BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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There's a meeting at Bedfont (where else?) on the 12th to discuss the outcome of the talks. The Dear Leaders language seems much more conciliatory in his latest address to the masses. Perhaps he's preparing them for an outcome which they won't be satisfied with?
Here you go Betty ...... assuming the mods let it stay. It is a freely accessible link - how come you can't access it?
"..... suing British Airways for unfair dismissal. He told the tribunal that the strike-breaker YouTube messages were not posted by him but by his brother." Pull the other one! Why would J post such stuff? 
"Representing Mr Benning, Anya Palmer said that he was suffering from a debilitating bout of severe depression and was not acting in the best way during his disciplinary hearings." Because he got caught, no doubt.
"Cabin crew want nothing to do with you anymore. Enjoy your nights in your chinos, polo shirt and eating your chicken wings." Feeling a bit insecure are we then, Bryan?
British Airways striker sacked after 'he threatened to poison pilot' in YouTube rant
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 9:21 AM on 5th May 2011
A British Airways employee was sacked after he threatened to poison a strike-breaking pilot's food, an employment tribunal heard.
Bryan Benning also allegedly posted abusive messages about other BA strike-breakers on YouTube, including sinister threats saying he knew 'car and other details of scabs.'
He allegedly said that strike-breakers were hated by cabin crew, who thought pilots were just 'glorified bus drivers'.
The employment tribunal panel heard how senior BA officials traced the YouTube messages about last years's strike back to Mr Benning. They intercepted him as he was about to board a flight and later sacked him.
Father-of-two Mr Benning, who was based at Heathrow Airport's Terminal 5, is suing British Airways for unfair dismissal. He told the tribunal that the strike-breaker YouTube messages were not posted by him but by his brother.
The panel was told that Mr Benning, writing under the psuedonym 'Strike 2010', made comments aimed at strike-breaking cabin crew and staff.
Mr Benning, 43, was said to have posted the comments in response to another YouTube writer, called 'Ruthless Interloper' who was later identified as being a BA pilot.
One message is alleged to have said: 'All crew hate nigels - they are glorified bus drivers.
'Cabin crew want nothing to do with you anymore. Enjoy your nights in your chinos, polo shirt and eating your chicken wings. We have a whole number of scab's details, and car details.
'By the way, don't eat anything you are to be served on board. Bring your own food on board. We know everything, we have all your details.'
Tensions: Striking BA staff blamed chief executive Willy Walsh for many of the changes the airline has tried to force on them
Representing Mr Benning, Anya Palmer said that he was suffering from a debilitating bout of severe depression and was not acting in the best way during his disciplinary hearings.
'When someone is suffering with severe depression, they may not act in a way that would make sense to you or I,' she told the tribunal.
'He was advised by his doctor that he could not take part in the hearing and he could not answer questions over the phone. He was severely depressed, on pills and did not have a union representative.'
She also said that her client was provoked into posting messages because of what other people had said, including one blogger writing under the name 'Powerful Peanuts'.
A video, which was shown to the panel, showed Powerful Peanuts saying: 'Cabin crew you are paid £30,000 a year and all you do it open a packet of dry roasted nuts and walk up and down an aeroplane; you have no qualifications or skills.
'The women are only employed if they have a nice ass and male cabin crew members have those faces you want to punch - and I would love to - until it looks like a beef burger.
'You are glorified waiters and waitresses. The hardest part of your job is putting ice cubes into tiny glasses.'
Mr Benning, of Eastbourne, East Sussex, was said to have responded to this post by saying: 'You stupid tw*t.
'Go cut your head lice ridden hair and get a job. Do yourself favour and start wearing some deodorant.
'Like usual - a stupid fecking student who thinks he knows everything but infact knows **** all. Go die in a compost heap you piece of s***.
'Your day will come to you silly piece of s*** and who will stand up for you?
He allegedly added: 'You will die a SCAB. You will take that title to the grave. Everyday it will eat away at you. You deserve it. Oh - by the way, good riddance.'
The tribunal continues.
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 9:21 AM on 5th May 2011
A British Airways employee was sacked after he threatened to poison a strike-breaking pilot's food, an employment tribunal heard.
Bryan Benning also allegedly posted abusive messages about other BA strike-breakers on YouTube, including sinister threats saying he knew 'car and other details of scabs.'
