BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 775
I think it’s safe to say that everyone in the DEP holdpool will be able to complete a ZFT course; roughly speaking most of us probably have somewhere between 1000-1500 additional hours since we entered the pool. Those that entered via the shorthaul route without the Longhaul 2000 hour requirement probably all have it now.
I do wonder how many of those that that entered via the long haul route who are now Captains, are keen to drop 30-40% pay to sit at the bottom of BA seniority list- behind the recent FPP/white tail cadets.
I do wonder how many of those that that entered via the long haul route who are now Captains, are keen to drop 30-40% pay to sit at the bottom of BA seniority list- behind the recent FPP/white tail cadets.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 93
I know plenty of people who have left their command to join BA. The calculation involved is, of course, a very personal one. Increasingly though Captains at easyJet and Ryanair are in their mid to late 20's/early 30's. That still gives you a 30+ year career at BA and even a pessimist would acknowledge that some of that is likely to be as a long haul P1.
I acknowledge it is a more balanced decision with the birth of 34 pay points and the expansion of the seniority list. However it's a long term decision and for most people will be about lifestyle as much as money.
Best of luck to those waiting for the call!
I acknowledge it is a more balanced decision with the birth of 34 pay points and the expansion of the seniority list. However it's a long term decision and for most people will be about lifestyle as much as money.
Best of luck to those waiting for the call!
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Out of interest - for these lucky few who have been offered jobs on the 747, how long is it likely to be before they begin to see any reasonable degree of control over their roster?
Anyone going into BA with their eyes open would presumably be expecting to receive the dregs of the flying for a good few years - most of which I assume would also be distributed solely over their weekends. But as their senior SH colleagues also move fleet and slide in above them, seniority for the newbies surely stagnates for quite some time?
Anyone going into BA with their eyes open would presumably be expecting to receive the dregs of the flying for a good few years - most of which I assume would also be distributed solely over their weekends. But as their senior SH colleagues also move fleet and slide in above them, seniority for the newbies surely stagnates for quite some time?
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 709
Anyone joining on the 747 should be aware that not only will they be the most junior pilots on it (hence the Riyadh comments) but they’ll be held back on it until the fleet dies (which may or may not be advantageous - ask some 767 guys for their opinion on that). Roster control is a moot point with only four more months of bidline. After that we’re all on blind lines.
Last edited by RexBanner; 8th Dec 2017 at 05:49.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,358
Roster control is a moot point with only four more months of bidline.
The latest state of play is that the first training “videos”/ training packages were released to the rank and file a few days ago and the grumbles about JSS have started again...I suspect some junior folk are going to be seeing a heck of a lot of one or two ME destinations and perhaps central Africa, and not much else, despite the promises.
It does indeed look increasingly like Blindlines for all with a release date that was later than promised (i.e. overall less notice of monthly rosters than is currently the case for most of us)......
Last edited by wiggy; 8th Dec 2017 at 07:20.
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 370
Posts: 54
There’s no way JSS will be ready for June, so it’ll probably be left until October/November, subject to the email saying they’d leave it for summer if there were still teething issues.
The two most junior 747 FOs have both spent December going across the Atlantic. Denver, Phoenix, Miami, Vegas and Boston. There will be trips to sunny Lagos and the odd detox in the ME. Weekends will be a premium and you won’t get roster control for a long time. You will also develop a mistrust of half-moon glasses and long sleeves, but I believe that to be airline wide.
However, with EASA now the and commuters who want to ‘back to back’ there will always be a demand for the ME and Africa. Let’s try and keep it a little balanced.
The two most junior 747 FOs have both spent December going across the Atlantic. Denver, Phoenix, Miami, Vegas and Boston. There will be trips to sunny Lagos and the odd detox in the ME. Weekends will be a premium and you won’t get roster control for a long time. You will also develop a mistrust of half-moon glasses and long sleeves, but I believe that to be airline wide.
However, with EASA now the and commuters who want to ‘back to back’ there will always be a demand for the ME and Africa. Let’s try and keep it a little balanced.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,358
You will also develop a mistrust of half-moon glasses and long sleeves, but I believe that to be airline wide
As for the shape of current rosters, well whatever shape they are now is a bit irrelevant come June or later.....given the way bidding is going to change it will be interesting to see if the likes of Phoenix, Denver and Vegas get hoovered up by senior preferences come the advent of JSS, rather than dropping through to Blindlines (?seeded??).....we will see...
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 370
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by wiggy
Good grief, haven't seen either of those in years....is it a 744 or Airbus thing?
I agree it does remain to see what JSS brings, and as such then I'm staying put with my fellow flat earth conspirators to keep my seniority for the time being.
I do think a lot of the ME and Africa work does suit commuters due to the +/- 3 hour time difference requirement to back to back work, but how much gets hoovered up isn't clear. I think guys at the bottom of the pile won't get constant rubbish destinations, but they won't get to choose when they go anywhere or where they're going.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 562
I once flew with a Captain who thought he'd flown a really good route check but then had not been given a really good score to reflect it. When pressed for feedback, the Captain in question was told he'd been marked down because his First Officer was wearing a long sleeved shirt! 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 925
I've worn long sleeves on Boeing and Airbus fleets. I don't find I get too much grief about it.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
Congrats to those in the pool that have got courses.
