How is it on BA Mixed Fleet, are you enjoying it?

[fruitbat]

I don't know where to start with this troll...

Firstly, everybody knows the salary, rosters, uniform standards before they start. If not, you should have paid more attention at the AD.

MF is not hard to sustain for management. In fact it's what BA has wanted for years, a fleet THEY can manage rather than the Union. MF work to Scheme, so they are up to 20 percent more efficient for half the pay.

With the UK unemployment rate at 25% for 18-25 year olds BA has no problems getting applications, in fact they have had to close it to deal with the back log.

And rumours of lots leaving are just that, rumours. In fact the numbers leaving are much less than than BA had planned for. Having said that, BA are reviewing the pay and rostering to try and iron out some of the initial concerns.

And Betty Girl, did you ask her if that £1100 'take home', was with or without her HOST payment? Very misleading if you don't quote the right figures. After all if you went mad buying champagne and shopping in Abercrombie every trip, you could have a 'take home' of zero.

[Betty girl]

Fruitbat,

Yes that was her take home after HOST and NO I did not ask her what kind of withdrawals she made on her HOST card but I am sure it would be similar to most crew, enough to allow her to have some food and a few drinks and I very much doubt that she was spending it on champagne!!.

I think it is you, that is the troll and I find it very strange that you are so fast to defend the salary level on Mixed Fleet. I speak to flight crew daily on the airbus, that fly with Mixed Fleet crew, and 777 pilots commuting and I haven't met one yet that feels these crew are being paid enough. I think you will find that it is actually, you, that is in the minority with your views.

Unlike you, I actually know crew that are working on Mixed Fleet and I know that they are ALL very unhappy with the pay, some CSMs may be happy but those that were Worldwide crew before being CSMs are not so happy. Many crew have come from other airlines and are very aware that they are earning less than they were in their previous airline. This is fact Fruitbat and the market rate plus 10% is not what they have been receiving and many feel very let down.

The area surrounding LHR is the most expensive area in the whole of the UK to live in, and many are really struggling. Those that live further away, in less expensive areas of the UK, are struggling with the commute and the cost of travelling back and forth.

I am not going to apologise for highlighting this, as I and many other crew, both Mixed Fleeters; and crew from WW and E/F, want to see this situation improved.

The girl that I spoke to was a very keen Future Talent crew member and was very keen on Mixed Fleet working, and I was very surprised that she told me she was very unhappy with the salary and the rostering. She said, she also was very tired!

There are some, that want to see it fail, and they are actually, more than happy with these pay levels but I am a realist and realise that Mixed Fleet is here to stay, and as such, I want these people to be paid a living wage! You yourself, an out and out fan of what is happening to our airline, should realise that it will only work if the sallary attracts the best crew, not just thoes that are still living at home with their parents.

As for you saying that you feel 747girl is a troll; I think that is very unfair. If you look at her previous posts, you can clearly see that she has worked for other airlines, and has wanted to work for BA for quite some time. Many people are turning down the job due to the pay levels and I don't think it is fair to dismiss how she feels, as her just being a troll. Believe it or not but most Mixed Fleet crew are hoping that we all get merged together, for various reasons; but I like you don't believe this will happen, never the less many of them are hoping for it!!

[fruitbat]

You misunderstand, I'm not defending the salary. I'm just saying from BA's point of view they have what they've wanted for a long time, a young, motivated fleet with a very efficient rostering.

The total pot of money that BA spends on CC is never going to increase. All that could be done is the make that 'pot' distributed more fairly. So BG if you like, everyone on the old contract could give up 20 percent of their pay to increase the pay of MF.

Pilots have changed the way our income is distributed in the past, before 2002 SFO's on longhaul could earn much more than shorthaul Captains. We decided that wasn't fair so we changed it. There were some winners and some losers.

