BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
We have heard repeatedly that UNITE represents a number of staff groups in BA. Have the members of these groups pressed their (staff reps / shop stewards / whatever their local names are) to put pressure on UNITE to stop the BASSA nonsense? Have the 'other groups' no power in the union?
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Diplome
Of course we all aprreciate the value of CC on the aircraft, it is expected and mostly appreciated.
Having just flown home with Ryanair last night the contrast between quality and level of service is profound and clearly inferior in that airline relative to BA. Having said that the staff are friendly and willing if not mostly a little inexperienced and sometimes lacking in confidence. What is noticeable on this airline is how the extent of the crews duties seems to expand slightly each time I fy with them. Apart from having to clean the a/c on turnaround I now notice they have to get out of the a/c and marshall the passengers in and out of the bus/terminal in rain as well as shine. Presumably this reduces the handling charges slightly so is bottom line motivated. I wonder how much resistance was shown to O'Leary when this change was introduced. Oh and coming soon on Ryanair unlimited luggage allowance providing you can get it to the ramp where it will be put in the hold, no doubt the cc will be expected to get involved in that as well, no resistance expected.
I will be travelling longhaul with BA on the 21st and will be presenting my cc with a token of appreciation as indeed I did last time I flew during the strike. Incidentally looking at the schedule it seems to me that BA are maintaining a much fuller long haul schedule than last time. Both LHR DEL flights are running every day, this schedule is said to be conservative and will build through each strike period which does not bode well for the strikers at all.
My earlier comments whilst borne out of frustration do raise some vaild points, we all expect to see cc on the a/c because it is the established Norm. Progress however often means challenging the established Norms. Let us not forget that improvements in technology removed firstly the navigator then the flight engineer from civil airliners. At one time such an audacious move was considered reckless but now it is the Norm. Possibly we are only a couple of generations away from pilotless airliners but I suspect before that they will become cc'less very much along the Eurostar model. IA such as this can only accelerate that process.
Having just flown home with Ryanair last night the contrast between quality and level of service is profound and clearly inferior in that airline relative to BA. Having said that the staff are friendly and willing if not mostly a little inexperienced and sometimes lacking in confidence. What is noticeable on this airline is how the extent of the crews duties seems to expand slightly each time I fy with them. Apart from having to clean the a/c on turnaround I now notice they have to get out of the a/c and marshall the passengers in and out of the bus/terminal in rain as well as shine. Presumably this reduces the handling charges slightly so is bottom line motivated. I wonder how much resistance was shown to O'Leary when this change was introduced. Oh and coming soon on Ryanair unlimited luggage allowance providing you can get it to the ramp where it will be put in the hold, no doubt the cc will be expected to get involved in that as well, no resistance expected.
I will be travelling longhaul with BA on the 21st and will be presenting my cc with a token of appreciation as indeed I did last time I flew during the strike. Incidentally looking at the schedule it seems to me that BA are maintaining a much fuller long haul schedule than last time. Both LHR DEL flights are running every day, this schedule is said to be conservative and will build through each strike period which does not bode well for the strikers at all.
My earlier comments whilst borne out of frustration do raise some vaild points, we all expect to see cc on the a/c because it is the established Norm. Progress however often means challenging the established Norms. Let us not forget that improvements in technology removed firstly the navigator then the flight engineer from civil airliners. At one time such an audacious move was considered reckless but now it is the Norm. Possibly we are only a couple of generations away from pilotless airliners but I suspect before that they will become cc'less very much along the Eurostar model. IA such as this can only accelerate that process.
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Mariner9
I've just seen an interview with the new Transport Secretary Phillip Hammond.
Apparently he's having a meeting with BA and UNITE "next week".
The strike is due to start Tuesday for Gods sake. If I'd have been the new Transport Sec I'd have got them in today and not let them out again until either UNITE agree to stop their pointless destructive strike and start looking after ALL their members interests, but if they refuse, instruct WW to issue P45's to all those striking on the first and (if any) subsequent days of the strike. This insanity has got to be stopped once and for all.
Apparently he's having a meeting with BA and UNITE "next week".
The strike is due to start Tuesday for Gods sake. If I'd have been the new Transport Sec I'd have got them in today and not let them out again until either UNITE agree to stop their pointless destructive strike and start looking after ALL their members interests, but if they refuse, instruct WW to issue P45's to all those striking on the first and (if any) subsequent days of the strike. This insanity has got to be stopped once and for all.
