PAL Pilot Exodus

[kontra]

Right Attitude

Thats the attitude!!!! If you want something, go for it. As long as you know what you are getting yourself into and what to expect.

All the best!!! Let us know how it turns out

[DeltaSix]

Advise

Originally Posted by DrahNa

any good advice D6? salamat

Firstly, go to the other thread "Jobs in the Philippines" and we'll continue there.

Secondly, get more hours - QUICKLY !!!!
Offer a prospective employer anything just to get your hours up...... Example.... offer to wash the car, do his/her office work, work on weekends, marry his daughter, rob a bank , anything just to get your hours up. Get my drift ?

Thirdly, do instructing, charter, parachute dropping, and a combination of others .... and maybe drug smuggling, and gun running too..(just kidding) .... anything that involves flying.....my point is, do not rely on one source, otherwise it will take you forever. Don't make the same mistake that I did. RELIED ON ONE SOURCE.

Just a tip, if you are interested, and you can manage to come here in Australia, I can place you with a skydiving company up in Cairns that will get your hours up quickly.
All you need is 10 hours on the Cessna 210 and maybe progress to Twotters down the track.
They'll get you flying 5-7 times a day maybe seven days a week....ssssshhhh...don't tell anyone I said that. They have a chronic shortage here on pilots for skydiving.

Good luck DrahNa - Contact Departures when airborne, clear for take off...


D6

[teeepee]

malaysia

Originally Posted by DrahNa

I'm serious man hehehe.... i guess if they hire me with 750 tt and let me sit in that plane and even upgrade me later then maybe we'll get even...

Desperate times calls for desperate measure.....

I am very open to any suggestions you guys have... I know you guys have been thru a lot and can give some really good advices.... Please give me some good ones here.... Thank you. PMs are very much welcomed!!! maybe if i keep banging my head enough then maybe I wont even have to go through an interview hehehe (kasi basag na ulo ko, more than sira ) *wink *wink D6 hehehe any good advice D6? salamat

//// try malaysia specifically kota kinabalu/kuching area there is a 135 operator looking for young pilots scan this pprune i think i read someone talking about it/// these places are great for vacationing and flying....

[DrahNa]

Salamat for the replies!

Hey guys thanks a lot for all the help you are doing. These inputs no matter how small you are sharing really helps a lot even though you might think its nothing....


Bless you all... salamat ulit!

[machten]

Originally Posted by Cessna1052

Hi Machten,
I ain't kidding, this is fact. I may be off by few DOLLARS, but definitely not reaching $7000 for those A333 CAPTS(not even $4000). You definitely met an ADMIN pilot, whose mission is to dissiminate false information.

If I remember correctly, Taguboy ata yun last name nya.

Hey Drah Na, do you work for Pac Wings?

[rsajlk]

$7000

If I remember correctly, Taguboy ata yun last name nya


Hi there Dude,,The name is a bit misspelled, however close enough..He's not management,,never was...With Asiana right??? Definately pulling your leg..
Regards to you Mach10..

[DrahNa]

No~

Originally Posted by machten

If I remember correctly, Taguboy ata yun last name nya.

Hey Drah Na, do you work for Pac Wings?

What's Pac Wings?

[semper fi]

Clarify me please.......

Helloooo Gents, please clarify, what's a Taguboy???

[DeltaSix]

Taguboy

I don't think it's a what...it's a who !!!

Funny name, is it contagious ???!!!!..



D6

[semper fi]

tri ?

So a tacuboy is a person who flies for Asiana and is an instructor? wow? he must have a lot of command time and experience from where he came from to be an instructor in a korean airline right?

[DeltaSix]

Hi Cessna1052,

I'm nearly there. About to do my first international flight...
Check your PM. I'll let you know what happens with you know who/what when I get there. Cross my fingers but it's looking good at this time. Just have to bear in mind the do's and don'ts you have listed.


Regards

D6

[Cessna1052]

Originally Posted by DeltaSix

Hi Cessna1052,

I'm nearly there. About to do my first international flight...
Check your PM. I'll let you know what happens with you know who/what when I get there. Cross my fingers but it's looking good at this time. Just have to bear in mind the do's and don'ts you have listed.


Regards

D6

ALL THE BEST

[Soundbarviolatr]

WTFO?