He allegedly said that strike-breakers were hated by cabin crew, who thought pilots were just 'glorified bus drivers'.
The employment tribunal panel heard how senior BA officials traced the YouTube messages about last years's strike back to Mr Benning. They intercepted him as he was about to board a flight and later sacked him.
Father-of-two Mr Benning, who was based at Heathrow Airport's Terminal 5, is suing British Airways for unfair dismissal. He told the tribunal that the strike-breaker YouTube messages were not posted by him but by his brother.
The panel was told that Mr Benning, writing under the psuedonym 'Strike 2010', made comments aimed at strike-breaking cabin crew and staff.
Mr Benning, 43, was said to have posted the comments in response to another YouTube writer, called 'Ruthless Interloper' who was later identified as being a BA pilot.
One message is alleged to have said: 'All crew hate nigels - they are glorified bus drivers.
'Cabin crew want nothing to do with you anymore. Enjoy your nights in your chinos, polo shirt and eating your chicken wings. We have a whole number of scab's details, and car details.
'By the way, don't eat anything you are to be served on board. Bring your own food on board. We know everything, we have all your details.'
Tensions: Striking BA staff blamed chief executive Willy Walsh for many of the changes the airline has tried to force on them
Representing Mr Benning, Anya Palmer said that he was suffering from a debilitating bout of severe depression and was not acting in the best way during his disciplinary hearings.
'When someone is suffering with severe depression, they may not act in a way that would make sense to you or I,' she told the tribunal.
'He was advised by his doctor that he could not take part in the hearing and he could not answer questions over the phone. He was severely depressed, on pills and did not have a union representative.'
She also said that her client was provoked into posting messages because of what other people had said, including one blogger writing under the name 'Powerful Peanuts'.
A video, which was shown to the panel, showed Powerful Peanuts saying: 'Cabin crew you are paid £30,000 a year and all you do it open a packet of dry roasted nuts and walk up and down an aeroplane; you have no qualifications or skills.
'The women are only employed if they have a nice ass and male cabin crew members have those faces you want to punch - and I would love to - until it looks like a beef burger.
'You are glorified waiters and waitresses. The hardest part of your job is putting ice cubes into tiny glasses.'
Mr Benning, of Eastbourne, East Sussex, was said to have responded to this post by saying: 'You stupid tw*t.
'Go cut your head lice ridden hair and get a job. Do yourself favour and start wearing some deodorant.
'Like usual - a stupid fecking student who thinks he knows everything but infact knows **** all. Go die in a compost heap you piece of s***.
'Your day will come to you silly piece of s*** and who will stand up for you?
He allegedly added: 'You will die a SCAB. You will take that title to the grave. Everyday it will eat away at you. You deserve it. Oh - by the way, good riddance.'
The tribunal continues.
"Representing Mr Benning, Anya Palmer said that he was suffering from a debilitating bout of severe depression and was not acting in the best way during his disciplinary hearings." Because he got caught, no doubt.
"Cabin crew want nothing to do with you anymore. Enjoy your nights in your chinos, polo shirt and eating your chicken wings." Feeling a bit insecure are we then, Bryan?
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Thanks Mr. Bernoulli,
Yes I had read that.
I thought Yellow Pen was referring to something DH had posted on another forum that is only open to union members, and I am unable to therefore read it.
Yes I had read that.
I thought Yellow Pen was referring to something DH had posted on another forum that is only open to union members, and I am unable to therefore read it.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post, then.
More on the miscreant here, including a pic:
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: BA air steward ‘sent threats’ to pilot for breaking the strike
More on the miscreant here, including a pic:
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: BA air steward ‘sent threats’ to pilot for breaking the strike
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I feel a little bit better today, as one of our Managers has just posted on our BA cabin crew forum, that the intention is still to share our routes out fairly.
I am back to being my trusting self again!! Well I haven't got much choice really!!
But I do hope they keep their promise.
On E/F the routes are not so critical, it is just important for us to keep the same balance of night stops and there and backs and a balance between lates and earlies ect. and if we get some going and then returning too, to keep a fair share.
I do notice though that the long-haul trips so far have been transferred in an unfair way. So far a much higher proportion of the long-range trips have gone or are going to M/F. Rio, Haneda, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver and San Diego are all long range flights and it amounts to well over two thirds of M/F's long-haul work but on WW, the long-range flights amount to just a fifth, if that, of WW trips and this is removing a large number of them and making the proportion even less!. So this level needs to be sorted out really as it is unfair to WW crew and BF said it would be done in a fair way.
