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Old 9th Oct 2016, 12:36
  #3181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,309
nw

However my biggest surprise so far as I've deduced from some of the posts is that BA don't do fixed links....
Is there a reason for this or BA is too big for that to work.
One for a shorthauler to answer but as you can see from the previous comment it's certainly a common complaint (i.e. long duty days). I think the standard answer from the head shed is that the SH /LH tie up with transfer passengers and also slots complicates matters, another theory (well mine anyway) is that over the years no-one has actually stripped the schedules back to the bare essentials and seen if fixed links are possible. Stick in the different industrial agreements for the cabin crew and then chuck in the (BALPA approved) duty rig that doesn't penalise the company financially for producing long duty days and you've got a recipe for long days and the situation 4468 describes..

Anson

Wouldn't disagree with a lot of what you wrote, but as I'm sure you are aware a lot of the angst/frustration is that ( as in many companies) the rate of change is increasing and in BA at least as you know we're increasingly seeing unilateral imposition of rule changes....I'm guessing you'll have live with the consequences longer than I will so I wish you luck down the road.

BTW on the subject of grumbling commuters I think many commuters (I'm one) frustration is the way BA decided to interpret some of the EASA rules when writing them into the Ops manual, it was almost as if they had a "thing" against commuters.

That said one solution is part time, if you can get it.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Oct 2016 at 12:47.
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 12:57
  #3182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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the rate of change is increasing and in BA at least as you know we're increasingly seeing unilateral imposition of rule changes
Yes, hence "for now"!
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 13:22
  #3183 (permalink)  
 
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anson

.......
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 14:49
  #3184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London
Posts: 11
Out of interest, are the bid results out yet? If not, any idea when they are expected?
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 15:09
  #3185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Within the next month or so.
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 16:49
  #3186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
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However my biggest surprise so far as I've deduced from some of the posts is that BA don't do fixed links....
Is there a reason for this or BA is too big for that to work.
Once you have large numbers of crew switching a/c it makes sense to increase the amount of "down time" between flights. That way the crew can be waiting for the inbound aircraft and the next flights won't be delayed due to out of position crew.

As to why changing aircraft is necessary in the first place, no idea.... Surely BA's schedule is fixed enough (and a/c turnarounds short enough) for the aircraft, pilots and cabin crew to all do more or less the same? Just think of the savings in rostering complexity and associated costs...
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 18:30
  #3187 (permalink)  
 
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BTW on the subject of grumbling commuters I think many commuters (I'm one) frustration is the way BA decided to interpret some of the EASA rules when writing them into the Ops manual, it was almost as if they had a "thing" against commuters.
What exactly is this Wiggy - my experience of EASA so far is its pretty black or white. Assume your on about days off after long haul?
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 18:53
  #3188 (permalink)  
 
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Twiglet

I don't want to give the impression I'm always whinging..honestly. Keeping it simple it was felt intially that the company were very resistant to allow the continuation of Flight Crew back to backs under EASA ...now their hands were tied re trip construction but there's a thought they could have been more helpful if there had been a will to help out. Ultimately "commuters" that want back to back to have now learnt the tricks and trips that allow them to operate within the current rule set so it's water under the bridge.

Probably more importantly was the (AFAIK the still untested by disciplinary) argument over BA's interpretation of the rule about the need to be acclimatised for report post days off/leave...something which of course applies to everybody, commuter or not.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Oct 2016 at 19:24.
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 19:17
  #3189 (permalink)  
 
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Man U
the aircraft, pilots and cabin crew to all do more or less the same?
Again one for a short hauler but have a look at 4468's comments about "Gypsy tours"....AFAIK part of the problem on short haul is that legacy cabin crew and flight crew work to very different industrial agreements regarding turn around times, meal breaks, and crew composition across the varients so they often don't do the same days work at all...

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Oct 2016 at 19:28.
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 19:35
  #3190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
EASA has absolutely no basis in common sense. I think everyone accepts that?

However the back to back restrictions may at least have been partially based in a desire to protect folks from themselves? For example, the back to back to back to back to back merchants. Who have commuting/UK income tax issues.

It's also the case that many in BA, don't like back to backs. BA MAY have allowed them, (as they do for cabin crew) had they been given a free hand to impose them on all.

My personal view is that the current arrangements are about right?
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 20:42
  #3191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Thanks guys for the replies as to why BA don't do fixed links. It's hard to think that with the sophistication levels of rostering softwares out there it shouldn't be too hard to achieve.
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Old 10th Oct 2016, 07:06
  #3192 (permalink)  
 
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' Morning all (note to self: must get out more)...


4468

(At the danger of staying off topic, though perhaps relevant as history).

However the back to back restrictions may at least have been partially based in a desire to protect folks from themselves? For example, the back to back to back to back to back merchants. Who have commuting/UK income tax issues.
As you say rightly EASA often makes no sense, the back to backs being a classic example: The "protect folks from themselves", was a popular comment from those who didn't want them/do them (and dare I say it somewhat parent > child in tone) but as somebody else pointed out earlier in the thread some individuals genuinely found a back to back, even across the pond, easier than cross the pond and back, two days off, then stateside again (I certainly found it easier and mea culpa, even I was guilty of b2b2b'ing suitable trips a few times....it's horses for courses). Back to backs are now an option for roster control that has been reduced to pilots due EASA, so be it. Above all I'd certainly agree with you that I wouldn't want them forced on anyone.

If you want a personal take on this from a commuter I just work around the changes and FWIW whilst the change has made commuting slightly more frequent some months it's not a big deal, as for tax "issues"...? Of course a very large number of those described as "commuters" do live in the UK - Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, etc.

