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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11233227)
Ohhh dear, nevermind
They do seem to suffer a lot of spontaneous combustion at important facilities. I do wonder what/who is causing them, |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11233227)
I’m sorry, but Germany WTF are you doing?
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Becoming?
Remaining! |
# Deutschland, Deutschland, hinter allen...
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So you prefer your good old blitzkrieg huns?
They live a tad closer to Russia on the continent and are no nuclear power for a reason. Add the experience of having been Soviet occupied until 1990 and you would stay on the cautious side yourself. They had to buy out the Russian troops which took until August 1994 and long term commit to import russian gas. Now they are dependent on imports and moving energy imports to new suppliers takes time. |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 11233332)
So you prefer your good old blitzkrieg huns?
They live a tad closer to Russia on the continent and are no nuclear power for a reason. Add the experience of having been Soviet occupied until 1990 and you would stay on the cautious side yourself. They had to buy out the Russian troops which took until August 1994 and long term commit to import russian gas. Now they are dependent on imports and moving energy imports to new suppliers takes time. How many East European countries also have comparatively recent experience of being occupied by Russian troops btw? East European countries that are far closer to Russia and are (were) also dependant upon Russian gas, yet are doing far more for Ukraine. Germany's (in)action, given the strength of their economy and position as one of the 'big two' of the EU, is a travesty. |
Originally Posted by MPN11
(Post 11233330)
# Deutschland, Deutschland, hinter allen...
I don't think that has changed, despite the current Ukraine conflict. Russia will still be there after this war is over, so Germany is engaged in damage control for now. They will be very slow to deliver heavy weapons to Ukraine, partly because they have almost none themselves, partly because they do not want German arms attacking Russians again. Similarly, they are understandably reluctant to trash their economy by ending their use of Russian energy, as that is an own goal with no offsetting benefit for Ukraine, Obviously, this means that they are assuming that there will be a negotiated settlement .. That assumption may be in error, as the 'break the back' comments of the US Defense Secretary suggest that a clear defeat of the Russian invasion is the US/NATO objective |
Originally Posted by etudiant
(Post 11233345)
Germany is conscious that it has recent history with Russia, unlike the rest of Europe. consequently they had a political consensus to deal with Russia as a friendly country after the Soviet Union collapsed.
I don't think that has changed, despite the current Ukraine conflict. Russia will still be there after this war is over, so Germany is engaged in damage control for now. They will be very slow to deliver heavy weapons to Ukraine, partly because they have almost none themselves, partly because they do not want German arms attacking Russians again. Similarly, they are understandably reluctant to trash their economy by ending their use of Russian energy, as that is an own goal with no offsetting benefit for Ukraine, Obviously, this means that they are assuming that there will be a negotiated settlement .. That assumption may be in error, as the 'break the back' comments of the US Defense Secretary suggest that a clear defeat of the Russian invasion is the US/NATO objective. . |
No, they arm up, move forward own troops to protect fellow NATO countries, deliver arms and train Ukrainians, pay for many things elsewhere, house quite a few refugees and keep deliberately quiet about it as they have no party gate to cover up.
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Germany and Italy have agreed to pay Russia in Roubles for their gas imports.
Guess they won’t be cutting back on their imports any time soon. |
No surprise almost half of their gas is imported from Russia. Different to -say- France (24 percent) or NL (11 percent). It looks like a matter of time until they cut it off or get cut off anyway. But this will hurt Russia even more and it looks like a final financial blow to Russia kept at hand if needed. Russia had owned some gas tank farms in Germany and decided to have them almost empty right before they invaded. Now the Germans scramble to retake control and top off their bloody gas storages.
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Germany is conscious that it has recent history with Russia, unlike the rest of Europe. Sounds familiar...? You'd think they's have a better developed sense of conscious after that rather than the craven appeasement they currently seem to favour. It almost seems as if they haven't learned. Or worse; much, much worse, they don't appear to see the wrong in it... Can you imagine Israel remaining unmoved over the organised extermination of Millions of any other race...? Germany, wake up! - before you die in your culpable slumber of utter, craven shame. |
In the mid-90's, I spent 6 months in Sarajevo on a UN assignment on behalf of HM Govt.
I fear to say that some of the other countries represented there were painful to deal with. France, Germany and `Spain to name three. Denmark, Sweden and other relatively minor nations were fantastic. And I have to say that Denmark in particular was brilliant in its dealing with genocide and graves for victims of the atrocities. I attended one exhumation in a small village - and it was a memorable event for all the wrong reasons. The major contributions to the resuscitation of Bosnia/Herzogovina were - in my opinion - by the UK and the USA. Ukraine will be a very different challenge when/if Russia leaves anything there. |
Russia will be made to pay for the damage and repairs needed for some time to come.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 11233378)
Russia will be made to pay for the damage and repairs needed for some time to come.
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Rather haunting final hours of Azovstal
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Is it me or are things changing, Germany, France and Italy faltering, Russian reports of destroying a lot of western aid, the retired General talking at a parliamentary select committee more or less writing Ukraine off as a buffer giving the rest of us a chance to rearm, something that sadly appears to fall on deaf ears until it will be to late.
And Russias push in the Donbass after the fall of Mariupol freeing up troops who are slowly pushing the brave Ukrainians back who those destroyed weapons were for, and finally Zelensky sounding downbeat and no longer pushing the give us the weapons and we can win, but rather it will be settled at the negotiating table. i truly hope i am reading it wrong. If any countries start to breach the sanctions fuel wise the other countries should warn them that it will treat their exports unfavourably if they continue. |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11233394)
and finally Zelensky sounding downbeat and no longer pushing the give us the weapons and we can win, but rather it will be settled at the negotiating table.
i truly hope i am reading it wrong. And the compromises necessary? Ukraine split in half? |
Gentlemen; this thread is rapidly becoming music to Mr P's ears. Let's lay off slagging other countries and being downbeat about the result. As for negotiating, I suspect Zelensky's final line is "you get out of Ukraine or we will, over time, grind you down."
The West is still united,albeit some giving more than others. Perhaps the arms being held back will prove very useful on the Finnish/Russian border. Call me a deluded optimist, but I still believe that Ukraine is going to win. |
Originally Posted by Herod
(Post 11233406)
Gentlemen; this thread is rapidly becoming music to Mr P's ears. Let's lay off slagging other countries and being downbeat about the result. As for negotiating, I suspect Zelensky's final line is "you get out of Ukraine or we will, over time, grind you down."
The West is still united,albeit some giving more than others. Perhaps the arms being held back will prove very useful on the Finnish/Russian border. Call me a deluded optimist, but I still believe that Ukraine is going to win. |
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