BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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BBC News Channel @ 1644 BST
Louisi Minchen has just interviewed a professor in industrial relations at Wolverhampton University. Wow, this was fireworks. He is laying the blame fairly and squarely at BA's door. I was beside myself listening to this "leftie" spout his stuff. If that is the calibre of erudition at our seats of higher learning maybe some of the expected cuts in government spending could start there. The gentlemen was talking absolute tosh. At one point he was asked did he represent the union, he denied this 
of course.
of course.
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Today's hearing
I was very surprised indeed to see that both the Lord Chief Justice and the Master of the Rolls are sitting on the panel hearing this application. That both of them should have been available at such short notice to hear this application seems most unlikely - I suspect that very great importance has been placed on this matter.
No doubt if UNITE lose their application for leave to appeal, the usual derogatory remarks will follow concerning the impartiality of the two most senior judges in the country.
No doubt if UNITE lose their application for leave to appeal, the usual derogatory remarks will follow concerning the impartiality of the two most senior judges in the country.
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On the basis of a complete lack of legal training, my understanding is that a strike is generally illegal only in the sense that it is a breach of contract and contrary to civil law. Except in very special cases, such as in the Police, striking is not a criminal offence.
The portions of the relevant laws that have been quoted on this and the Airline Employeed Only thread mention only protection against unlawful dismissal for taking part in a lawfully constituted strike. I have seen no mention of protection from any other sanctions that an employer may take against strikers.
I suspect that even though the first two strikes were not properly called, and so strikers continued employment was formally not protected, any one dismissed because they struck would have a reasonable chance at a tribunal to claim that they acted in good faith, based on information they were entitled to believe that the strike was properly established. They could well have a case against BASSA for recovery of any costs they incurred through striking. Perhaps they could force BASSA to pay the difference between ST fares and public fares for any flights they, and their families and friends, take on BA - forever!
The portions of the relevant laws that have been quoted on this and the Airline Employeed Only thread mention only protection against unlawful dismissal for taking part in a lawfully constituted strike. I have seen no mention of protection from any other sanctions that an employer may take against strikers.
I suspect that even though the first two strikes were not properly called, and so strikers continued employment was formally not protected, any one dismissed because they struck would have a reasonable chance at a tribunal to claim that they acted in good faith, based on information they were entitled to believe that the strike was properly established. They could well have a case against BASSA for recovery of any costs they incurred through striking. Perhaps they could force BASSA to pay the difference between ST fares and public fares for any flights they, and their families and friends, take on BA - forever!
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*********
As an ex-Court Listing Officer, it is 'highly likely' that HCJ's and above are 'available after lunch'. It could well be that the cases/actions listed for one or all of them today, may well have settled, been withdrawn etc. One of them would possibly have been on duty for an emergency matter. So it is feasable that their Lordships were available, and not hand-picked.
Often my experience in my past life.
Regards
Often my experience in my past life.
Regards
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I suspect that even though the first two strikes were not properly called, and so strikers continued employment was formally not protected, any one dismissed because they struck would have a reasonable chance at a tribunal to claim that they acted in good faith, based on information they were entitled to believe that the strike was properly established.
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I was very surprised indeed to see that both the Lord Chief Justice and the Master of the Rolls are sitting on the panel hearing this application. That both of them should have been available at such short notice to hear this application seems most unlikely - I suspect that very great importance has been placed on this matter.
No doubt if UNITE lose their application for leave to appeal, the usual derogatory remarks will follow concerning the impartiality of the two most senior judges in the country.
No doubt if UNITE lose their application for leave to appeal, the usual derogatory remarks will follow concerning the impartiality of the two most senior judges in the country.
PS How come YOU are Pprune Playmate of the month?????
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PaddyMiguel
we have a new government that is about to bring in huge cuts to public service employees' wages
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Strikes Off
In some ways a great shame as was looking forward to flying with VCC this Friday but now will potentially have contact with the BASSA dinosoaurs who think the world still owes them a living.
