PAL Pilot Exodus
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the dodo tradition.......
Isn't breeding what it's all about???? You may be an ex dodo but if your momma didn't teach you right, well......................
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Originally Posted by semper fi
Isn't breeding what it's all about???? You may be an ex dodo but if your momma didn't teach you right, well......................
Yes, you're right semper fi...
But I didn't say it's ALL about knowledge, it's dissemination & discipline. These are just a few of the many characteristics of the dodo. Mind you, most of them, if not all, have the breeding you're talking about.
It actually forms part of the initial acceptance process up to and including the training itself...which included, among others, a course on Personal & Business Etiquette as conducted by the respected Ms. Conchitina Sevilla-Bernardo.
Hope this clears some confusion...
...And thanks for your concern...
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Thank God its over!!
The dodo tradition is dead. And good riddens! I have some great memories, but I didn't need to be degraded, abused and belittled to make me the pilot that I am. Sure there is a good point about knowledge and its dissemination, however we would have learnt it without people making us squat or reporting to your upper classmen at midnight or jogging on the spot for an hour. Most people want respect and learning anything including flying is best learnt with respect. Back in my day we didn't pay for our training and the best of the best were chosen to fly with PAL, unfortunately the ones chosen now are the ones who can afford it. Just speak with line captains for the 320 espeically. Those newly upgraded from SO to narrowbody FO. They have 2000 hours of what? Paperwork? And the sleep for half of that in the crew bunks!! What they need are hands on instrument apporaches, actual landings, actual takeoffs or even sim time. Flying the 737 sim every six months is not enough to keep current! So the quality of pilots coming out of AVschool may be good, but they aren't great.
The dodo is extinct and it should stay that way. Other international airlines have dumped this tradition nearly 30 years ago because it doesn't promote good CRM. It would be interesting to hear from other ex PAL pilots that are working outside of PAL and their experiences !
The dodo is extinct and it should stay that way. Other international airlines have dumped this tradition nearly 30 years ago because it doesn't promote good CRM. It would be interesting to hear from other ex PAL pilots that are working outside of PAL and their experiences !
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about CRM.............
well, CRM,,hmmm, that would be a rather alien word in cultures that promote military or ex military styles or codes of conduct. You won't know what CRM is until you leave the nest and live in the real world, sorry to say that. 
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starting a maelstrom...
Hey everyone,
Valid points on all your arguments!
Accidents are not completely attributable to whether a dodo system was in place or not. Previous generations of ab-initio pilots in other airlines/military establishments may have had similarly higher rates (as compared to today) due to the technology at hand. As one old-timer said, those Grummans weren't the easiest planes to fly.
Fact of the matter is that accident rates have gone down vis-a-vis flight rates in the last century by as much as 70-80%. This has been due to improvements in aircraft engines, avionics, aircraft design and of course, CRM.
Most accidents by now are attributed to human factors/error, a point being adressed by CRM programs. The percentage of accidents caused by mechanical or other equipment-related failures has gone down significantly as compared to the ones caused by human error.
But they do happen, unfortunately. It's just the nature of the beast.
So keep it safe everyone!
Valid points on all your arguments!
Accidents are not completely attributable to whether a dodo system was in place or not. Previous generations of ab-initio pilots in other airlines/military establishments may have had similarly higher rates (as compared to today) due to the technology at hand. As one old-timer said, those Grummans weren't the easiest planes to fly.
Fact of the matter is that accident rates have gone down vis-a-vis flight rates in the last century by as much as 70-80%. This has been due to improvements in aircraft engines, avionics, aircraft design and of course, CRM.
Most accidents by now are attributed to human factors/error, a point being adressed by CRM programs. The percentage of accidents caused by mechanical or other equipment-related failures has gone down significantly as compared to the ones caused by human error.
But they do happen, unfortunately. It's just the nature of the beast.
So keep it safe everyone!
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Hi Cessna 1052!
Kudos to you and your attitude. That's right, discipline should be inherent and you showed you could make it on your own without much help. And I couldn't agree more, FOs in other international airlines (like the ones from SQ) can quote you provisions from the page of the book itself!
And the checklist-eating, head-slapping, "you're the absolute worst pilot I've ever flown with" days should indeed be over. No room for that in a professional cockpit.
Though I look back with amusement and just laugh at it and other experiences with my classmates come reunion time. I know, I know, same old stories!
That being said, not everyone comes with the same mindset and attitude as yourself when it comes to training or their career. As planestupid said, trainees in PAL before were chosen by a thorough filtering process wherein we were able to get the cream of the crop. Unfortunately, nowadays the selection process is biased towards those with the ability to pay.
That's not necessarily to imply that those with money will automatically be of lesser intellect or discipline or drive. Only that by making the screening process less "democratic", we seriously limit our talent pool.
