PAL Pilot Exodus
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RADAR
I had a chat with an american ex-colleague flying in Japan & learned that there are actually 2 pinoys flying there now (both worked with PAL).
The irony of it all is the 2 pinoys (who now reside elsewhere: 1 in LAX & the other in Australia) were hired because they had foreign licenses (an FAA & an Australian ATPL).
Turned out that Japan (thru the agents) had doubts about the Phil ATPL in the past bec of an incident where ATO personnels sold a Phil ATPL to a Japanese & the whole thing being discovered by the local CAB.
HE even mentioned the name of the 2 ATO people involved & the names sound familiar.
But the whole thing has been clarified & agents are now accepting pilots with Phil ATPL (thanks to the pinoys there who explained that people who come from the airlines in the Phils usually have authentic licenses & logbooks).
The package in Japan is very good & in my opinion it is so far the highest in the world airlines.
A foreign 737 capt in Japan actually gets as much as a wide body Capt in the middle east (the package in Japan is tax free...your company actually pays the taxes for you)...but nonetheless, the local Japanese Captains even get more!!!
A flight attendant of a low cost carrier in Japan gets as much as a B737/A320 capt in PAL (pathetic) it turns out.
Wide body Capts from all over are actually flocking to Japan these days to fly the small jets (you know, less work crossing the time zones).
Japan is now opening their doors to foreign captains which has been 7 years late.
A lot of wide body japanese captains who have retired are being hired by the domestic carriers to fly the small jets (& they are not doing it for the money as what the 60+ people in PAL are forced to do).
Haneda airport will be opening another runway in 2008/9 & more airlines will be opening.
But the training in Japan is not easy as you are expected to follow strict japanese ways & procedures. The sim check is quite demanding as you are expected to fly your aircraft with pin point accuracy according to the my friend.
Another killer is the oral exam you have to go thru every sim check.
So if you think you have what it takes, try it out.
He mentioned about IASCO, Hawaiian Aviation, Rishworth, & TWI as the agents involved in recruiting captains for japanese airlines.
All information are available on the website & applications are usually done online.
Better get your logbooks tidy & authenticated as the japanese go through them thoroughly.
Requirements are 5000TT & 1500 command on the aircraft.
Positions for rated (training takes 4 months full course if rated) & non-rated captains (training takes minimum of 8 months for non-rated with almost full pay) are possible.
Captains positions are usually the ones available.
F/O's are local guys with very few experience since the japanese are nowadays shying away from this professsion since they have a lot of other more high paying jobs preferred.
But NCA is hiring only B747-400 F/o's which will eventually result to an upgrade after three years.
Good luck to all...might try it out myself.
The irony of it all is the 2 pinoys (who now reside elsewhere: 1 in LAX & the other in Australia) were hired because they had foreign licenses (an FAA & an Australian ATPL).
Turned out that Japan (thru the agents) had doubts about the Phil ATPL in the past bec of an incident where ATO personnels sold a Phil ATPL to a Japanese & the whole thing being discovered by the local CAB.
HE even mentioned the name of the 2 ATO people involved & the names sound familiar.
But the whole thing has been clarified & agents are now accepting pilots with Phil ATPL (thanks to the pinoys there who explained that people who come from the airlines in the Phils usually have authentic licenses & logbooks).
The package in Japan is very good & in my opinion it is so far the highest in the world airlines.
A foreign 737 capt in Japan actually gets as much as a wide body Capt in the middle east (the package in Japan is tax free...your company actually pays the taxes for you)...but nonetheless, the local Japanese Captains even get more!!!
A flight attendant of a low cost carrier in Japan gets as much as a B737/A320 capt in PAL (pathetic) it turns out.
Wide body Capts from all over are actually flocking to Japan these days to fly the small jets (you know, less work crossing the time zones).
Japan is now opening their doors to foreign captains which has been 7 years late.
A lot of wide body japanese captains who have retired are being hired by the domestic carriers to fly the small jets (& they are not doing it for the money as what the 60+ people in PAL are forced to do).
Haneda airport will be opening another runway in 2008/9 & more airlines will be opening.
But the training in Japan is not easy as you are expected to follow strict japanese ways & procedures. The sim check is quite demanding as you are expected to fly your aircraft with pin point accuracy according to the my friend.
Another killer is the oral exam you have to go thru every sim check.
So if you think you have what it takes, try it out.
He mentioned about IASCO, Hawaiian Aviation, Rishworth, & TWI as the agents involved in recruiting captains for japanese airlines.
All information are available on the website & applications are usually done online.
Better get your logbooks tidy & authenticated as the japanese go through them thoroughly.
Requirements are 5000TT & 1500 command on the aircraft.
Positions for rated (training takes 4 months full course if rated) & non-rated captains (training takes minimum of 8 months for non-rated with almost full pay) are possible.