Unfortunately you want to keep your income the same, whilst lamenting at the fate of MF. MF is on such a low salary purely because you are still on a high salary. If you were willing to give up some, they could have more. But I don't think you're going to do that....

[nick14]

My wife has been MF since January.

Yes the pay is not brilliant but you are forgetting that the staff travel is worth its weight in gold! If you want to earn from 1500-2000 a month by all means go work for other airlines on seasonal contracts with little opportunities for advancement and poor rosters. I have seen the effect it has on a human changing from earlies, lates and nights. Yes we were better off.

The training is first class with a great emphasis on customer service and safety. There is a great mentality and feeling of community between the crew.

All I can say is get in, stick with it and the rewards will come!!

[Betty girl]

nick,
Very glad your wife is enjoying working for BA.

I have always loved working for BA and I agree there are loads of very good things about BA and working on Mixed Fleet.

I am by no means trying to put people off from working on Mixed Fleet and I have actually encouraged people to join.
I was just upset that so many have felt let down by the pay level and the promise of market rate plus 10%.

Hope she continues to enjoy the job as I always have.

[TightSlot]

I'll repeat the previous post...

The title of this thread indicates that it is directed at those actually flying as Cabin Crew on Mixed Fleet. If you do not fit into this category, please consider whether this is the most appropriate place for you to be posting.

In short - General discussions on BA IR issues are for the other thread, and will be (and have been) deleted from here.

[Young Paul]

Nick14: Again this is based on the experience of a friend who has told me a lot about how it is on BA MF.

With regard to other airlines, there aren't many who roster seven successive days, or (thinking of roster quality) shorthaul duties the day after an overnight longhaul trip with no proper crew rest area, or who roster you for blocks and blocks of standby when you need to work to earn enough money to live on. Staff travel is great, if you have enough money to live on and a bit more - perhaps if you are married to someone earning more than you, that works out better. Not everyone is in that situation. Training is good - but we all know that this doesn't determine what goes on on line, and some days are better than others.

With regard to youth unemployment, this is irrelevant - crew recruited for MF were currently employed as crew elsewhere. (This cartoon has a little relevance, perhaps ...Dilbert comic strip for 05/22/1995 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.) BA took on some of the most competent, motivated and enthusiastic crew in the UK, and these guys want it to work, the training really encourages them to believe in BA. The sense I get is that as they can bid for what they want, most issues will be put up with. But if the crew can't afford to live (which will be the case if the short term impact of low money during training becomes long term, due to insufficient work), then they will end up leaving.

[I.A.T.U. Butler]

Full time BA legacy longhaul crew taking all of their leave, find themselves up against the 900 hour cap and get extra 24 hr av's rostered.

If MF crew are being rostered 140 hours plus a month, they will hit the 900 hour cap in seven months. Then what? The contract says ground duties.

[Yellow Pen]

Nobody's being rostered 140 hours per month. It isn't legal. A read of your JPMs would tell you that.

[I.A.T.U. Butler]

This was posted earlier in the thread. Looks like more than 100 hours to me


TU 11 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
WE 12 JAN LHR-LAS
FR 14 JAN LAS-LHR
SA 15 JAN OFF DUTY
SU 16 JAN OFF DUTY
MO 17 JAN LHR-BUD-LHR
TU 18 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
WE 19 JAN LHR-NBO
TH 20 JAN NBO-LHR
SA 22 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
SU 23 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
MO 24 JAN OFF DUTY
TU 25 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
WE 26 JAN STANDBY AT HOME
TH 27 JAN STANDBY AT HOME
FR 28 JAN OFF DUTY
SA 29 JAN OFF DUTY
SU 30 JAN LHR-NBO
MO 31 JAN NBO-LHR

OK let me try again: if after 9 months you reach 900 hours on a MF contract, what sort of Ground Duties will you do as per your contract?

[Hotel Mode]

Looks like more than 100 hours to me

Its actually just over 81hrs.

