BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Well, that was interesting.
These words:
Words that may come back to bite them.
These words:
"...However, the overriding factor in rejection was the vindictive approach taken by the Company in disciplining, and in some cases dismissing employees for various misdemeanors attributed to the dispute. In addition to this, the Company's unwillingness to take a "step back" by reinstating the travel concessions for Unite members who participated in the previous industrial action only serves to demonstrate the uncompromising attitude it has adopted since the outset of negotiations..." (emphasis added)
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In addition to this, the Company's unwillingness to take a "step back" by reinstating the travel concessions for Unite members who participated in the previous industrial action only serves to demonstrate the uncompromising attitude it has adopted since the outset of negotiations..."
I for one (speaking as Pax and booker of tickets for others) am jolly glad that Mr Walsh has adopted an "Uncompromising attitude". I only hope he has the balls to see it through to its much-needed conclusion and that he doesn't back down.
It'd be great to see BA as a carrier to be proud of once again.
Support the Working Classes!!
Like wet vee 2, I wish to support the working classes!!!
I wish to support the Unemployed working classes of West London/West of London, - and any other geographical folk who are willing to get on their bikes to find work.
We'd be very happy to promise to live within 90 minutes bike ride of LHR.
Being unemployed is not much fun. I have lots of experience of it.
Like many others, once the Henley/Wimbledon(sickies)/Bassa brigade have left BA, and/or been fired, the unemployed workers will gleefully apply for the BA CC jobs, and , I can assure you, will be perfectly happy to take the new Fleet terms.
There are more unemployed working class folk within a 90 minute bike ride of LHR than there are workers in BA CC. Thus, any of the Socialist stuff should support them.
I wish to support the Unemployed working classes of West London/West of London, - and any other geographical folk who are willing to get on their bikes to find work.
We'd be very happy to promise to live within 90 minutes bike ride of LHR.
Being unemployed is not much fun. I have lots of experience of it.
Like many others, once the Henley/Wimbledon(sickies)/Bassa brigade have left BA, and/or been fired, the unemployed workers will gleefully apply for the BA CC jobs, and , I can assure you, will be perfectly happy to take the new Fleet terms.
There are more unemployed working class folk within a 90 minute bike ride of LHR than there are workers in BA CC. Thus, any of the Socialist stuff should support them.
Paxing All Over The World
Is wet vee two a troll? Possibly but a couple of the points are germane. The following will be boring/ridiculous and many other things to many readers.
Not that alone. The governments of the world had set up a duopoly on all routes. When they privatised them, it was a long time for the duopolies to be removed. In the second half of the 20th century, a British person faced with flying on BOAC/BEA/British/British Airways/BA or PanAm/Air France/Lufthansa/etc would 99% [guess] choose their own countries carrier. In the reverse direction, the US/Fr/De resident did the same. That's what you did.
This is the 21st century and ALL of that - and more - has gone.
Indeed, as it was for 99% [guess] of the companies in the UK and Western Europe. My generation (baby boomer) grew up to think that you could have a career that lasted and, if you chose to stay with one company and they wanted you, then you could stay with them for life.
This is the 21st century and ALL of that - and more - has gone.
You are correct!
You are correct!
But the mgmt is all that there is. The Board have chosen this route and CC can like it or leave. If the Board decide to sell the company you can like it or leave. The greatest majority of companies work this way - and that includes other airlines!
Because the UK is at the end of a very long good run (depending on how you calculate the start of the British Empire, it could be 400+ years) but now it is all over. We have overpaid ourselves, consider ourselves to be the best and all the other things. But we no longer are. Many countries in Western Europe have done the same and are also on their downward turn. Hello Middle East and China.
It really is that simple. It's called End of Empire and that's why the UK is in trouble. We got to the top of the pile and now it has to be downhill. The next 200 years are going to be uncomfortable. I was born at the end of the good time and am seeing the turn of the tide and so I, too, know how bitter it is. But the forces at work are global and human. Far, far greater than any individual Board or CEO. This is what human beings do. Read your history.
