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-   -   Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged) (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged.html)

Tritzo 27th Nov 2012 15:01

the thing is, qatar is cofunded by the government. basically, they can afford it to invite people for assessments and not hiring them although they passed.

youre right, it doesnt make sense sometimes, but thats how it goes. i think the better argument over money would rather be the assessment induced blocked training capacities.
blocked sim slots for all the screenings and binding of manpower (selection captains), who could also be used as type rating instructor or supervision pilot instead. (to clear the backlog)
despise of all that, qatar still interviewed a lot of people this year. and still is.

why? i dont know. not all the things have to be logical (for our sense) in the middle east.

if they want to do something - they will do it.


@RK303
you understand me wrong maybe. i will not pay to fly. i will not sell my soul.
still, as soon as i get paid for what i like doing the most - flying - for me, any flying job is a win win situation.
and definitely better than working nothing at all.

disagreeable 27th Nov 2012 17:27


RK303 :
Come on… if your goal is to be a jet airline pilot flying in G.A won’t give you a damn thing. Even with 5000h of piston, your value is zero for the “jet world”. Go for it only if you love G.A because high chance is you’ll be stuck in.
Only if you’re full of money to upgrade yourself during this time may help you or you know a key person of the “jet world” close to you or you’re a national of a country with lack of suitable locals or you manage to enter a ab-initio programme. Otherwise you’re loosing your time I’m afraid.
Not true at all RK303. My question is would you trust a person with 300hrs total time in a jet with your family? or would you trust a person with 5000hrs in G.A that dealt with bad weather, passengers, other possible emergencies/problems...... I know who I would choose.
What your advocating is for the smallest of percentage of people out there; know sombody or pay to get a jet rating!!! :ugh: Neither of which has any advantage to the person other than to drain their wallet and sell them dreams.
They dont have time on type and therefore very uncompetative for most 'Jet' jobs. Thats why they need to work G.A.... that is:
single engine --> twin engine piston --> twin engine turbine(RPT)--> jet job)

Work in G.A if you get a shot. its the only way until you get the miracle golden goose egg called a 'jet job'..... and thats when you realise your either lucky to get a jet job in a good company that respects you , or one that makes you tear your hair out with frustration (QR).

Dont buy into the hype about Jet this and Jets that.... is all B.S.
The secret in aviation that nobody tells you is that you have to set a limit on your chasing the carrot.
There is always something bigger, faster, sleeker, seats more pax.... but you have to draw that line somewhere;

and thats where G.A comes into it.... unless you have experienced many different things in G.A then you will never have anything to compare it too when you obtain that "jet job".
Its not the be all and end all at all; I know countless people that denied going into heavies and other jet jobs because they realised that fact underlined above. Many are staying in their turboprop jobs (Q400's, twin otters etc) because they love the flying they do, the lifestyle is great for them and they dont need to be the "jet" guy at the cocktail party.

I am not saying dont do jets, I am saying two things;
Get experience where you can, regardless of what it is, and move up in a/c as your experience grows....
Secondly, you dont need to buy a jet rating straight out of school or even if you have 1000hrs.... it is useless unless you either have a job at the end of it or > 500Hrs on it.

personally, i would not advocate buying ratings at all for jets. thats something the employer should provide and they aint gonna give it to a 200hr pilot generrally.

Save your money guys
peace out and dont knockback any opportunity if it comes before QR....

good luck.

RK303 27th Nov 2012 18:17

Chrislikesblue, I do understand 100% why someone declined a job because of all of this. Of course.QR has his responsability you’re right.

BUT, the problem is that YOU made the choice at the end. Someone sent you a generic e-mail saying “congrats and wait” while another one called you to come to work right away. Many guys came here to ask some advices before then made the choice...

Sad situation yeah, but how to blame now when you never signed any contract while refusing a job offer?

