BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 724
Likes: 24
From: UK
I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA
And the problem is that BA know this.
Good luck and I hope you get what you want - but only on the present terms and conditions!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 336
Likes: 3
From: somewhere in the middle
And when someone comes and undercuts you for your command, or Long Haul, or Part Time, or whatever your aspiration is? Is that ok, because they are "looking at the bigger picture"? What about those of us who are already rated? Are we shut out because we don't fit in the "bigger picture"?
This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: England
For the record, I find the whole CTC cadet thing extremely distasteful (Oxford MPL even more so). However as long as the rules allow for dangerously low hour pilots to sit in the RHS (and hope that an issue doesn't require any experience to fall back on), then the gravy train will continue.
As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.
I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS £20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.
I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS £20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: North London at last
The more I read on this thread the more I am happy with my decision to stay where I am. BA is heading the same way anyway. Once a beacon holding out against the race to the bottom, it appears they have just joined the race. I will loose the opportunity of long haul in the future but will have had a command many many many years earlier.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: North London at last
And when someone comes and undercuts you for your command, or Long Haul, or Part Time, or whatever your aspiration is? Is that ok, because they are "looking at the bigger picture"? What about those of us who are already rated? Are we shut out because we don't fit in the "bigger picture"?
This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: London
For the record, I find the whole CTC cadet thing extremely distasteful (Oxford MPL even more so). However as long as the rules allow for dangerously low hour pilots to sit in the RHS (and hope that an issue doesn't require any experience to fall back on), then the gravy train will continue.
As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.
I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS £20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.
I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS £20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
And for The record for those of you who jump down our throats for saying the truth. I believe we both are in the hold pool and worked hard to get here.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: The Home of the Gnomes
Hugely disappointing. I'm well accustomed to the 'cost of everything, value of nothing' mentality at my current airline, but how sad to see the same now being applied at BA.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
From: Earth
I'm interested if any of you back in the day were handed a place on a cadet course leading to employment with BA, would you have rejected on moral principle and out of respect to those who were applying via direct entry? I think not ... I look through historical posts through some people in this thread and find a couple from earlier days regarding flight training, the likes of CTC/OAA et al being discussed etc etc ... yet now integrated schools producing cadets are the dark enemy?
Cadet programmes have been on for yonks and as far as I'm aware there is no correlation between them and aircraft crashing ... we don't want FAA 1500hr madness in Europe either so things are fine as they are.
Just to add, the FPP could not have exactly been cheap for BA. They paid the cadets in the region of £45,000+ flying pay, in addition to repaying them £84,000 training costs in the form of £12,000 a year. I'm not sure exactly on the numbers and how it all compares to a DE FO's salary, but unless they start DE guys on something like £65,000/annum it is hard to see how they have really made many savings? Probably some, but surely not enough to make any sort of a dent in the books.
Cadet programmes have been on for yonks and as far as I'm aware there is no correlation between them and aircraft crashing ... we don't want FAA 1500hr madness in Europe either so things are fine as they are.
Just to add, the FPP could not have exactly been cheap for BA. They paid the cadets in the region of £45,000+ flying pay, in addition to repaying them £84,000 training costs in the form of £12,000 a year. I'm not sure exactly on the numbers and how it all compares to a DE FO's salary, but unless they start DE guys on something like £65,000/annum it is hard to see how they have really made many savings? Probably some, but surely not enough to make any sort of a dent in the books.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: FL370
Cadet programmes have been on for yonks and as far as I'm aware there is no correlation between them and aircraft crashing ... we don't want FAA 1500hr madness in Europe either so things are fine as they are fine as they are.
Regarding the '1500hr madness' imposed by the FAA; I'm not sure it's actually all that bad a thing. I flew for a couple of the US regionals for five years. The 1500hr rule was introduced just after I moved over there. In the space of just half a decade the average starting salary of a brand new FO at a regional has TRIPLED from $20,000 per year to $60,000 year. Additionally 'signing' bonuses of up to $25k are being offered as an incentive to join various carriers. In turn money on offer at the 'majors' has also increased exponentially. US pilots are now some of the best paid in the world.
Now I realise our significantly smaller demand for GA flying in Europe means that such a rule would never work here; but don't mistake the impact of the eagerness to get straight into the right hand seat of a jet at any cost as being anything other than detrimental to your future terms and conditions.
Everyone has to start somewhere, we're very lucky to have a great mixture of experience at BA. The opportunity to join will come up again. It's awful the way it has turned out for many this time, and for that you have my sympathy. Unfortunately with BA this isn't the first time and it won't be the last.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: London
I agree that cadets have every right to a chance as DEP. And for sure if was in the position to take that route I would.
I'm just surprised how much the holdpool candidates have been kept in the dark and prehaps lead on abit over the past year and a half.
Very disappointing for us I guess.
I'm just surprised how much the holdpool candidates have been kept in the dark and prehaps lead on abit over the past year and a half.
Very disappointing for us I guess.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
Amazing how many people on here think they're owed a job, even more amazing to see how many are willing to undermine every single one of their future colleagues and lower T&Cs just to 'fly for BA'.
But then again, the most important thing is the selfie hanging out of the flight deck window wearing your hat, trying to prove to all of your fake Facebook friends that your life isn't so miserable.
But then again, the most important thing is the selfie hanging out of the flight deck window wearing your hat, trying to prove to all of your fake Facebook friends that your life isn't so miserable.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 978
Likes: 1
From: In the SIM
Sorry, nothing really to do with the post, but just had a chuckle to myself on reading the pros and cons of experience versus cadets.
I moved seats 18 months ago in Airways and its always an interesting day out with with some of our FPP Legends...
I moved seats 18 months ago in Airways and its always an interesting day out with with some of our FPP Legends...
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: London
Amazing how many people on here think they're owed a job, even more amazing to see how many are willing to undermine every single one of their future colleagues and lower T&Cs just to 'fly for BA'.
But then again, the most important thing is the selfie hanging out of the flight deck window wearing your hat, trying to prove to all of your fake Facebook friends that your life isn't so miserable.
But then again, the most important thing is the selfie hanging out of the flight deck window wearing your hat, trying to prove to all of your fake Facebook friends that your life isn't so miserable.
Abit much. I'll take fake Facebook friends over trolling and being rude on a anonymous forum.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: North London at last
Wow, A bit much.
Says everything really. There was nothing rude about this post unless you do hang out of the flight deck window and post a pic on FB. If you do then you are seriously sad. The point of the post was serious. BA was the pinnacle of commercial flying in the UK. They had a mix of cadet and direct experienced intake. There is a place for cadets and that is healthy. But 100% ? It is clearly done because an a**e wipe accountant has won over on the financial argument.
Personally I will have to accept that a ten year desire to fly my flag is over having finally got into the swim pool. I will just have to make do with my LCC LHS. Reading some of the comments on here I am today not so unhappy about this.
Says everything really. There was nothing rude about this post unless you do hang out of the flight deck window and post a pic on FB. If you do then you are seriously sad. The point of the post was serious. BA was the pinnacle of commercial flying in the UK. They had a mix of cadet and direct experienced intake. There is a place for cadets and that is healthy. But 100% ? It is clearly done because an a**e wipe accountant has won over on the financial argument.
Personally I will have to accept that a ten year desire to fly my flag is over having finally got into the swim pool. I will just have to make do with my LCC LHS. Reading some of the comments on here I am today not so unhappy about this.
