How is it on BA Mixed Fleet, are you enjoying it?
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Smell the coffee,
I notice that you used to be crew on E/F and guess that you moved to M/F as it will now be the only way to get promotion.
I also guess you are on the Future Talent scheme.
Are you overall pleased with your move or have you some regrets?
Is it hard being F/T crew or are you enjoying it?
I notice that you used to be crew on E/F and guess that you moved to M/F as it will now be the only way to get promotion.
I also guess you are on the Future Talent scheme.
Are you overall pleased with your move or have you some regrets?
Is it hard being F/T crew or are you enjoying it?
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Betty Girl,
I've been on both LHR fleets, left flying then came back onto MF ... I love coming to work, I love interacting with pax and I enjoy working with our crew, as well as meeting my friends on other fleets from time to time.
I personally don't enjoy working in the office day in, day out and have always loved flying - therefore I see no reason to come here for a few years then leave to get a "proper job" whatever that may be.
Despite what some people may say, I think Cabin Crew have every right to demand a fair wage and to make a career out of their chosen job.
I don't think any of us at MF are demanding anything extravagant, just enough to live on - that means having a reasonable amount left after bills to put towards savings, or god forbid, to enjoy life a bit. I don't think that's unreasonable. All I'm saying is that £1,000 (in fact, I earned under that for November) is not really enough, and doesn't appear to be at the level BA had suggested in the past to us.
At the end of the day, money isn't everything but I don't think that paying your staff a pittance with the aim of pushing them out of flying within a certain time frame is the way forward. I think that's regressive thinking in some ways.
I've been on both LHR fleets, left flying then came back onto MF ... I love coming to work, I love interacting with pax and I enjoy working with our crew, as well as meeting my friends on other fleets from time to time.
I personally don't enjoy working in the office day in, day out and have always loved flying - therefore I see no reason to come here for a few years then leave to get a "proper job" whatever that may be.
Despite what some people may say, I think Cabin Crew have every right to demand a fair wage and to make a career out of their chosen job.
I don't think any of us at MF are demanding anything extravagant, just enough to live on - that means having a reasonable amount left after bills to put towards savings, or god forbid, to enjoy life a bit. I don't think that's unreasonable. All I'm saying is that £1,000 (in fact, I earned under that for November) is not really enough, and doesn't appear to be at the level BA had suggested in the past to us.
At the end of the day, money isn't everything but I don't think that paying your staff a pittance with the aim of pushing them out of flying within a certain time frame is the way forward. I think that's regressive thinking in some ways.
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Thanks for that Smell the coffee,
Really hope you get promoted quickly or the salary improves.
Glad that so far you are enjoying it despite the low wage.
Just out of interest BA have spoken about bonuses on M/F in the past. Have they told you what these will be and what do you have to do to trigger one?
Really hope you get promoted quickly or the salary improves.
Glad that so far you are enjoying it despite the low wage.
Just out of interest BA have spoken about bonuses on M/F in the past. Have they told you what these will be and what do you have to do to trigger one?
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Student in debt
I remember very clearly that nf was promoted as market rate plus 10% that is why I started a thread "market rate" on this forum,to find out what market rate might be.I was interested in a move over to nf for new challenges and new routes (from lgw).£1100 is an insult as this is by no way anywhere near market rate plus 10%.The terms and conditions with this new contract are unbelievable,the potential to earn a decent wage in comparison to that which is demanded of you is mindblowing.Good luck to all who try,but I fear manny shattered dreams.
I remember very clearly that nf was promoted as market rate plus 10% that is why I started a thread "market rate" on this forum,to find out what market rate might be.I was interested in a move over to nf for new challenges and new routes (from lgw).£1100 is an insult as this is by no way anywhere near market rate plus 10%.The terms and conditions with this new contract are unbelievable,the potential to earn a decent wage in comparison to that which is demanded of you is mindblowing.Good luck to all who try,but I fear manny shattered dreams.
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Studentindept,
Bill Francis himself used the words 'market rate plus 10%' quite a number of times, it was certainly nothing to do with Bassa other than they might have been quoting him.