@ disagreeable


single engine --> twin engine piston --> twin engine turbine(RPT)--> jet job)
With no additional investment for 90% of the people? really? Well... Ok

geronimoapache 27th Nov 2012 20:18


Someone sent you a generic e-mail saying “congrats and wait"
RK303, unfortunately, we are not talking just about some generic messages, but about actual Offers of employement, with all the specifics, signed, sent back and accepted by QR. You have to agree with me that it is a very different thing. There is no way one can find an excuse for that. :=

I dont believe that anybody can seriously suggest, yeah, accept/sign a couple of offers and then just show up for whoever calls first with a DoJ... If I would look away from the ethical aspect of such a behaviour, from the practical perspective, it would not be a very wise move to bar in such a way potential employers in the future neither, would it...

But the root of the problem, in my opinion, does not lie in the fact that we still dont know the actual DoJ. I am aware that we work in an industry where things change fast with a lot of uncertainties, there are furloughs, layoffs, bankrupties, and so on, thats part of the game. The problem lies in the lack of information, it is that simple.

How different would it be for everyone to receive a mail saying: Gentleman, we aologise for the delay. We want you at our company, there is a position waiting for you, but due to late deliveries, pls give us a few more months. The situation is such and such. There is some 400 pilots selected, the time frame can span from this to this date, but you will be working by next summer at the latest if you can wait that long. We will do our best to accomodate your needs should you find a temporary job to span this period, because we understand that you have to feed the family.

And then a short mail every month, saying, yes, we are still here, and we still want you...
Am I pushing it?:ugh: Maybe, but it would be polite...

Tritzo 27th Nov 2012 21:35

Maybe that is supposed to be the purpose of all the 3-4 monthly updates. (for me: February, May, August, now soon hopefully something positive in November)

Getting an update at all, and also positive answers that everything with the application seems okay when calling or emailing the recruitment department, I guess those "regular" updates should be enough.

The thing is, personally I would feel much better on a monthly update, because you dont really know whats going on. They seem to have a big pool, but instead of decreasing it, they still do new interviews.

Also, I guess if you push the calling and emailing part too much, they will not consider you anymore, as it gets annoying to get calls from 300-500 people every other day (which is kinda true. even if its only 10% of those people). For me, also the reason why I stopped to call/email after the August update.

I will just have to trust them that they will call me sooner or later.

speedhold 28th Nov 2012 00:36

tritzo

at least you got a update i have not any since the talent pool email in july 2012.
im starting to wonder if they will ever call me .
are you as a direct entry f/o ?
applied direct f/o assigned a320 signed and returned contract in May 2012 still waiting ....

disagreeable 28th Nov 2012 02:04


Quote:
single engine --> twin engine piston --> twin engine turbine(RPT)--> jet job)
RK303:
With no additional investment for 90% of the people? really? Well... Ok
Yeah really,
and definately not as much as paying for a jet type rating with NO realistic chance of getting a job from it.
Dont know where you came from, but thats how most of aviation did it prior to the "X generation" who believe that everything is owed to them because they have a rating.

------
Guys, QR is very disorganised and have a terrible track record of it. So dont hold your breath, it just goes to show you how they will treat you!!! open your eyes.

sqn012 28th Nov 2012 06:42

disagreeable,


I think we have understood your comments on how QR is bad for us, thank you.

The current market is really shitty, and QR, like many other eastern airlines, take advantage of this situation. That's how business is.

Let me present you my point of view for somebody who has no valid type rating (like a vast majority of the swimmers now) :

- finding a job in an airline is almost impossible. No airline are hiring untype rated guys at the moment (except QR...)

- finding a GA job is a bit the same with no type rating. I have found many offers, always for type rated guys (Hawker 800-900, Falcon 2000, Citation Excel, GV, ...etc). None of the offers I read look for untype rated guys.
And if you luckily find a GA job, it would certainly be for a shitty roster, or/and a shitty salary.

- Finding a non-aviation job ? It depends on what you are able to accept. I mean if you are 28, single, easy to find at 1000-2000 a month in order to "survive". But if you have a family (3 kids), do you really think it is that easy to get a decent job at 3000-4000 without any experience ? not really.


The current situation is really bad for pilots. In other jobs, you can generally find something if you relocate somwhere in Europe. But in aviation, the network is worldwide and inter-connected.