Anyhow, all water under the bridge, perhaps for the sake of prospective DEPs we should move on..

n w

Thanks guys for the replies as to why BA don't do fixed links. It's hard to think that with the sophistication levels of rostering softwares out there it shouldn't be too hard to achieve
I think if you saw the various industrial agreements in play you'd probably have a better handle on why even the most sophisticated software would struggle to produce economical fixed links.

Last edited by wiggy; 10th Oct 2016 at 10:03.
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Old 10th Oct 2016, 11:10
  #3193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 236
BA has a lot of connecting traffic onto short haul plus LHR can be subject to delays. You'll often see equipment swaps between the 319, 320 and 321 even up to a few hours before departure as passengers miss connections, aircraft go tech, late inbounds etc. I think BA's reasoning is to keep the aircraft allocations as fluid as possible to try to mitigate delays and optimise seating availability otherwise you'd have a cascading problem. Yes it means longer duty days but that's the nature of the beast. Revenue Management will always sell to a set aircraft type but these can change once the flight enters operational control. Thats one of the advantages of the A320 family - flexibility.

Then of course there's the different union agreements. It's complex!
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Old 10th Oct 2016, 12:12
  #3194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
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Conversely, you will also enjoy the experience of arriving late. (Normality at home base!) Then doing a 'tail to tail' transfer between aircraft and terminals across the campus. To arrive at the next aircraft at ETD +10, with cabin crew there you have never met, passengers all boarded for the past 25 minutes, and a despatcher standing with a load sheet to sign, and itching to close the door!

You then have the joy of explaining to the customers what happened, because they all saw with their own eyes it was YOU and your colleague that were holding up their departure!

It's either boredom, or bedlam. There seems little in between.

Last edited by 4468; 10th Oct 2016 at 14:29.
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Old 10th Oct 2016, 18:54
  #3195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 142
4468,

Boredom, or bedlam - so very true.

The lack of fixed-links (or really long links) on S/H does not cost the company any money (since the last change in how credit was calculated), but it gives the company much more flexibility. As mentioned above (somewhere) it almost offers a firebreak to ensure that crews get back on track. Admittedly, BA did reduce the number and length of these breaks, but it was still rather tedious to have to sit about for 2-3 hours waiting for your next link.

Gypsy tours have been a HUGE annoyance for pilots for as long as I was on the airbus fleet. It is no exaggeration for pilots to do 12 sectors with at least 10 different sets of cabin crew. Another huge bug-bear would also be that often the cabin crew were only doing a single sector out and a single sector back - sometimes even with a lay-over day in between.

Oh the joy to be back on L/H and only have to do one out, time off and one back!!!
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Old 10th Oct 2016, 22:38
  #3196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 3
Nuclear Weapon

I think you have hit an important nail upon its head and to give credit to Wiggy and GS-Apha - a sentiment that has been echoed before.

I think someone said previously in this thread "BA is very easy to join for the wrong reasons". To think about that for a second. Pilots are terrible for dining from the rumour table. There has always been a perception that BA is utopia and the supply to the company has mainly been based off a self feeding association with this idea. Those within BA from the old days had been in so long they did not know otherwise - how bad, or how sometimes it were better elsewhere. That has to be said in balance.

BA now has an unprecedented level of new people joining and these preconceptions are being rent usunder, not least by some recent unprecedented ways in which the company is approaching its obligations on indistrial agreements.

This public airing of introspection is not a bad thing, but a healthy thing, not based on sweeping generalisation that "its BA". So, before joining, strip away any preconceptions, treat it as Joe blogs airlines and do an appraisal.

You will be for the moment well paid - at the top of the uk tree for first officers. You will be relatively secure. You will work for a company that still is slightly Victorian on its interpretation of how to be soft and friendly towards employees (it's working on that one I hear). But you will be working for a company that works you foot to the floor, full octane. No one despite all the posturing can deny that at the moment. There is no escaping that. And do not make the mistake many has made that thinking more money makes for a better coffin. Judge for yourself, no one else. Its your life, no one else's of course. The situation is changing, bare that in mind. Be astute and judge for its merits and warts in honesty and you won't be disappointed. And be aware there are subtle changed that foretell changes no one can know, but has many wondering.

It's a complicated job to assess and not at all a basket place to apply for. It's an all or nothing sort of place. Marmite. I've not had a great impression so far but that's not to say I've lost complete faith already. As said, I'm still working hard to keep my chin up not least because I placed so much on coming here, but I'm no fool and if it stops working for me long term, I will seek plan B.1.2

Last edited by Spookster; 11th Oct 2016 at 22:52.
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Old 21st Oct 2016, 13:10
  #3197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: santiago
Posts: 40
Hi,

Was somebody able to book a simulator slot for November?
I received a email at 1030am and when I logged in at 1300 there were already no slots availbale!
Regards
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Old 21st Oct 2016, 15:45
  #3198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: somewhere hot and sticky
Age: 39
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by angelo26 View Post
Hi,

Was somebody able to book a simulator slot for November?
I received a email at 1030am and when I logged in at 1300 there were already no slots availbale!
Regards
I logged in 45 mins after the email but no slots available 😟
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Old 21st Oct 2016, 16:31
  #3199 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 766
Angelo you REALLY need to call them. I think you passed your day 2 at least a month before me. And I've been in the pool for over a month now...
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Old 21st Oct 2016, 18:14
  #3200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
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Only 5 slots available today, was lucky enough to be on my iPad when the email came in and for one of them to fall on a day off...
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