What amazes me is that you seem to think this kind of wage is ok and that some of you living on vastly higher wages are so fast to come on here and defend this kind of pay.
The CSM wage is, I will grant you, 'market rate and probably plus 10%' but the main crew wage and the wage of those main crew on the Future Talent programme is well below market rate and especially for Heathrow, the most expensive area in the whole of the UK to live.
Some of them are living on the South coast, Midlands, Wales etc and driving in because they are finding it hard to find somewhere cheap enough to live. It must be costing them a fortune in petrol.
I truly feel for these people because I can see that they are keen and just want to work for BA. The basics have never been good as a new entrant for any airline and it is is always a leap of faith because until your allowances start coming through you're never quite sure if you will earn enough unless you know people. With any airline it is hard at first but this package is just beyond belief and quite frankly it is taking advantage of the aspirations of young people to work for the Flag carrier..
Bill Francis himself used the words 'market rate plus 10%' quite a number of times, it was certainly nothing to do with Bassa other than they might have been quoting him.
What amazes me is that you seem to think this kind of wage is ok and that some of you living on vastly higher wages are so fast to come on here and defend this kind of pay.
The CSM wage is, I will grant you, 'market rate and probably plus 10%' but the main crew wage and the wage of those main crew on the Future Talent programme is well below market rate and especially for Heathrow, the most expensive area in the whole of the UK to live.
Some of them are living on the South coast, Midlands, Wales etc and driving in because they are finding it hard to find somewhere cheap enough to live. It must be costing them a fortune in petrol.
I truly feel for these people because I can see that they are keen and just want to work for BA. The basics have never been good as a new entrant for any airline and it is is always a leap of faith because until your allowances start coming through you're never quite sure if you will earn enough unless you know people. With any airline it is hard at first but this package is just beyond belief and quite frankly it is taking advantage of the aspirations of young people to work for the Flag carrier..
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BG
I dont thnk that anyone is being taken advantage of here. However the fleet will need to become a bit bigger before they can use collective bargaining effectively to negotiate a more realistic package. Otherwise BA will see a huge turnover rate where the costs outweigh the advantages to an efficient highly flexible fleet.
Bill Francis himself used the words 'market rate plus 10%' quite a number of times, it was certainly nothing to do with Bassa other than they might have been quoting him.
What amazes me is that you seem to think this kind of wage is ok and that some of you living on vastly higher wages are so fast to come on here and defend this kind of pay.
Last edited by StudentInDebt; 8th Jan 2011 at 11:32. Reason: I was posting from a position of ignorance - see below
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Hi Student in debt,
This was one of the many many times that Bill used this phrase. This was from an open question and reply session Bill did back on 15th October 2009 on the BA forum via ESS but he has used it many times since. It maybe because you are NOT cabin crew and therefore privy to what he writes or says that you have been unaware of it. Never the less he HAS said it numerous times and it is clearly not what he has brought in because the rates that Mixed Fleet are working to are below even Virgin and BMI.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Oct 2009.
I have always been clear with crew that we need to be market competitive going forward.
I want to be very clear that this is not a criticism in any way of current crew or their salaries, whether at LHR or LGW. Just that if I am to recruit new crew at Heathrow, when we hopefully begin to grow again, I will need to do it at market +10% rates of pay and new terms and conditions.
As you know my current focus is on a voluntary approach to reducing crew numbers, rather than recruitment
Thanks Bill
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Bill Francis
Head of InFlight Customer Experience (IFCE)
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Hope that clarifies it for you.
P.S. All Bills blogs to cabin crew are still available for all Cabin crew to read on the cabin crew forum on the ESS system.
I may have assumed you were defending BA because you seemed to be questioning what had been said or not said by Bill. My apologies if I have misunderstood your motive for posting here.
This was one of the many many times that Bill used this phrase. This was from an open question and reply session Bill did back on 15th October 2009 on the BA forum via ESS but he has used it many times since. It maybe because you are NOT cabin crew and therefore privy to what he writes or says that you have been unaware of it. Never the less he HAS said it numerous times and it is clearly not what he has brought in because the rates that Mixed Fleet are working to are below even Virgin and BMI.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Oct 2009.