Captains positions are usually the ones available.
F/O's are local guys with very few experience since the japanese are nowadays shying away from this professsion since they have a lot of other more high paying jobs preferred.
But NCA is hiring only B747-400 F/o's which will eventually result to an upgrade after three years.
Good luck to all...might try it out myself.
Not to put a damper on things fellas, but be prepared for THE MOST extensive Flight physical with JAL/Iasco. I have had more than 4 friends from my USAF Squadron FAIL their flight physical for one reason or another. Our Flight Physical standards are very high to begin if that tells you anything. Start from the weight/height standards and nit pick your way up! Good luck!
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#1- Credibility. An "experienced" US based pilot who flies for foreign operations is regarded as expanding his/her horizons. A non-US based airman flying international with FAA certificates is common. It's a different picture painted when a brand new US based pilot with minimal experience starts logging jet time overseas. Although it IS common practice for foreign airliners to hire low time airmen as SOs or even FOs, it is not very well known or received in the US. It is no secret that padding a logbook or other documents is so much easier to do and harder to track if it is overseas.
#2- You teach the material you KNOW it. A CFI/MEI that has been operating in an FAA regulated environment knows his #hit because he is closely monitored by the Feds. If this guy intends on coming back to the US, he will have to prove to the prospective employer that he knows the FAA regs where as the CFI already has.
#3- CFI time is PIC time. PIC in a ME piston weighs heavier than SIC in a jet. The fact that you are in command and manipulator of controls in a recip is more valuable than proving you can work the radios, yank the gear and flaps in a jet.
#4- CFIs of today typically make $50+/hour. More than some of airline operators overseas. A friend quit the regionals and flight instructs out of Palo Alto CA for $80/hour. Although the money may be good for your cost of living overseas, your bills in US $ will make it difficult to get by.
Not to say that being a CFI is the best way to go -- I personally did not take that route. There are plenty of avenues to get to your final career goals. Some are better than others, mostly it is because of one's perception. The points I have made above is based on Saeed's standing and what I have personally seen here in the states and nothing else. Things may very well be different in another corner of the world.
SBV
#2- You teach the material you KNOW it. A CFI/MEI that has been operating in an FAA regulated environment knows his #hit because he is closely monitored by the Feds. If this guy intends on coming back to the US, he will have to prove to the prospective employer that he knows the FAA regs where as the CFI already has.
#3- CFI time is PIC time. PIC in a ME piston weighs heavier than SIC in a jet. The fact that you are in command and manipulator of controls in a recip is more valuable than proving you can work the radios, yank the gear and flaps in a jet.
#4- CFIs of today typically make $50+/hour. More than some of airline operators overseas. A friend quit the regionals and flight instructs out of Palo Alto CA for $80/hour. Although the money may be good for your cost of living overseas, your bills in US $ will make it difficult to get by.
Not to say that being a CFI is the best way to go -- I personally did not take that route. There are plenty of avenues to get to your final career goals. Some are better than others, mostly it is because of one's perception. The points I have made above is based on Saeed's standing and what I have personally seen here in the states and nothing else. Things may very well be different in another corner of the world.
SBV
Here let's try this scenario. I am a flight instructor who is getting ready to finish my Bachelors degree in Aviation Business Adminisitration in Florida with only two semester left (planning to graduate FAll 07). I have a CFI/CFII Commercial MSEL/AMEL Instrument rating and all that hoo haaa with plenty of time, is it better for me to stick around in the US or fly with a foreign carrier like PAL to build time and experience?
I just can't fathome that building time overseas would be frowned upon here in the US. I understand it is difficult to track and investigate it, but to an airline wouldn't it be more cost beneficial to hire and guy with jet PIC time from an overseas carrier flying a 737 over a guy who does not have any jet time here in the US.
Just wondering
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mutawas
Hey Semper Fi, who is or what are the mutawas ? Just curious.
D6
"Semper Fi - do or die" - isn't that the motto of the USMC ?[/QUOTE]
Mutawas are the religious police of the KSA, quite pleasant chaps if you know what i mean.
Used to see them all the time in my travels there a long time ago.
raaahhh raaaahhh raaahhhh guys
D6
"Semper Fi - do or die" - isn't that the motto of the USMC ?[/QUOTE]
Mutawas are the religious police of the KSA, quite pleasant chaps if you know what i mean.
Used to see them all the time in my travels there a long time ago.
raaahhh raaaahhh raaahhhh guys
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Read in between the lines
So its better for me to continue being a flight instructor here in the US (not even getting paid 20/hr) then to fly overseas after instructing?
