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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:14
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The guy’s a bloody bore, all be it a dangerous one…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795

Nato has tuned Ukraine into a theatre of war - Putin

This has been a long speech – 30 minutes and counting. Putin is only just getting to Nato.

One of his stated goals has been stopping Ukraine getting membership of the defensive alliance.

He said that the US and Nato have turned Ukraine into a “theatre of war”

Putin opened his address to the nation by discussing his view on history - and why, from his perspective, Ukraine simply isn't a state. It was an ominous start.

He is still talking - and now it is almost like the Russian leader is making a bid to run for president of Ukraine. He is talking about water prices and utilities going up, unemployment, poverty, and corruption.

His message: Is this the European civilisation they tricked you with?

Putin attacks the Ukrainian authorities

Putin has now moved on to criticising the Ukrainian authorities.

He called the events of 2014 – which saw protesters topple Ukraine’s pro-Russian president – a “coup”.

Putin says, without providing evidence, that Ukraine was being controlled from the “outside”.

Why does the West fear this move?

As Putin continues to deliver his address the nation, let's consider why Russia recognising the independence of two self-declared breakaway regions in Ukraine could be significant.

It goes beyond sanctions - which the EU has threatened to impose if Russia follows through with this.

Western powers fear such a move could be used as a pretext for Russia to invade its eastern neighbour.

That's because, since 2019, Russia has issued large numbers of passports to people living in the two regions.

Analysts say that if Donetsk and Luhansk were recognised as independent, Russia might send troops into Ukraine's east under the guise of protecting its own citizens.

Russia was robbed by Soviet Union collapse - Putin

Putin is now saying that Russia was "robbed" when the Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991.

This is something he has spoken about before - he once called the collapse of the bloc a "geopolitical catastrophe".

Lenin disadvantaged Russia - Putin

Continuing his discussion of history, Putin criticises the former communist leader Vladimir Lenin, calling him the “author and architect” of Ukraine. He says he “disadvantaged” Russia.

Last edited by NutLoose; 21st Feb 2022 at 18:36.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:35
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Remind me who invaded who? Oooh yes, that would be Putin.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:36
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Putin is ranting on how Ukraine is wanting nuclear weapons and the risk of Ukraine getting weapons of mass destruction forces Russia to act.

Also, according to Putin, Ukraines actions against the crimeans were supported by foreign intelligence services.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:40
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According to Putin, Kiev is trying to create blitzkrieg in Donbass and he has decided to recognize LPR and DPR immediately and sign the decrees.

Thats it, he really did it. This is going to be bad.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:40
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More……… responses to Putin.

Germany's Chancellor Olaf Scholz spoke to President Putin on the phone this afternoon.

The conversation focused on the situation in and around Ukraine and on the Russian troops along the Russia-Ukraine and Belarus-Ukraine border.

Putin informed Scholz about the meeting of the Russian security council earlier today and Scholz condemned Russian plans to recognise the so-called people’s republics of Luhansk and Donetsk as independent states.

Such a step would be in stark contradiction to the Minsk Agreements and would represent a unilateral violation of this treaty by Russia.

The chancellor called on the Russian president to de-escalate the situation and pull back forces from the border with Ukraine. He stressed Russia’s special responsibility to maintain the truce in Ukraine’s east and send signals of de-escalation.

At the moment the chancellor is in discussion with his closest partners, among them the French President Macron and Ukrainian President Zelensky.

Russia's move would be flagrant breach of international law - UK PM

UK PM Boris Johnson has just been asked about Vladimir Putin's move at a Covid news conference.

He says that recognising the self-declared republics in eastern Ukraine would be "plainly in breach of international law".

"It's a flagrant violation of the sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine," he says. "It is a repudiation of the Minsk process and the Minsk agreements and I think it's a very ill omen and a very dark sign."
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:43
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A bit of history from Wionews.
" The story of the Ukraine - Russia crisis does not begin in 2021, or 2014, it begins in the 9th Century. "
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:46
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Putin has formally recognised the independence of the two Ukrainian republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

If that includes their full territory it extends deep into Ukraine including the port city of Mariupol.

