velvet_ice

i read in someone elses post that CX is postponing or has put off any more cadet programmes for the rest of the year because of the SARS issue? Has this been confirmed?

Does anyone know of any factual information on how this is going to affect future and current cadet pilot applications?? will there be still be interviews?

Also do CX contact you if you have been unsuccessful with your cadet pilot programme application?


Moving on to something else, i'd just thought i would mention this and i wonder if anyone else has the same feeling?? or has found this type of attitude?? do you agree that is really not necessary?

I have been reading through the posts that i have recieved and those of what others have recieved. One of the most common aspects of this is when someone posts a new topic and asks a question is the constant reference to checking the archives.

What is the point of anyone asking a question in the forum if they are just going to be told to refer to the archives when the information there, yes may be of use it could also possibly be out of date too? therefore, isnt asking in the forum the best way you will find the most up to date of information from others?

Also Has it become so difficult for people to post a simple reply without dropping in some sort of sarcastic comment? When there really is no such need. Either people have something to offer or they dont? So why do some feel it is there need to pick?

Isn't the whole idea of this being a wannabe forum is for those who are just starting out in the aviation industry and requesting advice and opinions of others who either have experience or are in a similar situation themselves? If this is how some peoples attitudes can be online, i wonder what it is like in the industry itself??

Although the majority of the attitudes i have come across are positive and helpful there have been a few comments that just seem somewhat inappropriate and have some attitude in it, expecting me to already know the answer? Well if i knew the answer then i wouldnt be asking the question? It is as simple as this, if you cant say something appropriate and without attitude then dont say anything at all?

I think people should maybe try and be a little bit more sympathetic to those who are just starting out in the PPRUNE forum, It takes a lil bit to get learn of all the types of forums and it is the same for when you begin anything new. I believe the saying "treat others the way you would like to be treated" would be appropriate. We are all on the same side here and shouldnt feel the need to knock anyone down if they make a mistake.

rumour reader

Yeah, I’m with you on all that. I find it annoying when you look at a thread because you are interested in the subject only to find that the replies have nothing to do with it. People just go off on a tangent. If that doesn’t happen then you get shot down because you haven’t spelt something correctly. In that case the thread becomes an argument on the need for good spelling on the flight deck? There are some people who post and moderate this that waste their time being picky over something that was written at 3am.
I’m absolutely gutted about SARS. I have no confirmation but I think it can be safe to say that the cadet courses are off for the foreseeable future. I think I’m in the same boat as you and many others? Waiting to hear. I think I will be happy with a letter back telling me that I’m on file and they will contact when the situation gets better. Hopefully the media will lose interest soon and the public fear die down then things can start to perk up for Cathay.
I saw in one of your posts that you have a ‘back up plan’ maybe now is a good time to put in to action. Not yet ruling out the cadet scheme but with 200 hours already under your belt you must be well on your way to getting a CPL.
Good luck. I think we are going to need it!

velvet_ice

i think i can safely agree with you on that point with CX. Next stage is go ahead and get started on my ATPL.

Well it is good to know that you also share my opinion on the attitudes here at times, i was dubious about writing it but i thought it was a fair point to take into consideration. I dont see why people are so petty over such trivial things as a spelling mistake. It happens all the time but unless it is seriously jeapordising someone then why make such an issue out of it right?

BarryMonday

"I dont see why people are so petty over such trivial things as a spelling mistake. It happens all the time but unless it is seriously jeapordising someone then why make such an issue out of it right?"

I thinks the answer as to why people complain about seriously bad grammer, spelling mistakes, SMS style abbreviations and people who can't be bothered to use the Shift key for capital letters is contained in the above statement.

It shows a person with a couldn't-care-less attitude, lazy, prone to taking short cuts and not bothered about how they see themselves presented. Not the qualities that are looked for when selecting candidates for an expensive course of training that will lead to them becoming a fully integrated member of a flight-deck team that adheres to SOPs. Quite the opposite in fact.

You may well complain loudly and say I am old fashioned and not in line with the present day educational system, but I am also of that generation, or one older, that will be assessing your applications, and therefore do not share the opinion expressed in the statement quoted at the top of this post. Oh yes, no one is going to buy the tale that you only get sloppy on a bulletin board either!

