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by Float15 View Post
VinRouge, I'm sure I've just missed it but what are the pension changes you mention? Ta
The closure of the NAPS final salary pension scheme a couple of years back, came with a transition period within which FOs could move to the equivalent captain pay scale for pension purposes. Commands must be obtained by the end of 2023 for this to happen. Many will have initially held out hope for a long haul command, but as 2023 draws closer the more junior ex NAPS FOs will likely give more consideration to taking short haul commands in order to lock in the NAPS pension uplift.
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 19:58
  #6872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: surrey
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
The closure of the NAPS final salary pension scheme a couple of years back, came with a transition period within which FOs could move to the equivalent captain pay scale for pension purposes. Commands must be obtained by the end of 2023 for this to happen. Many will have initially held out hope for a long haul command, but as 2023 draws closer the more junior ex NAPS FOs will likely give more consideration to taking short haul commands in order to lock in the NAPS pension uplift.

Apologies if Iím completely off the ball, but would this apply to a new joiner?
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 21:25
  #6873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,077
Originally Posted by kookiesandkreme View Post
Apologies if Iím completely off the ball, but would this apply to a new joiner?
It doesnít directly, but impacts how quickly you will move up your fleet seniority list if you join Direct Longhaul. Which in turn impacts quality of life.
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 21:42
  #6874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: surrey
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
It doesnít directly, but impacts how quickly you will move up your fleet seniority list if you join Direct Longhaul. Which in turn impacts quality of life.
So final salary pension is dead and gone for new joiners? Sorry I know nothing about the pension scheme!
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 22:36
  #6875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by kookiesandkreme View Post
So final salary pension is dead and gone for new joiners? Sorry I know nothing about the pension scheme!
Final salary pension has been dead and gone for new joiners for well over a decade!
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 22:52
  #6876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: surrey
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
Final salary pension has been dead and gone for new joiners for well over a decade!
haha I thought as much but saw it mentioned and I had a faint hope!
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:42
  #6877 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: U.K.
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
The closure of the NAPS final salary pension scheme a couple of years back, came with a transition period within which FOs could move to the equivalent captain pay scale for pension purposes. Commands must be obtained by the end of 2023 for this to happen. Many will have initially held out hope for a long haul command, but as 2023 draws closer the more junior ex NAPS FOs will likely give more consideration to taking short haul commands in order to lock in the NAPS pension uplift.

Roughly how many people are in that situation? It could have quite a dramatic effect at pushing out the time for SH command?
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 13:12
  #6878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 211
I donít know the numbers, but Iíve heard anecdotally that a fair few of the Long Haul SFOs affected are looking at the type of SH roster they could get if they swapped seats and are deciding to take the pension hit.

Lowest LHR command this year was 3700-ish, which is what, 3 years in? Maybe 4? Gatwick went down to 4000 which is 18 months service. I think if the NAPS people were serious about going to SH those numbers would be higher - but maybe they will be next year.

All rumour & supposition, but thatís what this websites about isnít it?


Last edited by thetimesreader84; 10th Feb 2020 at 17:56.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 14:38
  #6879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 596
Please do not quote me on this but if memory serves me correctly, the figure was approximately 550 NAPS SFOs at the time of the scheme closure. If I had to guess what people are planning, I would say the bottom 100-150 NAPS SFOs will start including short haul commands in their bids for 2021 and 2022.

I know of several more senior non-NAPS SFOs who bid for short haul commands this year because they did not want to be blocked from doing so for the next three years during the predicted NAPS SFO rush.

Last edited by GS-Alpha; 10th Feb 2020 at 14:49.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 17:07
  #6880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,530
Originally Posted by thetimesreader84 View Post
I don’t know the numbers, but I’ve heard anecdotally that a fair few of the Long Haul SFOs affected are looking at the type of SH roster they could get if they swapped seats and are deciding to take the pension hit.
Yep, "they" exist, I've flown with a couple of quite senior SFOs recently who have told me that they are staying put in the RHS until retirement and also explained the logic behind the decision - funnily in both cases it wasn't SH rosters that was the problem, it was the rosters that they would have moving RHS to LHS on Long haul that was the issue..

That said I have absolutely no idea how many more have the same plan across all the fleets.


Last edited by wiggy; 11th Feb 2020 at 10:59. Reason: Removing ambiguity.
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