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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

ORAC 20th May 2022 08:21

“Russian troops have begun operating at a company scale rather than at the level of a BTG to focus on seizing specific villages in Donbas, according to US officials…

A pro-Russian military Telegram channel criticized the current Russian strategy, claiming that Russian forces are hitting a “strategic dead end” and are suffering significant losses trying to slowly capture small villages in different directions.”…

NutLoose 20th May 2022 09:02

A change in tactics for the better or simply no longer have the manpower or resources to do large scale attacks?

You have to be screwed when even a bunch of folks watching it pan out on their PC are telling you that you are doing it all wrong.

Jerry Atrick 20th May 2022 09:06


Originally Posted by macmp419 (Post 11232551)
Posted earlier in Jet Blast, and worthy of an hour or so of your time.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/inde...8-bcccde927d06

Are they finally now going to get it?

I vote the general for next PM. What a guy.

NutLoose 20th May 2022 09:19

https://theglobalherald.com/news/ukr...in-the-donbas/

Nuff said.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....86066cc689.png

Totally agree with htis assesment

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/19...-military-aid/


Russia is approaching the limits of the combat-capable manpower it can make available for the war in the short term. It has committed a significant portion of its combat-capable units to Ukraine and has suffered major losses. Troops have been pulled from every possible direction: private military contractors redeployed, recruits ginned up from Syria, and locals in occupied areas forcefully conscripted. Few options remain.

It would take Putin months to put new, usable combat troops into Ukraine. Once rejuvenated, however, Russian military progress in Ukraine could look very different if it attacks from its current lines, compared with its starting positions from February. Meanwhile, in the months or years leading up to that renewed offensive, Russia’s presence in the southeast would impose a perpetual burden on Ukraine to defend this vast front line.

While Russian forces have begun to entrench defensively in the east and south, they are concurrently still trying to advance. The West must help the Ukrainians get a broader counteroffensive underway before Russia transitions to a coherent and planned defense, which it has not yet done.

The longer Russia is allowed to stay, the costlier it becomes to drive it out. Time also gives Putin an opportunity to adapt the Russian people to the idea of a long war and put the Russian economy on a wartime footing.

The West’s attention is focused on Russia’s war in Ukraine, but this Western attention is not a constant nor a given. Putin has achieved some of his advances over the past 20 years simply by outlasting the West in the information space. The West should provide Ukraine with weapons at the pace and scale that matches the requirement of a Ukrainian campaign to expel Russian forces and liberate its people and land.

dead_pan 20th May 2022 10:01


The West’s attention is focused on Russia’s war in Ukraine, but this Western attention is not a constant nor a given. Putin has achieved some of his advances over the past 20 years simply by outlasting the West in the information space. The West should provide Ukraine with weapons at the pace and scale that matches the requirement of a Ukrainian campaign to expel Russian forces and liberate its people and land.
Except that the 'advances' Putin has made over the past 20 years have predominantly been in Russia's backyard (Chechnya, Georgia) or in places the West had effectively written off (Syria) - not much to crow about in the grand scheme. They've certainly made some advances in the West if you count nice houses, yachts etc, but all of these are now for nowt - they'll never their likes any time soon if at all, at least until the Ukraine issue is solved to the West's liking (reparations and all).

I do hope they think their (now) incremental gains in the Donbas are worth the cost to their military, economy, international reputation, long-term prospects as a nation etc etc.

NutLoose 20th May 2022 10:50

Plus they probably had a view of walking into a thriving productive area, then promptly destroyed anything of value. meaning if they manage to hold onto anything it will cost them years and billions of dollars before they see a red cent... pun intended, out of the place. I bet they will provide didly squat to improve the regions.
Just like the people of Kherson who were pro'ish Russia in places are finding out, lack of fuel and drugs meaning those that were pro Russia are rapidly turning..


dead_pan 20th May 2022 11:05


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11232730)
Just like the people of Kherson who were pro'ish Russia in places are finding out, lack of fuel and drugs meaning those that were pro Russia are rapidly turning..

Add to that the fact that any male of fighting age who had pro-Russian sympathies has been drafted into the military ("you wanted to be part of Russia - now go fight for the Motherland!"). Honestly, what a bunch of dimwits - what they think would happen?? Zero sympathy from me.

[email protected] 20th May 2022 11:53


I vote the general for next PM. What a guy.
absolutely - unfortunately he seems to have intellect, honesty and integrity............and he can talk coherently without making choo choo noises.

In the last few minutes of the video he points out that redressing the parlous state of our armed forces would require leadership and cohesion from the PM, Chancellor, Sec state for Def and Home Secretary - with the clowns we have presently in those positions, not much hope for us.

fdr 20th May 2022 11:55


Originally Posted by macmp419 (Post 11232551)
Posted earlier in Jet Blast, and worthy of an hour or so of your time.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/inde...8-bcccde927d06

Are they finally now going to get it?

There is someone in the building who has no illusions on what is happening. The surprise is that the committee is also well aware of the needs vs the status of play.

NutLoose 20th May 2022 12:14

I do not know if this is true, looks like Putin is having to resort to his new toys.


The Helpful Stacker 20th May 2022 13:20


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11232766)
absolutely - unfortunately he seems to have intellect, honesty and integrity............and he can talk coherently without making choo choo noises.

In the last few minutes of the video he points out that redressing the parlous state of our armed forces would require leadership and cohesion from the PM, Chancellor, Sec state for Def and Home Secretary - with the clowns we have presently in those positions, not much hope for us.