[finding_nema]

OK let me try again: if after 9 months you reach 900 hours on a MF contract, what sort of Ground Duties will you do as per your contract?

Although some people continue to claim it's because of something much more sinister, I still see the ground working clause as a standard industry practice, which is currently in my own contract anyway at my current airline. Certainly it makes sense when there is bad weather, ATC problems, industrial action etc. to have cabin crew on airport standby who would otherwise be in a crew room with no flights departing, out talking to customers, even if it's just chatting in the queue whilst the ground staff themselves are sat physically on the desks rebooking people. I have no idea what happened at BA or the mentality of existing crews, but certainly at my airline during the volcanic ash incident this year, Crewing had to issue an email to all crew saying not to phone in, because that many people wanted to get involved to help our customers or work outside our published roster. Surely this is exactly the kind of corporate culture BA want on their new fleet. The roster you posted, in terms of actual flying duty hours, looks a lot closer to 81 hours, which if you times that by 11 still only adds up to a total of 891 hours, if they were rostered like that every month over 11 months. It's worth considering this was when MF first started more or less, so crew were being worked a lot harder as there were fewer of them. So even if you were that busy, and that's not including standbys, more than single days off, high hours flights where you only operate in one direction, at best, with that rostering, you're going to hit 900 hours in 11 months, and you have 30 days leave, plus an annual recurrent course to attend.

[WeLieInTheShadows]

As a BA LGW crewmember I certainly would like to hear more about what mixed fleet is like. We are under no illusions down here that it's coming to us in some way, shape, or form.

We've also lost at least 3 good crew to mixed fleet as CSMs. As that is a pretty big pay rise, I'd say good luck to them and wish them every success.

There certainly is a lot of urban rumours that I think currrent and potential BA crew would like straightened out. Other certain forums and those who "know friends of friends on the fleet" just don't cut it for me to form an opinion either way.

So mixed fleeters, make yourselves heard. Trust me everyone is REALLY interested, as it's almost fear of the unknown I feel for some now.

You may also poach some more great crew from us at LGW as a result :-(

[rowone]

mf

hi all,
as a csm on mixed fleet and totally new to BA ,i would like to reaffirm some of the more positve posts.MF is very exciting from a management point of view,the flying is also exciting,but can be challenging at times,as with all cabin crew roles.The majority of crew i fly with are very happy,competent people.Many have come from better paid employment with other airlines and nearly all have a belief that the pay and conditions will improve as the fleet progresses.The ex-temps on the whole are brilliant and very welcome for their wealth of BA experience.There is however, some stirrings of unrest over pay , in particular.I personally would like to see that addressed,because the last thing a new fleet needs , again in my opinion, is a constant flow of leavers/new enterents.As a csm,I feel the job has many challenges ahead,which is the main reason for my joining...to help guide a new fleet to a successful future within a great company.I would like to say to the other fleet's members..youre welcome to interact with us , we welcome your experience,as crew as well as people.Apologies for waffleing...

[prism]

rowone we do try to engage with you but the whole lay out of CRC is not condusive and MF huddle around one desk next to the Ops desks. With all the other fleets you will see the CSDs sat at CTM desks working alongside and at other empty computer positions in other areas. MF needs to spread it's wings. I know of only 1 CSM who preps in the CSD area and there must be about 70 CSMs by now if not more. As CSM's you could learn alot from prepping at the CSD desks as dont forget many CSD's are trainers, selectors ex fleet managers, ex duty managers etc etc from lots of different experiances within BA and International competitors.

I don't think we should be leading our crew on MF to expect changes in pay as the pay structure on MF is the new BA pay scale. We last changed the scales in 1997 and those are now only valid for existing crew.All new entrants to BA cabin crew will be to these new simpler scales. A working agreement could be established to enure greater protections / benefits eg If I were a CSM I would be encouraging for an amendment to ensure all long haul flights trigger 1 day off as this would help with rest and Duty of Care. There are many of us out here who like yourself joined a new fleet to help foster a new era . 2000 of us were the original Midfleet but for reasons ln the past were disbanded after 5 years so have experiances many of the challenges you are.