Keep your health and help those of your family and close friends to do the same.
BA used to be a renowned product because of its staff and the way they delivered their customer service. They did that because, they were rewarded for their services. And thats what attracted the yields.
This is the 21st century and ALL of that - and more - has gone.
The crew felt that they belonged to and subsequently devoted their lives to their job and have treated it like their own home and that attitude permeated in the way they delivered their customer service.BA used to be an inspiration for both staff and passengers.
This is the 21st century and ALL of that - and more - has gone.
Neo-style mangers treat their job as a hotel room instead.Thats the difference.
Neo-style managers in their pursuit of greed reckon that employing staff on peanuts will yield the same customer service and deliver the same historical profits for less. What UTTER RUBBISH.
Neo-style managers in their pursuit of greed reckon that employing staff on peanuts will yield the same customer service and deliver the same historical profits for less. What UTTER RUBBISH.
Its not the crew's fault that the pension pot is empty, its pernicious management.
But the mgmt is all that there is. The Board have chosen this route and CC can like it or leave. If the Board decide to sell the company you can like it or leave. The greatest majority of companies work this way - and that includes other airlines!
Tell me then, why is it that we now live in a society that has no job security, people have no aspirations, the customer service is non existent no matter where you go and yet we pride ourselves on the fact that we(the western world) have specialists everywhere for everything?
It really is that simple. It's called End of Empire and that's why the UK is in trouble. We got to the top of the pile and now it has to be downhill. The next 200 years are going to be uncomfortable. I was born at the end of the good time and am seeing the turn of the tide and so I, too, know how bitter it is. But the forces at work are global and human. Far, far greater than any individual Board or CEO. This is what human beings do. Read your history.
Keep your health and help those of your family and close friends to do the same.
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Its not the crew's fault that the pension pot is empty, its pernicious management.
More to the point, to get out of the pension hole, BA needs to continue to exist, so that payments at an increased rate (hopefully to be agreed soon) can be made so that expected pensions get paid to current staff.
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Hmm here we go again...
Maybe this will be BASSA's saving grace in the short term? Although it will only prolong the agony of the many BA CC that wish to see an end to this 'dispute'.
Britain’s busiest airports – including Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton and Stansted – could be affected because of ash blown towards Europe by prevailing winds from the Eyjafjallajokull volcano.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278647/UKs-major-airports-close-today-wind-blows-ash-south-Iceland-volcano.html#ixzz0o4ItDUHi
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278647/UKs-major-airports-close-today-wind-blows-ash-south-Iceland-volcano.html#ixzz0o4ItDUHi
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Courtesy of TopBunk on CC thread the latest Unite missive:
Thinking of Working?
The emperor's new clothes...please read on.
Forget the media hype and the BA news hysteria.
British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be
destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union
will be if you don't.
The only person increasingly likely to damage British Airways is Mr. Walsh
and he is doing a pretty good job of that all by himself.
What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month
of bad publicity just to prove a point? Trouble is nobody will tell him;
anybody that dared to air an alternative view has been silenced, or has
simply moved on.
If you choose to go to work over this next dispute, then you too are
playing along with the "I am backing BA, flag waving crowd" - sadly this
is an empty chant, invented by cynical managers who have worked for this
company for a couple of years, yet this "sound bite" is also being
unquestioningly and naively swallowed by people who have worked for BA for
decades who really should know better. Their loyalty should be to the
airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's
image. For when it's their turn to be sacrificed for greater profit, make
no mistake, they will be, pilots included.
We are all British Airways, not just those who work in Waterside; what
gave them the right to hijack our airline's good name for their own ends?
If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's
over; your union has been destroyed, not by Mr. Walsh - he could never
achieve that - but by you from within, by deserting us when the going got
tough.
We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that
believes they are standing up for their union, though we greatly
appreciate that, we want you to know that this is really all about
standing up for YOU.