Indeed. The 'best and brightest' rarely enter into politics and the quality of the current cabinet ministers and shadow ministers very much support this view. They are two groups chosen more for their political reliability than ability in their respective briefs.

"Lions led by donkeys" starts at the very top of government, unfortunately.

The impact of Russian influence over the last decade or so on our mechanisms of state should, of course, not be ignored. How much of the criticism the good General has towards the UK's short-sighted and misdirected defence policy has come about as a result of Russian political interference?

It would be interesting to have an honest appraisal released, unredacted, by the security services.

peter we 20th May 2022 13:34


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11232744)
Add to that the fact that any male of fighting age who had pro-Russian sympathies has been drafted into the military ("you wanted to be part of Russia - now go fight for the Motherland!"). Honestly, what a bunch of dimwits - what they think would happen?? Zero sympathy from me.

few people in Ukraine are pro-Russian, regardless of their language skills. The have seen the disaster in Donbass since 2014 and don't want it. Before February the whole country was 95% anti Russian.

Ninthace 20th May 2022 15:23

I am intrigued by the current rush to supply Ukraine with Harpoon to “lift the blockade”. I am aware that ships are not moving at present but is there a blockade as such in place? I thought the issue was more one of the chances of bumping into a mine. I have not seen any reports of Russian vessels actually actually interfering with shipping and I am not sure how effective a missile that is limited to 250 km can be. That is not far enough to prevent the Russians using any of their naval ports and it is over 500 km from Odessa to Turkish waters as the crow flies, which I would have thought gives them scope form a blockade out of range.

I believe it is not clear who is responsible for the mines, but if they are free floating, as I have seen suggested, clearing them is going to be a problem and I would have thought the only solution would be convoys preceded by mine hunters which is a problem if to don’t have a navy.

I am also not sure what use the majority of the Russian Navy is at present. Does it have any role beyond support of an amphibious assault or firing missiles from offshore? In respect of the latter threat, these seem to be sm launched so Harpoon is no threat to them.

WillFlyForCheese 20th May 2022 15:39

Somewhat provocative flight path by the Russian Air Force over the Black Sea. Probably headed into Sevastopol - but still an interesting flight path. The US’s Global Hawk is not far off.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....24dd29f5e.jpeg

dead_pan 20th May 2022 15:54


Originally Posted by peter we (Post 11232805)
few people in Ukraine are pro-Russian, regardless of their language skills. The have seen the disaster in Donbass since 2014 and don't want it. Before February the whole country was 95% anti Russian.

I'd read that people in the likes of Melitopol and in the far east of Ukraine were broadly welcoming of the Russian forces, at least at the beginning, hence their apparent progress here.

As others have pointed out they may be a little more circumspect now. By way of example, I did see a video of some women living in the Donbas who were asking a Russian official as to the whereabouts of their husbands who'd been conscripted. They were less than impressed with his response, basically telling them he had no idea.

dead_pan 20th May 2022 16:01


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11232859)
I am intrigued by the current rush to supply Ukraine with Harpoon to “lift the blockade”. I am aware that ships are not moving at present but is there a blockade as such in place? I thought the issue was more one of the chances of bumping into a mine. I have not seen any reports of Russian vessels actually actually interfering with shipping and I am not sure how effective a missile that is limited to 250 km can be. That is not far enough to prevent the Russians using any of their naval ports and it is over 500 km from Odessa to Turkish waters as the crow flies, which I would have thought gives them scope form a blockade out of range.

I believe it is not clear who is responsible for the mines, but if they are free floating, as I have seen suggested, clearing them is going to be a problem and I would have thought the only solution would be convoys preceded by mine hunters which is a problem if to don’t have a navy.

I am also not sure what use the majority of the Russian Navy is at present. Does it have any role beyond support of an amphibious assault or firing missiles from offshore? In respect of the latter threat, these seem to be sm launched so Harpoon is no threat to them.

I wondered whether it would be possible to transport the grain to Romania by rail or ship (hugging the Ukraine coast within Ukraine's ASM and SAM missile shield), for on-shipment from one of its ports on a neutral flagged vessel (if necessary with an escort to Turkish territorial waters)?

ORAC 20th May 2022 17:09

BREAKING: Russia's Gazprom informs Finland that it will suspend natural gas exports tomorrow.

Timmy Tomkins 20th May 2022 17:35

The General
 

Originally Posted by Jerry Atrick (Post 11232695)
I vote the general for next PM. What a guy.

What?A PM on top of their subject, who has a sense of duty and profesionalism with a clear vision of how to improve the lot of the country? Whatever next?

A fascinating listen and thanks to macmp419 for the link.

We are rather scarily open about our deficiencies though,

peter we 20th May 2022 17:51


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11232869)
I wondered whether it would be possible to transport the grain to Romania by rail or ship (hugging the Ukraine coast within Ukraine's ASM and SAM missile shield), for on-shipment from one of its ports on a neutral flagged vessel (if necessary with an escort to Turkish territorial waters)?

they transport it by rail to the Danube. And the first rail to Romania then ship was a week ago. Major effort to rail to Gdansk also planned.

Tengah Type 20th May 2022 18:12

The main problem, as I see it, is Train hundreds of tons and Ship thousands of tons per load . Also Odessa to Middle East a bit shorter route rather than through Gdansk. But needs must.


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