People joining BA must read their contract before signing them as each persons situation is different.

I hope you will encourage your teams and fellow CSMs to start moving into the senior crew areas in CRC and then we may be able to break down some of the barriers that may or may not be there and learn from each other for the benefit of everyone.

[Betty girl]

Welcome to BA, rowone.

I hope it will improve for you all too, especially the main crew.

I personally see us all as one team and I know that many WW and E/F crew feel as I do, that it is not your fault as crew, that Mixed Fleet has been started but that it is a shame that your terms and conditions have been set so low. Had it been just a little bit better many more current crew would have probably wanted to join and this 'them and us' situation may then have not arisen to the extent it has.

Anyway, I truly hope things will improve for you all because it is clear to see that many of you are really keen. One of the sad things for me, is that on my fleet, I will never again see any new entrants and that is sad because their enthusiasm is always good to see, and always reminds me what a great job we all have.

Take care and good luck in your new job.

[Betty girl]

I also agree to some extent, with what prism has said.

I personally feel that the area that the Mixed Fleet desks are, is not a good place. It is right where no one can help but stare at, as they pass by. In fact it could not have been placed in a more prominant place.

The area is too small and it looks silly when so many of you try and sit at one relatively small desk area.

Why don't you ask for it to be relocated down by the WW crew manager desks.
There are loads of unused desks down there and you would also be next to the SCCM prep area.

Just an idea and I really don't care either way, just think it might be more spacious for you all.

[Smell the Coffee]

We lie in the shadows, you asked for an opinion from someone on Mixed Fleet...here is a very brief summary;

Crew - vast majority are a pleasure to fly with, and you will almost always have company downroute

Routes - Personal, but interesting mixture with 747 coming in June (god I missed that plane)

CSMs - mostly good fun and competent

Opportunities - good opportunities to move into other areas of BA once you're CSM

Pay - shocking; consider yourself lucky if you take home over £1100

Rostering - shocking, many people unhappy with bidding system

That pretty much sums it up at the moment.

[Betty girl]

Well Butler, you will end up being banned from this thread if you post off subject.

Maudie,
I am so sorry for you, sometimes on E/F our bids go a bit wrong. It does take a while to get used to it and then, even then, you can put in an identical bid to the month before, and end up with a totally different roster.

The system on E/F and M/F is supposed to be working to give everyone at least 60 % of what they want. (it's different at LGW, as they have some seniority taken into account). Many E/F crew who get bad rosters talk to Scheduling as one of them is expert at understanding the bid; and if you book an appointment with her, she goes through it with you and explains where you may be going wrong. Sorry but I have forgotten her name but give them a ring and ask for help. Occasionally, if they can see that you got nothing you bid for, they sometimes can amend your roster if trips exist in the system.

I did think it was strange that they gave M/F so many short flights all at once, they are all so short, even E/F crew, who are used to short flights struggle to get the drinks done sometimes. Good luck and I hope you get your roster amended. I actually love those little sectors and if you have some night-stops in among them Manchester and Amsterdam were very popular on E/F for going out in.

If you didn't want to contact scheduling, I'd be happy to give you some tips on bidding if you wanted. PM me and next time we are in the CRC together, I'd be happy to explain it to you as I think the principle of the bid is the same for M/F and E/F.



Good luck.

[tomkins]

Thats the problem with the New Fleet.......to have any kind of decent salary at the end of the month you have to accumulate an enormous amount of flying/downroute hours @ £2.40......unfortunatley the routes and lengths of trips don't lend to doing many paid hours so until NF gets some decent lengthy trips people are always going to be unhappy because living on less than £1100 per month is a joke.
Betty girl,even with good bidding its gonna be hard ,there just isnt enough potential to earn money.