BA have only released start dates for Feb and Mar for those looking to move seats within the company. I guess those hold-poolers who have just got slots are back filling courses where internal candidates cannot be released from their own fleets. I suspect a similar process will happen every few months as the course programme is put together.
One word of warning though to those going to the 747. For the first 5 years in BA you have an engagement freeze which means you are their b***h and they can do with you what they want. As the 747 is due to retire in 2022 there is the danger that you could be directed (forced to go) to the mini-airbus. Its unlikely but it is a possibility. Just a note of caution.
All the best
BA have only released start dates for Feb and Mar for those looking to move seats within the company. I guess those hold-poolers who have just got slots are back filling courses where internal candidates cannot be released from their own fleets. I suspect a similar process will happen every few months as the course programme is put together.
One word of warning though to those going to the 747. For the first 5 years in BA you have an engagement freeze which means you are their b***h and they can do with you what they want. As the 747 is due to retire in 2022 there is the danger that you could be directed (forced to go) to the mini-airbus. Its unlikely but it is a possibility. Just a note of caution.
All the best
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 299
There seems to be a bit of back handed negativity / sniping going on.
These guys have been treading water for well over a year. I only did it for a month or so and had no finger nails left by the end of it so can’t imagine how happy these guys must be right now. Let’s not p*** all over it with “enjoy Riyadh” and “it’s a dying fleet and you’re their b****”. They know all that and as someone that joined a dying fleet, yes it certainly has its downsides but these guys will end up doing lots of east coast stuff as the jumbo runs down. Not so bad is it. And by the time the fleet goes they’ll either have a year left of engagement freeze so will likely stick in an aspirational bid and get what they want (see 767 junior FO postings in PRIAM) or have to go somewhere they don’t necessarily want to be for a year or so. Again, not the end of the world is it.
Many congrats and Merry Xmas to the guys / girls that have received offers. I’m sure you’re grown ups joining with your eyes open.
These guys have been treading water for well over a year. I only did it for a month or so and had no finger nails left by the end of it so can’t imagine how happy these guys must be right now. Let’s not p*** all over it with “enjoy Riyadh” and “it’s a dying fleet and you’re their b****”. They know all that and as someone that joined a dying fleet, yes it certainly has its downsides but these guys will end up doing lots of east coast stuff as the jumbo runs down. Not so bad is it. And by the time the fleet goes they’ll either have a year left of engagement freeze so will likely stick in an aspirational bid and get what they want (see 767 junior FO postings in PRIAM) or have to go somewhere they don’t necessarily want to be for a year or so. Again, not the end of the world is it.
Many congrats and Merry Xmas to the guys / girls that have received offers. I’m sure you’re grown ups joining with your eyes open.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 53
Hear, hear! I personally can’t think of anything more awesome than getting to fly the Queen for a few years before she goes. Try 18 months in the pool and NTR, with a tide of cadets ahead of you - fingernails!! Ha, I’m down to my elbows.
Last edited by PressTheTit; 9th Dec 2017 at 11:23.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,358
Negativity...maybe, perhaps some of it. It might however also be an attempt to cut off, ahead of time, the possibility of numerous threads along the lines “if only I had known, ******* BA etc, I would have stayed at.etc etc..” that appear from time to time on here or on union forum...
I think we all absolutely understand the drive and wish to get onto the MSL, but it is still worth being aware of how events can unfold and how the rules work as a fleet runs down.
I think we all absolutely understand the drive and wish to get onto the MSL, but it is still worth being aware of how events can unfold and how the rules work as a fleet runs down.
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Well spoken 2W2R.
I'm ex-easyJet and after 1.5 year in BA I'm 20% off the bottom on the Airbus. Life is significantly better than it was before. Being junior I quite often get blind lines, which is not always a bad thing. I am only working 14 days in December and that's without using leave.
So far I have done 2 4-sector days in BA. In easyJet I did about 3 a week.
I know most people in the hold pool are waiting for positions on long haul. Being junior on long haul is probably still significantly better than the current jobs most swimmers have at the moment.
Good news for the guys who got start dates. For the ones who don't have start dates yet, stay positive. It is worth waiting for. Good luck everyone and I hope you don't turn down a really good opportunity because of this (very irritating) delay. There are definitely more positives in BA than negatives imo.
I'm ex-easyJet and after 1.5 year in BA I'm 20% off the bottom on the Airbus. Life is significantly better than it was before. Being junior I quite often get blind lines, which is not always a bad thing. I am only working 14 days in December and that's without using leave.
So far I have done 2 4-sector days in BA. In easyJet I did about 3 a week.
I know most people in the hold pool are waiting for positions on long haul. Being junior on long haul is probably still significantly better than the current jobs most swimmers have at the moment.
Good news for the guys who got start dates. For the ones who don't have start dates yet, stay positive. It is worth waiting for. Good luck everyone and I hope you don't turn down a really good opportunity because of this (very irritating) delay. There are definitely more positives in BA than negatives imo.