This breeches the Minsk agreement and, according the previous statements of the Ukranaian government, constitutes a declaration of war.

Expect the tanks to already be rolling to “defend“ the republics.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:48
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Reminds me of Pearl Harbour, diplomats still talking as the Japanese fleet was on the way
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 18:52
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Now this is a blast from the past: these agreements are the exact wordings of the agreement between the USSR and Finland during the cold war. This in essence means that either party may propose mutual military exercises and request for military assistance. In all the honesty I thought I'd never see this again. Now all it takes is LPR and/orDPR ask for brotherly help and the Soviet Russian forces will be there, on Ukrainian soil. If Ukrainians try to protect their sovereignty, all hell breaks loose.

TASS: Putin signed decrees recognizing the LPR and the DPR.

Putin and Pushilin signed an agreement on friendship, cooperation and assistance between the Russian Federation and the DPR.

Putin and Pasechnik signed an agreement on friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance between the Russian Federation and the LPR in the Kremlin.

Putin congratulated the heads of the DPR and LPR on the signing of friendship treaties with Russia.

https://tass.ru/politika/13792297
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 19:27
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If ever there was a time to hack the Russian TV system it was tonight, the thought of Putin being replaced by a spitting image puppet telling the locals the truth would have been priceless.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 19:55
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 20:29
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
More……… responses to Putin.

Russia's move would be flagrant breach of international law - UK PM

UK PM Boris Johnson has just been asked about Vladimir Putin's move at a Covid news conference.

He says that recognising the self-declared republics in eastern Ukraine would be "plainly in breach of international law".

"It's a flagrant violation of the sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine," he says. "It is a repudiation of the Minsk process and the Minsk agreements and I think it's a very ill omen and a very dark sign."
He is more than welcome to pull back UK's recognition of Kosovo.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 20:47
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 20:52
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 21:05
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Czechoslovakia, 1938. Putin now in Hitler’s shoes…
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 21:16
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 21:18
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Evacuation in progress?

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Old 21st Feb 2022, 21:19
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And so it begins. I wonder if future generations (if there are any...) will look through textbooks and see this as the way that WWIII started?

I despair at the repisals of the West to Putins announcement today...sanctions. Really?

This is precisely why I voted for Brexit - the EU is a quagmire of beaurocrats and paper pushers. They actually believe a nation like Russia can be cowered with paper threats and denial of access to markets. They are so pathetically naiive in their views that I really do not even know where to start. Nobody else cares about their stupid laws and quotas - why should Putin care about threats from nations that he may well believe will not even exist in the near future? The World Order was forged, and history is written by, the winners. The geographic map was formed by wars and victory, not by feeble threats of 'sanctions'. Europe has become weak beyond belief and the New World Order will hand them their asses on a plate I regret to say. Russia and China understand true strength - Europe understands beaurocracy and vacillation. Frankly Europe is about to reap what it has sowed.

The only silver lining I can see is that in the conflagration that will shortly ensue, we have Boris Johnson as the PM, to lead us through. It is well known that Russia still possesses some of the world's foremost spying and hacking capabilities, and it is extremely likely in my view that his plans and secret meetings will be known to them. Fortunately for us, the man is physically incapable of telling the truth and has no moral compass whatsoever. I almost pity the poor Russian analyst who has to decipher his intentions from intercepted messages and report to his superior...' he could be lying, or he could be bluffing...all we know for sure is that he is not telling the truth...but basically we have no idea what he will do comrade...he is Boris. I cannot believe that the man to beat Russian intelligence is called Boris...'. They cannot even apply the principle of 'what would a person of character and moral standing do?', because he is neither.

I never thought that the lying, contemptuous and frankly abhorrent excuse for a human being that is Boris Johnson would have a purpose, but I was wrong. He may indeed be the man for the moment.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 21:26
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Well Baldeep, It's nice to see your support for the west. Which democratically elected leader are you going to pull apart next? You'd better have your exit plan in place, in case it all goes wrong. The Gulags can be chilly.
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Old 21st Feb 2022, 21:26
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There you go, comparing him to Churchill in so many respects it’s uncanny….
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