Surely it doesn't hurt that much to make an effort to get things right does it? How you present yourself in the written form is often the first impression you get the chance to make, not the one when you walk through the door.

[edited to include bad grammer and spelling mistakes]

velvet_ice

Well maybe some people when it comes to writing a post on the internet have all the time in the world to sit down and go through all the grammatical errors and spelling mistakes one by one. Then again maybe some don't?

My point being, is that to judge someone on that issue alone is really quite unfair on here. This is not where we are applying for a job, this is just where we come to seek advice and ask questions? Is this not supposed to be a somewhat relaxed enviroment? I am sure you have had times where you have relaxed and didn't notice any minor mistakes in your writing? It doesn't make you uneducated or show that you lack the qualities of becoming a good pilot? I was not referring to the "making a big deal over minor spelling mistakes" when it comes to job matters, I was simply pointing out, that in these forums, sometimes people concentrate so much on the minor details of a little mistake now and then instead of just giving their opinion or advice without coming off as being patronising.

I mean, your point being that proper grammar and spelling should be used at all times because it reflects ones character? So does that mean when i am flying solo and doing a cross country, i have to check and double check that i am not writing in short hand " because it would look unprofessional" , that my grammar and my spellings and presentation are all held to a high standard? Well if that is the case, there is going to be alot of circling happening while i am planning a diversion or making notes while i am flying.

The Fact of the matter is, is that people are using short hand and sms type phrases everyday, even when it comes to work related matters and issues? When someone wants to send a quick memo, without hesitating to check completely for grammar or spelling, does that make them a bad employee? no, they are trying to get the point across as bluntly and as quickly as possible. That is todays generation.

It does not always reflect laziness or someones lack of enthusiasm or a couldn't care less attitude. If someone could not care less then why would they make the effort they do to seek out the information needed so they can pursue their goals in aviation? It is not exactly an inexpensive career to achieve especially when self funding. I am not here to be criticized or judged neither is anyone else.

I do respect others opinions and you are right that in the application is where the potential employer will get his/her first impression of the potential employee. I was not saying that proper use of grammar and spelling should not be used when it comes to applications. I agree that it should be used. But if you remember to what i was referring to in the beginning was only in reference to the forums,

well i wrote more than i wanted too. But i felt quite strongly about your reply. good day.

smallwing

For someone who might not have time to check grammar and stuff has time for 3 posts so far in a day...

As for attitudes, don't expect the whole world to treat you like a baby. Before you write to this forum, I ASSUME you will have read some of the other topics AND will know what to expect in return. Thus howsoever someone replies to you, you just have to accept it.

Being cocky gets you nowhere, previously stating you are well over qualified for the post. I cannot deny that you are qualified or not, but this judgement is not up to yourself but the company. Telling us that, but not knowing what to do only tells ME that you are lacking the communication skills required.

You do not have to like what is written here, as long as the Moderators think it is ok. You also do not have to accept any opinions or comments that are given.

Before you started asking questions, there were fresh questions asked every month, with NEW information. I can only reiterate that the archives CAN help you.

Current situation is Cathay has stopped ALL recruitment. Go ahead and send them your 200 hrs again and again. Until they think they need more cadets, then perhaps they will contact you again. Until then go and do whatever you need to do to chase your hopes and dreams as a pilot. I can guarantee you you will also have a hard time knocking on the door as a finesse.

All I can say is that the airlines in HK right now is trying to get ready to ride out this storm. Even the cadets now in Adelaide are not definitely guaranteed.

If you find the information posted here on this forum not what you are looking for, I suggest you look elsewhere.

Regards

salamundi

WELL DONE!

I have been perusing Pprune for years now and never had the courage to post a reply due to the number of sarcastic unhelpful mongrals that have no life other than to correct a struggling pilots spelling!!!!!

On a more serious note, this SARS thing is not just screwing with cadet programs. I was short listed for Ansett then september 11 happened. I had an interview with QF, then they employed all the Ansett drivers and now my last stage CX has been postponed. The only advise I have for us all is

HANG IN THERE

Your last remark, although I am sure was intended in jest could, at this difficult time, cause offence to those closer to the SARS problem, so it is deleted. Sorry, but we have to think of everyone.