Our concern should be that we come up with new pilots, financially able or disabled, who come up to standard in the line with the same general attitude as yourself. Hopefully, we can do this without having to resort to threats or actions.
Why do we want that? So we can export more pilots and continue our world domination!
Straighten Up and Fly Right!
Kudos to you and your attitude. That's right, discipline should be inherent and you showed you could make it on your own without much help. And I couldn't agree more, FOs in other international airlines (like the ones from SQ) can quote you provisions from the page of the book itself!
And the checklist-eating, head-slapping, "you're the absolute worst pilot I've ever flown with" days should indeed be over. No room for that in a professional cockpit.
Though I look back with amusement and just laugh at it and other experiences with my classmates come reunion time. I know, I know, same old stories!
That being said, not everyone comes with the same mindset and attitude as yourself when it comes to training or their career. As planestupid said, trainees in PAL before were chosen by a thorough filtering process wherein we were able to get the cream of the crop. Unfortunately, nowadays the selection process is biased towards those with the ability to pay.
That's not necessarily to imply that those with money will automatically be of lesser intellect or discipline or drive. Only that by making the screening process less "democratic", we seriously limit our talent pool.
Our concern should be that we come up with new pilots, financially able or disabled, who come up to standard in the line with the same general attitude as yourself. Hopefully, we can do this without having to resort to threats or actions.
Why do we want that? So we can export more pilots and continue our world domination!
Straighten Up and Fly Right!
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....about FCOMS...........
You know what all.......All the memorization and knowledge of manuals will not help you land a 200ton metal amalgamation in driving rain and 20+ knot crosswinds, it takes feel and alas, experience to put it down where you need to...........
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There's a hole in the bucket..............
Hello C-152-II
Thank you for your analogy on the subject of experience versus technical knowledge. I agree with you somewhat. As we may or may have not heard the old adage that says
" When you begin your flying career you are given two buckets, one if full of luck and the other is empty. The object here is to finish your career before your luck runs out and you fill the other bucket with experience".
You may wonder what luck has to do with being technically adept. Nothing I guess , you see in my lifetime I have seen the progression of people through the ranks of aviation and many good souls have burned the midnight oil in the search for the holy grail of knowledge and the right stuff. However, life is never fair and these technically adept individuals with loads of experience have been passed in the queue because of rival individual connections to CEO's , heads of training, managers, instructors and the like.
So a little bit of luck would definitely help here, imagine you being slotted for an upgrade and a minor incident could derail all your upgrading plans not to mention your future. When an airline hires you, the first thing ever considered is experience, i.e. logbook time, not your technicall prowess. Technical knowledge is something that can be imbibed later on with a little elbow grease. When you are caught in the middle of a situation that warrants a correct action, you can count on experience to pull you through.
It would be difficult to reach down deep and try to pull a rabbit out of a magician's hat without the rabbit being there. As they say, inexperience always rears it's ugly head. I am not lambasting the inexperienced mind you,
We were all there once, the important thing I guess is to keep learning and
be content in the fact that there will always be people out there with a little something to share with you and not to take it against them but to assimilate the information and put it to good use in the future. That would help fill up the bucket of experience a bit faster.
I hope I am making sense here. Silver linings and Happy Landings........
Thank you for your analogy on the subject of experience versus technical knowledge. I agree with you somewhat. As we may or may have not heard the old adage that says
" When you begin your flying career you are given two buckets, one if full of luck and the other is empty. The object here is to finish your career before your luck runs out and you fill the other bucket with experience".
You may wonder what luck has to do with being technically adept. Nothing I guess , you see in my lifetime I have seen the progression of people through the ranks of aviation and many good souls have burned the midnight oil in the search for the holy grail of knowledge and the right stuff. However, life is never fair and these technically adept individuals with loads of experience have been passed in the queue because of rival individual connections to CEO's , heads of training, managers, instructors and the like.
So a little bit of luck would definitely help here, imagine you being slotted for an upgrade and a minor incident could derail all your upgrading plans not to mention your future. When an airline hires you, the first thing ever considered is experience, i.e. logbook time, not your technicall prowess. Technical knowledge is something that can be imbibed later on with a little elbow grease. When you are caught in the middle of a situation that warrants a correct action, you can count on experience to pull you through.
It would be difficult to reach down deep and try to pull a rabbit out of a magician's hat without the rabbit being there. As they say, inexperience always rears it's ugly head. I am not lambasting the inexperienced mind you,
We were all there once, the important thing I guess is to keep learning and
be content in the fact that there will always be people out there with a little something to share with you and not to take it against them but to assimilate the information and put it to good use in the future. That would help fill up the bucket of experience a bit faster.