At the end of the day, it's your job, your life, your career and your
bills that have to be paid. British Airways no longer wants you to have
your flying agreements, they have told you that; that's why they have
already introduced new contracts and soon, a new fleet.
What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus,
ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.
90 days notice, that's about it.
Only a few hurdles are still in their way - cabin crews' belief in their
own rights and a strong union to fight for them.
If you chose - and it will be your choice - to break the strike and go to
work, you have effectively and actively chosen to serve notice on both of
these, in that one gesture.
The strike is over imposition. Why? To send a clear message to British
Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect
them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If
you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.
Unite has compromised so much to try and get a deal and thus avoid you
having to go on strike, as we know this can be a daunting prospect, but
let's be brutally honest, this has been to the point of being seen as
almost desperate and at times almost embarrassing how conciliatory we were
all prepared to be. While Mr. Walsh has persistently rejected every
compromise, remained openly provocative and deliberately confrontational.
If you are not concerned by all of this, fair enough. Go to work and be
counted by Willy Walsh every single day, on every single news channel
around the world, as a number, a statistic he can use to show how much
cabin crew "support him" and his actions.
It's a blunt message but a true one; there are no hiding places left for
any of us, no fence to sit on - you're either with Mr. Walsh and Mr.
Francis and ALL that they stand for, or your colleagues that are standing
up for what's right. There is no middle ground left anymore.
No second chance, right or wrong, this is a moment in your personal
history.
It's up to you; by all means go to work, but in doing so you are making a
bed for us all to lie in, that is why we are appealing and pleading to
every single person, no matter what decision you made over the previous
strike, to now support yourselves before its too late.
We are sorry if this message sounds a little harsh or even negative, but
what needs to be said needs to be said, before it's too late. If it is
over and your union is destroyed, then your job will change beyond
recognition in the years to come. We do not want there to be any doubt
that we tried to warn you.
Tuesday 18th May - See you there or not, It's up to you...
If you have already decided to break the strike, there are no hard
feelings you are still fellow crew, we would only ask you to consider
printing this out, putting it away in a draw. In few years from now, you
may across it and reflect what might have been.
"If we fight for our rights and our dignity, we cannot promise you that we
will win but if we don't, then we have already lost them."
The emperor's new clothes...please read on.
Forget the media hype and the BA news hysteria.
British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be
destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union
will be if you don't.
The only person increasingly likely to damage British Airways is Mr. Walsh
and he is doing a pretty good job of that all by himself.
What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month
of bad publicity just to prove a point? Trouble is nobody will tell him;
anybody that dared to air an alternative view has been silenced, or has
simply moved on.
If you choose to go to work over this next dispute, then you too are
playing along with the "I am backing BA, flag waving crowd" - sadly this
is an empty chant, invented by cynical managers who have worked for this
company for a couple of years, yet this "sound bite" is also being
unquestioningly and naively swallowed by people who have worked for BA for
decades who really should know better. Their loyalty should be to the
airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's
image. For when it's their turn to be sacrificed for greater profit, make
no mistake, they will be, pilots included.
We are all British Airways, not just those who work in Waterside; what
gave them the right to hijack our airline's good name for their own ends?
If the same number that broke the strike before do so again, then it's
over; your union has been destroyed, not by Mr. Walsh - he could never
achieve that - but by you from within, by deserting us when the going got
tough.
We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that
believes they are standing up for their union, though we greatly
appreciate that, we want you to know that this is really all about
standing up for YOU.
At the end of the day, it's your job, your life, your career and your
bills that have to be paid. British Airways no longer wants you to have
your flying agreements, they have told you that; that's why they have
already introduced new contracts and soon, a new fleet.
What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus,
ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.
90 days notice, that's about it.
Only a few hurdles are still in their way - cabin crews' belief in their
own rights and a strong union to fight for them.
If you chose - and it will be your choice - to break the strike and go to
work, you have effectively and actively chosen to serve notice on both of
these, in that one gesture.
