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PAL Pilot Exodus

Old 13th Feb 2006, 01:34
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PAL Pilot Exodus

I've heard rumours about pilots at Philippine Airlines getting job offers from Indian Airlines without interviews. Has anyone any info on this drama that is unfolding? Also airlines like Asiana and CAL poaching. What is PAL management doing about this?
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Old 13th Feb 2006, 13:17
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I have an advice to PAL management "INCREASE THE PAY".
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Old 14th Feb 2006, 05:52
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e6b
 
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Thumbs down ATO memo circular 01-06

The Philippine ATO just issued a memo circular for all 135 and 121 certificate holders:
"In the Interest of Safety and National Security, effective immediately, all flight deck crew, particularly pilots and aircraft mechanics are hereby directed to seek clearance from their employers as an additional requirement for the renewal of their licences.
In this connection, all 121 and 135 operators are hereby directed to issue clearance to effect the renewal of your employees' license. Non-issuance of clearance means non-issue of their licennse.
For Strict compliance.
Nilo Jatico / Assitant Secretary"

smells like lucio tan

btw, although hardest hit, the exodus is not only confined to pal but also to cebu pac and air phil....
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Old 15th Feb 2006, 00:04
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"Especially if aircraft start hitting mountains!! Ahem... Cebu Pac!!"

any "pinoy pilot" would know that pal and air phil [moreso pal] have had their fair share of cfit...it's all about who controls the philippine media
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Old 15th Feb 2006, 10:36
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Howdy everyone, I couldn't really have any sympathy for these airlines if they don't pay their pilots what at least the current market price is paying. A friend of mine who is an S/O with the A330 told me what he was getting and I nearly fell off my chair. Way I look at it, they are as qualified as any other pilots in the world.
I guess the economy of the Philippines would have a lot to do to dictate this ( pay ).
Anyway, someone said that they are not getting paid on time or getting paid at all, thus the Exodus to other airlines. Apparently a Malaysian company went to the country a few months ago recruiting pilots from PAL and other sources. So, there you go.... we really couldn't blame them ( pilots )can we for defecting ?

E6b, what brought on this "clearance" to renew their licenses ?

Do you need to renew your license in the Philippines every now and then or do you mean the instrument rating ?
I always thought that the license has no expiry date except what your medical exam would reveal or renewing your IR.

DeltaSix

Last edited by DeltaSix; 16th Feb 2006 at 04:25.
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Old 18th Feb 2006, 07:29
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DeltaSix; here in the Philippines an ATPL has to be renewed every 6 months, CPL/IR every 12. That goes the same for the medical. I guess that means more revenue for the ATO. With this new "clearance" fiasco, if your current employer gets the drop that you have plans of leaving, its possible your license won't get renewed, limiting your chances of seeking employment elsewhere.
Historically pilot pay here has been low, except for a brief period in the early nineties before the big peso devaluation. At that time, ALPAP negotiated a pay scheme that brought pal pilots' pay at par with singapore airlines. Then the devaluation came and screwed everything. A lot of my colleagues have left for better pay/working conditions abroad and i don't blame them. The only thing keeping me here for now is being with my family and friends...

Last edited by e6b; 18th Feb 2006 at 07:51.
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Old 18th Feb 2006, 10:21
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License clearances

E6b, I don't understand why your ATO would impose such an idiotic idea that you need a "clearance" from your employer to renew your license. Your employer should have nothing to do with your ATPL renewal as this is a personal matter. All they should care is if you were able to renew it or not, period. They have got you by the neck here buddy. I guess the only thing you can do is to leave before your license is up for renewal, but then I bet they are imposing such a ridiculous timeframe to file your resignation like 6 months prior just to catch you out? Just a suggestion, convert your license overseas to a US ATP. That should fix that hopefully. IMHO you will have a far better chance of getting a job overseas with a US ATP. I don't think you need to renew it, only the medical.

So, are you with PAL or with another carrier ?

D6
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Old 18th Feb 2006, 14:10
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Originally Posted by DeltaSix
Just a suggestion, convert your license overseas to a US ATP. That should fix that hopefully. IMHO you will have a far better chance of getting a job overseas with a US ATP. I don't think you need to renew it, only the medical.

D6
I don't think it's that easy to convert foreign license to US ATP, especially if a pilot is not a US resident.
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Old 18th Feb 2006, 15:02
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Thanks for the replies guys, my original thread was about our PAL brothers getting a fair deal and what their company is doing about it. But hey... threads morhp!
About PAL, Air Phil and CFIT... I wouldn't know. The Cebu Pac comment was the most celebrated in recent years. Sorry e6b if you were offended.
License conversion around the world is fairly standard. ICAO member states allow conversions fairly easily, generally with an Air Law exam and a flight test. If you have a comprehensive ATPL (ie one where you have to really study for each subject like in Europe, Australia or Malaysia and not one you are given the answers to) the conversion is easy. The US ATP is VERY SIMPLE, the only difficult thing about it is getting clearance from TSA (Transportation Security Administration) due to 911. Otherwise when regulators get your application for a conversion, they get a correspondance (usually a fax) stating that the documents are in order and thats it. It seems like the Filipino regulator is trying to throw a spanner in the works or at least slow down the process. What it means for the Filipino pilot would be to do all the ATP subjects of the prospective country then a flight test if the regulator doesn't give clearance.
If there are any other suggestions... pls post!!
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Old 19th Feb 2006, 03:40
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Pinoy Pilot, to convert to US ATP, you need to pass the FAA written exam which covers 7 subjects, a flight test and an oral exam. The written is piss easy, but don't take the oral test lightly. There are schools that do reviews in Florida for the written exam. You can do it in one day. The flight test might be interesting though if you haven't done any flying in the states, so I would do 10 hours in a light twin just to familiarize yourself if you decide to do it.