WW comments about moving to 100% contingency planning should be carefully noted.
WW comments about moving to 100% contingency planning should be carefully noted.
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On the basis of a complete lack of legal training, my understanding is that a strike is generally illegal only in the sense that it is a breach of contract and contrary to civil law. Except in very special cases, such as in the Police, striking is not a criminal offence.
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"Illegal" is probably the wrong word to use. The Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 uses the terms "Protected" and "Unprotected" Industrial Action. A breach of this act could render the strike "unprotected", but not "illegal".
Dave
Dave
strikers
I rarely post on Prune but this time I am going to speak up.
None of your business I hear some say but it IS my business:
a. My son-in -law, daughter and new grandson depend on BA for their living and the stupidity of this industrial action IS threatening their security when BA is struggling with economic recession not to mention ash clouds and very high fuel prices to name three. What was their loss this last financial year ?
b. I am a customer, my wife and I fly SYD-LHR in Club twice a year and we DO pay our own fare.
c. I am a shareholder.
As I see it, Walsh is addressing the urgent need to improve productivity of BA in times of ruthless competition in the airline industry. Many key employment groups in BA, including pilots, have recognized the need and come to agreements to achieve that efficiency. I understand Walsh has said that CC will NOT lose any pay but DO have to become more productive, hence the reduction in crew numbers. If the rest of BA have made concessions what is so special about cabin crew ?? Beats me.
For those CC who have not yet recognized the reality of the commercial world we live in , let me tell them they ARE seriously threatening the very existence of BA and if you think it is bullet proof remember Swissair, Sabena, Pan Am, Eastern and Ansett, not to mention Laker, Court Line, and Air Europe !
This absurd and unrealistic strike action threatens the very existence of your company and if you really would like to know what it is like to be out of a job, talk to my ex Ansett friend who went from flying a 767, a job he loved, to mowing lawns to make ends (just) meet. He will tell you the reality of it all and its not nice, not nice at all.
And another example, long after I left BA I was a Captain with Britannia. The new incoming CEO, Burnell, made it quite clear we had to improve our efficiency or go out of business. We had an option, work harder with a fleet of brand new 757s or Thomson Corp would shut us down, strike action was pointless, it would merely hasten our demise. We went with Burnell, changed our working practices and the company prospered, no one was made redundant and no one lost commands, in fact some pilots did quite well out of it with the company paying for base moves and in the event we didn't work THAT much harder, but we WERE reaslistic. I believe TUI UK is now worth more than BA on the LSE.
So for God's sake lets hope this High Court ruling once and for all puts an end to this truly absurd industrial action and those CC who supported the strike at last begin to recognize commercial reality and the fact that BASSA has tried to lead you on a path to destruction.
Finally I would say that if these strikers are too callous, selfish, cynical or just plain stupid to see the huge damage they are doing to their employer and just how much risk they are taking with so many other people's jobs and livelihoods, I certainly hope that each and every striker is "replaced" with more astute, realistic, enthusiastic and equally competent people, the smaller British airlines and overseas companies employing expats such as Emirates and Etihad, with less generous conditions than BA are full of such people.
\
Its not too late but the abyss is approaching.
None of your business I hear some say but it IS my business:
a. My son-in -law, daughter and new grandson depend on BA for their living and the stupidity of this industrial action IS threatening their security when BA is struggling with economic recession not to mention ash clouds and very high fuel prices to name three. What was their loss this last financial year ?
b. I am a customer, my wife and I fly SYD-LHR in Club twice a year and we DO pay our own fare.
c. I am a shareholder.
As I see it, Walsh is addressing the urgent need to improve productivity of BA in times of ruthless competition in the airline industry. Many key employment groups in BA, including pilots, have recognized the need and come to agreements to achieve that efficiency. I understand Walsh has said that CC will NOT lose any pay but DO have to become more productive, hence the reduction in crew numbers. If the rest of BA have made concessions what is so special about cabin crew ?? Beats me.