I hope I am making sense here. Silver linings and Happy Landings........
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of men and mice.................
I guess everyone is important in his own little way, surely you may not have gotten to where you are today without a little push from your mates.......right OA?
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I am new to this forum and in need of some help. I am a flight instructor in the United States born to filipino parents. Due to the current conditions in the US Aviation industry such as low pay for regional pilots and bankrupt airlines, I wanted to know what my chances were of flying with PAL with all the talks of pilots leaving for overseas carriers. I am still in university but have a year left with all the FAA certification.
I just wanted to inquire about
1 Pilot requirements
2 What I need to do to get in
3 Is it possibble for an American born to fly with PAL
I have an uncle with PAL and an aunt with the ATO. So maybe I think this could help but my uncle is a supervisor with the Technik Maintenance division.
Thanks
I just wanted to inquire about
1 Pilot requirements
2 What I need to do to get in
3 Is it possibble for an American born to fly with PAL
I have an uncle with PAL and an aunt with the ATO. So maybe I think this could help but my uncle is a supervisor with the Technik Maintenance division.
Thanks
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Pre, don't even think about it. You should read starting from pg 1 of this thread and find out for yourself. And your uncle should know better too. I suggest you finish up school, get on with ExpressJet - move to the left seat ASAP and rack up the command time, then try WN B6 FDX or UPS. OR if you really want to fly that shiny big jet...you can always take a few jars of vaseline with u to PI and fly for our beloved national airline.
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what to do...........with pascual7e7
Maybe C1052 can help you with your problem, he seems to know what the ins and outs of flying for a foreign carrier in the Far East like Pal woudl be. bout it C1052, wanna help a newbie out?
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Thanks alot guys for the input. I really appreciate it. It's just I don't want to fly for a US regional carrier for right now. I mean if i can fly a bigger jet overseas at first, then maybe it would be better for the long term for me of getting a job in the US with a reputable carrier such as Continental, American, Delta, or United instead of flying their regional jets for 8 or even 10 years.
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Thanks alot guys for the input. I really appreciate it. It's just I don't want to fly for a US regional carrier for right now. I mean if i can fly a bigger jet overseas at first, then maybe it would be better for the long term for me of getting a job in the US with a reputable carrier such as Continental, American, Delta, or United instead of flying their regional jets for 8 or even 10 years.
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big or small jets????
You know what guys, pas7e7 is in a sort of crossroads, one part of him wants to fly big jets which is natural for young aviators and the prospect of flying baby jets for 10 years does not sit well with him, he has time on his side as of now. You will never amount to anything in the u s of a if you don't toe the line and do your time in the small leagues. You can't just jump into big jets even if you have a gazillion hours, the unions won't let you.
So 7e7, you have all the time in the world, forget the big leagues in the far east , you will waste your life there and realize you should have stayed back home. No widebody pilot ever made it to where he is now without sweating it out in the small stuff in the u s of a. think about it.
nuff said................
So 7e7, you have all the time in the world, forget the big leagues in the far east , you will waste your life there and realize you should have stayed back home. No widebody pilot ever made it to where he is now without sweating it out in the small stuff in the u s of a. think about it.
nuff said................
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Wanna be a PAL pilot :)
Hey guys this is my very first post here so I am hoping for some positive replies
.... I'm not keeping my hopes up though....
About myself: I have about 750 total time, about 26 multi engine, and about 400 FO caravan time. I want to fly for PAL because I wanna be in those big planes. I have read a lot of the postings here and I do realize that it may be a bad move to fly for them but I just really wanna be in that big plane. I have read and stayed up late till 2 am HI std time just to find out whats out there....
ANyways, I may not make sense in what I am trying to say coz I've been up since this morning flying around the island but if anybody has any suggestion on how I can get myself into PAL pls let me know.
P.S I see PAL's plane here in HI once and a while and if anyone here is flying these routes maybe we can hang out and have lunch or something then talk about getting me in I fly inter-
island .....Salamat Po
.... I'm not keeping my hopes up though.... About myself: I have about 750 total time, about 26 multi engine, and about 400 FO caravan time. I want to fly for PAL because I wanna be in those big planes. I have read a lot of the postings here and I do realize that it may be a bad move to fly for them but I just really wanna be in that big plane. I have read and stayed up late till 2 am HI std time
just to find out whats out there.... ANyways, I may not make sense in what I am trying to say coz I've been up since this morning flying around the island but if anybody has any suggestion on how I can get myself into PAL pls let me know.
P.S I see PAL's plane here in HI once and a while and if anyone here is flying these routes maybe we can hang out and have lunch or something then talk about getting me in
I fly inter-island .....Salamat Po
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stay where you are
Hey guys this is my very first post here so I am hoping for some positive replies .... I'm not keeping my hopes up though....