What is up with all these junior guys getting seats on heavy jets? An acquaintance at 400 hours TT got hired to fly as a B747 SO??? Are things THAT desperate out there? And some of these pud knockers have the nerve to even mention about upgrading?? WTF Over??? I am all for mentoring and giving the guy his first shot in the industry but whatever happened to building a solid foundation; flight instructing, banner towing or traffic reporting and refining the basics to build a solid foundation to stand on! Half of these guys don't even know how to operate boots on a BE200 or a CE500?? I am no cool hand luke, but at the experience level these guys are coming in with they can barely keep up flying in the soup in a Cessna and they are given a seat in a heavy? SPAM IN CAN=At less than 1,500 hours TT and 300 hours of MEL, you do not have any business being in a jet, much less a heavy that carries hundreds of lives in your hands. Just because SOs do not operate at critical phases of flights does not mean it's not dangerous. I will never put the lives of my family in these operators with a kid that can't find his own arse when #2 shells out and takes a portion of the cabin along with it...RD alone would prolly leave him eating the crayons he was using on his coloring books.

[Soundbarviolatr]

Spam In A Can

Spam in a can my friend. I, like most of you have been there and appreciated the chance that was given. But I also knew when and where I belong. I am surprised that major airlines that operate that type of equipement have such low requirements -- even the commuters in the states require around 1500 tt with 500-1000 me. I guess its just a different world out there...be that as it may, a Crew position in that capacity has no place for a kid with such limited experience. I have heard of abnormal/emergency situations in cruise that have left some of these SOs mumbling incoherently and rocking back and forth; leaving the jet in a yellow short bus to their happy place while the PF is left flying a heavy jet single pilot. And some fly as FOs?? Do they get to fly live legs too??

We all have seen an effective and experienced Crew and CRM flaw like a well oiled machine in the most demanding of times. And even with a well oiled machine it still does nto guarantee the safe outcome of a situation. I just cannot comprehend how the standards are met by these guys to operate in this type of environment.






[quote=Cessna1052;2834283]

Originally Posted by Soundbarviolatr

What is up with all these junior guys getting seats on heavy jets? An acquaintance at 400 hours TT got hired to fly as a B747 SO??? Are things THAT desperate out there? And some of these pud knockers have the nerve to even mention about upgrading?? WTF Over??? I am all for mentoring and giving the guy his first shot in the industry but whatever happened to building a solid foundation; flight instructing, banner towing or traffic reporting and refining the basics to build a solid foundation to stand on! Half of these guys don't even know how to operate boots on a BE200 or a CE500?? I am no cool hand luke, but at the experience level these guys are coming in with they can barely keep up flying in the soup in a Cessna and they are given a seat in a heavy? SPAM IN CAN=At less than 1,500 hours TT and 300 hours of MEL, you do not have any business being in a jet, much less a heavy that carries hundreds of lives in your hands.

Hi SoundBar,

What to do mate? its been the Airline practice for a long long time. You are only mentioning SOs flying the microphones on the 747s...No harm;i think?! , you'll be shock on what im about to tell you.
National cadets from this airline where i am now flies the A330s as First Officers...FOs. with what? lets say 200hours,a combination of Single engine and Multi. Flying both the Airplane and the Radio...No Harm? i think its pretty dangerous.
BUT what to do? So, i guess we just have to live with it.

Best regards,
C1052

[DeltaSix]

Low hour F/Os

Originally Posted by Soundbarviolatr

What is up with all these junior guys getting seats on heavy jets? An acquaintance at 400 hours TT got hired to fly as a B747 SO???

Yep, it did happen with KAL.
One incident he mentioned, on the way to flight levels they were wondering why the 744 wasn't climbing that well......guess what..... they forgot to retract the flaps.
Another incident the captain was blaming the F/O that at short finals they had no gear down. The F/O replied "you're the captain". He didn't want to correct him..... it's a cultural thing.
I asked if they used checklist and he said "sometimes".... go figure.

Another example, an Indian guy who came to us for multi engine training.
With less than 300 hours TT, nearly sent the poor BE76 in a spin when I asked him to bank left. We are talking about flying in VMC not in the soup.
Couldn't stabilize the approach for landing, and failed to do a simple instrument approach.
My greatest worry was when I've heard that an indian airline accepted him as an F/O in a 737......... 3 weeks after he left us.

There you go......... want more horror stories ?.... I've got more.