However I will try and keep positive and I hope for the best for all; M/F, WW and of course my lovely E/F, the best kept secret in BA!!
I am back to being my trusting self again!! Well I haven't got much choice really!!
But I do hope they keep their promise.
On E/F the routes are not so critical, it is just important for us to keep the same balance of night stops and there and backs and a balance between lates and earlies ect. and if we get some going and then returning too, to keep a fair share.
I do notice though that the long-haul trips so far have been transferred in an unfair way. So far a much higher proportion of the long-range trips have gone or are going to M/F. Rio, Haneda, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver and San Diego are all long range flights and it amounts to well over two thirds of M/F's long-haul work but on WW, the long-range flights amount to just a fifth, if that, of WW trips and this is removing a large number of them and making the proportion even less!. So this level needs to be sorted out really as it is unfair to WW crew and BF said it would be done in a fair way.
However I will try and keep positive and I hope for the best for all; M/F, WW and of course my lovely E/F, the best kept secret in BA!!
Last edited by Betty girl; 5th May 2011 at 18:23.
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Perhaps if WW crew were prepared to do the long range flights under the same arrangements as MF, they would keep them.
So SAN, GIG, PHX, all one night away and only one/two days MBT. You still want to keep them.... no I didn't think so...
You now have competition within BA, if you can't match it then you will become extinct. Same as in any form of business.
And WW keep all the money from routes they lose anyway, so why does it matter?
So SAN, GIG, PHX, all one night away and only one/two days MBT. You still want to keep them.... no I didn't think so...
You now have competition within BA, if you can't match it then you will become extinct. Same as in any form of business.
And WW keep all the money from routes they lose anyway, so why does it matter?
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I don't think I have ever read anything pleasant posted by you Fruitbat.
I'll leave it at that because there is little chance of getting into a reasoned conversation with you.
I'll leave it at that because there is little chance of getting into a reasoned conversation with you.
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fruitbat the contract that MF crew have joined is well published and people are clear what contract they are signing up for. The contract that people signed upto in years gone by was the contract on offer at that time hence why we have lots of anomalies within the pay structure eg people have certain benefits due to their British Caledonian contract, people having contracts based on their contracts as senior BA managers but redeployed to crew, Flight engineers who became cabin crew when the position ended etc etc etc. Why should we change our contracts ? BA is certainly not asking us to change our contracts and has said that MF will amount to 42% of the cabin crew community in 10 years time.
There is no competition at all. MF is the new BA cabin crew contract and is BA's way of cutting costs in the long term. It is not an attack on existing crew. The view you are supporting is the same as the one being submitted by the militant faction.
Please see the manager responsible for the routes and transfer of works comments today. She has been completly open and honest and does not support the point of view you are saying at all.
There is no competition at all. MF is the new BA cabin crew contract and is BA's way of cutting costs in the long term. It is not an attack on existing crew. The view you are supporting is the same as the one being submitted by the militant faction.
Please see the manager responsible for the routes and transfer of works comments today. She has been completly open and honest and does not support the point of view you are saying at all.
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It is a competition, for routes. Otherwise why would you be so worried about losing long range if your earnings are guaranteed? It's BA's business, they should be able to run it as they see fit.
For example, you are building an extension at home. The builders you have used before give you a quote for £20,000 and it will take 10 weeks. A new outfit comes along and says it will build the same extension, at the same quality, for £10,000 and in 6 weeks.
Would you go with the builders you know if the extension was going to be the same, and worse still, would you like it if someone insisted you use them, despite the extra cost to you?
For example, you are building an extension at home. The builders you have used before give you a quote for £20,000 and it will take 10 weeks. A new outfit comes along and says it will build the same extension, at the same quality, for £10,000 and in 6 weeks.
Would you go with the builders you know if the extension was going to be the same, and worse still, would you like it if someone insisted you use them, despite the extra cost to you?
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Hi Betty,
Hope you had a good day, I must admit I hate them with a passion...bit of a night owl! Thanks for your reasoned point of view, which I know you have been throughout. As I worked as a temp for three years on WW I know their allowances inside out as I used to earn them and you are indeed right, the ludicrous, over inflated wages quoted by some are not . true for the majority of the crew. However I am in exactly the same personal situation as you without the ex to help and to be honest I'm holding on with the skin of my teeth hoping for a glimmer of hope!