Aviation has always been versatile. 1991 (GW1), 2001 (9-11), and 2008.
I remember in 1991+, guys were sitting on their back waiting for a DOJ as well for years in France. They finally got called (1995-1996).


But today, I'm not sure if the economy will ever recover in the near future. It is a deep and structural crisis which reflects how extreme capitalism can damage the world.

Many reasons for that. middle eastern countries and far eastern become the leaders. Western countries start to decline. Makes sense. In those countries, social benefits are close to 0, taxes are very low and there is a huge reservoir of cheap manpower in the world.

For western countries, there is undoubtedly a pauperization of the human conditions. The future is not shinny.


So what ?

With what I said above, QR is the best (the less bad) option. And I eager to move to Doha and WORK !!!

Disagreeable, I guess you fly for QR, otherwise you won't tell so many critics about QR. Now imagine if you had no job, no salary, no money in the back and no type rating + a family. What would you do ? still criticizing ? for sure not.

There are 2 types of guys :

- those with type rating and experience
- those without type rating

The 1st group can find easily a job anywhere in the eastern direction, and the second is struggling to get something. That's how the current situation is.


Thank for being more objective.

disagreeable 28th Nov 2012 07:35

Once again, I think your missing the point.

I never said dont come, I said dont come if you have other options; I also stated its a mess here and you will put up with ALOT of crap if you come as a NTR FTSO/SO if you choose to come, especially under the new contract then you may be a little more aware of the treatment.

If they offer you a solid DOJ then take it if you are informed and have nothing else on offer!

I also said training is extremely slow for FTSO/SO's and your "poor" no money thing will be basically the same while you waste lots of time for QR to train you, if they ever do.

Also, I am telling you like it is. If you dont like it then frankly i dont care. Your rose coloured glasses will see what they want to see.

But for those with an open enough mind, they will read what I say and accept that they will come here and experience much frustration and delays, no communication, rules that change and you dont get told about them and many other issues that you, in your situations dont want to believe will effect you.

Now, you can just keep posting stupid theories about how they select people from hold pools etc or you can listen tou a few here that clearly are passing on knowledge from the inside.

Keep looking for other jobs, keep applying for other jobs, keep physically turning up to G.A/RPT operators and talking with them and asking if you can start at the bottom and work your way up.

It seems to me that its all the cry here is that NTR/low time pilots or both, cant get that Hawker jet job! LOL .... try getting a piston/ turboprop job first .... anything... it does not have to be on a jet! :ugh:

You say you want to work hard for QR, well prove it by working hard for another company and doing the "G.A has a shitty roster" thing (as Sqn012 said).
You think the roster at QR is cherry pie? Geez man, come on.

If you have not put the effort in like thousands of pilots before you in a "tough" era/economy then dont tell me I have the problem.

If you knock back other employment while you wait for QR, then its YOUR choice. You have been warned they dont communicate and they dont give a :mad: about you; proof being they just let you sit around and waste your life.
If you choose that option of waiting then dont tell me again that I have the problem.

Yes economy is bad, but if you dont try then thats your issue not mine.
I succeeded, like many others, doing it the same way I am telling you too so it can be done; And yes I did it all through the "bad economic crashes" as well.

Just dont cruicify me for giving you the truth. I dont lie to you and I hopefully would like to think I actually help some of you by opening your eyes and giving you a shake.

Re-read my posts, yes some of them are negative as I am still a human and still fallible to emotion, but you will find they hold true.

Dont mean to be harsh so take it with kindness :ok:

sqn012 28th Nov 2012 08:26

ok disagreeable, I catch what you say.

Thanks anyway for your inputs. Always appreciated.

Narrow Runway 28th Nov 2012 08:29

Not quite true
 
"- finding a GA job is a bit the same with no type rating. I have found many offers, always for type rated guys (Hawker 800-900, Falcon 2000, Citation Excel, GV, ...etc). None of the offers I read look for untype rated guys.
And if you luckily find a GA job, it would certainly be for a shitty roster, or/and a shitty salary."

Not quite true. I am in GA/Private Ops.

I was an FO on B757, then A320, then A330 and finally A340 before I gained Command on A320.

I responded to an advert on FlightGlobal for a Global Express Captain and got hired.