Here let's try this scenario. I am a flight instructor who is getting ready to finish my Bachelors degree in Aviation Business Adminisitration in Florida with only two semester left (planning to graduate FAll 07). I have a CFI/CFII Commercial MSEL/AMEL Instrument rating and all that hoo haaa with plenty of time, is it better for me to stick around in the US or fly with a foreign carrier like PAL to build time and experience?
I just can't fathome that building time overseas would be frowned upon here in the US. I understand it is difficult to track and investigate it, but to an airline wouldn't it be more cost beneficial to hire and guy with jet PIC time from an overseas carrier flying a 737 over a guy who does not have any jet time here in the US.
Just wondering
Here let's try this scenario. I am a flight instructor who is getting ready to finish my Bachelors degree in Aviation Business Adminisitration in Florida with only two semester left (planning to graduate FAll 07). I have a CFI/CFII Commercial MSEL/AMEL Instrument rating and all that hoo haaa with plenty of time, is it better for me to stick around in the US or fly with a foreign carrier like PAL to build time and experience?
I just can't fathome that building time overseas would be frowned upon here in the US. I understand it is difficult to track and investigate it, but to an airline wouldn't it be more cost beneficial to hire and guy with jet PIC time from an overseas carrier flying a 737 over a guy who does not have any jet time here in the US.
Just wondering
If you have already been flying as a CFI/MEI and have accumulated more than 1500TT and an ATP then go for it -- thats what you should be looking into anyway--advancement.
I think you may have read right through my point -- First, consider the background of the person that initiated this query: brand new Commercial SEL pilot which means he sits around 250 hours TT - You obviously have surpassed that with "plenty of time". Second, the basic stick, rudder, environment and regs - build a good solid foundation that no one can question. You obviously have as you are CFI/MEI, he has not.
It would be frowned upon by most if your experience is full of glitz and glamour of sitting right in jets without a solid foundation. My 5 year old could run checklists, flip switches, yank a handle and babble on the radio, while maintaining the colors within the lines of the pictures on his coloring book. And yes, I have seen and selected a CFII/MEII over the other.
The rest should be obvious.
BTW, FL may very well have a lower CFI pay standard than what I have seen out west. Either way, CFI QOL/pay has dramatically increased in the past 10 years.
You (Pascual) should look into commuters/corporate/charter/cargo/military or even overseas ops. I do not know all and my points are not bullet proof, just a piece of what I have seen work in this industry in one corner of the world. Like anything else in your career, take what you care to and dump the rest.
Last edited by Soundbarviolatr; 13th Sep 2006 at 06:29.
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Japan physical & taxation
Not to put a damper on things fellas, but be prepared for THE MOST extensive Flight physical with JAL/Iasco. I have had more than 4 friends from my USAF Squadron FAIL their flight physical for one reason or another. Our Flight Physical standards are very high to begin if that tells you anything. Start from the weight/height standards and nit pick your way up! Good luck!
A lot of people fail here even if they are not obese or over weight bec the Japanese medical examiners adhere to the bmi number of 30 & below.
That means that you can be muscle bound pumping irons or playing football but they want the foreign pilots to have the body proportion of the typical Japanese to be given the medical certificate.
As I was told, some foreign pilots were required to loose weight (they were referred to a gym in japan which cost them $80 per month) in 1 month with their training pay of $7200 being paid all the while.
Not bad at all.
The guys who lost weight were happier
now with their bodies & they maintain it that way by eating japanese food....hehehe.The tax free package in Japan will actually work for pilots who live in places where a dual taxation treaty is in place between their country & Japan.
This means that if you pay just a dollar of tax in Japan, just show your local tax officer the certificate that you paid in Japan (your company actually paid the taxes for you) & you will not have to pay a single cent of tax in your home country.
Some countries which do not have the treaty may apply the percentage system wherein if your country will charge you 40 percent tax for your amount of income & that Japan has already charged you 30 percent, you will only have to pay 10 percent in your country (Canada might be doing this).
In the case of Pinoys, no taxes will be paid by the pilot in the Phils if they register themselves as OFW's (Overseas Filipino Worker...JH actually looks down upon this kind of Pinoys...mata pobre ang loko).
Any Pinoy pilot will feel good about this. They are probably thinking that why pay taxes when LT himself can get away with PHP26 billion of his tax dues with the Phil government.
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BMI
and start going to they gym at least 3 times a week 
Or better still, go to Paris Island and join the Marine Corp. That should do it.....
Last edited by Eight Ball; 13th Sep 2006 at 21:05. Reason: I was half asleep when I did this
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Not just that..we had guys in tip top military condition wash out of their medical screening. They just comb through your physical -- if you had an ingrown hair where the sun dont shine you SOL. But hey, no harm in giving it a shot; at least you got them back by forcing them to look at that ingrown hair.
Seriosuly, give it a shot -- you won't know until you do it.