I have always been clear with crew that we need to be market competitive going forward.
I want to be very clear that this is not a criticism in any way of current crew or their salaries, whether at LHR or LGW. Just that if I am to recruit new crew at Heathrow, when we hopefully begin to grow again, I will need to do it at market +10% rates of pay and new terms and conditions.
As you know my current focus is on a voluntary approach to reducing crew numbers, rather than recruitment
Thanks Bill
__________________
Bill Francis
Head of InFlight Customer Experience (IFCE)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope that clarifies it for you.
P.S. All Bills blogs to cabin crew are still available for all Cabin crew to read on the cabin crew forum on the ESS system.
I may have assumed you were defending BA because you seemed to be questioning what had been said or not said by Bill. My apologies if I have misunderstood your motive for posting here.
Last edited by Betty girl; 8th Jan 2011 at 11:18.
Thank you Betty girl, it does indeed. I tried to remove my original comment but the delete comment function didn't work as I expected 
I've sent you a PM but rest assured that have no interest in defending BA if I think they are in the wrong
I've sent you a PM but rest assured that have no interest in defending BA if I think they are in the wrong
Last edited by StudentInDebt; 8th Jan 2011 at 11:30.
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I agree with everything Betty Girl says if I'm honest.
I can understand and accept the need for change. However BA said Market rate plus 10% was the salary on Mixed Fleet. Well I have spoken to crew who work for other airlines (or worked) including a very large airline that has orange as it's brand colour and they get paid more. I have also heard some crew from charters not accepting. Now I know there are crew on MF from some of these airlines and they may be fine, that may be just because of base or trips. I don't know but this is what I have heard.
The problem is taking home £1000 this day and age, in SE England is nowhere near acceptable! People do it, of course they do, but they struggle if they are not living at home!
The fact that does amaze me mind, is the fact that most people who seem accepting of this salary seem to be people on vastly higher pay than them. That's fine - as they are doing a job that pays those wages, but you can't just sit back and claim that if they want more they should just leave!
Anyway, to get back on topic, I am glad most of you on MF seem to be enjoying it so far. I do hope, however you are able to get collective bargaining soon so that you can fight for better wages and conditions. As LHR-LAS-LHR double with 1 day off in between seems abit much really!
Hope you all are enjoying it still! Safe flying!
I can understand and accept the need for change. However BA said Market rate plus 10% was the salary on Mixed Fleet. Well I have spoken to crew who work for other airlines (or worked) including a very large airline that has orange as it's brand colour
and they get paid more. I have also heard some crew from charters not accepting. Now I know there are crew on MF from some of these airlines and they may be fine, that may be just because of base or trips. I don't know but this is what I have heard.The problem is taking home £1000 this day and age, in SE England is nowhere near acceptable! People do it, of course they do, but they struggle if they are not living at home!
The fact that does amaze me mind, is the fact that most people who seem accepting of this salary seem to be people on vastly higher pay than them. That's fine - as they are doing a job that pays those wages, but you can't just sit back and claim that if they want more they should just leave!
Anyway, to get back on topic, I am glad most of you on MF seem to be enjoying it so far. I do hope, however you are able to get collective bargaining soon so that you can fight for better wages and conditions. As LHR-LAS-LHR double with 1 day off in between seems abit much really!
Hope you all are enjoying it still! Safe flying!
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I've considered moving to the UK and applying for MF but I have to say the only thing that turns me off MF is the pay - if youre earning under 1K per month I don't understand how you can live anywhere near London??
For me, the rostering also seems better. A PSA return equates to less than half of an average duty at my airline. We can also work up to four back of the clock duties in a row (no rest days between!), where some of those duties are 11 hours.
All in all, I enjoy working hard and earning decent money though...I don't live extravagently, but what MF offers doesn't seem right?