An example to compare would be the recent LHR-HKG-NRT-HKG-LHR, over 4 days...MF did not get a quarter of the WW allowance for their normal LHR-HKG-LHR with 38 hours duty time for the whole trip, followed by 2 days off.....
Take home is 760 basix after tax/pension....realisation soon slips in after 6 months!!!
If only I had joined Ba a few years earlier...but hey ho thats the contract I signed as I couldn't stay a temp anymore!!!Wouldn't have mind though
Hope you had a good day, I must admit I hate them with a passion...bit of a night owl! Thanks for your reasoned point of view, which I know you have been throughout. As I worked as a temp for three years on WW I know their allowances inside out as I used to earn them and you are indeed right, the ludicrous, over inflated wages quoted by some are not . true for the majority of the crew. However I am in exactly the same personal situation as you without the ex to help and to be honest I'm holding on with the skin of my teeth hoping for a glimmer of hope!
An example to compare would be the recent LHR-HKG-NRT-HKG-LHR, over 4 days...MF did not get a quarter of the WW allowance for their normal LHR-HKG-LHR with 38 hours duty time for the whole trip, followed by 2 days off.....
Take home is 760 basix after tax/pension....realisation soon slips in after 6 months!!!If only I had joined Ba a few years earlier...but hey ho thats the contract I signed as I couldn't stay a temp anymore!!!
Wouldn't have mind though
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Sorry fruitbat but you are saying exactly the same as certain union reps. It is rubbish. We as a division had to find our cost saving of £127 million. We achieved it in part by introducing new salaries for crew and managers. This is not about cutting existing crews salaries. It is about cutting the wage bill in the long term. We have offered our crew a 'TOP UP' as a guarantee on earnings and set the variable levels already for year one. We do not expect to pay out anyone as the crew will still be earning over the average. Destination payments etc will and are being redistributed to existing crew on the original fleets. The real impact is in actual fact variety of routes. WW will still be earning their rates of pay but will be going to fewer destinations. This is what we have put in place. I really think you need to speak to one of your ground managers to give you actual insight.
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GofE,
It's just not fair on you all and I really feel for you.
The whole situation really is horrid. There you are, worrying about how much you will earn; and there we all are, worrying about the effect your low wages may have on us in the future.
I know I am lucky to be in the latter position but of course many of us have commitments based on our current salary and I think that is why we are so worried.
There are some, obvious, cabin crew haters who would like us all to be on a low salary and seem to feel that people like us only deserve a low wage but these people are best ignored by us all!!
As I said before, good luck and I do really believe that these levels of pay are unsustainable, just hang on in there and I hope it gets improved for you all soon. I am hopeful also that there is an end to all this IA soon and we can all get back to what we do best.
Take care x
It's just not fair on you all and I really feel for you.
The whole situation really is horrid. There you are, worrying about how much you will earn; and there we all are, worrying about the effect your low wages may have on us in the future.
I know I am lucky to be in the latter position but of course many of us have commitments based on our current salary and I think that is why we are so worried.
There are some, obvious, cabin crew haters who would like us all to be on a low salary and seem to feel that people like us only deserve a low wage but these people are best ignored by us all!!
As I said before, good luck and I do really believe that these levels of pay are unsustainable, just hang on in there and I hope it gets improved for you all soon. I am hopeful also that there is an end to all this IA soon and we can all get back to what we do best.
Take care x
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Hi again, just wanted to add, I totally understand where the existing crew are coming from...if you buy a house based on your wages and have a mortgage you don't expect to be in a position where you are unable to pay it whilst still doing the same job for the same employer. I would be worried about the future too. I do not underestimate the effect that this is having on you all......
My views about mf are purely about mf, but I still feel for the other fleets....how could I not, Iv been there, done that and earned it too!!! Its devastating to think that it could be taken away....but in my instance there was only one offer on the table which was take it or leave it!!!
I have everything crossed that I am able to cross in the hope that it will get better soon!! OOOOhh there's a pig with wingsxxx
Take care
GOEx
My views about mf are purely about mf, but I still feel for the other fleets....how could I not, Iv been there, done that and earned it too!!! Its devastating to think that it could be taken away....but in my instance there was only one offer on the table which was take it or leave it!!!