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hearsay
Im always in NAIA, and honestly... dont believe in hearsay. theres always a lot of pirating going around but they my friends in OAL said they wouldnt go to that extent. huge risk for nothing
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Rumours?
Oh, It's there. Those in the company know and have actually seen it in action...Hell, some that are reading this board may actually have been IN on the action. As for rumours I myself (not a PAL employee but close to s few people that are) have actually seen it in action for the longest time, way back when they used to Crew rest @ Dunfey in SFO. Obviously it would not be worth it for a Crew Member from NWA, you make enough money to live comfortably, but it may very well be a necessity for one from PAL. Check 6 on the thread.
Im always in NAIA, and honestly... dont believe in hearsay. theres always a lot of pirating going around but they my friends in OAL said they wouldnt go to that extent. huge risk for nothing
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Last edited by Soundbarviolatr; 13th Sep 2006 at 23:05.
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BTW, this IS the net, so I could be LT or the devil himself for all you know.
Last edited by Soundbarviolatr; 14th Sep 2006 at 00:13.
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Some ppl, me included, are not cut out for instructing. It's not about flying big jets, I wouldn't mind getting a job here that requires only a SEL rating. I don't mind starting out small. I just want to get my foot in the door but not via instruction.
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[quote=richkidpoorkid;2845948]Right on Soundbarviolatr...you were probably talking about the BMI (body mass index) that they require in Japan.
A lot of people fail here even if they are not obese or over weight bec the Japanese medical examiners adhere to the bmi number of 30 & below.
That means that you can be muscle bound pumping irons or playing football but they want the foreign pilots to have the body proportion of the typical Japanese to be given the medical certificate.
As I was told, some foreign pilots were required to loose weight (they were referred to a gym in japan which cost them $80 per month) in 1 month with their training pay of $7200 being paid all the while. ///JH is a ''cono'' kid who had nothing but a piece of you know what, he was placed in the pal management by his cousin ANDY who is a B747 CP in a foreign airline now, pero tinuka dn nya when the Belmonte group took over PAL
A lot of people fail here even if they are not obese or over weight bec the Japanese medical examiners adhere to the bmi number of 30 & below.
That means that you can be muscle bound pumping irons or playing football but they want the foreign pilots to have the body proportion of the typical Japanese to be given the medical certificate.
As I was told, some foreign pilots were required to loose weight (they were referred to a gym in japan which cost them $80 per month) in 1 month with their training pay of $7200 being paid all the while. ///JH is a ''cono'' kid who had nothing but a piece of you know what, he was placed in the pal management by his cousin ANDY who is a B747 CP in a foreign airline now, pero tinuka dn nya when the Belmonte group took over PAL
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Right Stuff?
Remember the movie "The Right Stuff"? You know what makes an airplane fly? Funding! Well, there's you answer. Most operators choose not only affordale insurance but reputable ones, and you guessed it; in the US, Insurance companies dictate where you start your career. Check 6 on the thread where I refer to the "golden numbers".
@ <500 hours tt you are at a tight spot without a CFI. Most of the pilots I know that stay in the US and opted for this route had to pay for the first 500 hours until they could get insured. I'm sure there are non-CFI jobs out there that will let you fly at your experience level you just have to actually go out there and look for them -- remember under p91 you do not have min time requirements other than the insurance companies so concentrate on privately owned operations as some of them have enough money to be "self insured". Also check into bush flying in Alaska or Canyon Tours in Las Vegas. Spread your inquiry on to the US based forums and see what other ideas you can get.
Good Luck,SBV
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Cfi Or Bust
As may have been posted before somewhere on one of the threads here, having a CFI and coming to or trying to get work in the Far East MAY work but you still end up at the bottom of the totem pole of whatever carrier hires you. If you luck out, maybe an outfit in Hong Kong may hire you albeit on a small prop pusher.
If you are aiming for the majors, well, no other way but to jump through the
loops of recruitment and wait for your time up the corporate ladder. Stay away from dubious majors and stick to the proven ones, just because one has been in existence for 60+ years is no guarantee and its been proven because guys are leaving in droves like rats from a sinking ship. BWIA is closing after 66 years and being renamed carribean airlines so go figure how that will affect all the employees, didn't that happen some time ago in the late 90's to a Far East major, hmmm??????
If you are aiming for the majors, well, no other way but to jump through the
loops of recruitment and wait for your time up the corporate ladder. Stay away from dubious majors and stick to the proven ones, just because one has been in existence for 60+ years is no guarantee and its been proven because guys are leaving in droves like rats from a sinking ship. BWIA is closing after 66 years and being renamed carribean airlines so go figure how that will affect all the employees, didn't that happen some time ago in the late 90's to a Far East major, hmmm??????
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Very nice profile you have there Mr. Soundbar, i hope you can help a Filipino pilot in need of a job?