For those CC who have not yet recognized the reality of the commercial world we live in , let me tell them they ARE seriously threatening the very existence of BA and if you think it is bullet proof remember Swissair, Sabena, Pan Am, Eastern and Ansett, not to mention Laker, Court Line, and Air Europe !
This absurd and unrealistic strike action threatens the very existence of your company and if you really would like to know what it is like to be out of a job, talk to my ex Ansett friend who went from flying a 767, a job he loved, to mowing lawns to make ends (just) meet. He will tell you the reality of it all and its not nice, not nice at all.
And another example, long after I left BA I was a Captain with Britannia. The new incoming CEO, Burnell, made it quite clear we had to improve our efficiency or go out of business. We had an option, work harder with a fleet of brand new 757s or Thomson Corp would shut us down, strike action was pointless, it would merely hasten our demise. We went with Burnell, changed our working practices and the company prospered, no one was made redundant and no one lost commands, in fact some pilots did quite well out of it with the company paying for base moves and in the event we didn't work THAT much harder, but we WERE reaslistic. I believe TUI UK is now worth more than BA on the LSE.
So for God's sake lets hope this High Court ruling once and for all puts an end to this truly absurd industrial action and those CC who supported the strike at last begin to recognize commercial reality and the fact that BASSA has tried to lead you on a path to destruction.
Finally I would say that if these strikers are too callous, selfish, cynical or just plain stupid to see the huge damage they are doing to their employer and just how much risk they are taking with so many other people's jobs and livelihoods, I certainly hope that each and every striker is "replaced" with more astute, realistic, enthusiastic and equally competent people, the smaller British airlines and overseas companies employing expats such as Emirates and Etihad, with less generous conditions than BA are full of such people.
\
Its not too late but the abyss is approaching.
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Unite's New Spin Campaign
I post for fellow PPRuners information the text of the full page advert placed by Unite in Tuesday's hard-copy Daily Mirror.
The advert includes a picture of a member of BA cabin crew with the byline 'posed by model to avoid bullying'
It seems from the model's expression that she's had dealings with one of BA's finest in the recent past. She's wearing that 'how dare you awful people disrupt my little jolly by requiring me to do my job' look. She has the look off to a tee - and very frightening it is too
I'm not going to comment - other than to say that it's an indication of the union's total lack of any appreciation of reality that they seek to undo all the damage they have caused with this load of b
t.
BA's bullies are
keeping me grounded
I would rather be doing the job I love, looking after the passengers who keep British Airways in business. Instead, I am fighting for my future. I want to tell you why.
I know airlines are in difficulties. That is why my union, Unite, has agreed to tens of millions of pounds worth of savings to help our company through hard times.
But having got all the cuts and changes required, British Airways is victimising and persecuting loyal and long-serving cabin crew for taking lawful strike action. More than 50 of my colleagues have been suspended or sacked, some with over 30 years of loyal service. Thousands of cabin crew and their families have had long-established travel arrangements scrapped for the rest of their working lives. And we are not allowed to speak to you about any of this on pain of dismissal.
British Airways represents a great British tradition. But there is another great British tradition which the company doesn't get - standing up to bullies. We have voted three times by overwhelming majorities to tell the bully to back off.
Treating cabin crew decently wouldn't cost the company an extra penny. Instead, it is blowing millions on trying to crush and humiliate me, when it has the savings it needs. Passengers, shareholders and the BA board need to be asking Willie Walsh WHY?
Please give us your support and get BA airborne again. Visit
Brutish Airways ? Support the BA Cabin Crew ? There is a better way
to find out the truth about this dispute
keeping me grounded
I would rather be doing the job I love, looking after the passengers who keep British Airways in business. Instead, I am fighting for my future. I want to tell you why.
I know airlines are in difficulties. That is why my union, Unite, has agreed to tens of millions of pounds worth of savings to help our company through hard times.
But having got all the cuts and changes required, British Airways is victimising and persecuting loyal and long-serving cabin crew for taking lawful strike action. More than 50 of my colleagues have been suspended or sacked, some with over 30 years of loyal service. Thousands of cabin crew and their families have had long-established travel arrangements scrapped for the rest of their working lives. And we are not allowed to speak to you about any of this on pain of dismissal.