BlueEagle - Moderator.

BarryMonday

velvet_ice Stretching it a bit to compare our random scribblings with a chinagraph pencil on the knee-pad/clip board, intended for personal use, with forms of communication, including bulletin boards.

Heartbreaker

Velvet_ice. Oh dear, you are doing a good job of "foot in mouth". Had a look at your other postings and saw you in Chat Room. I'm amazed at your sense of entitlement and lack of tact in your contributions. I'd agree with BarryMonday that your presentation and poor spelling, says a lot about the disregard you hold the readership of the forums. Your immaturity is apparent here and I expect will be obvious in any psychometric testing you undergo as part of the CX recruitment process.

It may well be that you are dyslexic, looking at the sort of errors you have made and I'd suggest you consider undergoing assessment as methods of overcoming this problem are available.

PPRuNe Towers

If you're new to the forum and frustrated at not getting instant, useful replies it's time you had a think outside your own circumstances.

We are not operating a call centre or tech support line. We struggle to keep highly experience contributors helping out on all the wanabee forums across the site. They get thoroughly hacked off at getting asked the same things several times a month and this goes on year after year.

Yes, they will comment on changes in the systems or situation but they have every right to expect someone who is supposed to have a professional attitude to do some initial legwork and spend a couple of days reviewing the vast amount of information here.

Yes, it is important to you but it was for someone else last week and the week before that and the month before that. There is an incredible resource here for you all - get the legwork in first and show it in your posts. That way you'll get the respect, interest and attention of experienced pilots who did it all on their own before PPRuNe or anything like it was conceived.

As far as most pro pilots are concerned you are getting the vital stuff on a plate and you all collectively need to earn their assistance.

Regards from the Towers
Rob

JetDriverWannabe

I have been following PPRUNE for quite some time and yes I could agree on the point that some of the posted by new members could be found to be annoying as they they have been anwsered here before.
From the prespective of experianced PPruners, I would be true to say that they get annoyed because they do not want to anwser the same question again and again.
Therefore, he/she thinks poorly of the person who asked the question as that person did not bother to user the Search Function.
Questions that considered annoying to vetern PPRuners might be. ... Vision Requirements: does Myphia Rule me out , Color Vision requirements , The response time of CX to letter, how much does CX pay , the CX recruitment Process and the 4 stages. , the medical , what is the group exercise.

I am currently trying to apply for the cadet ship too.. Yes I have alot a anxiety about the process or even whether they are going to recruit at all in the near term future...but every one here is under different pressures here. I am sure current CX drivers are worreied about their jobs. The airline industry is looking pretty bad at the moment look around. United going under, American flying on empty.....
As for the issue about spelling and grammer.. There is no right or wrong anwser here.......
if u spll lk dis, it dun mean i m dum.
The statement above is true. Just becuase you use ebonics or SMS type on a message board, it does not prove you are lazy or less well eductated .....
However, a vast amount of professionals out there which you need to influence out there think it is related to less desirable personality traits. These professionals have vast amounts and have to make decicions on the fly. Therefore they use their past experiance to help them save time and this means prejudice.

BarryMonday

" Therefore they use their past experiance to help them save time and this means prejudice."

Personally I don't think I, or people who think as I do, are prejudiced, (of preconceived opinion), I think it is just a case that, when showing ourselves in public we won't accept second best. It is easier to try to spell correctly and write grammatically correct English all the time than have two standards, one for applications/CVs and another for bulletin boards that are in the public domain.

You may have seen the sign, "You Are What You Eat"? well it is equally true to say that, "You Are What You Write".

Best of luck with your application and I hope things get better soon.

velvet_ice

get off the high horse.


I find it wonderfully amusing how those with "experience" see themselves as fit to make judgements upon others? When they do not know anything about the person.

As for the possibility of being dyslexic, who are you to make that diagnosis? Doesn't anyone in these forums have anything else better to do than nit pick?? I think you all know as well as i do there are many other aspects apart from the proper use of English that makes a pilot that some of you are failing to point out. Yes it is professional for a pilot to have good use of english but that is not the end all and be all.