Let BA and Unite slug it out for one last time and see who is still standing at the end.
It needs a definitive end, not a political fudge.
IMHO
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I'm sure that BASSA is wishing for a more sympathetic ear than may be found with Mr. Hammond.
From the Telegraph:
Recalling Mr. Cameron's quite pointed commentary regarding Unite's actions I don't believe we will be hearing of BA being berated by Secretary Hammond to give in to militant crew demands.
From the Telegraph:
Meanwhile the Philip Hammond, the new Transport Secretary, appealed to both sides to reach an agreement as he said he hoped to speak to the airline regarding the dispute. "The strike is extremely bad news for the economy, for passengers and potentially for the airline and people who work for it.
Mr Hammond, who has a number of BA staff among his constituents, expressed some sympathy for the difficulties they faced. "I do understand things can be difficult in a changing economy, but the reality is aviation is a global industry."
Mr Hammond, who has a number of BA staff among his constituents, expressed some sympathy for the difficulties they faced. "I do understand things can be difficult in a changing economy, but the reality is aviation is a global industry."
Paxing All Over The World
Thread drift:
beaudale
That doesn't mean the move was appreciated and welcomed by all. It does not mean anything other than saving money. I often read in these various forums that - many times, an extra pair of eyes, ears and hands would make a difference. More critically, Would have made a difference.
Back to CC thread.
beaudale
At one time such an audacious move was considered reckless but now it is the Norm.
Back to CC thread.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Seems to me that if Unite carry on down this road that the new government might start introducing legislation to restrict employees in "essential" industries in taking industrial action.
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Paxboy
Back to CC thread.
A lot has also been said on here about the need to respect all groups and this thread has been moderated accordingly. In this vein I would like to point out that the thread running else where with a theme about "Stupid SLF" is somewhat offensive to the Pax group who do after all pay everyone's salaries.
Last edited by beaudale; 14th May 2010 at 11:13. Reason: Format
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WL
Seems to me that if Unite carry on down this road that the new government might start introducing legislation to restrict employees in "essential" industries in taking industrial action.
I dislike the often used phrase “key worker” which applies to the surgeon but not the cleaner that cleans his work place, applies to the police officer but not the person that services his radio, etc. Business is links, break any one at any height in the food-chain and it all stops or is damaged.
Yes aviation is important, but so are trains, boats, busses and shoes…! No special treatment deserved in my view.
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Courtesy of ian100 at FlyerTalk a message from BALPA.
A reasoned response to BASSA's rhetoric.
A reasoned response to BASSA's rhetoric.
Pilots in British Airways have warned that 'the unprecedented strikes announced by BA cabin crew for May and June will seriously threaten BA's ability to maintain the job security and terms and conditions of employees in all parts of the company.'
And the pilots' union BALPA (British Airline Pilots' Association) has written to new Secretary of State for Transport Philip Hammond and new Business Secretary Vince Cable asking them to intervene.
Said Jim McAuslan, BALPA General Secretary: 'The last three days have changed the face of British politics with erstwhile political opponents coming together for the common good. We call on Government to use that political momentum to help solve what are tired 1970s style industrial relations.
'Without some of that Cameron/Clegg magic this dispute will put the future of a great airline at risk and disrupt the lives of thousands of British families.
'Ministers could get Tony Woodley and Willie Walsh together this weekend and get this strike suspended whilst a solution is hammered out. BALPA stands ready to offer any help it can - we only need to be asked.'
Jim McAuslan has sent Philip Hammond and Vince Cable a statement from BA's pilot representatives who sit on the BALPA Company Council in the airline.
The statement reads:
'BALPA's British Airways Company Council is gravely concerned about the consequences of BASSA's decision to announce a damaging series of four five-day strikes commencing Tuesday 18th May 2010.
'BA faces circumstances that pose a very serious threat to its future - the economic downturn associated with the credit crunch, sustained high fuel prices, an increase in competition in key markets, and volcanic ash causing airspace closures, to name but a few.
'BA pilots and other staff groups, that include members of Unite, have made significant concessions to help BA through such difficulties and it is for all groups within BA to deliver the contribution required in the Company Business Plan.
