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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

ORAC 16th May 2022 19:27

Reports on Twitter and Telegram that, on government orders, the remnants of the Azovstal garrison has surrendered.

President Zelenskyy about to make a broadcast.

Early reports were that the Russians had said they were to be evacuated into Russian held territory - which wouldn’t have said much for their chances of survival.

Latest reports are of stops for groups of Russian POWs.

Fingers crossed that they don’t get massacred.

NutLoose 16th May 2022 19:38

RT appears to be filming them leaving, that has to be good, there is no way of quietly disposing of them when they are shown to be alive on the news.


Ukraine's Alamo, and some…

NutLoose 16th May 2022 20:14

It might be a prisoner exchange for those wounded in Mariupol and possibly more.. so glad it’s happening, rarely do you use the word hero in the true sense, but everyone of them are, to hold out against such odds, against so many for so long.


ORAC 16th May 2022 21:18

BOOM! BOOM! As Basil Brush used to say.

Going as fast as could to get out of the minefield before he hit a mine. Reminds me of an old joke…


NutLoose 16th May 2022 21:30

Someone on Russian TV is having a reality moment….

https://twitter.com/hashtag/WarInUkr...=hashtag_click

ORAC 16th May 2022 21:32

Ukrainian combat engineers accomplishing what their Russian equivalents could not - a crossing over the Donetsk…


Lonewolf_50 16th May 2022 21:42


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11231196)
Russian media is spreading the conspiracy that Poland wants to annex Smolensk and Vilnius.

Isn't Vilnius the capital of a NATO nation as well? :bored: Poland would have to go through all of Belarus to get to Smolensk. These assertions make no sense.

And oddball factoid with a trace of aviation content: Smolensk is a 'sister city' to Colorado Springs (which is where the US Air Force Academy can be found).

WhatsaLizad? 17th May 2022 05:53


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11231261)
Poland would have to go through all of Belarus to get to Smolensk. These assertions make no sense..

In order to inspire imaginary visions of a heroic defense of the motherland from the western hordes, the threat and the possible battlefield location must be somewhat believable.

Given recent events and the availability of transport to the potential battlefield, that location basically means within walking distance of the barracks, hence Smolensk.

ORAC 17th May 2022 06:23

Consequences…

https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...ting-vehicles/

Polish pick MBDA’s Brimstone missile for their new fleet of tank-busting vehicles

LONDON — The British arm of pan-European missile maker MBDA has struck an agreement with the Polish military to provide its Brimstone missile for a new fleet of tank busters being developed by a local industrial consortium led by PGZ.

The deal comes just weeks after MBDA UK concluded a separate deal with Warsaw to accelerate the delivery of a new ground-based air defense system…..

A spokesman for the company said MBDA had been talking with the Poles about possible multiple applications of the weapon but said he was unaware of whether the current agreement for the tank buster vehicle carried provision for other applications.

PGZ chief executive Sebastian Chwalek said in a statement accompanying the announcement that the deal would strengthen cooperation with British industry.

“In difficult times it is good to have partners one can rely on.”……

Britain originally signed a deal last year to supply Poland with MBDA’s Common Anti-air Module Missile (CAMMS) and launcher as its part of an ground-based anti-air program known as NAREW. But in April the British agreed to accelerate delivery of the first two missile systems to later this year.….

The original schedule envisaged the weapon being made available in 2027 but the Russian attack on Ukraine, Poland’s neighbor, changed that.

The British Army deployed its own CAMMS based anti-air system, known as Sky Sabre, to Poland earlier this year as a stop gap to boost local air defenses.

clareprop 17th May 2022 06:27

If you have thirty minutes, this is an eye-opener on the 'quality' of an 'elite' Russian infantry officer (and some of his colleagues), snapshots of his private life over the 6 months leading up to the invasion, his assignment to Ukraine and the slow realisation that things may not be going well...


DaveReidUK 17th May 2022 06:42


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11231253)
Someone on Russian TV is having a reality moment….

https://twitter.com/hashtag/WarInUkr...=hashtag_click

"However much we would hate to admit this, virtually the entire world is against us"

WideScreen 17th May 2022 06:53


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11231248)
BOOM! BOOM! As Basil Brush used to say.

Going as fast as could to get out of the minefield before he hit a mine. Reminds me of an old joke…

To me, this looks like a blind panic mode. Immediately confirming what we hear all over the place about the state of the Russian army.

Beamr 17th May 2022 07:32

If true, Putin really is akin to Hitler. This is so unbelievable that it probably is true. And it also explains the stubborness of Russian troops to execute the orders they receive. A battalion gets wiped out on a river bank, no problem, send another battalion. It's 1939 all over again.

The Guardian: Putin involved in war ‘at level of colonel or brigadier’, say western sources
The Russian president is helping determine the movement of forces in the Donbas, they added, where last week the invaders suffered a bloody defeat as they tried on multiple occasions to cross a strategic river in the east of Ukraine.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...estern-sources

The Helpful Stacker 17th May 2022 09:37


Originally Posted by clareprop (Post 11231351)
If you have thirty minutes, this is an eye-opener on the 'quality' of an 'elite' Russian infantry officer (and some of his colleagues), snapshots of his private life over the 6 months leading up to the invasion, his assignment to Ukraine and the slow realisation that things may not be going well...

