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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 5th Feb 2019, 07:18
  #5861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,078
Add the fact that many many more people have chosen to go part-time, particularly in short haul, then you have the reasons why recruitment is running. To understand why you’d have to do a year or so of flying in BA SH....

There are more than a 1000 pilots now in BA than there was 7 years ago. The BMI takeover accounts for about 300 of those, the rest recruitment.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 08:28
  #5862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 562
There was a recruitment ban which lasted several years in the early noughties too. NAPS was closed to new BA employees sometime in 2003 and the ban had already been in place for a significant period of time at that point. I remember the BALPA mantra was that they could not legally do anything until the first pilot was recruited without a NAPS pension. I think it was several years until that actually happened, by which time it seems the membership had got used to the idea, and voted to accept BARP for new pilots. I cannot remember how long the recruitment ban lasted, but I would guess close to five years?
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 12:28
  #5863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Hello folks,

Couple of quick questions...

a) I have recently been offered an interview date 2 weeks or so back but whenever I try to click on a date there is nothing there (“No entries so far”). Any top tips for actually getting a foot in the door here?

b) I have c.6000 total with A320, A330/A350 on my licence (despite never flying the A350 but, alas...) . Current on both. To be blunt, knowing what I do I have zero interest in SH at BA. Any idea what fleet I would likely be offered? And, if for example, I was offered the A350, what, if any, is the chances of the old bait and switch before starting onto the A320?

Many thanks in advance 👍🏻

FRYVA is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2019, 13:42
  #5864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 299
A few guys I know have struggled getting an interview date sorted. From what I gather it’s just a case of patiently waiting for slots to open up and keep checking. Frustrating I know.

As for what fleet you might get offered.....being Bus rated doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll use that but would imagine they’ll try to if poss. As I said above, a guy I know is A330/A350 currently and has a start date on the 777. A350 DEP’s are probably a way off yet judging by the internal comms but never say never.

You could literally be offered anything but wouldn’t expect BA to start you on something and then switch you to the 320 on day one. As I said, never say never.

Best of luck with it.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 15:42
  #5865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by FRYVA View Post
Hello folks,

Couple of quick questions...

a) I have recently been offered an interview date 2 weeks or so back but whenever I try to click on a date there is nothing there (“No entries so far”). Any top tips for actually getting a foot in the door here?

b) I have c.6000 total with A320, A330/A350 on my licence (despite never flying the A350 but, alas...) . Current on both. To be blunt, knowing what I do I have zero interest in SH at BA. Any idea what fleet I would likely be offered? And, if for example, I was offered the A350, what, if any, is the chances of the old bait and switch before starting onto the A320?

Many thanks in advance 👍🏻

I would expect you to be offered the A320 with a seniority number of around 4600
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 16:19
  #5866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 67
FRYVA,

I know two people with current 320 ratings, and no Boeing experience, whom have recently started on the 777. It does seem rather hard to predict what fleet you will be offered and seems very dependent on needs at that time (/ day!). This assumes long haul suitability demonstrated in the sim of course.

I'm sure someone will have a contrary story, but I have been told that offers have only ever been changed on a very small number of occasions and this has always been from one LH fleet to another. If you're not interested in SH, personally, I'd not worry about the 'bait and switch' you describe.

Good luck.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 17:34
  #5867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Many thanks for the replies, most informative 👍🏻
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 17:35
  #5868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by FRYVA View Post
Hello folks,

Couple of quick questions...

a) I have recently been offered an interview date 2 weeks or so back but whenever I try to click on a date there is nothing there (“No entries so far”). Any top tips for actually getting a foot in the door here?

b) I have c.6000 total with A320, A330/A350 on my licence (despite never flying the A350 but, alas...) . Current on both. To be blunt, knowing what I do I have zero interest in SH at BA. Any idea what fleet I would likely be offered? And, if for example, I was offered the A350, what, if any, is the chances of the old bait and switch before starting onto the A320?

Many thanks in advance 👍🏻


They choose your suitability for LH/SH depending on how well you do in the Sim.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 19:36
  #5869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 30W
Age: 100
Posts: 121
They choose your suitability for LH/SH depending on how well you do in the Sim.
This assumes long haul suitability demonstrated in the sim of course.
Surely there is only one standard in your initial selection sim. And that would be the BA standard. How do they assess you are suitable for long haul in your selection sim? Sounds like nonsense.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 20:16
  #5870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 379
Some would have you believe those who excel go to LH. Those that just meet the standard go to SH to gain experience. 🤔 sounds like a lot of rubbish to me.

Ex BMI pilots.......there are no more than 180-200 now.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 20:53
  #5871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding View Post




Surely there is only one standard in your initial selection sim. And that would be the BA standard. How do they assess you are suitable for long haul in your selection sim? Sounds like nonsense.
It might be nonsense, but its true.

EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 21:47
  #5872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 30W
Age: 100
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by clvf88 View Post
It might be nonsense, but its true.

EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH.
So, what criteria is used in the sim to determine if someone is suitable for LH or not?

You will require an unfrozen ATPL and I’m guessing 2,000 hours anyway.
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Old 5th Feb 2019, 22:06
  #5873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 774
The short answer is are you likely to get through to the line in absolute minimum time, given that the course is compressed to the absolute legal minimum and your 7th landing on type will be during your final check.

Training capacity is is bursting at the seams, and BA have some very unusual ways of doing things that take time to get used to if you come from somewhere more sensible.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 09:30
  #5874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 44
Long Haul suitability is your ability to effectively demonstrate the transition from your present type to the 767 sim at this time during the assessment.In short how good are your pure handling skills and whether you can cope with just two or three landings in marginal weather on LH type.Used to be in excess of 2000 hours,but assessment has evolved and is the judgement of the assessor,subjective.
Just heard 737 applicant,sim on Monday,777 offered Tuesday. Good luck.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 09:44
  #5875 (permalink)  
AFA
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Phantom4 View Post
Long Haul suitability is your ability to effectively demonstrate the transition from your present type to the 767 sim at this time during the assessment.In short how good are your pure handling skills and whether you can cope with just two or three landings in marginal weather on LH type.Used to be in excess of 2000 hours,but assessment has evolved and is the judgement of the assessor,subjective.
Just heard 737 applicant,sim on Monday,777 offered Tuesday. Good luck.
Does this not lead to the slightly odd situation of current LH pilots being offered SH & all the super current young SH pilots being offered LH slots?
After 18yrs of one or two landings a month on long haul it’s safe to say my pure handling skills were better when I was 19 flying Highlands & Islands in an ATP - so I’d now be sent SH A320 to improve I guess!!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 10:45
  #5876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by clvf88 View Post
It might be nonsense, but its true.

EDIT - To be clear, you get.determined as LH suitable or not. That doesn't mean you'll be a assigned a LH fleet, just that you can be. And it certainly doesn't imply that the 'cream' are all being sent LH.
Long Haul will slowly over the years degrade your skills due to the fact you perform about 1/5th of the sectors you do on Short Haul. Short Haul is a proving ground, where the less experienced get 5 times more exposure to operational decision making, crosswinds, marginal weather (etc the list is long)
The likelihood is once you get put into a LH fleet at BA, you will probably never leave. It is therefore important that LH takes the most experienced DEP's for the wide bodies. So essentially recruitment are saying to anyone who is offered short haul only "You have all the skills but lack the experience" or "You have the experience but the skills need some work"

It's up to the applicant to choose which assessment was made!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:16
  #5877 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,988
Originally Posted by wing man View Post
Anyone know what the current wait time is for people in the hold pool?
its a a very thin puddle
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 14:34
  #5878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds View Post
You could literally be offered anything but wouldn’t expect BA to start you on something and then switch you to the 320 on day one. As I said, never say never.
Merely for illustration, two chaps whom I know well, both with plenty of 4-jet command time, were offered 777 and 747. Then, during their first week with BA, whilst doing induction and generic SEP training, they were suddenly switched to the 767 and A320 respectively! So yes, it does happen.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:26
  #5879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gran Bretaña
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by ETOPS View Post
Not certain that is correct. BA have recruited around 250 new hires every year for some time now. There have also been cadet schemes, on and off, as well.
The combination of expansion against retirements, resignations and medical failures has driven a steady flow - gross employment increasing from 3500 heads 5 years ago to around 4100 today.
I started almost exactly 4 years ago. Looking at the seniority numbers of folk doing conversion courses this month, there have been almost 1000 new starts in that time period, so you're bang on the money!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:52
  #5880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gran Bretaña
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by A340Yumyum View Post


Have you been to see a Dr recently?
;-)
If you think about it, SH LGW is not a bad decision as a new start, depending on where you live and what your priorities are. Mostly day trips, so pretty decent if you live nearby. Relative seniority isn't going to matter so much, and whichever Heathrow fleet you'd be on as a DEP, you'll not be getting weekends off anyway with JSS. No more cushy blind lines at Heathrow.

Anyone joining as a LH DEP is going to be super junior for a very, very long time, unless of course they bid for right seat short haul after a few years! Whether you're towards the bottom of 700 FOs on the 777 or on a small fleet like the 380 (which arguably, though, only has good trips), you're going to stagnate in that position every time a short haul FO with more seniority joins your fleet and leapfrogs you.

How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade?
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