D6

[Soundbarviolatr]

Cereal box

How are these SO/FO trained? Are the standards lowered based on seat assignment?? We ALL have had to spend some time in the books and most of us still do!! But unless the standards are just low to begin with, there is no way a 400 hour pilot can comprehend advanced systems or jet operations, much less the SA to place it to use.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for giving a guy a break, afterall someone did it for me! But have them earn their way up the RIGHT way, with a solid foundation to build upon instead of earning it by kissing the arse of a four bar. @ 1,000 hours a well trained pilot in the US is STILL trying to catch up to the performance of a light twin.

I can Xitch all I want but it seems that this IS normal practice. D6 that's pretty disturbing my friend. I am surprised (and somewhat relieved) that there has not been a lot of accidents out that way...Or are they just not publicized? Are there posted min requirements for hire with each operator, and what has been the lowest TT requirement you have seen?



[quote=Cessna1052;2835034]

Originally Posted by Soundbarviolatr

Spam in a can my friend. I, like most of you have been there and appreciated the chance that was given. But I also knew when and where I belong. I am surprised that major airlines that operate that type of equipement have such low requirements --

Originally Posted by Soundbarviolatr

Lets give them a break, in a way they undergone tremendous training as well. Their Qualification wasn't signed and done overnight, and indeed those guys showed exemplary attitude in studying their lessons.
The only problem? their experience logged time, but sooner or later this Young guys will get it, over-exposed themselves and will be the same guys doing the P.A.'s saying " Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking....."



C1052

[Soundbarviolatr]

Delta Connection

Yeah, Im sure thats what the FO of the recent Lexington KY crash was thinking. And these guys had about a 1,500 TT, 500 ME min requirement.

Originally Posted by Cessna1052

We are all caught between Cultural and Communication differences, its where instructing get really hard. Its when CRM comes in and narrows it down.

Lets just say that this Low time flying pilots all around us, joyriding those big shiny jets, are just plainly LUCKY to be there.

For all of us enjoying airplane rides, just make sure you fastened yourself securely. Seatback, relax and enjoy the excitement.

Happy flying guys

[Soundbarviolatr]

Enlightened & Disturbed

Thanks for the info Cessna/D6. Sorry did not mean to hijack the PAL thread -- Just out of curiousity, how much do the junior guys make (PAL and other operators)? And is it liveable by the standards of their domicile?

[DeltaSix]

Renumeration and flight hours

Originally Posted by Soundbarviolatr

Thanks for the info Cessna/D6. Sorry did not mean to hijack the PAL thread -- Just out of curiousity, how much do the junior guys make (PAL and other operators)? And is it liveable by the standards of their domicile?

According to world standards, the pay is well below in comparison to their ovrseas counterparts. And to answer your question, it is liveable and is above average from the normal monthly wage in the country.

The lowest I have seen so far ? UK.... an F/O in a 737-800 with 250 hours in his log book when he was hired ( 25 multi ). He probably has around 2000 turbine hours by this time. And India, 300 hours ( not sure if that is even accurate ) when hired as an F/O in a 734 followed by this fella in KAL at less than 400 TT.
EasyJet in the UK have lowered their requirements for hiring as well. Check their website.

Not mentioning names, but one could barely fly a C152 let alone a light twin and a heavy jet. Scary thought but it is so irresponsible on the part of the airline to hire this guy. I just hope they train him well before they let him loose fully in the right seat. A tight seat belt won't do you any good when one engine quits and could not control the aircraft in a text book assymetric situation.

Why do we even bother ???

D6

[kamikase88]

payscale

Originally Posted by Soundbarviolatr

Thanks for the info Cessna/D6. Sorry did not mean to hijack the PAL thread -- Just out of curiousity, how much do the junior guys make (PAL and other operators)? And is it liveable by the standards of their domicile?

Hi guys!! For your info if we talk about PAL. group 4 level (juniors) can live with their salaqry(700$) if they stay with their parents and take the public transport. He should be single. Minimum wage to survive in MANILA WITH 1 CHILD costs you 1000$ per month. Some guys took the risk and got upgraded due to shortage of pilots. Be prepared to borrow money while on training. Payscale under training 250$!!!! training will take 3 months. So for the guys who are interested joining PAL put lots of pesos in your pocket for the trial period. Good Luck!!!