The strike is over imposition. Why? To send a clear message to British
Airways that you value your agreements and are willing to fight to protect
them; this resolve is what will protect you in an uncertain future. If
you're not bothered, then let's stop fooling ourselves, it's over.
Unite has compromised so much to try and get a deal and thus avoid you
having to go on strike, as we know this can be a daunting prospect, but
let's be brutally honest, this has been to the point of being seen as
almost desperate and at times almost embarrassing how conciliatory we were
all prepared to be. While Mr. Walsh has persistently rejected every
compromise, remained openly provocative and deliberately confrontational.
If you are not concerned by all of this, fair enough. Go to work and be
counted by Willy Walsh every single day, on every single news channel
around the world, as a number, a statistic he can use to show how much
cabin crew "support him" and his actions.
It's a blunt message but a true one; there are no hiding places left for
any of us, no fence to sit on - you're either with Mr. Walsh and Mr.
Francis and ALL that they stand for, or your colleagues that are standing
up for what's right. There is no middle ground left anymore.
No second chance, right or wrong, this is a moment in your personal
history.
It's up to you; by all means go to work, but in doing so you are making a
bed for us all to lie in, that is why we are appealing and pleading to
every single person, no matter what decision you made over the previous
strike, to now support yourselves before its too late.
We are sorry if this message sounds a little harsh or even negative, but
what needs to be said needs to be said, before it's too late. If it is
over and your union is destroyed, then your job will change beyond
recognition in the years to come. We do not want there to be any doubt
that we tried to warn you.
Tuesday 18th May - See you there or not, It's up to you...
If you have already decided to break the strike, there are no hard
feelings you are still fellow crew, we would only ask you to consider
printing this out, putting it away in a draw. In few years from now, you
may across it and reflect what might have been.
"If we fight for our rights and our dignity, we cannot promise you that we
will win but if we don't, then we have already lost them."
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Thanks for cross-posting that.
The last faint cries of a discredited Union and its failed strike? Couple that with Woodley's comments about the strike now essentially being about ST restoration and disciplinaries, and I would have thought that any IA next week could prove to be extremely unwise.
Anyway, the ash has grabbed the headlines and the strikers' moment of self-sacrifice. Picketing a non-operating airport will just add more foolishness to the farce.
The last faint cries of a discredited Union and its failed strike? Couple that with Woodley's comments about the strike now essentially being about ST restoration and disciplinaries, and I would have thought that any IA next week could prove to be extremely unwise.
Anyway, the ash has grabbed the headlines and the strikers' moment of self-sacrifice. Picketing a non-operating airport will just add more foolishness to the farce.
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MPN11:
Ian100 had just put it up over at FlyerTalk also.
I find this message interesting in the extreme. Its content challenges the truth of all previous messages Unite/BASSA had been giving to its members and the press regarding the results of the previous strikes.
This is not the message of a Union ready to lead its members on to victory. This is a plea for "No mas".
Sadly, there is no acknowledgement that it was the leaders of BASSA/Unite that brought this situation to this sad state of affairs.
Ian100 had just put it up over at FlyerTalk also.
I find this message interesting in the extreme. Its content challenges the truth of all previous messages Unite/BASSA had been giving to its members and the press regarding the results of the previous strikes.
This is not the message of a Union ready to lead its members on to victory. This is a plea for "No mas".
Sadly, there is no acknowledgement that it was the leaders of BASSA/Unite that brought this situation to this sad state of affairs.
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Those Cabin Crew members looking for a Government save may find Transport Secretary Philip Hammond's comments in today's Times a bit concerning:
Unite has admitted that they have an agreement on the financial portion of the deal. Will militant cabin crew impale themselves over Mr. Holley's cause?
..and speaking of Mr. Holley, he provides the following appalling quote to the Times which reveals just how far BASSA will try to go to damage their workers employer:
Either you work together with the employer to work on in a viable business, or you do what the London dockers did in the 1960s and refuse to countenance any change,” he said.
“How many London dockers are there now?”
“How many London dockers are there now?”