About myself: I have about 750 total time, about 26 multi engine, and about 400 FO caravan time. I want to fly for PAL because I wanna be in those big planes. I have read a lot of the postings here and I do realize that it may be a bad move to fly for them but I just really wanna be in that big plane. I have read and stayed up late till 2 am HI std time just to find out whats out there....
ANyways, I may not make sense in what I am trying to say coz I've been up since this morning flying around the island but if anybody has any suggestion on how I can get myself into PAL pls let me know.
P.S I see PAL's plane here in HI once and a while and if anyone here is flying these routes maybe we can hang out and have lunch or something then talk about getting me in I fly inter-island .....Salamat Po
.... I'm not keeping my hopes up though.... About myself: I have about 750 total time, about 26 multi engine, and about 400 FO caravan time. I want to fly for PAL because I wanna be in those big planes. I have read a lot of the postings here and I do realize that it may be a bad move to fly for them but I just really wanna be in that big plane. I have read and stayed up late till 2 am HI std time
just to find out whats out there.... ANyways, I may not make sense in what I am trying to say coz I've been up since this morning flying around the island but if anybody has any suggestion on how I can get myself into PAL pls let me know.
P.S I see PAL's plane here in HI once and a while and if anyone here is flying these routes maybe we can hang out and have lunch or something then talk about getting me in
I fly inter-island .....Salamat PoJoin Date: Aug 2006
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Thanks for the Replies....
Yea, for now while I am young and broke I think I might be able to manage the low income sitaution. I'd rather be broke now than later....plus with the current aviation situation here in the U.S if I don't try to get in with PAL and get some experience with those big planes I might end up staying broke forever.....that means for the rest of my life!!!!I guess at least if I can get in with PAL now and get that experience then maybe, hopefully that would cut down my "brokeness" in half....
I know staying here and keep on doing what I am doing might sound a lot more better than going to PAL but believe me it is NOT!
Getting a job with Aloha, Hawaiian is not that easy as well. Plus I love planes and I want to fly long routes.I am still young and I want to fly across oceans and I want to take advantage of my current feeling. I don't feel like flying planes for 20 mins T/O to touch down just yet .......one day I might like it but like I said I wanna take advantage of my youghtness and fly across time zones.
For me with a really low time it would take me about maybe 20 years to be in a 747 if they're still be around or 737...and guess what!? when I am there I will be broke and old!----Broke+Old= a really good plan for an OLD man without PERA....I hope some of you guys get the point.....
Please give me your own honest opinion....If you were in my shoes a Dual citizen, low time pilot, wanna live in ASIA to fly,26 yrs old, wanna fly multi engine plane(planes like what PAL operates), what would you do?
I am not talking about the pay but the experience. I know the pay would be really low, way low....but I am not after the pay for now....maybe after 5 years or so....but for now I just want to fly big planes... So if you guys wanna take a good look at my current status and wanna share some of your thoughts then please don't hesistate to voice it out. Just please don't forget to take into consideration my current situation. Would some of you think that my current status and WANTS would qualify for a shot with PAL.
Thanks in advance to all that would send a reply. We all live in this aviation world and what a good feeling it is to know that the people here are experienced and knowledgeable about the situation. Maraming salamat PO!
I know staying here and keep on doing what I am doing might sound a lot more better than going to PAL but believe me it is NOT!
Getting a job with Aloha, Hawaiian is not that easy as well. Plus I love planes and I want to fly long routes.I am still young and I want to fly across oceans and I want to take advantage of my current feeling. I don't feel like flying planes for 20 mins T/O to touch down just yet
.......one day I might like it but like I said I wanna take advantage of my youghtness and fly across time zones. For me with a really low time it would take me about maybe 20 years to be in a 747 if they're still be around or 737...and guess what!? when I am there I will be broke and old!----Broke+Old= a really good plan for an OLD man without PERA....I hope some of you guys get the point.....
Please give me your own honest opinion....If you were in my shoes a Dual citizen, low time pilot, wanna live in ASIA to fly,26 yrs old, wanna fly multi engine plane(planes like what PAL operates), what would you do?
I am not talking about the pay but the experience. I know the pay would be really low, way low....but I am not after the pay for now....maybe after 5 years or so....but for now I just want to fly big planes... So if you guys wanna take a good look at my current status and wanna share some of your thoughts then please don't hesistate to voice it out. Just please don't forget to take into consideration my current situation. Would some of you think that my current status and WANTS would qualify for a shot with PAL.
Thanks in advance to all that would send a reply. We all live in this aviation world and what a good feeling it is to know that the people here are experienced and knowledgeable about the situation. Maraming salamat PO!