I didn't even know the first thing about a Global Express.

Crappy roster? No. 2 weeks on/off.

Crappy pay? No. Basic could be a little higher, but generous guaranteed number of per diems per month and every weekend at home, plus annual bonus, amazing company pension and company credit card make up for any gripes about basic salary.

Could I go back to airlines? Not unless I had to, but I could if I wish.

Could I get a job in GA from the airlines without the rating! Well, I already proved I have.

Don't generalise to much, and don't damn everyone and everything just for the hell of it.

RK303 28th Nov 2012 10:21

@Disagreeable


Yeah really,
and definately not as much as paying for a jet type rating with NO realistic chance of getting a job from it.
Dont know where you came from, but thats how most of aviation did it prior to the "X generation" who believe that everything is owed to them because they have a rating.
I wish it work like that FOR EVERYONE in the world…but yeah maybe the “X generation” has change the rules.

Maybe I’m wrong but you sounds a north American? Only for Canada or maybe Usa, I do agree on

single engine --> twin engine piston --> twin engine turbine(RPT)--> jet job)
(Of course we have to say that IF you’re not a Canadian or American citizen, I believe that it doesn’t really apply to you huum??:E). In this case, I hope you’re not 28 years old with 3 kids!!! And you’ll need to allocate 10 to 20 years of your life to land a jet job if it's what you want…

Otherwise, for those outside America who finally decided to start their carreer somewhere in the world on a Cessna or something for 500$/month and no money in their pockets, remember this thread when you hit 1000/1500h and come to debate!

sqn012 28th Nov 2012 10:31

"I was an FO on B757, then A320, then A330 and finally A340 before I gained Command on A320"

This makes the big difference. If you have so many hours on airliners and on top of that some command time on 320, you got it.
I never flew any airliners. just flew 1000 hrs as FO on a small citation in civil aviation ...

yes I did something really different in the past. My case may be marginal.

Marcos Rasberge 28th Nov 2012 16:38

End of November News - Talent Pool
 
Has Anyone received any email with the "Most Wanted" - End of November News?

checkthisout 29th Nov 2012 07:09

"...does anyone received..."

"...they will came..."

Have you guys written this with a cell phone (and with/without respective autocorrection)?

These grammatical constellations don't exist in probably any romanian language.
I am not a native speaker either, but any english speaking assessment now feels devalued in case you guys passed it as well.

No offence, but I can understand why Qatar Airways had issues with "Spanglish" - speaking direct entries.

There was a big discussion on this thread like 20 (?) pages ago.

checkthisout 29th Nov 2012 07:13

I bet on 6th of December. A good day to receive good news.

geronimoapache 29th Nov 2012 08:51

Now now, be nice Checkthisout, not a good start I´d say ... not everyone is lucky enough to have english as first language and for some it is a real struggle.

The buttom line though, I believe no one received any end of november update, just as expected. I guess punctuality and credibility is not something that is valued at the HR department, unfortunately. The live in Doha must be so easygoing: you are supposed to start at eight... nae... just show up whenever you feel like it... no pressure... we can wait...no really, just take your time...

Anyway, it is time to move on. We´ve lost several months of waiting, and the next update, if it ever comes, might be to wait for the next update.:ugh: A friend of mine has begged them for some info, he had a good offer, but they just dont seem to care at all, just as few on this forum have suggested. He ended up taking the job of course.

TRIPPLE SEVEN 300ER 29th Nov 2012 10:27

Guys, unfortunately there will be no further pilot recruitment at QTR until at least the end of next June, except only for DEC Captains on the 777 fleet for January and February 2013. Apologies for causing sadness to most of you but it is better to know the facts and not wait for the unexpected.

B767PL 29th Nov 2012 14:55

So what is the skinny at the moment with QR?

A hiring freeze? Aside from people already in the hold pool, is that it for non-TR recruitment from now to the foreseeable future? Has the ship sailed? I see only a job advert for 777 DEC.

Cheers

Redline 29th Nov 2012 22:08

No more recruitment
 
Doesn't explain why my mate is being interviewed on the 24th of Dec... and he's a NTR FO...


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