'Recent industrial action by cabin crew has further damaged BA's finances and the unprecedented strikes just announced for May and June will seriously threaten BA's ability to maintain the job security and terms and conditions of employees in all parts of the Company, including cabin crew.
'The action also undermines the interests of all employees who are members of BA's final salary pension schemes, both of which are in deficit, and reaching a critical point in their triennial valuations.
'The BA Company Council, therefore, urges BASSA and BA to immediately enter meaningful negotiations to resolve their remaining differences and commence the process of rebuilding industrial relations upon which the Company's and employees' future prosperity are dependent.
'BALPA has written to the Secretary of State and the Business Secretary requesting they assist the parties in the conduct of fresh talks so as to avoid further damage to the UK economy and the reputation of BA.
'BALPA remains ready to participate in such talks should it be called upon to do so.'
And the pilots' union BALPA (British Airline Pilots' Association) has written to new Secretary of State for Transport Philip Hammond and new Business Secretary Vince Cable asking them to intervene.
Said Jim McAuslan, BALPA General Secretary: 'The last three days have changed the face of British politics with erstwhile political opponents coming together for the common good. We call on Government to use that political momentum to help solve what are tired 1970s style industrial relations.
'Without some of that Cameron/Clegg magic this dispute will put the future of a great airline at risk and disrupt the lives of thousands of British families.
'Ministers could get Tony Woodley and Willie Walsh together this weekend and get this strike suspended whilst a solution is hammered out. BALPA stands ready to offer any help it can - we only need to be asked.'
Jim McAuslan has sent Philip Hammond and Vince Cable a statement from BA's pilot representatives who sit on the BALPA Company Council in the airline.
The statement reads:
'BALPA's British Airways Company Council is gravely concerned about the consequences of BASSA's decision to announce a damaging series of four five-day strikes commencing Tuesday 18th May 2010.
'BA faces circumstances that pose a very serious threat to its future - the economic downturn associated with the credit crunch, sustained high fuel prices, an increase in competition in key markets, and volcanic ash causing airspace closures, to name but a few.
'BA pilots and other staff groups, that include members of Unite, have made significant concessions to help BA through such difficulties and it is for all groups within BA to deliver the contribution required in the Company Business Plan.
'Recent industrial action by cabin crew has further damaged BA's finances and the unprecedented strikes just announced for May and June will seriously threaten BA's ability to maintain the job security and terms and conditions of employees in all parts of the Company, including cabin crew.
'The action also undermines the interests of all employees who are members of BA's final salary pension schemes, both of which are in deficit, and reaching a critical point in their triennial valuations.
'The BA Company Council, therefore, urges BASSA and BA to immediately enter meaningful negotiations to resolve their remaining differences and commence the process of rebuilding industrial relations upon which the Company's and employees' future prosperity are dependent.
'BALPA has written to the Secretary of State and the Business Secretary requesting they assist the parties in the conduct of fresh talks so as to avoid further damage to the UK economy and the reputation of BA.
'BALPA remains ready to participate in such talks should it be called upon to do so.'
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NO NO NO !! The last thing this dispute needs is some political numpty interfering in something he doesn't understand. No matter how good his "briefing" is it cannot possibly cover all the twists and turns of this dispute.
What utter tripe and rubbish from Balpa.
They have had many months to engage the TUC on this dispute, and have deliberately chosen not to. Why not?
Why seek to engage the government when balpa are too afraid to engage the TUC??
Going back to the bassa "logic" and thinking - they've been right for 30 years, so their thinking is perfectly sensible - continue to act as they are and either BA will give in, - they have for the last 30 years, or, in a couple of years time WW will move on and all the old bad ways will be back.
BA need to change many more managers before they will have changed the culture.
Can you imagine Tesco/Dulux/B & Q asking for the TUs permission to help customers?
Completely daft - but the managers are still doing it.
They have had many months to engage the TUC on this dispute, and have deliberately chosen not to. Why not?
Why seek to engage the government when balpa are too afraid to engage the TUC??
Going back to the bassa "logic" and thinking - they've been right for 30 years, so their thinking is perfectly sensible - continue to act as they are and either BA will give in, - they have for the last 30 years, or, in a couple of years time WW will move on and all the old bad ways will be back.
BA need to change many more managers before they will have changed the culture.
Can you imagine Tesco/Dulux/B & Q asking for the TUs permission to help customers?