The Occupier

It's certainly an interesting clip.

Something that really stands out to me is...has the Russian Army got a huge problem with "grade/rank inflation"?

The guy in the clip was (?) a lieutenant, yet from what we saw of his actions he seemed to be doing little more (and in some cases, less) than a JNCO in the British Army would be expected to do.

I've read and seen mentioned elsewhere that the Russian military doesn't have the non-commissioned ethos that Western militaries have (where the vast amount of day-to-day running of units at operational level is largely in NCO hands) and if so, what do non-commissioned ranks generally do in the Russian military?

dead_pan 17th May 2022 10:29


Originally Posted by clareprop (Post 11231351)
If you have thirty minutes, this is an eye-opener on the 'quality' of an 'elite' Russian infantry officer (and some of his colleagues), snapshots of his private life over the 6 months leading up to the invasion, his assignment to Ukraine and the slow realisation that things may not be going well...

A few things which struck me about this: Drink! And more drink! On reflection probably not that different to your average western twentysomething.

The combat scenes, such as they were, did suggest whatever part of invasion the protagonist was involved with was a bit shambolic and disorganised (how many times did he not even know what day it was?).

dead_pan 17th May 2022 10:36

Some pretty amazing combat footage (apols if its already been posted here or elsewhere):


NutLoose 17th May 2022 10:51

A new take on Putin the boot in, the trouble is he's kicking his own team.


Russian failures fuelled by Vladimir Putin’s meddling

The president and General Valery Gerasimov are accused of dictating basic troop movements

President Putin is making low-level tactical decisions that would normally be decided by an officer in charge of as few as 700 Russian troops, western military sources say.

A military source said that Putin and General Valery Gerasimov, chief of the general staff, were dictating basic movements of their forces in Ukraine.

“We think Putin and Gerasimov are involved in tactical decision-making at a level we would normally expect to be taken by a colonel or a brigadier”, the source said.

He added that it was believed Putin’s most senior general was still “up and running” despite claims that he had been suspended after military failures.

A second military source said that in the Russian military, a colonel or brigadier would normally command the equivalent of two battalion tactical groups (BTGs), each comprising approximately 900 personnel. However, the source said that the Russian BTGs had been “battered” and that “if Putin is doing the job of a brigade commander . . . he could be delving into a force that could be as small as 700 to 1,000 soldiers”.

He compared the situation to the founder of Amazon: “Jeff Bezos doesn’t deliver your parcels, he makes strategy decisions.”

Western sources believe that Putin’s micromanagement of the war could be contributing to the military failures in the Donbas region, where Russian troops are failing to take cities.

Putin, a former KGB officer, revealed several years ago that he commanded an artillery battalion during the Soviet era. “I received the rank of lieutenant as an artilleryman, as the commander of a howitzer artillery battalion . . . 122mm [calibre],” he said during a visit to Peter and Paul Fortress in St Petersburg, according to video posted by the Kremlin.

Admiral Sir Tony Radakin, head of Britain’s armed forces, said in parliament yesterday that Ukraine was winning the war against Russia because it was an “existential fight for its nation”. He said he believed that the survival of the Kyiv administration was guaranteedIgor Girkin, also known as Igor Strelkov, a former FSB agent who orchestrated the annexation of Crimea in 2014, said in comments circulated on social media that Russia’s operation in Donbas had failed. “In more than two weeks of fierce hostilities, only tactical successes have been reached,” he wrote.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-failures-fuelled-by-vladimir-putins-meddling-hdpjhh0bz

Interesting read
on how the war is going.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...essment-may-14

You REALLY WANT TO READ THIS, remember the retired Colonel on State TV telling the Russians how it is... a rare admittance that all is not well, (that I linked on here) well he published a paper on the third of Feb giving his views on a possible war and how it might go, I have posted the google translated link below. It gives an insight as to Russia's thinking on the invasion.

https://nvo-ng-ru.translate.goog/rea..._x_tr_pto=wapp

here is his 2015 assessment.

https://russiandefpolicy.com/2015/03...ld-war-begins/


The Black Sea Fleet today, to our great regret, is a branch of the Central Naval Museum. On the ships of the BSF it would be possible to study the history of Soviet shipbuilding in the 1960-1970s.

Geriaviator 17th May 2022 11:43

Something happening in Black Sea? RAF Rivet Joint lit up heading east is now about 150 miles SE of Sevastopol. Private Camcopter flying rectangular pattern at 1400 ft up to 70 miles off the Romanian coast. Filling stations orbiting in south Romania as usual. Anything more on the landing craft etc said to have left Novorossisk?

dead_pan 17th May 2022 11:52


Originally Posted by Geriaviator (Post 11231469)
Something happening in Black Sea? RAF Rivet Joint lit up heading east is now about 150 miles SE of Sevastopol. Private Camcopter flying rectangular pattern at 1400 ft up to 70 miles off the Romanian coast. Filling stations orbiting in south Romania as usual. Anything more on the landing craft etc said to have left Novorossisk?

Even more bizarrely, there's a Nordwind A330 heading from Moscow to Sochi, currently tracking over eastern Ukraine just to the north of Luhansk (at least according to FR)....


NutLoose 17th May 2022 12:26

It say they have deployed all their subs to sea

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-black...7Vkz9c7dDV2QsU



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