The oral will be based on technical questions about the aircraft you fly but it's a killer.

Goodluck to all pinoy pilots, its time PAL realizes your worth.

DeltaSix
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Old 19th Feb 2006, 04:12
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Question

Aren't a high percentage of PAL (Philippine Air Line) pilots scabs (eskirol) from the strike of a couple of years ago, when the then PAL pilots tried to protect their pay from greedy Lucio?
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Old 19th Feb 2006, 06:16
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Kaptin M

The S/O I know isn't one of them.
But, sounds like greedy Lucio is at it again by the looks of it.
Apparently some are not getting paid or their pay is severely delayed.


D6
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Old 21st Feb 2006, 05:27
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Thumbs down hmmm...

what else is new... ATO... Another Tan Office?
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Old 21st Feb 2006, 06:11
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RP losing pilots to foreign airlines

RP losing pilots to foreign airlines
By Rainier Allan Ronda
The Philippine Star 02/06/2006

Pilots of the Philippine Air Force and the country’s three major airlines are joining the exodus of skilled Filipino workers leaving for high-paying jobs abroad.

Many of the pilots are seeking jobs with foreign commercial airlines.

News reports from an international cable news network said India, the second most populous country in the world, is in need of as many as 4,000 pilots to fly the planes of several airlines operating there.

Industry sources said flag carriers Philippine Airlines, Cebu Pacific and Air Philippines are feeling the pinch of the mass hiring by foreign air carriers.

Last month, Indian job recruiters arrived in the country and promptly started interviewing possible recruits in a hotel in Makati.

A pilot working with a Philippine air carrier told The STAR that the Indian headhunters were offering very attractive compensation packages of as much as $6,000 for flight officers and $8,000 for experienced pilots of Boeing 737s.

Sources inside PAL told The STAR that the arrival of the Indian recruiters had reportedly panicked PAL management which is asking the Philippine National Police (PNP) to arrest and immediately deport those conducting recruitment activities without the coordination and authorization of the Philippine Overseas Employment Authority.

However, it was learned that the assault by foreign commercial airlines on the country’s pool of skilled pilots does not end with the departure of the Indians.

A source said recruiters for South Korean airline, Asiana, arrived recently to entice pilots to leave their jobs with local airlines.

The South Korean job recruiters are offering salaries higher than those dangled by the Indian counterparts with some experienced pilots being offered as much as $12,000 a month, the source added.

The source said that, effective last Feb. 1, PAL gave a 10-percent salary increase to their pilots as an incentive to stay.

The increase came despite safeguards built into PAL’s five-year employment contracts with their pilots to prevent piracy.

"While it is not much, its still an improvement," a PAL pilot said.

PAL pilots here reportedly earn a salary equivalent to around $3,000 a month.

While relatively high, the source said that many pilots see their pay as meager considering the steep price they had to pay to go through flying school.

Nowadays, one has to shell out as much as P2 million to complete a demanding two-year pilot training with a reputable flying school, the source added.

source: http://www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS200602060405.htm
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Old 21st Feb 2006, 09:47
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So, what's PAL and the rest of the airlines gonna do about it now ? Is there anyone left to fly their planes ?

No offence meant, but I heard one Asian airline rang PARC to recruit pilots. The PARC guy asked how much the airline was willing to pay and when they told him....... he just hang up the phone laughing.

Well, looks like the balance of demand and supply has now tipped in favour of the pilots. Do you think they would start paying you now hopefully ?

D6
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Old 23rd Feb 2006, 04:32
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Only thing I can say to this new Another Tan Office (ATO) circular...Put A Little More Nilo Hati Ko!! For the pinoys out there, good luck to us all.
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Old 25th Feb 2006, 10:13
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e6b and the rest of the pinoy pilots around,

with the 'lack' of pilots in the philippine aviation industry, is it safe to say that it is high time for new pilots to come in?

i hold a CPL, Command Multi-Engine Instrument Rating, and an Instructor Rating with 300 total flying hours.

mabuhay!
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Old 25th Feb 2006, 14:49
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Pinoypilot,

You gonna need more than 300 hours if you want to fly for any major airlines in the Phil. you got a better chance with the smaller charter companies flying King Airs, caravans, etc.etc.

S43
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Old 26th Feb 2006, 02:15
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Originally Posted by pinoypiloto
e6b and the rest of the pinoy pilots around,
with the 'lack' of pilots in the philippine aviation industry, is it safe to say that it is high time for new pilots to come in?
i hold a CPL, Command Multi-Engine Instrument Rating, and an Instructor Rating with 300 total flying hours.
mabuhay!
pinoypiloto,

S43 is right. Minimum flight time required for new hires at CebuPac is 1500 hrs. It might go down to 1000 hrs if the current trend continues. My advice is to keep on accumulatng those flight hours because of the expected increase in requirement for experienced pilots in the asia-pacific region in the next decade or two.
There is even talk at Cebupac of setting up an Ab Initio flight school, but that's all up in the air.
And when you do get the time, unless you're particularly inclined to living in Flipland, why not try other asian carriers that offer better compensation/working conditions...just my 2 centavos

Ingat Pare.
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Old 26th Feb 2006, 02:32
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regarding the SO not getting paid on time, i wonder if that really is true. but if it is then that is so disappointing. i'm a newbie in this industry and i've got no options yet but to stick with PAL til i get my qualifications. but as early as now, joining a foreign carrier is all i think about (and i'm speaking for my fellow SOs as well). not just for the fat salary but for the growth other airlines promise.
anyone know an airline hiring SOs?
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