Oh darn that F/O ( a common form of shorthand i see being used, one rule for you and another rule for others in using short hand i see?) misspelled that word and OH NO!! he/she put the apostrophe in the wrong place! ground that pilot ASAP!! what on earth are they doing flying a plane!! This just can not be!

As for my lack of tact, oh well, I see i have really managed to stir your pots just a little bit. Water of a ducks back. Am sure you will all get over it soon enough because i spoke out and said something that was not to your liking?? try and knock me down, try and put me in my place, give your condescending remarks, your sarcastic gestures and whatever else you would like to throw in. It isnt really going to get anywhere.

Oh yes, i am gunno enroled mysulf in2 propur engurish lissons. fank you for gud suggstion! ta ta.

Flying Bagel

But it seems like you're the one on the high horse to say that everyone should be at your service. The attitude that you pose in this thread, in my opinion, definitely does not fit in a cockpit, where sometimes you have to do things that you won't like to do to get a job done, one way or another. There are many things in this world that you have to work hard for yourself, and if you're not even willing to go do some research on your own on this site, I don't think you'll make it through any aviation program. There are a lot more assinine things you have to do in aviation that are much worse than typing a few words in a search engine.

The excuse that you don't have time simply doesn't cut it. And if you go along those lines, I can simply tell you that I don't have time to post any elaborate responses to what you're asking.

People will not tell you to look up something if the info did not already exist. It's as simple as that. That's unless if you have some specific question which cannot be found right away.

In any case, there are a lot of people on this site that also have extremely bad behaviour. If you endeavour to be a good professional pilot, I suggest you not follow their path of thorns. And I must admit, your assessment that there are a few unhelpful and sarcastic people on this site (and in the industry) is not entirely untrue either. But if you stick up on your end of the bargain, you need not worry or complain about anyone else. Because in any career, not just aviation, you have to have thick skin to survive. Such disputes on such petty issues will do you no good.

The thing I hate the most is people who put up a complaint, without doing any work themselves. That kind of thing is only reserved for people who are either born rich, or are born into royalty.

At least don't act like this in your interview. Bad CRM messages here...

smallwing

I guess CX will really be watching out for people with over 200 hours and from the UK. hahahaha

What you sow is what you reap, so continue with the smart remarks.. doesn't hurt at all. In fact, it only shows more what type of person you are, and very soon, be liked just as much as others on this forum.

Have fun with your 200 hrs!

Sick Squid

Velvet_Ice, with the greatest of respect you really do need to pause and reflect here. What you may not realise is that out of the experienced contributors you have knocked here, questioning the relevance of their views in the process there are some who can make connections you have no access to with your current position on the aviation food chain.

PPRuNe Towers and I have both seen wannabes post on the site for many years, seen how they deport themselves with the advice they are given, watched how they take criticism as it is presented in the sometimes abrupt manner of a bulletin board. Most importantly, however, we have also met many of these people in the flesh and been able to translate impressions garnered here into outcomes in the World of aviation, and watched this over quite a period of time with many contributors. We can draw a very simple line in the sand early on, and place people either side of that line based on our knowledge and experience that comes from that invaluable translation from written page, to face-to-face, and also our simple knowledge garnered as captains doing the job you aspire to day-in-and day-out.

The advice you have been given above is priceless, because again with respect, in the impression you give here have to in my opinion seriously take stock of your attitudes and motivation. It is your choice whether or not you take the advice and criticism; the contributors on the board do not have to give it, and you may consider their (and indeed Towers and my) experience irrrelevant and meaningless. Fine. That is your prerogative.

Whatever you do, good luck.

Sick Squid
PPRuNe Admin/Moderator
(Former CX pilot)

Tungx2

sorry to bother everyone
but i think i lost the phone number to cathay pacific
can anyone tell me what the number is for the cadet pilot program recuit?
i'm supposed to talk to Peggy, if that helps.
thanks thanks

BASIS

Try dialing 911

Ju87

FYI: that would be 999 here in Hong Kong.