Completely daft - but the managers are still doing it.
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Ancient Observer:
You have stated your opinion regarding managers at BA repeatedly and I'm certainly not going to disagree with you at this point.
However a corporate culture is not changed in one day.
What BA is engaged in at the moment is a step in the proper direction.
I also do not find it reasonable to assume that BA is undertaking this battle with the idea that after two years it all reverts back to the way it was. This is not a battle that Mr. Walsh is undertaking in a vacuum. He appears to have the full backing of his Board. They are obviously looking for a result that does effect change.
You have stated your opinion regarding managers at BA repeatedly and I'm certainly not going to disagree with you at this point.
However a corporate culture is not changed in one day.
What BA is engaged in at the moment is a step in the proper direction.
I also do not find it reasonable to assume that BA is undertaking this battle with the idea that after two years it all reverts back to the way it was. This is not a battle that Mr. Walsh is undertaking in a vacuum. He appears to have the full backing of his Board. They are obviously looking for a result that does effect change.
Yup, I know it's boring to read the same thing again, but I was responding to the various posts that implied that bassa had no logic.
I disagree.
They are being completely logical.................it's worked for 30 years, and what worked in the past often works in the future.................
I disagree.
They are being completely logical.................it's worked for 30 years, and what worked in the past often works in the future.................
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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
I have had enough, 6 legs impossibly disrupted over the last three months.
Latest was due to fly to DUS next Wednesday and it is cancelled, so is my meeting, so is my deal.
Those CC who support the strike action are dragging the rest of us down with you. I could bang on about erosion of my current T&C's but it has been highlighted already.
I have had enough, 6 legs impossibly disrupted over the last three months.
Latest was due to fly to DUS next Wednesday and it is cancelled, so is my meeting, so is my deal.
Those CC who support the strike action are dragging the rest of us down with you. I could bang on about erosion of my current T&C's but it has been highlighted already.
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Would you not agree then that logic dictates that plainly it isn't working this time and won't work, as is patently obviously to most sensible people.
Therefore sensible people would sit back and say this isn't working. It is time to move on to something that will work before we are out of a job along with a lot of innocent people directly affected by our actions but beyond their personal control.
Therefore sensible people would sit back and say this isn't working. It is time to move on to something that will work before we are out of a job along with a lot of innocent people directly affected by our actions but beyond their personal control.
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Would you not agree then that logic dictates that plainly it isn't working this time and won't work, as is patently obviously to most sensible people.
Therefore sensible people would sit back and say this isn't working. It is time to move on to something that will work before we are out of a job along with a lot of innocent people directly affected by our actions but beyond their personal control.
Therefore sensible people would sit back and say this isn't working. It is time to move on to something that will work before we are out of a job along with a lot of innocent people directly affected by our actions but beyond their personal control.
I believe what Ancient Observer is referring to, and he/she may and will correct me if I'm wrong, is that BASSA is operating thus because it has always worked. Unfortunately one of the results of the years of letting BASSA run wild is that they have not felt it is necessary or even fruitful to develop a more effective way of communicating.
The messages from their leadership give proof to the traits that are valued in the organization.
To use a rather crude analogy. You have had a dog for several years. During all that time it has piddled on your floor. It piddles every time something bothers it...Room too cold, piddle. Change its food, piddle. But every time the Dog piddles you GIVE IT A TREAT!! The Dog is now 12 and you have decided that you are tired of a damp stinky floor. Does the Dog understand? No, it only knows how to piddle for its treat so it keeps piddling thinking there's a treat in it somewhere...hasn't there always been one?
Well, BASSA is the Dog and BA has decided it needs to be housebroken.
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Jimtherev,
Agree entirely. I have proposed that ALL BA Unite members withhold their subs while the union support the BASSA strike action.
You may have seen copies of the letter that went out to Unite members attempting to justify the strike and my guess is they have already lost large numbers and they are getting worried, The only thing they understand is loss of power and income.
By resigning you demonstrate your support for the company and hit them where it hurts.
Agree entirely. I have proposed that ALL BA Unite members withhold their subs while the union support the BASSA strike action.
You may have seen copies of the letter that went out to Unite members attempting to justify the strike and my guess is they have already lost large numbers and they are getting worried, The only thing they understand is loss of power and income.
By resigning you demonstrate your support for the company and hit them where it hurts.