..and speaking of Mr. Holley, he provides the following appalling quote to the Times which reveals just how far BASSA will try to go to damage their workers employer:
Duncan Holley, branch secretary of Bassa — the section of Unite that represents the cabin crew members — yesterday threatened new tactics because the strikes meant that staff were losing wages.
“Our members are not well paid and are not the sort of people who are able to sustain a year out, so we might have to alter our tactics to begin a guerrilla campaign against British Airways,” said Holley.
“There are a lot of options open — calling then cancelling strikes, short strikes, announcing long strikes to hinder bookings.”
“Our members are not well paid and are not the sort of people who are able to sustain a year out, so we might have to alter our tactics to begin a guerrilla campaign against British Airways,” said Holley.
“There are a lot of options open — calling then cancelling strikes, short strikes, announcing long strikes to hinder bookings.”
Paxing All Over The World
The BASSA letter is interesting reading. Just in case there are any CC here, if not, I shall be brief:
British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union will be if you don't.
Correct - not by lawful IA alone. But with global consolidation; European recession and financial crisis not seen in 60 years and a volcano never seen in the history of commercial airlines - then your airline is in the dwang (as we say in South Africa).
What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month of bad publicity just to prove a point?
One hired by the Board of the company to do exactly that.
Their loyalty should be to the airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's image.
Which airline are BASSA remembering? (Post war only)
We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that believes they are standing up for their union ...
Ahhh, it's no longer standing up for the airline is it? I thought that this strike was about making sure that BA knew who cared about them and that the CC wanted to make sure that BA continued as a great airline with great service? Did I miss something?
What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus, ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.
90 days notice, that's about it.
Correct - just like in every other job I have every worked in. The greatest number of people have only got their statutory period of notice, typically 30 days (from either side). Some have 90 days but redundancy is just that and can happen at any time.
The only thing worse than 90 days redundancy notice and full payment of the legal obligations of so-much-£ per-year of service, is the company going bankrupt and everyone losing job AND with no payout. That happens every week in the UK. Just because you are the biggest airline in the UK does not mean it will not happen.
British Airways is not going out of business and is not going to be destroyed by you taking part in lawful industrial action - but your union will be if you don't.
Correct - not by lawful IA alone. But with global consolidation; European recession and financial crisis not seen in 60 years and a volcano never seen in the history of commercial airlines - then your airline is in the dwang (as we say in South Africa).
What CEO in their right mind would drag their own company through a month of bad publicity just to prove a point?
One hired by the Board of the company to do exactly that.
Their loyalty should be to the airline that they remember, not to the one being rebuilt in Mr. Walsh's image.
Which airline are BASSA remembering? (Post war only)
- BOAC commercial
- BOAC + BEA merged
- British Airways nationalised
- British (branded)
- British Airways de-nationalised
- BA plc
We all have to decide what we want; we are grateful for everybody that believes they are standing up for their union ...
Ahhh, it's no longer standing up for the airline is it? I thought that this strike was about making sure that BA knew who cared about them and that the CC wanted to make sure that BA continued as a great airline with great service? Did I miss something?
What stops them from putting you on new fleet, declaring you surplus, ending any part of any agreement they choose? Not a lot to be honest.
90 days notice, that's about it.
Correct - just like in every other job I have every worked in. The greatest number of people have only got their statutory period of notice, typically 30 days (from either side). Some have 90 days but redundancy is just that and can happen at any time.
The only thing worse than 90 days redundancy notice and full payment of the legal obligations of so-much-£ per-year of service, is the company going bankrupt and everyone losing job AND with no payout. That happens every week in the UK. Just because you are the biggest airline in the UK does not mean it will not happen.
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@ PAXboy ... nicely annotated!
The only 'flaw' is that your comments reflect reality, something sadly lacking from the dishonest and deceitful BASSA communications over the past few months.
I hope that tomorrow in the Court will add the ashes of BASSA's pathetic activities to the ash clouds drifting over the UK.
The only 'flaw' is that your comments reflect reality, something sadly lacking from the dishonest and deceitful BASSA communications over the past few months.