I have everything crossed that I am able to cross in the hope that it will get better soon!! OOOOhh there's a pig with wingsxxx
Take care
GOEx
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Sorry Betty Girl but I can't believe it's taken you this long to realise the Co. have lied to you & secondly if you were a member of Bassa perhaps you could of influenced things from within. Without a union you are on your own to deal with the Co. lies.
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@Bettygirl
I have been training this week and listening to a manager address the class. The numbers on Mixed Fleet will be just under half that of Eurofleet (1400) by the beginning of 2012 and then recruitment is expected to slow considerably. The further growth relied on the uptake of part-time by the existing fleets and IFCE have been disappointed to find that less than 40% of those on the lists have accepted part-time due to ongoing concerns about the future stability of our pay. Thereafter, any recruitment will rely on retirement (which no-one has to take until they are about 100 now) and on people leaving (which also tends to be quite low among EF and WW crew). In short, while the transfer of work seems to be quite rapid at the moment, when the recruitment stops, so will the work transfer.
He also said that the mixed fleet turnover is around 3% among the main crew which is 2% lower than projected and 0% among CSM's and FTC so BA are quite happy with that for now. If they were leaving in droves there would be a greater chance of the pay being re-assessed!
I know you are still feeling sore about the hat but remember, when this uniform was designed we were all sent a questionnnaire about what we wanted and we pretty much all said we were sick of wearing a hat and only wanted to wear one for special occasions. I'm sure you wouldn't want to swap your coat and cardi for one either. Tell your manager that you would like to wear one and see if they can get you on a Cruise charter or VIP flight. Also think of applying to the promotions team and then you can wear one all through the Olympics. (We need a smiley with a hat!)
Above all, don't let it get you down. I rely on your posts to cheer me up when I've had a bad day at work! After 24 years at BA there is one thing I am certain of, if you don't like the way things are at the moment....stick around because it will all change again and again and again, mostly back to where you started!
I have been training this week and listening to a manager address the class. The numbers on Mixed Fleet will be just under half that of Eurofleet (1400) by the beginning of 2012 and then recruitment is expected to slow considerably. The further growth relied on the uptake of part-time by the existing fleets and IFCE have been disappointed to find that less than 40% of those on the lists have accepted part-time due to ongoing concerns about the future stability of our pay. Thereafter, any recruitment will rely on retirement (which no-one has to take until they are about 100 now) and on people leaving (which also tends to be quite low among EF and WW crew). In short, while the transfer of work seems to be quite rapid at the moment, when the recruitment stops, so will the work transfer.
He also said that the mixed fleet turnover is around 3% among the main crew which is 2% lower than projected and 0% among CSM's and FTC so BA are quite happy with that for now. If they were leaving in droves there would be a greater chance of the pay being re-assessed!
I know you are still feeling sore about the hat but remember, when this uniform was designed we were all sent a questionnnaire about what we wanted and we pretty much all said we were sick of wearing a hat and only wanted to wear one for special occasions. I'm sure you wouldn't want to swap your coat and cardi for one either. Tell your manager that you would like to wear one and see if they can get you on a Cruise charter or VIP flight. Also think of applying to the promotions team and then you can wear one all through the Olympics.
(We need a smiley with a hat!)Above all, don't let it get you down. I rely on your posts to cheer me up when I've had a bad day at work! After 24 years at BA there is one thing I am certain of, if you don't like the way things are at the moment....stick around because it will all change again and again and again, mostly back to where you started!
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A13,
Bassa have caused this mess and BA have just reacted badly to having to deal with a dysfunctional union.
I do worry about the future but the 'Way Forward proposal' that Bassa put forward was truly awful particularly for E/F crew, which incidentally incorporated Mixed Fleet anyway, and in actual fact, what BA has come up with was preferable to that and that's saying something!!
Bassa have got no idea how to negotiate and always threaten to strike!
If Bassa had not rushed to strike over crewing levels and had negotiated some sensible savings, there would be no M/F.
M/F was always meant to be a threat of what could happen if Bassa did not cooperate over sensible savings! Guess what! Bassa called a strike and made M/F a reality. BA must be laughing because you and your union have basically given them a golden egg by calling crew out in a silly, rush to ruin Christmas strike, 18 months ago.
So no, I am happier without Bassa, thanks all the same.
Bassa have caused this mess and BA have just reacted badly to having to deal with a dysfunctional union.