British Airways represents a great British tradition. But there is another great British tradition which the company doesn't get - standing up to bullies. We have voted three times by overwhelming majorities to tell the bully to back off.
Treating cabin crew decently wouldn't cost the company an extra penny. Instead, it is blowing millions on trying to crush and humiliate me, when it has the savings it needs. Passengers, shareholders and the BA board need to be asking Willie Walsh WHY?
Please give us your support and get BA airborne again. Visit
Brutish Airways ? Support the BA Cabin Crew ? There is a better way
to find out the truth about this dispute
It seems from the model's expression that she's had dealings with one of BA's finest in the recent past. She's wearing that 'how dare you awful people disrupt my little jolly by requiring me to do my job' look. She has the look off to a tee - and very frightening it is too
I'm not going to comment - other than to say that it's an indication of the union's total lack of any appreciation of reality that they seek to undo all the damage they have caused with this load of b
t.
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Bunch of union retards
There is a full page advert in the international Times yesterday, labelled "BA's Bullies are keeping me grounded". As if that wasn't rich enough, they have a link to a website:
Brutish Airways ? Support the BA Cabin Crew ? There is a better way
There you can watch an actress doing her best to come out with the usual bullls*t BASSA lines and some actor playing the "evil management henchman".
It makes you want to stick two fingers down your throat.
They do, however, provide a link to the company secretary's email, so I urge all like-minded SLF to do as I did, and email them with words of support and encouragement, urging them to rid the airline of this cancer of dour, miserable and unwelcoming old militants.
Regards,
Chico
Brutish Airways ? Support the BA Cabin Crew ? There is a better way
There you can watch an actress doing her best to come out with the usual bullls*t BASSA lines and some actor playing the "evil management henchman".
It makes you want to stick two fingers down your throat.
They do, however, provide a link to the company secretary's email, so I urge all like-minded SLF to do as I did, and email them with words of support and encouragement, urging them to rid the airline of this cancer of dour, miserable and unwelcoming old militants.
Regards,
Chico
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Mark Steel: BA strike - a complete load of ballots
For those who need a little light relief whilst the Court of Appeal deliberates, try Mark Steel in The Indie
Mark Steel: BA strike - a complete load of ballots - Mark Steel, Commentators - The Independent
Mark Steel: BA strike - a complete load of ballots - Mark Steel, Commentators - The Independent
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A union in name only: why ballot blunders threaten Unite's resolve
And this article, also in The Indie today, has some very interesting quotes lifted (how?) from the BASSA forum
Andy McSmith: A union in name only: why ballot blunders threaten Unite's resolve - Commentators, Opinion - The Independent
Andy McSmith: A union in name only: why ballot blunders threaten Unite's resolve - Commentators, Opinion - The Independent
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'Bully' BA website
I have just watched this heartrending video, ~(SOB SOB), and it really makes me wonder about the calibre of whomsoever set this rubbish up for Unite! Still I expect the actors had a laugh, I hope they got more than the standard daily rate for their work.
On a further note I used the address in the 'send a comment to the chairman' box, changing the standard UNISON message, to send a very supportive email to Mr Walsh asking him to keep going against BASSA. Thank you Unison.
Oldflboy
On a further note I used the address in the 'send a comment to the chairman' box, changing the standard UNISON message, to send a very supportive email to Mr Walsh asking him to keep going against BASSA. Thank you Unison.
Oldflboy
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BASSA Video
As a video it is full of emoution but light on substance.
A written transcript, minus the near tears etc, would be an odd read indeed and would impart close to no information about the situation, not a clue as to what it is about, although I'm far from certain what the dispute is about myself now anyway!
A written transcript, minus the near tears etc, would be an odd read indeed and would impart close to no information about the situation, not a clue as to what it is about, although I'm far from certain what the dispute is about myself now anyway!