Is Ukraine about to have a war?

[NutLoose]

More high quality footage of the Bridge in Kherson

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...13358449061888

Twitter

[NutLoose]

It seems the temporary Russian Kherson region that they still retain is now leaderless.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...DTyb6I7posAAAA

Twitter

[NutLoose]

Very good read on the cost of the Russian missiles being used and also on how long to restock ( 5 yrs)

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/what_...iles-4709.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/how_m...date-4646.html

[NutLoose]

Well he does not appear to have problems with the russian tank traps.

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...DQldzfu5gsAAAA

Twitter

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...OzxMX_z8u1ywEw

It is reported that a refinery plant in Russia, 170 km from the border with Ukraine, was attacked by a drone.

​​​​​​​https://meduza.io/news/2022/11/16/gu...bazu-pod-orlom

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

Do you not think that a single strike on any base etc that has launched a missile into a nato country is not a proportional response if proved to be the case?

A NATO response, taken collectively, is done after consultation, not as a reflex. You do not understand Article V.
Now take your 'This is War' reflex and eat crow.
Poland Says Missile Was Likely Fired by Ukraine Air Defense (msn.com)

Originally Posted by JanetFlight

So...if that is the case, would Poland and NATO invoke the article 5 against Ukraine?

If the clueless were in charge, perhaps, but fortunately they are not.
(I found your post amusing enough to chuckle as I sipped my coffee. )

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Croatia 🇭🇷 will provide Ukraine 🇺🇦 with 14 Mi-8 helicopters to get US Blackhawk helicopters in return reports a Croatian Newspaper.

Great news (yes, I am biased, I flew them a long time ago, good aircraft) and I note that they had no interest in the NH 90.

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown

This only happened because Russia is firing missiles at Ukraine.

True.

Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins

"Never let a good crisis go to waste" Article 4 allows enhanced security measures to be taken. So now is the time for that aicraft deal to be resurected. US F16s for Polish Migs etc that can now legitimately go to Ukraine, along with any other goodies deemed necessary

As long as the Poles have the runways and airbases to operate from, and get the support / ground equipment, yeah, seems a good chance for an upgrade.
Gotta hand it to the Viper team: a design (with upgrades, of course) that has stood the test of time and is beginning to remind me of the C-130 as regards usability and popularity.
@gums, you and the gang done good!

But hang on: now that Sweden is about to Join NATO, maybe the Grippen would be an option?
*gets popcorn*

[Tartiflette Fan]

Originally Posted by JanetFlight

So...if that is the case, would Poland and NATO invoke the article 5 against Ukraine?

Yes ....superbly inciteful question. Come back in another 20 years, will you ? Following parts of your Pprune biography fully verified

.Biography Crazy
Location Southern Shores of Lusitania Kingdom
Interests Hunting Demons
Occupation HeadBanging

[Sue Vêtements]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

Russians film a tank trying to breech a Pyramid from their defence line as a demonstration of their effectiveness

Aren't they just showing everyone how crap their tanks are?

[Tartiflette Fan]

Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements

Aren't they just showing everyone how crap their tanks are?

and their engineers. if the "teeth" are simply plonked down individually , with no inter-connection - any bladed tank will just be able to punch through at any point to enable a break-through.

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by Buster Hyman

If correct, thank God wiser heads prevailed & it was fully investigated before acting.

yes NATO saying it was a Ukrainian missile

[fdr]

Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan

and their engineers. if the "teeth" are simply plonked down individually , with no inter-connection - any bladed tank will just be able to punch through at any point to enable a break-through.

A Rome plow blade will be quite handy on the front of a tank taking them on.

[fdr]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

yes NATO saying it was a Ukrainian missile

NATO also note that irrespective of who fired it, the missile is related to aggression in contravention of UN resolutions, in self-defense by Ukraine. Much like murder statutes in the USA, where someone gets shot by the police during an action related to dealing with criminal activity. The criminal has a liability for the consequences of their actions.

No further word from Moldova, an errant S-300 fired in self-defense is looking like the case, with Russia still the responsible party.

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50

A NATO response, taken collectively, is done after consultation, not as a reflex. You do not understand Article V.
Now take your 'This is War' reflex and eat crow.

Yes I do understand it and that it is an agreement between all countries and all agree, I never said or inferred otherwise, What I said was as a proportionate response would be a single strike at the point of origin as opposed to ramping it all up. .
Now take your 'This is War' reflex and eat crow.

[dead_pan]

NATO should immediately invoke Article V and invade Ukraine, and hold whoever was responsible for this heinous attack to account. Surely Russia would accept this?

[NutLoose]

Where would you stop? the Kerch bridge?

BTW let's not forget the two innocent Poles in all of this, just going about their daily lives.

[Timmy Tomkins]

Originally Posted by Video Mixdown

Whatever the source of the missile I too find this rush to absolve Russia of blame distasteful. This only happened because Russia is firing missiles at Ukraine.

I agree and whilst NATO has sort of said that too we are still awaiting a response and there should be one. Not necessarily a strike but use the opportunity to put more kit - whatever form - into Ukraine and anywhere else that may be useful. What's Putin gonns do?

[Video Mixdown]

Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins

I agree and whilst NATO has sort of said that too we are still awaiting a response and there should be one. Not necessarily a strike but use the opportunity to put more kit - whatever form - into Ukraine and anywhere else that may be useful. What's Putin gonns do?

What they need is something that can hit the Tu-95/Tu-160 that are launching missiles at them.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

Yes I do understand it

You have yet to demonstrate that.

TW let's not forget the two innocent Poles in all of this, just going about their daily lives.

Yeah, it matters not to them, now, where that came from.

Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins

I agree and whilst NATO has sort of said that too we are still awaiting a response and there should be one. Not necessarily a strike but use the opportunity to put more kit - whatever form - into Ukraine and anywhere else that may be useful. What's Putin gonna do?

About what he already has done, probably, given the billions in aid and kit already provided to Ukraine.
I saw something in the news about a new aid package being bandied about in Washington to the tune of over 30 billion, will see if anything substantive is in that story.
I am guessing more air defense, and more artillery, and more fundamental stuff like winter clothes and spare parts. And ammo.
This is kind of vague, not sure of the rumors of the 30 billion is a rumor, or if that number came from somewhere credible (Secretary of State, House of Representatives, etc).

Says here that the Swedes are offering some more Air Defense assets.

STOCKHOLM, Nov 16 (Reuters) - Sweden will deliver new military aid worth 3 billion crowns ($287 million) to Ukraine, its biggest package of defence material to date which included an air defence system, Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said.

[Confusious]