I do worry about the future but the 'Way Forward proposal' that Bassa put forward was truly awful particularly for E/F crew, which incidentally incorporated Mixed Fleet anyway, and in actual fact, what BA has come up with was preferable to that and that's saying something!!
Bassa have got no idea how to negotiate and always threaten to strike!
If Bassa had not rushed to strike over crewing levels and had negotiated some sensible savings, there would be no M/F.
M/F was always meant to be a threat of what could happen if Bassa did not cooperate over sensible savings! Guess what! Bassa called a strike and made M/F a reality. BA must be laughing because you and your union have basically given them a golden egg by calling crew out in a silly, rush to ruin Christmas strike, 18 months ago.
So no, I am happier without Bassa, thanks all the same.
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There has been some concern about the transfer of routes to MF, particularly on WW. It should be borne in mind that BA are limited in the routes they can transfer to MF. Existing crew would love to see MF saddled with all the junk routes with low allowances and no box payments, but thats hardly fair on their fellow employees for a start! BA cannot transfer any routes to MF that use ICC, so that rules out India, the Middle East, the Far East (bar HND which has no ICCs). BA also only wish to transfer (I'm told) routes which have only a single service per day, to avoid problems with legacy crew turning on the MF crew in the hotel. So whats left? Not much bar the long haul routes they've got! A better example of route transfer exists in EF where MF have a mix of routes, some good , some bad, but there has been no wholesale switch of high allowance routes, only a fair switch. That, for me, suggests BA are being genuine in their efforts to distribute work fairly. On a final note, there has been grumbling that MF are getting all the new routes. These are growth routes, and they may very well be routes where legacy crew costs would make the route unprofitable. If MF are flying growth routes it gives BA scope to expand and ultimately reduces the likelihood of legacy crew losing all their lucrative trips!
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Thanks for your reassuring post Ottergirl.
That is what I had heard but people keep on mentioning different figures. I think they need to be seen to be doing what they said they would do and that is only to transfer work as we shrink and not before and then I hope it will be OK.
I don't remember being asked about the hat with this uniform but I do remember that we stopped wearing it with the last one and that really was an uncomfortable thing.
I don't really want to wear the hat because I love the hat, it is more that I think we should all look the same and making some look different is divisive for all. It should either be all with the hat or all without the hat.
It is, more, also about how it affects me inside, I feel like I am an unwanted old raincoat that you keep in the wardrobe in case it's rainy but you never actually want to wear it anymore!
Anyway, as I said before, it really is just an emotion and pales into insignificance compared to everything else that is going on.
That is what I had heard but people keep on mentioning different figures. I think they need to be seen to be doing what they said they would do and that is only to transfer work as we shrink and not before and then I hope it will be OK.
I don't remember being asked about the hat with this uniform but I do remember that we stopped wearing it with the last one and that really was an uncomfortable thing.
I don't really want to wear the hat because I love the hat, it is more that I think we should all look the same and making some look different is divisive for all. It should either be all with the hat or all without the hat.
It is, more, also about how it affects me inside, I feel like I am an unwanted old raincoat that you keep in the wardrobe in case it's rainy but you never actually want to wear it anymore!
Anyway, as I said before, it really is just an emotion and pales into insignificance compared to everything else that is going on.
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I very much doubt that M/F are not getting routes that have more than a single service because the WW crew will turn on them. What a horrid assumption!
Maybe it is just due to the fact that WW crew need two nights at some of these destinations, as do the pilots but that M/F don't and that would add to confusion for the ground staff, having two sets of crew operating with different slip patterns. It may well be confusing for scheduling also.
I heard that M/F crew and WW crew got on fine in Hong Kong in the bar recently and a M/F CSM posted how helpful the NRT crew were to his positioning HND crew on their way to Tokyo, explaining the service to them all.
Trouble is with forums is that sometimes people guess why thing are but get it wrong.
Maybe it is just due to the fact that WW crew need two nights at some of these destinations, as do the pilots but that M/F don't and that would add to confusion for the ground staff, having two sets of crew operating with different slip patterns. It may well be confusing for scheduling also.
I heard that M/F crew and WW crew got on fine in Hong Kong in the bar recently and a M/F CSM posted how helpful the NRT crew were to his positioning HND crew on their way to Tokyo, explaining the service to them all.
Trouble is with forums is that sometimes people guess why thing are but get it wrong.