I hope that tomorrow in the Court will add the ashes of BASSA's pathetic activities to the ash clouds drifting over the UK.
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Interesting theory on the CC thread. Is Woodley deliberately trying to undermine BASSA?
Originally Posted by TopBunk
Abbey Quote:
Is Tony Woodley actually trying to undermine the BASSA case? Does he fear that BA actually has a very good case for the court hearing tomorrow, which could seriously end up damaging UNITE's bank-balance?
I think you may well be right. Bear in mind also that he has already said that if there is volcanic ash affecting the UK, he will seriously consider cancelling the first of the 5 day strikes.
Ok, so he says this is in deference to the travelling public [excuse me while I choke on a grape
].
In reality it is because:
Is Tony Woodley actually trying to undermine the BASSA case? Does he fear that BA actually has a very good case for the court hearing tomorrow, which could seriously end up damaging UNITE's bank-balance?
I think you may well be right. Bear in mind also that he has already said that if there is volcanic ash affecting the UK, he will seriously consider cancelling the first of the 5 day strikes.
Ok, so he says this is in deference to the travelling public [excuse me while I choke on a grape
].In reality it is because:
- he wants to buy time to see the outcome of the court case so as to limit Unites liabilities, which could financially ruin Unite
- he wants to minimise Unites costs as they pay out £30 per day to strikers
- he sees that BASSA are totally beaten
- he wants to disassociate himself and Unite from BASSA
- he knows that only BASSA can call off the dispute
- he knows by giving BA additional evidence that it is not about 'imposition', he can help protect Unites money for deserving (rather than undeserving) causes
- he knows that BASSA are totally out of his control.
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One of those posts on the main CC thread that make you wonder why they are not being challenged and why are these individuals not seeing what the big picture actually is.:
Posted by Abbey Road:
As I understand BA's empowerment under present terms all they have to do, given the changeable nature of the flight impact of the ash fallout, is to require scheduled crews to report for service, not knowing whether its going to be a "go" or not, and that will give you a rough idea of your striking or non-striking individuals.
Criminey people, this is not rocket science and the militant cabin crew won't find an easy "out" because of a happenstance disruption.
You will be either "In" or "Out", whether you fly or not.
Posted by Abbey Road:
gr8tballsoffire, I'm still not convinced. 
If many/most aircraft are not flying, cabin crew are not required to turn up for work. Consequently, BA don't know who would have been striking, and so has to continue paying them. Surely?
If many/most aircraft are not flying, cabin crew are not required to turn up for work. Consequently, BA don't know who would have been striking, and so has to continue paying them. Surely?
Criminey people, this is not rocket science and the militant cabin crew won't find an easy "out" because of a happenstance disruption.
You will be either "In" or "Out", whether you fly or not.
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baggersup:
Unfortunately at this point in time it seems that BASSA and the militant cabin crew can only further damage themselves.
While Ottergirl speaks of appeasement on the BA CC thread I believe she and others should pause and consider exactly what damage is being done to ALL BA Cabin Crew by the actions and words of this minority.
Do these individuals realize what a disturbing message is being received by the general public when the phrase "guerilla tactics" is used and endorsed by this group?
We are speaking of an AIRLINE for heaven's sake.
To be perfectly blunt, as a passenger I would feel much safer knowing that I was flying without a single striking Cabin Crew member on board. They have gone too far.
Unfortunately at this point in time it seems that BASSA and the militant cabin crew can only further damage themselves.
While Ottergirl speaks of appeasement on the BA CC thread I believe she and others should pause and consider exactly what damage is being done to ALL BA Cabin Crew by the actions and words of this minority.
Do these individuals realize what a disturbing message is being received by the general public when the phrase "guerilla tactics" is used and endorsed by this group?
We are speaking of an AIRLINE for heaven's sake.
To be perfectly blunt, as a passenger I would feel much safer knowing that I was flying without a single striking Cabin Crew member on board. They have gone too far.