For me, the rostering also seems better. A PSA return equates to less than half of an average duty at my airline. We can also work up to four back of the clock duties in a row (no rest days between!), where some of those duties are 11 hours.
All in all, I enjoy working hard and earning decent money though...I don't live extravagently, but what MF offers doesn't seem right?
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Superllama, unless you apply for the role of CSM I would stay where you are.
The job is enjoyable but unless you have relatives within commuting distance that allow you to live rent-free you will find it very difficult to live on those wages around London... As i can confirm from personal experience.
The job is enjoyable but unless you have relatives within commuting distance that allow you to live rent-free you will find it very difficult to live on those wages around London... As i can confirm from personal experience.
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I have just been offered CSM with BA
What do current CSM's on M/F think of it it down there! I am hoping the role will be a lot more involved than I am currently used to!?
I've also heard that the money isn't perhaps as good as being advertised, if someone doesn't mind saying how much they are likely to take home as a Customer Service Manager that would be great!
What do current CSM's on M/F think of it it down there! I am hoping the role will be a lot more involved than I am currently used to!?
I've also heard that the money isn't perhaps as good as being advertised, if someone doesn't mind saying how much they are likely to take home as a Customer Service Manager that would be great!
Last edited by atmosphere; 13th Jan 2011 at 12:17.
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I doubt I have enough experience as CM (only 6 months) at my current airline to go for the mixed fleet CSM...do they take direct entry CSM anyway? I too would be curious as to the pay for CSM...
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superllama, we are taking in direct entry CSMs, and have been doing this from the start.
Check out the requirements on the recruitment page..
At the end of the day, if you do the math and find that £1200 or so (sometimes less, sometimes a bit more) will pay your bills, then I would say go for it - as I said, it's a fun job and promotion is a real possibility.
If you can't, then stay where you are.
Check out the requirements on the recruitment page..
At the end of the day, if you do the math and find that £1200 or so (sometimes less, sometimes a bit more) will pay your bills, then I would say go for it - as I said, it's a fun job and promotion is a real possibility.
If you can't, then stay where you are.
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So about £1200 for Main Crew
What can a CSM look to bring home flight pay inclusive!?
I am really excited about the role of CSM, It is vastly different from the current Cabin Manager role that I am currently doing. i think it is a fantastic opportunity to get involved early. I am pumped but also nervous! I do really love the airline I currently fly for, but I think the opportunity at BA is to big to walk away from
What can a CSM look to bring home flight pay inclusive!?
I am really excited about the role of CSM, It is vastly different from the current Cabin Manager role that I am currently doing. i think it is a fantastic opportunity to get involved early. I am pumped but also nervous! I do really love the airline I currently fly for, but I think the opportunity at BA is to big to walk away from
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Not sure if we have any CSM's that post on here.
They look pretty happy. The deal is a lot better than main crew. Basic £24,000 plus 2.40 ph hour paid while on duty and away on trips from report to clear.
Spoke to one the other day and she was enjoying it but said she was always very busy.
They look pretty happy. The deal is a lot better than main crew. Basic £24,000 plus 2.40 ph hour paid while on duty and away on trips from report to clear.
Spoke to one the other day and she was enjoying it but said she was always very busy.
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Reward package starting from £29,000 pa, with potential to increase annually in line with performance, includes:
Elapsed Hourly Pay
In addition to the above, you will be eligible to participate in our management bonus scheme (Performance Related Reward) of up to 20% of base salary reviewed annually
34 days annual leave
It states 29k basic. A lot of people saying 24k. I'm presuming the website is accurate?
Is anyone an authority on the subject?
Elapsed Hourly Pay
In addition to the above, you will be eligible to participate in our management bonus scheme (Performance Related Reward) of up to 20% of base salary reviewed annually
34 days annual leave
It states 29k basic. A lot of people saying 24k. I'm presuming the website is accurate?
Is anyone an authority on the subject?
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the position as CSM does sound amazing, however it states on the website you need 2 years exp. in a senior position to apply...unfortunately i only have 6 months! patience...
i guess i'll just wait for future talent to open...
i guess i'll just wait for future talent to open...